Mini 969 - Smalltown: Stardust Mafia (Game Over)

[ReaperCharlie]

Fine, maybe I'm reading too much into everything, and posting long posts analyzing everything is just my way of combating being clueless and knowing nothing. It helps me to think out loud. But since you guys hate that, here, maybe this is easier.

Good list:

peanutman

Semi-good list:

Jack
Faraday

Neutral list:

Starbuck
Mr. Bean
CallMeLiam

Don't trust list:

Zang
Kdub
MagnaofIllusion

Lynch list:

charter
totallynotmafia

Yes, I don't trust people very easily. Especially since I have no reason to and everyone is jumping on everyone else's back.

Read my posts though. They'll clear up a lot of stuff for you. I put effort into them for a reason.


@ Starbuck. Marine Corps E-3. What's AE?

[ooba]

..] Vote Count [..

Faraday (0)

Kdub (1)

- CallMeLiam

MagnaOfIllusion (2)

- Jack, Kdub

Mr. Bean (0)

ReaperCharlie (1)

- totallynotmafia

Starbuck (0)

totallynotmafia (2)

- Mr. Bean, ReaperCharlie

Zang (4)

- charter, Faraday, peanutman, Starbuck

Jack (0)

charter (0)

CallMeLiam (0)

peanutman (1)

- MagnaOfIllusion

Not voting (1)

- Zang

With 12 alive, 7 to lynch!

[MagnaofIllusion]

I don't know if you're doing this on purpose, or if I am really writing things in a hard-to-understand manner.

If you do it again though, I am switching my vote to you because you are obviously trying to twist the words I am saying to mean something else, to mean whatever fits what you want others to believe. Doing that often means someone has a hidden agenda.

So you can’t be sure whether you aren’t writing clearly or if Kdub is purposely twisting your words. But you will switch your vote to him if he does it again. And that thing, which you are indicating is scummy, could just be your inability to write in a clear manner.

My reasoning for FoSing Zang: Now that I look back at it, I wasn't really that suspicious of him. I'm still not. What I was suspicious of, was all the attention he was getting. That's the reason I put down 3 FoS's in a row, because out of all the people arguing/being argued about at that moment, those were the three that I was most suspicious of.

You were not suspicious of Zang but of the attention he was getting. So you threw down 3 FoS in a row at the people you were most suspicious of. These FoSs were –

]In conclusion:

FoS: MagnaofIllusion
FoS: totallynotmafia
FoS: Zang

So you were and weren’t suspicious of Zang at the same time? You FOSed Zang to show suspicion on other players? What are you trying to say?

BTW, I haven't forgotten about Magna. He has yet to come up with a satisfactory explanation for the Septimus thing. If he is claiming that his knowledge of the source material is what made him refer to the SK as "Lord Septimus", I have to disagree. My memory (and others should point out if I am wrong here) is that he was simply referred to as "Septimus" most of the time in both the book and the movie. The role PM that he supposedly checked also said "Septimus".

I’ve given you the answer you are going to get – the truth. If you don’t like it and find it suspicious that’s fine but don’t think I’m going to provide you with a different answer just to appease you. Please address the following for me –

1. Is not directly remembering the mechanics of a role I had no interest in personally as it applied specifically to another role scummy?
2. Please indicate why remembering he is called Lord Septimus is scummy. You acknowledge he is referred to in this way in both source materials, even if it is not the majority of the time.

His deflection and air of overdefensiveness just doesn't sit well reading his 1v1 with Jack.

If turning the tables on someone who attacks me for frivolous and patently incorrect reasons is seen as defensive so be it. Post 110 pretty much clearly shows why I think Jack’s reasoning is absurd.

@Jack - While you are at it mind answering the following question –

Yes, I'm sure you really had to check another window to make sure of that...

I remembered it from reading over the opening posts a couple times while thinking about what I wanted to pick/how the system works.

Sounds like you are afraid of someone saying you are overly acquainted with the SK role pm.

You specifically say (again emphasis added) that you remembered it from reading over the opening posts a couple of times so I shouldn’t have had to look it up.

What did you remember? Again, if you remembered Lord Sept couldn’t be tracked why didn’t you mention it directly in 93 in response to Kdub’s post? If that’s not it what an earth in my post could you have remembered from reading the roles?

[Jack]

It's possible that magna is town and simply jumps on the rhetoric-train for no good reason.

@magna: it was inconsequential to whether the tracker should be motivated

[CallMeLiam]

unvote

Don't need a random vote any more.

RC, I really don't find listing who you think is pro-town to be very helpful at all, as this just gives scum bulls eyes for people to take out. Please stop. Your huge posts ultimately contain very little information outside of this and some very weak cases on people and the white noise you've been generating so far isn't helping the town.

[Zang]

Calling something town vs town is generally something I think is bad, unless you've got really good reads on the players. here Zang calls it that, and doesn't really provide any reason why. I think I expressed my willingness to vote him shortly after here.

Why Is calling something town vs town scummy?

He thinks it's town versus town because...the argument is weak. Okay, he can gets Jack town from this, I don't agree but I guess it's not beyond reasonable. 
He thinks Magna is town..why? Because there's a weak case being pushed against him. yer, not buying it at all. If Jack is town pushing a weak case why does it automatically have to be on town, and not scum? Why do you think Magna is town?

Once again, I never said either jack or magna is town. I just don't think they are scum/SK/whatever because of the arguments currently against them.

First of all, how does magna become town because there's a weak case on him?

Do you read? I already said this about 2 hours before your post-

2.I never said I rulled them out. I just don't think they are scummy because of what they are being accused of.

Second of all, could you please explain how you've concluded that Jack is "more of a misguided townie than a scumbag"? Basically, what specifically makes him misguided

I think he is misguided because I believe that he actually thinks that magna is a SK but I think he is rushing to conclusions.


I think I got everything directed speciffically at me. In my next post I'll explain what I think about RC and other recent events.

[ReaperCharlie]

RC, I really don't find listing who you think is pro-town to be very helpful at all, as this just gives scum bulls eyes for people to take out. Please stop.

Wait. Wait. You're saying that I shouldn't be listing who I think is town? You don't think forming a central core of pro-town individuals who we can 'trust' in and/or rally around is useful? Why not? Because scum are already gonna kill who they think is the most pro-town. At least polarizing those who are able to be polarized into 'good' or 'bad' categories gives us something to go off.

Besides, if I keep my opinions to myself, how can anyone know what I am thinking? Isn't the point of discussion to DISCUSS things?

Btw, who are your top 3 picks for town and scum at this point?

Your huge posts ultimately contain very little information outside of this and some very weak cases on people and the white noise you've been generating so far isn't helping the town.

You're saying analysis is not pro-town?

I understand that my posts probably shouldn't be

so

gargantuan, but... sheesh. Looks like everyone else is just walking around and saying "This is scummy, that's scummy, ... that one's REALLY scummy..." like they're in a grocery store or something.

It's just the way I play. I overanalyze. It's my blessing, it's my curse

[charter]

I didn't read 169. I don't read posts that gigantic and the tl;dr was unhelpful.

I don't like how RC is saying how anyone who doesn't agree with Peanutman is obvscum. RC is throwing accusations around like crazy looking for what will stick, is the impression I get from him. He's trying to find out who he can string up, not find scum.

Anyhow, Zang's recent backtracking I find to be a virtual confession of scum. Here's what he initially said.

I think this Jack and magna thing is Town vs Town.

then there's

Once again, I never said either jack or magna is town. I just don't think they are scum/SK/whatever because of the arguments currently against them.

That looks like a backtrack to me once a few people question him on his town v town comment. The second sentence is just weak, as well. Arguments leveled against someone isn't a reason to clear them.

My other scumspects are Jack and RC. Jack pushed that crap case on Magna, and hasn't said barely a word about Magna for a while, despite still voting him. Now he looks like he's just scooting by. Jack also doesn't think Zang is scummy, and I don't see how anyone can not find Zang scummy. RC for reasons previously mentioned.

[charter]

Liam, who are you most suspicious of? Why?

[ReaperCharlie]

So you can’t be sure whether you aren’t writing clearly or if Kdub is purposely twisting your words. But you will switch your vote to him if he does it again. And that thing, which you are indicating is scummy, could just be your inability to write in a clear manner.

I hate it when people misrepresent the spirit of what I am trying to say, and pick apart the technical manner I use to say it in order to try to paint me a color that I'm not. If in my often-overanalytical huff I speak in a confusing manner, hey, I'll admit to that. It happens more than I'd like to admit. But that's now how I saw it in that case.

You were not suspicious of Zang but of the attention he was getting. So you threw down 3 FoS in a row at the people you were most suspicious of. These FoSs were –

FoS: MagnaofIllusion
FoS: totallynotmafia
FoS: Zang

So you were and weren’t suspicious of Zang at the same time?

No.

You FOSed Zang to show suspicion on other players?

No.

What are you trying to say?

Broken down into layman's terms: "Oooohh, look! People are arguing. Let's blow this thing wide open and get some good discussion going! Go go gadget MASS-FoS!" *sproing*

[ReaperCharlie]

RC is throwing accusations around like crazy looking for what will stick, is the impression I get from him. He's trying to find out who he can string up, not find scum.

Not really. I don't believe I'm voting for anyone at the moment. Just stirring the pot.

Like I said in my above post, stimulation of discussion on day 1 is essential, otherwise scum skates by, either by posting little to nothing, or by flat out lurking entirely. In my experience, day 1 play is a lot more important than a lot of people like to think on this site.

I was on another site before this one where they'd let most day 1's pass with a no-lynch, because the popular opinion was that you couldn't learn anything on day 1 anyways because 'nobody had been killed yet'. WTF? It made no sense. That's when PR's get killed, or the townies who might actually do scumhunting get killed before the chance to do scumhunting.

If you think my means of stimulating discussion isn't the most pro-town, that's fine. It's the way I do things. Volatile behavior often works. Your mind may eventually change about liking how I do things, but I'm not counting on it. Either way, I'm not worried about whether you like my particular brand of scumhunting. It works for me, and that's what counts.

I don't like how RC is saying how anyone who doesn't agree with Peanutman is obvscum.

Do you not agree that he is the most pro-town player at this point?

[Zang]

I didn't read 169. I don't read posts that gigantic and the tl;dr was unhelpful.

I don't like how RC is saying how anyone who doesn't agree with Peanutman is obvscum. RC is throwing accusations around like crazy looking for what will stick, is the impression I get from him. He's trying to find out who he can string up, not find scum.

Anyhow, Zang's recent backtracking I find to be a virtual confession of scum. Here's what he initially said.

I think this Jack and magna thing is Town vs Town.

then there's

Once again, I never said either jack or magna is town. I just don't think they are scum/SK/whatever because of the arguments currently against them.

That looks like a backtrack to me once a few people question him on his town v town comment. The second sentence is just weak, as well. Arguments leveled against someone isn't a reason to clear them.

My other scumspects are Jack and RC. Jack pushed that crap case on Magna, and hasn't said barely a word about Magna for a while, despite still voting him. Now he looks like he's just scooting by. Jack also doesn't think Zang is scummy, and I don't see how anyone can not find Zang scummy. RC for reasons previously mentioned.

I see what you mean but what else would you rather me call it "not scum vs not scum". And it's just a term, town vs town ussualy applies to when two people are fighting about something that makes neither of them scummy.

[Jack]

Yes. I very much buy that that is how Zang was using the term town vs town.

[totallynotmafia]

I voted you for three reasons that I found you scummy which I clearly stated (

your weak reason for fosing me

,

you fosing Zang without a reason

,

you complaining about activity levels while not actually contributing yourself

), so how is that voting for you just because I disagree with you?

The

italicized

and

bolded

are answered above. The

struck out

text is no longer a reason. Plus, I was V/LA. Sue me, I'm in the military, it's required that I be gone sometimes. Haha

The V/LA bit would be fine normally, it's the fact that you came back and complained about activity levels without actually having contributed yourself. To me it seems like a way of trying to look town and I've seen it been done by scum before.

As I said your reason for voting me was terrible, here's the original reason:

While I agree with this post, and the vote contained in it, something in this post also strikes me as 'off'. In this post, TNM sounds like he is looking for extra reasons -- that is, in addition to what Jack noticed -- to go after MoI. This seems to me like a Mafia member hoping that someone has found out the SK first day, and that his scumteam won't have to spend the whole game trying to find him, and now he's trying to give as many reasons as possible so that everyone will want to lynch him

I still don't understand why looking for extra reasons why someone is scummy is scummy. Isn't that the whole point of this game, to try and pick up on scummy behaviour? To me it looked like you were trying too hard to paint people as scum.

Then you fosed Zang right after you you defended him.

Now to me, when you fos three people like that after poor reasoning, you're trying to look like you're actually scum-hunting and perhaps even (very weakly) distancing yourself from a fellow scum-buddy.

You're trying to brush off my reasoning by saying it's just an OMGUS...please explain why just because you fosed me before I voted you how that makes me scummy? I'm interested to know, especially because you pretty much did the same thing on me afterwards. Your whole post is hypocritical, you accuse me of trying to start a bandwagon on someone yet you are quite clearly appealing to others to bandwagon me.

Ok, watch: You were quite happy with following the crowd on MagnaofIllusion, and then as soon as soon as I put an FoS on you, you found THREE 'reasons' to switch your vote to me. Crappy reasons, but w/e. So it WAS an OMGUS vote, among other things (yes, I acknowledge that your point of me mostly fluffing up until then was pretty true. It was RVS and I was V/LA). In order to get you talking instead of just inserting sideways jabs at others without any commitment to an argument yourself, I whacked you on the head with a foam mallet to wake you up.

Also, I still think what you did is scummy (what I indicated in my post where I originally FoS'd you).

You crying OMGUS just solidified your scumminess to me, as it's just another poor reason to try and paint me as scummy.

Also, the constant threatening to vote people just makes you look even more scummy.

Really? Why?

Because why would town feel the need to threaten others with their vote if they act a certain way? If people do something you think is scummy you vote for them, you don't let scum know what those things are otherwise they'll know not to do them. By threatening people I think you're trying to scare people off of suspecting/voting for you.

This clutching at straws seems like you're trying your hardest to paint people scummy,

You don’t see determining that I am Lord Sept. simply based on a line you find “strange” as grasping at straws?

You still haven't answered this.

Magna, the main reason for suspecting you is because you pointed out in your post that you were going back to look whether the SK could be tracked, which as Jack said looked as if you were trying to make it look as if you weren' familiar with the SK role. I added that I thought it was strange that you knew the name of the SK, as I for one didn't even remember the SK had a name as I hadn't read the rules since before the drafting began. I assumed you hadn't just reread the rules either as you had to go back and check if the SK could be tracked.

---

RC, what exactly are these "extra reasons" you're seeing that TNM gave for voting Magna? I don't see anything.

Read 143 again, where I quote 106. This part in particular:

even stranger that you actually knew what the SKs name was without having to check that.

This isn't strange at all. I bought the movie just to re-acquaint myself with the characters, why is it strange to think he might have done the same (or had seen it more recently than I had?) And besides, even before re-watching the movie, the only ones I recalled were Captain Shakespeare (because of the 'captain' in his name) and Lord Septimus (because of the 'Septimus' in his name, meaning he was the seventh brother out of Primus, Secondus, Tertius, Quadrius, Quintus, Sextus, and Septimus). It's not a stretch at all to believe that he remembered that even without watching the movie again (because I did), and it's even easier to believe it if he DID watch the movie again, (like I did). Maybe this only strikes

me

as odd, but I hardly think all this discussion is necessary for an FoS which I've already explained was only part of a blanket suspicion statement.

Anyway, that is the 'extra' reason I found that TNM was trying to give to vote Magna, and THAT'S why I thought (and still think) he's probably scum.

So why didn't you say that when you originally FOSed me? And that's fair enough that Magna may have just watched the movie and that's why he knew Lord Septimus was the SK (I haven't seen the movie for ages so I don't know how obvious it is that Lord Septimus is the SK), but that's something he can defend himself, it's not like he's going to be lynched without getting the chance to defend himself.

Did anyone else notice in his reply to what I said that totallynotmafia

COMPLETELY IGNORED

my request to provide decent reasoning for his vote on Zang? He totally skipped that -- and went straight to more OMGUS against me.

Which is

exactly

why my vote is staying on him.

Are you talking about Zang or Magna? Appealling to others by saying stuff like "Did anyone else notice...?" just makes me think you're trying your hardest to get others to jump on my wagon (as if that wasn't already obvious).

At this point I would be extremely surprised if you're not scum. If somehow you are town, your scum-hunting in this game has been atrocious. First you don't attempt any at all until you are pulled up on it, then you FOS people for poor reasons or no reason at all, and then you kick up a stink when someone votes you for doing this. Your attacks on me so far have been akin to a third grader in the playground: "You're scum because you voted me after I FOSed you first! OMG you didn't answer one of my questions!" Not to mention your list of who's been naughty and who's been nice.

[ReaperCharlie]

Ok, now I'm getting some town vibes, strangely... Not enough to take my vote off, but this apparent town-rage has me wondering. I haven't played with you enough to figure out whether you omgus a lot or not, but I'll meta you and get back to you on it though. Any previous games of note that you can point me to? I see you don't have a wiki.

was V/LA. Sue me, I'm in the military, it's required that I be gone sometimes. Haha

The V/LA bit would be fine normally, it's the fact that you came back and complained about activity levels without actually having contributed yourself. To me it seems like a way of trying to look town and I've seen it been done by scum before.

Who hasn't seen that? That's scum 101.

But, have I not been contributing thus far? I was tired when I got back from a tough few days of doing reel man stuffz! That is not quote-wall time, that is sleep time, savvy?

Btw, I notice you haven't been jumping on Starbuck for doing the exact same thing as I did. Tunnel vision, much?

I still don't understand why looking for extra reasons why someone is scummy is scummy. Isn't that the whole point of this game, to try and pick up on scummy behaviour?

To me it looked like you were trying too hard to paint people as scum.

That's what it looked to me like YOU were doing. That pung my scumdar and I called you on it. You becoming Mr. Super-Defensive about it is still making me wonder, but your town-rage is helping somewhat. Keep it up.

Then you fosed Zang right after you you defended him.

Now to me, when you fos three people like that after poor reasoning, you're trying to look like you're actually scum-hunting and perhaps even (very weakly) distancing yourself from a fellow scum-buddy.

Read my posts, that might help. I've explained this twice or three times, not gonna do it again just because you didn't read it the first few times.

You were quite happy with following the crowd on MagnaofIllusion, and then as soon as soon as I put an FoS on you, you found THREE 'reasons' to switch your vote to me. Crappy reasons, but w/e. So it WAS an OMGUS vote, among other things (yes, I acknowledge that your point of me mostly fluffing up until then was pretty true. It was RVS and I was V/LA). In order to get you talking instead of just inserting sideways jabs at others without any commitment to an argument yourself, I whacked you on the head with a foam mallet to wake you up.

Also, I still think what you did is scummy (what I indicated in my post where I originally FoS'd you).

You crying OMGUS just solidified your scumminess to me, as it's just another poor reason to try and paint me as scummy.

Why did that solidify anything? You're still doing the same thing. You're tunneling on me, quite obviously. You have barely addressed anyone else's points or talked about anyone else ever since I FoS'd you.

Also, the constant threatening to vote people just makes you look even more scummy.

Really? Why?

Because why would town feel the need to threaten others with their vote if they act a certain way? If people do something you think is scummy you vote for them, you don't let scum know what those things are otherwise they'll know not to do them. By threatening people I think you're trying to scare people off of suspecting/voting for you.

Wait! Stop the train. This is a good point. That would make sense...

...except for that I was more worried about you at the moment, so my vote was still on you.

This clutching at straws seems like you're trying your hardest to paint people scummy,

You don’t see determining that I am Lord Sept. simply based on a line you find “strange” as grasping at straws?

You still haven't answered this.

Magna, the main reason for suspecting you is because you pointed out in your post that you were going back to look whether the SK could be tracked, which as Jack said looked as if you were trying to make it look as if you weren' familiar with the SK role. I added that I thought it was strange that you knew the name of the SK, as I for one didn't even remember the SK had a name as I hadn't read the rules since before the drafting began. I assumed you hadn't just reread the rules either as you had to go back and check if the SK could be tracked.

I think this is the first time since you started omgustunneling on me that you addressed someone else's questions of you. Though I must say I'm disappointed that the only reason you addressed it is because I specifically had to notice it for you and ask you to respond to it.

RC, what exactly are these "extra reasons" you're seeing that TNM gave for voting Magna? I don't see anything.

Read 143 again, where I quote 106. This part in particular:

even stranger that you actually knew what the SKs name was without having to check that.

This isn't strange at all. I bought the movie just to re-acquaint myself with the characters, why is it strange to think he might have done the same (or had seen it more recently than I had?) And besides, even before re-watching the movie, the only ones I recalled were Captain Shakespeare (because of the 'captain' in his name) and Lord Septimus (because of the 'Septimus' in his name, meaning he was the seventh brother out of Primus, Secondus, Tertius, Quadrius, Quintus, Sextus, and Septimus). It's not a stretch at all to believe that he remembered that even without watching the movie again (because I did), and it's even easier to believe it if he DID watch the movie again, (like I did). Maybe this only strikes

me

as odd, but I hardly think all this discussion is necessary for an FoS which I've already explained was only part of a blanket suspicion statement.

Anyway, that is the 'extra' reason I found that TNM was trying to give to vote Magna, and THAT'S why I thought (and still think) he's probably scum.

So why didn't you say that when you originally FOSed me? And that's fair enough that Magna may have just watched the movie and that's why he knew Lord Septimus was the SK (I haven't seen the movie for ages so I don't know how obvious it is that Lord Septimus is the SK), but that's something he can defend himself, it's not like he's going to be lynched without getting the chance to defend himself.

Maybe I

should

have said it at the beginning. But it was a pretty long explanation for what seemed like a very little observation. After all, it was only a hunch. But even if I would have said all of that earlier, would you have listened?

Did anyone else notice in his reply to what I said that totallynotmafia

COMPLETELY IGNORED

my request to provide decent reasoning for his vote on Zang? He totally skipped that -- and went straight to more OMGUS against me.

Are you talking about Zang or Magna? Appealling to others by saying stuff like "Did anyone else notice...?" just makes me think you're trying your hardest to get others to jump on my wagon (as if that wasn't already obvious).

At this point I would be extremely surprised if you're not scum.

TunnelOMGUSers always think that. Until they take the blinders off and begin to look around. Here: https://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?ti ... nel_vision

If somehow you are town, your scum-hunting in this game has been atrocious.

I'm getting reactions and starting discussions. Remind me again how that is bad?

Your attacks on me so far have been akin to a third grader in the playground: "You're scum because you voted me after I FOSed you first! OMG you didn't answer one of my questions!"

Um... ad hominem? may I ask why you think that's even necessary?

You sure are getting antsy over a single vote on you, TNM. Any reason why?

Not to mention your list of who's been naughty and who's been nice.

You don't think my list is good?

[ReaperCharlie]

Promise to all Stardust Mafia'ers: Last wall for a while

@ charter 182: Interesting. I agree that it seems like a backtrack.

@ Zang 186: The definition of 'town vs town' isn't exactly up for negotiation. But if it means something else to you, why didn't you say so before? And most importantly: are you agreeing that you were backtracking?

@ Jack 187: Sarcasm? Please explain.

@ whoever still hasn't read my posts (all of them): They're useful. I promise.

@ whoever isn't being active: Be active!

[Jack]

Not sarcasm. That was what I was thinking he meant before he said that was what he meant.

People are very often confused by definitions. I would argue that you are misusing "backtracking" in your accusation of Zang, based on his misuse of "town vs town".

[Faraday]

@Jack, could you explain the timeline of posts 129 and 130. I have a reason that I will explain later. However, did you post 129 (the vote), get the call and then post 130? Or were you writing 129, got a call, posted just the vote, and then made an addition V/LA post? Or did it happen some other way? Please explain. Also, please answer this:

Did you not think his (my "who to motivate") post was helpful?

.

Um I think this is talking about me? I don't really remember. If 129 is my vote for Zang, then yes that was purposely done without explanation. 130 my v/la then followed (you can check my other games to see that I was v/la if you want, I posted around the same time). I had more to say too, but was short for time at that point.

As for your motivate post helpful but not scumhunting at the same time. No real problem with it as long as you're going to get more involved in non theory discussion.

[Faraday]

I don't care. He did something I consider to be scummy, and if he wants to up the anty to voting instead of FoSing, I'm all for it. This fight may be town-vs-town as well (if indeed the other one was too), but I don't care about that either, as long as nobody gets mislynched for it.

I'm saying he wasn't OMGUSing you. If you;'re going to go and say this is why you did a certain thing why isn't it reasonable tnm felt the same way about you?

My reasoning for FoSing Zang: Now that I look back at it, I wasn't really that suspicious of him. I'm still not. What I was suspicious of, was all the attention he was getting. That's the reason I put down 3 FoS's in a row, because out of all the people arguing/being argued about at that moment, those were the three that I was most suspicious of. Comprende?

Not at all. You weren't suspicius...but you kinda were? idk this makes no sense to me at all.

His deflection and air of overdefensiveness just doesn't sit well reading his 1v1 with Jack.

Deflection...like? Also overdefensiveness is far from a scumtell. Nulllll.You mentioned it again re: Charlie. Also don't find his threats subtle, well or even threats. Why do you think it's notable? Surely if he feels he is being misrepped he's entitled to well...make sure it doesn't happen.

Meh I'd like more from Starbuck/Mr.Bean and CallmeLiam atm.

[Faraday]

unvote

Don't need a random vote any more.

RC, I really don't find listing who you think is pro-town to be very helpful at all, as this just gives scum bulls eyes for people to take out. Please stop. Your huge posts ultimately contain very little information outside of this and some very weak cases on people and the white noise you've been generating so far isn't helping the town.

Well it contained more info than what you've given. Who do you suspect, reasons would be a bonus but aren't neccessary either.

Also the whole giving town reads helps scum argument is bad, unless you think scum are moronic they can easily discern who is thought of as town or not. But this isn't the place for this discussion.

If you didn't mean town vs town zang why didn't you explain that when first questioned on it?

[Kdub]

1. Is not directly remembering the mechanics of a role I had no interest in personally as it applied specifically to another role scummy?
2. Please indicate why remembering he is called Lord Septimus is scummy. You acknowledge he is referred to in this way in both source materials, even if it is not the majority of the time.

1. No, and I have not argued that you are scummy solely because of this.
2. Because when you were supposedly checking the Billy role PM for the tracker-SK info (again, not inherently scummy), you should have seen that the PM said "Septimus" and referred to the SK as such. I mean, if we were playing Star Wars mafia (which I need a replacement for BTW [/shamelessplug]), you wouldn't normally refer to Vader as "Lord Vader" even though he is sometimes called that in the movie, would you?

I just skimmed the last couple of Charlie's walls of text. I'll go back and read them again later to see if there's anything that needs addressing.

[charter]

Like I said in my above post, stimulation of discussion on day 1 is essential, otherwise scum skates by, either by posting little to nothing, or by flat out lurking entirely. In my experience, day 1 play is a lot more important than a lot of people like to think on this site.

Ok, good idea, but your execution of it is terrible. If you want to avoid scum skating by, then ask them questions and flush out their opinions on things, don't accuse everyone of being scum and give bad reasons for it. Like I feel that Liam is pretty lurky, so I asked him who he was suspicious of, not call him scum and dig up some phoney reasoning for it.

I don't like how RC is saying how anyone who doesn't agree with Peanutman is obvscum.

Do you not agree that he is the most pro-town player at this point?

No. The only person I have a town read on is Faraday, and it's fairly minor.

I see what you mean but what else would you rather me call it "not scum vs not scum". And it's just a term, town vs town ussualy applies to when two people are fighting about something that makes neither of them scummy.

This isn't what you said before. This is another story change. If you thought the argument was pointless or null or something, why didn't you say 'I don't think the argument tells about their alignment'? I don't see how you call it town v town if what their arguing about doesn't make them scummy, wouldn't it be null v null?

[MagnaofIllusion]

RC, I really don't find listing who you think is pro-town to be very helpful at all, as this just gives scum bulls eyes for people to take out. Please stop.

Aside from WIFOM involving RC being scum what downside is there to listing Town reads? The Witches know that 8 of 9 players are town already. It’s not like this set-up is closed where you could be highlighting PRs with a Town list.

I hate it when people misrepresent the spirit of what I am trying to say, and pick apart the technical manner I use to say it in order to try to paint me a color that I'm not. If in my often-overanalytical huff I speak in a confusing manner, hey, I'll admit to that. It happens more than I'd like to admit. But that's now how I saw it in that case.

Your writing style not-withstanding pointing out what I perceive as a direct contradiction in your statement isn’t “picking apart the technical manner … in order to paint me a color that I’m not”. And how can I “misrepresent” the spirit of what you are trying to say? If you aren’t writing clearly no-one should be expected to be a mind-reader regarding your statements.

2. Because when you were supposedly checking the Billy role PM for the tracker-SK info (again, not inherently scummy),

you should have seen that the PM said "Septimus" and referred to the SK as such.

I mean, if we were playing Star Wars mafia (which I need a replacement for BTW [/shamelessplug]), you wouldn't normally refer to Vader as "Lord Vader" even though he is sometimes called that in the movie, would you?

No, I would probably refer to him as Darth Vader, which would be the equivalent title for that role in flavor source material. As for the bolded portion you are once again assuming that I’m not familiar enough with flavor that I would have to look up Lord Sept’s name.

Unvote, Vote: ReaperCharlie.

You seem trying quite so hard to say in no uncertain terms that you are doing town a favor by creating discussion. Town needs more direct scum-hunting and less mass FOSing and strangely worded posts. And at this point I sense you are more worked up by TNM's vote on you than vice versa.

[ReaperCharlie]

Your writing style not-withstanding pointing out what I perceive as a direct contradiction in your statement isn’t “picking apart the technical manner … in order to paint me a color that I’m not”. And how can I “misrepresent” the spirit of what you are trying to say? If you aren’t writing clearly no-one should be expected to be a mind-reader regarding your statements.

The only problem was that it was not a direct contradiction at all, and it was only his incorrect interpretation of what I said that caused it to appear to be.

You seem trying quite so hard to say in no uncertain terms that you are doing town a favor by creating discussion.

In a word, yep!
What's your point? Do you disagree?

Town needs more direct scum-hunting and less mass FOSing and strangely worded posts.

You disapprove of my scumhunting style? Oh noes! My feelings are almost hurt!

And at this point I sense you are more worked up by TNM's vote on you than vice versa.

Nah, I wouldn't say so. I know that his vote is only an OMGUS. But along your own line of reasoning, I want him to

actually

scumhunt, too. And do you not agree that tunnel vision is one of the worst dampers on effective scumhunting?


Also, what is your reason for voting me? Because my posts are strangely worded? Or because you were one of the people I FoS'd earlier? Or is it something that makes sense.
WIFOM aside, what motivation (if I was scum) do you think I would have for sticking my neck out to rip people off of a quickwagon on Zang, and being willing to deal with the sh*tstorm that would inevitably follow? Whether or not Zang is scum, if

I

was scum, there is

no

good reason for that action.



Also also, since you don't seem to be against read-lists, who are

your

town and scum reads?

[ooba]

Mr.Bean is being replaced because he did not post for 48 hours and did not pick his prod for another 48 hours.

havingfitz

replaces Mr.Bean effective immediately.

Welcome, fitz!