Mini 963: Furry Mafia (Game over!)

[Zang]

/confirm

[Zang]

/confirm

oh that was embarresing


and

Vote: Espionage

because I was in a game with you that just finished.

[Zang]

Because I didn't know that I wasn't supposed to confirm in thread.

[Zang]

WOW

I just realized that YOU'RE parama.

*facepalm*

L2look next time Antiximo.

@Zang - So you didn't read your PM?

yes, I read it and I didn't see anything about confirming so I posted in here and when it was locked I looked back at my PM and it was right there. That's why I was embarrased.

[Zang]

Good bye random voting.

Unvote

Don't have much time now, will post later.

[Zang]

First of all, there is absolutely NO evidence you can gain from such a post to consider Espe to be town at that point. Even if you had played with him before, a random vote like that would not be sufficient.

But it is also scummy in GENERAL because scum KNOW who the town are and could call ANYONE TOWN for ANYTHING. The fact that he felt the need to label someone town this early makes me think he is potentially setting up for something to go back to later on.

I agree with this.
Parama, Why would esp be town for a RVS OMGUS vote on me?

[Zang]

@Zang | Brandi - That was a joke post from my POV

Why would it be a joke post? he continued to say

Brandi, I can assure you it wasn't serious. I do not approve of the buddying, either.

which got this whole debate started and doesn't look like a joke to me at all.

Zang - Is that really all you have to say so far? You don't look very town to me at all yet

well, I don't really see enough to call anyone scum yet. Day 1 just started yesterday and the last person to post just posted less than an hour ago.

[Zang]

Or I feel a need to call someone likely town due to their attitude and timing of their post. I get good vibes from Espeonage's post there and I get good logic from his following ones. Issues there? I'm just callin' 'em as I see 'em, and I see a townie.

So you got a town vibe from a random vote where the only thing he said was "OMGUS" and voted for me?

[Zang]

Yup.

ok, I just don't see how you can get a town vine from five letters.

[Zang]

Yup.

ok, I just don't see how you can get a town vine from five letters.

ANSWER MEEEEEEEEEE

I WILLLLL

I didn't see your post when I submited that one.

[Zang]

Ok, here's my thoughts about the players and the role they played in the game so far. 

Parama-why do you hate meta?


Brandi- In your first post you say how you think that antiximos posting useless questions is useless to the town. But it was RVS why should it matter?

Your voted for parama after saying that he was "buddying" with fate. How was this buddying? And when asked by Parama you say that

Ah, just as I expected you to respond. The fact that that flew right over your head is quite amusing.

and

Wow, you just keep making scummier and scummier posts. This is awesome. Don't worry, it's so obvious that by now I'm sure the rest of the town can easily pick up on it.

But you never did explain it.

Back to antiximos question

I never used the word dumb, that was you.

You never did but you did imply it.

You are basically saying "SHE IS SCUM HUNTING TOO MUCH- I DON'T LIKE THAT. YOU AREN'T SUPPOSED TO SCUM HUNT DAY 1!"

I never saw you scumhunting before this post

 Notice the smiley face, the exclamation marks, the aura of familiarity, the friendly talking. Before he was talking to me in a serious manner. To fate? Definitely not. There is no doubting that this is blatantly obvious buddying here.

This is where the lines between RVS and real discussion where blurred. I assume that because Fate voted for Parama as a random vote that Parama would respond to it as a random vote. 


Antiximo-I agree. I don't see how a question can be considered anti-town or even Pro-town. Questions are asked for answers. Thoose answers or what you do with them is what is Anti/Pro-town.


Which brings me back to my post. I guess this turned into a case against Brandi than my thoughts on the game, Oh well.

Vote: Brandi

 

[Zang]

Ok, here's my thoughts about the players and the role they played in the game so far.

Parama-why do you hate meta?

*headdesk*
Are you even reading the thread? It REALLY helps.

You're rather late for the party y'know.

Your voted for parama after saying that he was "buddying" with fate. How was this buddying? And when asked by Parama you say that

Ah, just as I expected you to respond. The fact that that flew right over your head is quite amusing.

and

Wow, you just keep making scummier and scummier posts. This is awesome. Don't worry, it's so obvious that by now I'm sure the rest of the town can easily pick up on it.

But you never did explain it.

Um, yes she did

Notice the smiley face, the exclamation marks, the aura of familiarity, the friendly talking. Before he was talking to me in a serious manner. To fate? Definitely not. There is no doubting that this is blatantly obvious buddying here.

This is where the lines between RVS and real discussion where blurred. I assume that because Fate voted for Parama as a random vote that Parama would respond to it as a random vote. 

If you were reading the thread you would realize that this argument has been worked out and it was because of different definitions of the same term.

Conclusions: READ THE THREAD DAMMIT.

FoS: Zang

- You haven't done much all game and what you

have

done is bring up out-of-date arguments just as an excuse to jump on the current largest wagon. If FakeGod wasn't such obvious scum I'd probably be voting you.[/quote]

I made it as I went along.

[Zang]

@Zang: Please read recent posts to finish your analysis. I'll give you the benefit of the doubt for now that you just weren't fully caught up. But everything you have stated has already been addressed.

ok, ill go do another analysis

[Zang]

@Zang: Please read recent posts to finish your analysis. I'll give you the benefit of the doubt for now that you just weren't fully caught up. But everything you have stated has already been addressed.

Fine, I'll continue my analisis. But I would like to say that just because it's already adressed doesn't mean it's not important. I will go throught the acummulated pages since then and post my thoughts so it is possible that I will post some of what has already been adressed.  I'll start at page 5.

Brandi-

Oh because using humor and sarcasm with other players isn't buddying them right? You don't make any sense. What makes you think only serious posts can be buddying is beyond me.

 
No, it's not. The point of buddying is that when somebody is lynched and flips scum, the town connects that person to somebody else that they helped a lot during the game. If that scumbag though, was just telling a few jokes to somebody else, why would he be scum?

Perhaps this definition is not the best because all I get from it is being "friendly" with others is buddying. But Parama's definition seems to extend further than that.

Ok, you admit that you messed up with the definition but why didn't you look it up before? Then this whole argument between you and Parama could have been diverted. 


NavyCherub-

...Fugi never made a post about loving me...

;_;

STOP BUDDYING ME DANG

How is this buddying?


Espionage-

Wall of words makes my eyes bleed. Then i couldn't read them due to having blood in my eyes.

They make my eyes bleed to. Which reminds me, why am I the one being criticized for not posting content when people like espionage and fate are posting just as little?


Parama-

Yep more appealing. He even asks for my reaction to an unvote. You really want to know? I think you're just trying to get others to like you so nobody will lynch you. As you can see, that's certainly backfired.

How does looking for a reaction to an unvote make it so that others won't lynch you? And just looking for a reaction I have seen be done by both scum and town.
Although I do agree with your other points in your FakeGod case.

FakeGod-

counter 1. wagon grows, wagon trips, wagon breaks down and comes back up all the time. I just happened to put my vote there and I was the 5th person to do so, and I see that you apparently have a problem with that for some reason.

Yes but being the fifth person to do so you put him two votes away from being lynched and it was an RVS vote.

counter 2.

Where is counter 2?

counter 3. Putting you at L-2 is "dangerous" how? what, scums would suddenly hammer you? Getting lynched by being flooded by RVSs is not going to happen and you know it. Before telling me it's dangerous, tell me what could happen.

Regardless of whether scum would hammer, you had no reason to put a random vote on him after discussion started.

@Navy: RV stage is up. It's time to get serious. For me, RVS ended when you posted, Mr. I-have-no-doubts-that-FG-is-scum-based-on-4-posts. And you think I'm the one with bad excuses? Look at yourself. You are using Real-Life-got-in-the-way excuse. Great excuse I must say, because there's absolutely no possible way for me to somehow confirm that.

Just because there is no way for you to confirm it doesn't mean it didn't happen because there is also no possible way for you to debunk it. In situations like this you should give him the benefit of the doubt.

I explained this like hundred times already. Haven't you seen my post above? I RVed on Para, and when he responded, I respond back with a ObviouS JokE. There were no reasons behind my RV!!!!!!!! I don't need a reason behind a RV in case you are wondering. Quit pretending to not understand. This isn't the first time I said my vote on Para was RV.

It was obvious that the "rethinking my life" part was a joke but not the "Sorry for jumping on your wagon".

Sorry for my naviete, but how does WIFOM work? I've seen it mentioned in many games in online mafia. I read the wiki, but it really didn't make sense to me. >.<

Actually the Cop/Robber example is accurate, basically scum give town a choice, one that's obviously correct and one that's obviously wrong. But the town think that he wants him to choose the right one but the correct one is wrong. But then the scum might think that he would think that so the correct one is correct. Thus making each choice equal.

Antiximo-

From Brandi's POV, she's hit the damn jackpot in scumhunting. I'm not going to lie, even in my eyes the post from Parama to Fate (along with Fate continuing on to vote Brandi) threw some red flags. It was a polar opposite to Parama's mood before.

 
Actually not really, look at paramas first few posts before his mention of meta. They are very joking just like his post toward Fate.

This is his first post that I can feel a serious manner coming in. He says he has an idea of who he will playing with, and that he won't post until everyone shows up, only one person is left if i remember correctly , and it's Broomhead, he shows up on page 4 on the dot (on default posts).

There were actually two people left to post, Broomhead and NavyCherub

He votes Brandi with no real reason being told. I'm assuming that he's using Parama's other games to see that he's town.  Or he is still joking with him. If it's a joke, I could see Parama/Fate as potential buddies.

Why would two scum buddy with eachother? It defeats the whole point of buddying.

This is... ...All he's posted. That's a total of three people who haven't posted more than three times in this thread, I feel this is pretty annoying.

Why are you suprised? Day 1 just started two or three days ago and everybody can't be as superactive as you, fakegod, Brandi and parama.

Woah, you were being serious about your town claim on Espe-? Scum alert. Espeonage said a total of FIVE LETTERS. (granted, it's an acronym)

I have confronted Parama about this before and he sais he got a town "vibe" from esp but that it doesn't have to do with his vote on me so it can't have anything to do with OMGUS so Parama, why did you get this vibe from espionage?

Zang, you're so lucky it's ridiculous, i'm so tired right now.. It's been four hours.. I just want to be done... Let's make this quick and painless...

You think you have it bad? I've been putting this together all day.

This is a simple read, you're a skimmer, this isn't entirely bad. However you'll be missing big details in posts. My first recommendation, read harder.

Ok, I will read harder.

interesting.. Why would you need to re-read your role entirely...

I don't see why this would matter.

I have a problem with this from a town perspective, you're not reading fully as you go along. Because of this, I would have a problem having you in the game end-game. From a scum perspective, you might not feel the information as important as town would, and that it's only important if it includes you and your scum buddies.

I don't really understand what you are saying here.

Whaddya know, this includes Zang. So he's curious about it. It seems like he's secretly pointing a finger to Espeonage to get lynched next, without actually saying it. He is parroting Brandi on another note. If we lynch zang and he flips scum, we should check out Brandi.

I wanted to know why parama thought esp was town for voting me, just as you wanted to know earlier in your post.


sorry for the wall of text.

[Zang]

NavyCherub-

...Fugi never made a post about loving me...

;_;

STOP BUDDYING ME DANG

How is this buddying?

Context, my friend, use it. This is a little something I like to call satire, or maybe sarcasm. I was showing Brandi how stupid it was that she was using pre-game connections and friendly interactions based on those pre-game connections to say someone was "buddying."

Ok, that makes a lot more sence

[Zang]

Parama-

Yep more appealing. He even asks for my reaction to an unvote. You really want to know? I think you're just trying to get others to like you so nobody will lynch you. As you can see, that's certainly backfired.

How does looking for a reaction to an unvote make it so that others won't lynch you? And just looking for a reaction I have seen be done by both scum and town.
Although I do agree with your other points in your FakeGod case.

Reword this question because I have no clue what you're asking.

Your quote was taking from your case on FakeGod where you were talking about when he Unvoted and said he was looking for your reaction. You said that

I think you're just trying to get others to like you so nobody will lynch you.

I'm wondering why looking for a reaction to an unvote makes it so others will like you.

Whaddya know, this includes Zang. So he's curious about it. It seems like he's secretly pointing a finger to Espeonage to get lynched next, without actually saying it. He is parroting Brandi on another note. If we lynch zang and he flips scum, we should check out Brandi.

I wanted to know why parama thought esp was town for voting me, just as you wanted to know earlier in your post.

It wasn't the target of his vote that made me get a town vibe, as I have already explained.

I know that but if it wasn't that what was it that gave you a town vibe.

@Zang: btw thanks for answering my question, but I guess I still don't understand. For all the robber knows, chances of cop picking the lit road and dark road is about equal. Therefore, robber should run down the dark road, right?

Well here's where the cop/robber example doesn't apply because what the robber wants to do is run away or hide from the cop but the point of WIFOM is to distract the town. Basically WIFOM is more about the cop/towns descision.

Zang - Don't know. Seems to be newbie, lurks a bit... I'll look in to him.

I'm not lurking, it may seem that way in relation to everybody elses activity but ive been commiting a lot of time towards this game.

[Zang]

Simpler put, you aren't reading thoroughly as town. Is that really smart from a town perspective? It makes me wonder if you're town or scum merely because of your ignorance to basic points that have been discussed.

Ok, this makes more sence. No, it isn't smart, I do try read thoroughly though, it's just not easy with all the wall posts in this game, but I do know the basic points that have been discussed, if not more.

Parama-Can you please answer my questions toward you in post 211

[Zang]

I'm wondering why looking for a reaction to an unvote makes it so others will like you.

Not sure if I'm answering what you're asking because the question is still the worst worded question in history, but:
He asked for my thoughts on the unvote - appealed to me and then waited for me to react to this appeal. It wouldn't be as bad if he hadn't asked for my thoughts, but when he added that short question it made it blatantly obvious that all he wanted to do was get on my good side.

Ok, this does answer my question

[Zang]

and zang, you do notice that two people are hinting at you being the lynch of the day right..?

Yes, I do. But nobody has really given a case on me. With the exception of you, and I responded to that as best I could.

Because Zang is a very good scum.

Well, it depends on what you mean by good.

I want him to talk. My reasoning for thinking he's town is that he's newbie. While he's either newbie or scum, would town want either of them late game?

He could be newbie scum.

[Zang]

and have you seen my vote and the reasoning behind it? And what do you mean you want me to talk? I've been very active in the game! and I'm parroting? I only asked what in the world you asked me in post 250, because it was worded poorly. And yes, I already admitted that this is my second game in the forums. I never asked you to consider me differently because of it. No need to put me on a pedestal, sheesh.

I agree, fakegod has been very active lately and I see no evidence of him parroting.

Also: P.S. Can we (specifically Zang) start using the author feature of quotes? you just toss a little equals sign and quotes around a name and it will say who said what in your quote. Makes reading a whole bunch more easy to follow instead of just guessing at who said what.

I do, look at my previous posts. I only didn't for my analysis' because I said the name befor the quote.

He hasn't responded to the case on him from Pie or myself at ALL.

Also how can this come from Town?:

Zang isn't a noob. I would probably policy lynch him on the fact that his only tell while scum that I saw was my gut feeling. 

I never said I was advocating a Zang lynch. I was merely giving an explaination to Anti. That is Fate's ideal. Not mine. 

More Espeon votes please. If Anti votes the "probtown newb" over Espeon still in his next post I'll lynch him after Espeon's scumflip.

I'm fine with voting for esp. But the quotes where in two different situations. 

[Zang]

Well, I don't really have much to say but

In context, this was actually the 5th vote on Parama. He switched his RVS and, if you believe him, specifically asked his 8-ball about Parama. Then, claimed it was just an RVS vote to hide the bandwagoning. This was the post that first made me vote for him.

I agree, but this has already been pointed out.

This is his very next post. After I'm the first to vote for him and bring up any case at all, he immediately claims that he's already FoS'd me and no one else. He's still talking nonsensically to other players, and even unvotes Parama when called on the massive bandwagon trying to shove it off as a reaction test. This post solidified my vote.

I don't think he was actually FOSing but explaining the mechanics of FOSing. And I don't really understand his explaination anyway. If you FOS everybody but fugitive, you think everybody is suspicous except for fugitive. Isn't that how FOS's work?

The rest of your case is pretty good though and I agree that we will learn a lot from his lynch.

Unvote, Vote Espeonage 

Mostly to correct the count. 

Though Fugi does present a compelling case.

Is this really all you have to say?


 

 

[Zang]

I leave for half a day and the thread grows five pages.

Zang are you going to ever do anything substantial? All you're doing is commenting on other people's posts without providing anything original and you're not really doing any scumhunting. At all. 
Why must there be so many scummy people in this game? My Espe vote isn't moving until he responds, maybe not even then if his responses suck. But srsly... FG, Espe, Zang, all need to die.

I believe that I am, I'm not just commenting, I'm responding to questions or accusations at me and I'm asking questions myself. I am scumhunting. And at least I'm contributing, people like docpotter or fate get away with posting little content and I'm the one being criticized for not scumhunting.

Fugitive please bus Espeon now.

Zang an espeon vote would go a long way with your content problem.

I don't know what "content problem" your talking about but I am thinking about voting esp.

Zang, yes I suppose it is. 

I learned recently that I don't make good arguements/cases, that my most effective way of playing is to wait for the scum to out one of their number and then track the others down that way. 

Which is what I plan to do.

I recently have also learned something like that but you should still try.

You say you don't want a Zang lynch and you tell us what Fate was thinking, rather than letting Fate answer the question. 

So you're hinting that you think Zang is scum, but at the same time saying you don't want him lynched. I don't like that. It looks like you're trying to be on both sides here, so you can back up either side later on. 

I don't mind your vote on DP, but it's not making you look better. ]

I think you overreacting. All esp was doing was explaining why he agreed with fate. I don't know how you can get that he thinks I'm scum from that.
Have you seen him say I was scum anywhere?

Off-Topic Question: is there a Arm of Suspicion? or maybe Half-My-Body of Suspicion?

No, I think the highest suspicoun is the hand but I have seen a KOS or knuckle of suspicoun which is slightly less than a FOS.

You HAVE voted for Zang. Your first post:

OMGUS

Vote: Zang

Other than the posts I brought up in my arguments against you (policy lynching, Zang being a good scum), I don't think you've mentioned Zang much.

Calm down, Esp. Maybe hum a little bit of "I Feel Pretty"?

That vote was in RVS, it shouldn't count toward if esp has voted for me.

Doc peeps.

I'm not really sure if i believe this yet.

I seriously doubt we have 2 docs in one game so there is no way to save him if he is doc.

Are you claiming doctor? as far as I know he is the only person who's claimed doctor unless I'm missing somebody. If your not claiming, how do you know we have two doctors?

Eh, because I'm dumb and just didn't think of it. Even still that definition alone would not have helped me much as Parama explained it better. 

Thank you for responding to my questions, and also

Unvote

I'm going to hold off on voting espionage for now because of his claim.

[Zang]

Bah!

Go scum!