Pick Your Power III: A Brave New World

[Hoopla]

##Vote: Pomegranate

[Hoopla]

Vanilla for WHAT?

Try again.

Hoopla next

Fuck off, I am not claiming. I refuse to turn this game into a logic puzzle on Day 1 when half this town isn't in any way logical.

[Hoopla]

##Unvote, ##vote: Porkens

[Hoopla]

##Unvote, ##vote: Parama

[Hoopla]

##Unvote,
##vote: SerialClergyman

[Hoopla]

Because I love him.

[Hoopla]

[Hoopla]

I'm pretty sure Hoopla is town. I could be getting played but I don't know why she'd play like that as scum. I'm willing to bank on it.

idk, i guess i am sick of being the devils avacado.

[Hoopla]

SerialClergyman.

[Hoopla]

Okay.

##Unvote,
##vote: Pomegranate

[Hoopla]

He sounds truthful Faraday. Lets just get rid of Pom.

[Hoopla]

DGB, have you got a crush on me?

[Hoopla]

nay

[Hoopla]

i'd rather be lynched today if it prevented a massclaim.

[Hoopla]

Even is massclaim gets another vote, I'm still not participating in it.

[Hoopla]

What's the soras case beyond winning the draft?

[Hoopla]

my soras case is ISO 25 if you wanna take a peek

So, a catalogue of weak, occasional scumtells? That isn't a case - that's you just choosing one person, sifting through their posts and choosing a scumtell that fits. Pick anyone on the playerlist and I'll make a dramonic-style case that rivals the one you put up for sorasgoof, just to prove my point.

[Hoopla]

Soras ISO:
2 is a thinly veiled pseudo-attack on Parama
3 is a heavy backpedal after previous attack (if you think he plays differently, it probably means
his alignment is different)
4-6 is setup speculation
10 is fluff
11 is an attack (which is kinda decent I admit) ended with a... FoS?
12 is AtE
15 sounds like giving up
16-17 is a misrep, though he's not the only on who's done it so that is okay.

Additionally he hasn't put a single vote down since the beginning of the game and really, he's stated no strong opinion on anyone (except SMAP)
I dont hate Sora, I love him for being so obvscum ;P

SerialClergyman ISO:
2-7 is setup speculation
8 calls me town without providing reasoning.

And

votes Pom without reasoning.
9-12 is set-up speculation/fluff.
15-16 is fluff
17 talks Zang into voting Pom - still no reasoning provided.
19 weak suspicion on Sando based on numbers.
21-24 massclaim/set-up speculation
25 buddying to Sando - weird when he questioned him earlier.
26 says soras wagon is decent - again, no reasoning.
28 weak attack
29 another weak attack on Fate

Additionally he has only placed one vote for the whole game, for reasons still unclear. He's even commented on other wagons being decent, yet still holded firm with his weak vote on Pom. Too much fluff and set-up speculation and no real scumhunting, derp derp derp.

---

See how easy that is?

[Hoopla]

Lets get the Pom wagon rivaling soras', Serial.

[Hoopla]

Also, Hoopla, my appreciation of you is lessened by your 603.

I am equally disenchanted with you, my friend.

Vote Pom.

[Hoopla]

I am highly likely to be town (and so is Faraday, another keen supporter), so you can just trust me for now. I'll make the game-breaking cases later when Pom provides some more posts to sift through.

[Hoopla]

Socrates, I have like such low chances of being scum, though.

[Hoopla]

Can someone help me complete this list? Am I missing any claims/information here? I think there are a couple of Vanilla claims I'm missing.

2,12 sorasgoof (Even-Night-Vig)

10,1 Pomegranate (Tracker)
11,7 Sando

12,3 Porkens (Odd-Night-Vig)

13,7 Dramonic

1,1 SerialClergyman (Watcher)

1,1 manho
3,6 Socrates
3,6 Zoiaum
5,4 Ellibereth
5,15 Drippinggoofball (Vanilla)
6,1 superawesomemegapimp

6,2 Budja (Vanilla)

7,3 Fate
7,11 Parama (Vanilla Janitor)
4,5 PranaDevil
4,7 CryMeARiver
4,8 12keyblade
9,2 Zang
9,4 Faraday
9,9 Hoopla
9,15 mb53 (Vanilla Backup)

Well, look at scum at the top of the tree here. We now know Pomegranate is highly likely to be town, unless this is some sort of ridiculous gambit (sorry Pom, btw). I'd also suggest Sando is quite likely to be town, especially if he can confirm he isn't a Universal Backup, Redirector or Janitor.

It's also quite likely that the Soras' wagon was very town driven

unless

scum has the Universal Backup, which makes a Day 1 bus of one of their best roles a feasible play, as it hides the vig again.

We know the Universal Backup is in play somewhere, and I think the town should decide who to kill with that shot. My opinion is that we should shoot from this chunk of the list;

1,1 manho
3,6 Socrates
3,6 Zoiaum
5,4 Ellibereth
5,15 Drippinggoofball
6,1 superawesomemegapimp

...with a preference for manho, Zoiaum or SAMP.

[Hoopla]

A message to whoever the new vig is;

4,5 PranaDevil
4,7 CryMeARiver
4,8 12keyblade
9,2 Zang
9,4 Faraday
9,9 Hoopla
9,15 mb53

At best

there is two scum in this cross section of players, with a real chance of only one or even none, and if you decide to shoot from there, you are forfeiting any chance of survival if you're discovered to be the vig.

[Hoopla]

I'd tell you what you're missing but that would just give scum more info(because you're scum).

Also you missed my daycop softclaim a few pages back, I'm surpised I'm still alive.

Each night you may target a player. If successful, you will get a result of town or mafia.

That's nice.

---

Also, do you seriously think if I were scum I'd let my team get into this position so early in the game, and choose such roles? I would never take the vigs if I had two top 5 draft picks - there's so many more better role combinations, especially ones safer to a potential massclaim that give more outs.

Whatever claims have been made, there is no way scum don't have it posted up in their daytalking QT. I remember other instances of players forgetting who had claimed/softclaimed - it's in the town's interest for a neatly organised post of critical information. Also, you're a tool.

[Hoopla]

Manho...

...Why worry about quicklynches in the same post as putting Porkens at L-1?

[Hoopla]

and to claim way before L-1 and a possible vig kill, as parama suggest, i'm the redirector. i take it simply to not let the scum team have it.

Did you use it for anything last night?

[Hoopla]

So, we're to trust you're not scum using this secret information? If you're seriously that worried about scum getting a hold of information, you wouldn't tell them there is some out there.

Fate, I think you're just paranoid for paranoid sake due to me toweling you up last game.

[Hoopla]

What odds do you give me of being scum?

[Hoopla]

At least I know Socrates is town.

Pom, who did you track last night?

[Hoopla]

Those trying to glean information from yesterday's wagon are silly - we had confirmed scum. There is little to no credit dished out for players on/off the wagon.

Fate, what are the chances of Sando or dramonic being scum?

[Hoopla]

You think scum got 3 of the top 4 picks?

[Hoopla]

DGB, what was the role you were trying to get?

[Hoopla]

2,12 sorasgoof (Even-Night-Vig)

10,1 Pomegranate (Tracker)

11,7 Sando

12,3 Porkens (Odd-Night-Vig)

13,7 Dramonic

1,1 SerialClergyman (Watcher)
1,1 manho (Redirector)

3,6 Socrates

*

3,6 Zoiaum
5,4 Ellibereth

*

5,15 Drippinggoofball (Vanilla)

6,1 superawesomemegapimp (Vanilla)
6,2 Budja (Vanilla)

7,3 Fate
7,11 Parama (Vanilla Janitor)
4,5 PranaDevil
4,7 CryMeARiver (Vanilla Gunsmith)
4,8 12keyblade
9,2 Zang
9,4 Faraday

*

9,9 Hoopla

*

9,15 mb53 (Vanilla Backup)

*

*

Asterix denotes dice rollers. Fate, Keyblade and Parama were not counted as dice rollers, as they either changed their roll or left themself the option to change.

Interestingly we've whittled down the neighbourhoods (X numbers) to 7, after eliminating the 6's and 1's. So, I think we're almost at the stage where we can guess with a decent amount of accuracy what sort of number combination scum picked. Here are my conclusions;

- At most there is one scum in the 9 group. Zang is very likely to be town, for if he was scum he had no incentive to choose 9, and surely his scumteam would have told him to change if he wasn't paying attention himself.
- Fate rolled 9 and then bailed, changing his number to 7. This is likelier to be a scum move concerned about self interest, rather than upholding something he committed himself to. If true, it paints the 9 group in a townier light.
- At most there is one scum in the 4 group, due to none of them being dice rollers. It is highly likely the last 3 scum are in separate groups.
- If none of the 9's is scum, one of Sando/dramonic or the 7's is highly likely to be scum. This is due to scum quite likely wanting to spread their numbers out, rather than putting them all together. This is also the same reasoning against a dramonic/Sando scumteam because I doubt scum would choose 2, 11, 12, 13 as their numbers. At most they would have chosen two high numbers.
- Socrates probably isn't scum, because I think he wouldn't have gone for both vigs with the high draft picks. He is a dominant character (just look at the sign-up thread), he is very likely to lead his team if he was scum, and I think he genuinely believed massclaim could break the game.
- The gunsmith, whoever that is, is almost certainly town. Scum have no incentive to take gunsmith if they're going for the vigs. It could be a useful role-cop type role if they decided not to take the vigs, but they didn't.
- The janitor not claiming means whoever it is, is scum.
- Scum probably chose at least one (but probably two) of 3, 4, 5 so they had a decent chance of winning the draft.

Here is my scumteam predictions;

One of Sando/dramonic, One of Zoiaum/12Keyblade/Prana (probably Zoiaum). I could see one of DGB/Elli being scum, but I'm not sure about either yet. I also have my eye on the 7's group, but I'm thinking town/town. Parama probably isn't scum, because if everyone above him dies without there being a Janitor, it is curtains for him (unless he is scum with whoever the Janitor is, but I doubt it).

If there is only one point you take away from this post, make it this;

It looks very likely at this point that the remaining scum are on 3 different numbers, and if true, we should be eliminating entire neighbourhoods (ie; single numbers) to minimise the amount of possible scumteams.

[Hoopla]

DGB, what was the role you were trying to get?

Watcher. I really like Watcher. More than Tracker. I thought it wouldn't be uber-popular.

I think I know what's going on...

Hey DGB, is Sando scum? Rank these players in terms of scumminess; Sando, dramonic, Zoiaum.

[Hoopla]

If either of dramonic/Sando is scum, it really looks like it will be Sando when you compare their individual stances to the sorasgoof wagon.

##Vote: Sando

---

DGB, there is little point analysing the Porkens wagon when he was confirmed scum. I know there were several players around prepared to vote/hammer Porkens, but it was in the interest of the town to wait for actions to be sent in.

[Hoopla]

Yeah, the Porkens wagon, not super-informative overall.

Why Sando over Zoiaum?

If the last 3 scum are on different numbers (neighbourhoods), it's a smarter town play to eliminate entire neighbourhoods, because players in smaller groups have a higher chance of being scum (barring other information). For the sake of this experiment, lets assume the 3 scum have been randomly allocated to one of the 7 numbers with no overlap. This gives

each

group a ~43% chance of having a scum in it.

If we look at group 9 (Hoopla, Faraday, mb53, Zang). It has (like every other group) a 43% chance of having scum in it, and if so, each individual player has a 25% chance of being scum within it.

If we look at group 11 (Sando). This group also has the 43% chance of having scum in it, but as opposed to larger groups, only has one player within it, meaning it must be Sando.

The same principle applies to every other group, with the doubles being 43% and then 50% within it, while the triple group being 43% and then 33% within it. It makes sense to lynch from a smaller group, because I don't value my scum-Zoiaum read twice as much as Sando.

Of course, this all operates on the basis that scum have different numbers, but I am quite confident about this.

[Hoopla]

To simplify;

The large neighborhoods have a greater likelihood of having scum in them, than the small ones.

This cancels out the dubious benefits of shooting scum in the small barrels of the smaller groups.

I think that makes sense, I've never really thought about it that way.

I can support a Zoiaum lynch for now. We still need to see what happens with Pom/dramonic though.

##Unvote
##Vote: Zoiaum

[Hoopla]

I assume you're referencing this DGB.

Also Prana, tell me more about this Zoiaum town read.

Role based. Saying no more until tomorrow when I propose a mass claim to get info from cop/doc as well, and have (one would hope) plenty of confirmed townies thanks to that.

We have better leads today (Sando/Dram/DGB/Hoopla) personally, and they're a much better direction to go in.

I'm not taking softclaims seriously from someone potentially scum. There is really little to no point in softclaims from a town perspective - you are signalling you have some sort of power role, which benefits scum more than ambiguous information we have to take his word on does for town.

[Hoopla]

I'm back to being scum again. Yay.

[Hoopla]

Can you prove me town next?

[Hoopla]

Okay.

[Hoopla]

Why take a punt on a 25% chance in Group 9 now?

[Hoopla]

Why take a punt on a 25% chance in Group 9 now?

I'm scumhunting. Screw the draft order, scum can still be anywhere on the list.
If you are implying that you think one of the 9-group is scum, Faraday is far and away the most likely scum. Really he's the only one I'd consider for scum right now.

I think it's likely there is 0 or 1 scum in Group 9. Zero is based on me knowing I am town, but from everyone elses perspective 0 or 1 is still a sensible estimation.

Faraday is probably town.

[Hoopla]

2.)Dramonic
8.)mb53
9.)Parama
10.)Zoiaum
12.)Super Awesome Mega Pimp!
21.)12keyblade

taking prana devil out of my scum list got a good feeling about him. 2 scum in here @ a guess. probably wrong about someone as usual.

probably super awesome mega pimp is my guess.

[Hoopla]

Can you prove me town next?

G

O

D

F

A

T

H

E

R

R

I

F

I

C

doesn't exist!!!!1

[Hoopla]

I thought dramonic was probably scum who killed manho, and the Universal backup is his buddy somewhere else down the order. But why would scum improve their chances of being tracked to a kill? They could have just had the vig submit both kills.

I think it's possible dramonic is the scum-vig, and they were worried about the same thing that happened to Porkens, so they spread their kills. Universal Backup doesn't seem like a super pro-town move to me, when you are so high up. There are plenty of other nice roles.

[Hoopla]

Nice play theiving the Janitor Socrates. Although, I'm wondering you were pushing massclaim when it is quite likely you would have come under a lot of pressure for having the Janitor role.

[Hoopla]

Official Vote Count

Players needed to Lynch : 9

Sando

- 1 -

mb53

- (L-8)

mb53

- 1 -

Sando

- (L-8)

Dramonic

- 6 -

Fate

,

Ellibereth

,

DrippingGoofball

,

Socrates

,

Parama

,

Pomegranate

- (L-3)

Zoiaum

- 1 -

Hoopla

- (L-8)

Players not voting 7 : 12keyblade, CryMeARiver, Dramonic, Faraday, PranaDevil, Zang, Zoiaum

I could agree with leaving you alive for one night if it must happen, but not for longer. We can't let you live on until endgame.

Dramonic doesn't have a shot tonight, so no, there is no point in that. We either lynch him now, or he lives for two nights. I'm probably in the 'lynch him now camp', because that is just too long to wait for someone with a decent chance of being scum.

[Hoopla]

##Unvote
##Vote: dramonic

[Hoopla]

Why Hoopla?

[Hoopla]

Why is that a scum tell?

[Hoopla]

I think you always think I am scum, DGB.

[Hoopla]

Wasn't a defense - a general observation. I expect to post a detailed defense, responding to some of your points and what I assume others to be soon, and a full list of reads.

[Hoopla]

So, there has been talk about lynching down the list, because have 5 mislynches up our sleeve before we lose. There has also been talk that I should be the first one to go, or need to go at some stage. If that is the case, I'd rather go first and have a massclaim today to try and clear some more people. Here is what we have so far, I think;

2,12 sorasgoof (Even-Night-Vig)

10,1 Pomegranate (Tracker)

11,7 Sando

12,3 Porkens (Odd-Night-Vig)

13,7 Dramonic (Universal Backup)

1,1 SerialClergyman (Watcher)
1,1 manho (Redirector)

3,6 Socrates (Janitor)

*

3,6 Zoiaum (Mason Weak Doctor)

5,4 Ellibereth

*

5,15 Drippinggoofball (Vanilla Watcher)

6,1 superawesomemegapimp (Vanilla)
6,2 Budja (Vanilla)

7,3 Fate

7,11 Parama (Vanilla Janitor)

4,5 PranaDevil (Mason)

4,7 CryMeARiver (Vanilla Gunsmith)
4,8 12keyblade
9,2 Zang
9,4 Faraday

*

9,9 Hoopla

*

9,15 mb53 (Vanilla Backup)

*

*

Asterix denotes dice rollers. Fate, Keyblade and Parama were not counted as dice rollers, as they either changed their roll or left themself the option to change.

I think at the very least, we can safely assume the Gunsmith is town, because scum have zero interest in taking a gunsmith when they own most of the guns anyway. We can then hopeful clear another 1 or 2 people from this claim, or catch CryMeARiver lying if there is in fact no Gunsmith in this game. We don't know if a cop or role-cop exists, but everyone else should claim their role before the Gunsmith claims it's results. This is to ensure any potential players with guns can't escape a Gunsmith investigation.

I'm not sure what order we should massclaim in, but I think with what we have left, there is a decent chance we can crack the game open now for town.

---

Other stuff pertaining me (mostly DGB's case) - My adverse reaction to massclaiming early on Day 1 was to prevent this game devolving into a logic puzzle, when scum presumably have the upper hand in this scenario. The only decent argument FOR massclaim I saw was locking scum into claims, which I think would have been significantly outweighed the risks of exposing our most potent roles. Because what you had to remember is if scum were pushing massclaim early, it is possible they chose pro-town roles or unisex roles, and who are you going to lynch? The townies like Socrates/manho who opted to stop the scum getting pro-scum roles. Basically, I didn't trust the town to solve a logic puzzle. And I didn't trust the reasoning for it being pushed, which mostly consisted of locking scum into their roles - that's all well and good, but when roles are independent of alignment, then it doesn't get you very far.

The other major point seems to be me wanting the scum-vig to shoot into a barrel of likely townies, which I appologise for, because that was quite likely a very wrong read on all/most of them. I'm not sure how to defend myself against this piece of play other than it seemed like the likeliest place scum would be at that time. Other players were also open to this plan, but I'll take the heat for endorsing that play.

I also don't know how to defend myself against not being on the Sorasgoof wagon, other than quick wagons based on little reasoning make me quite skeptical. I hope some others can vouch for this, as the exact same thing happened to me in Mafia 109, where I defended a speeding wagon on scum there too. I genuinely didn't see Soras as scummy, really, and to be honest I still don't understand why she was lynched. But that's a bonus, I suppose.

I'm hoping I can make up for my subpar play with helping to craft a game-breaking strategy for us. I know I probably can't be trusted, and probably should be one of our lynches at some point, and I will accept that if we can find a strategy to give us a strong chance of winning.

What does everyone think of a massclaim of some description?

[Hoopla]

So, there has been talk about lynching down the list, because have 5 mislynches up our sleeve before we lose. There has also been talk that I should be the first one to go, or need to go at some stage. If that is the case, I'd rather go first and have a massclaim today to try and clear some more people. Here is what we have so far, I think;?

If we decide we're lynching you, it's not subject to negotiations.

So, you're opposed to massclaim now, DGB?

[Hoopla]

I've already claimed. I'm saying we're not "negotiating" anything with you. You're saying you'd "rather go first" as long as we mass claim.

You're not in the driver's seat.

Okie dokie. But, I'd like to do some negotiating from the grave, though - when I flip town, I put my vote down for massclaim and for DGB to be bumped up the lynching list just behind Keyblade. If I flip scum, feel free to ignore everything.

Also, the watcher is dead DGB. Don't play dumb.

[Hoopla]

I'm sorry I don't play to your standards DGB.

[Hoopla]

I'm sorry I don't play to your standards DGB.

Consistently defending scumbags and rounding up the townies for executions... that's my standard of SCUM play.

It's also the standard of town having a poor game too - I'm sure you must have had one or two somewhere along the line. But I don't expect you to see purity in my motivations.

[Hoopla]

## vote: Zang

lol

[Hoopla]

I'd rather craft a plan, than act on irrational impulses. That's for Day 1.

[Hoopla]

Why don't we massclaim tomorrow then?

[Hoopla]

Well, now I think about it, massclaim tomorrow is probably a slightly better option than today. Scum's next two moves are basically chosen for them, so they won't deviate into the pool of unknown roles, which means we get more information for tomorrow. I'm looking at you gunsmith.

We should have enough innocents/prob-innocents to break the game tomorrow, I think. How about I be investigated by the gunsmith tonight?

[Hoopla]

I've never seen Hoopla wrong so much as town, or fail to gambit as town (aka sign up thread where she didn't change her numbers like I did post roll)

Yeah, that would have been a pro-town move!

[Hoopla]

Waste an investigation to buy your buddy more time? Hmmm. Here's literally no way town can lose with all our innocents and 6 lynches.

But I guess you have to play to your win con till the end, eh?

5 lynches?

[Hoopla]

Official Vote Count

Players needed to Lynch : 8

Zang

- 1 -

DrippingGoofball

- (L-7)

Hoopla

- 1 -

Socrates

- (L-7)

Players not voting - 12 - 12keyblade, CryMeARiver, Ellibereth, Faraday, Fate, Hoopla, mb53, Parama, Pomegranate, PranaDevil, Sando, Zang

teehee. because i have zero town credit to influence opinion.

[Hoopla]

What does it mean if I flip town?

[Hoopla]

You won't.

But we can't lose either way. Btw last time I saw you use town cred in a sentence it was in the pyp2 scum qt.

Give up and tell us why you had scum pick the roles they did. Did you not have enough scum cred to force your mastermind plan through?

I think it's lame you don't consider the very real possibility of me being town, and the consequences, because I know you're not stupid or egotistical enough to believe you're some mystical scumhunting genie computer hacker. No matter how sure you are, and especially without any hard evidence, there is a big chance you're wrong. I'm ambivalant about playing the sacrificial lamb today, but what makes me tick is dying for people like you who won't learn anything from it.

I wish I could answer the stupid role picks, but my best guess is an incompetant scumteam. Socrates wouldn't have picked that - he would never let his scumteam be in this position, and he would have never rallied so hard for massclaim for most of Day 1 with this set of roles. I'm hoping you know my character better than this, that you would rate my scumplay slightly higher than how it has unfolded for this incompetant team.

Keyblade is my pick for scum right now, so nya.

##Vote:Keyblade

[Hoopla]

Hey Hoopla thanks for the scumbuddy defense of Socrates. He was anti-mc all of day one btw.

Nice AtE, never thought you'd sink so low.

it might be ate, it might be wifom, but do you seriously expect me to operate this game as scum like i am now? do you seriously think i would waste picks 1, 4, 5 on two vigs and a back up?

[Hoopla]

Okie dokie. When I'm confirmed town, please massclaim tomorrow and please consider lynching DGB.

[Hoopla]

Keyblade is my pick for scum right now, so nya.

Why 12Keyblade?

I think he fits in with the sort of person who would pick such poor roles. It's why I eliminated Socrates. I eliminated Sando, because I don't think scum would pick 3 numbers in a row. I'm also eliminating Elli based on role info.

Fate is foolish, but probably town - it's a process of elimination, really.

[Hoopla]

that's all you have in your favor. And it can be explained by our buddies not cooperating.

Nothing explains your poor exuse for town play, your defending of soras, complete absense of scumhunting, etc. Cept you being scum of course.

Think they wouldn't cooperate with scum that comprehensively won the last game, and co-designed this one?

It's interesting your default this as my scum play, when you've seen my scum play though.

[Hoopla]

Official Vote Count

Players needed to Lynch : 8

12keyblade

- 1 -

Hoopla

- (L-7)

Hoopla

- 5 -

Socrates

,

DrippingGoofball

,

Parama

,

PranaDevil

,

Ellibereth

- (L-3)

Players not voting - 8 - 12keyblade, CryMeARiver, Faraday, Fate, mb53, Pomegranate, Sando, Zang

Hoopla, you keep saying that their picks were stupid, so I am curious. What

would

you have picked as scum with those spots?

Hard to know without the other two picks, because you would choose different roles based on the odds of picking up something with your lower picks. For the sake of this experiment, I'll assume myself an KB are scum, which gives my team 1, 4, 5, 18, 21.

Immediately going into this game as scum I would be petrified of potency of mason combinations; weak doctor and bomb are just way too strong to let them do their own thing. The masons played Weak Doctor the right way, use it as a cop to investigate people, then if he dies, you can still have the results out anyway confirming a couple of people. The bomb is obviously potent, because it means an unlynchable/unkillable innocent, so I'd definitely consider taking one or even both of these role to make the masons dispensable and not such a huge threat.

I would also be very wary of all the talk of massclaim pregame, so I'd factor that into my choices and skip the vigs, and pick unisex roles with functionability. Jailkeeper and gunsmith have great value if you ignore the vigs, plus makes you look protown for not taking scum roles. However, you'd need to try and save your first draft pick somehow from being lynched, so you need to pick a role that is conceivable for a townie, and I think cop/vig/gunsmith are the only real options. So, my picks;

1 - Gunsmith/Cop
4 - Weak Doctor
5 - Bomb
18 - Jailkeeper
21 - Role Cop/Redirector

This gives decent powerrole finding combinations and protection from vigs, and taking the Jailkeeper so low is a strategy based on roleblocker/jailkeeper not being taken in the previous two versions of the game. I think with the town loaded with more power than last game, scum needed to play more defensively rather than going for town-crushing combos because they really weren't there to be honest. Town-looking, believable claims are also important in a game like this, because you don't get to keep potent role combos if you keep getting lynched from scummy role choices.

[Hoopla]

You wouldve pickd redirector earlier and used the vigs like your bitch. Nice try with the "maaaybe I'd pick redirector with the last slot"

other than that yea, that's what I'd expect from scumHoopla. But I expect better from town hoopla. Accept your lynch for the greater good.

You haven't convinced me my lynch is for the greater good though, because you haven't told me what happens when I flip town.

[Hoopla]

Okie dokie. When I'm confirmed town, please massclaim tomorrow and please consider lynching DGB.

I don't think that is going to happen.

I think you'll find it will happen.

[Hoopla]

Man, this current incarnation of the game is heavily town leaning. :/

I don't agree with Hoopla's suggested loadout, BTW. But that's something for the postgame.

So, you're okay with accepting it's likely these choices were my scum picks?

[Hoopla]

I guess it really isn't something for post game. I'll keep it simple:

If the scum team doesn't take at least 1 killing role, it is almost impossible for them to win the game.

I think you would realize this.

no it isn't. if they have protown roles, vigs won't shoot there in a massclaim. or ever manipulation roles like jailkeeper, redirector and the protective roles can work too. the game doesn't revolve around the vigs for scum, especially if the vigs miss once or twice. they could become lynch targets.

[Hoopla]

Official Vote Count

Players needed to Lynch : 8

12keyblade

- 1 -

Hoopla

- (L-7)

Hoopla

- 6 -

Socrates

,

DrippingGoofball

,

Parama

,

PranaDevil

,

Ellibereth

,

Pomegranate

- (L-2)

Players not voting - 7 - 12keyblade, CryMeARiver, Faraday, Fate, mb53, Sando, Zang

remember keyblade!

[Hoopla]

I sure hope so DGB. I think scum must have picked a 3, 4 or a 5, because they wouldn't have just chose one low number going into the draft. What do you think?

Also, we have almost enough probable townies to win the game I think.

3.)Ellibereth 90%

5.)DrippingGoofball

6.)PranaDevil 100%
7.)Zang 80%

8.)mb53

9.)Parama 99%
13.)Pomegranate 99%
15.)Sando 80%

16.)Fate
17.)Faraday

19.)Socrates 80%
20.)CryMeARiver 85%

21.)12keyblade

[Hoopla]

Socrates 80% why

Because of role choice, and because I know he wouldn't let his scumteam operate in this manner if he was part of it. He's better than that. I think his attempts to create a game-breaking plan pregame were sincere and made sense from a town-Socrates point of view, even though I didn't share those views. At the end of the last PYP, he was talking quite openly about the game being susceptible to a Day 1 massclaim, which is something he tried to implement in the sign-up thread. There's an outside chance he's playing me, but it makes much more sense he is town and believes he is right.

Also, I'm not sure accurate those percentages are, given we each have a 14% of being town at the moment. They were more just to show the strength of my town reads.

[Hoopla]

Why are you opposed to massclaim tomorrow Fate?

[Hoopla]

Lol at Socrates being more town than me.

I thought I was foolish town Hoopla? Changing your reads when you look bad enough already? For shame

I thought you were more town when I thought you it was you fake-neighbouring with me. Now I don't know.

[Hoopla]

I'm not making a case against you. Relax.

I just haven't been paying attention to you...

[Hoopla]

Elli is the Neighborizer. NICE PLAY.

[Hoopla]

Good luck guys. Also, if/when Elli flips scum, ignore my screams for lynching DGB, because it probably makes her town, I would say.

[Hoopla]

Sando, I told you not to fucking claim until tomorrow. I had VERY good reasons.

Especially since Pom is dead tonight and not you.

On the other hand, Elli is scum and Hoopla is not.

WHAT THE FUCK

mindfuck!!! i cannot believe it.

[Hoopla]

Tsk tsk.

[Hoopla]

Why pick the failvig combination Elli? Was that your idea?

[Hoopla]

Haha. and Fate thinks the tracker was a fail? uh oh...

[Hoopla]

Scum should have realized how potent town getting lucky and picking almost all the investigation roles would be. It's made the game a bit one-sided...

[Hoopla]

I'm still retardedly confused by the D1 role-info.

This game seems to have set up a rival informed minority to the scum, and I'm not in it

it's because you make out with animals.

[Hoopla]

Scum should have realized how potent town getting lucky and picking almost all the investigation roles would be. It's made the game a bit one-sided...

If Spyrex had locked the thread one second after Fate's hammer this would be a different story right now.

Not really...

Because DGB and Fate know you're a neighborizer too, and you would be promptly lynched today. Unless Sando is your nightkill. Interesting.

[Hoopla]

Official Vote Count

Players needed to Lynch : 8

12keyblade

- 1 -

Hoopla

- (L-7)

Hoopla

- 8 -

Socrates

,

DrippingGoofball

,

Parama

,

PranaDevil

,

Ellibereth

,

Pomegranate

,

Sando

,

Fate

- (L-0)

Players not voting - 5 - 12keyblade, CryMeARiver, Faraday, mb53, Zang[/area]

I like how the Happy Neighbour Mason Good Times Fun Club was started by scum.

[Hoopla]

1.) Did you like the game?
2.) Did you let the setup?
3.) What would you keep?
4.) What would you change?

1.) Yes and no. There were times where I was very uninspired, and other times when it was great fun. There was a good crowd in this game - but it's a shame how one-sided it was (like every other PYP game).

2.) Yes, I think. The set-up was perhaps too rich with investigative roles, which was overcompensation for the last game, when scum destroyed the town quite easily. The masons were also very powerful, especially if they managed to get roles like Weak Doctor/Bomb. The scum did quite well in the draft, getting every role they wanted, but I think they played poorly and the town got lucky with results more than any good play from town.

It's hard to gauge what the right balance is, and it's easy to think it's overcompensation with all the additional investigative roles, but I think if the two scumteams from PYP 2 and 3 swapped, it would have produced two very even games. The fact that scum played well in PYP 2, and quite poorly (with the exception of Elli) this game clouds the true balance of the game, and creates a contrast between the two which seems exaggerated.

3.) The odd and even night vigs were great ways to water down it's potency, and even though scum got both, there was an increased chance of town finding them with inclusions of the gunsmith. It was still a risk going for those roles too. With town knowledge on how destructive they can be, there was always going to be a vig witch hunt if they misfired.

I'd keep the fruit vendor too, just for the sheer novelty of it. It's nice having a mostly useless role, because it gives people low in the draft a viable option if they want to hand out fruit to people.

The weak doctor is a more attractive role than a regular doctor, but it can't be couple with the masons, as they are too powerful together.

4.) I'd definitely drop the masons - it guarentees confirmed town at some point in the game, and the role combinations available were quite powerful, that it made things difficult for scum. With an influx of investigation roles (and a decrease of evil scum roles), I don't think the masons were needed, and probably swung things too much in the town's favour.

The pre-game also needs a bit of tweaking, and I agree with whoever said the draft needs better explanation, because again, there were several people who didn't get the draft and how it worked. Here is an idea;

Drop the masons. When sign-ups finish, lock the pre-game thread, so town can't talk/try and break the game. This prevents dice-rolling/number fixing/massclaim and smalltown attempts which keeps the integrity and appeal of the set-up alive. Then announce it is Night 0, and this is the time to send in your numbers. Scum can talk during this period. Then announce the draft order and get players to choose their roles. Once that is all sorted out, the game can begin.

This gives scum an advantage in their preparations, as town don't have any. It also means, players don't need to follow a 200 post pre-game thread with everyone planning and talking. I don't think that is needed at all, and you never see games where town talk before the game. This should be an exclusive scum-power.

I'd also drop one or two of the investigation roles and swap in something slightly less powerful. Losing the cop wouldn't be a bad idea (it wasn't even used this game), unless you bring in something like a Framer who can make someone guilty/plant guns on them. I think losing the masons/pre-game stuff is enough to balance out this set-up though. A competant scumteam that chose a better set of roles could certainly have done a lot better in this game - they were too focused on getting roles that would help them, rather than choosing roles that block the amount of power town has.

[Hoopla]

Hey Hoopla

That post of yours set my scumdar on fire again.

How can I fix myself to be town DGB?

[Hoopla]

Might be interesting to add an alignment converter role. It would make scum a GF and town a miller.

I actually kind of like this. In the last game and this one especially, town has been known to block scum roles by taking them, without any penalty. This is a different scenario, as becoming millerized is a definite risk to prevent scum having a GF.

[Hoopla]

Also, how would a converter work? (If a mafiate is converted, why would he not spill the scumteam? People would be suspicious at first, but once one person from his list was lynched, they would just follow it for the win.)

No Pom, an

inverter

. So, a townie choosing it becomes a miller (appears guilty to cop/gunsmith). A mafiate choosing it would then become a GF (appears innocent to cop/gunsmith).

[Hoopla]

Ahh, much clearer, thanks. Because shaft.ed used the word converter, and I got all confused.

Also Hoopla, why did you think I was scum? Was it simply because I didn't participate pregame in the dice-roll?

You reminded me of Pom scum in CB's mini normal - you seemed to be overjustifying your opinions, keeping your options open, and walking on eggshells - trying not to offend. Plus being high up on the draft, and me not thinking soras was scum helped.

[Hoopla]

I think a straight drop of the masons is for the best. Swap in an inverter for something else, and you're probably quite close to the sweet spot I think. I wouldn't mind switching up a pro-scum role or two, also. Vengeful might be worth reconsidering.

[Hoopla]

Along with a lock on the Queue thread during the draft system.