Mini 937 - Mafia on Death Row OVER

[Damon_Gant]

/icosagon

[Damon_Gant]

Sorry for the double post but it is very vital. I think we are beginning to understand the interests of our mod, just by looking at our words. Food and maths (possibly just geometry) seem to be on the mind.

[Damon_Gant]

If it's food and maths that the mod likes, he must go wild over Pi

I can't believe I let this joke not be told by me.

[Damon_Gant]

Whoever guessed I like geometry should be modkilled

I only said possibly. HAVE MERCY!

[Damon_Gant]

I never imagined Damon Gant begging for mercy.

Hehe, now here's someone who I'd like to go swimming with. I guess since being found guilty of 2 murders, I've started to go a bit mad.

[Damon_Gant]

Vote: My Milked Eek

Lack of evidence for your vote on me. And any evidence you do give must be checked by me for authenticity. Evidence law and such.

[Damon_Gant]

Never mind people's homes, we need more votes on Gant.

OBVSCUM

[Damon_Gant]

L-2 is never worrisome. Especially not this early in the game.

- mafiassk should know this

I agree with this, MafiaSSK is experienced enough to know better.

Unvote. Vote: MafiaSSK

.

[Damon_Gant]

At MME - why does Gant deserve voting for his last name? Please enlighten me as to your history with said Gant.

You never played Phoenix Wright?
If you haven't, do it

now

.

Why is this discussion necessary MME?

Why does every post have to be necessary? Not that it's not necessary, it's very much necessary for everyone to play Phoenix Wright. However, this is just a game, there's nothing wrong with a bit of unrelated chatter here and there.

On a game-related note though MafiaSSK, can you explain why it's scummy to put someone on L-2 in the random vote stage i.e. without reason. I'm pretty sure it isn't, especially when you declare that it's L-2 whilst doing it. In fact, rather the opposite, it's been a great catalyst of conversation for the town.

I find DeathSauce just a touch weird at this point, his posts aren't adding up. Maybe I'm just slow though.

[Damon_Gant]

At MME - why does Gant deserve voting for his last name? Please enlighten me as to your history with said Gant.

You never played Phoenix Wright?
If you haven't, do it

now

.

Why is this discussion necessary MME?

Why does every post have to be necessary? Not that it's not necessary, it's very much necessary for everyone to play Phoenix Wright. However, this is just a game, there's nothing wrong with a bit of unrelated chatter here and there.

Because it can heavily distract the town away from scumhunting.

Bah, it takes a bad town in my opinion to get distracted like that. Also, we're in the early game. It is important to not let people actively lurk by only posting unimportant things, but posting them often, a common scum tactic.

On a game-related note though MafiaSSK, can you explain why it's scummy to put someone on L-2 in the random vote stage i.e. without reason. I'm pretty sure it isn't, especially when you declare that it's L-2 whilst doing it. In fact, rather the opposite, it's been a great catalyst of conversation for the town.

For just that reason. To spark conversation. I don't truly find it scummy in the RVS.

Thought you might say that. Acceptable reason.
This answer is satisfactory.

[Damon_Gant]

EBWOP: Screwed up quote tags and the "This answer is satisfactory." was meant to be deleted. Oh well, you get my point.

Quote tag fixed

-DRK

[Damon_Gant]

Sorry for some reason i can't understand this, please tell me if i have this right. We shouldn't let people active lurk by only posting unimportant things, because people that do could be scum using a common scum tactic?

Yes you got that right. But not because they could be scum but to get discussion going. Early in the game there isn't much information on people so we need discussion.

Whilst it may be true for the early part of the game that it's not much of a scumtell, the further and further into a game you get with people posting only nonsense, the more scummy, or at least, anti-town it is. It's surprising how easy it is to fall into the trap of thinking someone is actively helping just because they're posting a lot.

[Damon_Gant]

GD's wagon was interesting. I feel that the grounds for it were completely ridiculous, but at the same time, it did help to create some genuine discussion. I find the later joins to the bandwagon the most interesting. SSK seemed to hop ship fairly feebly to be honest, if I were to join GD's bandwagon, I would have joined it whole-heartedly to get the most information possible, whether I truly believed in the premise or not.

[Damon_Gant]

Ok so i didn't get to my read up and post last night like i wanted to, so here it is now.

Looking at GD's wagon it definitely grew pretty quick, and could have/had one or more scum on it, either driving it or bussing a partner. GD seemed to expect his wagon to grow on him, and I sure as heck didn't get the theory thing behind his posts, but the thing that stood out to me was MafiaSSK's unvote of GD.

@GreenDude: By posting random theories and providing no evidence along with them you are being anti town. So even if you are town it will help town to do away with you.

Easy hop on for one, for two:

If you do it again though you have my vote.Unvote

So because GD posted a theory, not theories, not only does he become not anti-town, but all of a sudden his is town to the point it will not help town to do away with him? And then the threat of putting the vote on him again if he did it again, just does not sit well with me.

vote MafiaSSK

My thoughts put nicely into words. Thank you.

[Damon_Gant]

GD's wagon was interesting. I feel that the grounds for it were completely ridiculous, but at the same time, it did help to create some genuine discussion. I find the later joins to the bandwagon the most interesting. SSK seemed to hop ship fairly feebly to be honest, if I were to join GD's bandwagon, I would have joined it whole-heartedly to get the most information possible, whether I truly believed in the premise or not.

Hop ship? It was a valid reason to get on and to leave.

The reason to get on was definitely invalid in my opinion. The reason to get off, well...the unvote was just odd. Unvoting because of a singular offense rather than a multiple, and then warning not to do it again...well I just don't get it at all to be honest.

[Damon_Gant]

People who aren't on the MafiaSSK wagon, please explain why. No one except the people on the wagon have talked about it.

[Damon_Gant]

I don't think early vote hopping is a scumtell, and I don't think his reasons for hopping either onto me or GD are scummy.

By itself the hopping onto GD wasn't that scummy, but combined with his odd unvoting shortly thereafter, that is the issue I have with SSK right now.

[Damon_Gant]

I will start by defending myself then move on to using a countercase against someone on the wagon.

GD's wagon was interesting. I feel that the grounds for it were completely ridiculous, but at the same time, it did help to create some genuine discussion. I find the later joins to the bandwagon the most interesting. SSK seemed to hop ship fairly feebly to be honest, if I were to join GD's bandwagon, I would have joined it whole-heartedly to get the most information possible, whether I truly believed in the premise or not.

Tell me, how were the grounds ridiculous? Have you tried playing mafia where no one posts any evidence? It becomes a serious of essentially random votes and random lynches. We can do better than that. We have to discourage is as much as possible. Hence, why I voted GD. When he said, and we should trust what he said, that he would only do it that once I unvoted. However, I unvoted with the clause that if he did it again I would have to vote him. This adds non-official pressure to the votee. The fact that you would have joined it whole heartedly is scumm in and of itself.It was right after RVS where we should not have been gathering information from GD.

When he made his theory without evidence though, it was pretty much still the RVS, and he was just trying to drum up conversation. He succeeded. It is not scummy that I would have joined the wagon whole-heartedly, my point was that if I were to join such a baseless wagon (which I didn't), I would at least try and get something out of it.

I agree that GD can't continue to post theories with no evidence, but I feel quite sure that that was something that was only done because there was very little real evidence to go off at that stage. Still don't fully understand the motives of your unvote.

People who aren't on the MafiaSSK wagon, please explain why. No one except the people on the wagon have talked about it.

This is a sign for a scum awaiting an easy lynch. He thinks because I was gone for a day that he could convince you all that I am scum. So he attempts to basically ridicule anyone who is not on the wagon at the time. This can not be to provoke discussion as discussion is already at a pretty high rate by now. This post is noted until I finish defending myself.

I was not trying to ridicule anyone. In fact, rather the opposite, I was trying to look at your wagon from the side of someone who doesn't believe in it, as you had not yet responded to it.

Now back to Damon_Gant.
His attack on mine was the first and it was terrible. As "SSK seemed to hop ship fairly feebly" was the only reason why he found it scummy and that he would stay on the wagon for a much information as possible. One, he never explained why my hopping of ship was feeble. And 2, just because he would do something makes him think that all town would do that and anyone who wouldn't isn't town. This never even considers the fact of it not being a town motive. Do research if you're going to call it a town tell. Don't just call it a town tell because you did it. Then called it strong enough that he could vote me.
Secondly he seems to be buddying with wolframhart. He automatically agreed with wolf's attack without any reason of his own. He found this to be a strong case he could latch on to. When wolf disappears, Damon then believes it to be possible that he can easily push for a SSK lynch. See

People who aren't on the MafiaSSK wagon, please explain why. No one except the people on the wagon have talked about it.

This is a sign for a scum awaiting an easy lynch. He thinks because I was[ gone for a day that he could convince you all that I am scum. So he attempts to basically ridicule anyone who is not on the wagon at the time. This can not be to provoke discussion as discussion is already at a pretty high rate by now.

Third he is being tunnel-visioned. He has only focused on me this entire game. The only exception to this was his random vote on MME. However from his ISO post 7 he has voted me. As a matter of fact he voted me for voting SAMP for the L2. In where I was attempting to provoke discussion. The very same thing that Damon Gant was portraying but not doing with asking everyone why I hadn't been voted. Even when I defended myself with a "acceptable reason" he never unvoted. Then the GD wagon began and he found more and more fail reasons to vote me.
For all of these reasons, I

Vote Demon_Gant

My original reasoning for the vote on you wasn't very strong I admit. The reason why it may seem like I'm being tunnel-visioned is because the whole game I've found your posts to be iffy, and you've just seemed leaps and bounds more scummy than anyone else in this game to me.

I've tried really hard to describe why you hopping off the ship was feeble, I basically believe that because of the way you only unvoted because it was a singular offense.

I don't see how I'm buddying with Wolf, I believe I've only mentioned him in one post. Am I not allowed to compliment other people's posts when they're right in my opinion.

I'm pleased that you've made this post though, you've given me a bit more to go off on you...but it hasn't helped my read much if I'm honest. You've attacked your strongest attacker, but I'm not going to hold that against you because sometimes that's a valid thing to do. To be honest, like earlier, I just want other opinions because I feel like I'm reading your posts with negative thoughts in my mind to begin with, and it would be best to read them in an unbiased way.

For now, I'm happy to keep my vote on you.

P.S. I'd like to know why there's still wind in the GD wagon, I really am not seeing it. I want to take a further look at the case on easjo and see what I think about that.

P.P.S. SSK, how dare you use subliminal messaging...Demon_Gant!

[Damon_Gant]

The lack of easjo votes depresses me. Don't you guys hate scum?

There are a lot of people in this game making statements like "such-and-such is interesting" or "I noticed blah blah blah". Here's a tip, tell us WHY you think its interesting, maybe I'll agree with you!

Maybe you should follow your own advice

I guess I'm still waiting to see if anyone else notices easjo's hypocrisy or if we have all just decided to forget about it.

I've just read up easjo. His behaviour is definitely anti-town, but I don't really think it's scummy. It would be nice if he were to address his anti-townness though.

[Damon_Gant]

Pleasing to see a post from MME, I was literally just about to call for one. Just so you know, I don't think that your entry to GD's wagon was necessarily scummy in the slightest, it was a wagon that was good for getting information. MafiaSSK hampered its usefulness unfortunately by his unvote, but I've said this a thousand times.

To be fair to zodiark, my first impression SSK's vote on me was OMGUS, but I don't really think that's the case anymore. There were easier targets for SSK to go for on his wagon than me I think. Zodiark for one, joined the wagon with initially, very little to contribute himself, so he would have been an easier target.

[Damon_Gant]

People who aren't on the MafiaSSK wagon, please explain why. No one except the people on the wagon have talked about it.

it could be because the people who aren't on the bandwagon are not convinced of his scumminess. and since this post it puts me off jumping on the bandwagon even more, it makes me think that you're scum looking for people to lynch a townie, besides which I'm happy to...

Unvote

It's obvious people weren't on the bandwagon because they didn't believe in SSK's scumminess. What I wanted to know is

why

they weren't convinced.

What's with the unexplained unvote? It's got nothing to do with anything else in that post.

[Damon_Gant]

the unvote is because, I no longer think that the person my vote was on is scum.

you want to know why we aren't convinced? Its hard to say what the direct reason for that is but for the most part his actions come off more as anti town than scum

Do you have any thoughts at all then on who might be scum?

[Damon_Gant]

Ok, it's less than 6 days until deadline, we really do need to coordinate ourselves here, as well as increase discussion. These are the things that I'd most like to see.

Deathsauce: You really want an easjo lynch. Explain to the rest of us. Telling us to read easjo's posts is not an acceptable way of doing this, explain to us using relevant quotes etc.

Greendude & easjo: You are both lacking real suspicions. I'm not just saying this because you're the only people without a vote on anyone, but also because your posts don't indicate that you suspect anyone either. You must have some sort of suspicions.

Nachomamma: We need your opinions on things ASAP.

SAMP: Are you sticking to your MME vote now that MME has unvoted GD?

Everyone: Activity now leading up to the deadline would be very nice. Also, I'd like to know who people's second suspicions are, because it seems to me like most of us have only really stated one, and we really ought to let our other feelings out there. I'll start, easjo would be my second choice at the moment, for non-committal play, as well as general anti-townness.

I hope I don't seem demanding by this post! I just want to make sure that people aren't struggling to know what to post about.

[Damon_Gant]

I still don't see what motive SSK could have for his GD hop, other than either A) he's town, and that's how he scum hunts, or B) he's scum trying to appear to be scum hunting, and that's how he scum hunts. Which would of course make the hop a null tell. Can everyone on the wagon explain why else he'd want to do it as scum?

There are a number of reasons I can think of. One thought of mine is that he jumped on the wagon because it was an easy thing to do, and putting the L-2 vote on doesn't draw the same attention as say, an L-1 vote, or a hammer, so he wanted to get on the wagon while he still could in a quiet manner. His unvote might have been to make it look like it's being reasonable.

I'm not saying that is the case, I'm just saying that that's what could be the case. The reason why I suspect him is in fact, opposite to what you said, I can't understand his actions from the point of view of a town person.

[Damon_Gant]

EBWOP: might have been to make it look like HE'S being reasonable

I apologise for calling you an "it" MafiaSSK, that was not the intention!

[Damon_Gant]

Deathsauce: You really want an easjo lynch. Explain to the rest of us. Telling us to read easjo's posts is not an acceptable way of doing this, explain to us using relevant quotes etc.
.

Go read easjo's posts. Look for these signs: hypocrisy, wishy-washiness, failure to call others scummy until prompted, weird unvote, overall sense of scumminess.

Just so you know, D_G, I don't do PBPA or big-ass quote-filled posts. I hate them. Ask anyone.

Well I don't see how you can expect people to vote with you then. I don't expect big posts, or PBPA's, I'm rather against those myself. However, just 1 or 2 quotes and a little point in the direction of where we can find the scumminess would go a long way I think (I still may not agree with you, but it'd be nice to see your line of thinking anyway).

I certainly have noticed some of the signs you have mentioned, and indeed, pointed them out already. However, the sign which I don't see is the 'overall sense of scumminess', and that to me, is the most important.

[Damon_Gant]

There are a number of reasons I can think of. One thought of mine is that he jumped on the wagon because it was an easy thing to do, and putting the L-2 vote on doesn't draw the same attention as say, an L-1 vote, or a hammer, so he wanted to get on the wagon while he still could in a quiet manner. His unvote might have been to make it look like it's being reasonable.

Well I see where you're coming from. But the thing is, townies also want to look like they're being reasonable. And I don't see why his alignment would change whether he thinks that's it's reasonable.

Who said that SSK thought his unvote was reasonable. That's the whole crux of the issue for me. He supposedly unvoted because he realised that GD had only commited a singular offense, rather than plural. Did that really and truly change his mind about whether he though GD was scum? I can't imagine why it would. This makes me think there was some ulterior motive for his unvote.

[Damon_Gant]

Who said that SSK thought his unvote was reasonable.

If he didn't think it was reasonable then he wouldn't have done it!

I disagree with this. Why does SSK as scum have to do things that are reasonable. He just wants to do things that look reasonable, such as unvoting someone after a defense. Of course, if you look at it more carefully, you see that his unvote was completely useless and anti-town.

His explanation that he was discouraging anti-town behavior makes the most sense out of everything I've heard so far.

Well it makes absolutely zero sense to me, there was and has been much more anti-town behaviour from the likes of easjo throughout the game. Let's be fair, the reason why he chose to discourage GD, who I don't even think was being anti-town at all, is because there was this juicy wagon that he could add to and maybe get a lynch out of. That's the only way I can see it.

Furthermore, if he was trying to discourage anti-town behaviour, there are plenty of better ways to do it. Keeping the pressure on GD would have taught him a much better lesson. SSK's threat when he came off the wagon was ridiculous, as if GD would actually commit the offense once the game had actually got going. GD only did what he did to get some conversation, that is blatantly obvious.

[Damon_Gant]

So I read the last 4 pages, and pretty much all I got was fuck all of nothing.

A few notes that I made for myself to observe at a later date, and then a whole bunch of bullshit about SSK.


If you guys really want anything from me holler, cause atm I see no reason to change what i'm doing.

Are you serious? You're still voting GD. That's something I feel should be changed. To be honest PEG, you're being incredibly uncooperative, as is easjo. You realise we're very much close to deadline, we need to be doing something.

[Damon_Gant]

I wouldn't mind lynches of Zodiark, or easjoe. MafiaSSK is a lynch I could live with, but I'd rather lynch scum than maybescum.

I would do a MafiaSSK lynch or an easjo lynch. Zodiark is probably my third suspect, and I wouldn't cry over a Zodiark lynch, but neither would I endorse it.

Also, we've all been in Zodiark's bomb shelter awaiting SSK's big post for a fair bit now. You know SSK, if you're too lazy to do a big post, at least give us some content as you're the biggest wagon currently.

PEG, GD, SSK, easjo, Deathsauce, you guys really need to start delivering, because you're combined lurking efforts are bringing the town down I feel.

[Damon_Gant]

Either easjo has the worst memory in the world, or is a liar.

I vote liar.

Just to point out that your last 7 or 8 posts have been incredibly short posts attacking easjo, refusing to give quotes to support your attack, and moaning that we don't all think she's obvscum. I've been accused of tunnel-vison this game, but I reckon that you've been even worse.

I don't need to hear typical excuses like "When I see scum I go after them" etc. You never answered my question about who your second suspicion is, and I think in your case, that's a very good question. Please give an answer.

MagnaofIllusion and wolframnhart have been prodded.

Two more people I forgot to put in my "Need more contribution from" list. That makes over half the players in the game. And most have responded very quickly to their prod, making me think that the reason that people aren't talking is because no one else is talking. We really don't want to get ourselves in that slippery slope with only 2 days until deadline.

[Damon_Gant]

I've just been reading easjo and it seems that he hasn't posted much at all. And not written more than 3 lines.

I think that mafiassk can be perceived in one way to be scummy but if you look at it a different way, there is logical explanations. So I would rather

vote:easyjo

Hmm ... did you bother to look at PEG, wolframhart or any of the others of us with lower activity? Seems like easjo is just a convienant target since others (mostly Deathsauce) have been hitting that drum for awhile.

Yeah, what SAMP said with regards to convenience. There's no point going all out for a lynch that will not happen now. Any attempt to lynch PEG at this point is not likely to have enough steam to result in a lynch in the 2 days.

Easjo also happens to be a new level of suspicious compared to the other lurkers as well, as she is lurking and being very anti-town whenever she does post. If an easjo wagon looks like the only way to get a lynch before deadline then I will join.

[Damon_Gant]

OK, my second most suspicious character is Damon Gant.

Two absolutely contradictory reasons:

1) Leading,

especially the part about informing the town not to listen to me unless I play his way

, but many other instances. (also, repeated references to deadline, trying to build a sense of panic and unreason)

2) Following, statements like "my thoughts exactly".

Seems like he's trying to lead the town and doing so by building mini-alliances by agreeing with others in a creepy way.

(Bold is by me)

You're right in that I'm trying to lead the town. However, my motives are much simpler than what your post is implying. I want discussion, because I want to be able to scumhunt and it's very hard to scumhunt in a game of lurkers. I'm trying to create discussion as best as I can.

Also, it annoys me when people think that agreeing with people is scummy because it's an easy option. Sometimes (quite often in fact), as town, you just genuinely agree with what someone has to say. As town, I don't like to keep secrets, I like everyone to know my exact feelings on everything, and if that means agreeing with people, that's what it means.

As for the bolded bit...you're putting words into my mouth. I did not tell anyone not to listen to you at all. I said something along the lines of "How can you expect us to agree with you", I don't think that constitutes telling other people not to agree, just that I don't think you can expect the town to hop by your side with the way you presented your case.

[Damon_Gant]

Unvote. Vote: easjo

I agree with SIMP that we shouldn't lynch a claimed vig for now, especially with this little time to debate over it.

[Damon_Gant]

It would be nice if easjo would actually say something. I'm hoping that she's just scum who is trying to avoid the lynch by saying nothing.

[Damon_Gant]

Looks like L-2 to me

Well then you ought to look again. It's L-1.

[Damon_Gant]

I AM NOT GETTING PRODDED AGAIN.

fuck ill post shit before I zzzzz

*yawn* Heard it all before. You really do not seem like someone who is playing to town's win condition to me.

[Damon_Gant]

ok, well SSK played a blinder there, avoiding the lynch and drawing a night-kill. Fair play. Just goes to show that there is a right time to lie as town. You've just got to make sure no one finds out you're lying.

Easjo was fail. If we win this game, we've done well to win it with such a poor tracker on our side. But that's the past.

Now, in relation to scumhunting, my main concern for now is PEG, who seems to be being deliberately unhelpful (and has been throughout the game). Then again, easjo was the same, and look where that lynch got us.

Zodiark is being very strange. I've had vibes of both townliness and scumminess off of him. Asking Eek why he's voting him is just ridiculous, I think Eek made it clear yesterday who his main suspect was and why.

[Damon_Gant]

Sorry for my lack of activity in the last couple of days. I've been ill, and not really up to reading and posting logically. That's changed now. I haven't properly read everything but the first thing I notice is the lack of anything from PEG. I find it incredibly frustrating, because after easjo's tracker flip yesterday, we can't really say that it's scummy how little PEG has helped this game. Just incredibly anti-town.

[Damon_Gant]

If your main concern with PEG is the lurking and fluff-posting, VOTE HIM!

Especially

if you're not doing anything else with your vote. Early D2 is a perfectly reasonable time to step up the pressure.

Vote: pickemgenius

Your point is very fair.

[Damon_Gant]

Ok, so my saying that SSK played a blinder is no longer true. Turns out SSK just wasted our one shot vig (assuming that DeathSauce is a one shot vig). Thinking about it, is there actually any possibility of DeathSauce being scum. If there are two night kills tomorrow night, then DeathSauce is in pretty big trouble. If he's mafia, then he surely wouldn't take the risk that the second kill was an SK or an unlimited shots vig, and if he were an SK...well usually SKs can't no kill, but I suppose this avenue is slightly open. But only very slightly.

SAMP pointed out the flaw in the sacrifice theory. So all that being said, DS is certain town in my eyes.

[Damon_Gant]

If there are two night kills tomorrow night, then DeathSauce is in pretty big trouble. If he's mafia, then he surely wouldn't take the risk that the second kill was an SK or an unlimited shots vig

I doubt deathsauce is a vigilante or a SK. But if deathsauce thought a second night kill wouldn't happen since a one shot vigilante already used his ability then it makes sense for him to be mafia.

Now that I think about it, the sacrifice theory is wrong since a one shot vigilante would be pointless to get rid of.

I think you're thinking about this all wrong. Why would scum assume that a possible vig in this game is one-shot. Suppose DS is scum, and we don't have a one-shot vig, rather a regular one. Then he's done for. There's no way he would take this risk as mafia, completely unprovoked too. Also, scum DeathSauce would have to take into account that the second kill could be from an SK as well. Again, this would be disaster for him. There is no reason he'd take the risk of an unprovoked claim when there is clearly no reward.

The only solution to the problem is that he's a vig, for me, based on some Sherlock Holmes philosophy of involving eliminating all of the possibilities and the truth being whatever remains. If DS is scum, trust me, we'll find out very easily and quite soon (i.e. Day 3).

For today, DS is untouchable as far as I'm concerned.

In other news, I wait eagerly for some sort of opinions from PEG. Being as he's had basically no opinions about anything all game.

[Damon_Gant]

In other news, I wait eagerly for some sort of opinions from PEG. Being as he's had basically no opinions about anything all game.

Sorry, I just read this and it sounded like me saying exactly the same thing I've said a million times just tacked on. It was meant to be a reply to the fact that he has promised to post soon.

[Damon_Gant]

@deathsauce: Plz answer my question, what role are you actually?

I have gone through every possiblity and there is no logical explanation for deathsauce to claim vigilante.

Assuming other players think like you is a mistake. You might think it's illogical for an OSV to claim the way DS did,

and you might even be right

, but it's not important. What's important is whether DS thought it was logical to claim the way he did. And it's obvious to me that he did think it was logical.

While this post was made irrelevant by GD's post above, I think this is a seriously important concept in the game of mafia. We'd all do well to remember it. It's even an important concept in real life to be honest!

[Damon_Gant]

Please please please can we have some discussion before we lynch here. I believe what DeathSauce is saying here. This tells us nothing about his role of course. Why is there so much lying going on in this game, it really is not working for us, and its not like we can use the Lynch all Liars strategy because that would have failed us twice already.

The more and more time goes by, the more and more I think that our certain scum is PEG. Maybe this vote is against the direction of the game right now but

Vote: pickemgenius

I've stated my reasons countless times, and I'd like to also add that in any 3 pronged scum team I can imagine, he's a part of it.

[Damon_Gant]

PEG, just to warn you that your next post needs to have some sort of commitment to who you think is scum. You have not made any sort of commitment of this type all game, I'm not sure you've even voted in the last couple of (game) days.

[Damon_Gant]

Assuming 3 scum, I have 3 presents for you.

PROTIP:

Today is probably LyLo.

PROTIP2:

Deathsauce is within quickhammering range.

PROTIP3:

pickemgenius is as well.

Ahahaha, I forgot about this. It would take a lot of coordination for scum to pull off a quickhammer here though, but not worth the risk to leave it as a possibility.

Unvote

PEG shouldn't consider this as me or anyone else taking pressure off him though, my vote is still on him in spirit.

Of course, Deathsauce doesn't have to be within quickhammer range, both of the votes on him could be scum. (PEG was in range, at least, from my point of view)

[Damon_Gant]

I agree with MME's conclusion from SAMP's posts that Zodiark does not have a gun. SAMP's sudden change of attitude towards Zodiark, from being a lynch candidate at the end of 1 day, to "so obvtown it hurts" the next, does it for me.

[Damon_Gant]

Also,

mod;

prod or replace peg. It's been 8 days.

Oh god I hope there's no replacement.

[Damon_Gant]

Also,

mod;

prod or replace peg. It's been 8 days.

Oh god I hope there's no replacement.

Why don't you want peg to be replaced?

Because it will be impossible for a replacement to try and defend his actions, and I need to hear PEG's defense really badly.

[Damon_Gant]

Also,

mod;

prod or replace peg. It's been 8 days.

Oh god I hope there's no replacement.

Why don't you want peg to be replaced?

Because it will be impossible for a replacement to try and defend his actions, and I need to hear PEG's defense really badly.

What defense do you want to hear from PEG? Is there really any excuse he can come up with to save the constant lurking, save for some content/a clear, concise case against someone else? Couldn't a replacement provide that?

I suppose you provide a fair point, but at least we can actually hold him resposible for his actions. I don't know, maybe it's just my anger that he's further handicapping the town when the game's already got bad enough for us as it is. And it's not just PEG's lurking, I don't do lurkervotes, especially on Day 3, but it's his complete lack of contribution when he actually does post. And it's not like we haven't asked him for contribution, or at least commitment on a vote throughout this game. In fact, I've talked myself into it, PEG does have something he can answer to other than lurking. Why has he failed to commit to any sort of vote for nearly the whole game.

If a replacement comes in, it's harder, and if the replacement is a good player, though it could be beneficial for the town, if PEG is town, it could also serve to only further confuse the situation.

I disagree with Zodiark's notion that DS is behind a PEG lynch. I think I've been the main goer on that case, at least for today. I understand that lynches that DS has supported have not gone too well though, but that doesn't have to be his fault. (not that I'm trying to let him off the hook for anything, I'm still very suspicious of DS)

Also, it's lylo, not mylo. There are 7 players left in the game.

[Damon_Gant]

Also, it's lylo, not mylo. There are 7 players left in the game.

Ah, my fail at counting comes at last. Then ignore my statements about this being mylo

Right now I'm seeing a MME-Gant-

peg

scum group, we lynch any one of these three and I'm happy.

Does the bolded part tell you he's behind a peg lynch?

I agree that he would endorse a PEG lynch but I thought when you said he was behind it that you meant he was the key instigator of the lynch, and I definitely don't think that is true.

When he delivers 3 suspects like that, you can hardly rule out all 3 of them just because he said it. If you did that, then you yourself, would know who the whole mafia was.

I would like to know DS's case against me of course.

[Damon_Gant]

I'm not liking DS but my gut is not liking his lynch either. His actions throughout the game seem contrary to the interests of a regular scum.

[Damon_Gant]

I'm not liking DS but my gut is not liking his lynch either. His actions throughout the game seem contrary to the interests of a regular scum.

So he might be an irregular scum? Like a Jester?

I considered that we could be dealing with third party...but we're in a normal game, so I'd have thought the only third party really possible would be SK, and we don't have one of those. I think I need to read DS's posts in isolation, because I'm just a bit confused really.

[Damon_Gant]

The only thing that makes me believe there is no third party is because most normal games that I have played in have a set up usually like:
3 mafia, 1 SK, 8 townies
3 mafia, 1 town vig, 8 townies

I can't think of a time where there was both a town vig and an Sk in a normal game.

On top of this, don't SKs usually not have the option to withhold their nightkill. I know it's possible that there was a successful doctor protection or whatever but it's more likely that there just isn't an SK at all, for this and your reason.

[Damon_Gant]

Sorry for my lack of posting, I haven't had much to say. At the moment I wouldn't be very happy with a lynch on anyone other than PEG. I still think that SAMP investigated Zodiark. That doesn't mean I'm defending PEG, but I suppose I am defending Zodiark. However, I also have felt town emanating from DS...maybe I'm being sold... I feel like scum is 3 of these 4 for these reasons

PEG
MME
wolf
Nacho

My reads on MME, wolf and nacho are all very...neutral, to be honest.

[Damon_Gant]

Alright, so if that's how you feel, why are you just complaining about your neutral read and not making any effort to improve on that?

Peg's... being replaced. What evidence do any of you have against him other than the face that he lurked...? Right now, you're pushing on a lynch on someone who has provided zero content to the game, and has done absolutely nothing to help anyone get a read on him. Are you honestly suggesting that you are willing to risk the game on that?

Lurking isn't evidence for me. It's the manner in which he has lurked that has made me feel like he is certain scum. He could have at least made a post stating one suspect, that really is not hard. It strongly felt like when he actually did post, he was being deliberately unhelpful, and withholding his thoughts from us.

You have definitely made me rethink my attitude on PEG...you're right in saying it's hard to risk the whole game based on the case I have. I promise I have been trying to improve on the neutral reads that I have. I'm just failing in my attempts.

The thing with MME and wolf is that for every thing that there have been some posts that have raised my eyebrows, but some of their posts also make me think town, so obviously something is going wrong there.

And as for you, I've struggled to get any sort of read on you all game, from any of your posts. I just now read your ISO, and I just don't know.

I understand that the right lynch based on solid facts is DS, but my gut is telling me not to go with that.

[Damon_Gant]

1. What is your position on the DS lynch?
2. Will the replacements position have an effect on yours? If so, why? If not, why not?

1. Stated

2. I fully expect the replacement to try and craplogic their way out of trouble, but if I feel like they're not doing that, then maybe it will. (for a start, maybe it will make me think differently about my position on

them

)

[Damon_Gant]

Inventor claim sounds good for me. I don't necessarily believe that it will help us, but it may, and it should in no way hinder us.

[Damon_Gant]

ToD, you analysed the DS's idea that PEG was investigated by SAMP (to defend yourself, I understand). But how about SAMP's sudden change of heart on Zodiark, someone that you suspect. Are you saying that SAMP investigated neither?

I'm unconviced by this first post by ToD...there's just nothing new in it.

[Damon_Gant]

ok, well I was going to say VLA until tomorrow and leave it at that, but due to the discussions that are going on at the moment, I'll quickly say my bit. Inventor should 100% claim right now. If they don't, then DS should be lynched undoubtedly. The fact that it's taken the inventor so long to claim has already made me very suspicious to be honest. I'll be around at deadline just in case, but I should imagine this day will be wrapped up by then.

Now VLA until tomorrow.

[Damon_Gant]

Ok, I could do one of two things:

a) I could be a good sport and congratulate the scum
b) I could be a sore loser and blame my teammates and just general bad luck

...both please! Scum played a good game, they detected that SAMP was an investigative role for example, that was a good nightkill for them (and probably the final nail in town's coffin).

I can't place much blame on teammates in fairness, but easjo and PEG were obviously letdowns. SSK should have taken the lynch also, I mean...yes, great idea, we'll keep alive the townie and sacrifice the tracker...

I also blame myself in part, I gave scum a chance to win on Day 3 which thankfully Nacho pointed out...I tunneled really badly on a player who in reality had not really contributed much. I think it was a mixture of anger and a lack of read on other players. I also tunneled on SSK during the early parts of the game, and took part in the easjo lynch. So my scumdar was waaaaaay off. The only thing I maybe did somewhat right was keep myself away from suspicion (This is the first completed game I've played where I haven't been lynched).