Mini 948 - Victorian Vampire - Game Over

[CryMeARiver]

Vote: Merkabah

You think you're cool because your name is not bolded? Huh punk?

[CryMeARiver]

Vote: JoshTheStampede

He's doomed

[CryMeARiver]

Vote: JoshTheStampede

He's doomed

Or not. I swear his name was bolded two seconds ago on the first post and it said "Bold names are doomed souls"...

Unvote

[CryMeARiver]

Vote: JoshTheStampede

He's doomed

Or not. I swear his name was bolded two seconds ago on the first post and it said "Bold names are doomed souls"...

Unvote

We're all "doomed souls". Bolded ones were CONFIRMED doomed souls.

Yeah, but for a second, your name was the only bolded one

[CryMeARiver]

Vote: Yosarian2

for apparently having a Kingdom of Loathing forum account ...

And rather than just end with that fluff I'd like to ask a couple of questions ...

1. Anyone here have any long-standing grudges or odd personal history?
2. What's your favorite implement when cornering a vampire, werewolf or science abomination - pitchfork or flaming torch?

1. No grudges, but I've played with Yos once or twice I believe. He usually dies pretty quickly though
2. Pitchfork, because I like to be different than everyone else

[CryMeARiver]

What do the players think of the

Diary of the Damned

? I don't really understand what "Links to Lynches" could mean and am curious to find out what you think.

[CryMeARiver]

Links to lynches are probably were the mid will put links to lynch scenes so they are easily accessible from the first page.

Wow, I was thinking way too much into the flavor of the game. I was thinking like vampire links to the dead or something. Well, I guess the stuff on the front page is nothing special like I thought it was then, just flavor names for graveyard and links

[CryMeARiver]

Yea, I'm pretty sure the front is just flavored links to the game.

What could links to the dead mean though cry?

I have no idea. I thought possibly it meant like links as in hints or flavor items, not computer lingo. Something to do with garlic, crosses, mirrors, holy water, coffins, etc...

[CryMeARiver]

I'm not the firt one to pick torch, and what will a pitchfork do? poke a few holes in them. With fire you can insenerate them. Have you ever heard of undead ashes? I haven't.

I just like to be different

[CryMeARiver]

This game is taking to long to get going.

Let's wagon someone.

Vote:ooba

Then prepare to be wagoned yourself

Vote: Yosarian

[CryMeARiver]

This game is taking to long to get going.

Let's wagon someone.

Vote:ooba

Then prepare to be wagoned yourself

Vote: Yosarian

Hmm? Is trying to get the game moving forward scummy now?

I never called you scummy. But you said we should get the game going with bandwagoning, I am getting it going with competing bandwagons. We are both working towards the same goal, so don't fight it

[CryMeARiver]

Well, the actual idea is to get the game going with GOOD bandwagons. IE: bandwagons that aren't on me.

Haha, I have absolutely zero reads so far and I'm just trying to get some discussion going And sure, competing bandwagon on me works too. Bandwagons and disagreements get things moving.

[CryMeARiver]

That makes L-1.

In other words, "scumbuddies, hammer freely"

Unvote, Vote: Darox

[CryMeARiver]

That makes L-1.

In other words, "scumbuddies, hammer freely"

Unvote, Vote: Darox

Do you honestly believe that? If anything quicklynching this early into Day 1 is a recipie for Day 2 lynch for sure.

If anything Darox is trying to get town points for making sure no-one inadvertantly hammers. The warning assures if anyone does they have no excuse for their behavior.

This is quickly reminding me of a game where scum did what Darox did as a warning, presumably for town points, and noob town hammered.

[CryMeARiver]

Well at least this post proves I'm not a jester ...

How so?

[CryMeARiver]

That makes L-1.

In other words, "scumbuddies, hammer freely"

Unvote, Vote: Darox

Do you honestly believe that? If anything quicklynching this early into Day 1 is a recipie for Day 2 lynch for sure.

If anything Darox is trying to get town points for making sure no-one inadvertantly hammers. The warning assures if anyone does they have no excuse for their behavior.

This is quickly reminding me of a game where scum did what Darox did as a warning, presumably for town points, and noob town hammered.

In other words, "scumbuddies, hammer freely and we can still argue against auto Day 2 lynch".

What do the players think of the

Diary of the Damned

? I don't really understand what "Links to Lynches" could mean and am curious to find out what you think.

Yea, I'm pretty sure the front is just flavored links to the game.

What could links to the dead mean though cry?

I do not like both these posts .. Not sure how any setup discussion helps at this point - but the second post looks like an obvious fishing attempt to me..

Vote: SpyreX

Addn: "How so?" - I am at L-1, not voting myself - so I can vote myself and win if I am jester

Ahhh. I see. I still don't feel comfortable with you at L1 so early and I ask for someone to unvote him please.

[CryMeARiver]

As I'm sure you can see, there is quite a lot of pressure on you right now. Are you feeling pressured? How do you plan to convince the other players to move their votes off of you and onto someone else?

I think this pressure on me is due to
a) Bandwagoning to get some discussion started
b) And partly due to the fact that I had just made one post in the game and hadn't contributed

Now that I've responded - I think I've addressed part b ..

Not much pressure - I am wary of newb or supposedly "accident" hammering though ..

It is quite possible that the only way to answer for part A is to claim or to make a hell of a defense.

[CryMeARiver]

It is quite possible that the only way to answer for part A is to claim or to make a hell of a defense.

Again another post that makes no sense. What sort of defense can he mount other than 'I'm more active'? Because the wagon basically formed around his lack of activity.

Unvote, Vote: CryMeARiver

I didn't like how quickly you jumped on Yosarian for attempting to move out of the fluff stage and I'm not thrilled with what here reads like a soft role-fish attempt.

1. It does make sense. They formed the wagon for information, who they targeted with it does not matter. If the wagon breaks apart just because he posted, they are back in square one, therefore I do not think it will just disappear. I do not agree with a claim out of Ooba and I do think the wagon should just dissipate, but try convincing the wagon of that.
2. I did not jump on Yosarian. I completely agreed that we should get the game moving forward. I just chose a different target with my attempted wagon.
3. I am not rolefishing and I highly disagree with a claim, I was just stating that it might come down to one.

[CryMeARiver]

Just kinda? I didn't even realize it was THREE awesome votes.

Including one voting for me and FoS'ing Josh which is truly slam-dunk behavior.

Josh is tech is a statement of sarcasm with how quickly he pounced on something to divert attention.

Still would love to know how that was rolefishing, too.

Good point, don't see how I missed this:

Vote: Slaine Hayes

[CryMeARiver]

There are some unique roles and combinations, most used before on other sites. However, the game is not focused on power roles, but instead on creating levels of interaction and subtext: games within the game.

I'm an Innkeeper.

What does that tell you?

Is this some sort of role claim or is this your actual profession? I am now a little bit confused...

[CryMeARiver]

I'm guessing it's your role because there hasn't really been any occupation named innkeeper since the 1800's

Haha, I call outkeeper then! LOL

[CryMeARiver]

Yes, I think that everyone is picking at straws and completely misinterpreting with the Josh-Spyrex argument and the whole thing is rather ridiculous

[CryMeARiver]

Prodded. Very limited Internet access. Sorry, more to come Sunday.

[CryMeARiver]

Ok, I am now back from my V/LA and will have read through the thread soon enough. Sorry, I thought I'd have free Internet access at a Sheraton hotel, but apparently not.

[CryMeARiver]

Sorry guys, been working on an ISO of my suspect and have read through the thread quite a bit. Should be up tonight.

[CryMeARiver]

Unvote
Vote:SpyreX

Why were you fishing?

Ok, keep this in mind.

Upon further review, I see where you explained yourself. i apologize, I missed that before.

But I'll keep my FoS on, like you,

I don't really feel the need to move my votes or FoS's unless I have good reason to.

Josh is attacked for the same reason, at one point by Slaine. Hypocritical contradiction much? Also, he now does not believe Spyrex was rolefishing.

Ok, I will ATTEMPT to get some logical discussion going here.

@Josh: If it turns out SpyreX is scum, what would you think of his alleged rolefishing then?

Alleged rolefishing? I thought you just stated that you didn't think he was rolefishing? Now you are looking for someone else to supply reasons to wagon another person.

I'm still so confused over the whole SpyreX situation.

Unvote

In other words "Josh did not supply me with a reason to attack Spyrex for his rolefishing". Also, what happened to "I don't feel the need to move my votes without a reason to"?

MORE IS TO COME! I don't have time for the rest

[CryMeARiver]

Do you have any opinions on the wagon? Or are you just going to idly watch it roll by?

Actually, I didn't see anything particulary scummy about Josh. Sadly I was mistaken

Unvote
Vote: JoshTheStampede

If he wants to be lynched, let him be lynched. Hopefully hes scum.

Is this not a hammer? Mod?

[CryMeARiver]

Is this not a hammer? Mod?

Nice of you to pop back up just to notice this .... what happened to your reads you promised not so long ago?

My read is still on Slaine Hayes. I placed a small case forward on him, then he replaced out. I still think that spot is scummy.

[CryMeARiver]

I am going to man up and be the first one to post

RIP Yosarian

[CryMeARiver]

This post is a pretty good reason.

He was replaced. Providing more would be kind of ridiculous since it'd be hard for him to respond.

[CryMeARiver]

This post is a pretty good reason.

He was replaced. Providing more would be kind of ridiculous since it'd be hard for him to respond.

So, what you're

really

saying is that your target ceased to be a target and, for whatever reason, you declined to even look for another target.

Gotcha.

Nice misrep bro. No, you are still my number one scumspect. There is just no point in trying to get you to respond to a case on your replacee.

[CryMeARiver]

My read is still on Slaine Hayes. I placed a small case forward on him, then he replaced out. I still think that spot is scummy.

He was replaced. Providing more would be kind of ridiculous since it'd be hard for him to respond.

So you find the slot scummy but don’t have anything from NS’s play that supports this continued assertion? Are you just going to look at only that slot or do you think you might actually start scum-hunting today?

If people are serious about making some conclusions about the Josh wagon the fact that Josh was an “Isolated Traitor” instead of just “Traitor” might be a good place to start when deciding who might or might not have known indentities.

Actually, I didn't see anything particulary scummy about Josh. Sadly I was mistaken

I just want to be clear … the only reason you voted for Josh was his self-vote?

Given we have at least one Miller in the game it’s certain some sort of cop is involved.

Also given what I’ve seen regarding Vig variants in the past I suspect Yos wasn’t the only Miller / Weak Vig out there.

@easjo – Let’s hear something from you.

I’ll be V/LA starting at 4pm EDT today until Friday morning the 30th for a Cruise, so if there is anything you want to hear from me I have until 4pm to respond.

I have reason to believe the bolded is true.
Yes, I have not given this game as much respect as I should have. Case on my suspect coming up soon.

[CryMeARiver]

...
Given we have at least one Miller in the game it’s certain some sort of cop is involved.

Also given what I’ve seen regarding Vig variants in the past I suspect Yos wasn’t the only Miller / Weak Vig out there.

@easjo – Let’s hear something from you.

...

I have reason to believe the bolded is true.

Setting it up now so that you can claim miller later?

No, nothing to do with miller. Also, I'm pretty sure one doesn't know that they are a miller, only regular.

[CryMeARiver]

Why don't we all quit softclaiming? Fucking morons.

If you are referring to me, I'd like to clear up that what I said has absolutely nothing to do with my role. Explanation later.

[CryMeARiver]

Hahaha

Unvote, Vote: CMAR

Did a quick rundown on Josh's ISO.

Guess who is never mentioned?

Not once. Quoted once that I saw, but never talked about.

(That said if I'm right about this I'd put heavy money on Ooba and Darox both being town now).

Ok, so he doesn't mention me. That's because he was arguing with you for more than half the game and defending himself the other half. This is a weak point.

[CryMeARiver]

Voting CMAR so hard right now.

'No, nothing to do with miller. Also, I'm pretty sure one doesn't know that they are a miller, only regular.'

'I'd like to clear up that what I said has absolutely nothing to do with my role. Explanation later.'

If it's got nothing to do with your role, then it's speculation on the setup.

And if it's speculation on the setup, then why the hell did you imply you had such in depth knowledge.

No where have I ever seen a miller who knows he is a miller because then they would just claim miller and mafia would be able to claim miller. That's stupid.
Yes, I have been speculating about the setup. I've been thinking about "weak vig". Weak doc is if they protect mafia, then they die. This would not make sense for a vig though, since shooting mafia and then dying is stupid and defeats the purpose of a vig. So the only thing I could come up with is that they can't choose who they shoot at night. Thinking about the flavor of the game, I thought of a mob killing a monster. So there might be a group of weak vigs? This is all speculation of course and I can guarantee that my role PM does not tell me any of this

[CryMeARiver]

So basically you've got nothing and your whole "

I know something you don't know, I'll explain later"

was a waste of time.


Where's that case on your suspect you promised?

Pretty sure I never said that.
I have a lot on my plate. It'll come.

[CryMeARiver]

So basically you've got nothing and your whole "

I know something you don't know, I'll explain later"

was a waste of time.


Where's that case on your suspect you promised?

Pretty sure I never said that.
I have a lot on my plate. It'll come.

I have reason to believe the bolded is true.

I'm pretty sure you did.

I never said that I had info that you didn't have. I was referring to my speculation. Again, no where did I say "I know something you don't know".

[CryMeARiver]

Voting CMAR so hard right now.

'No, nothing to do with miller. Also, I'm pretty sure one doesn't know that they are a miller, only regular.'

'I'd like to clear up that what I said has absolutely nothing to do with my role. Explanation later.'

If it's got nothing to do with your role, then it's speculation on the setup.

And if it's speculation on the setup, then why the hell did you imply you had such in depth knowledge.

No where have I ever seen a miller who knows he is a miller because then they would just claim miller and mafia would be able to claim miller. That's stupid.
Yes, I have been speculating about the setup. I've been thinking about "weak vig". Weak doc is if they protect mafia, then they die. This would not make sense for a vig though, since shooting mafia and then dying is stupid and defeats the purpose of a vig. So the only thing I could come up with is that they can't choose who they shoot at night. Thinking about the flavor of the game, I thought of a mob killing a monster. So there might be a group of weak vigs? This is all speculation of course and I can guarantee that my role PM does not tell me any of this

I have been in a game where there was a miller and he knew. He wouldn't claim and when he was replaced it was the first thing he did since he was at L-1. The town was then faced with a desicion either to lynch him or accept his claim. We lynched him and he was the town miller.

I would think that based on what you say about a weak doc that a weak vig would be killed if he targeted town, killing both of them.

Hmmm, that goes against anything I've ever seen. Good to know though.
That would be quite drastic to town though. Two townies dead in a small game like this? Also, roles aren't usually told if they are weak or strong, so the vig would not know this likely and would go ahead and shoot.

[CryMeARiver]

sorry, thought i'd posted recently here.

ooba i aint gonna answer that right now.


not really feeling the darox/cmar battle, it seems like darox is being a little pedantic - i sort of understand what cmar was saying, although it was a dumb way to phrase it.

Sorry if you find that dumb.

Hahaha

Unvote, Vote: CMAR

Did a quick rundown on Josh's ISO.

Guess who is never mentioned?

Not once. Quoted once that I saw, but never talked about.

this also works in reverse, there's a couple of posts early on where he defends josh/attacks slaine hayes (specifically his iso 25). although, it is noted that CMAR did entirely avoid the whole josh rolefishing issue.

This is quite dumb. I don't defend Josh ever and yes I did attack Slaine Hayes because he was scummy. Two other people seemed to agree with me. Also, if we have agreed that Josh was a traitor, even if I was mafia, I wouldn't have known he has scum. Therefore all of the above means nothing.

also noted is this:

MORE IS TO COME! I don't have time for the rest

so obviously there was more you intended to say about slaine hayes. but;

Is this not a hammer? Mod?

then

He was replaced. Providing more would be kind of ridiculous since it'd be hard for him to respond.

this is untrue. if you've got a read that is so strong it persists onto his replacement, then it's absolutely worth mentioning. nobody special hasn't really done anything of note since replacing in, so slaine hayes's contribution is still fairly relevant.

i think i'll

unvote, vote CMAR

and see what falls out.

Yes, I originally intended to continue my ISO on Hayes.
Yes, I thought that was a hammer. I have no idea what that is meant to show.
Most of the time, it is difficult to respond to something a replacee did. I have replaced in many times, and I normally find it rather difficult to explain what they did.
My case is next.

oh yeah, ps:

Yes, I think that everyone is picking at straws and completely misinterpreting with the Josh-Spyrex argument and the whole thing is rather ridiculous

hmm??

This was early in the argument. This was when they were arguing over two things:
1) "Josh is tech" This argument was ABSOLUTELY RIDICULOUS and made no sense to me.
2) That Josh was rolefishing with his roleclaiming comment about Darox's Innkeeper. I thought it was obvious that Josh was not rolefishing, but saying for no one to roleclaim at all. Spyrex attacked him here for no reason.

[CryMeARiver]

This is quite dumb. I don't defend Josh ever and yes I did attack Slaine Hayes because he was scummy. Two other people seemed to agree with me. Also, if we have agreed that Josh was a traitor, even if I was mafia, I wouldn't have known he has scum. Therefore all of the above means nothing.

While this makes me a little it did give me a missing the trees for the forest moment: Josh was a Doctor.

No way in hell he didn't know who the scum were.

No where did I say Josh didn't know who the scum were. Read that again as I

1) "Josh is tech" This argument was ABSOLUTELY RIDICULOUS and made no sense to me.
2) That Josh was rolefishing with his roleclaiming comment about Darox's Innkeeper. I thought it was obvious that Josh was not rolefishing, but saying for no one to roleclaim at all. Spyrex attacked him here for no reason.

Yes, putting 1 (the garbage the scum was spewing) and 2 (the dissonance in his "this is good" "wait, this is bad") is a great idea.

Dingle dangle

Not exactly sure what any of that means. Both arguments were complete crap and on the second one, Josh never rolefished still in my opinion. If I was his mafia buddy, I'd be distancing like crazy right now, but I'm not because I still think you were wrong.

[CryMeARiver]

God I hate having to spell out every tiny bit of my thought processes.

Since Josh was a Mafia Doctor, your entire point is, well, Obvious. So, why'd you bother? Are you trying to point out things that are Obvious in order to increase your town cred? Seriously. What?

Considering the discussion earlier with Darox in regards to how the traitor operated, yea it was worth mentioning.

Specifically in this context: Josh was a Mafia Doctor. In order for that role to have ANY real use Josh would have, in fact, had to know who the scum were.

Now, when you take that in conjunction with the absolute absence of mentioning CMAR in a namedrop analysis that raises a flag.

Add to that CMAR's play and you've got a lynch.

Hence, dingle dangle.

BUT, since I know thats not going to be enough lets continue:

Not exactly sure what any of that means. Both arguments were complete crap and on the second one, Josh never rolefished still in my opinion. If I was his mafia buddy, I'd be distancing like crazy right now, but I'm not because I still think you were wrong.

1.) and 2.) have nothing to do with each other. Having them grouped is an absolute disservice and more than a little shady.

1.) was, like I called it at the time, part of the "ohh look, a distraction!" game he was playing. It was an argument about something that had nothing to do with anything but create white noise.

2.) was part of the scumdance he was doing yesterday all day (and you're focusing on the tiniest most arguable part but I'll digress). He instinctively asked for more information, saw that was a REAL bad idea and tried to distance himself from it. When called out on "is that a flavor claim" business and the quick turn around was that whole "I didn't want to open the floodgates to all the town PR's outing themselves seriously guys"

Which, then and now, is garbage. Scum garbage, exactly like I said.

That last sentence there is more of that classic doublespeak- how, HOW, considering your posted stances could you as scum distance yourself from it while under the knife?

You cant. So you have to support it but that looks bad with a scum flip so what does one do?

Ohh, just what you did.

I do think you are being stupid right now. I was responding to the reason that I said you guys were "picking straws". I said this due to the 2 arguments above. Argument 1 just created noise and Argument 2 no one was fishing. That is how the two are related. Because when I said:

Yes, I think that everyone is picking at straws and completely misinterpreting with the Josh-Spyrex argument and the whole thing is rather ridiculous

these were the arguments I was referring to. Also, you are right, I was pretty much gone for most of the second half of your guys argument because 1. I was V/LA for like a week and a half somewhere in the there and 2. A lot of them were crap arguments that were destroying the game. Now stop distracting me from my ISO with stupid posts like these.

[CryMeARiver]

This is quite dumb. I don't defend Josh ever and yes I did attack Slaine Hayes because he was scummy. Two other people seemed to agree with me. Also, if we have agreed that Josh was a traitor, even if I was mafia, I wouldn't have known he has scum. Therefore all of the above means nothing.

While this makes me a little it did give me a missing the trees for the forest moment: Josh was a Doctor.

No way in hell he didn't know who the scum were.

Why do I still feel you are completely missing my point?

1. Saying I am scum because I defended Josh is silly. The scum probably wouldn't have known who Josh was. Josh may have known who the scum were, but that's irrelevant.

2. You responded to this point by saying "Of course Josh knew who the scum was, he was a doctor." This may be true, but is irrelevant, because what I was saying is that the other scum probably didn't know who HE was. I don't know if you read my post backwards, SpyreX, or if you deliberately misunderstood me."

All of your arguments related to how I talked about Josh yesterday (and how I'm talking about him today) are completely irrelevant, because scum can't defend a buddy they don't know about.

[CryMeARiver]

Because I certainly wasn't going to win over enough votes for easjo. I'll work on that case much more tomorrow.

Why aren't you voting? Who's your top suspect?

Oh, and before I unleash my ISO, I'd like to know: Do you even suspect me? Or are you just blatant bandwagoning?

[CryMeARiver]

Yes, CMAR, I suspect you are total scum. Hence, my vote.

You haven't implied this anywhere. Can I see some case please?

[CryMeARiver]

Why do I still feel you are completely missing my point?

1. Saying I am scum because I defended Josh is silly. The scum probably wouldn't have known who Josh was. Josh may have known who the scum were, but that's irrelevant.

2. You responded to this point by saying "Of course Josh knew who the scum was, he was a doctor." This may be true, but is irrelevant, because what I was saying is that the other scum probably didn't know who HE was. I don't know if you read my post backwards, SpyreX, or if you deliberately misunderstood me."

All of your arguments related to how I talked about Josh yesterday (and how I'm talking about him today) are completely irrelevant, because scum can't defend a buddy they don't know about.

That wasn't a "response" as much as a realization confirming the real point:

1.) Josh was a traitor doctor.
--- For this role to be USEFUL that means Josh would know the mafia.
2.) Josh never, ever mentioned you and only you.
--- This is important because this one-way connection bespeaks his knowing your alignment.

Thus, the flipped scums absence of interaction is what makes me think you are scum.

FURTHER, I'm not saying

anything

about your interaction with Josh making you scum directly. It's a one way street on that. At that point *shock* you stayed away from it saying we were probably both town based on poor reasoning

because you thought we were both town

.

I said your statement "I'd distance from this if I was scum" is a load of garbage because a.) you didn't know he was scum WITH you at the time and b.) distancing yourself from it at this juncture would make absolutely no sense.

You are relentlessly stupid. So your whole case is that Josh HAD to have known who the scum were (Which I still don't believe since he was ISOLATED traitor) and since he must have known his scumbuddies, I must be scum because he never mentioned me and never wanted to attract attention to me?

[CryMeARiver]

Yes I'm the stupid one!

"THE DOCTOR TRAITOR SCUM HAD NO IDEA WHO THE SCUMS WERE ZOMG"

My question was, is that your entire case?

[CryMeARiver]

why is it unreasonable that josh as scum (and knowing who his partners were) wouldn't want to incriminate them?

it seems to me to be a perfectly valid point. logical and reasonable.

You responded to this point by saying "Of course Josh knew who the scum was, he was a doctor."

This may be true, but is irrelevant, because what I was saying is that the other scum probably didn't know who HE was

. I don't know if you read my post backwards, SpyreX, or if you deliberately misunderstood me."

this is what i was looking for - you can concede that yes, josh (probably, possibly) knew who the other scum was/is (a stance which you border on contradicting in post 435). if he never mentioned you, then it seems to me to be a reasonable conclusion that you're either so townie that he thought he had no chance of getting you lynched, or he didn't want you lynched.


oh and to clear this up:

Yes, I thought that was a hammer. I have no idea what that is meant to show.

the point wasn't that you thought it was a hammer, it's that you promised a case, disappeared for 5 days and then came back and didn't pick up where you left off. still haven't, to be fair.

i think a case against slaine is still valid, the playerslot still exists so even though he can't defend himself i'd still like to see what you've got, and how it has or hasn't been resolved by NS's play.

So once I finish posting my case, you have no reason to vote me? Sounds good. With this in mind, no one hammer please. Actually, I'd appreciate it if one person could unvote that way I can't be quick hammered, yet the pressure is still on me.

[CryMeARiver]

CMAR: I would like your final reads, please. Tell us who you think is town and who you think is scum. Reasoning is optional and appreciated.

nah, once you post your case nobody will have a reason -not- to vote you. your potential use will be exhausted.

I laugh at these many a time.

Unvote

Some things need to be addressed before anyone dies today.
Cry needs to stop stalling and post his touted ISO. He hasn't even said who it's on.

Cruelty needs to stop being scum.

Thank ya kindly. ISO is almost done, have had a few things back here in reality to deal with.

[CryMeARiver]

Slaine Hayes/Nobody Special

Unvote
Vote:SpyreX

Why were you fishing?

Ok, keep this in mind.

Upon further review, I see where you explained yourself. i apologize, I missed that before.

But I'll keep my FoS on, like you,

I don't really feel the need to move my votes or FoS's unless I have good reason to.

Josh is attacked for the same reason, at one point by Slaine. Hypocritical contradiction much? Also, he now does not believe Spyrex was rolefishing.

Ok, I will ATTEMPT to get some logical discussion going here.

@Josh: If it turns out SpyreX is scum, what would you think of his alleged rolefishing then?

Alleged rolefishing? I thought you just stated that you didn't think he was rolefishing? Now you are looking for someone else to supply reasons to wagon another person.

I'm still so confused over the whole SpyreX situation.

Unvote

In other words "Josh did not supply me with a reason to attack Spyrex for his rolefishing". Also, what happened to "I don't feel the need to move my votes without a reason to"?

MORE IS TO COME! I don't have time for the rest

I still find this all to be true. He contradicted himself twice and looked for someone else to do the scumhunting for him.

The rest of Slaine Hayes's posts are ridiculous:

I have to say, I am pretty neutral on the current situation. I will do a re-read tomorrow and see if anything sparks my interest.

Hey guys I'm here-had a family emergency to deal with, sorry.

@ ooba:So wait, you're not sold on Josh, but you want to go ahead and kill him? Explain that reasoning.

@Yosarian: If I thought someone was scummy, I'd be voting for them. If I think someone is town, you'll be the first to know.

I'm not really sure either way. I'm still getting a read.

Darox, what are your reasons for thinking SpyreX is scum and Ooba is town?

Yeh I've gotten behind in this game. Will post more substantial material ASAP

V/LA until Friday. Will try to post in the interim.

CMAR, could you please point out where I attack Josh for keeping an FoS on someone? I am fairly certain I did no such thing

And to answer his question, I was referring to this:

I'm seeing the inconsistencies in Josh's argument.

FoS: JoshTheStampede

I'd like to here more from him on the matter

To sum up the first part of this two team combo, Slaine did not scumhunt on his own and never gave an opinion. He was waiting for someone else to make a good case so he could bandwagon and follow it. He supported both sides of the Spyrex-Josh argument at different points and could never make up his mind. He also contradicted himself twice I believe.

Oh, hi.

It seems I have a few votes.

I shall be reading and RUTHLESSLY SCUMHUNTING starting..... Now.

Anything that anyone might want to mention to me, mention away. I'm all ears.

I would hope so. That'd be more than your replacee.

-- Very skeptical of Josh.
-- SpyreX is acting differently here. (I know, meta BAD blah blah)

Again, can't pick a side. Uses a meta argument on SpyreX for acting "jovial and outspoken" but is still skeptical about Josh, and goes on to vote him.

Actually, it is my opinion that YOU are the one purposefully misinsterpreting things -- you went on and on about "I don't want to hear 'slippery slope' and I won't entertain this argument any further" -- and now you're trying to say you know what a slippery slope argument is? Please, get lynched.

Vote: Josh

Still on page 7. Still reading. Still happy with a Josh lynch.

I have reread this many times, and I STILL don't understand his reasoning behind his vote. He hasn't even come close to finished reading the argument, but finds Josh misinterpreting things (doesn't point out where) and something about a slippery slope that doesn't make sense. BANDWAGON HARDER PLEASE BROSKY. K thx.

JoshTheStampede- I haven't really taken to like from the start
Zang- not much to say either way
Slaine Hayes- dodgy but don't think he's scummy
cruelty- not much to say either way
TheSkeward- not much to say either way
Yosarian2- seems to be chipping in on the scum hunt
SpyreX- dodgy
CryMeARiver- dont really have an opinion
MagnaofIllusion- is contributing to the hunt
Darox- think hes town
Ooba- dont know

Waffling. Major, huge, active-lurking, I'm-scum-please-don't look-at-me waffling.

I also have some suspicions about Darox (admitted active lurking, distancing from Josh), but for now

Vote: easjo

Not really sure where he is waffling, but I can understand the vote. But seriously, targeting the lurker is often a scum's way of looking like he's scumhunting without really scumhunting. It looks good on the outside, but his case is really only that easjo was active lurking.

Please translate "Dingle dangle" into something I can relate to, like English. I have a feeling I know what you meant, but please clarify.

Please scumhunt for me so I can do this:

unvote

Vote: CMAR

...without any reasoning. Oh wait, his reasoning:

Because I certainly wasn't going to win over enough votes for easjo. I'll work on that case much more tomorrow.

My "suspect" wasn't catching on, so I switched to you and bandwagoned. Ok brosky.

Yes, CMAR, I suspect you are total scum. Hence, my vote.

Really? You haven't posted suspicions of me anywhere. Again, what warrants this vote besides obvious bandwagoning?

The second of the duet isn't much better. He promises he'll scumhunt more, but he hasn't. He only targets the lurker without actually scumhunting and clearly bandwagons without reasoning twice.

Cruelty

Also Spyrex you seem different this game.

Hmmm, another one? Interesting.

The Skeward

Active lurker who tunneled Josh all day 1. That is literally all he did. I don't even know if he followed the Josh-SpyreX argument because he never mentions it. The only reason he votes Josh is based off the fact that he wanted to pressure Ooba by leaving him at L1 and that was antitown. And then today with the:

Unvote; Vote: CryMeARiver

I still think Nobody Special is scummier, but CMAR is a good lynch as well.

Another bandwagon vote with no reasoning. Most of the wagon on me is ridiculous bandwagoning because people want a quicklynch, as seen here:

CMAR: I would like your final reads, please. Tell us who you think is town and who you think is scum. Reasoning is optional and appreciated.

I'm already dead to him.

SpyreX

I could go on with the largest ISO ever on how he tunneled Josh all of D1 and me all of D2 and how he has been misrepresenting me and providing cases without validity on me and how he is still obsessed with Josh even on D2, but if you can't already see that and you need an ISO to establish that, you can do it yourself. All of this could easily be misguided townie though, so I'm still not sure on you.

Vote: Nobody Special
FoS: Skeward

[CryMeARiver]

Hey Darox. Could you be persuaded to switch to Nobody Special? I'm more sure he's scum.

Seriously? Your vote depends on Darox's vote? Why are you voting me when you think he's scummier?

Larger FoS on Skeward

[CryMeARiver]

NOT IMPRESSED.

Wasn't meant to impress anyone. It was meant to state who I think was scum and to convince people that I'm not scum and others are. Not to mention your only reasoning behind your vote for me was that I hadn't been posting a lot (which I've posted more than some people still, content wise and post wise).

[CryMeARiver]

Got any reasons/post #'s/vague gut feelings to back that up?

I'm kind of neutral to NS right now.

How about the case I just posted?

[CryMeARiver]

Your case is lackluster.

I am not impressed with it. It did not sway my opinions on NS or yourself.

Why? And the only thing you had on me was that I wasn't posting, and now I am, so...

[CryMeARiver]

Got any reasons/post #'s/vague gut feelings to back that up?

I'm kind of neutral to NS right now.

Nobody Special
Doesn't like Darox's nameclaim.
"Very skeptical of Josh". No given reason. At this point Josh is obv the D1 lynch.
Says SpryeX is "less jovial, less outspoken" than usual.
Is way, way too ready to lynch Josh, for "purposely misinterpreting things" - his example is the slippery slope debate. Concludes with "Please, get lynched. Vote: Josh. Still on Page 7. Still reading. Still happy with a Josh lynch."
When SpryeX (not harshly at all, complete with a wink smiley face) responds to his comments, he says "Just observing, sheesh. Don't get your panties in a bunch. Have NONE of you on this whole fucking board EVER heard of '"hyperbole?'"
D2, he votes a lurker. Laughably, he also says "I also have some suspicions about Darox (admitted active lurking, distancing from Josh)"
When Darox pressures CMAR, he says to CMAR, "So, what you're

really

saying is that your target ceased to be a target, and, for whatever reason, you declined to even look for another target. Gotcha."

In essence: he seems to think everyone is scum. As soon as anyone is under any kind of pressure at all, he jumps onto them as though he's always been there. Furthermore, whenever he perceives any kind of pressure on himself (above, in the response to Darox, and also in the back-and-forths with CMAR), he responds with venomous ad-hom.

I'm definitely happy with a CMAR lynch. I'm fairly sure one is scum, and it's possible both are scum, and I don't see the other contributing positively to the game anyway. But I think NS is more likely to be scum, and CMAR's more likely to be just stupid.

Why am I stupid again? Because I didn't post for a while, I spectated about the setup, and I provided cases on my suspects while defending myself from every argument?

[CryMeARiver]

Why am I stupid again? Because I didn't post for a while, I spectated about the setup, and I provided cases on my suspects while defending myself from every argument?

The grownups are talking right now. Go to your room.

Furthermore, whenever he perceives any kind of pressure on himself (above, in the response to Darox, and also in the back-and-forths with CMAR), he responds with venomous ad-hom.

Noted that you can't answer the question

[CryMeARiver]

That's pretty convincing. Yeah, I could go for a NS lynch over CMAR.
Let's get the ball rolling.

Vote: Nobody Special

I am stunned. He virtually posted the same thing I posted.

*crawls off to his room*

[CryMeARiver]

That's pretty convincing. Yeah, I could go for a NS lynch over CMAR.
Let's get the ball rolling.

Vote: Nobody Special

I am stunned. He virtually posted the same thing I posted.

*crawls off to his room*

Seriously though, you pretty much posted what I did.

[CryMeARiver]

That's pretty convincing. Yeah, I could go for a NS lynch over CMAR.
Let's get the ball rolling.

Vote: Nobody Special

I am stunned. He virtually posted the same thing I posted.

*crawls off to his room*

Seriously though, you pretty much posted what I did.

You just don't have my animal magnetism.

That's why animals hate me. OHHHHHH'

[CryMeARiver]

@Zang could you elaborate a bit on your suspicions?

Well, easjo hasn't posted anything this day except a V/la notice which is expired (as you can tell by the prod). But now that I look back at the skeward I don't really see him as scum. So I'll vote for easjo,

Vote: easjo682

Why don't you see him as scum anymore?
Why vote the lurker? Any thoughts on the case on me/NS?

[CryMeARiver]

Hey cruelty. CMAR lynch isn't happening today. NS is where it's at. Switch?

I find him very scummy, but wait for easjo/replacement

[CryMeARiver]

He voted before this whole push that way.
His unvote was because CMAR promised content (which hasn't been delivered).

Are you fucking serious? Everyone seems to have missed my case on NobodySpecial and everyone is referring to Skeward's when mine goes way more in depth. I seriously had to double check that my case/analysis even went through the way everyone is ignoring mine.

I do love the fact that SpyreX today has done the following:
Tunneled me
Referred to dead scum Josh multiple times
Buddied NobodySpecial
He seems to be arguing for NobodySpecial and they are walking circles around each other and confusing the hell out of me.

I still love this though:

Yes, CMAR, I suspect you are total scum. Hence, my vote.

Then completely ignores my case on him and refers to Skeward's case

I do agree, though, that CMAR is just being VI.

[CryMeARiver]

And, look at that. Beetlejuice, Beetlejuice, Beetlejuice.

Posted: Fri Apr 30, 2010 7:36 pm Post subject: 60
Posted: Mon May 03, 2010

4:43 pm

Post subject: 61

Posted: Mon May 03, 2010

4:34 pm

Post subject: 508

Good LORD I don't even know what else to say.

Wow, you are retarded. Look at my other games moron, I've been absent with minimal posting. I had an essay, a presentation, and the day I tried to get on (two days ago?), the site wouldn't load.

[CryMeARiver]

And, look at that. Beetlejuice, Beetlejuice, Beetlejuice.

Posted: Fri Apr 30, 2010 7:36 pm Post subject: 60
Posted: Mon May 03, 2010

4:43 pm

Post subject: 61

Posted: Mon May 03, 2010

4:34 pm

Post subject: 508

Good LORD I don't even know what else to say.

Wow, you are retarded. Look at my other games moron, I've been absent with minimal posting. I had an essay, a presentation, and the day I tried to get on (two days ago?), the site wouldn't load.

Not to mention, I never saw your 4:34 post when I posted my 4:43 post. It wasn't even a response to that...

[CryMeARiver]

Maybe the new blood will interject some life. That'd be nice.

I'm now fairly confident that Darox and TheSkeward aren't scum together though - that whole "SpyreX, this is obviously what he meant." and then TS coming in and saying he was wrong sure doesn't click for a scum team.

TS: Thoughts on Darox answering for you?

I appreciate his support and I'm glad we appear to be thinking along the same wavelengths (I've gotten that feeling since the game began). At the same time, I'm unsure of his alignment and don't trust him more than anyone else (besides those I think are scum, namely CMAR and NS).

Unvote; Vote: CryMeARiver

Yeah, yeah, flipflopping, votehopping, wagonstopping. The reasons for this are twofold.

1) Nobody Special actually wasn't voting CMAR. Part of the reason I find NS scum is his opportunism, but discovering that it goes as far as comments and not as far as votes makes him less scummy.

2) CMAR and I had an exchange after I convinced Darox to switch over, where he went from hostile to buddyish, as I made a couple of jokes (posted his avatar, and commented that he was missing my animal magnetism). Since then, he's stopped attacking me. Although I won't claim that judging his reaction was all part of my master plan, the way he changed behavior so quickly definitely rang my bells. It could be town gratitude, but I'm not convinced.

Neither of these on their own would get me to switch back, but both together will. Note that I'm still fine with a NS lynch.

First of all, he did vote me. With his only reason being that:

Yes, CMAR, I suspect you are total scum. Hence, my vote.

No where else does he show that he suspects me. It's a clear bandwagon, followed by:

I do agree, though, that CMAR is just being VI.

Seriously?...

Also, how the heck am I buddying you? I still found you scummy, not as bad as NS, but still you were my number 2 suspect. I was happy that you moved your vote off town, but that didn't win you town points. Though I do enjoy to see you waffling just trying to get a quick lynch today. You don't care who gets lynched because you know we are both townie?

Unvote; Vote: Skeward

Active lurker who tunneled Josh all day 1. That is literally all he did. I don't even know if he followed the Josh-SpyreX argument because he never mentions it. The only reason he votes Josh is based off the fact that he wanted to pressure Ooba by leaving him at L1 and that was antitown. And then today with the:

Unvote; Vote: CryMeARiver

I still think Nobody Special is scummier, but CMAR is a good lynch as well.

Another bandwagon vote with no reasoning. Most of the wagon on me is ridiculous bandwagoning because people want a quicklynch, as seen here:

CMAR: I would like your final reads, please. Tell us who you think is town and who you think is scum. Reasoning is optional and appreciated.

I'm already dead to him.

He then provides a case on Nobody Special, which is pretty much my exact case that I had on NobodySpecial, and votes him

Unvote; Vote: Nobody Special

Hey Spry. Switch to NS please?

Hey cruelty. CMAR lynch isn't happening today. NS is where it's at. Switch?

But no, now he must vote me because he just wants to get a townie lynched quick hence his waffling. Seriously, ISO the guy, half of his posts are filler. The one that made me crack up:

testing, 1, 2, 3.

You should seriously start evaluating your cases on me. I still don't see anything.

[CryMeARiver]

OMGFG ULTRA REREAD MEGAPOST

Page 1
Skeward #11 - Seems like a town-tell to me.

Page 2
Magna #50 - I don't see the logic behind this.

Page 3
Scummy Josh play but he's already dead soo...

Page 4
CMAR #79 - Soft claim request at pg 4. Do not like.
Spyrex #88 - Argh, Lame excuse + WIFOM extravaganza. Not really a tell, but it's anti town.
Skeward #90 - is awesome. Moar town points.

Page 5
Slaine #100 - Hesitation to move vote to scum. Added bonus is he's voting for Spyrex obvscumwagon .
Slaine #110 - This seems all sorts of forced. What kind of silly question is that?
Darox #117 & #121 - What the hell is this? If anything this looks like a ruse. A weird one that doesn't make sense.

Page 6
Spyrex #139 - Good posting.
Ooba #148 - Massclaim attempt? Not sure. Fishy though.

Page 7
Zang #167 - Defending previously unconfirmed scum now are we?
Magna #172 - Wait, what? Why would you point out a possible breadcrumb attempt?

Page 8
Slaine #176 - Still refusing to take a stance.
Darox #180 & #193 - Could possibly be a soft defense for Josh. Not sure though.

Page 9
ooba #200 - Has a town scent, but I don't see why scum won't do this too though.
Yos #217 - votes Slaine who is my top scum read currently.
ooba #218 - The SpyreX FOS could be misled townie, or scum defending Josh. Not sure. Without the knowledge that Josh was scum, I see some town doing this. However, I definitely don't think scum would be this brave to openly defend a scum partner. That's WIFOM though. I like the vote though. Slight town.
Zang #220 - Lame. Although the subsequent Josh interaction gives him some town points. cruelty is right about his VIness though.

Page 10
Darox #227 - Nice try scum.
Slaine #229 - Fence sitting.

Page 11
Spyrex #263 & #271 - Awesome posts. I heart SpyreX already.

Page 12
Darox #290 - More of the same Josh defense. Actually, I don't think scum would openly defend a scummy player like this. Josh keeps digging his own grave. If anything, All the points made by SpyreX are good. I'm thinking there would be a bus somewhere here.

Page 13
ooba #304 - Hmm...Scum would be more willing to do a bus at this point IMO. Plus he's FoSing obvtown SpyreX and scum Josh. Looks like misled townie. But not sure.
Yos #302 - Yos death due to ooba speculation.
SpyreX #315 - I don't get why suspecting both sides is scummy.
NS #320 - Is all kinds of forced. Trying to fit in, reliving the useless scum innkeeper ruse ie. let's go back to talking about useless things and wasting time!, Very skeptical of Josh but no vote ie awkward bus tension, flings some dirt on obvtown who's pushing scum, 'more tonight' comment ie: 'Let town cook on the bullshit info I'm spreading'. I regret that we have but one lynch a day.

Page 14
NS #336 - Glad we're done with the awkward pre-bus tension. Also, still at page 7 an
Zang #338 and #349 - Wow. uh. First time I've seen self-hammering without self-hammering. The timing is incredibly weird. There is a lot of time before Zang's fake/wrong L-1 (1:38am here...but I'm at a diff timezone) and Josh' self hammer (12:17pm). Then Zang hammers at 9:57pm. Doesn't seem like an attempt to secure a bus but that's what they want me to think..I think... Hmm... This is an awesome bus if it is one though.

Page 15
Oh fuck me. I did not know what a traitor was until I saw the official lynch. Josh's traitor flip just did to my reads what my ex-girlfriend did to my heart. Broke it into itsy bitsy pieces and left me empty. God fucking damnit. Now this reread just lost half of it's worth in the scumhunt arena. Excuse me while I smash my head against the wall.
CMAR #356 -Suspecting my top scum read. Not sure what I think atm.
Skeward #361 - I almost forgot this guy was in the game.
NS #368 - obvious scum post looking for an easy lynch.

Page 16
ooba #382 - Good catch. Scum points for CMAR
Darox #398 - Good catch. More of the above

Page 17
CMAR #410 - That doesn't really count if Josh was the traitor as explained in the wiki.
ooba #422 - is awesome and town.
Skeward #423 - Argh. What the fuck. Flip flop with no explanation? Terrible play. Although the fact that he finds my top scum read scummy is good.

Page 18
CMAR #435 - Flailing scum.
CMAR #449 - ............I HATE YOU(not personally). Why oh why did you have to mention my entire case on my scum read before I had the chance to post it. Arghhhhhh. I now think you are town and you've screwed up my reads...AGAIN. Just like my second ex-girlfriend. I hope and pray that my third ex-girlfriend does not show up in this game. Ugh. Anyway, this means that only one of them is scum.

Page 19
Darox #450 - Do not like. It's a pretty impressive case actually. Although Darox has been thickheaded throughout the game anyway so I'm not sure what I think of this.
Skeward #458 - He seems to have reached the same conclusion I have. Not really a tell, but I really liked his early vote on Josh + the first post I mentioned in this reread.
SpyreX #469 - Well, this is not awesome. I hate fluctuating reads. Why are you being hardheaded on a weak 'Josh didn't mention CMAR' case over CMAR's awesome #449?

Page 20
NS #491 - Right, call the guy who made a pretty awesome case against you a VI.
Spyrex - Your NS defense is duly noted. We know who to go after once he flips.

Conclusions:
One of NS/CMAR is scum.
NS Scum seems to lead to Spyrex and/or Darox scum. If CMAR is scum...I'm not sure yet.

Ooba is town
Skeward is probtown
Zang is null
cruelty is null
Magna is null

I personally want the NS lynch today because there are some major connections between him and Spyrex/Darox. CMAR doesn't seem to have much connections and the communal hate on him seem to indicate that his wagon is a scumwagon. Although his overall scumminess throughout the game does not save him from my lynch list.

I seem to have replaced into a extreme lurker spot. If my town reads ever found my predecessor's lurkiness malicious, feel free to ask. I think I can explain why she lurked like a mofo but I don't think I should yet.

Not sure if you realized this, but Josh was Isolated Traitor - scum probably didn't even know about him. It's hard to get scum reads based off of connections thru him.

[CryMeARiver]

OMGFG ULTRA REREAD MEGAPOST

Page 1
Skeward #11 - Seems like a town-tell to me.

Page 2
Magna #50 - I don't see the logic behind this.

Page 3
Scummy Josh play but he's already dead soo...

Page 4
CMAR #79 - Soft claim request at pg 4. Do not like.
Spyrex #88 - Argh, Lame excuse + WIFOM extravaganza. Not really a tell, but it's anti town.
Skeward #90 - is awesome. Moar town points.

Page 5
Slaine #100 - Hesitation to move vote to scum. Added bonus is he's voting for Spyrex obvscumwagon .
Slaine #110 - This seems all sorts of forced. What kind of silly question is that?
Darox #117 & #121 - What the hell is this? If anything this looks like a ruse. A weird one that doesn't make sense.

Page 6
Spyrex #139 - Good posting.
Ooba #148 - Massclaim attempt? Not sure. Fishy though.

Page 7
Zang #167 - Defending previously unconfirmed scum now are we?
Magna #172 - Wait, what? Why would you point out a possible breadcrumb attempt?

Page 8
Slaine #176 - Still refusing to take a stance.
Darox #180 & #193 - Could possibly be a soft defense for Josh. Not sure though.

Page 9
ooba #200 - Has a town scent, but I don't see why scum won't do this too though.
Yos #217 - votes Slaine who is my top scum read currently.
ooba #218 - The SpyreX FOS could be misled townie, or scum defending Josh. Not sure. Without the knowledge that Josh was scum, I see some town doing this. However, I definitely don't think scum would be this brave to openly defend a scum partner. That's WIFOM though. I like the vote though. Slight town.
Zang #220 - Lame. Although the subsequent Josh interaction gives him some town points. cruelty is right about his VIness though.

Page 10
Darox #227 - Nice try scum.
Slaine #229 - Fence sitting.

Page 11
Spyrex #263 & #271 - Awesome posts. I heart SpyreX already.

Page 12
Darox #290 - More of the same Josh defense. Actually, I don't think scum would openly defend a scummy player like this. Josh keeps digging his own grave. If anything, All the points made by SpyreX are good. I'm thinking there would be a bus somewhere here.

Page 13
ooba #304 - Hmm...Scum would be more willing to do a bus at this point IMO. Plus he's FoSing obvtown SpyreX and scum Josh. Looks like misled townie. But not sure.
Yos #302 - Yos death due to ooba speculation.
SpyreX #315 - I don't get why suspecting both sides is scummy.
NS #320 - Is all kinds of forced. Trying to fit in, reliving the useless scum innkeeper ruse ie. let's go back to talking about useless things and wasting time!, Very skeptical of Josh but no vote ie awkward bus tension, flings some dirt on obvtown who's pushing scum, 'more tonight' comment ie: 'Let town cook on the bullshit info I'm spreading'. I regret that we have but one lynch a day.

Page 14
NS #336 - Glad we're done with the awkward pre-bus tension. Also, still at page 7 an
Zang #338 and #349 - Wow. uh. First time I've seen self-hammering without self-hammering. The timing is incredibly weird. There is a lot of time before Zang's fake/wrong L-1 (1:38am here...but I'm at a diff timezone) and Josh' self hammer (12:17pm). Then Zang hammers at 9:57pm. Doesn't seem like an attempt to secure a bus but that's what they want me to think..I think... Hmm... This is an awesome bus if it is one though.

Page 15
Oh fuck me. I did not know what a traitor was until I saw the official lynch. Josh's traitor flip just did to my reads what my ex-girlfriend did to my heart. Broke it into itsy bitsy pieces and left me empty. God fucking damnit. Now this reread just lost half of it's worth in the scumhunt arena. Excuse me while I smash my head against the wall.
CMAR #356 -Suspecting my top scum read. Not sure what I think atm.
Skeward #361 - I almost forgot this guy was in the game.
NS #368 - obvious scum post looking for an easy lynch.

Page 16
ooba #382 - Good catch. Scum points for CMAR
Darox #398 - Good catch. More of the above

Page 17
CMAR #410 - That doesn't really count if Josh was the traitor as explained in the wiki.
ooba #422 - is awesome and town.
Skeward #423 - Argh. What the fuck. Flip flop with no explanation? Terrible play. Although the fact that he finds my top scum read scummy is good.

Page 18
CMAR #435 - Flailing scum.
CMAR #449 - ............I HATE YOU(not personally). Why oh why did you have to mention my entire case on my scum read before I had the chance to post it. Arghhhhhh. I now think you are town and you've screwed up my reads...AGAIN. Just like my second ex-girlfriend. I hope and pray that my third ex-girlfriend does not show up in this game. Ugh. Anyway, this means that only one of them is scum.

Page 19
Darox #450 - Do not like. It's a pretty impressive case actually. Although Darox has been thickheaded throughout the game anyway so I'm not sure what I think of this.
Skeward #458 - He seems to have reached the same conclusion I have. Not really a tell, but I really liked his early vote on Josh + the first post I mentioned in this reread.
SpyreX #469 - Well, this is not awesome. I hate fluctuating reads. Why are you being hardheaded on a weak 'Josh didn't mention CMAR' case over CMAR's awesome #449?

Page 20
NS #491 - Right, call the guy who made a pretty awesome case against you a VI.
Spyrex - Your NS defense is duly noted. We know who to go after once he flips.

Conclusions:
One of NS/CMAR is scum.
NS Scum seems to lead to Spyrex and/or Darox scum. If CMAR is scum...I'm not sure yet.

Ooba is town
Skeward is probtown
Zang is null
cruelty is null
Magna is null

I personally want the NS lynch today because there are some major connections between him and Spyrex/Darox. CMAR doesn't seem to have much connections and the communal hate on him seem to indicate that his wagon is a scumwagon. Although his overall scumminess throughout the game does not save him from my lynch list.

I seem to have replaced into a extreme lurker spot. If my town reads ever found my predecessor's lurkiness malicious, feel free to ask. I think I can explain why she lurked like a mofo but I don't think I should yet.

Not sure if you realized this, but Josh was Isolated Traitor - scum probably didn't even know about him. It's hard to get scum reads based off of connections thru him.

Well, looks like you did realize it

[CryMeARiver]

What the hell are you talking about?

Read both of them side by side. Here, I'll provide the links for you CMAR, Skeward.

If anything, Skeward basically parroted CMAR's post.

Thank you God! Someone with some sense
Btw, you have the links switched, but it's all good. Thank you for injecting some life into this game. At the moment, I would like to see both Skeward's and NS's responses.

[CryMeARiver]

Oh wait. You were against voting for NS after CMAR post..then Skeward posted the exact same thing CMAR posted(although shorter) then you voted...?

......................I do not comprehend.

Those. were. exactly. my. thoughts.
I love this guy.

[CryMeARiver]

I think I'm putting too much weight on NS being town with some of his later d2 stuff HOWEVER I'm still not sold on this being a better wagon.

So, I'll try this a different way:

What makes CMAR less likely to be scum than NS?

Let's put it this way: What makes CMAR more likely to be scum than NS?

Also, @ Manga: I really like that post, but does your final statement:

If not cruelty will be receiving it for his general lack of scum-hunting, the quick-lynch comment and his resulting WIFOM defense.

not comply with Skeward too? What are your thoughts on him?

@Mod: Please prod Skeward and NS? I'm not sure when their last posts were, but I don't recall anything for a while and I'd like to see their response to VV. Thank you

[CryMeARiver]

Spyrex is scum, Ooba is town, Josh is VI.

Given you have not mentioned Sprex once today I feel the need to ask – is he still scum in your eyes? Or was, as you put it at ISO 26 “totally random you guys”. If so why were you random voting well out of RVS?

TOTALLY RANDOM YOU GUYS.

Cruelty needs to stop being scum.

Is cruelty still scum? Beyond NS (and I still assume CMAR) who do you find most suspicious?

I don't know. Cruelty, have you stopped being scum like I told you?

I seem to have replaced into a extreme lurker spot. If my town reads ever found my predecessor's lurkiness malicious, feel free to ask. I think I can explain why she lurked like a mofo but I don't think I should yet.

Does the explanation have nothing to do with in-game but rely solely on easjo meta? Because otherwise the only other explanation you could offer is role-based. Given you specifically pointed out soft-claim / claim requests as something you didn’t like out of CMAR, myself, ooba I really would like to know if you are inviting requests for some variety of claim yourself. That would seem to be inconsistent. Note that I want nothing of a claim from you just information as to were your explanation comes from.

Thanks Captain Obvious! No one has mentioned this before!

This post is just pure brilliance. I applaud you



BRILLIANT!

[CryMeARiver]

Spyrex is scum, Ooba is town, Josh is VI.

Given you have not mentioned Sprex once today I feel the need to ask – is he still scum in your eyes? Or was, as you put it at ISO 26 “totally random you guys”. If so why were you random voting well out of RVS?

TOTALLY RANDOM YOU GUYS.

Cruelty needs to stop being scum.

Is cruelty still scum? Beyond NS (and I still assume CMAR) who do you find most suspicious?

I don't know. Cruelty, have you stopped being scum like I told you?

I seem to have replaced into a extreme lurker spot. If my town reads ever found my predecessor's lurkiness malicious, feel free to ask. I think I can explain why she lurked like a mofo but I don't think I should yet.

Does the explanation have nothing to do with in-game but rely solely on easjo meta? Because otherwise the only other explanation you could offer is role-based. Given you specifically pointed out soft-claim / claim requests as something you didn’t like out of CMAR, myself, ooba I really would like to know if you are inviting requests for some variety of claim yourself. That would seem to be inconsistent. Note that I want nothing of a claim from you just information as to were your explanation comes from.

Thanks Captain Obvious! No one has mentioned this before!

This post adds literally NOTHING to the discussion.

I'm going to iso Darox as soon as my eyeballs recover from the WALL-O-TEXT from VV. Also, I'll respond. In a bit.

Darox just pisses me off. Hey, do you know Ythan? You two would get along

famously.

Yeah, I'm staring to get the

Red Herring

feeling...

[CryMeARiver]

Vas: This is my opinion, and here is its evidence.
Scummy People: That is not the opinion of the town in general. This is the opinion of the town in general. We don't need evidence.
Vas: You're right, Scummy People. I was wrong and you are right. I will accept your opinion without evidence.

Ummm...what?
He thought NS was scum from the beginning based on HIS evidence. Where is his opinion changed based on anyone else?
Respond to my case please? Respond to his wall of text please?

[CryMeARiver]

Hey, do you know Ythan? You two would get along famously.

QFT.

Posts in one liners and doesn't answer questions? Check.
Flies of the handle when pressured about poor play? Check.
Responds mostly with insults as opposed to logic? Check.
Has a significantly overstated opinion of his own play? Check.

QFT

[CryMeARiver]

Nobody Special is online. Post. I would post the screenshot, but IDK how.

[CryMeARiver]

Nobody Special is online. Post. I would post the screenshot, but IDK how.

And now he's officially offline. He has obviously read VV's post by now (hence his previous post), and he is avoiding the situation.
Also, after rereading VV's post, Skeward's post 11 and post 90 (not ISO) are pro-town, even if mafia doesn't know about Josh being on their side. He is still scummy to me, but the fact that NS just did that...

Unvote; Vote: NobodySpecial

Note: Just checked, and this is L-1
Get back online fool

[CryMeARiver]

CMAR flops like a fish.

Darox: I'm really on a knifepoint between NS and CMAR here. As soon as I settle on one, the other does something scummy. If CMAR gets to L-1, I will hammer him.

That's hilarious coming from King Flop himself (bandwagoned me, bandwagoned NS when I made my case on him, and he copied my case, and when that didn't catch on, he switched back to me). Actually, I am very interested in your case on me.
--I still find you very scummy, but NobodySpecial is continuing to do what we criticized him for. He is in virtue active lurking.

-He is not providing cases against people (not scumhunting). His biggest case was against a lurker, which is not scumhunting at all. He also bandwagoned me without providing reasoning. He is not even defending himself anymore. He is not contributing to the game.

-While I still find you scummy for your

actions

, you are contributing to the game. The difference is that you are scummy for your actions, while NobodySpecial trying to make it look like he is acting, when in essence he is doing nothing, is scummy.

[CryMeARiver]

Unvote; Vote: NobodySpecial

Note: Just checked, and this is L-1
Get back online fool

I count as L-2.

Darox, ooba, VV, CMAR == 4.

6 to lynch.

Prepping my eyeballs to read that humongous thang that VV plopped into the thread.

Expect another post from me within the hour.

Yep, forgot about Skeward's flipflop onto me for a second.

NS:

Vote. Give a case. Go.

This could just be town helping, but it came across to me as trying to help him act more town and almost coaching him

Manga's case on Darox seems very good to me and all sorts of fun. I also enjoyed the analysis of NS's ISO 2. I get a very protown-genuinely scumhunting feeling from Manga. I also get the feeling we have at least one, maybe two scum among Darox, NS, and Skeward.

Stalking someone’s online status isn’t really Pro-town.

I was actually checking out if my mod of another game (Light-kun) was online and happened to notice NS was online. This grabbed hold of my interest.

NobodySpecial is at L1. You previously stated that your buddy, Skeward's, case on NobodySpecial was very good. Funny thing, he's not even voting him anymore, but rather voting somebody he doesn't even have a case on. By signing this contract, you officially state that you are buddying NobodySpecial and do not want to risk his death, or here a claim. To make this official, please sign here, initial here, and sign here.

Unvote Because I'm suddenly more interested in CMAR and want to look at some things before anyone dies.

Thank you for complying with the contract. This contract does not end until the end of this game, or upon both of your deaths. Thank you, have a nice day.

When the hell did I unvote?

Oh yeah, when VV replaced in.

Well, VV is still as scummy as easjo was.

Vote: VV

Potential scumbuddies: Darox

I will answer Magna's post later today (may be as late as tonight) and will follow up on my Darox case.

When did you unvote easjo? Oh, you don't remember this?

[quote="NobodySpecial?]Yes, CMAR, I suspect you are total scum. Hence, my vote. [/quote]
Not surprised you forgot since it was a straight out lie and when I called you out on it, you unvoted me in your next post.

VV is scummy? I enjoyed his wall of text. It analyzed the game and summed it up rather well and brought up some new points.
Sorry if you think he's scum because it hurt your eyes.

You vote someone, once again, without providing a case on them (only their active lurking replacee, which hardly counts), yet promise a case on somebody else? Hmmm...

ZANG, ARE YOU EVEN PAYING ATTENTION TO THE GAME? WHY ARE YOU POSTING ABOUT MINOR THINGS WHILE IGNORING THE BIG THINGS? HAVE YOU EVEN POSTED AN OPINION ON ME/NOBODYSPECIAL? HELL, HAVE YOU EVEN POSTED ANYTHING ON ANYONE? Why do you find VV scummy?

Skeward, respond to 566?

I'm and sadly going to be V/LA with limited Internet access for the next week. I will especially try hard to get on for this game, but it will be tough. I won't be returning until after the deadline (May 16th I return, May 13th is the deadline) and I suppose an extension is out of the question? I am very sorry for this, and, I warn you now, it would be very stupid of town to kill me today without me returning. The only cases on me have been old and wornout and SpyreX (the one with an actual case on me as opposed to BWers cruelty and Skeward) has not provided anything new aside from the "Josh never mentioned you" since then. If anyone still thinks I should be the lynch of the day, I'd be more than happy to hear your reasoning.

[CryMeARiver]

@Darox 546 - 547: How similar they are depends on interpretation. Plus, total misrep there: You completely ignored the first part of Skeward's NS case which was the parroty waffle I was arguing about.

Calling an argument worthless indirectly defends the accused because it openly calls the argument weak and thus the argument will some lose credibility to convince people

@Magna 548: A little of both. easjo was a lurker to begin with the added bonus was the role which, in my eyes, explains the lurkiness.

@Spyrex 549: Total lack of effort to do scum hunting = survival mode and also inability to take risks by NS makes him more likelier to be scum. See below.

@Skeward 555: Humor me. What are you talking about? Also, what do you think of my parroting accusation to you?

@Nobody Scum 569 & 575: Oh cool, he votes for me! And he thickheadedly justifies why we should lynch the null easjolurker spot/awesome Vastown spot instead of listening to reason! ie: I'd rather be silly than risk my mislynch for the good of town.(you know, something like...I might die but at least my death will lead to scum's death because he was there voting for me!)

Also, I like:
the passive aggressive tone, which is somewhat of a scumtell,
the hesitation to mention CMAR(whom he should be eyeing right about now, if he was town)
and the attempt to earn town cred by not doing one of them scummy self preservation votes.

I don't think there is any room for discussion here, especially due to CMAR's somewhat convenient V/LA(Although, lying about that is borderline unethical so I'm assuming he isn't). Let's lynch NS scum and move on shall we?

Nah, I'm v\la in all my games, goikng to a timeshare in hiltonhead. As of now I'm on my way and using a tiny phone to check on. Happy for the extension though. Thanjs badger!
I would still like an explanation on darox for his unvote though.

[CryMeARiver]

Holy fuck no, no, no
Neither of us is scum, just what I feared - NO ONE HAMMER
Listen, I can't copy my role or all the stuff that I can include right now, but my role is spiritualist, I can talk to the dead thru "the void"
I have a ton of info, but I can't access the quicktopic thread of this tiny freakin phone

[CryMeARiver]

Holy fuck no, no, no
Neither of us is scum, just what I feared - NO ONE HAMMER
Listen, I can't copy my role or all the stuff that I can include right now, but my role is spiritualist, I can talk to the dead thru "the void"
I have a ton of info, but I can't access the quicktopic thread of this tiny freakin phone

[CryMeARiver]

Holy fuck no, no, no
Neither of us is scum, just what I feared - NO ONE HAMMER
Listen, I can't copy my role or all the stuff that I can include right now, but my role is spiritualist, I can talk to the dead thru "the void"
I have a ton of info, but I can't access the quicktopic thread of this tiny freakin phone

[CryMeARiver]

Holy fuck no, no, no
Neither of us is scum, just what I feared - NO ONE HAMMER
Listen, I can't copy my role or all the stuff that I can include right now, but my role is spiritualist, I can talk to the dead thru "the void"
I have a ton of info, but I can't access the quicktopic thread of this tiny freakin phone

[CryMeARiver]

I am so torn.

I just re-read CMAR in iso. Go, read it, the patterns are there -- waffling; lots of promises of "content" later, then nothing; just a general gut feeling that he's scum.

I think that I've pretty much proved my towniness with my Role PM quote, so it's not like I'll look too scummy if I hammer, but -- I should give him a chance to at least claim. Or defend himself. Or something.

Okay, if he responds in the next day or so, I'm ready to hammer. I'm ready to hammer now. But I'll give him a chance to bury himself some more if he can.

Potential hammerers: me, ooba, magna, zang. I'm willing.

Wow, if you are town, you are a real douchebag.
Bury myself? I think its clear you have been WAY more scummy than me.

[CryMeARiver]

Info I can remember of the top of my head:

I have a large post from yos that he wrote up to confirm my claim
Yos was a miller, but he did not know he was a miller, though his role pm specified that he wasn't really a nice guy
He was a weak vig meaning he is part of an angry mob that individually selects a person to vig each night, and if there is a majority, that person will be killed - he chose slaine hayes last night (someone could claim and confirm this or we could just coordinate there kills without them claiming)
Josh did not know his scumbuddies, despite him being a doc, and they did not know him

I breadcrumbed many of these things, but no one caught on.

[CryMeARiver]

You can talk to every person who dies in the game?

Freakin awesome, right?

[CryMeARiver]

VV, stop being dumb.

Did I say I disbelieve the claim anywhere?

No.

Did I say he should not listen to whatever a mod-confirmed scum role tells him? Yes.

Yos and I did not at first but he said something along the lines of "now that I'm dead, I have no reason to wifom"

Quote tags fixed -EB

[CryMeARiver]

Oh wait unvotes, right.

Unvote, Vote: VasudeVa

I'm very interested in NS's first real case on someone, but 4 now, I agree:

Unvote; Vote: VV

Seems paranoid that he I ccan talk to josh
Didn't even read my claim?
Filled scummy spot
Fail softclaimed

But seriously, it's either him or darox definitely

Fixed bold tags -EB

[CryMeARiver]

Mod, you failed
They did not reach a majority and town still could have won tonight with the vigs
Game is broken
Oh, and I called both mafia in this: http://www.quicktopic.com/44/H/J2YrTJsVGm2

[CryMeARiver]

sorry guys

Yeah, that sucked, but game is broken so no one won.

[CryMeARiver]

Oh, my bad, nevermind

[CryMeARiver]

Gosh damn, I called mafia right when I died. I was PRAYING there would be a mafia doc and I wouldn't die, but oh well. Good game ooba and Spy. But I caught you

[CryMeARiver]

It was blatantly obvious that SpyreX was scum and Skeward was

not

,in any shape or form, scum. Why you guys lynched the other over the other is beyond me.

Personally, I thought the above statement was clear as well.
@ooba, I wasn't confused at the end I don't think, if I remember, I was just hoping darox happened to flip scum.
@darox: claiming innkeeper in hopes to make scum think you were doc to draw the nightkill was brilliant! And it would have worked if I wasn't forced to claim because scum was forcing my wagon.

[CryMeARiver]

VV, you and me need to have a "I got mislynched by a stupid town" drink. Or alternatively, play another game together. Even when I thought you were the best lynch I liked the way your thought processes worked.

Did u read the gy? I want to nbe in on that drink! Drinks on spyreX!
I didn't like your play while I was alive though :p you waffled and active lurked
Btw, VV, sorry about the lynch. If you remember, I was on vacation. I got back on to unvote you because I realized you could be a doc that I needed,and u were already lynched. Good game and sorry :p