Mini 975 - Dirty Dirty South Mafia - game over

[SaintKerrigan]

@ Hoopla: The "apathetic whining" you speak of was a combined result of sleep deprivation, school-related stress, and frustration with [REDACTED - ONGOING GAME], for which I apologize. You won't see it happen again.

Meanwhile,

Vote: Ellibereth.

Policy lynch. We've never been on the same side.

[SaintKerrigan]

@SK- I am not ready for an Eli lynch, policy be damned.

But Elli has never been on the same side as me, and I'm town in this game. What more could you possibly need?

[SaintKerrigan]

Camn is correct in the interpretation of my logic.

Sorry, Mae, I'm all out of fresh organs. You can have some of Elli's once we're done with him, though.

[SaintKerrigan]

Grr, Mafiascum doublepost.

[SaintKerrigan]

EBWOP:

Mod, mind deleting one of my DPs?

Done. - Incog-Mod

[SaintKerrigan]

Sorry, Mae, I'm all out of fresh organs. You can have some of Elli's once we're done with him, though.

Then how are you alive?

I got zombified. Can't you tell? My skin's green and my hair's all grimy and growing in clumps.

[SaintKerrigan]

Well, not precisely.

Logically, if it WERE true, SK could be scum sometimes, whilst Elli were town.

Could you explain better?

Unvote: Ellibereth. Vote: Bouncy.bouncy.

Do you grasp an understanding of the concept of logic? That was a perfect explanation by Camn. You can't perfect perfection.

[SaintKerrigan]

I don't know what "it" is referring to.

"It" is clearly referring to my statement regarding how Elli has never been on the same side as me, which you quoted in the post that Camn responded to

immediately

afterward. How exactly did you fail to define what "it" was referring to?

[SaintKerrigan]

Why don't we vote you? Cause you clearly cant make more then two sentences.

So...this is scummy how, exactly?

[SaintKerrigan]

Good question. How does that make you feel? *holds mic out*

It makes me feel like you're being hypocritical since none of your posts contain more than two sentences.

Unvote: Bouncy.bouncy. Vote: Midnight's Sorrow.

Go, wagon, go!

[SaintKerrigan]

Derp, forgot about this.

I'm thinking it's about time for bouncy to claim. Thoughts?

Nah, too early, I think. Let's wait awhile.

[SaintKerrigan]

Grr, simulposted.

Wait, why are you bailing from the bouncy wagon?

There's plenty of votes to keep pressure on there. I want to pursue this fascinating new angle I found for awhile.

[SaintKerrigan]

You realize you're setting yourself up for the Day 2 lynch if bouncy flips scum right?

You do realize there's more than one scum in this game, right?

[SaintKerrigan]

I don't know. I'm just playing the devil's

avocado

.

Avocado is a fruit...

[SaintKerrigan]

Mod: I apparently became a double-voter all of a sudden...thanks!

Lol at SerialClergyman.

Fixed. - Incog-Mod

[SaintKerrigan]

@ MS: Did you know that abusing the Rolling Eyes smiley is a serious scumtell?

Lol at you changing your logic for voting Camn and claiming that was your initial reasoning.

The logical progression of the posts in question are perfectly understandable. I even explained it in simple terms and he

still

thinks it could mean something else. I mean, seriously?

[SaintKerrigan]

Why does Hoopla have a pair of votes? Explanations are required for this...

[SaintKerrigan]

MS, didn't I tell you that abusing the rolling eyes smiley was a scumtell? Tsk, tsk.

Why should we believe you're town? You haven't been very convincing in that department...

[SaintKerrigan]

And neither have other people. Why the tunnel vision where I am concerned? Should you not be also looking else where for people who are scum???

You aren't presenting convincing evidence why other people aren't town.

Nobody's been tunneling on you, by the way. You just stole most of the show.

@ Buttonmen: Why were you voting for Hoopla earlier?

[SaintKerrigan]

@ TheButtonMen: I don't see anything that indicates Hoopla is scum. That said, I'll be interested to see if she starts pushing a case on Elli since she said either Elli or Midnight was scum.

Would people please stop calling Camn town? We're gonna get her nightkilled!

As for Earlder1, the echoing accusations by other players are certainly true enough. What concerns me is that his echoing led to a mislynch. Day 2 starts and he begins by--what else--echoing Ellibereth and trying to shift suspicion onto Kenman. He then goes and calls Kenman scum

without

voting for him.

I'll ride this wagon.

Vote: Earlder1.

Bouncy's still lingering as a candidate.

[SaintKerrigan]

If i can straighten this out as soon possible it will greatly benefit the town. Assuming BB is telling the truth, can roleblocking one scum, invalidate ALL REMAINING scum members' decisions on who to kill or does it just block special abilities??

Cuz if that is not a possibility then there would still be a kill and he is obv. scum.

Ok, I was going to argue against the logic of this Kenman wagon, but this post is just scummy as hell. Since when has roleblocking one scum roleblocked all the scum? Also, his last sentence looks like a dead giveaway to me. Paraphrased, "If roleblocking one scum doesn't roleblock all scum, there'd still be a kill." Which tells me, "I'm roleblocked scum, but I didn't perform the kill."

It's still too early to end the day, but I've got a hammer on standby.

[SaintKerrigan]

Even if thats really what you take from it, then doesnt mean that BB is lying?

Nope. Something else might've happened to prevent your scumbuddy from sending his kill.

[SaintKerrigan]

EBWOP: There could also be a Doc save.

@ Hoopla: Why is Ken town?

[SaintKerrigan]

If by "railroaded" you mean "forced", I fail to see how you are being "forced" to vote for Kenman, or how you were "forced" to vote for Midnight's Sorrow.

[SaintKerrigan]

I PROPOSE: we lynch Kenman with the agreement that bouncy does NOT get lynched on the basis of kenmans flip. Bouncy gets lynched, or not, based on traditional inquisition later in the game.

I totally agree with this.

[SaintKerrigan]

I don't like this bandwagon; too cliqueish. I would consider getting on if Elli left.

I see no problem with Ellibereth.

Explain, plz.

Unvote: Earlder1.

Kenman, just in case this isn't clear, you need to send your "Hide behind Earl" action NAO. As in, ASAP.

[SaintKerrigan]

Wait a minute.

I thought Hiders were NK immune as long as they were hiding. Why does Camn think NKing the Hider gets both the Hider and his target dead?

[SaintKerrigan]

Nvm, I just read Camn's statement funny the first time. I get things now.

[SaintKerrigan]

@ SPS: So why Elli, specifically?

Meanwhile,

Vote: Maemuki.

GET THE FRUITCAKE BACK IN HERE, GIRL!

[SaintKerrigan]

Why wait, Camn? One of those two is lying scum, and if we don't lynch the scum today, we'll definitely get him tomorrow.

Unvote: Maemuki. Vote: Kenman.

[SaintKerrigan]

ITT Bouncy gives away his alignment. He's the next lynch after whichever of the other two flips scum.

[SaintKerrigan]

Earl, unvote yourself. Pyrrhic sacrifice is frowned upon around these parts.

Unvote: Kenman.

Bouncy, Earl, and Ken, I want all three of you to submit the time yesterday you sent your role action PMs. Now.

[SaintKerrigan]

But my pm tells me if that person targets someone, not if an action goes through. I read it very carefully. I tracked Kenman, and my response is that he targetted no one!

Actually, this ought to settle it. I'll wait to vote until my previous question is answered by Ken, Earl, and BB, just for the heck of it.

[SaintKerrigan]

Vote: Maemuki.

Same reason as Camn, same reason as before.

So...according to Deep South rules, roles like roleblock last from the time of the PM until the end of the day. Since Bouncy submitted his action earlier Ken's, it's feasible that Ken got roleblocked from hiding.

This is moot, of course, if Earl's Tracker ability works like he claims it does.

[SaintKerrigan]

Ask Ellibereth. He knows about trashing your partner for the win

Lol this.

[SaintKerrigan]

I disagree with massclaiming today as well.

Maaaaaybe

tomorrow, but I'm more likely to agree with it sometime around Day 4 or later.

Roleblockers resolve after hiding, so that doesn't interfere with the tracker result

That's only if Incog uses Natural Action Resolution or something like it. According to the Deep South rules, certain actions resolve before others. Roleblock starts from the time the action was submitted until the end of the day.

Kenman, do you know what action category your role falls under in the Deep South mechanic? Is it an Instant action, a Rest of the Day action, or an End of the Day action? Yes, this is very important.

Guys, let's not lynch anyone until morning is over. Will explain later.

That said, Maemuki needs to produce moar content.

[SaintKerrigan]

@SK:

Later when you have time or later as in when morning ends?

Later as in when certain conditions are met. Morning's end is one of those conditions.

[SaintKerrigan]

Kenman, I know you were online earlier and looking in Coney Island. If you're trying to avoid answering my question, you better just give it up. Your moment of truth is going to happen in 3-1/2 hours anyway.

[SaintKerrigan]

Roleblockers resolve after hiding, so that doesn't interfere with the tracker result

That's only if Incog uses Natural Action Resolution or something like it.

That was already confirmed somewhere in the thread. Either Earlder or Kenman has to be lying. Or both

If Natural Action Resolution was confirmed to be in use, I never saw it. If Deep South mechanics run as stated on Page 1, then Natural Action Resolution is a direct conflict with that.

[SaintKerrigan]

NAR was confirmed to me via pm.
Doesn't contradict Deep South at all.

Ok.

Shit. There goes my wonderful idea.

[SaintKerrigan]

Actually, scratch that. My plan still works.

[SaintKerrigan]

And I just realized that because of this, I don't need to wait on Kenman's answer before revealing the plan.

We know either Kenman or Earlder1 is scum. Both of their claims can't be true. Kenman has already stated that he sent his hide PM, behind Earl, so that action should resolve at morning's end. Hiders obviously die if they hide behind mafia.

So, by morning's end, we'll know for sure which of Earl and Kenman is lying by whether Kenman dies or not. If he dies, he was telling the truth, and Earl is scum. If Kenman lives, Earl was telling the truth, and thus Kenman is scum.

Thus, if we wait to lynch until after morning, we'll know for sure which of those two is scum, and we'll lynch the lying scumbag.

Anything wrong that I missed?

[SaintKerrigan]

Scum bus driver or roleblocker.

If Natural Action Resolution is being used, Kenman's hide should not be affected by either of those abilities.

One of those two guys is scum. By morning's end, we'll know who it is.

[SaintKerrigan]

No need to speculate on setup.
Kenman is nullified.

Plus, my gut says he is telling the truth.

Then he'll die at morning's end and we can lynch Earl.

[SaintKerrigan]

Yep. Or tomorrow morning when he targets some other scum, if we are wrong about the resolution.

If Kenman doesn't die at morning's end, he's scum, and we lynch him. Period.

Earl explicitly stated that his Tracking tells him if Kenman targeted someone, so even if Kenman somehow got roleblocked last night, he should've still registered to Earl has having had a target. Earl says Kenman didn't target anyone. Thus, one of them is lying scum, and by morning's end we'll know which one it is.

[SaintKerrigan]

Can we get back to lynching Maemuki?

We aren't lynching Maemuki today.

Unvote: Maemuki.

Why are you so determined that Kenman stay alive?

[SaintKerrigan]

Im also worried about your logic. If my ability actually resolves at end day, then me surviving the morning is not idicative of anything. Your just gong to end up killing me on faulty logic.

I highly doubt that a Hider's action would resolve at the end of the day.

[SaintKerrigan]

VOTE: KENMAN

Die, filthy lying scumbag!

Also, Hoopla? Hmm, interesting.

[SaintKerrigan]

Remember, actions submitted in the morning don't resolve until morning's end, and it doesn't make sense to me that if a hider hid behind scum, the hider wouldn't die until the end of the day.

Just in case my logic is fucked up in some way, though, I might be willing to wait until tomorrow morning for Kenman to die. If he's still alive by then, there's absolutely no way he can be telling the truth. But I still don't see the logic in waiting until the end of the day to kill the hider.

I find it odd that Camn seems to be trying to keep Kenman alive for an unduly long period of time. It's also slightly odd that she wasn't the first nightkill, but it's way too early to be thinking about something like that seriously.

[SaintKerrigan]

Okay, I'm willing to stay my hand from Ken and Earl until tomorrow morning. No longer than that, though.

Unvote: Kenman. Vote: Maemuki.

Back to the mysteriously quiet person.

[SaintKerrigan]

Elli, why do you think you're wrong about Steam?

[SaintKerrigan]

I think her first post about not listening to StK's whining might be some sort of jailkeeper crumb, but if it is I can't work it out exactly.

Nah, that was totally her legitimate tiff with me for something stupid I did in an ongoing game.

[SaintKerrigan]

Shouldn't we give Maemuki a chance to tell us who she wants to lynch?

Shouldn't you tell us who you want to lynch?

+1

[SaintKerrigan]

ALERT!

L-0 APPROACHING...

In other words, Mae, this might be a good time to stop lurking. Unless you're scum, of course. In that case, carry on!

[SaintKerrigan]

@ BB: Pushing for massclaim is not scummy.

[SaintKerrigan]

Ok, Maemuki posted today, and has been politely ignoring this thread.

If you non-voters were waiting for her to make some kind of glorious defense for herself, you're out of luck. Now get off your hands and let's finish the job.

[SaintKerrigan]

Quite seriously, the fact we can't get a majority for this lynch is actually pretty disturbing.

QFT

[SaintKerrigan]

Mod: Can I

pleeeeeeeeeease

have my doublevote ability back? I'll make it worth your while...

Seriously, though, if we don't get a lynch today, there's gonna be some hell to pay tomorrow.

[SaintKerrigan]

Oh, I forgot about that...

I think I take these games too seriously sometimes.

[SaintKerrigan]

I'm fine with Steam hammering.

[SaintKerrigan]

Vote: Kenman.

Obv scum is obv scum.

Also, if there's a doc in the game, protect Earl.

[SaintKerrigan]

Camn, the play is obvious. We lynch Kenman today. If he's scum, jolly good, on to the next one. If he's town, we lynch Earl-scum tomorrow, and we'll just have to be extra-careful not to mislynch afterwards.

I highly doubt Kenman is town, however. Not only is his Hider claim very convenient, but even when presented with an opportunity to 100% confirm scum to the town by sacrificing his life, he opts to save himself instead. This doesn't look like good townie behavior to me. If he is town, then we can't trust him, since he places the value of his own life over the good of the town.

To summarize: stop defending Kenman and get on the wagon.

[SaintKerrigan]

@ Camn: Earl specifically stated that his ability tracks whether someone targeted another person, and he said Kenman didn't target anyone D1. Which means if Ken flips town, he's telling the truth about targeting Hoopla, which means Earl is lying, which makes him scum.

Got it, sweetie?

[SaintKerrigan]

EWBOP: Did I really leave that last part in there? /facepalm

[SaintKerrigan]

Double EBWOP: Missed this earlier.

If scum learned their lesson from D1, they've submitted their kill today as early as possible. Quicklynching only hurts the town PRs from doing their jobs.

Proposal: No lynching Kenman until everyone has posted once or twenty-four hours have passed.

What say ye?

[SaintKerrigan]

Goddammit why can't I think of all these things in the same post? Sorry, guys.

Unvote: Kenman

to make sure his scumbuddies don't try to quickhammer him to prevent town PRs from doing stuff.

[SaintKerrigan]

I do, but it relies on Earl knowing what he is talking about.
Which is something I rarely believe.

Past experience? When/where?

[SaintKerrigan]

1. Massclaim isn't a terrible idea.
2. Button is suspicious, but we are

not

lynching him over Kenman today.

[SaintKerrigan]

[quote"StK"]If scum learned their lesson from D1, they've submitted their kill today as early as possible. Quicklynching only hurts the town PRs from doing their jobs.

This seems like a weird thing to say for someone convinced about kenman scum. Aren't you forgetting the obvious other option, that bouncy legitimately blocked a kill?[/quote]

True, Bouncy could've prevented the scumkill D1. But I still think scum would try to submit the kill as quickly as possible, to avoid losing the opportunity to use it. Thus, I feel that quicklynching is a bad idea, since scum likely wouldn't fall victim to it and town PRs might not get the chance to do their stuff.

[SaintKerrigan]

Stupid tags. Take two.

If scum learned their lesson from D1, they've submitted their kill today as early as possible. Quicklynching only hurts the town PRs from doing their jobs.

This seems like a weird thing to say for someone convinced about kenman scum. Aren't you forgetting the obvious other option, that bouncy legitimately blocked a kill?

True, Bouncy could've prevented the scumkill D1. But I still think scum would try to submit the kill as quickly as possible, to avoid losing the opportunity to use it. Thus, I feel that quicklynching is a bad idea, since scum likely wouldn't fall victim to it and town PRs might not get the chance to do their stuff.

[SaintKerrigan]

Who's next, Button?

[SaintKerrigan]

Ken, you had your chance.

[SaintKerrigan]

VT.

Whatcha got, Elli?

[SaintKerrigan]

Guys, why weren't votes removed when Kenman got to L-1? There's definitely scum on the Kenman wagon, since I find it hard to believe that four townies would allow Ken to getaway with quicklynching himself.

Boberz needs to give his results ASAP. He's obviously the next person to die as confirmed town.

I'm having a little difficulty right now with the idea of Camn's innocence. She was very gung-ho for the lynch of two townies, but when someone scummier than both the previous lynches comes along, she's fairly resistant to the idea of lynching him. He turns out to be scum. This does not make Camn look good. I have some thinking to do on this one.

Bouncy needs to start posting stuff, or get replaced.

My gut (and sporadic memory) says that SPS or Button (or both) is scum. Not sure which, and I'm not going to place a vote yet.

Due to Elli's info, if there's a godfather in the game, it's likely SPS or Camn. So if one of them flips Godfather later on, the other is definitely innocent.

[SaintKerrigan]

FUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUCKING DOUBLEPOSTS!!!

I refreshed this page specifically to make sure I wouldn't do this, and guess what happens?

Mod: Please delete one of the two previous posts.

Done. - Incog-mod

[SaintKerrigan]

I don't want to have this argument.. but outside of unconfirmed power-role speculation.. how was Kenman scummy? His responses seemed genuine to me.

I was ready to hammer him even before he claimed Hider. His posts did not read as town in my eyes. Post #245, in particular. Since then, he just kept making himself scummy, and I felt it was fairly obvious that he fakeclaimed Hider to get out of what otherwise would've been a sure lynch.

Do you really think that, in the face of 2 power role attacks.. that I would fail to bus a scumpartner?
There is no scum motivation for it, especially considering that my position ALWAYS was to lynch Kenman before Lylo. Why would me-scum openly protect someone who I KNEW would flip scum eventually? How does that even make sense? Clearly I thought he was town, which procludes me from being scum.

Actually, it's kinda hard to know, since I've never seen you play as scum before. But in general, keeping Kenman alive as long as possible creates more mislynch opportunities, which is good for scum. One more mislynch likely puts us in lylo, so delaying a Kenman lynch until D4 wouldn't be a bad move for scum. Even if you get lynched the following day, there's still one guy left (presuming a 3-man scumteam), so as long as he stays alive, scum wins. It's not as ridiculous as you make it out to be.

The fact that you wanted to rush it so hard is the scummy part, but I have a town read on you otherwise.

You mean me rush the Kenman lynch? Sure, because I thought he was likely scum. Game mechanics persuaded me to stay my hand. But I didn't rush the lynch on Day 3. On the contrary, I unvoted specifically to prevent a quicklynch. Unfortunately more scum got on and the town onboard weren't paying attention.

But if it HAS to be me or SPS (a position I am not convinced on) then lets lynch him. But is he is town and you stick with this serial-lynch nonsense.. then we are dead.

I never said either you or SPS absolutely had to be scum. I just said if there was a Godfather, it was likely one of you two, so if either of you flips Godfather later, the other is totally cleared. Actually, if someone else flips Godfather, both you and SPS would be cleared.

Also.. just a point of irony. You are attacking me both for lynching Kenman too quickly, and for not Lynching Kenman quickly enough.

Why are you assuming that I'm attacking you for lynching Kenman too quickly?

[SaintKerrigan]

And to answer your question, 506! The whydidntyouunvote@ L-1.

That wasn't attacking you. That was saying I found it unlikely that four townies let Kenman get away with a quicklynch selfhammer. In other words, there's scum on the Ken wagon.

[SaintKerrigan]

First, how is it likely that a GF is SPS or camn? Seems to me just as likely that anybody else could be a godfather... could be you, actually.

I was continuing Elli's line of speculation before he died. Either SPS or Camn flipping godfather will clear the other of suspicion (because two godfathers in the same game is very, very unlikely). If anyone else flips godfather, both SPS and Camn are cleared.

Second, I don't like going after cop innocents. Scum might have a role cop or something instead.

First, what does scum having a rolecop have to do with anything? Second, I find Camn's behavior suspect and I'm not going to let that go unnoticed.

Third, Camn has seemed extremely pro-town to me, and I've felt a lot better about SPS after mid-D2. So, I'll take a chance on assuming that the quoted post is manipulation.

Okay. So why's Camn town? Why's SPS feeling town? Why is my post manipulation?

Also, who were your targets the past couple of days?

[SaintKerrigan]

Edit: I'd consider lynching a cop innocent in Lylo if no roled scum dies, though. But I doubt it's Lylo right now.

???

Elaborate.

[SaintKerrigan]

I do, but it relies on Earl knowing what he is talking about.
Which is something I rarely believe.

Past experience? When/where?

Camn, please answer this.

[SaintKerrigan]

*Maemuki (6) <-~ camn, SerialClergyman, Ellibereth, SaintKerrigan, Kenman, Steam-Powered Shovel

Not voting (4) <-~ Maemuki, bouncy.bouncy, TheButtonmen, Earlder1

ON WAGON <-~

camn

,

SerialClergyman

,

Ellibereth

, SaintKerrigan,

Kenman

,

Steam-Powered Shovel

OFF WAGON <-~

Maemuki

,

bouncy.bouncy

,

TheButtonmen, Earlder1

obvtown

leaning town

neutral

leaning scum

obvscum

So wait a second. Why is Earl/Boberz an obvscum read yet you were voting for a leaning town read?

[SaintKerrigan]

Ok, I went back and looked at some stuff (ISOs included), and here's how my reads on people currently stand.

Confirmed Town (because he knows it)
- SaintKerrigan

Confirmed Town
- Boberz

One of these two is for sure Town (Other could be scum if person is a Godfather, otherwise Town)
- Camn
- Steam-Powered Shovel

Very Likely Town (because his play as scum doesn't make sense)
- Bouncy.bouncy

That leaves SerialClergyman and TheButtonMen as scum candidates. However, I don't like Serialscum because I haven't seen it in his posts, particularly his attempt to stop the quicklynch on Kenman on Day 3. The fact that Buttonmen got on the wagon after a fear of quicklynching had been broadcast is suspicious.

Personally, I think one of the two cop investigation targets is actually a Godfather, and I'm quickly warming up to Buttonmen as the final member of a scum trio. Won't vote on it yet, though, we've still got time for discussion.

[SaintKerrigan]

In fact SK, a potential slip. You claimed VT, does this differ from the Townie described in the Second Post?

I think the two are interchangable.

Also, both Buttonmen and SPS claimed VT as well. Why'd you single me out with the "potential slip"?

@ SC: I'm not going to push one of the cop targets today, either.

[SaintKerrigan]

Bouncy. Make sure you have your roleblock submitted before morning's over.

Vote: TheButtonMen.

Bouncy, you have the hammer.

[SaintKerrigan]

If Bouncy dies,

no one hammers

until Boberz confirms that he sent his track. Anyone who hammers Button before Boberz confirms sending the tracking PM is immediately made Public Enemy #1. Got it?

Same if Boberz dies.

[SaintKerrigan]

Unvote: TheButtonMen.

Pending Bouncy's results.

[SaintKerrigan]

I'm thinking the scumteam is TBM and SK, but I would lynch SC.

??? Why do you want to lynch SC instead of your top two suspects?

Vote: TheButtonMen.

[SaintKerrigan]

Lol double whammy.

[SaintKerrigan]

Oooook. Definitely need to rethink things over.

One of these two people is

definitely

innocent.

SPS
Camn

We should ignore them for noose consideration today.

So there is definitely at least one scum among Bouncy, SC, and I. Since I know I'm not scum, that leaves Bouncy and SC. I looked at SC's play recently and I thought it looked town, so first I'll go back and reevaluate my stance on Bouncy.

[SaintKerrigan]

We have to get a lynch in before morning ends or we lose right? (Unless a kill is prevented.)

Very

good point! Ok, people, we better have a lynch done in less than 48 hours! Get busy!

[SaintKerrigan]

lol, not instead of them. I meant if he somehow got close to a lynch.

Why were you willing to lynch SC at all when your top two scumpicks yesterday were Button and me?

[SaintKerrigan]

@ Camn: The thing is, I'm already well aware that at least one of my town reads is wrong. The only way you and SPS are scum together is if Elli was an insane cop (in which case town's already screwed because there's no way to prove it). Thus at least one of you is town for sure. That's why I don't want to lynch either you or SPS today.

Since I know I'm not scum, that leaves SC and Bouncy as lynch candidates. Both of these people I thought were town yesterday, so obviously one of my reads is off. So I'm going to look at both of them and try to figure out which one of my town reads was wrong. Heck, maybe

both

of them are scum. It's possible setup-wise.

Point being, I am not going to trust my vote to one of my current suspects. If you're town, I strongly advise against doing so yourself. But right now I'm seriously beginning to doubt that you're town.

think you are scum.
Your buss on Kenman was intense from the get-go. YOu were probably happy to get rid of the weak link of your scumteam.
Jumping on the 'there must be a godfather' idea was scummy... lunching a cop-innocent would be a nice little coup for scum, I think.

So how is intense pursuit of lying scum scummy? At least I wasn't trying to keep scum alive.
The Godfather line, as I said before, was a continuation of Elli's extrapolation. I also never said there "must" be a godfather. I'm just considering it a possibility, especially when one of the cop's "innocents" is behaving in a scummy manner.

Because I wasn't very sure on any of you. And when the game gets down to the wire, I go with any of my suspects who the town wants to lynch, since I usually think people are better scumhunters than I am.

Why did you even mention being willing to lynch SC? An SC-lynch was nowhere in the discussion yesterday. You know what it looks like to me? Scum making sure his options are open in Lylo the next day.

[quote="Bouncy.bouncy"I think it's more likely that both you and SC are scum than one scum being among the two innocents, but with TBM not being a roled scum, I'm okay with lynching one of them if somebody makes a better case against them than people have already.[/quote]

We can deal with the "innocents" tomorrow if any of them are still alive (and we lynch correctly today). Right now, we find out if you, me, or SC is scum. (Hint: it's not me.)

But I still think your "one of them is probably a godfather" was a scum play.

You like hanging on to that line, don't you? Camn is not behaving very town-like as of late. Since she's a cop-innocent, either she's playing very badly (and I'm strongly disinclined to think that) or she's scum with investigation immunity. Usually Godfathers get that immunity.

So tell me, Bouncy: why is Camn's play town? How is trying to keep scum alive as long as possible not scummy? (I expect an answer to both questions.)

This sudden tandem by Camn and Bouncy doesn't look right to me...and neither does the case they present against me.

[SaintKerrigan]

Whoa! Stop the fucking presses!!!

I know that both of the innocents can't be scum and I know I'm not scum

Kerrigan's almost certainly scum, probably with one of the innocents

SC, explain yourself. Now.

[SaintKerrigan]

I knew all the scum were ganging up on me in the end.

GG, scum. Although we lost more due to quicklynches, in my opinion. I think if we'd thought things through we could've caught at least Bouncy.

[SaintKerrigan]

Also, much thanks to Incog for the modding. This is the most fun I've had in a game in a long while (even though town lost).

Yeah, town allowing Kenman to quickhammer was an awful, awful blunder. It was another reason why I suspected Camn, because I thought a player of her stature would know better than allow that to happen. Ugh, if it weren't for that and the odd treatment of Kenman, I could've focused more on SC and Bouncy early on. Oh well, hindsight is awesome.

The Kenman bus was totally epic. Props to you guys for pulling it off.

Oh, and SC:

One last little logical point was that if the scum had a godfather with an innocent verdict on them, why would kenman quicklynch himself? They'd actually WANT the cop to claim.

If the town had thought of that I think that would have 100% cleared SPS because that investigation was pretty obvious, and 95% cleared camn.

Huh? The logic's not making sense here. The cop did claim.

[SaintKerrigan]

Kerrigan - Ken quickhammered himself to try to stop elli from claiming his results. Elli had claimed cop but he hadn't listed his results. If sps was a mafia godfather, they would want elli to announce his results. The fact that kenman was scared enough of Ellis rsults that he killed himself to try to stop them getting announced suggests strongly that there was no godfather.

Hmm. Ok, I think I see your point. Problem is that I thought Kenman quickhammered mostly to reduce town talking, because if we'd actually done that we might've been able to figure other things out. I didn't know that Kenman was afraid of Elli's results, so I don't think I would've been able to follow that line of logic. Oh well.

@ Camn: Well, it wasn't entirely directed at you. Everyone on that wagon except Bouncy and Ken shouldn't have voted period until we had our fill of discussion. Next time, I'll make damn sure it won't happen again.

Also, I'm really sorry I helped lynch you, Button. I wasn't really sure that you were scum, but I thought most everyone else was likely town, so I ignored my gut telling me to stop it. Of course, whenever I don't listen to my gut it's always right.

[SaintKerrigan]

SaintK: I'm glad you enjoyed the game. Very Happy I thought your play here was much improved from the last time you were a VT in one of my games in Mafia With The Quickness.

Thanks! I was experimenting a little bit with my playstyle this game, trying to tone down the snap-at-everything-that-moves tendency I have.

Funny thing is, the only reason I got on the Bouncy wagon on D1 was for pressure. I was really hoping people weren't going to force me to admit that and go "lawls pressure vote scumscumscum die."

@ Kenman: GG, and thanks. For the record, I salute you for allowing yourself to be thrown under the bus to get the win. When scum do stuff like that, town is always in big trouble (because they rarely see it coming).

[SaintKerrigan]

I just realized...

ELLI, WE WERE ON THE SAME SIDE!!!

A GLORIOUS EVENT HAS OCCURRED!!!