Karma Mafia (Game Over!)

[dybeck]

@farside: If his play here is consistent with other games in which he's been town, doesn't that back up his town credentials?

@dybeck: why are you so intent on defending a player who isn't really under any pressure when you should be scumhunting?

[Seraphim]

Mod: Can we get a prod on bv310?

I feel like Richard and bv are slipping underneath the radar...neither have provided good explanations for their play.

I am also getting very bad reads from dybeck. His 180 on ABR is very suspect due to his sudden shift in reasoning...erratic =/= pro-town but erratic =/= scum either. One needs to take his play in the context of the game...dybeck might be making an opportunistic leap onto a budding wagon. I don't like Pom's play much either. This I can't articulate.

Still, I feel like bv310 is the place to be. My gut and my head are in agreement.

[dybeck]

@dybeck: why are you so intent on defending a player who isn't really under any pressure when you should be scumhunting?

Dunno. Maybe I should repeat my previous question before it gets lost in all this waffle.

@Anon, Porochaz, Espeonage, My Milked Eek, Pomegranate: Who would be your top two pro-town players and your top two scum players, if you were able to lynch anyone right now?

[Seraphim]

@dybeck: why are you so intent on defending a player who isn't really under any pressure when you should be scumhunting?

This is a good question you should be asking yourself. Oh, wait...you are. hmm. So, I'll mirror it back. Consider your question asked to yourself.

[farside22]

@farside: If his play here is consistent with other games in which he's been town, doesn't that back up his town credentials?

@dybeck: why are you so intent on defending a player who isn't really under any pressure when you should be scumhunting?

No as he plays the same as scum looking town.

As for the question to self is there a point to it? You want me to ask it? Could it be the vig comments?

[dybeck]

One needs to take his play in the context of the game...dybeck might be making an opportunistic leap onto a budding wagon.

Which budding wagon are you referring to?

[Seraphim]

Espeonage. In the last few pages, it has been the most 'popular' wagon, I think.

[Ojanen]

I was asking you about your views after reading this OJ.

On Richard:
So I was totally on Richard's side at first. Ckd totally comes on as doing a policy hounding thing. That's more reaction inducing than random bandwagoning because it's directly saying YOU SUCK to someone's face. I thought this []
and some similar accusations were kind of ridiculous, exaggerating Richard and downplaying ckd.

I'm not sure what you mean then by downplaying CKD's actions during the day. Could you expand more on this?

You took it thoroughly out of context by snapping out a quote (from yourself, actually) from the point where I now added in []. The word "this" was referring to the quote in the middle, not ckd.
Richard did all of the more scummy stuff later than this part so I'm not saying people overreacted later (also a part you cut from my quote), but at this point I thought some did. Ckd came on with his dance, Richard said exactly 2 things:

If this is some kind of attemp at a Policy Lynch, please stop.

I've played with him before and he's under the impression that I'm terrible at the game.
Does it look random to you? He voted me 3 times for emphasis.

And you representing this as "Richard being obsessed with CKD's vote on him is ridiculous." came on as strange to me.

[Patrick]

Votecount

Albert B. Rampage (1) -- My Milked Eek
RichardGHP (9) -- Porochaz, Faraday, Sando, Jahudo, bv310, NickF227, Pomegranate, Javert, boberz
bv310 (7) -- Papa Zito, Anon, Seraphim, Espeonage, farside22, curiouskarmadog, RichardGHP
Espeonage (2) -- Ojanen, dybeck
Pomegranate (1) -- Albert B. Rampage

Not voting: Nobody
20 alive, 11 to lynch.

bv310 not prodded as he posted under 48 hours ago.

[Ojanen]

Espeonage. In the last few pages, it has been the most 'popular' wagon, I think.

Look at the votes casted, not true.
Still waiting for Esp, btw, the prod resulted to a "was prodded" post.

[Seraphim]

Well, when it has been 48 hours in 4 hours, can you prod him?

[Seraphim]

Espeonage. In the last few pages, it has been the most 'popular' wagon, I think.

Look at the votes casted, not true.
Still waiting for Esp, btw, the prod resulted to a "was prodded" post.

In terms of votes, no. Hence the quotes. I think a lot of people have agreed with the overall sentiment, though.

[dybeck]

A good solid read of the game would be good from bv310.

Seraphim: what's your general impression of the players ON the bv wagon? Generally town? Or some bussers on there?

[bv310]

He prodded me anyway. Prod received. Catchup post coming in a bit. Sociology class is extra boring today.

[farside22]

I was asking you about your views after reading this OJ.

On Richard:
So I was totally on Richard's side at first. Ckd totally comes on as doing a policy hounding thing. That's more reaction inducing than random bandwagoning because it's directly saying YOU SUCK to someone's face. I thought this []
and some similar accusations were kind of ridiculous, exaggerating Richard and downplaying ckd.

I'm not sure what you mean then by downplaying CKD's actions during the day. Could you expand more on this?

You took it thoroughly out of context by snapping out a quote (from yourself, actually) from the point where I now added in []. The word "this" was referring to the quote in the middle, not ckd.
Richard did all of the more scummy stuff later than this part so I'm not saying people overreacted later (also a part you cut from my quote), but at this point I thought some did. Ckd came on with his dance, Richard said exactly 2 things:

If this is some kind of attemp at a Policy Lynch, please stop.

I've played with him before and he's under the impression that I'm terrible at the game.
Does it look random to you? He voted me 3 times for emphasis.

And you representing this as "Richard being obsessed with CKD's vote on him is ridiculous." came on as strange to me.

I'm trying to understand what you mean by downplaying CKD.
He is being obsessed. He's obviously bothered to note that CKD voted for him 3 times and admitted to tunneling. I took CKD's comments more as a joke but to me it looked like it got to Richard. Why should someone voting for a player 3 times in 4 pages bother anyone?

[Seraphim]

A good solid read of the game would be good from bv310.

Seraphim: what's your general impression of the players ON the bv wagon? Generally town? Or some bussers on there?

First point: yes. But you said you weren't feeling the bv wagon...do you think it warrants your consideration now?

Second point: bv wagon = Papa Zito, Anon, Seraphim, Espeonage, farside22, curiouskarmadog, RichardGHP

hmmm...if we assume I'm town, I feel the town is the majority here. Richard is VI, I think. That doesn't excuse his play but that's what I'm feeling right now. That's likely to change if he doesn't get off his lazy ass and post. Espeonage is most likely to be bussing scum...I don't get that feeling from Richard.

[Jahudo]

@Nick: respond to post 421.

Still waiting on richard response... still waiting on esperonage response... waiting on bv response.

I'm not against a bv lynch at this time. There's a valid case that's good for a day 1 lynch, but I think its weaker overall than Richard who does not look like a VI.

I don't see Pom as scummy right now, but then again I have a hard time reading Pom.

-------------------

MME is flying hard under the radar and I'm surprised those calling out lurkers are not saying boo about MME.

I thought he was still in V/LA mode, though maybe that's almost over?

Jahudo pst 308: all those comments about lurkers and now you switch to richard after many pages later? WTF?

My Anon and DP votes were for pressure, which didn't really work. But I was investigating Richard at the same time and building a case, so its not like my vote came out of nowhere.

[Ojanen]

I'm trying to understand what you mean by downplaying CKD.He is being obsessed. He's obviously bothered to note that CKD voted for him 3 times and admitted to tunneling. I took CKD's comments more as a joke but to me it looked like it got to Richard. Why should someone voting for a player 3 times in 4 pages bother anyone?

Ok, we see "obsessed" differently. We read the context differently at minimum I think. I assumed reminiscnece of bitter arguing from another topic (these games take ages, that always seems to me to exaggerate this stuff) and a joking or serious, more or less veiled insult and didn't think it strange R would take note. I assume you read it as early, if emphathized voting by one person, showing a sign of caring is scummy.

[dybeck]

Seraphim: what's your general impression of the players ON the bv wagon? Generally town? Or some bussers on there?

First point: yes. But you said you weren't feeling the bv wagon...do you think it warrants your consideration now?

Unlikely, but this game's going nowhere until the majority of this town has heard enough from bv to make an informed decision one way or another.

Second point: bv wagon = Papa Zito, Anon, Seraphim, Espeonage, farside22, curiouskarmadog, RichardGHP

The reasoning behind my question is that it just seems too early for scum to be bussing one of their own. There's an incredibly juicy alternate wagon on Richard that they could be plugging, whilst still flying under the radar. It just doesn't sit right with me that there'd be bussing going on in this specific situation. Does that make sense?

[Espeonage]

Ok I am back.

[Espeonage]

@mod: requesting a prod on Espeonage.

And when you get here, Esp, please answer:

I admitted somewhere that my case on Anon wasn't the most solid of things around. That is why I backed off.

So why was Anon's post "one of the worst readthroughs you'd ever seen" again?

and
why was Anon's catchup the worst readthrough ever, while MME's post was full of win?

Also, I agree that Porochaz' reasoning on the Richard being scummy because he thought ckd conducting a policy vote on him (and was right about it!) was really really weak. Ckd said it was partial policy before Porochaz' vote, and obviously the situation came with some context from another game.

Ok. Anon had no good reasoning for going for which of the three he did other than one had more votes than the others.
I will have a look back at when I said that about MME

[Espeonage]

EBWOP: Because MME pointed out something that town really needed to hear at that point.

[Seraphim]

So, you think the wagon on bv310 isn't warranted because several suspects of possible scum are on the wagon? Well, I disagree. Good scum play is playing like town. Whether or not you're voting your partner, you should a player who is scummy. bv is scummy. People will be voting him. If he's scum, added bonus.

Though, TBH, I think it's too early to be looking for bussing...once we get some flips, then we can talk about it.

Also, Espeonage, please enlighten us on...something. Seriously.

[bv310]

@BV: Who says that argument is never used by pro-town players?

I don't think you've really explained why you found Papa Zito town enough not to consider it a possibility. You specifically asked someone else for "possible benefits", so did you also assume that they (or the town in general) would not need to consider a Papa Zito scum as a possibility?

Or was your question merely rhetorical? In which case, why ask it? Were you using it to start a suspicion on Esperonage?

I didn't say Never, but I don't see it used by town all that often. I still don't feel like PZ is scum though. None of his posting so far comes even close to scummy.

My question wasn't rhetorical, I thought maybe Esp wanted to point out an odd post. On seeing the other points against her, something does seem off though.

[Seraphim]

bv, who is scum?