Go Play in Traffic! (Game over!)

[Toogeloo]

Not first!

Although I personally think that Mass claiming is stupid, I'm a miller. I am an Angry Truck driver.

Like I haven't seen this tactic before

Vote: Sensfan

I love wagons! =D
Also, my claim is total BS, and didn't expect anyone to follow suit, BS or not. Wow.

Good thing too... I hate pigeons and would have voted you out of spite... stupid rats with wings, pooping on everything.

Vote: Fate

How dare you dictate when a phase ends, I want my RVS back =(

[Toogeloo]

I like to think we are discussing...

...arguing is what my parents used to do on whether we got the Frilly Pink Curtains or the Denver Broncos Curtains for the living room window.

[Toogeloo]

Erm... far to much WIFOM in the miller claim for me to take a stance one way or the other...

...
<snip>
...

Huggle: Toogeloo

for the Mr. Saotome avi.

I just finished a game where Scum claimed Miller in his opening post as well. He was the last Scum alive, though eventually died as well to a town win. The game wasn't here on MS, but I can provide a link to the game since it's archived elsewhere.

That said, there

is

too much WIFOM in a Miller claim early on, though don't think I will simply dismiss it. I actually tend to be more suspicious of it than dismissing of it and just tuck it in the back of my mind for now.



Thanks for the huggles btw ... and yeah, I am a Ranma geek.

[Toogeloo]

I believe we can afford to wait on lynching him until we get more info

Exactly the reason I just tuck it in the back of my mind for now.

I was under the impression that miller's were supposed to claim straight away.

It comes down to specific strategy.

Scum can do it as a test the waters type of play too, though it's a dangerous gambit. For example, scum might claim Miller just to see if there is a counter claim to that effect. Then it can be argued that more than one miller exists, and in that possibility, there may be no godfather (when in fact there probably is). What also ends up happening is that they have role-fished a claim from another player, and made their targeting easier at night to find juicier roles like cop or doc.

On the flip side of the strategy, if no one counters it, then the Miller claim stays good for at least a couple days of general safety so long as the player looks pro-town too.

And then of course, there is just the possibility that he is Town Miller, and there is no scum strategy present, and it's just the Miller claiming ahead to a) attempt to prevent the scum team from claiming Miller, and b) tell the Cop not to waste a scan on the player since it will come back MAFIA/GUILTY regardless.


So as you can see, too much WIFOM to deal with it at the moment. Generally though, I have found that if someone claims Miller, and another player is also a Miller, it is best to get that information out, even if it may possibly reduce the targets that scum shoots at night. Understanding our setup helps tremendously, and those "painted neon signs" suddenly become much more interesting for discussion purposes.

[Toogeloo]

Starbuck: Please: a) Give me some basic respect and don't curse at me; and b) Don't discuss ongoing games. If either continue, I will replace out of this game.

Sensitive much? You seem to be twisting your responses to fit another player's comment, which looks to be a recurring theme for you based on how you are treating this Miller claim as well.

And actually, due to his constant absence as of late everywhere else and that I'm tired of him fucking over games that I look forward to...

Unvote
Vote: SensFan

a) he doesn't curse at you at all; he uses a curse as a representation of what happens to games you play.
b) he doesn't mention any ongoing games specifically or indirectly.

[Toogeloo]

@Toogeloo - I am a she, btw. =)

Noted. The only name I recognize on the player list is Pittbunny, so I am bound to make a few gender mistakes.

[Toogeloo]

EBWOP: I guess I could probably look at the profile info on the side lol... I generally don't even notice it when I am reading though >_<

[Toogeloo]

Keep your vote on Sens, Leafsnail. This Wagon better not die on me.

Is there any particular reason you want the wagon to "not die" now that SensFan is no longer a player?

I would have to agree with Seraphim on this. It's fairly obvious that Sens was just having a bit of an idiot moment. Whether by being overtly zealous in his attack of ani in an attempt to be pro-town, or by just trying to get a lynch on a claimed miller as a scum tactic all completely remains to be seen, but the fact is that Seraphim should be considered a whole new entity for the time being, especially since it seems we are still vaguely in the RVS (though I would hope we can move out it soon enough).

I was contemplating removing my vote off of Fate since the spirit of the RVS is waning, but this last post to demand attention stay on Seraphim because of his predecessor seems a bit unfair to me, especially since nothing can be drawn from the situation as of yet. So for now I will keep my vote on Fate simply since he seems to want to hammer Seraphim out of the game and I don't agree with it (yet).

[Toogeloo]

I guess the time for Huggles is over .


Interestingly enough it seems neither you nor I want to lynch Seraphim (ex-Sens), so we really aren't that different.

[Toogeloo]

For all intents and purposes Seraphim should be treated as if he was Sensfan, and held accountable for those actions.

Generally I agree with this, but in this particular case I cannot.

I had the same immediate reaction that Sens did since I have seen a Scum claim Miller in first post very recently, Sens just took it and ran with it overzealously instead of tucking it into the back of his mind like he should have. Shortly after that, he threw a temper tantrum, acted like a bit of a jerk, and then got replaced.

It is far too early into the game to assume that Sens was scum and that his replacement is therefore scum, when the more likely answer is that Sens was an idiot and his replacement is now being held accountable.

I also don't see the argument against Yabba. It just appears to me that he was attempting to use reasoning, and Fate is just looking for reasons to tie people to Sens.

For the record, Fate, the whole, "Burn it with Fire," slogan never really goes over well for me, and I hope others. Maybe you should come up with better reasoning mate instead of the, "Kill it now," philosophy. Being more convincing is better play than being more demanding in my opinion.


I would urge people to be more cautious of those who jumped on the Sens lynch very easily. I think he got up to -2 pretty fast, so I could almost guarantee that someone(s) on that vote train is scum, and that's where I am starting my search.

[Toogeloo]

Just a quick review over the Sens train, the following people came off somewhat scummy to me based solely on how they decided to place their votes:

Pittbunny
Chronopie
Lowell

All of them seemed to kind of just tack onto the train with almost little reasoning behind it.


I am still a relative newbie on the site, so I don't know anyone except Pittbunny, and I actually only played with him once for a short time since he replaced into a game in the middle of a day phase and was subsequentally night killed the following night.


Pittbunny has tried to cause chaos, and his votes and commentary seem tacked on to the crowd, and not more or less his own personal thoughts. At least they do to me.

Chronopie and Lowell are largely quiet. I don't think any real content has been posted from them at all, or at least nothing I can remember after 5 pages. Lowell is a bit more guilty of this than Chrono for sure, as I think he has only posted twice, and neither was really inspiring confidence in me towards his townhood.

[Toogeloo]

I also don't see the argument against Yabba. It just appears to me that he was attempting to use reasoning, and Fate is just looking for reasons to tie people to Sens.

Give me an example of Yabba being attacked for "attempting to use reasoning".

Yabba isn't being attacked for attempting to use reasoning, he is being attacked because Fate thinks he is attempting to derail the train on Seraphim(Sens).

First off, Yabba doesn't even mention people needing to get off the train, he questions Fate for why he is even on the train. Fate of course started the train, but I think that what Yabba was getting at is he wants to know why Fate is on the train. Fate only jumps on because he says Policy Lynching is anti-town. He never backs up his convictions in any other way, so it could be assumed that he is still interested in lynching Seraphim(Sens) for wanting to policy lynch a claimed Miller. Seraphim has backed off of animorph, stating that the Miller situation will resolve itself natuarally, but Fate continues to want to lynch him.

I believe Yabba wanted to know why this continues to be the case, at least that is how I interpreted Yabba's response. Fate is in tunnel mode, and that is anti-town as well, and truly hasn't presented an argument against Seraphim other than, "Sens was trying to Policy lynch a Miller, and you are Sens."

[Toogeloo]

Part of the problem with Sensfan was his calling the miller claim bullshit, and then proceeding to shamelessly push for ani's lynch w/o any further attempts to scumhunt. additionally 'snarky' behaviour, and an unprovoked insult.

Is this something you would expect scum or idiot town to do, more specifically, a player like Sens?

Let's also consider for a second that this happened within the first 5 posts of the game, and Seraph replaced in by page two because of Sens' tantrum. It just doesn't seem like a scum tactic to me.


However, let's also break it down this way. The argument on him is WIFOMable for sure, but the secondary benefits are particularly useful.

Based on the fact that Sens reached -2 on Day 1, if Sens was idiot town, then he is an easy target that surely a scum or two would have latched onto to get a free pass through Day 1. If Sens was scum, his play would obviously be considered an easy player to bus by his team to make them look better.

Either way, since his alignment can be WIFOMed, and Seraphim

should

be considered a separate entity, I think that there is just as good a probability of finding scum attached to the lynch train since those characteristics have not changed.


I think a change of direction is necessary at the moment, and I would like some insightful commentary from Lowell. He still has his vote on Seraph(Sens), and I want him to better explain in his own words why he thinks his vote should still be there. I also consider it practically hypocritical that Lowell would FoS shattered for trying to look active by having a quad-post when it was fairly evident that everyone was having problems,

and

Lowell himself hasn't been the embodiment of content himself either with what he has had being a stretch in reasoning at the absolute most.

Unvote
Vote: Lowell

[Toogeloo]

I play using Walls of Text Lowell, always have. I don't have the ability to post one line and walk away unless that one line is all I really have to say. When I post, I put everything on my mind into the post.


So congrats, you made one content filled post. Didn't know you had it in you. Then you slip back into the little one liners again...


I am more curious however that you called out Pitt for scummy behavior but then wrote it off that he is town because of it. This is mostly in part to Pitt being one of my suspects originally too, so now I am thinking it's probably that you two are scum buddies and you just openly defended him.

On the subject of Pitt, he reminds me of a little chihuahua jumping up and down around the big dogs running the game. He has admitted to liking chaotic play, and he has followed on every bandwagon.


I'm feeling a bit better about Fate. I would put him more neutral now than previously thought to be slightly scummy.


I'm still on the fence about Chronopie being probably scum. He is more about gut though.


In regards to the game in general, I wouldn't even think it was a 16 player game because I keep seeing the same people's names and then other names just disappear into the crowd.

FakeGod
JacobSavage (who has at least picked it up on this page)
kunkstar
Shattered Viewpoint
Starbuck

These people just don't seem to post enough in my opinion. I'm betting a good lot of them are townies, just easily bored due to their role, too busy in real life, or bored of the game. But I am thinking at least one could likely be a lurkish scum.


So all in all, I think I can afford to give Lowell a little rope, and it's off to my next suspect.

Unvote
Vote: Pittbunny

[Toogeloo]

Pitt likes chaotic play
Pitt likes chaotic play
Pitt likes chaotic play

.... There, think I might have gotten it out of my system.


So, Pitt, why is your vote on Shattered, in your own opinion if you please. Also, what are your opinions of Chronopie, and the 5 people I listed as being a little too inactive?


I just want to see if you plan on playing follow the leader all game, or if you actually do have some opinions of your own.

[Toogeloo]

Obvious sarcasm is obvious since he was retorting SVs opinion on all the votes on him. (/)_-)

mod: what is the status of FakeGod? Is he being replaced/prodded? Or did I miss somewhere that he was on V/LA?
Also requesting a prod on Starbuck, unless I missed a post from her recently.

I still don't like Pitt, mostly because of this:

To be honest, though, I don't like how you handled your response post. Supposedly losing your cool due to a tactic that was shown done on someone else with no aggression towards actual lynching? Either you haven't read enough, or you're planting emotion in to your posts to hide something. My vote's gonna stay.

To this point he has been leisurely moving from one bandwagon to another, up until I call him out on it and ask him to engage in some conversation. He declares that he only wants SV to actually post some content, hence the bandwagoning vote, and yet, despite SVs post, he decides to keep his vote there.

I don't feel as if Pitt is keeping it there truly because he didn't like SV's response, I think he did so in order to appear he had some conviction after me just calling him out on it. SV is a very easy target, not one I would call town or scum just yet, but one that could easily be bussed or mislynched since he seems to easily crumble to pressure, or can be made to look like he easily crumbles because his posts are kind of bad.


Something that bugs me about these bandwagons is the amount of same people moving from one to the next, many of which don't have their own opinions on said wagons, and are along simply for the ride. It makes the possible lynch look too easy in my mind, and if all these people moving from one wagon to the next could stop looking like sheep, I may actually feel good about each possible lynchee.


I am still leaning scum buddies on Lowell and Pitt, and would be fine with lynching either at this point.

[Toogeloo]

@Fate
I personally have a neutral read on SV at the moment. Most of his mistakes haven't screamed at me as scummy behavior to be honest. I am more comfortable with a Pitt or Lowell lynch today to be honest. At the moment, it seems there is plenty of pressure on SV anyways. You don't my vote to help you end Day 1 too early.


SV is not the first person to get close to lynching this game. Out of curiousity, why should he be the first to claim after reaching that benchmark (L-2)? Why did we not ask Seraphim(Sens) or Lowell to claim when they neared a possible lynch themselves? I would agree that at L-1, a player should claim if they haven't yet though.


Personally, I find SVs potential lynch just a little too easy. Granted he didn't look the best on his defense, and he may be getting bussed by his mates, but still, this lynch appears to be happening with little resistance. Still, this is one of the main problems I have with bandwagons. They make lynches look too easy, and upon analysis make it difficult to tell if the person is scum or just an easy mislynch. I like conversation that is more divided because it shows people's convictions one way or another.

I could be wrong and stuck on my opinion of Pitt and Lowell though, but lynching a bad town player on Day 1 wouldn't be some historical new happening either. Granted, I would take bad town over obvtown lynch any day (except LyLo), but I would prefer it not be so in the dark, especially since we still have plenty of discussion time remaining.


Day 1 is the only time of the game we will get the opportunity for complete interactions from all players in the game. I'd rather not rush it just yet.

[Toogeloo]

You were surprised to get one of the most common roles in the game?

Why do you need the mod to reply to your paraphase inquiry? Surely you can tell us at least your role name, and tidbits of flavor in your own words without consulting the mod.

[Toogeloo]

So, SV, mind if I ask you a few things about your Mafia history?

How many games have you completed prior to this one? I mean in general, not just Mafia Scum games, but other sites, real life games, AIM games, what have you... You know, how much experience do you have?

Out of those games, how many of them have been themed based? Also, out of all the games you have played, how many times have you been town and scum do you think?


Besides the obvious, "watch out for those on my lynch," comment you made, do you have any impressions of players in particular that you feel may be scum?

And finally, do you think you have any town guesses at this point?

Bear in mind, you are at L-1 and can be hammered at any moment... you may want to consider what your final words should be, just in case. Regardless of your alignment, you should still play to win, so make sure you don't take any thoughts to the grave with you.


Since I've never played with you before, and I am in no hurry to end the day myself, I figure I may as well get to know you now, just in case someone decides that you should be lynched sometime soon. I'm still somewhat on the fence about you persoanlly, but if you do die today, it would be nice to know this information for my own personal notes, and I would imagine many people may find it useful.

[Toogeloo]

WE GET IT TOOGE, YOU'RE PRO-TOWN. NOW PUT HIM AT L-1 ALREADY

We get it Fate, you like to yell and demand alot. I like to have conversations with people, use our time to talk and get reads. I don't know anyone very well on the player list, think of this as a way for me to build my meta knowledge about you guys while also getting information to base my votes on. We may not agree on each other's play style, but to each their own.


I think that SV has taken his time, but he has finally come out of his shell in this game. He is looking town enough for me that I don't think he should be the lynch choice right now. I think it's time people move off him and expand our search to a new suspect.

pitt

is

town

. I feel strongly about this. His attempts to stir up trouble don't bother me, and his reckless abandon is a point in his favor.

This sentence has bugged me, so would someone explain to me why this doesn't look like Lowell and Pitt are scum buddies? To me, Lowell confirms that though Pitt isn't exactly pro-town in his behavior, he approves of the behavior and calls Pitt town because of it.

I also disapprove of this comment:

We're getting nothing useful out of SV. String him up, someone, and we'll deal with whatever happens tomorrow. We could do worse than killing a VT, even if that ends up being the case.

We still have more than enough time to find a better target for today, and I don't like Lowell's attempt to just lynch a VT and call it good.

Unvote
Vote: Lowell

I too want to hear more from the quieter members of town still. Seraphim, Starbuck, FakeGod, Twomz, and kunkstar could all use a little more post history.

[Toogeloo]

I hardly declared it closed. I said we should move on, as in, let's start digging on other people.

It's better than the, "let's just lynch SV, at worst we lose a VT," argument you have.

I prefer not to waste the best day of the game with so little exploration.

[Toogeloo]

BTW... why would you go from...

unvote, vote toogo

. Flat-out OMGUS.

toog

is ridiculous and

scummy

. I've never seen anyone more concerned with his image. He's like the anti-Lowell, and thus I hate him. 14 is needlessly cutesy, 105 and 114 are waaaay more explanation than is needed to vote someone who had only made two posts.

...to just a simple...

I don't like toog's eagerness to delcare the SV issue closed and move on.

fos toog

[Toogeloo]

The main reason I buy the Vanilla claim is because of the item in question vs. the Miller claim from earlier.

It seems to me that street objects will likely be vanillas (on ramp, street light) where as power will probably be vehicles/people in vehicles.

Take a look at the Miller claim, an Angry Truck Driver. This means that he is town, but would appear scum. I would assume the "Angry" is why he appears as scum, but the fact that he is a vehicle and town shows that it is obvious town has vehicles, which would elude me to believe that vehicles are power (Police Cars, Ambulances, etc...) and objects which kind of just sit there would be vanillas.

Lynching a VT is not the best route if people do believe him to be a VT, claims are only one way of determining scummy behavior, and lynching solely on the claim is not cool. You have to evaluate the claim and determine how much you believe it. In the case of SV, I am leaning to more likely to believe than disbelieve based not just on the claim, but his attitude in general.

I would rather lynch a claim that stinks from an attitude that is anti-town.


I would agree with Pitt to a certain extent that Fate could probably stand to curb some enthusiasm, but I wouldn't demand him change his play style to suit us, jsut as I wouldn't expect anyone to demand me change my play style to suit them. I would say however that Fate is not doing anything to make me lean town on him what-so-ever.


SV has vastly improved in my opinion, and I don't think he should be considered for lynch today. He is far more active than a lot of posters I can think of.


I would definitely prefer a Lowell lynch at this point. He isn't being useful, and he is very anti-town with most of his posts. He's easily one of the scummier players in my eyes, and if he is town, I cannot fathom why people believe being as anti-town as he has been is in the best interests of town. I don't have problems with anti-town from time to time, but he seems fully anti-town in all of his posts.

[Toogeloo]

yabba may be right, but I highly doubt that even if street lamp is a fake claim, he couldn't have just posted his paraphrase at the time requested using the page 1 template since it too is vanilla.

I think any scum using a safe claim as a nilla would have just paraphrased page 1 with some random object in the streets instead of stating they were waiting for mod to affirm a proper paraphrase.



On a different topic, out of curiousity, how many people in this game are taking finals right now, because activity in general is rather lackluster.

I am semi-tempted to return this whole town to the initial suspect, Seraphim(Sens) because as much of a break as I tried to offer him and get town off him, he has rather let me down in terms of actual scum hunting and content.

Let's be clear, I still don't trust Lowell at all (nor a few people for that matter), but some people in this game are just being given too many passes at this point. What is now troubling me is that Seraphim has voted Lowell the moment he got here and hasn't moved from the vote, nor has he really commented on anything in regards to the game, though he continues to post that he will catch up later.

His last two posts in the last 6 days of this phase:

Bleah, I need to reread the game, losing track of this thing fast...

Prodded, no time to read this game right now, will read and update later.

And he really isn't the only player I am dissatisfied with content wise, but I am curious if the fact that this is finals week for college students might be a factor in the overall lack of participation by a good quarter or so of the player base.

[Toogeloo]

@Toog: You realize he claimed stoplight, not street lamp, right? I don't see where you got that latter name from.

I wasn't bothered to go back and look up the exact name, I just remember it was a S.L. name and that was the first thing that came to my mind lol.

I think Fate deliberately manipulates his meta. I played with Fate in Mafia in Mini 905 and he was ABSOLUTELY NOTHING like this. He was town. I don't see this as a good reason to follow someone, especially since his scumhunting wasn't brilliant in the game you cite (he got you and Parama, sure, but missed me, Zito and DTM).

And let's be fair, Fate hasn't really been the epitome of town play here either. One of the reasons I had my vote on Fate so long in the beginning of the game was because of this CAPS and tunnel charged hunt of his. I think he finds that it's very easy to point out a single scummy looking act, tunnel on a player for it, and convince the rest of a town who loves to bandwagon that the person is scum, so that has been the staple of his play all game. I wouldn't say he has been scum hunting so much as he has been starting wagons just to see how they roll.

In many cases, this strategy is a good town ploy to see possible scum crack under pressure, but let's not confuse ourselves that this tactic is also a good scum move to get nervous town to crack under pressure as well. Newer players, sometimes even older players, can still crack under pressure if the screws are tightened enough. Scum aren't the only players who back pedal under pressure or lose their composure, this is a psychological game, everyone gets defensive at some point playing it, regardless of alignment.

So for Fate to have this play style shows no indication of his alignment to me at all to me. I have been around the block seeing similar play styles and they have come from both town and scum alike. And some of the best scum can make their scum play near identical to their town play, so the whole town meta from past games never really flies with me either.

[Toogeloo]

I will be on V/LA until Sunday morning more than likely.

I am posting this list of my current scumspects simply for if we hit night before I come back.


The following people are closer to scum than town in my own opinion:

Lowell (all reasons I have stated)
Chrono (another player flying under the radar with less than stellar pro-town activity)
Twomz (seems to be buddying and wagoning like crazy, haven't seen real content out of him)
Starbuck (lurkish)
JacobSavage (lurkish)

I was going to add Seraphim, but with two prods now, I am leaning that he may be disinterested town.

I would add animorph to the list if he hadn't already claimed Miller. Just because he is Miller claimed, that shouldn't give him a reason to just list lazily through the day phase though.

Every one else is generally neutral to me at this point, with a few that I am leaning townish on, but not ready to fully commit to naming them. I am not one to dismiss someone as town on Day 1 usually as it takes at least a few deaths and player correlations to make me start believing in the towniness of a player.


Anyways, these are my semi-final thoughts in the event you guys hammer before I get back. If the day is still going, I will post some catch up thoughts on my return.

[Toogeloo]

My flight was delayed today and I ended up waiting about 10 hours to get home. I am a bit lagged so I apologize if I don't wall this time... aw, darn, I know. Suffice to say, I think this day has gone a decent length at this point, and enough tells are abound to determine a deadly day 2.

I am fine with a Starbuck lynch. Unless she is a Stop Sign Investigator, I think we may have paved the road to an easy fake claim for scum with some vanilla claims. She should have been more proactive in my opinion, and all of her defenses aren't that strong. Even under L-1 she isn't putting much effort into her defense either.

I'm gonna sleep on it. If someone else wants to hammer, that's fine. While I do think this wagon happened ENTIRELY too easily, my suspects list isn't altered much from my last post. I want to hear more from SB when she gets back from work. If I don't see anything from her when I get up in the morning, or if her content sucks, I will happily end this day.

Oh look at that... I didn't want to wall, and I did anyways >_<...

[Toogeloo]

"She" claimed Stop Sign, not Vanilla, though the guess would be a Stop Sign is a Vanilla.

As far as telling Sheep from Scum, we have a ton of wagons to analyze from today, and the best way to start some pressure for Day 2 (in the event of SB flipping town), is to look at all the people who casted votes with no content on every wagon. Just my opinion. We have 21 pages for Day 1. That is a good chunk of content to analyze, so don't think we haven't gained anything here.

Lurkers should also no longer be tolerated going past Day 1, and I would firmly support policy lynches while we still have the time to do so on anyone who is not going to even attempt to be pro-town.

[Toogeloo]

Unless Fate blatantly bussed his Roleblocker Day 1, I am going to have to lean town on him. Interestingly, scum didn't shoot him last night considering he was the driving force on Starbuck. He would probably be considered the most town person alive today I would have thought.

My suspicions alter a bit going into Day 2 given the flips from the last two phases. I would really like JacobSavage to post more, given we are out of day 1 and have plenty of things to talk about, but I am going to believe him to be town for the time being. Starbuck was scrambling to get him lynched several times yesterday, especially around her lynch, and I am playing the odds that he is town and not scum because of it.

I am not thoroughly convinced of Andrius yet, and I want to lean scumish on the trio of players, but for the moment I can't. The reservation I have is that dispute that Sens and Starbuck had on page 2. I am not sure if two scum would have bantered in that way to the point of rules violations.


As for who I want to pursue today, my list altered as such:

Lowell is still very useless, being day 2, and having not done anything himself yesterday, I hate the idea that he is just going to do whatever another player says to do today. So yes, I find that scummy. His interactions from yesterday are also scummy.

One of either Riceballtail or Chronopie is likely scum, though I am doubting both being scum for the moment. After losing a Mafia member on Day 1, I don't think they would attempt to bus each other on Day 2. But as far as activity and play in general, I haven't like either. So my assumption is that one is scum and the other is just bad town and the scum member is trying to get them mislynched (through vote or FoS).

I keep flipping back and forth on Pittbunny. He just comes off scummy to me most of his posts, and he did to yabba as well at the end of Day 1. But every once in a while I glean something townie off him... it's just rare. I think if he is scum, he is using his chaotic pro-town play to keep people off the scent.

I would like much more pro-town commentary out of animorph as well. He claimed Miller, and I think that should only encourage him to hunt scum harder so we are more inclined to believe the claim. He has been very quiet all game, and so I become more distrusting of him in general.

As far as the rest of town, I lean neutral on most other players for now. So to sum up:

Townish

Fate
JacobSavage

Neutral

FakeGod
kunkstar
Leafsnail
Twomz

Scummish

animorph
Chronopie [-or-] Riceballtail (maybe, but doubt, both)
Lowell
Pittbunny



As far as the night kills in general go, I would agree that Yabba was likely the mafia kill. A punctured kill makes me lean Vigilante because the first thing I thought of was Road Spikes. If Vig did kill SV, I just want to smack them. SV was doing very well after his claim and Vigs should rarely shoot night 1, so double bad whammy on you.

For the moment, I do not believe we have a Serial Killer. The game seems too small for one in my opinion. So I am thinking we have an initial 4 scum, but possibly 5 scum game. If it is 5, I want to smack the Vig even more due to wasting a very precious shot.


That's about it for now.

[Toogeloo]

Fate is awesome and town.

Chronopie needs death now. I can post other reads after he's hanging from the end of a rope.

If anyone is doubtful, check his ISO 14. Then look at how reluctant he was to follow Fate onto Starbuck (even accusing Fate of bussing...). Read ISO 31 if you feel like a laugh, but it shouldn't be necessary to determine his alignment.

Fate: As soon as you're back, you better help get chrono lynched.

You know, I can definitely see this argument and have looked at those ISOs as well. I agree and will support it and it will help RBTs case if Chrono flips scum giving us more probable townies overall.

Vote: Chronopie

[Toogeloo]

Well, I am a little disappointed that the day is now over. Seem to be getting a lot of vanilla claims, but that would be too much meta. for the record, I would believe a stop sign over a gas pump, but I would have voted Pitt or Chrono for the lynch regardless I think, not just for the anti-town play, but the policy that they have been bad all game.

I would trust that if Fate says that Pitt is scum with almost 100% certainty (the way the post was played out came off with a certain degree of certainty to me at least), I would follow it.


Regardless of how this goes, I agree with Fate's list of names of people who must go, but I would narrow it specifically to animorph. His hammer was god awful, and his play is terrible. Vigging him would get rid of the WIFOM over his claim as well.


Tomorrow we really need to deal with Lowell too. There is no way this guy is being town enough to warrant keeping around. So unless he wows me tomorrow, I would like to focus on him.


I am very disappointed in this short day, even if we nailed scum. There is so much more I wanted from certain players, especially Andrius, so I could get more solid reads.

Nothing to do but wait now.

[Toogeloo]

If CMaR has anything to say in regards to Fate's behavior for the Pittbunny sway, I would love to hear it, but for now he isn't the target.

Vote: Chronopie

He needs to die today.

[Toogeloo]

For the record, Andrius is 100% untouchable (but he should still get in here and talk with us). I am convinced that he is town.

Fate, I have lost a little faith in, so CMAR doesn't get to sit in as pretty a spot as I had put Fate in yesterday. I still am undecided if Fate would actually bus his Roleblocker on Day 1, but with the emphasis that he put on lynching Pitt and the massive sway away from Chrono, there is no reason to right Fate off as strictly town, and therefore CMAR has to actually prove why he shouldn't be on anyone's radars at this point.

I am fairly certain that RBT is town, and Twomz is getting there for sure.


Chrono needs to die, but everyone better chime in this time. Do we have a Vig, or do we have an SK? I still want to lean Vig, but Night 3 will probably be the most telling.

[Toogeloo]

EBWOP:

there is no reason to right Fate off as strictly town,

write, not right

[Toogeloo]

Wait, wasn't Ani claimed miller? This provides an excellent opportunity. Who believed Ani's claim/who didn't? It might be conditional but it's a great chance to review reactions to him.

From this alone I think Sensfan's spot is town. Starbuck didn't take a stance, which makes sense from scum perspective. Chrono is a good suspect, he believed the miller claim quite readily. Wow, how many people jumped on Sens for that débâcle. Lowell is good suspect, his original vote on sensfan is horrible. I would say this is an appropriate spot to invoke the "chainsaw defense." Don't have time to do a thorough read of these first pages to gauge everyone's reactions but these are some cursory thoughts till I get back later.

Exactly my reasoning that Andrius is 100% untouchable. 2 People on the wagon that were attempting to lynch him were scum, and the entire thing got far too personal to be an act.

The fact that Fate started the wagon on Sens (now Andrius) actually doesn't help CMAR in the slightest, and if Fate/CMAR is possibly Godfather (with the ejection worthy comment being there to cast doubt), I think he may have actually considered booting his Roleblocker since SB was playing poorly anyways. It would show him being town for getting rid of a high ranking scum, and in the event of scans he wouldn't need to worry. The fact that Fate wasn't killed Night 1 gives me major cause for pause on his alignment, and the fact that he shifted the votes from Chrono to Pitt in less than 24 hours makes him look even worse. Won't get into any further than that for today though.



If anyone needs confirmation that they are lynching Chrono for the right reason, take a look at his claim, and then look at all the VTs so far that have died. Objects on the sides of streets are Vanilla Townies. A Gas Pump has no relevance to any other side street object. That should make you feel a bit better, Chrono effed up, but suffice to say, I am EXTREMELY confident that Chrono is scum.

[Toogeloo]

I wouldn't fret too much CMAR, Day 4 will likely be all about you bud (or FakeGod or Lowell). My godfather theory thing is simply speculation like you say, but though it is ridiculous, it certainly isn't implausible at all. I have seem much, much loonier scum play (GF on a scum team bussed his Assassin Day 1 and Roleblocker Day 2 and went on to win the game with a Town Bulletproof claim).

[Toogeloo]

Objects on the sides of streets are Vanilla Townies.

Not exclusively. Look at the sample role PM Coug gave us.

You have to consider that the sample is just that... a sample. We have actual player flips for analysis now. The sample could have been anything since it's only there to serve as what our Role PMs look like. It should no longer be used for meta purposes.

[Toogeloo]

The fact that Chrono is essentially not doing anything to prevent his lynch doesn't really speak volumes for this character anyways. It's likely he isn't trying to incriminate his last one or two buddies.

Other than CMAR, topping my scumspects chart is kunkstar, Lowell, and FakeGod.

kunkstar looks bad for his attempts to tie in Pitt to SB and then stay tunneled on him through all of Day 2. kunk has also been somewhat shadowy through out the game.

Lowell has been extremely anti-town since the game began, and his wagon on Day 1 was diverted early.

FakeGod is only on the list as a neutral read and is the lowest priority for me. He has mostly been sheepish and has lacked any real brain of his own since the game began.


I'd like to know if I am reading some of these people wrong, or anyone has thoughts on other people I didn't list. Those people I did list should probably step it up some. We are at a point in the game where no one should be coasting anymore.

[Toogeloo]

Well, I painted a large target on my back today, so before dusk settles in, just remember my suspects.

I doubt we have more than a dual shot vig, though I am not too familiar with vigs on MS. If we get two kills again tonight, then there is a strong likelihood that we actually do have a SK. If the Vig is out of shots and only one kill goes over tonight, we may want to ask that Vig to step forward so we can clear some more townies.


Focus should be on CMAR and Lowell tomorrow. Don't wagon the day, get some discussion going. I think we got this as town as long as we don't fuck up in the home stretch.

[Toogeloo]

The fact that I planted a seed of Godfather should have been thrown out if people doubted he was the cop in the first place. Way too much WIFOM to hold water in that argument. Town had a great plan Day 4, and they screwed up the follow through and didn't work together. The dead scum even thought this game should have been over a couple days ago, but paranoia got the best of the two most vocal players remaining instead of thinking on Occam's Razor. Pretty much every argument made to defend these two as obvtown earlier in the game was thrown out the window.