Mini 944- Town Suav├® - TAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAANK!!!!! (over)

[DTMaster]

confirmeD

[DTMaster]

@Nikanor
Are you going to do a Spyrex Alliance of Epicness?

[DTMaster]

Two way alliance?!!!! Can I join in this epic team?

[DTMaster]

@Nikanor
1. Awesomeness! The brokeness of that PR can be used to confirmed town/scum. I had hoped to see role again since Londontown. But as Muzz says, there is a possibility that we have a scum-RBer.

2. Yes, and no. It's too early to speculate about the number of nightkills via vig/sk/etc.

@Nacho
If one of Nikanor's investigations goes through, and there is nothing stopping him from hiding: then Nikanor is immune to the night kill. Scum would need to kill Nikanor's target or Nikanor would need to target scum.

Confirming town is just as useful as confirming scum. This is literally, better then a sane cop investigation

Also

Vote McZombie

once a flaker, always a flaker. Reads must be generated naos!

[DTMaster]

@Muzz
1. No, it makes scum do catch up play to said investigators. Too many confirmed towns = death for scum.

2. A busdriver? Where did you get that kind of idea from? I thought this was a closed setup.

@Kenman
1. No, you got it wrong, a hider is

a reverse doctor with cop powers

. Basically Nikanor hides with someone: this

a. makes Nikanor immune to kills
b. confirms his target

Why is it reverse? You would need to kill the target to kill both Nikanor and target.

2. Have you played outside the newbie thread?

[DTMaster]

ITT people need to learn to read in context. Ken is specific about 2 scummies, and he joined in January. Newb-tell overflows in this game hence my question.

@Ken

Can anyone help me fully understand the possibilites of this type of game? Any number of mafia less than half the population? What type of town role possibilites are there? And what type of mafia roles are there?

This is a closed setup so there are lots of roles. As a good rule of thumb, there are 3 scum and 9 townies generally. Town and Scum can have power roles beyond the Doctor/Cop/Roleblocker setup you are used to. Those are the common roles but from experience you might have a :

Town Roleblocker, or a Mafia Doctor. You should

@Muzz
Early game gambit makes this unlikely, however you have very good points about verifying Nik's claim and the closed setup.

@Duck
a. Quick question: 4 pages in:

What is there to analyze outside of the Duck/Anon case and the Ken case ?

It's a bit of a stretch to call out your meta argument when we are at the early stages of this game.

b. Pana's questioning is legitimate. Take it into context. Pana was the first to address the Ken issue. I followed up with my newb question, and you guys did your votes. Um

I'm sorry but you obviously found this line of question valid and you are taking it back?

.

c.

Because, while I had rescinded my vote because of lessened suspicion and the danger of a quick-growing bandwagon, he is still the most suspicious in my eyes.

Oi. If you think Ken is the scummiest at the moment, why are you caring about the speed of the wagon? Also, you would need 7 votes on a wagon to force a speed lynch. You'd need to have at least 4 townies to force a speed lynch. If this goes to a mislynch, then you've pretty much outed most of the scum because town will not drive speed lynches, scum will.

Speed lynches = tonnes of good info. 3 votes = danger of speed lynch? Very weak.

d. What are you looking for in Ken's response? Usually if you want a response you question him, you don't wait around for him to post.

@Muzz

Whoa. Whoa. Scumdar alert:

As further evidence of Duck's scumminess, I'd like to present meta from DuckTown in Mafia 94:

Vote Spolium

Bandwagon FTW!

^^ The above has no reliance to this game. This above quote has no alignment attributed to duck based on his vote/wagon. This looks like blatant smearing. Epically scummy here. Game link, alignment information, etc.

Context is everything, and you sir did not provide any.

@Ken

I am not too sure how whether or not I was excited about the hider role makes me appear mafia or not.

This being my first game with this role, I would have brought it up regardless if I was town or mafia. But at least you are providing support and evidence for your claim.

I'm reading this but the bolded just reads all kinds of wrong. Are you trying to say that: you were excited because the Hider can investigate?

Unvote

Vote: Muzz

Duck is all sorts of scummy, but Muzz's quote is even more scummier and makes him look like he's aggravating the Duck wagon. I agree with Pam here.

[DTMaster]

@Muzz
I disliked how you didn't provide the reasoning until

after this was called on

. The way you handled the argument = very bad. How? You provided a quote from outside a game saying:

Duck = bandwagoner in a game where he flipped town.

Then you spend every frequent point afterward elaborating how this is relevant. This isn't a pro-town way of handling the Duck case. This reads as someone taking the back seat.

If you read the argument in Iso it goes:

1. Duck is scummy, proof from other game!
2. Duck should be voting
3.

THEN WE GET THE REASONS

: Duck is scummy because he is careful with his vote, unlike the other game. Duck shows that he was reckless as town with his vote in Mafia 94, but this isn't reflected here.

Again: Why did it take for you to explain this meta call? It reads as if you were beating around the bush with this argument. Assuming that people will come to the same conclusions as you reads as lazy. This type of laziness = scummy.

I gave you the name of the game (Mafia 94) and Duck's alignment there (town). I assumed that would be enough information for people to find the thread. But if not, you can find a linky to that game by clicking the "wiki" button beneath my posts.

While I understand if people who weren't there are unwilling to take my word for it, I stand by my meta argument. Duck seems significantly more careful with his vote than when I last saw him as town. And I intend to figure out why.

^^This oozes with bad vibes here.

@Nacho

Why are you calling L-4 in mafia 94 quicklynchable? That means you accuse Duck for helping put Ken in L-4, which reads as the same in the wagon on Ken.

This argument reads as a lose-lose situation:
a. You can accuse Duck to be attempting to quick lynch -> scummy
b. In an unvote on someone who reads as a town, you are using: OMG YOU DIDN'T WAGON argument + meta -> scummy

In mafia 94:

We had 20 players and 6 people on said wagon

Vote Count as of Post 49
(6) Spolium (Cephrir, Spolium, Adel, populartajo, Simenon, inHimshallibe)
(2) Stef (elvis_knits, ekiM)
(1) Adel (muzzz)
(1) ekiM (duckduck96)
(1) dingoatemybaby (roflcopter)
(1) roflcopter (Darkstrike_11)

(8) Not Voting (Achilles, dingoatemybaby, Empking's Alt, Infection, Kison, Pyromaniac, Stef, The Red Severum)

With 20 players alive, it takes 11 votes to lynch!

Vote Spolium

Bandwagon FTW!

This makes it into a 7 vote in an 11 to lynch game right off the gate. This is

L-4

The latter of the argument is stronger, but I don't think you are correct in your statement of Duck. It looks like you are making the read on Duck more dramatic then it sounds.

@Nikanor
Um, We have big gaping holes in players and posts (aka Zombie, LL, etc). I'd be semi-annoyed if we went into N1 already when we don't have many good reads on said people.

[DTMaster]

ACK. Sorry. I fell behind. DTM catch up post is ago!
@Nikanor
Goose (because I read your vote)!

Wait a minute. Nikanor!

OBJECTION!

/ Phoenix Wright @ this quote

Parama, you realize that duckduck

attacked

Kenman with meta, right? The whole reason for why I want him lynched is because duckduck attacked Kenman with a meta argument, and even said something along the lines of, 'that's one more reason to be suspicious of him,' meaning that duckduck is suspicious of Kenman's actions without voting Kenman (or anyone at all. It might be forgivable if he were voting muzzz or something, but he's not voting anyone atm), making duckduck scum. The lurking from duckduck now is just icing on the cake.

Really, I thought this was obvious.

Meta argument on page four? *Facepalm*

Hey you posted the above in response to Duckduck's meta call right?

People go back to page 4: Muzz also posted a meta attack

As further evidence of Duck's scumminess, I'd like to present meta from DuckTown in Mafia 94:

Vote Spolium

Bandwagon FTW!

Again: What makes this meta argument more valid then Ducks? In your initial page 4 point against Duckduck: You frowned upon Duck's meta call on Ken. This is similar to Muzz's meta call on duck.

I see no indication on where you mentioned any intention of Duck's lack of voting, and weak argument. It looks entirely like you pieced together with the arguments from Muzz, Nacho (called out on Duck's lack of voting), Nobody (Prod Duck please!) with a hint of ConfidAnon and CoheedCambria09, and LL, and who ever else I'm missing on the Duck wagons.

Arguments are obvious once everyone else made them Nikanor. IGMEOY

@Muzz

I'd never call him out for that. I was trying to point out that you, by your own logic, should be calling him out for it.

Wait are you trying to say that: we should be making your arguments for you? (see above) That's totally leaving a ton of back doors for you to escape your arguments with: "Oh I didn't say that, you took my idea and ran with it". + scum points.

@Nobody

Because I hate vote-hopping. I'd prefer if we targeted one player unto death.

Scumdar is ringing off the bells here. In a tunnel heavy environment, scum thrives because if said lynch went through: we'd be resetting our reads every day. My personal theory: Scum hates it when we get a collective list of reads, and votes, and do a VC analysis. Rereads nail them. Tunnel reduce the effectiveness of rereads.

Going to post my Muzz and Nacho responses together in my next post since it goes well to answer both their questions at once (since it deals with duckduck). Pending page 5 questions ago!

[DTMaster]

Also there can never be enough awesome in this game: We should totally invite DGB and have an awesome fest here.

[DTMaster]

Hai, I'm back. From outer space. With a DTManalysis!

@Para

I almost want to lynch SpyreX because he's in nearly all of my games now.
But he's also very awesome.
And muzzz is scummier.
*sigh* nobody trusts my D1 obvscum read though. I get one every game, and I'm right most of the time.

Eww, whiny. I dislike this. Obviously if you aren't convincing people: you aren't doing a good job at bringing out a good case. So get better! "nods"

@Nikanor
Hai. But Muzz metaed Duck? You are ignoring the point. Muzz presented a meta attack on Duck, like Duck presented a meta attack on Ken. Duck's lack of voting, yes that is scummy. Duck's meta attack makes you face palm because it's on page 4? Wait what! Why didn't you apply it to Muzz.

You ignored my question, and for that I

Rope Burn: Nikanor

And your "summary" post is ok now in hindsight. Stop dodging questions or I will kill you.

(Aside: I just thought of a bastardy role: A Greater Hider Serial Killer. The Serial Killer kidnaps a player to murder them: but if you shoot his target you kill the Serial Killer. Your "Kill Dramonic" statement made me giggle and come up with this idea )

(PPS Aside: I heard if you eat lots of fruit, it's actually sweet. )

@Spy
NO LOVE FOR THE DTM? HUH HUH? WHAT ABOUT OUR TIME IN BATTLE MAGE. /tears

@Parama
Because Drac = useless pre-196. What's pro-town about his posts pre-196 huh?

@Muzz

@DTM: no, I'm making Par's argument for him, not the other way around.

Point taken. Your Para choice is convincing, which means that Para is showing strong links towards Duck over you. Hmm however: read the below on how your delivery of your argument was scummy, but the argument itself wasn't.

I'm going to open with this quote:

I did explain my Duck vote, immediately after making it. Post #8 in my ISO. Everybody but you and Par seems to have understood me just fine. If you want to excuse me of being unclear, fine, but saying I didn't explain until later is just not true.

This is true: Muzz you did open your vote on Duck with good reasoning.

@Confid: you're hardly more positive about Ken than Duck was.

But still,

Unvote, vote: Duck

Three votes is hardly anything to worry about. Especially when it's, apparently, not like you were going to be afk for a while. And now you're calling him the most suspicious, yet you're not willing to put him at two votes again?

This is good posting. The following is bad posting. I'll provide in thread numbers for you to refer back to it:

As further evidence of Duck's scumminess, I'd like to present meta from DuckTown in Mafia 94:

Vote Spolium

Bandwagon FTW!

Don't post that without the context- that was a band wagon on someone who had self-voted.

That doesn't change the fact that DuckTown should be voting.

@Nik: when I voted confid I figured that either both of them were scum, or my argument was flawed.

@Par: I'm voting Duck because he's, uncharacteristically, not voting. I think that not voting is

always

a problem. There's only one thing that townies absolutely

have

to do in a game of mafia, and that's vote.

@DTM: I gave you the name of the game (Mafia 94) and Duck's alignment there (town). I assumed that would be enough information for people to find the thread. But if not, you can find a linky to that game by clicking the "wiki" button beneath my posts.

While I understand if people who weren't there are unwilling to take my word for it, I stand by my meta argument. Duck seems significantly more careful with his vote than when I last saw him as town. And I intend to figure out why.

@Suave: Par's voting me, not Ken

I'm sorry: I know you like succinctness (which is awesome yadda yadda), however it took 3 posts to go from: Evidence -> Accusation of action ->

the reason of my attack

on an inflamed Duck wagon.

Wait what? You expected me to step into your shoes: reread the game, come back, and draw the same conclusions as you? I went and reread parts of that game and drew a few conclusions between Nacho and myself, but they were much different. Tell me: how did you expect me to come to your conclusions when it took 3 posts over the course of 1 day for me to actually, understand the full point of your case? Like UGH! Your posts after your vote reads as: someone throwing oil to a fire in order to make it better. UGH!

@Nacho
Nikanor was a trap designed to catch unsuspecting scummies before he could snatch them and devour them in his logic. :p

Also

remember the questions you asked me? here I'll requote

Why are you calling L-4 in mafia 94 quicklynchable? That means you accuse Duck for helping put Ken in L-4, which reads as the same in the wagon on Ken.

It's quicklynchable because there were 4 scum in that game. Practical? No. Quicklynchable? Yes.

And, no. I wasn't accusing Duck of that... what?

In an unvote on someone who reads as a town, you are using: OMG YOU DIDN'T WAGON argument + meta -> scummy

I'd call of it more of a OMG YOU WERE AFRAID TO PUT A SECOND VOTE ON HIM --> scummy, wouldn't you? Note, I'm not using muzzz's argument myself. I'm just pointing out that I see it could be valid, thus why I'm not voting him.

I don't think you are correct in your statement of Duck.

Why not?

Tada! Didn't forget them :3

1. So he's townie if he's reckless and scummy because he's cautious amiright? -> Based on play style change (see below)

Umm... I don't really agree with the forming muzzz wagon; that quote wasn't all that scummy. In the game muzzz referred to, duck didn't hesitate in putting someone within scum quicklynching range for the sake of bandwagoning, while now, he's hesitating to put a first or a second vote on the wagon.

Aside: Plus the first half of the question is so unrealistic: if scum put all their eggs in one basket like that it'll be lols. There is a point where theory falls short of the beast that is known as reality.

2. Is valid, and I see this point after rereads.

3. Because Muzz made things all icky with his triple part post of fire.

[DTMaster]

@Pam

My ego is being stroked very nicely. However this deserves a:



'Cause my ego is being milked in all sorts of ways that Dramonic can explain in detail about.

[DTMaster]

@Nikanor

Facepalm != calling someone scummy. When I think someone is scummy for something, I call them scummy for it.
Using meta on page four isn't inherently scummy play. I thought this was obvious, but maybe this is the communication problem we seem to be having. Using meta on page four is bad play, but it is not scummy. That's why I'm not calling muzzz scummy for using a meta argument.

Hm? It certainly looked like you were calling Duck out on his meta argument. Every time I reread page 4 its:

Duck: Ken isn't playing like this game, he R scummyz.
Muzz: Meta arguuuuumento!
Nikanor: Duck = facepalm. Vote Duck.

You never gave out your reasoning then, so

there is a communication error on your part good sir

. Recall my point about Muzz

There is a transition from vote -> posts posts posts -> main point in your argument.

The posts in between give time for people to delay, change their ideas, create back doors in their arguments when new situations arise.

Tl:dr your vote seriously looks like the meta argument put the final straw in that camel's back and drove you to vote for the duck.

Also remember the number one rule in statistics. Co relation doesn't mean causation.

@Parama
I'm implying you like engaging in activities that stimulate my ego. Aka: What LL said before me: You're heavily buddying me. I dislike this.

@Dramonic

Well, considering I forgot about the Hider claim, I didnt take for a premise that Nik was town.

I just thought of a bastardly role: A scum hider. Hehehehe. Of course the townies would have lots, and lots of night kill potential or that game would be very bastardly.

@ConfidAnon
Oi, wait what: Your catchup post is: Duckduck/SpySpy is scumz still and is picking on the weak DramDram as a diversion. Look over there there is a distraction! And a Scummy Anon.

@SpySpy
I invoke the law of DGB: Obviously someone is in need of Town Cred! Does that help your thoughts?

@Muzz
Aww, I like your first bit about me. "blushes"

But you waffle too much in the latter half. It's a self confession that sounds like: Oh shit! Spy is messing up my reads.

my plan to kill the duck

. There shouldn't be an issue on who you want to attack/press/vote if you find someone scummy.

So let me ask you these two things:

Who are these "anti-town people"? Why are you commenting on Spy's toughness to lynch?

I find the latter to be really bad considering: if you find something scummy there shouldn't be an issue about it. Spy was lynched before. He was scumz before. He got caught before. I saw it. So did Nikanor.

[DTMaster]

@SPY

I made a boo boo so I wanted to type in Pink.

Town Cred

Noun.

A player may bus his buddies to gain town cred.

My original interpretation was: scum can defend townies to appear more creditable. So you were right, I am wrong about Parama and Drac scum team. The only thing that makes sense for that argument is: defensive play via a Chainsaw. But I don't like the chainsaw argument.


@Par

Because everybody does scummy things and one small thing doesn't automatically make a person scum.

Lots of small scummy things add up into a scummy read on someone. :{

Also: I posted less then the mod, but I'm pretty sure I've given lots of comments/reads/comments (according to Nobody anyways). Your policy fails against players like me :p

@Nobody
Your summary post is a textbook case of IIoA. I find the lack of scum reads dishearting. It feels like I'm rereading the thread and you're the echo of the common voice. What are your scum-reads specifically.

[DTMaster]

@Nobody. I'm going to comment on each person to show you how much your analysis fails in terms of outlining your scum reads. Allow me to begin.

Coheed: Not enough Content
Confidant: Feels Town
DTM: Town
Spy/Duck: Duck didn't do so well. Questions for spy. Duck didn't do so well? As in is he scummy-duck? or Did he just play poorly. No distinction made in the Spy/Duck moment here.
Ken: Needs replacement.
LL: Needs more posts
Muzz: Lots of activity. Looks potentially distraction. Potentially not scum hunting. Wait. Is Muzz scummy or not?
Nacho: Lots of posts. No content. Wait. Is Nacho scummy or not?
Nikanor: Lots of posts. Lots of good content. Scum either lurks or is hyperactive. Wait... did you just finger the

whole town and label them as scum?

. Red Flag on Nikanor? No accusation that Nikanor is scummy, just a red flag.
Para: Wall, plus content, plus logic. Hold on....

Wait a minute: Did Nobody just say he liked DTM and Para for content, but Hated Nikanor for content......... and posts.... and the... eff... ????!!$#.

Also: Did Nobody call Nikanor scummy and he didn't vote his scum read?

EDIT: Spy beat me. His is a Tl:DR version of my post. Except Nobody is as wishy washy as soap suds.

Unvote

Vote: Nobody

I support this wagon.
[/ooc]

[DTMaster]

@Suave
You should ask: KittyMo, Cojin, um post in the Replacement Thread, how about Vi (tell him/her/it Awesomeness known as Spy/DTM/Nikanor/Drac is here)

[DTMaster]

@Spy
You know the too towny fallacy. It's like the too scummy fallacy.

Paranoia is part of the game, but follow your

heart of the cards

gut and instincts and

[DTMaster]

Whoa. Farside. Stop stalking me.

[DTMaster]

Farside. Why are you lying. You said I dint push any one and you've read up to page 6? Hello hat happened to my muzz case page 5. Did just ignore my vote and case?

[DTMaster]

Err iPhone fail .

[DTMaster]

@Farside

I forgot to mention: Why did you find me a glimmer of hope when you

failed [/b] called me out on randomly anti-town things

which weren't true

. This feels like subtle, buddying, of

where we are having crumpets in a sunny afternoon

in that attack.

Ok now to the questionare:

About Muzz: He gives me, the

IGMEOY

vibes given the way how he handled the duck case. However his recent posting has

stroked my ego to full fruition

given me an ok read. I've moved on to the Nobody case because I find him scummier.

About LL:

I reread his meta argument against Muzz:

Sarcasm: yes, you're right. I forgot to mention that the wagon in 94 was much like this wagon. My bad. I totally should have announced that I'd be going against all tradition by bringing up meta from a situation that's, *gasp*, actually similar...

And if the difference between "bandwagon ftw" and "I don't really feel like voting for him again until we've heard more from him" is not discernable in your opinion, what is?

Just to be clear, that question isn't rhetorical.

As far as I can see, Duck jumped on a bandwagon in that game and unvoted in his next post after dingo challenged him about it. Sound familiar? You've actually pulled a quote which comes from a series of events that's very similar to this game, based on a game in which Duck was town. You basically grabbed a bandwagon vote you knew would look terrible and posted it here with no consideration of the wider context or properly assessing the two situations in comparison.

Basically in summary it criticized Muzz's meta, while stating that Duck is playing simillar to his own meta. Therefore I read this as LL: Approving of Duck and Disproving on Muzz. Just because LL doesn't directly mention it, doesn't mean there is a level of implied arguments regarding LL's thoughts on Duck.

You're outlining a precisice detail in LL's argument where I go: Oh LL reads as pro-Duck so this fills in that he approves of the meta argument. I see your issue, but I find that LL's stance is more revealing then his lack of comment on a meta argument.

So there is a direct connection between LL/Spy - old duck from here.

@Confid

Pewpew: ConfidAnon

[DTMaster]

@Par
Wait, I thought I drove the Muzz wagon and got off to pursue the more obvious NS wagon. The heck?

[DTMaster]

The God of Town Suave disagrees:

Vote Count 3:

Nikanor
Dramonic
Nobody Special
Nachomamma8
DTMaster
Locke Lamora
Parama
duckduck96 (5) CoheedCambria09, Nachomamma8, muzzz, ConfidAnon, Nikanor
CoheedCambria09
muzzz (3) DTMaster, Parama, Locke Lamora
ConfidAnon
Kenman

Not Voting:

Dramonic, Kenman, duckduck96, Nobody Special

With 12 Alive It Takes

7

to lynch.

[DTMaster]

@Confid
1. Generally you don't use the vote count to defend yourself. This is all kinds of scummy because you are saying, you aren't scummy because the town isn't voting you. How about this, we can multitask. (see below)

@Farside
1. You can answer my questions with strikes (the strikes are a new way for me to express sarcasm).

2. At the moment I find Confid and Nobody scummier then LL, so my vote is going there. However that doesn't mean I can't help with this LL/Duck link case (see below)

EDIT: I just realized that LL is going to be away

for 3 weeks

. :S. With a pending replacement it's not like I can ask the replacee to answer for LL's motives (reread Zachtown where I derailed scum hunting to do that... ugh :<)

Who ever he/she/it is, they'll inherit the strong link and will undergo scrutiny as the time comes. Just like the Spy/Duck issue.

@Nikanor
1. I was in that game with a hider. He died day 1 because "it was a role that was too improbable" (aka scum drove that wagon hard and convinced unknowing town to his dead :<)

2. Some reason it feels like you sidestepped my comment about: how you presented your duckduck vote/meta facepalm comment. You have nothing to say?

@Nacho
ITT I have evidence that you've skipped a ton of pages in your reads. Hell, the bulk of my posts and my interactions have been my criticism of Muzz and how he handled the duck case. In fact

I bloody combined my Muzz case and my comments about Duck that you asked of me to answer for you into a post.

HOW THE HELL DID YOU IGNORE THAT?

I don't know if it's just Nacho skimming through my posts, or if it's a sign that Nacho doesn't care about scum hunting.

@Par
Point taken.

PUNISH THE SUAVE GOD WITH FIRE

@LL
er wait...

@Muzz
A lot of the LL case is based on the LL/Spy link (remember Spy replaced duck duck which I already commented on)

@Dram
You are subtly implying the gut argument here?

@Confid again:
Huzzah. What do you have to say about your conclusions in your "summary posts" that you promised us. You have a vote now, so your defense is quite nulled now. :p

Unvote

Vote: Confid
Vote Nobody Special

[DTMaster]

I'm back. From outer space. And I couldn't ---- ok DTManalysis time.

@NK
I like this NK of Confid.

@FATE
1. OMG WTF BBQ. Hey Fate + Spy + DTM = Awesome 3-way alliance. Tee Hee haa ho. Ok enough inside jokes.

2. Hider + Doc + Vig = Ub3r scum team to counter that. The hider already fulfills the role of both Cop and Doc in one so you'll have a double doc/cop/vig break down.

Edit: Wait.

So we have a claimed Cop. A claimed Killer/vig. A claimed Hider. I think that's everyone in terms of PRs.

@Nikanor
1. So you clear LL/Fate, if you weren't blocked. Unless IRC is diffrent I always assumed hide resolved before RB. :S Or maybe I'm mixing it up with Abduct with the Alien role.

Edit: Dram beat me to this. So I be right.

That means you either clear him, or condemn him

Edit 2: Farside claimed conflicting evidence against LL/Fate. That condemns both of you since as a hider you can't be blocked. But Fate's argument is good since this is normal, the big leagues, sanitizes come in different flavors and styles. Paranoid/Insane/etc.

2. It should be 2 scum so in a

Edit: You already typed out the worst case scenario

K I'm down to lynch. We've gotten all the role information necessary to carry through onto tomorrow. Operation Farside CoP 101 is a go!

Vote Fate

[DTMaster]

Farside/Nikanor/Spy should claim targets.

[DTMaster]

EBWOP: Oh Farside died. ><

[DTMaster]

Interesting. But wait: If Nikanor hid behind Dram and Dram died. Does it have to be via kill to cause Nikanor's death? Or does it stay exclusive to Dram's death?

I should read up on the order of action resolutions. But first Nikanor should claim target.

[DTMaster]

Nikanor needs to claim nao

.

The Hider has the ability to target one player each night. If that player is pro-town, the hider is protected from Night-Kills that night. If the player targeted is killed that same night, the Hider dies too. If the player targeted is Mafia, the hider usually dies.

[DTMaster]

@Spy
Did you address Nikanor in that question? Amiright?

@Par

SpyreX, assuming you were the shot at dramonic then why did you shoot him after Nik said this? :/

Question: How did you know Spy targeted Dram before Spy claimed?

Is it me or does this look like a slip from someone who knew what happened last night. I reread the start of the day and :S.

@Muzz

If I didn't have those scummy vibes from you I might agree but LL gives information in my view and has contributed nothing to the game that wasn't said by others. (Again you miss this point)
information = good
lynching a player that isn't offering anything = good

I'm not missing anything. My last post wasn't about which of Locke/Spy is the better lynch in general, but about whether the Locke/Spy connection is a valid argument to lynch Locke first.

I have actually considered your points. And while those arguments are valid, they lead me to different people. If you want info, lynch me or Spy. That way you can also connect Par. And if you want to lynch a non-contributor you could line up half the town, with Dramonic being a mile ahead of everyone else.

In short, I agree that Locke is probably scum. I just think there are far better lynches to be had today.

Actually I caught something here via exchange with Farside:

a. Muzz commented within the case scenario of information lynches, and anti-town lynches. What I like about Muzz in this post is that Muzz makes the distinction of lynching his top scum suspects rather then lynching the person with the most informational links. Muzz stuck to his guns.

b. This is consistent with his earlier posts with his stance on duckduck. LL link with duck which Farside also brought up.

So part of that scum list makes sense in context. I'm going to reread the links between Muzz -> Spy/Dram scum calls and Muzz -> Dram/NS scum calls because they conflict. Part of the Spy case lies with Dram being town, and vise versa. Not once did Muzz call out bussing/distancing so it looked like Muzz was cycling through Dram with his other scum calls.

Mod can you prod Muzz. He hasn't posted since Wed the 14th granted, part of that was my fault but still ><

[DTMaster]

:<<<<. Temporary replacement? Ask DGB :3

[DTMaster]

Ack sorry. I was responding to Nik's point about you.

Tl:dr version/edited since the first one was unclear. Now I have exams and will be back later today/tomorrow with a refreshed head to think.

1. Muzz gained townie points because his case on Spy/duck -> LL is consistant all game before the V/LA.

2. Muzz kept to his top scum picks, rather then jump onto the LL attacks that farside did.

3. The read on NS/Dram conflict with the reads on Spy/LL. They are on opposite spectrum and the only real thing that I see is that in order of progression it makes sense how Muzz ordered his scum list. However, Muzz didn't link Spy/LL to NS/Dram. There was no distancing/bussing argument that I can see.

[DTMaster]

@Nik's gambit is something he does a lot on IRC.

He claimed Cop as Tracker and , etc. :S. He's reflecting this. I can pull a paste-bin I think from the IRC records.

[DTMaster]

@Par
1. Muzz-town due to his play his consistent all game. Contrary to Nik's argument: it makes sense to why Muzz would consider NS less scummy on his list: aka he was focused on the duck/spy and LL link. That's the jist of my argument

2. I also outlined a partial scum-note which was: Muzz's cases on Dram and NS didn't match up with Spy/LL because Spy was pursuing the latter two people.

AKA -> Muzz appears to go after the easiest wagons, rather then connecting the dots. 1. Shows a lot of focus on duck/Spy, but it doesn't flow when he pressures Dram or NS.

3. Nik-scum can "clear townies" in a "fake hider role". When someone is accurate, it's not always foul-proof. 100% accuracy is indicative of investigation (farside) or scum.

Strong town reads though are good. :p

4. Spy-SK means 1 Mafia scum. The game isn't balanced with 3 mafia 1 SK ----> Nik proved this already.

@Suave

Just replace Keyblade, he has a habit of flaking

[DTMaster]

Posting to say I have 1 exam left so I won't be able to post till Monday afternoonish when I'm done.

[DTMaster]

Sorry finishing my rereads Just wanted to say. DONT HAMMAR. (wait I have the hammer.)

Fate can come. He must be happy from Dramatic and I approve his scum hunting skillz (sorry ><)

[DTMaster]

Muahahahahahahahhahahahahahahahahahhahahahahah!

[DTMaster]

I was the GF so :3 I'm immune to CPRS

[DTMaster]

^^ This.

[DTMaster]

We were two goons, and 1 GF. So the cop was insane me thinks.

[DTMaster]

But due to bad luck, Spy Vigged Wrong Scum!

[DTMaster]

No. Just Kill Immune GF

[DTMaster]

You should count it as an epic loss, where you were alive and dead at the same time during this game. That's a feat a few players can do. D:

[DTMaster]

Pssh. When you should have lynched me for the hammar! D: Anyways I was investigation normal, and I was just kill immune. So Farside = my doom once the sanity was found out.

[DTMaster]

No, Insane cops + a second killer together mucked it up. Insane cops can catch scum easily once the sanity has been found