Mini 968 - Bastard Mass Effect (Game Over)

[Kerristar]

This is the SaintKerrigan head of the hydra Kerristar. This head of the hydra is going to be V/LA for most of this week due to finals, but I had time to post some thoughts.

The other half of this hydra is Kunkstar7. Do you guys wish for us to identify which one of the heads is posting, or does is not matter to you?

As for MMM's questions...

1. Policy Lynching... need I say more?

Almost always against it, except when it comes to VIs. Scum never kill those, and they are detrimental to the game, so it is usually good for town to lynch them ASAP, unless there is a vig.

2. Is set-up speculation scummy, even in a bastard game?

It's not really that helpful (usually), but I wouldn't call it scummy.

3. Lynch-all-Liars?

I say lynch all liars that are caught. There may be circumstances where town could benefit from a townsperson lying, but these are rare, and I can only think of one at the moment (Paranoid Gun Owner claiming Doc to draw a Mafia NK). If you get caught, well you knew the risk of lying going in.

4. How well acquainted are you with the ME games/books?

I have played both games multiple times over, but am not as familiar with the books.

Vote: TonyMontana

for being a bastard mod and for using improper grammar in the town win condition.

[Kerristar]

@Cathart: Your logic behind the massclaim makes sense, I'm leaning towards supporting it. Is it both role and name claim or just one or the other?

[Kerristar]

This is the SaintKerrigan head of the hydra Kerristar.

This head of the hydra is going to be V/LA for most of this week due to finals

...

[Kerristar]

Agreed with MMMs line of thinking, but I still think that being sneaky in favor of a massclaim, ala Kerristar, is more scummy, though Para's reasoning (lack thereof) has made me more suspicious.

Especially because I don't see how a brief sentence by Doombunny implies 'getting hung up on it.'

Our support of the massclaim depended on what it consisted of.

The only person I see with a reasonable point against us is Limerickx, although misguided. I see scum hoping for a quick policy lynch on inactivity.

Right now I would be happy with a Col, Kerri, or Parama lynch (reasons for them pretty much the same as the others already stated). I'll keep my vote on the Col for now until I hear more from each of them.

Agh, do not like this. Blatant willingness to wagon on whatever is the current lynch without adding anything from yourself, thereby absolving yourself of much responsibility in the wagon, is scummy.

unvote; vote: Doombunny9

[Kerristar]

Also, why is Limerickx's case misguided? And do you really think he is scum? The term 'misguided' implies he is town hunting town. As for a policy lynch, he stated earlier that he was generally against policy lynching, and for inactivity? You stated you would be V/LA, or at least one head, so any inactivity can be excused. I don't see anything in Limerickx's case about inactivity

I have a town read from Limerick at this point, hes active, scumhunting, thats why he is misguided, its town on town. Regarding the inactivity, thats why Limerick is the only one with a point against us. A few of the votes on the bandwagon were simply for inactivity (reck and bv if I'm correct), which was baseless. Limerick is misguided because of the way he interpreted the post.

Is it both role and name claim or just one or the other?

Implies "Yes, keep going for a massclaim, it will result in a) a massclaim, or b) people lynching you for starting the idea of having a massclaim,"
while almost insinuating that a massclaim IS going to be the outcome.

I don't see how the first implies the second. Its the conditions of our support. I would argue that this is stretching to a degree. The quote simply asks if its name or role claim or both, and depending on which happens we'll give our support. I really don't see how it implies that we are trying to get people to lynch him solely, as this would be hypocritical when we clearly were preparing to support it as well.

Ani's in this game??

[Kerristar]

Because due to the fact that he started trying to gain momentum on the proposal, he would be the focus of any resulting 'heat,' while passively agreeing, in the manner that your post read, would not. Also saying 'is it both role and name claim or just one or the other?' implies that some decision TO massclaim was made. No, not upfront, but in a backhanded manner. That is how I read it.

Makes sense.

The only person I see with a reasonable point against us is Limerickx, although misguided.

Implies Limerickx is town.

I see scum hoping for a quick policy lynch on inactivity.

Implies Reck and bv310

Limerickx

are scummish.

Our support of the massclaim depended on what it consisted of.

Ok, so what massclaim did you support and what benefit would the town gain from that?

We supported nameclaim in particular. Role stuffs. Kind of pointless now that everything was shot down and we'll probably have to claim. Thats why Limerickx is misguided. We wanted to see if the massclaim would contain a nameclaim, if not, it wasn't worth pursuing. So Limerickx was reading too much into that sentence.

[Kerristar]

If Kerristar REALLY wanted to have more info regarding the massclaim before agreeing/not agreeing, then why not say so? Why not something like 'I might be for it, depending on what sort of claim. Is it a........'and so on

That was the intention of the post.

I still don't see how a nameclaim is good for town.

Namecopping. Locking scum into an early nameclaim would allow for looking for fakeclaims.

[Kerristar]

@Kerristar - Do you still think nameclaim is a good idea?

For our role, it wouldn't be a bad idea. It is not something we demand, however.

[Kerristar]

How many fucking times do I have to say it? My reason has nothing to do with names being related to alignments. Additionally, most mods aren't going to put characters with that direct of links to their roles. Doing so would be stupid and make your game very difficult for the scum.

@Kerristar - Why are you lurking again? Is the reason you want a nameclaim the same reason that I have been saying it's a good idea today?

Don't worry VP, you are the only sane one here. I'm surprised. Oh wait, and Fate.

Alright Parama, shoot(read: claim).

Vote: Parama.

[Kerristar]

Ok, turn over.

Vote/Hammer: Parama

Says the scum protecting his scumpartner. You didn't even read his post did you, even consider the implications? God no wonder you didn't understand VP.

[Kerristar]

Kerristar might be scum if Parama is town. Remind me of this tomorrow.

Because I guessed that Parama is most likely a vig of some sort?

[Kerristar]

Ok, turn over.

Vote/Hammer: Parama

Says the scum protecting his scumpartner. You didn't even read his post did you, even consider the implications? God no wonder you didn't understand VP.

Who would be ani's scumpartner here?

Doombunny. Its kind of a blatant move by Ani, but I find it hard to believe that he didn't even stop to consider Parama's mention of him killing doombunny. The quick hammer by ani seems to me like scum capitalizing quickly on the situation.

[Kerristar]

Alright well, I believe animorpherv on his nameclaim stuff, it checks out.

I got to say ani, that was fail at typing xP

I'm still highly suspicious of ani from his hammer yesterday. It was too soon after the claim, didn't even think about what Parama was saying, just overall horrible.

Two vigs and they both failed to kill?

[Kerristar]

Two vigs and they both failed to kill?

One SK/CL (Col.Cathart, with two options:

1. (SK) Got roleblocked/target protected (good)
2. (CL) recruited someone

My kill failed, I'm sure.

Wasn't roleblocked, that's for sure.

Regarding #2, recruited?? Did I miss something?

Oh let me guess. Your a vig too?

Epic.

[Kerristar]

kerristar - why were you thinking of ani over night?

Thought of ani because I hated his hammer and wanted to have some background if he tried worming around it.

Three vig types? Freaking crazy.

@ani: I find the cult idea unappealing, it doesn't make much sense at all.

[Kerristar]

@Col, I was referring to myself being roleblocked. I wasn't roleblocked. You, maybe, a lot of things are possibilities. I believe ani's nameclaim, but his quick claiming of vig is unsettling. His reaction to Parama's mention of a viglike ability doesn't seem to me like he stopped to consider the thought of multiple killing roles, making it less likely he has one himself.

[Kerristar]

Why are we assuming that people's role names match with their alignments?

[Kerristar]

@ VP Baltar

Well, I guess I should explain why I hammered since everyone is mad at me, etc.

When I heard Parama essentially say that he could kill, I thought he was either a SK or a mafia member, because I am a vig. Last night, I shot KerriStar because he had the most votes on him, but it didn't go through.

My flavour has stuff about me having Extensive military training, and being a former C-Sec officer. I am Garrus Vakarian.

I am not the head that wrote the statement in question, but I believe this is the quote being referred to. If I am wrong, my other self can correct this with the proper quote.

[Kerristar]

Mod: I don't see why Doomsbunny's vote in Post #273 was invalid. There is little difference between it and xReck's vote in the following post, which was counted. Could you elaborate on why Doomsbunny's vote didn't count?

[Kerristar]

Could you elaborate on why you're trying to end the day as quick as possible?

I wasn't. I was confused by the mod's decision to not include what I thought was a valid vote, so I asked for further explanation.

[Kerristar]

Which would have ended the day and resulted in two modkills plus the lynch. Welcome back to the scumlist buddy boy.

Thanks. For the record, it's just a part of this head's personality to ask for explanations for things he doesn't get.

Luke's hammer was awful, but I'll need to see Ani's flip before determining whether it was scum-driven or just terrible town. I don't think scum would drop a stinkbomb like that on one of their own.

[Kerristar]

Nvm, missed VP's unvote. Ani's still at L-1.

[Kerristar]

I have to side with Kerristar on this one. VP, by your reasoning, I could be labeled scum as well for telling the mod I was voting ani yet the reason I did tell the mod is because I am a rule abiding player. Kerri was just pointing out to the mod that something was wrong. I see nothing scummy about that.

The difference being that the mod had already clarified votecount 2.1 was official and Kerristar tried to argue out of it and get the lynch.

He also is now trying to shovel shit on luke for quick hammering, which isn't the case because I unvoted. I suggest someone else unvotes for now as well. Kerristar is clearly not paying attention and is mostly focused on this day ending quickly.

(ftr, though, someone should vig luke tonight)

Vote: kerristar

You're assuming that I made the inquiry to try and reinstate the vote. I knew the mod declared his votecount official; I just wanted to know why.

As stated before, I missed your unvote. It happens. Missing things =/= being scum.

[Kerristar]

Thirdly, Kerristar, why are you convinced that he wasn't RB'd? In a game like this, a roleblocker doesn't seem entirely out of the realm of possibility.

@Col, I was referring to myself being roleblocked. I wasn't roleblocked.

This is how the head that made the statement in question responded to the last inquiry about it. If you wish for further elaboration, it'll have to wait until that head gets online again.

Ani's last post when he thought he was hammered seems off.

I agree with this sentiment.

@ Ani, why do you think I'll be vigged?

[Kerristar]

I am not Scrambling. I said that luke/Kerri are both good lynches, and I stand my that.

So start proving it. So far all you've said was that you agree with VP Baltar's earlier statements about me. Got anything more substantial for voting me than that?

[Kerristar]

Well! At least

some

of the scummy people are actually flipping scum. I was getting worried after the Ani flip.

[Kerristar]

Wait a minute.

Vote: xRECKONERx.

You said you were an odd-night vig. LaL

[Kerristar]

I lied.

That's the point.

[Kerristar]

So you're not interested in the fact that I lied because a pro-town vig that can kill every night is a scum NK target, so I made it seem like I wasn't a threat for last night?

Scumbunny knows I've been up his ass. I didn't want him to kill me before I could kill him. Though, none of that matters anyway since my kills apparently don't go through. I must be a false vig or something. Makes sense with Joker being a lame duck.

PS, bv310 masonized me N1. That's why I didn't want him lynched yesterday.

Nope, not buying it.

You being masons with Bv does not mean you are town.

[Kerristar]

Um, wow. That's about all I can say to Doombunny's post. Did you really not read? You're the scum who isn't paying attention. Thanks for trying to bus your dead partner.

[Kerristar]

@ Reck: Did you get the gun specifically because Parama died?

@ VP: Why are masons confirmed town? Reck didn't start out a mason, so it's plausible that Bvtown could've masonized Reckscum.

That said, I agree with my other head that Doomsbunny's statement was just horrible.

Also, the mod has counted Doomsbunny's vote? Interesting...

[Kerristar]

*grumbles about the wiki saying nothing about masons having to be confirmed*

So...I'm having trouble seeing a good reason why Reck outted Bv310 as a neighborizer this early in the day.

@ Bv310: Did you neighborize someone last night? Who?

[Kerristar]

@ Doombunny: You do realize that neither CC or Fate are voting for you, right? And you do realize how overreactive that makes you seem to be, right?

[Kerristar]

This is one of the posts that Fate isn't going to read.

[Kerristar]

Got prodded. May be a bit before I get on with this game since I have a ton of other things that need responding to at the moment.

[Kerristar]

Two shots at Doombunny without killing him are suspicious in my mind. Plus the whole deal with luke, and he's shaping up to be a way better lynch than xReckx. Limerickx's shadiness today is suspicious, so I would say that the rest of scum is in those three, most likely DB and Lim. Although another possibility that comes to mind is xReckxScum claiming to have shot DB to gain some townpoints. The best way to find out in my opinion is:

Unvote; Vote:Doombunny.

That should be L-1.

Also I don't see the whole deal around VP. He seems town from my view, and the discussion going on between db/vp/col regarding the meta stuff is not really doing anything. So if you have anything substantial on VP besides that I would like to see it because I'm not seeing it.

[Kerristar]

[Speculation]In ME2, players have the option to kill Samara and replace her with her evil daughter, Morinth, who looks exactly like Samara. Can't help but wonder if such a falseclaim exists in this game.[/Speculation]

@ Reck: Scum Neighborizer isn't something I'd rule out of happening in a normal game. It makes for awesome WIFOM headaches from the scum.

[Kerristar]

What, seriously? No way is scum neighborizer a normal role.

It's no worse than mafia masons, in my opinion, and those are normal.

[Kerristar]

EBWOP: Should say, they're considered normal for Open games. I guess I can't speak for Mini-Normals.

[Kerristar]

Alright, yea first point of order is three claimed vigs with only single kills each night. Reck's idea of alternate night vigs seems reasonable considering the bastardness but it breaks at the part of no scumfaction kill. Maybe that's how it was balanced to avoid too many kills?

I'll agree with the massclaim idea. Seeing as only a few people have left to do it. So Fate is up.

[Kerristar]

I have secret infoz about the nokills.

That's funny, because I believe I have secret info about the no kills.

...Alright then.....I feel not special because I don't have secret nokill information .

I don''t mind claiming first, and I think that VP should claim before Fate due to the fact that he claimed secret info after Fate mentions it.

[Kerristar]

Alright I'm going first then.

I'm Miranda Lawson, namecop. We get name, Race(like human, Geth, etc.), and some background information.

We namecopped Animorpherv1 N1, Lukepukeduke N2, and xReckx N3. Each investigation was done according to who we thought was scummiest and the most likely lynch target of the next day, so that if any of them tried to fakeclaim their name we could call them out on it. All of them checked out, as in they all claimed their real name, (well except luke because he never claimed anything.)

I'm pretty sure that VP picked up on this Day 1 while we were under pressure. This was the reason why we also wanted a nameclaim, as having everyone locked into a nameclaim on Day 1 would allow us to search for fakeclaims.

Our support of the massclaim depended on what it consisted of.

We only supported it if there was a nameclaim involved.

We supported nameclaim in particular. Role stuffs. Kind of pointless now that everything was shot down and we'll probably have to claim.

....

We wanted to see if the massclaim would contain a nameclaim, if not, it wasn't worth pursuing.

Trying to defend against the accusations without really giving away the role.

I still don't see how a nameclaim is good for town.

Namecopping. Locking scum into an early nameclaim would allow for looking for fakeclaims.

Basically claimed right here, trying to show what our role's purpose was for.

Alright well, I believe animorpherv on his nameclaim stuff, it checks out.

N1 results.

[Kerristar]

His N2 result is a nice cop-out. His N3 target was.... SOMEONE WHO HAD ALREADY NAME CLAIMED.

Oh yea, because we would know that he wasn't fakeclaiming

without investigating him?

That's the whole point of this role from my perspective. They nameclaim, you investigate, if they lied, then lynch.

No fucking way xRECK didn't real claim especially with a character like the Joker.

The funny thing is when we got xReckx's results I actually was surprised because I didn't know that Jeff Moreau was Joker until I read the background info stuffs. Like I said, our intention was to investigate the player we thought most likely to be under pressure and claim, so that we could have some role supported proof if they chose to lie.

I'd like Kerristar to fullclaim the information he found out about each person. He said they got background info. What background info?

Fullclaim ahoy:

N1 was animorpherv, he was a Turian by the name of Garrus Vakarian, and the background was that he is military, C-SEC.

N2 was lukepukeduke, he was a Geth by the name of Legion, and the background was that he had 10 times more programs a mobile platform. He could also speak and work separately from the Geth mob.

N3 was xReckonerx, he was a human by the name of Jeff Moreau, and the background was that he had Vrolik syndrome and called himself the best pilot in the System Alliance, with the nickname Joker.

[Kerristar]

Like I said, our intention was to investigate the player we thought most likely to be under pressure and claim, so that we could have some role supported proof if they chose to lie.

But I had already claimed.

Yea, you claimed and we felt you were leaning scummy. So we checked you out to see if you were lying or not. Because we can totally know if you aren't lying without investigating you.

[Kerristar]

Anyone reading the thread knew you were a name cop D1.

Then I'm not sure I know what I'm debating with you, I was under the assumption that you didn't believe our roleclaim. We felt xReckx was a likely suspect because of his lying about his vig ability.

With the amount of killing roles in this game I find both Fate and VP's roles believable, their play also supports it. One of xReckx or Colonel is lying about their vig role, more likely xReckx because his lying about his vig ability plus the 0% shot he keeps mentioning just looks like he is trying to hide behind the bastardization of the game. Whoa. Neighborizer...with xReckx? I can easily see Bv having chosen to "neighborize" his scumpartner, and they'll probably call their scumtopic their 'neighbor" topic. BV doesn't even have to actually be a neighborizer, he can just use his quicktopic to cover for it, and the fact that its called neighborizer helps provide a sense of different factions, essentially distancing from xReckx.