Mini 969 - Smalltown: Stardust Mafia (Game Over)

[ReaperCharlie]

/me needs to go watch Stardust again =0

[ReaperCharlie]

/me has a feeling he will get Billy the Goat. LOL

[ReaperCharlie]

charter, what is the band in your avatar again? I forgot their name, but I always thought they had an awesome CD cover. I tried looking for it once, but I couldn't find it. Two letters isn't much to go by when searching google lol

[ReaperCharlie]

Wow, I totally didn't understand how the order for drafting was done.

Yeah I didn't really read it either. I don't care what role I get, and my favorite number is 43, so I just picked 4 and 3, lol

[ReaperCharlie]

Haha, it's depressing to be where we are, isn't it? Maybe we should have paid better attention to the way the drafting worked, lmao

If I understood correctly, the mod said that even though players get their roles, the

alignments

are being randomized. This leads me to believe that even Bernard could end up to be evil. Which would be funny.

[ReaperCharlie]

charter, what is the band in your avatar again? I forgot their name, but I always thought they had an awesome CD cover. I tried looking for it once, but I couldn't find it. Two letters isn't much to go by when searching google lol

Girl Talk. He's more of a DJ than a band, but he's really good.

Ah. Thanks. Sorry to clog up the topic everyone, but I got an official warning in another ongoing game for PMing a player to say 'happy scumday' and ask them what

their

avatar was. lol. If anyone else is interested in the album art, here is a large version: http://t7.abncdata.com/random/music/Gir ... nimals.jpg

And that's a good question, Mr. Bean.

[ReaperCharlie]

Makes sense. Hurry up, let's get this party started!

[ReaperCharlie]

I want Fredy the fence, Networker

Curse you, I wanted him. Haha

Still need to pick:

5. MagnaOfIllusion (5,2)
6. charter (5,6)
7. Kdub (1,1)
8. CallMeLiam (1,2)
9. Starbuck (1,3)
10. peanutman (4,2)
11. ReaperCharlie (4,3)
12. totallynotmafia (4,7)

Roles left:

Wall Guard - Bodyguard
Princess Una - One-shot Sensor
Ditchwater Sal - Roleblocker
Victoria - Redirector
Captain Shakespeare - Commuter
Yvaine - Revivor
Dunstan Thorne - Motivator
Bernard - Vanilla

[ReaperCharlie]

Oh, so

we

you guys pick in the thread?...doesn't that make it heaps easier for scum seeing as they already know who each PR is?

It's ok, you can pick by PM

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHA

[ReaperCharlie]

Interesting point.

Oh, Staaaarbuck? Wherefore art thou, Starbuck?

[ReaperCharlie]

Haha, I'll take Yvaine please. Give Bernard to Patrick

I had mandatory training this morning (damn military).

U.S. military? If so, that's funny that you're stationed in Sicily. No wonder you play Mafia.

[ReaperCharlie]

Vote: CallMeLiam

for making the first post,

and

for setup speculation on my role! (double whammy, you bastard)

[ReaperCharlie]

Who wants to be networked tonight?

Pick me! That was the role I wanted anyway

[ReaperCharlie]

everyone should target me tonight except the scum with their kills obv

LMAO

[ReaperCharlie]

I'ma be honest, I haven't seen Stardust since 2007 so I don't really remember much of anything. So I looked up my character online, and found out that I was ...

... a hot blonde chick! Score!

[ReaperCharlie]

He

gets

[was left with]

a hot blonde chick, and I

get

[got to choose my role, and I chose]

a goat. Wow.

Fixed.

No hard feelings though. I would have picked the goat, too.

[ReaperCharlie]

But it'd still be a stupid idea, like Jack said in 88. I'd laugh so hard if that happened.

On a side note: I just went out and bought Stardust and will be watching it tonight. lmao

Btw, V/LA this weekend as noted in my sig.

[ReaperCharlie]

There's not really anything to catch up on yet. But I just watched the movie... apparently I get the boy in the end. Ha Starbuck

Also, every time I see Mr. Bean's posts and am reminded that he learns everything, that makes me scared that he is scum. Regardless of whether or not we are lovers, the fact that he may have the most powerful role worries me.

I guess what I am trying to say is: This is awesome. Anything could happen.

Somebody join my bandwagon!

[ReaperCharlie]

U.S. military? If so, that's funny that you're stationed in Sicily. No wonder you play Mafia.

Yes, U.S. Navy, been in for 6 1/2 years.

Cool, I haven't been in that long yet. I hit 5 yrs next month though.

[ReaperCharlie]

Wtf. I was hoping there would be something to read when I got back from V/LA. Very little new content, and what's this? Nobody's posted in over a day? I'm disappointed in you guys =[

[ReaperCharlie]

*waits for people to get more active*

This place was active as heck before the weekend. What happened to you noobs? Come on! Discuss some things with me! This isn't nearly as long as a large theme game and nobody posting just gives the scum a chance to lurk through the day! FFS

*frowns*

[ReaperCharlie]

I was on V/LA, and was trying to make time to stay caught up.

I was merely voicing my disappointment that out of the other

eleven

players, I seemed to be the only one to have posted in the last two days, and I was sad that there wasn't actually anything to catch up with =[

Anyways, here's my analysis of what's happened so far:

If the tracker lacks a better target they should follow the bodyguard. If the bodyguard is scum they will be tempted to go nowhere. The threat of them being tracked may force them to go somewhere, and possibly be killed.

The latter half of this is complete wifom.

It's been a while since I've played a game with a CPR Doc. Is the idea to just play like a vig?

That's what I would assume, and had I that role, that's how I would play. If I wasn't sure, I would refrain from using my power for that night, because it's better to have 1 kill than 2, if you're mistaken about your target being scum. Insert wifom here. Even though this is only a mini, the chances of the Mafia and CPR Doc selecting the same person are 1/88 (mafia wouldn't kill other mafia, and doc wouldn't select himself, lowering it from 1/144 to 1/88), so I would say yes, it's best to use your power just a vigilante-style role.

I don't think it's going to be very useful to direct actions for the first night. I think a mass action claim day 2 may be potentially useful though, but we should probably wait and see.

Here are the ways that could be useful:

1. It would show who thought whom was scum, based on who targeted whom role powers like CPR Doc(?), Redirector, Tracker, etc.
2. It would show who thought whom was town, based on those who targeted others with role powers like Motivator, Networker(?), etc.

So it would definitely show the scum know who suspected them.

As you said, it could be potentially useful. But that doesn't mean that it couldn't also be potentially harmful. I'm undecided at this point whether that'd be beneficial ENOUGH to warrant using it, because it would almost certainly be of great use to the scum, and I'm against it for this reason.

However, if I'm in the minority in my opinion that we shouldn't do it, and there DOES end up being a mass action-claim like Faraday suggested, it would basically nullify the Tracker role (of course, if you believe everyone, you're stupid, because some are obviously lying), but there is still a way I think the Tracker role could be useful: They could target roles that

don't

have a power that 'targets' or 'visits' any other players (i.e. Commuter, Revivor, Role Absorber, and Vanilla) and if their target 'targets' anyone else, they must be scum.

Of course, there's tons of wifom tied up in this suggestion/situation.

Another complication I thought of as I wrote this: If the the tracker could just claim to have tracked a non-targeting/visiting role (i.e. see above), and said that he tracked them to one of the people who died last night (there can be up to three, with Mafia, SK, and CPR Doc). This would be especially devious but again, insert wifom here.

everyone should target me tonight except the scum with their kills obv

wifom again. How do we know you're not scum?

If a Mafia Absorber were to get my Bodyguard power. would that be bad for the town? Good for the scum, yes. Bad for the SK, yes. Bad for the town?

Again, wifom-ish speculation, but I get a town vibe from this post for some reason.

In the post directly after it:

That would potentially be good for the town.

It doesn't seem like a useful ability for scum of any kind. I guess the mafia could protect a better powered one of their own, but it doesn't really seem that worth it.

I must have missed this before. Not useful for scum of any kind? If the bodyguard mafia guarded a scumchum with another power who was killed that night, he'd be killed instead, right? Therefore, it'd help the scumteam keep a member with a other powers, and at least they'd have another day to use their other powers. Yes, even as small as it seems, this would help them somewhat.

But wait, it might also help the original killer (SK at least, redirector maybe not so much) because then he'd know that if he killed the same person again the following night (if the first one flipped scum) that he could take out two scum. wifom AGAIN. So maybe you're right, maybe it doesn't really help them.

0_o Maybe disregard that part of my post (?)

Either way, I count

seven

wifom's in my post (now, eight). WTF OOBA, did you do this to us on purpose? it's the only explanation.

[ReaperCharlie]

Ok, more now.

@ posts

93-99

, I too believe that it's suspicious that MagnaofIllusion tried to distance himself from being SK, though that's obviously not a scumtell in and of itself. And while it's not inherently scummy to

not

be familiar with the OP, the way he

did

it struck me similarly to how it struck Jack: somehow it felt... 'off'. I would also say that MoI's avoidance of Jack's questions makes him appear even scummier.

Then there's this:

As Mr. Bean said, the only two that are worthwhile motivating are the tracker and the roleblocker. If the tracker is town then obviously that's a big advantage to motivate them and if they are scum then it doesn't really give them an advantage at all, and if they are the SK then they could help the town find scum as well. If the Roleblocker is town then we could possibly defend against both nightkills, if they are scum though they could use the two RBs to their advantage, and the same goes if they are SK, although scum could block the SK and vise versa.

I think out of the two it's probably best to motivate the tracker (provided Faraday isn't acting scummy) as I don't really see any detriment to the town if either scum or SK can track, and also because I agree with what Jack picked up on in Magna's post, that kind of over-explaining strikes me as something that scum/Sk are obliged to do. Magna, why did you have to point out that you were checking if Lord Sept could be tracked in the thread, why the need for the running commentary? It's kind of strange, even stranger that you actually knew what the SKs name was without having to check that.

Vote: MagnaofIllusion

While I agree with this post, and the vote contained in it, something in this post

also

strikes me as 'off'. In this post, TNM sounds like he is looking for

extra

reasons -- that is, in

addition

to what Jack noticed -- to go after MoI. This seems to me like a Mafia member hoping that someone has found out the SK first day, and that his scumteam won't have to spend the whole game trying to find him, and now he's trying to give as many reasons as possible so that everyone will want to lynch him.

Posts

110, 114

, and

115

somewhat de-escalates the intensity at which my scumdar was bloopin', because as Zang points out, this DOES begin to look like town vs town.

Faraday's

116, 119, 129

, and immediately following

V/LA announcement

strike me as odd. It's almost as if he doesn't want to have to account for changing his vote around so fast... so he leaves.

Preview edit: He's back now. Scratch that. Ugh.

@ Jack: What was the point of

post 117

?

My opinion is that the Magna/Jack thing may very well be town vs town, and Zang was stating that, so that the Magna vote didn't progress to a quicklynch. That does not appear scummy to me at all that he said that. I will read his posts more later today to see if there is a legitimate underlying scummy tone in his posts.

In conclusion:

FoS: MagnaofIllusion

FoS: totallynotmafia

FoS: Zang

I will probably lay a vote down very soon if discussion progresses considerably in the next day or two. I had originally voted MoI but I changed it to also being an FoS due to Zang's point about this possibly being town v town (which is a completely legitimate caution) and I don't want to be voting and unvoting and stuff until I am more convinced of who is scum and who is not.

There is really not a strong case on anyone at this point. Those who haven't chipped in yet, do so now, or I will begin to turn my attention to you as well.

[ReaperCharlie]

Yes, I had been fluffing up until now. Until we just left the RVS stage. ^_^

Blast-off!!!!! *toward content-filled posts for all*

[ReaperCharlie]

RC's Town List:

peanutman

[ReaperCharlie]

fos:peanutman

You're kidding, right?

tsk tsk: Reaper

for the last post

Backhand: Jack

[ReaperCharlie]

@ Jack:

I said 'You're kidding, right?' because peanutman's so-called 'IIoA' was actually good information, and analysis of the possibilities of motivating different roles. peanutman earned town points in my book with that post. Did you not think his post was helpful?

@ Kdub:

I am

not

agreeing with Zang. You are misrepping both me

AND

Zang. I don't believe he

ever

said that it was unmistakably town vs town, and I

KNOW

I didn't... I am merely pointing out the other side of the coin: that it's possible he did that from a pro-town standpoint instead of a scummy one.

Don't

misrep me again.

@ TNM:

Nice OMGUS, noob. Just pointing something out. Way to vote someone who FoS'd you just because you disagree with him. *facepalm* You said that it was

"even stranger that

you

[MoI] actually knew what the SKs name was without having to check

that

[the OPs]"

, which is a ridiculous line of reasoning, especially against anyone who is familiar with the movie at ALL. It's also complete fluff, and you were trying to pad your post so that nobody would suspect you. Basically, it seems like you were trying to start up a quick wagon on him, for terrible reasons, and seemed like poor wagon hopping.

Scum always care more about what people think of their actions than town do (first point under ScumHunting in RC's Mafia Strategy Tips, bro! See also point 7 under Scumhunting, this is a huge one that you are doing right now.) You were trying too hard to make it seem like you had ample reason to join a wagon on MagnaofIllusion, and you're trying even harder now to make it seem like you have a reason to vote me! Fallacy, I say!

And your blatant OMGUS on me is even more suspicious. Looks like we've caught a live one here! Let's get a'wagoning, folks!

Unvote; Vote: totallynotmafia

[ReaperCharlie]

@ Faraday 145 -- Well, ok. Hope everything's alright.

I would also say that MoI's avoidance of Jack's questions makes him appear even scummier.

Please point me to a question of Jack’s that I ignored.

The last half of

post 99

. You answered it previously in a deflective manner, but not directly, and so Jack asked it again.
Shortly afterward, it was lost in the page break, so I thought I'd bring it up again.

I will also point out that I misrepped MoI, making a blanket statement from memory, saying he hadn't answered Jack's

question

s

.
Upon a re-read, I can see only one he missed answering, and he did somewhat answer it, just not to Jack's satisfaction. My fault.

FTR, I am not sure whether (if either) of Jack/Magna are scum, or town. I have no concrete read either way on either of them.
I'm going to re-read and post later, but for now I want more votes on

totallynotmafia

. There is more to be learned here.

[ReaperCharlie]

Charlie:

Posts 110, 114, and 115 somewhat de-escalates the intensity at which my scumdar was bloopin', because as Zang points out, this DOES begin to look like town vs town.

My opinion is that the Magna/Jack thing may very well be town vs town, and Zang was stating that, so that the Magna vote didn't progress to a quicklynch. That

does not appear scummy to me at all

that he said that

. I will read his posts more later today to see if there is a

legitimate underlying scummy

tone

in his posts.

I will probably lay a vote down very soon if discussion progresses considerably in the next day or two. I had originally voted MoI but I changed it to also being an FoS due to Zang's point about this possibly being town v town (which is a completely legitimate caution) and I don't want to be voting and unvoting and stuff until I am more convinced of who is scum and who is not.

These were your only mentions of Zang in 143. Given this, I want to know:
1) How am I misrepresenting you about agreeing with Zang when these quotes show that you think Zang's town vs. town point is a "legitimate caution"?
2) Why did you FoS Zang if he "does not appear scummy to me at all"?

Important parts are bolded.

Observe: I

never

said that Zang

himself

wasn't scummy. I said that

pointing out that something may be town vs town

isn't scummy. When you try to point out that

I don't know if you're doing this on purpose, or if I am really writing things in a hard-to-understand manner.

If you do it again though, I am switching my vote to you because you are obviously trying to twist the words I am saying to mean something else, to mean whatever fits what you want others to believe. Doing that often means someone has a hidden agenda.

But onto bigger and brighter things. For instance, Zang.

[ReaperCharlie]

Not sure if I answered this yet:

Hey RC who's your top suspect at this stage?

totallynotmafia and charter

totallynotmafia for the reasons I posted before, and I talk about charter below:

---

Went back and re-read some more about Zang (and his lovers).

Here are the votes on Zang, and the "reasons" why. I must direct your attention to the fact that they are alarmingly thin AND/OR NONEXISTENT:

Charter

's reason(s):

post 126:

Zang's dismissal of the argument as town v town is scummy. Any way you slice it Zang is scummy

.

Really? Any way you slice it, Zang is scummy? Remember, at this point, Zang has

only

posted 118! How do you expect me or anyone to follow your reasoning for the rest of your argument there? The logic is nonexistent! This blows my mind! Also of note:

I was going to vote Jack, until I got to Zang...

This could be scum distancing. It would definitely be a very good excuse to do it right at this point, because it'd be subliminal.

---

Faraday

's reason(s):

119:

I want to vote Zang now too.

129:

unvote vote zang

Nothing more, nothing less. Absolutely

no

reasoning whatsoever. Following charter's nonexistent argument is the ONLY explanation for his vote.

Not to mention Faraday COMPLETELY ignores Zang's question in 131.

---

Peanutman

's reason(s):

147:

You seem to be too eager to get cozy in this thread and that's just not gonna fly with me. I'd rather you contribute than just offhandedly declare two people town on a whim and move on (without even addressing or commenting the merits of the discussion in question).

In Zang's post 118, the paragraph after the kdub quote shows exactly why Zang thinks magna doesn't deserve a scum rap (which doesn't seem too much like a stretch to me), and in 127 he says he thinks Jack is just misguided, vice being totally scummy.

And how does simply bringing up the possibility that an argument may be town vs town, all of a sudden make him scum? That doesn't make sense to me. I am

always

on the lookout for that possibility, because it CAUSES MISLYNCHES. FFS



@ charter, Faraday, peanutman: Please give a

REAL

explanation of why you think he is scum. If I'm convinced in the least, you'll have my vote. Until then, I'm sticking with my gut.

Ready? Go

[ReaperCharlie]

Well, well, well. Looks like I'm in a crock of it even though I wasn't the one arguing in the first place.

Well, I'll try to respond to each of your posts/points in the time I have before I go to sleep. If I miss something, let me know.

@ Faraday 164. Sorry, noted. I was at work and was popping in and out of the page to write my post so nobody would catch me *sheepish grin* I must have missed 141 somehow.

Way to vote someone who FoS'd you just because you disagree with him

Isn't what TNM did at all as far as I'm concerned, and if anyone comes off as OMGUS-y here it's you, RC.

I don't care. He did something I consider to be scummy, and if he wants to up the anty to voting instead of FoSing, I'm all for it. This fight may be town-vs-town as well (if indeed the other one was too), but I don't care about that either, as long as nobody gets mislynched for it.

See, when nobody discusses, things get stale. Scum are allowed to skate by. That's bad.

Point of order:

Town vs Town arguments can be GOOD. They are often

very

beneficial to hunting scum, cause scum will try to insert barbs to make things snowball that irk people the wrong way, and then people with a good eye can spot them. That's what I was saying about TNM's post earlier, when he quipped that it was weird that MoI knew the SK's name without reading the OP.

But when Town Vs Town gets to that certain point of multiple votes getting lain down (by townies), clever scum see the opportunity for a wayward mislynch, and start getting actually involved in the discussion as well, because the townies are all worked up because OH NOES! SOMEONE IS VOTING ME! OMGUS!

That's when things WIFOMsnowball and some innocent townie gets ganked.

That being said, I often throw mass-FoS's around to stimulate discussion. It's controversial, but as long as it gets people talking, who cares? It's gotten me mis-lynched a couple times but I don't think it's doing me any harm here on a grand scale.

I don't get this, first you are defending Zang and then you FOS him? What was your reason for being suspicious of Zang?

I don't really understand your suspicioun of Zang either.

My reasoning for FoSing Zang: Now that I look back at it, I wasn't really that suspicious of him. I'm still not. What I

was

suspicious of, was all the attention he was getting. That's the reason I put down 3 FoS's in a row, because out of all the people arguing/being argued about at that moment, those were the three that I was most suspicious of. Comprende?

Also, mass-FoSing is not voting, so it's not like I was vote-hopping, which I consider to be a scumtell. I was making a blanket suspicion statement in the general direction of the three who I believed to be the most likely to be scum, for reasons discovered or not discovered yet. I suspected Jack the least out of that group, so he didn't get one.

Get over it, it was only an FoS, and you're responding and contributing now. That's what the FoS was

FOR

in the first place, to get you to open your mouths instead of being inactive for a whole weekend.

Can I get an amen?

Somebody's

got to agree with me on my volatile early-activity strategy. Or am I the only one who likes a lively Day 1?

I voted you for three reasons that I found you scummy which I clearly stated (

your weak reason for fosing me

,

you fosing Zang without a reason

,

you complaining about activity levels while not actually contributing yourself

), so how is that voting for you just because I disagree with you?

The

italicized

and

bolded

are answered above. The

struck out

text is no longer a reason. Plus, I was V/LA. Sue me, I'm in the military, it's required that I be gone sometimes. Haha

You're trying to brush off my reasoning by saying it's just an OMGUS...please explain why just because you fosed me before I voted you how that makes me scummy? I'm interested to know, especially because you pretty much did the same thing on me afterwards. Your whole post is hypocritical, you accuse me of trying to start a bandwagon on someone yet you are quite clearly appealing to others to bandwagon me.

Ok, watch: You were quite happy with following the crowd on MagnaofIllusion, and then as soon as soon as I put an FoS on you, you found THREE 'reasons' to switch your vote to me. Crappy reasons, but w/e. So it WAS an OMGUS vote, among other things (yes, I acknowledge that your point of me mostly fluffing up until then was pretty true. It was RVS and I was V/LA). In order to get you talking instead of just inserting sideways jabs at others without any commitment to an argument yourself, I whacked you on the head with a foam mallet to wake you up.

Also, I still think what you did is scummy (what I indicated in my post where I originally FoS'd you).

Also, the constant threatening to vote people just makes you look even more scummy.

Really? Why?

This clutching at straws seems like you're trying your hardest to paint people scummy,

You don’t see determining that I am Lord Sept. simply based on a line you find “strange” as grasping at straws?

You still haven't answered this.

---

RC, what exactly are these "extra reasons" you're seeing that TNM gave for voting Magna? I don't see anything.

Read 143 again, where I quote 106. This part in particular:

even stranger that you actually knew what the SKs name was without having to check that.

This isn't strange at all. I bought the movie just to re-acquaint myself with the characters, why is it strange to think he might have done the same (or had seen it more recently than I had?) And besides, even before re-watching the movie, the only ones I recalled were Captain Shakespeare (because of the 'captain' in his name) and Lord Septimus (because of the 'Septimus' in his name, meaning he was the seventh brother out of Primus, Secondus, Tertius, Quadrius, Quintus, Sextus, and Septimus). It's not a stretch at all to believe that he remembered that even without watching the movie again (because I did), and it's even easier to believe it if he DID watch the movie again, (like I did). Maybe this only strikes

me

as odd, but I hardly think all this discussion is necessary for an FoS which I've already explained was only part of a blanket suspicion statement.

Anyway, that is the 'extra' reason I found that TNM was trying to give to vote Magna, and THAT'S why I thought (and still think) he's probably scum.

I also don't see where you (RC) are getting a FOS of Zang from, since you seem to agree with his town v town assessment.

Again, read the above where I talk about FoSing.

RC's vote on TNM looks really terrible to me. He says TNM is omgusing him and then votes TNM, which really just looks like a cop out.

Why? I've explained why I voted him.

But your defense of TNM is noted.

I think I'm recognizing a pattern. Anyone else see it? Rev up that old _______, and let's get to choppin' down these trees!

RC then says he'll vote Kdub for a pretty bad reason. RC and Zang look like possible buddies to me. Right now they're about equal scumminess to me as well.

How is voting Kdub (for misrepping me

repeatedly

) a bad reason? I look forward to your response, because I certainly can't see a problem with that. Notice: He shut up and stopped misrepping me. Hint: That's a good thing.

And how are you seeing a connection between me and Zang? I was only pointing out that

nobody had a convincing argument on him.

Show me a convincing argument that he is scum, and that's where my vote will be. Honest.

Ok, so now you think me and Jack are scum as well? How many people are you suspicious of? 7? 8?

I named who I was suspicious of. You and TNM.

Stop

misrepping me and saying I was pointing to you being scum. I said that what you did was possible scum distancing. I am noting these things as I see them, and when I ISO myself later, I can make connections based on my observations. Apparently that's a foreign concept to you. Maybe you think I should just keep my suspicions and thoughts to myself?

Yeah, cause THAT'S really pro-town.

RC's flailing around is pretty scummy.

I'm not flailing. If you want flailing, look at TNM.

But out of curiosity, why do you think I look scummy? You haven't really provided a reason yet other than sheeping and copying questions from Kdub and Faraday, whose questions I have already answered.

RC, your points against me are terrible as well.

Charter's reason(s):
post 126: Zang's dismissal of the argument as town v town is scummy. Any way you slice it Zang is scummy.

Really? Any way you slice it, Zang is scummy? Remember, at this point, Zang has only posted 118! How do you expect me or anyone to follow your reasoning for the rest of your argument there? The logic is nonexistent! This blows my mind! Also of note:

You selectively didn't quote where I explained my argument.

Since you are claiming I selectively quoted you, here is the full quote (minus the unrelated stuff about Magna/Jack):

Zang's dismissal of the argument as town v town is scummy. Any way you slice it Zang is scummy, whether it is a town v town fight or town v scum or something else. Of course Zang doesn't say why he thinks it's town v town. So my guess is that he knows at least one of them isn't mafia, so it's a really poor attempt at town points if one of them dies.

vote Zang

Ok first off, Zang explained why he thought it was town vs town in posts 118 and 127. I mentioned that in my last post, in response to peanutman's 147! But you probably aren't thoroughly reading my posts are you? More scum points for you.

But the most disturbing of my 'terrible points against you' is this: Zang had STILL only posted ONE POST (118) that related to the Magna/Jack thing when you posted 126! How does that

one post

lead you to say

"Any way you slice it, Zang is scummy"

??? Especially after you were just about to vote for Jack?

---

Anyone wondering about my motives for other actions: ISO me and actually

read

my posts instead of skimming them. I put a lot of thought into them usually. You'll find out that *gasp*

I actually splain why I do most stuff.

...

Did anyone else notice in his reply to what I said that totallynotmafia

COMPLETELY IGNORED

my request to provide decent reasoning for his vote on Zang? He totally skipped that -- and went straight to more OMGUS against me.

Which is

exactly

why my vote is staying on him.


I am looking forward to seeing what Mr. Bean and Starbuck have to say about this, and I'd also like to hear more from CallMeLiam and Peanutman.


-------------------

tl;dr?

F%CK YOU! READ THE POST! ANSWER THE QUESTIONS.

[ReaperCharlie]

Blast! Ninja'd!

[ReaperCharlie]

1) voted someone based on things that had been said repeatedly (and were BASED on zang saying he thought two people were town without saying why (except he did later which you haven't))
2) doing a bunch of analysis which is fine and all but pads out the post which is lacking on the scumhunting front

1)First of all, I don't feel that I'm not allowed to vote for someone just because someone else provided similar reasoning in a previous vote. Also, the questions that I asked, I had not seen in a previous post.

First of all, how does magna become town because there's a weak case on him? Second of all, could you please explain how you've concluded that Jack is "more of a misguided townie than a scumbag"?

My first one, you, Jack, did ask a similar question in 141. However, I don't believe anyone had questioned how he determined Jack was more of a misguided townie.
2) I was answering Magna's question about whether motivating the Tracker was the best town choice. I felt it was best to look at all the options and determine which would be best. As I was doing so, I thought the exercise would be useful for all of town. Therefore, instead of just agreeing that motivating the tracker is best without explanation like some people did, I put visible effort in answering the question. So it's not IIoA, but rather an answer to a question.

@Jack, could you explain the timeline of posts 129 and 130. I have a reason that I will explain later. However, did you post 129 (the vote), get the call and then post 130? Or were you writing 129, got a call, posted just the vote, and then made an addition V/LA post? Or did it happen some other way? Please explain. Also, please answer this:

Did you not think his (my "who to motivate") post was helpful?

@Reaper Charlie, if you had quoted my whole vote post, you would have seen my questions that I asked of him that set the tone for the vote. Basically, the rationale for him declaring the argument "town vs. town" is either ill-thought out or unsubstantiated (needs to be explained further). The fact that he threw out the claim (already declaring two people town so early on) with next to no valid supporting arguments was worthy of the vote.

Next up, reading players in iso.

This

is why peanutman is on my town list. Anyone who disagrees is obvscum.

And while I agree that Zang's comment may have been ill-thought-out AND unsubstantiated, he did later substantiate it (posts 118 and 127, respectively). He didn't back off from his decision, and that's pretty much the

only

reason why I think he was worth 'sticking my neck out for', if that's what you want to call it. Otherwise I would have hopped on the wagon too, which would have been the EASY thing to do. But I didn't think what he did was inherently scummy.

Anyway, think about it. If I was scum MYSELF, there is no way I would stick my neck out for someone who I thought was town, and ESPECIALLY not for someone who I knew was scum. (I know, I know. Insert WIFOM here).

But seeing as Zang hasn't done much to defend himself since, and I'm the only one doing anything for him, it's rapidly becoming less helpful for me to do so. And people are getting suspicious of me for it, so I'm done with it for now. I've already said everything there is to say on the matter.

If by chance there is something I haven't mentioned, let me know and I will answer it.

[ReaperCharlie]

Fine, maybe I'm reading too much into everything, and posting long posts analyzing everything is just my way of combating being clueless and knowing nothing. It helps me to think out loud. But since you guys hate that, here, maybe this is easier.

Good list:

peanutman

Semi-good list:

Jack
Faraday

Neutral list:

Starbuck
Mr. Bean
CallMeLiam

Don't trust list:

Zang
Kdub
MagnaofIllusion

Lynch list:

charter
totallynotmafia

Yes, I don't trust people very easily. Especially since I have no reason to and everyone is jumping on everyone else's back.

Read my posts though. They'll clear up a lot of stuff for you. I put effort into them for a reason.


@ Starbuck. Marine Corps E-3. What's AE?

[ReaperCharlie]

RC, I really don't find listing who you think is pro-town to be very helpful at all, as this just gives scum bulls eyes for people to take out. Please stop.

Wait. Wait. You're saying that I shouldn't be listing who I think is town? You don't think forming a central core of pro-town individuals who we can 'trust' in and/or rally around is useful? Why not? Because scum are already gonna kill who they think is the most pro-town. At least polarizing those who are able to be polarized into 'good' or 'bad' categories gives us something to go off.

Besides, if I keep my opinions to myself, how can anyone know what I am thinking? Isn't the point of discussion to DISCUSS things?

Btw, who are your top 3 picks for town and scum at this point?

Your huge posts ultimately contain very little information outside of this and some very weak cases on people and the white noise you've been generating so far isn't helping the town.

You're saying analysis is not pro-town?

I understand that my posts probably shouldn't be

so

gargantuan, but... sheesh. Looks like everyone else is just walking around and saying "This is scummy, that's scummy, ... that one's REALLY scummy..." like they're in a grocery store or something.

It's just the way I play. I overanalyze. It's my blessing, it's my curse

[ReaperCharlie]

So you can’t be sure whether you aren’t writing clearly or if Kdub is purposely twisting your words. But you will switch your vote to him if he does it again. And that thing, which you are indicating is scummy, could just be your inability to write in a clear manner.

I hate it when people misrepresent the spirit of what I am trying to say, and pick apart the technical manner I use to say it in order to try to paint me a color that I'm not. If in my often-overanalytical huff I speak in a confusing manner, hey, I'll admit to that. It happens more than I'd like to admit. But that's now how I saw it in that case.

You were not suspicious of Zang but of the attention he was getting. So you threw down 3 FoS in a row at the people you were most suspicious of. These FoSs were –

FoS: MagnaofIllusion
FoS: totallynotmafia
FoS: Zang

So you were and weren’t suspicious of Zang at the same time?

No.

You FOSed Zang to show suspicion on other players?

No.

What are you trying to say?

Broken down into layman's terms: "Oooohh, look! People are arguing. Let's blow this thing wide open and get some good discussion going! Go go gadget MASS-FoS!" *sproing*

[ReaperCharlie]

RC is throwing accusations around like crazy looking for what will stick, is the impression I get from him. He's trying to find out who he can string up, not find scum.

Not really. I don't believe I'm voting for anyone at the moment. Just stirring the pot.

Like I said in my above post, stimulation of discussion on day 1 is essential, otherwise scum skates by, either by posting little to nothing, or by flat out lurking entirely. In my experience, day 1 play is a lot more important than a lot of people like to think on this site.

I was on another site before this one where they'd let most day 1's pass with a no-lynch, because the popular opinion was that you couldn't learn anything on day 1 anyways because 'nobody had been killed yet'. WTF? It made no sense. That's when PR's get killed, or the townies who might actually do scumhunting get killed before the chance to do scumhunting.

If you think my means of stimulating discussion isn't the most pro-town, that's fine. It's the way I do things. Volatile behavior often works. Your mind may eventually change about liking how I do things, but I'm not counting on it. Either way, I'm not worried about whether you like my particular brand of scumhunting. It works for me, and that's what counts.

I don't like how RC is saying how anyone who doesn't agree with Peanutman is obvscum.

Do you not agree that he is the most pro-town player at this point?

[ReaperCharlie]

Ok, now I'm getting some town vibes, strangely... Not enough to take my vote off, but this apparent town-rage has me wondering. I haven't played with you enough to figure out whether you omgus a lot or not, but I'll meta you and get back to you on it though. Any previous games of note that you can point me to? I see you don't have a wiki.

was V/LA. Sue me, I'm in the military, it's required that I be gone sometimes. Haha

The V/LA bit would be fine normally, it's the fact that you came back and complained about activity levels without actually having contributed yourself. To me it seems like a way of trying to look town and I've seen it been done by scum before.

Who hasn't seen that? That's scum 101.

But, have I not been contributing thus far? I was tired when I got back from a tough few days of doing reel man stuffz! That is not quote-wall time, that is sleep time, savvy?

Btw, I notice you haven't been jumping on Starbuck for doing the exact same thing as I did. Tunnel vision, much?

I still don't understand why looking for extra reasons why someone is scummy is scummy. Isn't that the whole point of this game, to try and pick up on scummy behaviour?

To me it looked like you were trying too hard to paint people as scum.

That's what it looked to me like YOU were doing. That pung my scumdar and I called you on it. You becoming Mr. Super-Defensive about it is still making me wonder, but your town-rage is helping somewhat. Keep it up.

Then you fosed Zang right after you you defended him.

Now to me, when you fos three people like that after poor reasoning, you're trying to look like you're actually scum-hunting and perhaps even (very weakly) distancing yourself from a fellow scum-buddy.

Read my posts, that might help. I've explained this twice or three times, not gonna do it again just because you didn't read it the first few times.

You were quite happy with following the crowd on MagnaofIllusion, and then as soon as soon as I put an FoS on you, you found THREE 'reasons' to switch your vote to me. Crappy reasons, but w/e. So it WAS an OMGUS vote, among other things (yes, I acknowledge that your point of me mostly fluffing up until then was pretty true. It was RVS and I was V/LA). In order to get you talking instead of just inserting sideways jabs at others without any commitment to an argument yourself, I whacked you on the head with a foam mallet to wake you up.

Also, I still think what you did is scummy (what I indicated in my post where I originally FoS'd you).

You crying OMGUS just solidified your scumminess to me, as it's just another poor reason to try and paint me as scummy.

Why did that solidify anything? You're still doing the same thing. You're tunneling on me, quite obviously. You have barely addressed anyone else's points or talked about anyone else ever since I FoS'd you.

Also, the constant threatening to vote people just makes you look even more scummy.

Really? Why?

Because why would town feel the need to threaten others with their vote if they act a certain way? If people do something you think is scummy you vote for them, you don't let scum know what those things are otherwise they'll know not to do them. By threatening people I think you're trying to scare people off of suspecting/voting for you.

Wait! Stop the train. This is a good point. That would make sense...

...except for that I was more worried about you at the moment, so my vote was still on you.

This clutching at straws seems like you're trying your hardest to paint people scummy,

You don’t see determining that I am Lord Sept. simply based on a line you find “strange” as grasping at straws?

You still haven't answered this.

Magna, the main reason for suspecting you is because you pointed out in your post that you were going back to look whether the SK could be tracked, which as Jack said looked as if you were trying to make it look as if you weren' familiar with the SK role. I added that I thought it was strange that you knew the name of the SK, as I for one didn't even remember the SK had a name as I hadn't read the rules since before the drafting began. I assumed you hadn't just reread the rules either as you had to go back and check if the SK could be tracked.

I think this is the first time since you started omgustunneling on me that you addressed someone else's questions of you. Though I must say I'm disappointed that the only reason you addressed it is because I specifically had to notice it for you and ask you to respond to it.

RC, what exactly are these "extra reasons" you're seeing that TNM gave for voting Magna? I don't see anything.

Read 143 again, where I quote 106. This part in particular:

even stranger that you actually knew what the SKs name was without having to check that.

This isn't strange at all. I bought the movie just to re-acquaint myself with the characters, why is it strange to think he might have done the same (or had seen it more recently than I had?) And besides, even before re-watching the movie, the only ones I recalled were Captain Shakespeare (because of the 'captain' in his name) and Lord Septimus (because of the 'Septimus' in his name, meaning he was the seventh brother out of Primus, Secondus, Tertius, Quadrius, Quintus, Sextus, and Septimus). It's not a stretch at all to believe that he remembered that even without watching the movie again (because I did), and it's even easier to believe it if he DID watch the movie again, (like I did). Maybe this only strikes

me

as odd, but I hardly think all this discussion is necessary for an FoS which I've already explained was only part of a blanket suspicion statement.

Anyway, that is the 'extra' reason I found that TNM was trying to give to vote Magna, and THAT'S why I thought (and still think) he's probably scum.

So why didn't you say that when you originally FOSed me? And that's fair enough that Magna may have just watched the movie and that's why he knew Lord Septimus was the SK (I haven't seen the movie for ages so I don't know how obvious it is that Lord Septimus is the SK), but that's something he can defend himself, it's not like he's going to be lynched without getting the chance to defend himself.

Maybe I

should

have said it at the beginning. But it was a pretty long explanation for what seemed like a very little observation. After all, it was only a hunch. But even if I would have said all of that earlier, would you have listened?

Did anyone else notice in his reply to what I said that totallynotmafia

COMPLETELY IGNORED

my request to provide decent reasoning for his vote on Zang? He totally skipped that -- and went straight to more OMGUS against me.

Are you talking about Zang or Magna? Appealling to others by saying stuff like "Did anyone else notice...?" just makes me think you're trying your hardest to get others to jump on my wagon (as if that wasn't already obvious).

At this point I would be extremely surprised if you're not scum.

TunnelOMGUSers always think that. Until they take the blinders off and begin to look around. Here: https://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?ti ... nel_vision

If somehow you are town, your scum-hunting in this game has been atrocious.

I'm getting reactions and starting discussions. Remind me again how that is bad?

Your attacks on me so far have been akin to a third grader in the playground: "You're scum because you voted me after I FOSed you first! OMG you didn't answer one of my questions!"

Um... ad hominem? may I ask why you think that's even necessary?

You sure are getting antsy over a single vote on you, TNM. Any reason why?

Not to mention your list of who's been naughty and who's been nice.

You don't think my list is good?

[ReaperCharlie]

Promise to all Stardust Mafia'ers: Last wall for a while

@ charter 182: Interesting. I agree that it seems like a backtrack.

@ Zang 186: The definition of 'town vs town' isn't exactly up for negotiation. But if it means something else to you, why didn't you say so before? And most importantly: are you agreeing that you were backtracking?

@ Jack 187: Sarcasm? Please explain.

@ whoever still hasn't read my posts (all of them): They're useful. I promise.

@ whoever isn't being active: Be active!

[ReaperCharlie]

Your writing style not-withstanding pointing out what I perceive as a direct contradiction in your statement isn’t “picking apart the technical manner … in order to paint me a color that I’m not”. And how can I “misrepresent” the spirit of what you are trying to say? If you aren’t writing clearly no-one should be expected to be a mind-reader regarding your statements.

The only problem was that it was not a direct contradiction at all, and it was only his incorrect interpretation of what I said that caused it to appear to be.

You seem trying quite so hard to say in no uncertain terms that you are doing town a favor by creating discussion.

In a word, yep!
What's your point? Do you disagree?

Town needs more direct scum-hunting and less mass FOSing and strangely worded posts.

You disapprove of my scumhunting style? Oh noes! My feelings are almost hurt!

And at this point I sense you are more worked up by TNM's vote on you than vice versa.

Nah, I wouldn't say so. I know that his vote is only an OMGUS. But along your own line of reasoning, I want him to

actually

scumhunt, too. And do you not agree that tunnel vision is one of the worst dampers on effective scumhunting?


Also, what is your reason for voting me? Because my posts are strangely worded? Or because you were one of the people I FoS'd earlier? Or is it something that makes sense.
WIFOM aside, what motivation (if I was scum) do you think I would have for sticking my neck out to rip people off of a quickwagon on Zang, and being willing to deal with the sh*tstorm that would inevitably follow? Whether or not Zang is scum, if

I

was scum, there is

no

good reason for that action.



Also also, since you don't seem to be against read-lists, who are

your

town and scum reads?

[ReaperCharlie]

V/LA Starting now until Tuesday May 25th.

...






... it happens, though.

[ReaperCharlie]

Your activities themselves should speak for you as to whether you are ‘helping’ town or not. Constantly stating you are is suspect in my eyes.

Agreed. But I tend to expect a lot more out of others than I do out of myself. I'm a lazy mofo when it comes to playing online games.

please clarify what exactly the style you are using is. Is it randomly accusing or baiting others for reactions?

That's a big part of it. - Thought process: Do random stuff > get people to suspect you > get scum to hop on your bandwagon for thin reason > nail them for exactly that (among other things). - It's pretty foolhardy in newbie games, simply because nothing you say or do after that can convince them otherwise (I realized that in the one and only newbie game I played [941], during which scum won a perfect victory because the townies were clueless). But it's safer at a higher level. Basically, it plants seeds of distrust everywhere, and kick-starts the game. I hate games that take forever to wind up to full speed. And on day one, unless a good solid lynch vote is reached that I am confident in, I end up with a bitter taste in my mouth, and I feel like the day was wasted. If they turn up scum, yay, but I feel like it was more guesswork than actual logical analysis.

(btw, this is me actually

explaining

, instead of just saying 'check my meta, I always do this' -- which I consider to be a complete cop-out)

Also, what is your reason for voting me?

1. Your posts are unclear and contradictory. Your triple FOS exercise is a most recent example of that. You state you were trying to open up the game discussion by drawing heat away from Zang, who you didn’t find suspicious. But the only people you FOSed in that post were Zang, myself and TNM. None of whom where pressuring or voting for Zang. How is FOSing Zang going to pull heat off him? Your post directly contradicts your stated intentions. Consistency and clarity are necessary for town to successfully hunt Scum.

2. The tone and method by which you go after those who question you is Anti-town at best. Threatening to vote Kdub based on a situation that might be solely due to your own communication style is a first example. Your inference that I OMGUS voted for you simply because you FoSed me is another example. Attacking the accuser is a tactic I often see in scum.

3. The direct change in your playstyle due to criticism. By your own admission you fluffed your way up until 134. Charter and Kdub call you on it and suddenly you go into overdrive with posting volume. Inconsistency again, IMO.

4. Your immediate Town read on Peanut and assertion that anyone who didn’t share the read is scummy is suspicious on it’s own.

1. I wasn't originally trying to pull heat off Zang, per se. It may have been (and perhaps still is) deserved. I've posted already, explaining why I did the mass-FoS. You seem like a pretty smart guy, based on your posts. But if it's beyond you why I think that a semi/pseudo-random mass-FoS is useful, I'm not gonna waste time worrying about it.

2. How is it anti town to dislike misrepresentation of what I posted? Unless addressed strongly, it may continue. Unless addressed prominently, it may cause people's opinions to shift in a manner that my post did not originally affect them to.

3. How has my playstyle changed? We got out of the fluff-RVS and I started contributing. Why do you think it's scummy to say that I started contributing? That's exactly what I did, lol! (in my own way).

4. Why? You yourself said you believe peanutman is one of the most likely to be town, as it says below.

Also also, since you don't seem to be against read-lists, who are your town and scum reads?

This early in the game having a Town read is almost impossible in my eyes. I’d say that the players I am most leaning towards being town are Farady, charter, and peanutman.

As for player’s I’d lean towards being scum (aside from yourself, who I voted) are Jack, fitz (due to Mr. Bean solely), and starbuck.

How is having a town read almost impossible? And you picked the same guys as me lol, well, except for Jack.

And not to seem

too

contentious, (:twisted:) but you seem to be picking out Jack because he started the mini-wagon on you with his vote, and Mr.Bean and Starbuck due to inactivity alone.

So I have to ask: What are your opinions on Zang? Do you think he's backtracking? Do you think he's scum? I am personally beginning to see a pattern I don't like in Zang. That is where my attention is at the moment.

Meanwhile, I'm not nearly as suspicious of totallynotmafia as I was earlier. His last few posts seem like genuine town-posting to me (read: self-righteous town-rage, which I have seen a bunch of times and personally consider to be a town-tell, wifom aside) so I am gonna unvote him for now....

Unvote

I would like to hear more from Zang, fitz, Jack, and Kdub. (all 4-letter names, lol).
I would also like to hear from you more when you return, Starbuck. Thanks a mil!

[ReaperCharlie]

Charlie:
One thing I do not understand is why you feel so strongly that peanutman is town. Looking at his two game posts, I don't think he's said anything scummy, but I definitely wouldn't confidently say he's town. I am puzzled by the level of your conviction about him.

Call it gut.

---

RC, just out of interest, could you please quote the parts from my posts which you think are "self-righteous town-rage"?

Here's some. Not all self-righteous, and not all rage. But enough of both to convince me to unvote you. Anyway, here:

Uh....what the? Are you serious? This has got to be the worst reason I have ever seen for suspecting someone! I just can't understand why you think adding other things you find strange about someones actions is scummy....and even if you do think that, all I added was that I found it strange that he already knew the SK was Lord Septimus yet he had to go back and check (or so he claims) if the SK could be tracked, and you call that "trying to give as many reasons as possible so that everyone will want to lynch him"???

You crying OMGUS just solidified your scumminess to me, as it's just another poor reason to try and paint me as scummy.

@RC: So now tunnelling is the new word from the wiki you're using to try and make it look like I don't have legitimate reasons for voting you? I admit I've tunnelled town in the past and I try to be more wary of it now

The thing I don't like about you list is that you've used words like "Good" and "Don't trust" instead of "town" and "scum". Also, the fact that some of the people down the list are no doubt there because they suspected you.

[ReaperCharlie]

(though I suppose that's more subjective)

Yeah, pretty much. Obviously you wouldn't be thinking 'hmmm I'm gonna post a town-rage post', you'd just post it whatever way you were gonna, and I just happened to interpret it as that.

And why would I need an excuse to change my mind?

[ReaperCharlie]

unvote, vote Jack

Jack has actually risen to scummier in my mind than Zang, and Zang is already at about 75% chance of being scum.

If you look at Jack's early posts, where he goes after Magna calling him the SK, he's posting frequently and apparently scumhunting. Now that Zang and RC are coming under fire, he's said virtually nothing. He's weakly defended Zang and I don't think he's mentioned RC at all. Now Jack isn't doing jack. It looks pretty apparent that Jack was hoping he could quickly push through a non mafia lynch on Magna, and now that that's fallen through, he's doing absolutely nothing. I suppose waiting to see which way the wind blows before he commits to anything.

All in all, I'm still very suspicious of Zang and to a lesser degree RC, despite not thinking any of his recent posts are protown, but based on Jack and Zang's actions, I could see RC as town, but not Jack or Zang.

Glad you're coming around to my point of view now. I agree with you about Jack initially, I'll re-read him.

@ Starbuck 222: Wait, what? Why would I go out of my way to be distracting? Have I not made sense, in my own convoluted little way?

P.S. it makes no sense at all to put myself in the spotlight as scum. Get with it.

[ReaperCharlie]

RC is killing me with his wallposts and I don't feel up to reading that + rereading magna right now.

What a cop out.

[ReaperCharlie]

I was just doing a re-read on Jack. I get good vibes from some of his posts, but then in

post 97

, he says something strange which I missed the first time, but which jumped out at me this time...

He says

Faraday is probably a townie

. Which is always odd at this early point in the game, admittedly I've done it myself. But it's especially odd because, at this point, Faraday's entire posting record ONLY INCLUDED the following:

if the PYP games are anything to go by I'll do shockingly bad in this draft.

nice playerlist btw. looking forward to this game, never played a smalltown before. the roles in the first post are really interesting too.

I'll be a tracker it's my favourite role.

If Mr Bean happens to pick tracker I'll take role absorber.

Meh your chances of surviving are increased but being vanilla in a game full of powerroles to me isn't that fun anyway. In a normal game it's different obviously.

Vote Jack.

He's scum.

He gets a hot blonde chick and I get a goat. Wow.

I don't think it's going to be very useful to direct actions for the first night. I think a mass action claim day 2 may be potentially useful though, but we should probably wait and see.

Faraday didn't post again until 111, which was well after Jack's 97.

Now, normally, I wouldn't say anything about this, because I did it myself (called peanutman town after only a very few posts). But I think the way I said it was key: I said "RC's Town List" which meant it was my opinion.

But what Jack said was "if Faraday is a townie, which he probably is" which has 3 conceivable (and likely measurable) effects:

1. due to the backwards way in which the sentence was constructed, players could easily not comprehend what they're reading. this in turn could subliminally direct their supposition about Faraday's alignment. I don't think that he thought of that, but it definitely works out this way in hindsight. (Not to mention, I've realized that this is why I missed it the first time).

2. the way he says it, he's not just trying to inform people that it's his own opinion, like I did with peanutman. He's just putting it right out there that Faraday is probably a townie. Not quite fact, but not quite his opinion. This looks scummy too.

3. One of Jack's 5 previous posts was a vote on him. I've seen numerous times that a townie (player X) has suspected scum (player Y), and then the scum somehow flip it around and say "player X is town because of such and such" and then all of a sudden like magic, X doesn't suspect Y nearly as much any longer. It's a clever trick for the following reason: if X is trying to scumhunt more because he feels the need to prove himself as a townie, he is looking for approval. He has a subconscious need to respect the opinion of everyone who calls him town, and then when a scum player calls him town, his opinion of that scummer automatically raises because he trusts that person's opinion about himself. Not the oldest trick in the book, but it's always been a good one, and works even on non-newbies.




Maybe I'm making a mountain out of a mole-hill. But I don't think so.

Vote: Jack

[ReaperCharlie]

More on Jack:

Having played with zang before I haven't seen anything to make me think he's scum.

I skim read that set of giant posts above. Will post again soon explaining why magna is scum.

This irks me for two reasons, the obvious one about Zang (doesn't think he's scummy, even though a lot of others seem to), and that he's about to explain soon why magna is scum.

But then only a few posts later he backtracks and says magna is probably town:

It's possible that magna is town and simply jumps on the rhetoric-train for no good reason.

@magna: it was inconsequential to whether the tracker should be motivated

And this one also strikes me as pretty devious. Read it and I'll tell you why:

Yes. I very much buy that that is how Zang was using the term town vs town.

This statement is clearly worded in a way that could be grossly misread as sarcasm; I think the post was intended to be suggestive of sarcasm, possibly so that he could backtrack either way about Zang later on, if he needed to in order to look innocent.

[ReaperCharlie]

How, on Day 1 where information available is at it’s leanest, do you differentiate between town with founded suspicions and scum with thin reasons?

Case by case basis. I will admit, it's not a popular tactic. Lots of people are afraid of being mislynched by overzealous townies, but I have found throughout my experience that Day 1 is one of the most likely places for scum to make a slip, and I play accordingly.

If your original intention was not to pull off heat from Zang you can’t defend your actions and say “What motiviation would I have (as scum) to stop a quicklynch on Zang?”. You’ve just said that you didn’t have that motivation, that it was only an unintended side effect.

Right. It wasn't my intention to deflect any heat from him, but it seemed to do that. Soon afterwards though it turned into a sh*tstorm and I was the one being attacked. Maybe that was smart, maybe it wasn't. We'll see.

you are missing the key reason I don’t like the change – it happened (IMO) as a direct result of criticism from other players (Charter and Kdub). It’s similar to a player who makes what is perceived as a poor vote and when called on it immediately unvotes instead of defending their position.

Yeah, I agree. It does look that way. But that's not really something I can defend against, I'll just have to let my play since then speak for itself.

Why? You yourself said you believe peanutman is one of the most likely to be town, as it says below.
How is having a town read almost impossible? And you picked the same guys as me lol, well, except for Jack.

For someone concerned with misreps you’ve chosen to take an interesting interpretation of my list. I said peanut was on of those “I am most leaning towards being town”. I don’t have a solid town read on anyone. This is mostly a gut reaction which is based on playstyles. For me a more solid read comes from continued observation and the results of lynches / nightkills. That you say so quickly into day 1 “anyone who disagrees with peanut is Obvscum” makes little sense to me.

I don't believe I misrepped you. The 'obvscum' comment was sorta a joke; I thought it was obvious, maybe not so much.

I have my suspicions of Jack based on his relatively content free posting style and lack of followthrough with anything having to do with serious scum-hunting. As for fitz and starbuck my suspiciouns generally do revolve on their lack of activity. It’s hard to judge a player when they aren’t posting anything to analyze.

Agreed.

The passive-aggressive way in which you seem to be asserting that my initial suspicions aren’t valid is noted.

I never said they weren't valid. I respect your opinion and everyone else's on who is or isn't scum. If I 'seem to be asserting' that view, let me assure you that I am not.

Zang is playing similar to what I’ve seen in the past so I don’t have immediate raised hackles regarding his ‘town versus town’ comment. I don’t see it as backtracking. I think, if anything, it’s a poor language choice which I have seen him repeatedly make in the past. That said I don’t put much stock in meta. If anything I’d like more content from him since most his posts are defense of the town versus town issue. Obviously if I was leaning to his being scum this early I’d have put him on my list, wouldn’t I?

I agree with you on most of this, except I've never played with Zang before. Any patterns I have seen I am basing only on this game.

Please, eludicate on this ‘pattern’ you are seeing.

I think I'll sit on that for a while yet. I want to see what he has to say about a few things first.



Also, I want Jack to respond to my case instead of strawmanning it.

[ReaperCharlie]

Also, I want Jack to respond to my case instead of strawmanning it.

Really I don't see Jack as strawmanning your case. Strawmanning requires someone to actually take a piece of a case and attack it as invalid, incorrectly concluding that all other pieces are invalid also.

What he is doing is more the "Ostrich head in the sand" approach where he ignores it completely in hopes it goes away.

That said both methods are pretty bad responses.

What do YOU think of my case against Jack?

[ReaperCharlie]

Shoot.

[ReaperCharlie]

vote: ReaperCharlie

I'll explain it more tomorrow afternoon when I get chance, but right now it's based off a combination of gut and a real dislike of his walls of text, both in terms of content and sheer volume of noise.

Also I really dislike it every time he gets snippy about people v\la

Um... this is a case in point on why I dislike people going V/LA: You vote me, putting me at L-2, leaving an easy chance for scum to quick-hammer me if you don't come back tomorrow.

If you have time to come in and post that much, why don't you have time to read my case against Jack? Do you think it lacks merit? This is idiotic. The fact that I haven't been quicklynched already means that the scum (or at least some of them) are already on my wagon.

And f@#$ me for trying to make sense, and posting long posts with my thought process. Maybe I should just active lurk instead, like Jack has been doing.

I can't believe nobody is paying attention to Jack. He still hasn't answered my questions.

[ReaperCharlie]

What nonsense? Please answer my posts 224 and 225. I've posted them again here for easy reference.

I was just doing a re-read on Jack. I get good vibes from some of his posts, but then in

post 97

, he says something strange which I missed the first time, but which jumped out at me this time...

He says

Faraday is probably a townie

. Which is always odd at this early point in the game, admittedly I've done it myself. But it's especially odd because, at this point, Faraday's entire posting record ONLY INCLUDED the following:

if the PYP games are anything to go by I'll do shockingly bad in this draft.

nice playerlist btw. looking forward to this game, never played a smalltown before. the roles in the first post are really interesting too.

I'll be a tracker it's my favourite role.

If Mr Bean happens to pick tracker I'll take role absorber.

Meh your chances of surviving are increased but being vanilla in a game full of powerroles to me isn't that fun anyway. In a normal game it's different obviously.

Vote Jack.

He's scum.

He gets a hot blonde chick and I get a goat. Wow.

I don't think it's going to be very useful to direct actions for the first night. I think a mass action claim day 2 may be potentially useful though, but we should probably wait and see.

Faraday didn't post again until 111, which was well after Jack's 97.

Now, normally, I wouldn't say anything about this, because I did it myself (called peanutman town after only a very few posts). But I think the way I said it was key: I said "RC's Town List" which meant it was my opinion.

But what Jack said was "if Faraday is a townie, which he probably is" which has 3 conceivable (and likely measurable) effects:

1. due to the backwards way in which the sentence was constructed, players could easily not comprehend what they're reading. this in turn could subliminally direct their supposition about Faraday's alignment. I don't think that he thought of that, but it definitely works out this way in hindsight. (Not to mention, I've realized that this is why I missed it the first time).

2. the way he says it, he's not just trying to inform people that it's his own opinion, like I did with peanutman. He's just putting it right out there that Faraday is probably a townie. Not quite fact, but not quite his opinion. This looks scummy too.

3. One of Jack's 5 previous posts was a vote on him. I've seen numerous times that a townie (player X) has suspected scum (player Y), and then the scum somehow flip it around and say "player X is town because of such and such" and then all of a sudden like magic, X doesn't suspect Y nearly as much any longer. It's a clever trick for the following reason: if X is trying to scumhunt more because he feels the need to prove himself as a townie, he is looking for approval. He has a subconscious need to respect the opinion of everyone who calls him town, and then when a scum player calls him town, his opinion of that scummer automatically raises because he trusts that person's opinion about himself. Not the oldest trick in the book, but it's always been a good one, and works even on non-newbies.


Maybe I'm making a mountain out of a mole-hill. But I don't think so.

Vote: Jack

More on Jack:

Having played with zang before I haven't seen anything to make me think he's scum.

I skim read that set of giant posts above. Will post again soon explaining why magna is scum.

This irks me for two reasons, the obvious one about Zang (doesn't think he's scummy, even though a lot of others seem to), and that he's about to explain soon why magna is scum.

But then only a few posts later he backtracks and says magna is probably town:

It's possible that magna is town and simply jumps on the rhetoric-train for no good reason.

@magna: it was inconsequential to whether the tracker should be motivated

And this one also strikes me as pretty devious. Read it and I'll tell you why:

Yes. I very much buy that that is how Zang was using the term town vs town.

This statement is clearly worded in a way that could be grossly misread as sarcasm; I think the post was intended to be suggestive of sarcasm, possibly so that he could backtrack either way about Zang later on, if he needed to in order to look innocent.

I know you're online, so... any minute now would be fine.

[ReaperCharlie]

charter doesn't know what a strawman is either.

Reapers arguments are as bad as strawmen though I'll give you guys that. There are obvious benefits to leaving his case unanswered and I intend to take advantage of that.

What's bad about my argument? Answer it, and stop beating around the bush!

I implore you guys: Lynch Jack.

[ReaperCharlie]

Because of the context. You had just posted a few posts earlier saying "Will post again soon why Magna is scum", and then you didn't. You still haven't. You just jumped onto the biggest wagon (mine) and started trying to find reasons to justify being on it. And now you're trying to deflect everything being asked of you in the name of 'obvious benefits to leaving it unanswered', which could only include a few things:

1. Hoping the day will end in a no-lynch if you stall long enough.
2. Hoping nobody will pay attention to me because my wagon is the biggest, and will continue with the votes on me, leaving you lost in the sauce.

Neither of those is pro-town. In fact, they are both ANTI-town. That is why I KNOW you're scum.

[ReaperCharlie]

Faraday: Why is it not scummy to refuse to answer questions about scummy behavior? I think I explained it pretty well in my

post 248

.

[ReaperCharlie]

@ Faraday: Your weak defense of Jack's scummy behavior is noted. Please explain to me how you find it scummy to ANSWER questions (like I have been doing), but you DON'T find it scummy to NOT answer questions (like Jack)? That's pretty backwards.

@ everyone (here's my claim, along with an unabashed Appeal to Emotion):
Please think about it: Why isn't Jack answering my questions? I'm not the only one asking him! Why is Faraday defending Jack's behavior? And why (since they are obviously resisting answering questions) are both Jack

and

Faraday are voting for other people instead of me? Trying to wash their hands of my death when I flip town (which I am)?

[ReaperCharlie]

Wow, even when you finally answer some questions, your answers are poor and evasive for the most part. So...

1. How does the ratio of town/scum mean that Faraday is a townie?

2. Why is it bad to say I have Peanutman pegged as town in my book?

3. Yes, my 'garbage' explains why you're scummy for trying to subtly manipulate the minds of anyone who reads your post without actually examining it. And yes, 'scummy subconscious' is OFTEN the best way to catch scum.

4. Again, "8 townies 4 mafia" isn't a valid reply. Ratio of town/scum is not an answer.

5. The way you said it made it obviously that you were trying to buddy with Faraday. Faraday has now defended you as well, so that's an incontrovertible link between the two of you.

6. Yes, I think it's scummy that you didn't think Zang's backtrack was scummy. My scumlist includes you, Zang, and Faraday.

7. So you think that Magna is possibly town and is just using habitually scummy rhetoric, and that MAY be the reason you suspect him? Apparently I have done the same thing, which is why five votes are on me.

8. The only 'vocal and committed' defense of zang you have ever posted is here:

- "Having played with zang before I haven't seen anything to make me think he's scum."
- "Yes. I very much buy that that is how Zang was using the term town vs town."
- "I would argue that you are misusing 'backtracking' in your accusation of Zang, based on his misuse of 'town vs town'."

-----

So why, if you think I'm scum, aren't you voting for me? You also think charter and Kdub, and you're not voting them either.

You're voting for MagnaofIllusion, who you say is possibly town. Why aren't you voting for who you say you think is SCUM? Explain this madness.

[ReaperCharlie]

I will be V/LA until Friday/Saturday

I don't know which day I will be back on.

How convenient. Now I know you're scum, too.

[ReaperCharlie]

You conveniently disappeared when the heat went off you onto me. Obvscum.

[ReaperCharlie]

[ReaperCharlie]

*reads Jack's post*

*concentrates like Yoda*

"...I... I sense... scum...."

"Yes... yes, I'm sure of it..."

[ReaperCharlie]

Wait so... Jack's vote the hammer? Good job lynching a townie guys.

[ReaperCharlie]

At any rate I want to hear from Jack first.

Don't hold your breath.

[ReaperCharlie]

Oh yeah.

Vote: Jack

I think my reasons from yesterday should stand for themselves.

[ReaperCharlie]

Can nobody else please place a vote until we've at least heard from GroupThink?

You seem pretty interested in protecting Jack here. Why?

And now that Groupthink has weighed in, what do you think of the Jack lynch?

Anyway, it's a lot of speculation at the moment and I think we'll learn a lot more when Jack flips.

And yet here you seem to think that it's an inevitability that Jack will flip.

Not that I disagree with lynching Jack, but you appear to be flip-flopping on whether you want him lynched now or later.

If you aren't striving to lynch scum, you aren't playing pro-town.

[ReaperCharlie]

While we should definitely wait to hear from everyone, this seems like a pretty straightforward situation. If we believe that Magna would not have blocked Jack (and even Jack doesn't think he would have), then clearly one of Jack/Starbuck are lying. If Jack is town (or even if he is the SK, who wouldn't be lying here), then Starbuck is almost certainly scum, and there's a good chance that Charlie is scum as well.

The best plan for town is to lynch starbuck and have me vig reaper. Now, I would like someone (preferably someone voting me) to argue that it is better to lynch me because it is dangerous to give the mafia another kill.

Basically you just want us to just... trust you on this. Um. No.

I think it is almost certain that magna's block was redirected to me. The couldn't have redirected my kill to one of the two dead (because then there would have been no kill). However, if someone knows that they were blocked, they should speak up.

Why would Starbuck redirect magna to you? Listen up, scumboy. Starbucks voting history includes: charter, zang, then me. Why would she (knowing magna was a blocker) redirect him to block you, if she was VOTING FOR ME? That kind of implies that she WANTS ME DEAD. So what you're suggesting DOESN'T MAKE SENSE.

Yes, as scum it would make sense for her not to claim her actions, but then again, perhaps she was v/la as she said she'd be. I assume she didn't expect the day to end so quickly. But then again, you were the one who made sure it did, weren't you?

Obviously, I am still capitally suspicious of you, and even given Starbuck's slip, we can lynch later as she doesn't have an EXTRA KILL to use tonight, like you do. FFS.

It would appear that you just got caught in your own lie (that you were going to kill me last night), and now you're trying to find any possible avenue to cover your arse.

Also, I notice from re-reading your initial skirmish (posts 95-100) on MoI that you seem quite eager to pin the SK role on someone. Is that either because you don't want the label on yourself? Or because you're mafia scum and you are mostly interested in finding the SK because after that killing off the town will be easy with your double night-kill?

And another thing that's still bothering me is why you said this:

It isn't flawed if faraday is a townie, which he probably is.

That makes it very powerful and better than most other choices for motivator. Wasn't thinking about the SK part of it when I said "tracker is good".

You couldn't possibly have known that then. This is a much worse 'slip' than Starbuck's 'abilities' slip.

And if you weren't thinking about the SK, why were you still so certain that the tracker (faraday) was good? There was just no way, because like I said earlier, all he'd posted prior to that was 5 fluff/rvs/in/speculation posts.

No explaining/AtE/AtPing your way out of this one. Die scum.

[ReaperCharlie]

Yawn.

I am not scum

, so how could Starbuck be my scumbuddy?
and, why would you say you'd kill me then not do it?:

It's called lying.

It's what scum do. And it's what you did.

[ReaperCharlie]

Well... now that you say it

that

way... but when I originally read it, it seemed like you were plenty concerned more votes going up on Jack, even though he was (is?) only at L-4.


And no, I'm not going to pounce on your completely valid speculation. Actually, this part of your post is stellar:

I really want to give this more thought...I mean I don't particularly like Jack's posting today anyway, he says SB could have redirected his kill to magna, but that case is impossible as it would have become a protect instead of a kill. I don't know, perhaps Magna DID roleblock Jack but Jack is still scum and it has totally screwed him over. Or perhaps Jack just didn't fully think about his plan to blame not vigging RC on somebody else. Anyway, the day is still early and there's no need to lynch anyone yet.

And I too, would really,

really

like to hear from those who are lurking.

[ReaperCharlie]

There is no way a townie vig does not target RC after saying that.

Ahem. I think you just answered your own question... but... yeah.


Who else is waiting to vote? I see that we have charter, Kdub, me, and Starbuck voting for Jack, while Jack is voting for Starbuck. This leaves the following people still not voting:

totallynotmafia
GroupThink
havingfitz
CallMeLiam
Zang


What's the deal, guys?

We're all looking at you right now and wondering why you're sitting there on your hands, saying nothing. It's making me wonder where your thumbs are.

[ReaperCharlie]

Hmmm... while re-reading, I notice that CallMeLiam pops his head in and says "Jack is obviously scum" and "I'd be perfectly happy lynching Jack today"... but then fails to

vote: Jack

.

????

[ReaperCharlie]

If I am lynched, the sensor will die tonight. The bodyguard will be redirected.

Mmmmmmm, I bet that's a tasty WIFOMsandwich™ you're munching.

@kdub: unless someone had claimed to be blocked. There would be no way for me to count on someone not having a claim to back them. Either starbuck or magna's targets could have counterclaimed in the case of a no kill.

So are you still suggesting that Starbuck redirected MagnaOfIllusion's block to you? Because I can't see a reason why Magna would block you by himself: he was on my wagon yesterday longer than anyone but totallynotmafia. Obviously he wanted me dead, and since he flipped town, there's no reason for him to have blocked you.

And Starbuck was V/LA, so how could she have redirected you? (unless she was lying about being V/LA and lying again about not being around to use her actions?)

Bottom line: We must assume numerous things and blindly believe your imaginative explanation of events (which is quite a stretch, at best) in order to get even a hint at thinking you're town.

Even when all evidence points to the opposite.

[ReaperCharlie]

RC I didn't vote Jack because we still have a week to play and don't want a lynch to go through before I can comment more like it did last time.

Ok, you posted this two days ago, and we have nothing since. Do you even *plan* to comment before the deadline gets here? Or are you holding off voting for anyone just on principle? ...BUS HIM ALREADY. Thanks.

---

Horrible hangover

Help me understand: You care enough to come and post when you're hung over, but you don't care enough to come and post when you're not? How does that help us scumhunt? You're on my sh*t list now, too.

---

Sorry..combination of little internet time and waiting to see how the claims panned out. I would place a vote on Jack but am not interested in the day ending too quickly...especially with as you point out...several people awol today.

Do you have an ETA on contributing to the game?

BTW...v/LA until tomorrow night.

According to simple arithmetic, you should be back by now.

Any contribution or effort from any of these three would be divine. I'd even accept a standalone vote.


I mean... F&$%!

[ReaperCharlie]

Feel free to ignore my question(s), hf. It's ok, buddy.

[ReaperCharlie]

I've been recently told by my hubby that he wants a divorce,

oh sh**! ...sorry

---

And yes, havingfitz, it was sarcasm, but I want an answer.

---

Ok well, since we know Magna was town, lets see who he suspected: Jack, fitz, Starbuck. Magna was killed by the SK. Let's think about this: Either Jack is scum and Starbuck is SK, or the other way around. Since Jack has the extra nightkill, I'd say we should lynch him today, then leave Starbuck for tomorrow. But either way, if you're not voting for one of them, you're either scum or retarded.

*looks at totallynotmafia, havingfitz, GroupThink, & CallMeLiam*

[ReaperCharlie]

QFT

[ReaperCharlie]

Guys we still have a week left until deadline and we have somebody on L-2 so what's with everyone getting so anxious?

I think I speak for charter too, when I say that:

It's not that we're antsy/anxious to lynch. It's just that we're concerned with the lack of effort that some of the town is putting forth.

Which is completely unacceptable.

[ReaperCharlie]

Fitz: I was given to understand from the opening posts that you can't learn bodyguarding.

Starbuck, I appreciate you're having a shit time but could you either replace out or get something posted please? The game is sorta hinging on you and your not being here makes it easier for the scum to save Jack's hide.

Speak for yourself. She's got a vote down on a major wagon. You don't.

[ReaperCharlie]

It's like you're choosing to ignore the game's events in favour of your own little world isn't it?

The only reason you're alive is that your scum buddy got cold feet about killing you. Once he's swung, you're up.

Wait, are you saying that Jack and I are scum together!?

***GREAT BIG BELLY LAUGH!***

Oh man! that's a good one! *wipes tear away*
Thanks for the laugh. Really.

[ReaperCharlie]

Also...

Mod...you gave the flavors for the SK and Mafia...how would a death resulting from the CPR Doc's actions be colored and if the CPR Doc's target was the same as the Mafia or SK's kill...which flovor would have precedence? Or would both be shown?

HAHAHAHA!
You too?! F@#$ing A, guys! what's up with stupidity today?

In case you're wondering why I'm laughing, lemme clue you in to what a cpr doc

IS

:

Humphrey

"Thorn. You must have a death wish."

You try and fake an aura of superiority in everything you do. Therefor you use your knowledge from an old and dusty copy of "How to cure fatal wounds" to pass off as a part-time doctor. However you cannot really differentiate between those in need of assistance and those who are perfectly healthy ...

You are a

CPR Doc

. Each night, you may target a player. You will protect that player if he was targeted for night kills. You will kill that player otherwise

.

[ReaperCharlie]

Well, let's see: If Jack would have targeted either of the people who died last night, they would have lived. By targeting anyone else (i.e. me), they would have died. So there would have been either three kills, or only one. Thus, there are only two explanations for two kills last night.

1. Jack (as town) used his power and got blocked. (not redirected, blocked).
2. Jack (as scum) is lying, and didn't use his power like he said he would.

Ok, Magna would not have blocked Jack. Aside from you (tnm), he was the next person on my lynch. Jack said he was going to kill me last night, and there is absolutely no reason for Magna to have not wanted that, unless he and I were scum together (which obviously we aren't; he flipped town). So that goes out the window.

The other explanation for the block is that Starbuck claimed to be V/LA and to not have used her redirection, but lied and used her power on Magna, using it to block Jack from killing.

The only other explanation is that Jack is lying, and refrained from using his kill to set up Starbuck as scum today, which is the only other possible explanation for only two kills last night.

Originally, I bet Jack would have claimed that Magnascum blocked him because of the 'Magna and RC are scum together and he was protecting RC' argument.

But since Jack didn't count on Magna dying last night (which shows that Magna is town), Jack is now grasping at straws trying to think of the only other possible combination that would have accounted for no more and no less than two kills last night.

It all boils down to who you believe.

I believe Starbuck. Which means I believe she was V/LA. Being told that your husband wants a divorce is a big deal; I doubt she'd make that up to win a mafia game. This is consistent with her decreased level of activity Day 1, and she made sure to point out that she had 'very personal' issues and would not be as active. Why would she make this up? I just don't think she would.

[ReaperCharlie]

3. Jack (as scum) used his ability on you but was roleblocked.

I thought of this, but discounted it right away because then his other kill would have been blocked too. And then when you posted it, I realized that yes, it could have happened, because his cpr kill is attached to his role, while the scum kill is attached to their alignment, and if one of his scumbuddies killed someone and he used his role to kill someone, that would actually make sense. So yeah, I guess count that as an option 3.

Good find.

Actually, now that I'm thinking about that scenario even more, it somehow makes the most sense of the three options, in a weird way. Because whether or not Jack was blocked/redirect-blocked, my scumdar is exploding into a mushroom cloud.

[ReaperCharlie]

Just in case anyone missed it, the deadline is 9am (site time) on June 14th. Carry on.

[ReaperCharlie]

Ok, I'm gonna be straight up honest. I am getting scumdar readings off the charts from both Zang AND Starbuck right now. Obviously, I think Jack is scum, and he's obviously my lynch choice because I don't want him to be able to kill anyone tonight (i.e. ME). I thought I would have been dead last night, but I'm not, so I figured today was the only day I had left, unless Jack was lynched.

I'm pretty annoyed that the Jack lynch has stalled, and pretty annoyed that nobody is calling out

havingfitz

and

CallMeLiam

for purposely stalling that wagon. They have both intimated that they think Jack is scum, but for some reason they both getting cold feet when voting for him. Why??

---

observe:

First,

havingfitz

has said that he thinks it's more likely that Jack is scum than Starbuck, but still wants to lynch Starbuck:

I think one of SB and Jack are scum as well...and the odds lean slightly towards it being Jack IMO

BUT for some reason...

I think the best play today is to lynch SB

...WTF.


And then,

CallMeLiam

has said that that out of Jack and Starbuck, he is sure that Jack is the one lying.

No I don't want to vote Starbuck. Jack or RC.

and out of those, he picks ME. which is fine, but look at the reason.

vote: RC

since you're so needy for me to place my vote

.

WTF? and on top of that, he then says:

I'd like to see Zang, RC and anyone else off the lynch because they're my top two suspects.

wait, hold the phone.

so basically, you don't think I'm gonna be the lynch for today anyway, but you want me off the lynch, whoever it is?

this begs two questions:

1. Why do you want me off the lynch? Because you think I'm scummy enough to vote for... but not scummy enough that everyone else is gonna vote for me? and secondly,

2. If you don't think I'll be today's lynch, then WHY ARE YOU VOTING FOR ME?
why aren't you voting for a candidate who you think has a likely chance of ACTUALLY getting lynched?

...WTF.



Bonus!: Don't even get me started on Groupthink. His entire posting history for the last WEEK consists only of:

June 1: "Didn't use ability last night."
June 2: "Using ability tonight."
June 5: "Horrible hangover"

and he hasn't posted AT ALL in the 4 days since, and NOBODY CARES. Last I checked, HANGOVERS DONT LAST 4 DAYS.

[ReaperCharlie]

I'll be back later with more, btw.

Ugh! This town is SOOOO stupid and they can't even see what's RIGHT IN FRONT OF THEIR EYES.

[ReaperCharlie]

Vote: Starbuck

Liar, liar, pants on fire.

[ReaperCharlie]

Magna was on my lynch, and he is not scum. I am not scum, therefore I know Magna did NOT block Jack from killing me, therefore it had to be Starbuck.

Lynch all liars.

[ReaperCharlie]

Why would Magna (as town) block Jack from killing me, when Magna was ON MY WAGON?

Either it was a very elaborate TOWN-BUSSING scheme, or you're lying. I will take my chances with the latter.

[ReaperCharlie]

/me notes that Starbuck is wifoming it up trying to weasel out of a lynch.

/me notes that IF Groupthink is telling the truth, that either he or Zang is scum. Which is more wifom, but hey, welcome to the sandwich.

/me still thinks Starbuck is the best possible lynch for today because she has been caught in an outright lie and has not said anything about it.

@RC, if you are town then what is Starbuck's motive for redirecting the roleblock on Jack? If she left things alone there would be a townie dead with Jack responsible anyway, so why exactly would she do it? It seems to me much more likely that she would do it if you are scum and she was trying to protect you.

I don't have a clue. Maybe she thought Magna really was the SK and was redirecting his kill to Jack, who she considered more dangerous than me. Maybe she just made the mistake of thinking "wow, this is such a sly move that there's no way anyone will notice it until 2 or 3 more people die", or maybe she's just stupid AND a liar. I honestly couldn't tell you either way.

But I can tell you this: If me and her were scum together (which we're not), it should be pretty clear that I am bussing her uber-hard now to make me look awesome when she flips scum. And on top of that, I'm telling you what I'm doing so that you'll know exactly what I'm doing. wifom it up all you want, but the fact of the matter is, Starbuck is scum and there's nothing to do but lynch her for it.

You scum-buddies can hold off all you want, but this IS the lynch that's happening today.

[ReaperCharlie]

Actually, I've just seen something else as a possibility. Expect a post momentarily.

[ReaperCharlie]

Ok, so..... I may have lost ALL of my town cred by now, but here goes:

This is my case to convince you guys of who I think the three scum are.
We need to lynch them all, in this order, if we expect to have any chance of winning this game: Starbuck/charter/Groupthink

---

charter

has been hardcore buddying up to me, ever since day 1. He knew that I was the lynch candidate, but threw out a half-@$$ attempt to pretend to try not to get me lynched just because he KNEW I wouldn't die that night. This also makes it clear he knew that Starbuck would redirect Magna to me, because there's no point in buddying up to town if you're gonna let them get killed off.

And he

knew

that I (among many others) would vote for Jack, for BOTH getting us a no-flip lynch on day 1, AND because of the trap they'd set for him about not NKing me with his CPR thing. They knew there would be an even BETTER choice to lynch Jack after he supposedly 'lied' and didn't kill me the next night. And hey, look, it worked.

Not lynching day one is not an option

. I'll switch my vote to RC to prevent a no lynch, but honestly, a lurker lynch is a better option than RC. I think of Fitz, Liam, Starbuck, and Peanutman as lurkers.

I'd rather not lynch Starbuck, because I'm pretty sure she will be able to post more and the lurking is just her being busy.

Peanut voted Zang, so enough town points there to save him from a lurker lynch.

parts bolded for emphasis

Oh hey, Jack confessed to being scum. He lists the scenario of Starbuck redirecting his vig to Magna, whose death flavor makes me pretty sure he was killed by mafia, but didn't mention being redirected to Faraday. Whether Starbuck is a SK or not, it has no bearing on the need to lynch Jack today and Zang tomorrow when he flips scum.

You're either mafia or the biggest failure at town I've seen in a while. The mafia are the witches and faraday was blown up by a blast of magic. So Magna was the SK kill.

I switched the SK kill and mafia kill in my head

, but the point holds true. You only considered your kill being redirected to Magna, not Faraday. This is because you killed Faraday.

Conveniently mixes up the SK and Mafia kills, to make it seem like Jack is scummier than he actually is. This is more proof that they only left Jack alive that night 1 because they thought he'd be an easy mis lynch on Day 2, and it makes sense to kill Faraday cause I've heard he's a pretty good scumhunter. They were lining up lynches and we all walked right into it because of Jack vs RC (me) on day 1. What a bunch of F***tards we are.

---

And

Starbuck

has obviously been caught in her lie from night 1 and V/LA. Best AtE ever, though. *golf clap*

---

And

Groupthink

purposefully stayed off yesterday's lynch with one other person so that he could implicate at least one other player (probably not his own idea, probably Starbuck's, she seems to be the mastermind of the operation here, though I give charter props too, I totally thought he was town).

And I think the SK has screwed up the SB/charter/GT mafia's plans BOTH nights, by a) killing their fall guy night 1, and b) killing the same guy as them last night. Obviously the Mafia would have tried to kill the SK last night, and the SK was reallllly hoping to hit scum, and apparently havingfitz fit both molds, and drew both kills. Unfortunate for both scum groups, but good for us.

But the way the kills have gone and the way that these three players have played makes it pretty obvious to me that there's been a pretty good level of planning all throughout, and I think also if we mislynch today, or even lynch the SK, that the Mafia will kill tonight and endgame us tomorrow. So we need to lynch MAFIA, NOT SK. (and not town, obviously).

And once we lynch all those three, I think either Kdub or Zang is the serial killer. But we need to lynch Mafia today, if we lynch the SK, we'll be endgamed tomorrow and we'll all lose. This would also explain why both Kdub/Zang jumped on the Starbuck wagon so fast, because they knew they'd have no chance of winning if they didn't push a Mafia lynch today. Which is actually pro-town, and I now see why they're doing it, whoever it is.

Thoughts?

[ReaperCharlie]

The 1v1 between GroupThink and Zang is interesting. It's hard to get a read on GroupThink because he's been quiet for most of the game. I should note that it is odd that GroupThink did not immediately call out Zang as scum when giving his result.

This. And thank you.

But you're wrong about me bussing Starbuck. Read my case and respond to it please.

[ReaperCharlie]

And once we lynch all those three, I think either Kdub or Zang is the serial killer. But we need to lynch Mafia today, if we lynch the SK, we'll be endgamed tomorrow and we'll all lose. This would also explain why both Kdub/Zang jumped on the Starbuck wagon so fast, because they knew they'd have no chance of winning if they didn't push a Mafia lynch today. Which is actually pro-town, and I now see why they're doing it, whoever it is.

Was posting in a hurry this morning, and once I re-read it, this part of my post looks pretty confusing.

What I meant to say was this:

And once we lynch all those three, I think either Kdub or Zang is the serial killer. But we need to lynch Mafia today; if we lynch the SK, we'll be endgamed tomorrow and we'll all lose. This would also explain why Kdub

(or)

Zang jumped on the Starbuck wagon so fast, because

(whoever the SK is)

knew they'd have no chance of winning if they didn't push a Mafia lynch today. Which is actually pro-town, and I now see why they're doing it, whoever it is.

So, I am almost certain either Kdub or Zang is the SK, and I am leaning Kdub because it would definitely explain his somewhat detached tone in everything he posts. He doesn't appear to be fighting for the town, just analyzing things and leaving us to do what we want, all the while actively trying to stay out of any blatant confrontations with anyone.

Anyways, carry on with the Starbuck lynch, and if you haven't read my post 460 yet, read it.

[ReaperCharlie]

That's not what we meant. We aren't heartless. You're Starbuck FFS, we <3 you.

But if you're scum in this game, that doesn't mean we aren't gonna tie a rope around your neck and let you swing.

Love,
ReaperCharlie

P.S. I really am sorry for your RL sitch. =[

[ReaperCharlie]

OR; GroupThink is scum, IS LYING, and in doing so he's trying to pull the heat off you so you guys can turn this into a mislynch and win by endgame tomorrow.

No thanks.

[ReaperCharlie]

And.... does that exclude you as a viable, probable candidate for the SK?

I think not.

[ReaperCharlie]

Charlie:

If I were making a decision based solely on day interactions,

I could probably buy your case on charter.

u sayin u gots night interactions?

[ReaperCharlie]

And... what night interactions have you had with charter? *waits for reply*





Starbuck you're at L-1, claim please! *giggles*

[ReaperCharlie]

And... what night interactions have you had with charter? *waits for reply*

Was asking Kdub.



But SB, if it's such a good thing to ask Zang, why don't you ask him yourself?

[ReaperCharlie]

Will hammer later to give others a chance to speak.

Hi. *waves*

We've spoken.

[ReaperCharlie]

K now I know you're bullshitting scum, because I AM THE SK.

[ReaperCharlie]

I killed Magna night 1, havingfitz night 2, THOUGHT I was getting scum with each of those (because that's the only way to win as SK in this setup, hunt down and kill the scum right off and then kill townies 1 by 1 when they're running around like chickens with their heads cut off). I was PISSED when neither were scum, because I really thought havingfitz was scum over you. Turns out I was wrong on both counts and I am a horrible SK. But I've never been one before, so.

Anyways, you're a liar. And it's clear to me that charter is your scumbuddy because he won't lynch you.

AND cause of everything I said in

post 460

.

Unvote; Vote: Starbuck

THIS IS MYLO, PEOPLE. IF SHE CAN WEASEL OUT OF HER LYNCH, WE LOSE.

[ReaperCharlie]

Also, Kdub is likely town with his catch of TNM telling the SK to claim. Also, TNM told the SK who to kill. TNM is scum as well.

Nice, uh... buddying up to Kdub.

Not to mention trying to chainsaw TNM to get votes off Starbuck.

[ReaperCharlie]

Wow, Charlie, you are full of crap. Nice try making it look like you hammered too. Scum are delving into desperate tactics, aren't they?

Hehe, you like that? It's not a fake hammer btw, it was from my heart

If you guys are so certain that I'm not the SK, why haven't you hammered me yet?

I'm going to lose this game and so is the town.

If you are town and your vote is still on me, you are wrong.

Why? You LIED ABOUT REDIRECTING MAGNA.

[ReaperCharlie]

[ReaperCharlie]

Lying on top of lying won't help you.

If you'd redirected him to anyone else, there would have been 3 deaths, not 2.
If you'd redirected him to someone who'd have been killed otherwise, they'd have lived, so... 1 death, not 2.

You should have stuck with your original story.

Liar.

[ReaperCharlie]

That's not what the flavor said.

[ReaperCharlie]

A CPR Doc kill flavor would be '

throat slit (accidentally?)

' according to ooba.

And what it CLEARLY SHOWS US in the flavor is that Faraday was BLOWN UP IN A BLAST OF MAGIC, which means he was killed by the Mafia group, not by Jack.

And if the Mafia group AND Jack would have targeted the same target (Faraday), he would have lived, not died.

*Liar liar, pants on fire, tongue as long as a telephone wire...*

[ReaperCharlie]

Seriously, what in the h311 are you guys waiting for??

She's as good as presented herself on a silver platter!

"Hi, I'm Starbuck! I can't get my story straight,
but I like lying, and I

love

to kill people at night!"

LYNCH HER!

[ReaperCharlie]

Magna found me suspicious as hell. It would be pretty damn certain that he would RB me. If he did so, that means that I inadvertently RB'd Jack and that's why the kill flavor would show as mafia.

No, if he roleblocked you, I would have died because you wouldn't have been able to perform your redirect on Jack.

Nice try though (again.)

[ReaperCharlie]

Where have I not gotten my story straight?

Maybe start with reading my last 5 or so posts, where I've been systematically tearing you apart.

[ReaperCharlie]

You're done. That's all. There is no more to say.

Just vote yourself and get it over with.

[ReaperCharlie]

Mmk, whatever you say. Just let the other readers read our little conversation and make up their own minds.

[ReaperCharlie]

If I didn't know better, I'd say you were starting to sound convincing... if you hadn't ALREADY USED an Appeal to Emotion to dupe the town into believing you; and lynching Jack instead of you. You can't expect anyone to fall for that.

Not to mention, you have been CAUGHT LYING. Not once, TWICE:

1. You said you didn't use your night action on Night 1.
   1. Proved false by Jack, who flipped town, and Magna, who flipped town. No way they both lied and/or went against what they said in the thread.
      
   2. Later, YOU YOURSELF said you lied... and then provided the second lie to try to save yourself
2. You said you redirected Jack's save/kill ability to target Faraday.
   1. Also obviously a lie, because Faraday was killed by the Mafia, not by the CPR doc, according to the flavor POSTED BY THE MOD.
      
   2. (for those who still don't know, if she'd been telling the truth, Faraday would still be alive, because Jack's ability would have SAVED him).

Any

other

last attempts to save your life or point wild accusations at anyone besides yourself?

[ReaperCharlie]

Yeah, uh.... no.

Three full days ago,

you posted:

Because if the Sensor really is mafia, then that would be bastard modding and ooba & I will be having a full out fight after this game is over.

This is craplogic. Starbuck is obvscum, and this is defending Groupthink who is likely her buddy.

I'm not really sure who the last scum is.

Will hammer later to give others a chance to speak.

Still no vote.

_______________________________________________________________________________________

Earlier today you said:

I hadn't thought that they were both scum. Don't care which one we lynch.

Still

no vote.

_______________________________________________________________________________________

And now you're saying you'll support a lynch of whoever

posts

,

regardless

of the points I'm bringing against confirmed, lying scum... just because you are... annoyed?

First, that's an Appeal to Majority, also known as a.. "fallacy."

Secondly, that's the

n

th time you have posted without voting, even though you say you're fine with a lynch on either of us.

So...
A) If you were town, you'd DEFINITELY care who gets lynched (because it's MyLo), and you'd have hammered Starbuck eons ago.
B) ...see A).

[ReaperCharlie]

Oh. And those are facts, not opinion.

[ReaperCharlie]

I still think it's Starbuck, charter, and Groupthink.

[ReaperCharlie]

I'm sh1ttin brix

[ReaperCharlie]

<3

[ReaperCharlie]

Who, me? I thought that I thought outside the box well enough

[ReaperCharlie]

Oh, you mean like think outside the box that Magna actually DID block him? lolol

And it was admitting to your lies and making what looked like new ones that killed you, SB.

[ReaperCharlie]

Lmao that was a huge bucket of WIFOM that I ground into the floor eagerly, knowing that nobody could/would challenge me on that, and the only one who could disprove it was Starbuck, and she couldn't do that without admitting she was lying.

Which, incidentally, is what ended up happening. Unexpected bonuses FTW

[ReaperCharlie]

No thanks. I prefer to keep my meta hidden whenever possible. ^_^

[ReaperCharlie]

I have to admit, this WAS a pretty enjoyable game. *thumbs up, ooba!*

Anyone else agree to nom this game for a Scummy?

[ReaperCharlie]

Hindsight is 20/20, so they say.

Night 1 really screwed everyone up though. And in case it's not pretty
clear, Starbuck was the #1 catalyst in our win... no doubt in my mind.