Mini 968 - Bastard Mass Effect (Game Over)

[Col.Cathart]

Fate:

I HAD to replace out. I replaced out from 5 games at the time. I simply couldn't help it, as my computer was fried, and I had no Internet access except from like... 15 minutes during break between the courses in my uni library. But nevermind, those are old times.

Also: Whoa... 5 votes? God damn... Now I simply have to ask you a few things:

a) What's your flavor role? Who the hell in the Normandy crew could match up a quintuple voter? Only thing that comes to my mind is Legion, but even this is preposterous, as he was still only one person (well, Geth) on the Normandy.

b) Can you pile up all those votes on one player?

[Col.Cathart]

Fate & Baltar

:

What fishing? Fate already claimed quintuple voter. We know his role, so what is going to hurt town if we'll know if he's either Jacob, Legion, Thane or whoever else? Also, see below.

MMM:

@ Col. Cathart: Are you proposing a D1 massclaim? Because otherwise I can't see why you'd be interested in Fate's role.

Actually with this kind of setup, massclaim would be good here. I'm interested in Fate's flavor role for the sake of my own curiosity as a ME fan. He already claimed his role so I don't see anything wrong with asking for specific name claim...

1. Policy Lynching... need I say more?

2. Is set-up speculation scummy, even in a bastard game?

3. Lynch-all-Liars?

4. How well acquainted are you with the ME games/books?

1. As long as we are far from LyLo - sure, I'm all for it.

2. I don't think setup speculation is scummy at all, it helped me catch a few scum in my history.

3. Definitely

4. Played both games, know them very well + my friend is a ME geek, so even if I wouldn't know something, he definitely will know. Also, I didn't even know there are ME books.

-----------------------

So, to outline the most important part of my post:

I propose MassClaim.

My last bastard game learned me, that the less information town has, the worse. In bastard setting, town should play with open hand to minimize causalities thanks to lack of knowledge of bastard abilities + Standard pros and cons of typical massclaim. Thoughts?

[Col.Cathart]

Vote: Col. Cathart

Massclaiming now can only benefit scum. We don't even know how many scum factions there are.

Did you even read my explanation behind this proposition? This is a friggin bastard game. We need to know how much 'bastard' it is ASAP, before town will kill each other over, for example, 3 cop investigations from 3 guilty results and endless chain of mislynches will occur, because yes, there might really be 3 cops, and they may not really get the proper results. The sooner we'll know about any weird thing, Tony prepared for us, the better.

True, scum will gain from it as well, as they'll have easier picks for NK's, but benefits for the town will be much higher, because

a) Scum will have to fakeclaim, and the sooner they'll do it, the easier it will be for us to see through them.

b) Town will not suffer as much from 'bastardisation', as it will, if we'll leave the things as they are right now.

Also, I don't see how massclaim makes the town situation worse with more than one faction. Care to elaborate? And why do you even assume this possibility?

Alternatively, I can go without massclaim, but at least with people saying if their role is 'bastard friendly' (for example, Fate's quintuple voter IS a bastard friendly role)

[Col.Cathart]

@Cathart: Your logic behind the massclaim makes sense, I'm leaning towards supporting it. Is it both role and name claim or just one or the other?

Role claim is the important part. Name is not necessary, but why you should hold it back if you're claiming anyway? It can only work in your favor if it's your real role and the flavor fits with it...

[Col.Cathart]

Ok guys, first of all apologies for not posting yesterday. I was badly damaged during my Capoeira practice, and I had to take an emergency visit in hospital to check if all of my bones and ribs are still in one piece (thankfully, only one broken rib and minor concussion). Piece of advice: Don't try to do the acrobatics, you are not sure you can make with your current skills.

And now to the business:

About massclaim: Alright, alright, I get it. I can see this giant wall of NO!, so I'm not going to push it anymore, but don't tell me later I didn't warn ya. I still think though, this not as bad idea as some of you (especially Baltar) are stating. Speaking of Baltar:

How do you know he's serious? You were definitely rolefishing. In fact, I don't see why people aren't wagoning you right now.

Oh come on, this bullshit and you know it. If someone claims quintuple voter and votes 5 people right of the bat, his lie would be totally obvious after the first votecount. That was enough reason to believe he in fact IS claiming, and if he claimed his role I still don't see ANY way, how including your role name with it can harm town in any way.

But that was my reaction based on his very first post. His statement after few 'Lynch all Liars' comments, and not voting Kerristar, when he think he's scummy like Parama, now makes me think he in fact WAS joking. At the time of his claim though, I had no reason to disbelieve it.

And now, if you'll excuse, Imma going to reread the thread and find some scum. Expect another post soon.

[Col.Cathart]

vote: bv310

Very weak contribution so far. 3 posts, one is completely off-topic, one is only survey-answer, and one is disagreement with massclaim (for the record, I don't see anything wrong with this particular point), mindless sheeping hop on the wagon, and further lack of activity. I sense scum in attempt to run under the radar for as long as possible.

About main suspects:

Kerristar

: Limerick has a point about his behavior, but I'm naturally skeptic about this theory, mainly because I don't think Kerri actually did anything bad by agreeing to my MC proposition. Then there's those 'people agreeing with MC are scummy' opinions, but IMO it's bullshit. Could support the lynch, only if that would be needed for deadline 'must lynch somebody' situation.

Parama

: Please point out exactly and explain from a to z, where and how is Doombunny 'hiding something', 'hung up on it [massclaim]', as well, as why do you think 'Doombunny didn't move on' about massclaim. I think if someone actually wanted to say he wants to move on, that would be him.

I simply don't understand any point against DB you are raising, so I want you to explain it the most understandable way possible.

I also don't like Parama's ISO 10. I don't see a reason why townie would abstain from defending himself...

I can support this lynch.

Others:

I can also support any of the 'unreadable' players (like luke or ani for example) lynch.

Today I will not be lynching MMM, xRx or Fate.

Why not Reck? What did he did so pro-town? He's not very vocal, he's not scumhunting much, and he's not even supporting your 'ROAR, Col is scum!' theory.

I'm not telling Reck is scum, but he's extremely neutral to me, so I'm curious why he figures on your town list so much.

[Col.Cathart]

So instead of scumhunting you'd prefer me to defend myself? Oh no, I don't particularly give a damn about defending myself. I have that feeling that I'm right, everyone else is wrong, and Doombunny's buddy is helping build the failure of a case against me.

No, but you can do both. I don't know how one excludes another.

[Col.Cathart]

I can't explain my reasoning any more than I already have, guys. Stop asking for something I've already explained well.

Then I must be blind, because I still don't see it.

[Col.Cathart]

@ Col. Cathart: Why are you voting bv310 over animorpherv1, who has made even less content?

because ani posted NOTHING, so nothing scummy as well. Bv posted close to nothing, and what he did post was scummy. I'm fine with lynching both of them though.

Now can we please lynch Doombunny?

Based only on your gut? Not a chance.

BTW, is a gut a read the strongest thing you can come up so far? No one else did something scummy outside from your feelings?

[Col.Cathart]

DB: so... you still want me to answer your question or not?

(for the record: nameclaim is not bad either, and I'm all for it)

Last posts of ani and luke are horrible. Still very comfortable with lynching them.

[Col.Cathart]

I don't think a nameclaim would accomplish ANYTHING. The flavor of this game seems to be that some of the crew on the Normandy are planning a mutiny against Shepard. All a nameclaim would do is likely result in only listing off a shortlist of the Normandy crew members (Shepard, Liara, Garris, Tali, Joker, Wrex, Ashley, Jack, Thane, etc.) and give us no indication of who's scum, but give scum the ability to guess the flavor and find the power roles.

All I will say is that Reck's reasoning of the scum figuring out PRs makes no sense. If you are going to on the one hand say that role names mean nothing toward alignment (and I don't think they do), you can't on the other hand say that they mean something toward the type of role.

Also,

unvote

vote: Parama

Sadly, looks like bv is not going down today, so I'll go with Parama who's not a bad lynch either (for reasoning check my post 92).

[Col.Cathart]

Whoa, this lynch came sooner than I thought. Maybe even a bit too soon, as last time I checked the site, Parama was at L-3. Anyway, now it's pointless, but I want to have a little fun now...

Time for Ace Attorney: Investigations style logic.

Actually I shouldn't bother claiming at all. Something someone said earlier makes me feel my claim will get me lynched anyways.

Yay, now I don't get to claim!
Don't feel like claiming but I can say that if you don't lynch me Doombunny will die tonight.

First quote indicates, that someone already mentioned that particular name as a potential threat to Normandy.

Second quote indicates, Parama has some kind of killing ability.

By combining those two pieces of logic, I conclude Parama is Jack.

If I'm right, maybe that wasn't a bad lynch at all. If someone fits the bill for an SK on Normandy, it's definitely Jack. We'll see, I guess...

Also, ani/DB pair is interesting, I'll have to take a look at it tomorrow.

[Col.Cathart]

None of those are good reasons to claim on your very first post of the day. Sadly, I believe you. sigh.

Well, I don't. In fact, I have a damn good reason not to believe him.

vote: animorpherv1

[Col.Cathart]

None of those are good reasons to claim on your very first post of the day. Sadly, I believe you. sigh.

Well, I don't. In fact, I have a damn good reason not to believe him.

vote: animorpherv1

That is?

My own role, unless there are two vigs in here (incidentally, I send a kill message against you, but for some reason it didn't work).

Answer for the obvious question someone will ask in a while: I'm Thane Krios.

[Col.Cathart]

a) True, Thane is an assassin, but with a very strong moral code. He pledged loyalty to Shepard, and after doing such a thing, he couldn't betray him.

He's also at the verge of dying from a disease, and he joined Shepard after fulfilling his last contract in his career. Quest with Shepard will be last in his life, so he has even more reason NOT to spill blood of his crewmates.

b) Cult Leader stepping up to counter a vig claim, when it doesn't concern any cult at all? That makes no sense at all... (same thing with an SK to a lesser extent. Why should I counter-claim while being SK, if we're still from any end game situation, being caught with a lie means lynch, AND the fact, that vig claim still doesn't point in any bad way at me?) Very stupid assumption.

c) Everyone who played ME2 as a Renegade knows, that Garrus can act like an awful dick.

[Col.Cathart]

Whoa, yet another Vig?

True dat though, Joker WILL do anything for Normandy and Shepard. Considering his disease, I think it is possible for him to work with half (or even lower) rate success...

[Col.Cathart]

less worrying about flavor, more mafia playing.

I really don't like that you guys weren't shooting at bv310 or lukepukeduke btw. Those were pretty obvious vig baits.

That was my initial plan, but after that D1 hammer from ani, I wanted to test the water on DB/ani pairing.

a) Could possibly mean he is a Survivor, but with a Bastard Twist and has a gun.

b) So Cult doesn't die, and he gains town-credit

c) Doesn't apply to me. Never played ME/ME2. But beigna dick doesn't guarantee someone to be a SK. It means they have anger issuses.

a) Survivor with a fatal disease. Yeah, that makes sense

b) Cult dies with a cult leader. And even if not, usually loses chances to recruit. Even if not, it's still such a reckless action, it hurts.

c) Doesn't guarantee, but makes it a possibility.

[Col.Cathart]

You know... I usually would buy a 'multiple vig' explanation. This IS a bastard game, and lack of accuracy in the shots balances out so many kill sources. But the way, ani tries to paint me as a 3rd party in more and more ridiculous makes me think, he really was lying with that claim, and now tries to shift attention on me.

@The Col and Ani- Do you have any ideas as to why your shots didn't go through?

I don't have a faintest fucking idea... Nothing in my role tells me about not having 100% accuracy. I doubt anyone would protect ani during the night, Kerristar seems to be convinced I wasn't roleblcoked. Either some hidden rule, or some kind of divine intervention...

[Col.Cathart]

@Mod- I was voting Animorph, was I not?

Yes, you did in post 273, I just checked.

So, I guess Limerick hammered.

[Col.Cathart]

I don't get that Kerristar wagon. Or rather, I don't see that 'trying to end the day quickly' in his behavior. If you do not understand why just something happened (as in this case 'why ani isn't lynched if...'), you ask a mod. Simple as that. In second case, he corrected himself a minute after his previous post, and it looks genuine to me. Also, luke deserved that shit thrown at him for that vote IMO. He would deserve it even more if he would actually hammer.

I don't blame him for voting ani though. I have yet to figure though, if that was a weak bus attempt or stupid town behavior. Leaning to the former option.

Ani still needs to die. His last attempts at creating a luke wagon, to quickly changing his vote to Kerristar, probably in hope for another big wagon looks like a scum desperate attempt to claw his way out of the lynch trouble. Also:

And then that brings us up to now. Ani's last post when he thought he was hammered seems off. I'm not sure why, but it reminds me more of scum finally being caught rather than a townie getting mislynched.

This.

To conclude, ani lynch today, luke vig tonight (if my kill will go through this time, you have it guaranteed). And I think we'll be at home.

Next up, Col. Cathart's CC. This feels more forced to me.I don't know if it's because it came so quickly or because of the (effectively) third vig claim soon after.

I don't get it. That's a natural reaction for a anyone, when someone else claims their role. My first thought was 'bullshit, I'm a vig! Time to lynch the liar', and I went with it. I don't see it as a forced thing.

Also, I don't get how another vig claim AFTER makes MY claim forced.

Finally, I'm not sure what do you even mean by 'forced' (previous points are made by 'forced = shady, possibly not true' conclusion). Clarification would be nice.

[Col.Cathart]

Me, I killed luke. I still have no clue, what exactly makes my kill successful and what not, unless luke blocked me on N1.

[Col.Cathart]

That was of course an answer to Baltar's question about luke's killer.

[Col.Cathart]

I lied.

That's the point.

Indeed.

vote: xRECKONERx

Why did you lie?

[Col.Cathart]

So you're claiming, you are a Joker, the (yet another) normal vig? 3 vigs with different success rate is actually an option I would expect from a bastard game, but... Joker, the vig? I have to think hard about it... For now, my vote stays.

PS, bv310 masonized me N1. That's why I didn't want him lynched yesterday.

If waht you say is true (not assuming anything yet): Do you think, that masonization could neutralize your night ability?

WAIT FUCK

Add Col.C back to the scumlist. Forgot ani flipped vig, presumably truevig.

What can I say? I was probably even more surprised by that flip than anyone else. I definitely wouldn't come out to CC ani, if I wouldn't be a vig myself, as his claim wouldn't blow away my cover in any way. I really thought he was lying.

Scum is one of the following: Doombunny, Limerickx, VPB, Fate.

Actually... Why the Doombunny? The only thing I have on him right now is his weird statement about going after me if ani flipped normal vig, like he already knew the outcome, and tried to set up an easy lynch on me today. (that's more than I have on most of the people around anyway, but it's still not much).

[Col.Cathart]

A) I think it's possible for scum to skim their partner's death during the night. I mean, 'I see only one banner = one death. We tried to kill someone tonight so this kill = our kill. That means my scummy partner I want to bus is still alive. Time for post'. Doombunny definitely goes close to the top of my scumlist with this.

B) Reck is still on the top of it though. With more and more weird statements, corrections (masons, then not mason but neighbors) lies and now his supposed proof there's no more than one vig (I totally forgot about it)? Unless I'll hear from bv or some really good explanation about that vig thing from Reck, my vote is staying where it is.

[Col.Cathart]

@The Col and Fate- Is this the only reason you have for suspecting me? If one thing is the only reason you have for voting me (especially since it's flimsy enough as it is) then obviously you're doing something wrong.

Also, I'd like to hear an explanation from Reck before I decide if he's lynchworthy or not .

a) I'm not voting you.

b) Beside this one, there's also a thing I mentioned in my previous post, when I asked Reck about suspicions about you.

Skimming is understandable, but if you are already posting on something, do you research, dammit.

I'm fine with either Reck or DB lynch/vig.

This is one of the posts that Fate isn't going to read.

Well, it's a one liner, so I bet he WILL actually read this one

[Col.Cathart]

Gah, exam hell + AC/DC concert this evening. Post coming either today late in the night or tomorrow morning.

[Col.Cathart]

AC/DC concert this evening.

Best. Concert. Ever. Period.

Anyway...

How is it flimsy? My guess is that you didn't even bother to look. If I vote hop as town, then how the frak can you call it a scumtell on me? You're clearly grasping at straws and picked the wrong one.

Self-awareness of your own mate makes any meta-defense a null, at least in my opinion. I mean, if you do something as town and something else as scum, and you REALIZE it, there's no problem with meta-manipulation the next time it comes handy.

I'm not accusing VP here, lot's of people ARE vote hopping just because even as a town, so I'm not really seeing anything scummy here. Just wanted to add that paragraph above, because I really don't like the 'I'm doing this as a town all the time, so I'm obvtown, aye?' line of reasoning.

Also, for the time being, my vote stays on Reck. In addition to LaL and all that jazz, add his promised case delayed like 3 times, to finally become a one liner explaining absolutely nothing. Being neighborized by bv doesn't mean anything in terms of Reck's alignment.

I'm still fine with DB lynch though, if Reck's will be impossible.

[Col.Cathart]

Uhm...

Actually, I shot Limerick as well, based on a gut feeling...

Fun stuff, eh?

Anyway, I'm still all for a massclaim as I was on D1.

[Col.Cathart]

Kerristar
Fate
VP

That's my preferred Massclaim order.

I'm still 0% vig and he's 50% or something. Or maybe he's 100%.

My N1 kill didn't work, so I wouldn't stake any money on me being 100% vig, unless LPD blocked me that night.

Also, your plan about no-lynching and then vigging entirely defeats the purpose of no lynching. Aren't we going to do so, so we can have one scumkill and normal LyLo tomorrow? If any of us is going to vig tonight, we might just as well have normal lynch today.

[Col.Cathart]

Oh right

FATE WTF GET IN HERE

I'm tempted to think bv310 is scum neighborizer at the moment. Unsure on second person. I would totally put my money on C.C if he hadn't apparently shot LPD N2.

Why thank you.

And now, thanks to VP's claim, we know, why ani's kill didn't go through. One down, two other failkills to go. Maybe Fate will have more answers.

Looks like we're going to no lynch, so I'll keep my reads for myself for now.

[Col.Cathart]

N1: I GUARDED

MMM

FOR BEING FUCKIN OBVTOWN. I could care less Kerristar was a namecop since it was more likely a scum role in ADDITION to being useless (I'll get to Kerriscum after I'm done claiming).
ANYWAY Tony PM'd me back something along the lines of: I went to MysteryMan's room and saw him in a fight,

I also saw that he was a Turian and there was no way in hell I was dying for him. FAIL

MMM was NOT a Turian. He had Garrus in his avatar, but he was Ahley Williams, human.

Explain.

[Col.Cathart]

VP: Believe it or not, but I still genuinely think, that mass claim in bastard game is a good option, and that's why I proposed it even despite being vig. We get the orientation, how bastardly the setup is, scum needs to fakeclaim much quicker. The con is, we would lose the doc or other important role, but I think the pros would eventually outweigh that.

I would like to hear a specific case on bv, instead of 'SCUM NEIGHBORIZER LOL'

Fate's argument against Kerristar is bullshit. Why would you want to check someone who claimed already? To see if they claim was real. Simple as that. I don't see that obvious Kerriscum points he sees.

What's more, that Wrex claim just seems bogus to me.

vote: Fate

Bodyguard, that fails to bodyguard? Guh... Bad enough, but in a bastard game - possible...

Based on prejudice against other species? Now that's going into level of preposterous. Dirty humans? So we can already eliminate half of the crew. Turians? Another one. While we're at it, we might eliminate council races, Asari and Salarians, for deciding to infect Krogans with genophage, if we're going by the ME flavor. Geth? They are the enemies, right? Who's left to bodguard? Me and Limerick. Wow.

Above point would be somewhere in 'outguessing the mod' part of thinking... But that slip up with MMM makes me think that the entire drawback was created for fakeclaim reasons.

In short: I think Fate is a dirty liar (throughout the entire game BTW) with that claim. If there's anyone, I'm comfortable lynching with, that's him. Who's his partner? I dunno yet.

-----------

To all those people who are whining about my lack of activity:

Sorry, I can't do anything about it. Late May/early June is the time of finals on my uni, and I had to pick another job if I want to earn some cash for my vacation plans (I plan to visit Canada. Cross continental plane tickets are not cheap). I have a trouble with keeping up with my own modded game. If you think that's scummy - sorry for that, not my fault.

[Col.Cathart]

Also, Col. Good choice on country to visit. Whereabouts are you planning to go?

[offtopic]Entire Canada from East to West coast. All major cities + interesting places to visit. Even more expensive, so bonus job was a must for me[/offtopic]

[Col.Cathart]

Yeah, but what about Reck, who is vig who fails to vig? I agree with you that Fate's reasoning for failure is questionable, but I don't think reck has even given a reason for his failure.

I know, I'm again steering away into outguessing the mod, but if there's anyone on Normandy who's going to fail their actions for some reason - it's going to be Joker.

Kerristar seems to confirm, that Reck is Joker. Unless they are both scum (and with my suspicions on Fate that seems doubtful at the moment), that means Reck's claim is real, and of all Normandy crew members, I doubt Joker would be the evil one.

Still, that 'Turian, oh wait Dirty Human' stuff is the thing that sets my alarm on. This whole drawback seems just stupid even for the standards of a Bastard game, and additional contradiction just spices up my uneasy feeling about him.

Also, it's not that Fate was a shining avatar of towniness at any point in this game... He was very troublesome to read even before the claim.

@ Col. - What do you think of my proposed no lynch plan? If Fate is telling the truth I'll survive the night. If scum kill me, then you would know for sure that he's lying about his role.

I'm fine with no lynch, if I'll be unable with lynching Fate today.

[Col.Cathart]

Colonel you're assuming that my guard failed due to flavor, and not due to some other mechanic with a flavor PM thrown in for Tonylulz.

No, I'm assuming you 'guard' failed, because you are not a bodyguard at all.

But I guess everyone else is solved on no lynch plan... So be it...

unvote

vote: no lynch

In advance: I'm not going to shoot anyone tonight.

[Col.Cathart]

As I told yesterday, I didn't shoot anyone.

Not much time, more later. Fate is still scum to me though...

[Col.Cathart]

So yeah, bv310 and Colonel are my guess for now. Colonel claimed to have shot Luke the night he died... but didn't xRECK also claim to have shot him? What's to say Colonel hasn't just been claiming the ONLY NKs that have happened the past few days?

1) No, Reck tried to kill Doombunny

2) No, MMM is not my kill. Neither is Kerristar. I'm not even that sure about Limerick as that might just as well Reck who also hit him

You are AGAIN coming out with things to which the only possible answer is 'uhm, no. What a bullshit'.

Start reading the game before attacking anyone.

xRECK this "botched" claim shit that you and Colonel keep bringing up is nonsense. I claim WITHOUT reading through all my PMs based off my memory of this game (hey I'm in 10 other games too, sue me) is all that happened. All my night actions and role information is correct.

You know, it's not ONLY this. You are quintuple voter... Only not really. You have secret informations about no kills... Only when VP states he has them as well, you are bluffing and have nothing. You are claiming to be a bodyguard, but you failed to protect the right frigging target. You have absolutely no evidence to show us that you really are a role you said you are.

Diagnosis: lying scum.
Treatment: lynch.

A new theory I'm also working on is that I was roleblocked N1 (no one else claimed it, so....) and Tony's PM telling me my action failed meant BLOCKED not "lulz failrole action fail." Which means the only reason my block didn't work N1 was because of Luke and not because I guarded a human.

Well, there's also a case of Recks and mine kills that didn't work on N1, so that just as well may be one of us who got blocked.

Also this may be a bastard game, but explaining being roleblocked in a flavor of prejudice against other species? Nope, it doesn't add up, and 'lulz bastard game' is not an universal answer for anything.

I'm starting to think that, but it's really an issue for tomorrow since he can't kill me. I suspect he killed kerri bc she was the only one who could out him.

This also applies to you, you know? Maybe you didn't want to Kerri to know, that you are not really 'Urdnot Wrex, the Krogan', as you are claiming...

--------------------

About those SK accusation of Fate (jesus, this sounds epically weird): I will say the exactly same thing I told to Reck on D3 when he proposed that:

As a Serial Killer, my action to counterclaim ani would make no sense at all. Ani's claim was not destroying any cover, nor anything. As an SK I would risk life (and therefore losing the game) for what? One mislynch on D2. It makes no sense for me to act like that as an SK.

I counterclaimed, because I am a vig, and I genuinely thought ani was lying.

------------------

Who would be the partner of Fate? At this point I think it's bv thanks to elimination method. Reck seems obvious town at this point after Kerri's flip, and VPB is a strong town player since D1. So there's only bv left for now.

[Col.Cathart]

Well, I just don't see a scenario where there are two scum left. I've tried to make connections and it doesn't work.

You and Fate don't work (as a team) because you're both protection type roles.

However, I don't see either of you working on a team with bv310 because you're BOTH pushing for his lynch.

Col.Cathart doesn't work with anyone as scum because he shot lukepukeduke.

bv310 alone as scum with Col.Cathart as the SK is literally the only thing that makes sense in my head.

Well, what about Fate AND bv?

I think, this is just the case here. They are bussing each other, and hope to get some town cred for it, and then push 'CC is SK' logic for the (scum) win.

Fate scum would also explain two protective roles gamebreaker.

I'm not going to repeat myself for the third time. If someone have a better theory that I'm the SK, I'm willing to hear and respond.

[Col.Cathart]

That's because you think it's possible to outguess me. It's like trying to divide by zero. -.-

I'm dividing by zero all the time on my math courses. (well ok, 0+ or 0- but still... )

[Col.Cathart]

All right, enough of this nonsense...

vote: bv310

One scum down, one Fatescum to go.

[Col.Cathart]

Allright...

I did shot Fate. You should see it coming from miles away after last two days.

I need to think more about who's the last scum though.

Reck is confirmed Joker via Kerri's investigation. On the other hand, Reck is also ultra adamant on lynching me, so VPscum could just hop the wagon for the scum victory.

VP makes a good point though. What the hell happened to all those scum kills except the first night? Either really good targeting by VP, or someone just makes an elaborate plan here.

Reck, can you recap who did you shoot each night?

For clarity sake, those are mine:

N1 - ani (didn't work, still dunno why)
N2 - LPD (worked apparently)
N3 - Limerick (probably worked)
N4 - Nobody
N5 - Fate (probably worked)

For now, I'm more inclined to believe that Reck is the last scum, though this Joker part still doesn't fit the puzzle.

[Col.Cathart]

OH OF COURSE HE SHOT FATE. SERIOUSLY?

yup.

And he also happened to shoot Kerristar too. Something doesn't add up.

Of course something doesn't add up. And that thing is, I didn't shoot Kerristar at all. Looks like not checking up the facts is the chronic disease of players in this game, even if it was stated ONE post above.

N1 - Doombunny
N2 - Doombunny
N3 - Limerickx
N4 - Kerristar
N5 - Fate

So... Two failed kills, two 'shared' kills with me, and a kill on pro-town player when no other kill happened...

I shot Fate last night. End of story. If C.C shot him too, good for him.

What's with this sudden bactrack? Just a post earlier you were so eager to convince anyone I didn't actually shoot him, and all my claims are bogus. Now you are going back to your earlier SK nonsense speculation. Looks like you are trying to frame me, but you were still not sure whether you want to push the third scum, or SK route, and it just created an inconsistence.

I don't see how scum could have two protection roles. That's why I've cleared you in my mind.

Of all reasons to call VP town, you choose probably the only one questionable. Doc claim is impossible to check. As far as we know, he could've just be the last scum, who can claim picking up the wrong protection target all the time, or hell, even fake some no night kills to gain additional credibility.

I'm not implying anything of course. VP played as townie as possible in this game, and as I said in my earlier post, as a scum he could just shut up and wait for Reck to vote (which is inevitable at this point) me for the hammer. I just think it's really interesting, that Reck immediately cleared VP basing his logic just on a claim which is uncheckable.

Yup, after that last few posts I'm more solved on Reck being the last mafia.

[Col.Cathart]

Anyhow, CC, what do you think of my plan that you and Reck should just shoot each other tonight after no lynch? Then I survive and win the game for town.

Seems like auto-town win, so I'm all for it.

[Col.Cathart]

God, C.C is so clearly a SK. I know there's not much way for me to convince you of that, VPB, because you didn't see the whole game from my perspective... but he just

is

. He happens to shoot Fate and (correction from above post)

Limerickx

on the same day as me. I don't know how else LPD could've been killed... but the fact that that is the ONLY kill this entire game was LPD doesn't sit right with me. N1 didn't work for him, N2 he killed LPD, N3 and N5 he "shared" a kill with me, and N4 he didn't kill anyone.

Uhmm... What's your point here? I fail to see how that part is incriminating me in any way.

Kerristar had confirmed my claim as Joker, too... if I were mafia, why would I kill the person who had confirmed my claim? IIRC, they weren't even on my ass or trying to lynch me, either.

Simple. If for some reason Joker is the scum role in this game (and now I'm suspecting it is), killing (ergo confirming the role of) Kerristar, confirms you being Joker, giving you an excellent cover. Considering that Fate actually WAS Wrex so he had a good claim to cover himself as well, I don't see any other reason why would anyone even pick him up.

Same with Fate. But, of course, there's still this whole argument over whether or not I actually shot him. I'm seriously so fucking pissed off...

I shot Fate and I'm damn proud for hitting scum

.

I seriously doubt that (more on that later).

Bull. Shit. I've been pushing for you being the SK the whole day. VPB is the one who doesn't think it's 2/1, but I see no other way it could be anything else. It's a might smart gambit you've got going on, though... claim the kills in such a way it looks like you're town and I'm the last mafia. If you claim both mafia kills, then it makes me look like the third mafia to VPB. But the fact of the matter is

I shot Fate

so I can CLEARLY see what you're trying to do here.

Then what is your point in trying to convince VP that I wasn't involved in shooting Limerick or Fate. Isn't me NOT killing them makes me less of an SK? I'm trying to understand your case beside 'VP is not scum therefore CC is' point, but it just doesn't make any sense.

Problem with the no lynch thing: as I've said before, there's clearly something weird going on with the kills. I refuse to no lynch when 1) I

know

C.C has to be the SK, and 2) We don't even know if my kill would go through since apparently it hasn't in the past and I don't want to just hand C.C the game like that.

Or, you're just scum who is afraid to lose the game.

PS, VPB, every kill has been claimed. Please try and keep up.

LOL! (see below)

N1 - vig kill (ani) on MMM

N2 - SK kill (CC) on LPD
N3 - backup vig kill (Reck) on Limerickx
N4 - since I was the only one to submit a kill that night when it was supposed to be the SK's night to shoot, I kill Kerristar
N5 - backup vig kill (Reck) on Fate

bold is mine.

When I heard Parama essentially say that he could kill, I thought he was either a SK or a mafia member, because I am a vig. Last night, I shot KerriStar because he had the most votes on him, but it didn't go through.

That's why I loled when you asked VP to keep up. You are wrong again. Also, N1 kill is still not claimed by anyone, and therefore I presume scum. Good thing I have a good memory, otherwise you would get away with this stunt.

I took over ani's kill slot when he died

and I became his backup. There hasn't actually

been

a mafia kill... that's the trick here I think. It alternates between town vigs and SK, and the mafia have to manipulate the kills in such a way that they get town to kill each other. Hence the roleblocker and the bodyguard.

OBJECTION!

Your honor, the bolded statement clearly contradicts Reck's post 247

Yes, I shot Doombunny last night - I can only shoot on odd nights. I'm Joker and my flavor involves me doing anything to protect this ship.

When Parama died, I picked up his gun and became an odd night vig.

Fate contradicted himself a lot before. Contradictions are scummy in general. More scum points for Reck.

Also, the later part of the bolded sentence in 247 reminded me, that Reck has actually a history of bullshiting us. First there was 'no more than one vig, I haz evidence' (which he didn't have) and here you have the part about odd night vig.

bv310 also suspected a SK. So clearly it's not just me.

Fate also suggested that. Your argument is invalid.

PS, I'd like to point out that so far, alignments have fit flavor. I know it's always a bit shady to figure it out... but... I've made a setup before where the flavor worked out so well that it allowed people to figure out who the last scum is. The two most questionable of alliance in the games, Wrex and Legion, have flipped scum. Wrex was always a renegade who wasn't THAT loyal to Shepard, and Legion was a fucking Geth. Out of the remaining claims... we have Mordin, who was always a nice guy/loyal in the game. We have Joker, who has been by Shepard's side in BOTH games and nearly gave his life to protect Shepard when the Normandy got ripped apart. Then we have Thane Krios... who is and was a serial killer/assassin in the games

Except, Wrex was a HUGE ally of Shepard on Tuchanka in ME2. On the other side of spectrum, Jack who was a psychopathic killer turned out to be a good role. Again, your argument is invalid (oh, and Thane was not a serial killer. I see what did there though).

--------------------------------------

Wow, that last post made the Reck's scuminess so much more clear to me. Now, I'm sure he's the last scum. That would make MMM and Kerristar kills mafia kills... Which would make sense, considering MMM was a strong pro town player, and Kerristar thing which was explained by me above.

So what IMO actually happened last night? I shot Fate, and either him or Reck tried to kill me, but VP stopped it.

[Col.Cathart]

I never said it was a case. The main point of my belief that you are the SK is that it's not VPB, and there are plenty of strange occurrences which have me scratching my head. Mafia don't have a kill... seriously. There has to be a SK. C.C came out and counterclaimed ani D1, right?

Typical SK play - counterclaim the vig.

No mafia-kill theory seems very unlikable. Even more so from my point of view (more on that later). Also:

a) No, I counterclaimed him during D2.

b) About the bolded part... What? That kind of play makes sense for a Serial Killer only in LyLo or other thing like that. During D2 it would be suicide, not a typical SK play. What's more, you even agreed with me on that statement in your post 360:

What can I say? I was probably even more surprised by that flip than anyone else. I definitely wouldn't come out to CC ani, if I wouldn't be a vig myself, as his claim wouldn't blow away my cover in any way. I really thought he was lying.

Point taken.

Moving on...

Or, based on the kill order I explained earlier, I likely won't be able to kill tonight since I believe I am either 50% or my kills get priority only on odd nights or something like that. I didn't know ani didn't kill MMM... I've been operating under that belief for most of the past few days.

Ok, so let's go back to your theory. Now you know, that it was not ani who killed MMM, as he tried to kill Kerristar. So, if by your theory there is no scum-kill... Then who killed MMM? It wasn't ani, it wasn't me, and it wasn't you. So who, if not scum? Your theory holds no water, and that's why I think it's bullshit.

He... was? My interactions with Wrex didn't quite turn out that way.

He did a friendly bodyslam with my Shepard, told other Krogan to shut the fuck up and help Shepard with anything he wants, and really helped with Grunt's initiation.

Also, Jack is a romance option in the game, who became a psychopathic killer because it was outside of her realm of control... experiments were done on her and turned her that way. Thane is a killer/assassin by trade.

Still, a psychopatic killer (and the one that even in the game wanted to pulverize Miranda) with a pro-town role. And Thane retired from being assassin right before joining Shepard. He also swore his loyalty to him so it would against all of his moral codes to betray him.

I can swing the ball back all day in terms of ME2 flavor. We're going here into 'outguessing the mod' territory again though, so I suggest stopping this branch of conversation, unless you really want to continue it.

Fuck you.

I shot Fate

you fucker. This is pissing me off now.

Please, refrain yourself from any personal insults. This is only a game.

This isn't important. From a scum point of view, Kerristar didn't suspect me.

Last post of Kerristar before his death:

(...)

With the amount of killing roles in this game I find both Fate and VP's roles believable, their play also supports it. One of xReckx or Colonel is lying about their vig role,

more likely xReckx because his lying about his vig ability plus the 0% shot he keeps mentioning just looks like he is trying to hide behind the bastardization of the game. Whoa. Neighborizer...with xReckx? I can easily see Bv having chosen to "neighborize" his scumpartner, and they'll probably call their scumtopic their 'neighbor" topic.

BV doesn't even have to actually be a neighborizer, he can just use his quicktopic to cover for it, and the fact that its called neighborizer helps provide a sense of different factions, essentially distancing from xReckx.

Looks like he did suspect you after all. I missed that earlier. Re-reads are gold.

Doombunny wasn't attacking me, I just thought he was scummy (this was reflected in the votes I placed each day as well).

Mkay, I'm not going to argue with that. Doombunny didn't die though, so there is a room left for speculation, especially from my point of view.

Limerickx seemed like an outside chance for under-the-radar scum... and apparently you agreed, Mister Serial Killer.

Again, not going to argue with that, except that Serial Killer part, which I'm arguing with you since the very beginning of this day.

Kerristar's role

didn't make sense

as a town role in the grand scheme of things

Elaborate. I never doubted his role, and it was perfectly fine with his earlier play, especially the fullclaim vs nameclaim debate. Add to that his last post before death, and... Something starts to stink here with that kill...

and Fate was obvscum after the botched claim.

Tell me about it. I wanted his death since D4.

Nothing I did makes sense from a scum perspective.

As you can see, at some points it have. Other points are not provable (like those two failed attempts on Doombunny or who actually killed Limerick [or Fate for that matter]).

Preview EDIT:

Actually... Hold on. This is Limerick's ISO. Check his last posts before death. Who was his last suspect? Yup, you guessed it. So there was a reason for Reckscum to kill him after all.

[Col.Cathart]

BWACHACHA!

Tony. You are a genius!

High Five Reck, and sorry I tried to discredit your shot at Fate. After all, that was my role in this game (and I really did shoot him)