Mini 937 - Mafia on Death Row OVER

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/kumquat

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If he is, I hope he's not hungry for muskrats.

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Vote: Zodiark13

Convince me we should lynch someone besides you.

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You could hold me at gunpoint.

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Convince me we should lynch someone besides you.

I am an Esper. What other reason do you need?

If you're an esper then what number am I thinking of?

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the history tab

Unvote, Vote: pickemgenius

L-2!

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Geeze, there really hasn't been much content filled posts has there guys, lets kick off a conversation, where in the world is everyone from?

The town

Unvote, vote SAMP

Put PEG at L2 with little to no good reasoning.

I don't need a good reason to put someone at L-2.

I like theories, and I think GreenDude's is pretty well thought out.

Should we also have the fight in this game about whether L-2 is scummy or not? It's been done to death and it bores me, but I don't want to fight tradition.

I've never fought that fight, and more importantly I've never WON that fight. Bring it on!

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Pickemgenenius has been annoying in the sense that he's been posting shit

Pot: O Kettle, Kettle, wherefore art thou Black?

My theory was just a random thought. I tend to post many of my thoughts. Can't hurt.

Theory that isn't just a random thought: you are scum

If you're feeling particularly wordy, you can unvote twice before revoting for all I care

How about 32 times?

Unvote, Unvote, Unvote, Unvote, Unvote, Unvote, Unvote, Unvote, Unvote, Unvote, Unvote, Unvote, Unvote, Unvote, Unvote, Unvote, Unvote, Unvote, Unvote, Unvote, Unvote, Unvote, Unvote, Unvote, Unvote, Unvote, Unvote, Unvote, Unvote, Unvote, Unvote, Unvote,
Vote: GreenDude

I hereby mandate a minimum of 33 unvotes before revoting! (No, not really)

-DRK

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I was refering to his constant one line replys to things that aren't stimulating game conversation at all, and those that reply to him with equal one line responces

And I correctly pointed out that you were no better than he is in that regard.

---

At SSK - Why did you vote so quickly for SAMP when he only put Pickem at L-4 not L-2? Do you usually not check statements like that for accuracy before posting a vote?

Do

you

usually not check statements like that for accuracy?

pickemgenius (5) [MagnaofIllusion, MafiaSSK, DeathSauce, Greendude, Super Awesome Mega Pimp!]

(snip)

With 12 alive, it takes 7 to lynch.

---

Sorry, I am being a bit jokey, trying to get GreenDude to post a reason why his theory might have any basis in reality. It probably doesn't, because he called it a "Random Theory".

Probably doesn't have any basis in reality!? What are the chances that it does?

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Time for an important public service announcement on why you, yes YOU, should be voting for GreenDude:

Why did pickemgenius want to edit Deathsauce's wiki?

Random Theory: Deathsauce and pickemgenius are both scum and are trying to
distance themselves.

My theory was just a random thought. I tend to post many of my thoughts. Can't hurt.

In other words he's going to throw out garbage theories in the guise of "random thoughts", allowing him to test the waters for a possible lynch before gunning for it.

Note that he throws out the theory without either A) providing any evidence or B) prodding DS and/or PEG for more information to confirm or deny it. He has no pro-town purpose in throwing it out there. He just throws it out there, exactly like a townie wouldn't.

And when MME wonders if he's serious or not, rather than give a straight yes or no answer, he says it was "just a random thought". Lame excuse for a lame theory.

Lynch GreenDude to win. (But don't pinch him, he's green! )

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Happy St.Patrick's day! My favorite day of the year.(actually not)

In other words he's going to throw out garbage theories in the guise of "random thoughts", allowing him to test the waters for a possible lynch before gunning for it.

That is one way of seeing random thoughts. But there is no way that someone would be lynched because of such stupid little things. So there's no reason to "test the waters" for something that won't happen.

Like hell there isn't. It's not possible to predict whether someone will be lynched over any given tell because you have no idea how the other players will react, or even how the attacked player will react. So yes there's a reason to test the waters.

Note that he throws out the theory without either A) providing any evidence or B) prodding DS and/or PEG for more information to confirm or deny it. He has no pro-town purpose in throwing it out there. He just throws it out there, exactly like a townie wouldn't.

I was wrong to call it a theory because it was just an idea. But a theory is like an possible explanation to something. Which it was.

A) Why should evidence be provided if it isn't not supposed to cause a lynch or start a bandwagon but simply create discussion (ironic isn't it?)

Because if you just spout garbage with no evidence then nobody will take your attempt to create discussion seriously.

B) Why "prod" if the point is not to lynch or bandwagon but to create discussion.

Because, DUH, that's what it does! Apart from DS and MME I don't believe anyone else was commenting on it at all, so if the point was to create discussion then why in the world wouldn't you be prodding responses out of people?

And when MME wonders if he's serious or not, rather than give a straight yes or no answer, he says it was "just a random thought". Lame excuse for a lame theory.

Since you didn't understand what I meant by "just a random thought" I'll translate: IT WAS NOT SERIOUS.

Yes, lame theory. At least if it was a theory.


How will lynching me win the game?

Because you're scummier than anyone else.

Ok, starting a wagon because you don't like the way that GD tries to provoke discussion? Thats just fishy.

So what, just because he says it was an attempt to provoke discussion, he's above suspicion? Yeah, uhhhh....

NO.

I understand that we are now 11 days away from the deadline, and with little to go on, but a wagon like that could possibly halt discussion.

Double you tee eff. When in the world has a wagon

ever

halted discussion?

Also, such a weak wagon would have no doubt attracted scummy attention, because the could just agree with SAMP's points. In other words, at least one of the people on that wagon are scum.

That only works if GD is town.

Giant FoS

for assuming that.

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I never said he was above suspicion, I said I suspected you.

So if he isn't above suspicion then why in the world is it suspicious that I suspect him?

Any old wagon, never. A wagon on someone for trying to start discussion, very possibly. And, read,

POSSIBLY

. I never said it did, I said it could.

And I called your bluff and asked you to provide evidence that this was indeed possible.

Because it isn't.

If there's a discussion going on then it's not going to stop just because one of the participants got wagoned, in fact wagons actually encourage the wagonee to post more.

I also note that before I attacked GD for his "theory" nobody was actually discussing it any more than giving it an offhand mention. I can't kill a discussion that never happened in the first place!

That only works if GD is town

, or if the scum aren't targeting each other.

Fixed.

If scum aren't targeting each other and GD is scum, then there can't be any scum on the GD wagon. Therefore it still only works if he's town.

Here's your

Giant FoS

back, for assuming that I am assuming that green is town. I never said he was town.

Fair enough. Instead,

Giant FoS

for assuming scum aren't targeting each other.

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I never said it would stop the 'wagonee' from posting. What I meant was it might deter other players from posting for fear of an attack like the one you are giving me for posting content.

A) I'm not attacking anyone "for posting content". I'm attacking them for being scummy when they just so happen to be posting content.
B) Again, no, that won't happen. Ever. Please, prove me wrong, post any evidence at all that any wagon has ever killed the discussion. It simply does not happen.

You sure made certain there was none after his attempt to create some.

What thread are you reading? Not only did I discuss it with GD myself but I got a little more out of MME, PEG, and SSK, and oh look,

we're discussing it right now

. None of which would have happened if I hadn't made that post.

That only works if GD is town

, or if the scum are targeting each other.

Now fixed with extra Correctness™.

Here's your

Giant FoS

back, for assuming that I am assuming that green is town. I never said he was town.

Fair enough. Instead,

Giant FoS

for assuming scum aren't targeting each other.

Have your

Giant FoS

back. One, this is based on a mistake on my part due to confusion of false positves and such. Two, you are making way too many assumptions yourself. Three, it's really heavy, and smells like pimp.

v:|v Then fos for assuming that scum

are

targeting each other. What reason do you have to believe that?

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Now my theory here is that Super Awesome Mega Pimp posted his “important public service announcement” because he knew that MME and PEG would hop onto the bandwagon.

What the christ. How in the world would I have known that? I can't read their minds!

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No you didn't.

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What I'm saying is that based on the circum stances, it looked that a few people were very likely to vote me because they wanted to but there was no opportunity. And if I can see that, then why can't anyone else.

Ah I see what you were saying now.

But no I didn't predict the wagon. I did think there was a decent chance that MME would join me, but I didn't predict PEG or DS to. PEG didn't seem particularly interested in you before my post, and DS noticed your theory but he looked content to question it without voting you.

In any event I don't see why you think it's scummy to try to get a wagon going. What was I supposed to do, vote and demand nobody else join me?

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I think GD's reaction to my attack, and to my defense of his counter-attack, is honest.

Unvote

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I don't think early vote hopping is a scumtell, and I don't think his reasons for hopping either onto me or GD are scummy.

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I don't think early vote hopping is a scumtell, and I don't think his reasons for hopping either onto me or GD are scummy.

By itself the hopping onto GD wasn't that scummy, but combined with his odd unvoting shortly thereafter, that is the issue I have with SSK right now.

Regardless of SSK's alignment, I don't see what motive the unvote could have other than the one he says it does. Between his GD vote at 160 and the unvote at 167 were these posts:

161, 162, 163: GD's defense
164, 165: mod vote count and prod notice
166: Magna unvoting his RVS vote and promising more content

GD's defense is the only logical basis SSK would have for unvoting.

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The lack of easjo votes depresses me. Don't you guys hate scum?

There are a lot of people in this game making statements like "such-and-such is interesting" or "I noticed blah blah blah". Here's a tip, tell us WHY you think its interesting, maybe I'll agree with you!

Maybe you should follow your own advice

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P.S. I'd like to know why there's still wind in the GD wagon, I really am not seeing it.

None of the people still voting him (BBP, MME, PEG) have posted anything meaningful in the past few days. BBP is getting replaced but I would like to know what the other two think now.

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I guess I'm still waiting to see if anyone else notices easjo's hypocrisy or if we have all just decided to forget about it.

Apparently the latter. Why not post a case?

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I still don't see what motive SSK could have for his GD hop, other than either A) he's town, and that's how he scum hunts, or B) he's scum trying to appear to be scum hunting, and that's how he scum hunts. Which would of course make the hop a null tell. Can everyone on the wagon explain why else he'd want to do it as scum?

Vote: My Milked Eek

for silently leaving his vote on GD in that last post.

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SAMP: Are you sticking to your MME vote now that MME has unvoted GD?

Yes. He still hasn't given any update on his thoughts on GD, which is hypocritical given that he's attacking SSK for making an easy jump off that wagon. And, he clearly saw post 246 (since he quoted my vote) but chose not to answer the question I asked to everyone on the SSK wagon.

Speaking of which, I'd still like everyone on the SSK wagon to answer.

I still don't see what motive SSK could have for his GD hop, other than either A) he's town, and that's how he scum hunts, or B) he's scum trying to appear to be scum hunting, and that's how he scum hunts. Which would of course make the hop a null tell. Can everyone on the wagon explain why else he'd want to do it as scum?

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@SAMP,

I still don't see what motive SSK could have for his GD hop, other than either A) he's town, and that's how he scum hunts, or B) he's scum trying to appear to be scum hunting, and that's how he scum hunts. Which would of course make the hop a null tell. Can everyone on the wagon explain why else he'd want to do it as scum?

This relies heavily on your knowledge of how SSK plays as both town and scum, so I dismissed this opinion myself. Even if you have played other games with SSK, what makes you think he's playing differently?[/rhetorical]

I don't believe it relies on meta knowledge of SSK (of which I have none). What it relies on is the general knowledge that most players, as scum, don't take in-thread actions that are

overtly

different than the ones they take as town, since they'd be obvious if they did. Which is why I'm skeptical that his quick GD hop is a scumtell.

Now if someone has meta knowledge to the contrary, that'd certainly change my opinion, but I assume the above by default.

(And before anyone takes that out of context and acts like I'm claiming that there are no scumtells, I'm not. The keyword is "overtly". Scum do leave tells behind, just not consciously.)

SAMP: Are you sticking to your MME vote now that MME has unvoted GD?

Yes. He still hasn't given any update on his thoughts on GD, which is hypocritical given that he's attacking SSK for making an easy jump off that wagon. And, he clearly saw post 246 (since he quoted my vote) but chose not to answer the question I asked to everyone on the SSK wagon.

I stated reasons on several occasions. I do not see it necessary to state your reasons every time you vote.

And the main reason I jumped to Zodiark is because in my opinion because of his interactions with mafiassk he is the one of the two who must be scum, while mafiassk is independently of zodiark scummy. As I said, zodiark appears to be bussing or pushing an easy lynch, in both cases making him scum pushing a lynch, be it a mislynch or not.

No no no, I'm talking specifically about your unvote of GD. You got on the GD wagon, didn't post for a few days, then when you showed up you didn't say a word about him or his actions during your off-time. That tells me you weren't really interested in determining his alignment.

There are a number of reasons I can think of. One thought of mine is that he jumped on the wagon because it was an easy thing to do, and putting the L-2 vote on doesn't draw the same attention as say, an L-1 vote, or a hammer, so he wanted to get on the wagon while he still could in a quiet manner. His unvote might have been to make it look like it's being reasonable.

Well I see where you're coming from. But the thing is, townies also want to look like they're being reasonable. And I don't see why his alignment would change whether he thinks that's it's reasonable.

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Who said that SSK thought his unvote was reasonable.

If he didn't think it was reasonable then he wouldn't have done it!

reason I can see scumSSK doing the unvote is for a few reasons:
1)Buddying attempt
2)Leaving an easy way to jump back onto a GD wagon with his implication he would vote that way again if GD continued to post theories.
3)WIFOM/Meta, I have only played one game with MafiaSSK (that I recall) but maybe he could say "Have i done that as town in such and such game?"

I don't see a real town reason for the way he voted and unvoted.

1) I don't see anything in the unvote that looked like he was trying to make buddies with GD.
2) That's not really an easy way to jump back on, since it would require GD to be uncooperative towards a demand backed by the threat of lynch.
As for number 3, I don't even understand what you're getting at. Could you explain please?

His explanation that he was discouraging anti-town behavior makes the most sense out of everything I've heard so far.

Super Awesome Mega Pimp! gains scumpoints for assigning reason to a vote with no explanation.

When did I do that?

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Right after my first post. I posted a vote with any explanation, you joined onto that vote with your own explanation.

And how the hell is that scummy?

I don't think an Eek lynch is happening so I'll go with easjo, who, apart from voting PEG for not contributing, hasn't done anything at all today. I don't care for either an SSK or Zodiark lynch since neither has reacted like scum to the cases against them.

Unvote
Vote: easjo

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I've just been reading easjo and it seems that he hasn't posted much at all. And not written more than 3 lines.

I think that mafiassk can be perceived in one way to be scummy but if you look at it a different way, there is logical explanations. So I would rather

vote:easyjo

Hmm ... did you bother to look at PEG, wolframhart or any of the others of us with lower activity? Seems like easjo is just a convienant target since others (mostly Deathsauce) have been hitting that drum for awhile.

I know you're asking GD not me, but I feel compelled to give my answer as well.

First of all, there's a difference between lower activity and lurking. The former is what happens when that annoying world full of oxygen impedes our imperative duty to post and has little bearing on one's alignment, the latter is a scummy strategy wherein dodging suspicion takes precedence over other goals. The important difference is that a player who simply posts infrequently is nevertheless capable of giving off tells, while a lurker minimizes that risk. SSK and wolf are the former, easjo and PEG are the latter. On that note, if there was a wagon on PEG I'd lynch him over easjo.

Secondly, yes she's convenient, but now's not exactly the best time to go after inconvenient targets. We got three days to decide on a lynch, so if you're gonna lead the charge on someone right now, you better have a hell of a case backing you up. Unless of course you're trying to be useless by keeping your vote on a player who clearly won't be lynched. Isn't that right PEG?

Thirdly, when you say "others (mostly Deathsauce)", who exactly are the

other

others?

[Super Awesome Mega Zord!]

^one-shot vigilante

We ain't lynching a claimed vig D1. Zodiark or easjo it is. (If I were you Zodiark, I would go with easjo. )

[Super Awesome Mega Zord!]

Then why are you voting easjo?

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Vote: pickemgenius

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Vote: pickemgenius

This is a vote with sound reasoning and logic.

mhm

I could say the same thing about all of your posts.

---

...and people are still suspicious of Zodiark? He's so obvtown it hurts. Look at 340 again.

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I didn't say it was great logic, I said his motive for posting it was pro-town.

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Ok, here it is.

The fact that we have two NK's suggests one of three things;

1)We have a second mafia,
2)We have a SK,
3)We have an actual vig,

1 doesnt' seem likely due to the game size, so 2 or 3 must apply. That leaves us with four possiblities;

1) Mafia killed SSK, SK killed Magna
2) Mafia killed Magna, SK killed SSK
3) Mafia killed SSK, vig killed Magna
4) Mafia killed Magna, vig killed SSK

Usually, accurate flavor depicts SKs as heavy knife users, hence the reason I asked, as it would eliminate SKs as a possibility. However, if, flavor wise, if either would have used a gun, then theres not way to tell the difference on those grounds.

Even without flavor support, I'd still bet a lot on option 4. Magna makes little sense as a vig-kill, and SSK makes a ton.

---

Hey everyone: PEG is still scum for leaving his vote off the wagons at deadline. He didn't give his opinions on any of the major wagons, and he wasn't even pushing for a GD wagon. He was just trying to hide from scrutiny, with a worthless vote on a non-wagon. WE ARE LYNCHING PEG TODAY GOT IT? GOOD.

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Question @ Zodiark & SAMP: What protown motivation does your nightkill have?

I don't understand what you're asking

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If your main concern with PEG is the lurking and fluff-posting, VOTE HIM!

Especially

if you're not doing anything else with your vote. Early D2 is a perfectly reasonable time to step up the pressure.

But seriously the fact that he saw a bunch of deadline wagons, and didn't get on any of them or even comment on any of them, and didn't even try to turn his vote on GD into a wagon, is a

dead giveaway

that he cares more about self-preservation than lynching scum.

I think I understand what Nacho is asking, and I can answer it and put an end to all this speculation.

I'm the real one-shot vig, and I NK'ed SSK because I assumed he was lying scum.

I think anyone would have made the same decision based on his fakeclaim. I've never played had this role before and was going to wait it out , but SSK made it an easy (although it turned out to be wrong) decision.

Well shoot, I was certain Zodiark was the vig.

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I think that deathsauce sounded really fake when he suddenly says, "Oh, btw, it really stupid of me to say this but I'm the vigilante."

Nice misrep:

I know it's a risk, but

I don't think it's stupid

(or suspicious, obv). It was looking like we were going to skip analysis of the nightkill so I wasn't going to claim unless that happened.

Also, DS is town. Unnecessary claiming = huge town tell.

There's also a good chance of a vig not existing; otherwise, they would've countered Mafia SSK yesterday, or Deathsauce today.

No they wouldn't have. They're vigs. They have these marvelous inventions called "guns". Since you've apparently never heard of one before, they're what vigs use to "kill" the fakeclaims at night without giving away their role in a counterclaim.

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I think that deathsauce sounded really fake when he suddenly says, "Oh, btw, it really stupid of me to say this but I'm the vigilante."

Nice misrep:

I know it's a risk, but

I don't think it's stupid

(or suspicious, obv). It was looking like we were going to skip analysis of the nightkill so I wasn't going to claim unless that happened.

Also, DS is town. Unnecessary claiming = huge town tell.

There's also a good chance of a vig not existing; otherwise, they would've countered Mafia SSK yesterday, or Deathsauce today.

No they wouldn't have. They're vigs. They have these marvelous inventions called "guns". Since you've apparently never heard of one before, they're what vigs use to "kill" the fakeclaims at night without giving away their role in a counterclaim.

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Scum don't do "sacrifice tactics". Not unless the sacrificed scum is already getting lynched anyways, and DS wasn't. There is no power role worth trading the life of an unsuspected scum for. Trust me, DS is town.

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@deathsauce: Plz answer my question, what role are you actually?

I have gone through every possiblity and there is no logical explanation for deathsauce to claim vigilante.

Assuming other players think like you is a mistake. You might think it's illogical for an OSV to claim the way DS did,

and you might even be right

, but it's not important. What's important is whether DS thought it was logical to claim the way he did. And it's obvious to me that he did think it was logical.

[Super Awesome Mega Zord!]

EBWOP: didn't see that post above mine.

[Super Awesome Mega Zord!]

Bolding for emphasis:

DeathSauce it is time for you to claim again. Because your one shot vigilante claim is no longer possible unless there are 2 osv's in this game.

The only reason

I know deathsauce is lying about being a one shot vigilante

, is because I'm the one shot vigilante.

And deathsauce, you were completely wrong. I killed magnaofillusion during the night because

I knew the mafia would want to kill mafiassk

.

Nice try on the fakeclaim, but if you really thought DS was lying because of his vig claim, you'd have thought the same thing about SSK.

Unvote, vote: GreenDude

[Super Awesome Mega Zord!]

If only I read through what I post. I lied, I killed mafiassk not magna. I lied because I knew that the mafia would know I was lying, so they might trip up.

How did you expect them to trip up?

Also why did you say you thought DS was a vig in 433?

[Super Awesome Mega Zord!]

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Well played scum. For the record I actually investigated nacho and found no gun. I guess I hid my breadcrumb a little too well.

[Super Awesome Mega Zord!]

Yeah, that was it.