Mini 969 - Smalltown: Stardust Mafia (Game Over)

[charter]

Wow, I totally didn't understand how the order for drafting was done.

[charter]

charter, what is the band in your avatar again? I forgot their name, but I always thought they had an awesome CD cover. I tried looking for it once, but I couldn't find it. Two letters isn't much to go by when searching google lol

Girl Talk. He's more of a DJ than a band, but he's really good.

[charter]

I'll take Captain Shakespeare.

[charter]

Still need to pick:

7. Kdub (1,1)
8. CallMeLiam (1,2)
9. Starbuck (1,3)
10. peanutman (4,2)
11. ReaperCharlie (4,3)
12. totallynotmafia (4,7)

Roles left:

Wall Guard - Bodyguard
Princess Una - One-shot Sensor
Victoria - Redirector
Yvaine - Revivor
Dunstan Thorne - Motivator
Bernard - Vanilla

Updated

[charter]

I'm going to be out of town until sunday night or monday.

[charter]

Had some unexpected time with a computer.

@ Faraday, charter, zang and peanut – Your thoughts on motivating the Tracker as the best town choice.

I think it's a good idea.

I was going to vote Jack, until I got to Zang...
Jack's points against Magna are garbage. I mean, 'didn't remember the SK's immunities?' makes Magna scum? Reaching to the moon with that one. And then Jack sets up an obviously fake dichotomy where he's town both of the cases. Magna clearly didn't say he's deciding between the only two choices of if Jack believes what he's saying or if Jack is doing a poor job scumhunting. Obviously there's more choices there, like deciding IF Jack believes what he's saying, and if he decides Jack doesn't belive what he's saying, that would make Jack scummy.

Zang's dismissal of the argument as town v town is scummy. Any way you slice it Zang is scummy, whether it is a town v town fight or town v scum or something else. Of course Zang doesn't say why he thinks it's town v town. So my guess is that he knows at least one of them isn't mafia, so it's a really poor attempt at town points if one of them dies.

vote Zang

[charter]

How can I know him if he is being accused of being a SK?

I don't understand what you're saying here.

And I think it's Town vs town because tbhe argument against magna is weak and I see Jack as more of a misguided townie than a scumbag.

Ok, I don't buy that you actually think this, but who are you suspicious of then, if you've already ruled out two people?

Charlie, most of your posts are complaining about nothing happening. You're not making anything happen or doing any scumhunting.

[charter]

I agree with Faraday's 141, with regards to not buying Zang's reasoning for labeling them both as town.

RC, what exactly are these "extra reasons" you're seeing that TNM gave for voting Magna? I don't see anything.

I also don't see where you (RC) are getting a FOS of Zang from, since you seem to agree with his town v town assessment.

1.He is being accused of being a SK correct? Well, then how am I supposed to know he is a SK?

There's not really much of a way to know on day one, but how does him not being a SK make him town?


Jack, what do you think of Zang?

RC's vote on TNM looks really terrible to me. He says TNM is omgusing him and then votes TNM, which really just looks like a cop out.

RC then says he'll vote Kdub for a pretty bad reason. RC and Zang look like possible buddies to me. Right now they're about equal scumminess to me as well.

RC, your points against me are terrible as well.

Charter's reason(s):
post 126: Zang's dismissal of the argument as town v town is scummy. Any way you slice it Zang is scummy.

Really? Any way you slice it, Zang is scummy? Remember, at this point, Zang has only posted 118! How do you expect me or anyone to follow your reasoning for the rest of your argument there? The logic is nonexistent! This blows my mind! Also of note:

You selectively didn't quote where I explained my argument.

This could be scum distancing. It would definitely be a very good excuse to do it right at this point, because it'd be subliminal.

Ok, so now you think me and Jack are scum as well? How many people are you suspicious of? 7? 8?

RC's flailing around is pretty scummy.

[charter]

I didn't read 169. I don't read posts that gigantic and the tl;dr was unhelpful.

I don't like how RC is saying how anyone who doesn't agree with Peanutman is obvscum. RC is throwing accusations around like crazy looking for what will stick, is the impression I get from him. He's trying to find out who he can string up, not find scum.

Anyhow, Zang's recent backtracking I find to be a virtual confession of scum. Here's what he initially said.

I think this Jack and magna thing is Town vs Town.

then there's

Once again, I never said either jack or magna is town. I just don't think they are scum/SK/whatever because of the arguments currently against them.

That looks like a backtrack to me once a few people question him on his town v town comment. The second sentence is just weak, as well. Arguments leveled against someone isn't a reason to clear them.

My other scumspects are Jack and RC. Jack pushed that crap case on Magna, and hasn't said barely a word about Magna for a while, despite still voting him. Now he looks like he's just scooting by. Jack also doesn't think Zang is scummy, and I don't see how anyone can not find Zang scummy. RC for reasons previously mentioned.

[charter]

Liam, who are you most suspicious of? Why?

[charter]

Like I said in my above post, stimulation of discussion on day 1 is essential, otherwise scum skates by, either by posting little to nothing, or by flat out lurking entirely. In my experience, day 1 play is a lot more important than a lot of people like to think on this site.

Ok, good idea, but your execution of it is terrible. If you want to avoid scum skating by, then ask them questions and flush out their opinions on things, don't accuse everyone of being scum and give bad reasons for it. Like I feel that Liam is pretty lurky, so I asked him who he was suspicious of, not call him scum and dig up some phoney reasoning for it.

I don't like how RC is saying how anyone who doesn't agree with Peanutman is obvscum.

Do you not agree that he is the most pro-town player at this point?

No. The only person I have a town read on is Faraday, and it's fairly minor.

I see what you mean but what else would you rather me call it "not scum vs not scum". And it's just a term, town vs town ussualy applies to when two people are fighting about something that makes neither of them scummy.

This isn't what you said before. This is another story change. If you thought the argument was pointless or null or something, why didn't you say 'I don't think the argument tells about their alignment'? I don't see how you call it town v town if what their arguing about doesn't make them scummy, wouldn't it be null v null?

[charter]

unvote, vote Jack

Jack has actually risen to scummier in my mind than Zang, and Zang is already at about 75% chance of being scum.

If you look at Jack's early posts, where he goes after Magna calling him the SK, he's posting frequently and apparently scumhunting. Now that Zang and RC are coming under fire, he's said virtually nothing. He's weakly defended Zang and I don't think he's mentioned RC at all. Now Jack isn't doing jack. It looks pretty apparent that Jack was hoping he could quickly push through a non mafia lynch on Magna, and now that that's fallen through, he's doing absolutely nothing. I suppose waiting to see which way the wind blows before he commits to anything.

All in all, I'm still very suspicious of Zang and to a lesser degree RC, despite not thinking any of his recent posts are protown, but based on Jack and Zang's actions, I could see RC as town, but not Jack or Zang.

[charter]

Request prod on Jack and Liam

[charter]

Good find there RC. Jack, instead of strawmanning RC's case, how about you actually respond to it? Why did you think Faraday was probably town when he'd only made two posts since seeing his role PM?

Jack what do you think of Zang?
Zang what do you think of Jack?
When are either of you going to scumhunt?

Why aren't more people voting Jack?

[charter]

DID ANYBODY EVEN SEE POST 225? I THINK IT'S A PRETTY GOOD FIND AND JACK HAS IGNORED IT ABOUT FIVE TIMES.

Maybe people will see it if I scream real loud.

Anyhow, Liam's return the game is extremely underwhelming. Joins the largest wagon and says virtually nothing. Going to need some more from you, Liam.

Jack saying that RC doesn't know what he is talking about is scummy to the max AND ANOTHER STRAWMAN. Jack absolutely did strawman RC's case when he asked RC if all his cases are that bad instead of responding to what RC said. Jack's defending himself by saying RC doesn't know what he's talking about, or RC's case is weak, INSTEAD OF DEFENDING AGAINST THE CASE!!!

I'm 100% sure Jack is scum. I'm going to be convincing the rest of you of this as well.

[charter]

Ummm, so I just looked at Jack's role. He's the CPR doc, which if he's scum is just going to be a second kill for them. His role combined with his scumminess means it's a really bad idea to let him live until tonight.

[charter]

Yeah, not answering questions is really scummy. Especially when those questions can potentially incriminate you. I don't see where you get this null business from.

Regardless of not answering questions, people have given other reasons for Jack being scum, which you didn't comment on.

[charter]

^ That's in response to 250, Magna slipped a post in there.

Not lynching day one is not an option. I'll switch my vote to RC to prevent a no lynch, but honestly, a lurker lynch is a better option than RC. I think of Fitz, Liam, Starbuck, and Peanutman as lurkers. I'd rather not lynch Starbuck, because I'm pretty sure she will be able to post more and the lurking is just her being busy. Peanut voted Zang, so enough town points there to save him from a lurker lynch.

So I'd rather lynch Fitz or Liam over RC, but we should be lynching Jack.

[charter]

What about those voting RC, would you vote for Jack?

[charter]

I doubt Jack is going to explain anything if no one votes him. Unvoting this close to deadline and not putting down another vote is criminal, especially if you aren't going to be here until the day of deadline...

[charter]

I've played like one game with you and your play there was about ten times more protown. How do I "know you better than I'm letting on"? How is that scummy of me?

This is getting ridiculous at how obvscum Jack is.

[charter]

Ok, I am going to cry if we don't end up lynching Jack.

You've played two games with me and in both of them I blatantly and repeatedly refused to answer questions questions.

What's the other one besides Avatar? Your meta defense is worthless, as are almost all meta defenses.

Put at L-1 and dayvigged, for, I might add, deliberately not answering a question to see what reactions I got. Which charter claims to think is super suspicious this game.

There were several reasons you were killed, not just one. I've given other reasons for suspecting you this game, you've ignored them.

Jack is saying I'm scum because I "know him better than I'm letting on". This has to be the most ridiculous reason for calling someone scum I have ever seen. I've played one (maybe two, but I don't remember the other one) game with Jack. Jack even said he was killed on page four, so how am I supposed to know him well. He doesn't explain how even if his accusation were true, how it makes me scummy.

Jack's suspicions on RC, me and Kdub are entirely OMGUS. His arguments are terrible. And guess what, he's still voting Magna! Who wants to bet he jumps on the easy wagon of RC?

I'm calling it right now. RC is town. If he gets lynched today and flips town, I'm absolutely using that as evidence against Jack.

Lynching Zang would also be a great way to end the day. He's done zero scumhunting. He's been scum. He lurks like nobody's business. And now he's going to be V/LA until deadline and isn't voting. I'd love to give him more time to deal with things in real life that are keeping him away from the computer.

[charter]

I've played like one game with you and your play there was about ten times more protown. How do I "know you better than I'm letting on"? How is that scummy of me?

Well you seem to know him well enough to make the judgement that his play was better than that, even from page 4 of that game. The fact the scenario's are remarkably similar in terms of what happened - Jack refusing to answer a simple question mostly for reactions makes it even more odd.

He came back into that game, so there is more than four pages I'm basing this on. What Jack said is only about a quarter of the picture, which makes the argument even worse, and him even scummier.

What's the other one besides Avatar? Your meta defense is worthless, as are almost all meta defenses.

Well if you're going to attack him (or partly) based on meta (you're better than this, you were 10x more protown) then saying he can't defend himself with meta is a copout.

I'm not using that as a point against Jack. I never said I thought he was scum because of meta. He brought it up it up as a reason to say I'm scum, 'well Charter should know this is how I play, he's not acknowledging that so he's scum'. You need to read more carefully.

I've no real read on Jack, I might have to go read some of his scum games, other than pyp2, to see if he does things like that as scum. Maybe he can save me the trouble and tell me

I find this impossible to believe. Jack's arguments are horrible. Read whatever you have to and get a read on him. Fence sitting is unacceptable.

After Jack's latest post, there is absolutely no way he is town. He's trying to tell not one but two roles what they should do. Obviously you shouldn't say what you're going to do before time. I am literally ripping my hair out at how the people in this game are letting him get away with his scumminess. He's playing atrociously and no one but me and RC is saying anything.

[charter]

Vote Jack

There is absolutely no way my vote is moving today. Things to add to the list of his ultra scummy actions:
Quickhammering and ending the day WAY too early, while we still had about four lurkers (probably two of them are his buddies).
Not killing RC despite his claims that RC is such omgobvscum.

I agree with everyone claiming their actions, I didn't commute last night.

[charter]

Oh hey, Jack confessed to being scum. He lists the scenario of Starbuck redirecting his vig to Magna, whose death flavor makes me pretty sure he was killed by mafia, but didn't mention being redirected to Faraday. Whether Starbuck is a SK or not, it has no bearing on the need to lynch Jack today and Zang tomorrow when he flips scum.

[charter]

Although Starbuck's slip is pretty bad, she does make a juicy SK target, but the SK killed (I guess the 'stabbed' is the SK?), so it doesn't make sense why she wouldn't use her power, unless she didn't want to use her one redirect on anyone so soon.

I dunno, something to keep in mind, but I'd rather be lynching a sure thing in Jackscum than taking a gamble on getting the SK.

[charter]

Oh hey, Jack confessed to being scum. He lists the scenario of Starbuck redirecting his vig to Magna, whose death flavor makes me pretty sure he was killed by mafia, but didn't mention being redirected to Faraday. Whether Starbuck is a SK or not, it has no bearing on the need to lynch Jack today and Zang tomorrow when he flips scum.

You're either mafia or the biggest failure at town I've seen in a while. The mafia are the witches and faraday was blown up by a blast of magic. So Magna was the SK kill.

I switched the SK kill and mafia kill in my head, but the point holds true. You only considered your kill being redirected to Magna, not Faraday. This is because you killed Faraday.

Really just waiting on Groupthink to come and claim and then lynch Jack, then Zang, then I forget who the third scum was.

[charter]

totallynotmafia, havingfitz, CallMeLiam, Zang, GroupThink

Who are you most suspicious of? Why? Why are you not voting?

Groupthink, why did you not use your sensor last night?
Zang, why did you target Jack? Do you think Jack's quickhammer was protown?

Anyone who hasn't claimed, should claim. I don't remember if all our lurkers claimed.

Mod, can we get some prods?

It seems like only half the players are posting.

[charter]

I am pretty sure Havingfitz is Jack and Zang's scumbuddy. You should have just bussed them, might have bought you enough town points to make it to endgame.

All this "there's no need to rush" crap is nonsense, Jack is caught, we lynch him, no need to pussyfoot. Especially if you're like Havingfitz and doing absolutely nothing in the thread other than weak defenses of Jack, but still clamoring for more time.

TNM makes the only good case for not immediately hammering Jack, trying to catch scum with the sensor. Obviously if Groupthink is somehow mafia or if he's the SK, there's very little incentive to even use the ability and not just make it up. I think that the plan to keep the scummy people off the wagon is the vastly superior plan. If we have all the scummy people vote, and then figure out all three mafia were on the wagon, then the confirmed townies (or potential SKs) will be NK'ed fast.

It tells us the same thing if we keep the scummy people off, except we'll get more confirmed/likely town.

It might make sense to make Jack self hammer if we go with the scummy people vote Jack plan. It would narrow down the pool of possible scum when we find out how many scum were voting him.

Didn't have much time to fully think this through, just what came off the top of my head.

Liam, it might be good to say who you protected, since it might have been who Jack tried to kill. Probably better to claim it after Jack flips scum though.

[charter]

Yeah, this is why yesterday, instead of lynching RC and wasting the day, we should have lynched a lurker.

[charter]

Jack's suspicious are just OMGUS. They change every time someone else says he's scum.

Let's figure out who were gonna have voting him, and lynch him. Personally, I think we should have Zang, fitz, Liam not voting him. Since those three are, in my opinion, extremely likely to contain the last two scum.

Also, Jack, what part of the world do you live in?

[charter]

Also we need to get two people to hammer Jack when he's not going to be online, so he can't self hammer and make the sensor useless. One to put him at L-1 and the other to hammer.

[charter]

If anyone self votes, they're automatically scum, Jack. I assume you still think you can wiggle your way out of a lynch, so you're not confessing to be scum by self voting.

[charter]

Mod, when is our deadline?

The people who are constantly posting to say they're not going to post need to replace out immediately or start actually posting. I understand that there's more important things than mafia, so you should take care of that instead of worrying about this game.

There is literally no way we can even hope to win this with this amount of lurkage.

[charter]

Jack not killing RC seems the most likely to me. He wouldn't kill RC as scum since it would force us to lynch RC again and waste yet another day. Plus, when RC flips town (and he's going to) it would reflect poorly on Jack.

Honestly not sure why he chose to no kill, there was literally no way he was going to be able to explain it away, but I guess he's trying.

I don't see why people think Jack was redirected. Jack was definitely not redirected, since we had two kills, and if he was redirected, there would be one or three.

Six days to deadline, and I feel it's pretty hopeless to get a lynch in and make good use of the sensor. Obviously lynching takes precedence.

TNM/Groupthink, are you guys going to vote Jack? If so, I think you should do it sooner rather than later, since I have zero confidence that Groupthink is going to show up before deadline, so we need to start working on a backup plan (for example, Liam voting Jack, who he claims he thinks is scum, but is voting for RC when it's really clear they aren't scumbuddies).

[charter]

If RC is the Serial Killer, he's doing a bad job of avoiding suspicion on himself.

If you killed RC, it would be fine. But you didn't because there's greater benefit to you, as scum, not killing him. Obviously you couldn't kill someone else, since it would be really obvious. You could not kill, since lynching RC again, as I've already said, wastes another day and killing him makes you look bad.

You can say you think he's a SK, but it doesn't matter. You're scum, you're just saying whatever you can think of to try and save yourself.

[charter]

But you're scum, so you know he isn't going to flip scum. If RC by some miracle flips SK, then you're in the exact same boat. You're still scum. You didn't kill, because it wastes another day. That is of more benefit to you than killing him.

If people reread day two, it's extremely apparent that Jack is scum. This is also the last time I'm going to respond to any of Jack's stuff, unless he comes up with some legitimate points, and not more fuel for him being scum, since this has just degenerated into a shouting contest.

[charter]

Also, if Starbuck is SK, redirecting a roleblock to Jack was incredibly stupid, now that I actual think about doing it (and not dismissing it based off it's incredibly unlikelihood).

Jack clearly announced who he was going to kill, and it wasn't Starbuck, so once again, unless this was some master plan of hers to fake the V/LA in order to save one person (who isn't herself) from dying on night one, just seems extremely dumb. I mean, if she is the SK, and Jack does flip town (hypothetical scenario, Jack isn't town) then it confirms her as a liar, and her game is over.

I think it's Jack/Zang/Liam. I know I was suspicious of Fitz before, but Liam's recent 'Jack and RC are scumbuddies' is just a crackpot theory that looks like he's trying to throw in a town lynch after the Jackscum lynch inevitably happens. Note how he's voting RC as well, I'd bet anything he "forgets" to change it to Jack to ensure a lynch. Plus, he didn't bodyguard the tracker.

[charter]

I give up. This game is pointless with this extreme lurkage. It'd be cool if the mafia and SK could kill the lurkers to make this an actual game and try and win by skill, but it's understandable if you just go for the easy win.

[charter]

Because if the Sensor really is mafia, then that would be bastard modding and ooba & I will be having a full out fight after this game is over.

This is craplogic. Starbuck is obvscum, and this is defending Groupthink who is likely her buddy.

I'm not really sure who the last scum is.

Will hammer later to give others a chance to speak.

[charter]

Actually, I'd guess the last scum was on Jack's lynch, since Groupthink's thing is claiming either him or Zang is scum, and since I doubt he's town, it looks like he's trying to get another mislynch in (which is what Starbuck is doing as well voting for Zang).

[charter]

PEOPLE SHOULD UNVOTE SO WE CAN DISCUSS WHICH OF THE SCUMBAGS WE NEED TO LYNCH!

[charter]

Also, Kdub is likely town with his catch of TNM telling the SK to claim. Also, TNM told the SK who to kill. TNM is scum as well.

[charter]

Since we NEED to lynch mafia today, I think it's wise to lynch Zang.

I really don't like the idea of leaving both of these caught scum alive, but if we lynch the SK today then we're 3 vs 3 tomorrow and it's game over for the town.

If Zang isn't going down, then I buy Starbuck as mafia over RC, but I'm far from certain.

This is a pretty bad idea. Zang is not confirmed scum, while Starbuck and Charlie definitely are, and I don't believe for a second that either one of them is the SK. If Starbuck were the SK, it would have made no sense for her to redirect Magna on N1. She would have just let Jack kill Charlie. Her only possible motivation is as mafia trying to save her partner. They are mafia and trying to bus each other, maybe trying to out the real SK in the process. We can deal with the GT vs. Zang thing after we lynch these two.

That's a good idea. I hadn't thought that they were both scum. Don't care which one we lynch.

[charter]

You two need to shut up. Your spam is really annoying and none of the rest of us want to read it. I say next one of you that posts is who we lynch.

[charter]

Yeah, after thinking about it some more, I'm convinced both of you are scum.

unvote, vote Starbuck


Also mod, can you try and fix the first post with all the roles and stuff? It's impossible to read

[charter]

Only way town can win is lynching scum. Durr. Lynching the SK almost assures us an instaloss.

[charter]

Ugh. Good work scum, you did a good job.

Wish we didn't have so many lurkers...