Mini 935 -- The Fountainhead (Completed)

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

Grapes

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

It took me way too long to figure out that Zang's "There just random voted" meant "They're just random votes". Big old English fail from Zang there in multiple ways.

Zang's primary argument seems to be, "but other people random votes as well why am I the one being picked on". The problem I have with the wagon is that Zang has repeatedly failed to grasp why he's being picked on (and the reason was plenty good for an opening bandwagon). The fact that he continues to not get it suggests to me that his reaction isn't of overly defensive scum, but a sad sack who simply doesn't get it.

Vote: AlamasterGM

I like Budja's catch that AGM out and out called Zang a liar, but that wasn't good enough reason to vote for him. My suspicion is furthered by how quickly AGM acquiesces to then vote Zang after Budja votes for him.

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

Elbow Drop DDD

Moonsault Double Stomp: Porkens

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

I like Budja's catch that AGM out and out called Zang a liar, but that

it

wasn't good enough reason

for AGM

to vote for him

[Zang]

. My suspicion is furthered by how quickly AGM acquiesces to then vote Zang after Budja votes for him.

Why isn't that a good-enough reason?
What is the problem with Almaster's vote? It was a slight point in his favour IMO.

A) Does the sentence make more sense now?
B) He's pandering to someone pressuring him, it doesn't feel like he's voting because he thinks it's the right thing to do (or he would've done it before) but instead because he wants to appease the person voting him.

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

What happened to my AGM bandwagon? It was going so well and then someone let all the air out of it.

~~~

@DDDP- You don't like the Zang wagon, how do you feel about the horror wagon?

It's a much better wagon; I don't buy that his vote was "random" as he's tried to suggest as he provided a perfectly reasonable explanation for his vote. And then he simply unvotes with no explanations for the past or future; he doesn't explain why he unvoted and/or what he hopes to achieve with his now free vote other than the generically lame, "I'll see if I can find someone that's suspicious IMO".

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

I read you explanation. I didn't like it.

With 12 alive it takes 7 to lynch.

If you think he is town and is suspectible to a L-2 quick lynch (yeah I wish scum would suicide themselves like that on D1), why are you voting him at all regardless of what votes he is at?

The only, "he has too many votes on him, otherwise I would vote him" argument I would accept is if he would be hammered by your vote. L-1 is up for debate, I agree that no one has done anything to warrant L-1 yet, but L-2? No reason you can't put him there if he's your suspect.

It's page 5, day 1. There's no way I'm not going to have doubts about my vote - I'm happy and willing to concede that AGM, despite being the scummiest player in the game (imo, of course) at this point is quite possibly town. With that in mind, I'm not going to ramp up the votes this early, with so little information out there.

Would scum suicide like that on day 1? Probably not, but why take the risk of losing important town assets this early on?

But for town to lose those assets, scum would have to suicide. And I really can't think of a single town asset that I wouldn't trade for two scum; hell I don't think there's more than one or two roles than I wouldn't trade for a single scum. Explanation simply doesn't fly.

Unvote; Vote: cruelty

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

Vote: Horror

said he'd be back tomorrow.

Does this strike anyone else as bizzare?

He did basically say he left the Horror wagons solely because of V/LA and was using the time to explore other avenues.

The awkward thing is how he announces it; personally I think if you're going to do something, just do it, no need to disclaimer everything twelve ways to Sunday, but it still feels more like a legitimate playstyle difference to me than for example cruelty's recent failure of an argument and calling that a playstyle difference.

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

He did basically say he left the Horror wagons solely because of V/LA and was using the time to explore other avenues.

So the correct actions is to Vote him before he gets back from that V/LA? How is horror any more able to defend himself against this Vote than he was when he started on V/LA?

Is there really a functional difference between re-voting horror with no new content a day before he comes back and after he comes back? I could see your argument if he had provided new reasons that it could be considered unsporting to do that while horror was gone, but I don't really see any practical difference if he was merely resuming his position on the wagon.

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

I'd say that if you're going to leave a wagon due to the target's inability to defend himself, it wouldn't make any sense to resume your position on said wagon until he

gets

that chance. Frankly, I question the motives of anyone who does.

But at the same time you don't want to take pressure off him simply he went on V/LA; and if you encourage behavior that allows that to happen then you've created a perverse system where people can damp suspicion on themselves by going on V/LA.

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

Unvote; Vote: Horror

He's posting in other games but not this one.

Unvote; Vote: Horror

Well that seals it for me.

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

The only reason I'm not voting DS right now is because I think DDD has the right, given that his vote is on this wagon, to make a post here.

Post.

...

Seriously, we've got an extremely scummy player, who replaces out of just this one game, his replacement claims miller, and almost seems amused (to my reading) at the WIFOM he put in front of the town. He probably should've been lynched about two pages ago as I see nothing useful since then. I mean we get Zang proving that he is in fact a VI, SpyreX still braying for blood, kthx and Fate wanting to prolong this day for who knows what reason and plenty of waffling from AGM, cruelty and you about whether they want to be the hammer or not. I'm with SpyreX and Porkens in regards to the length of days and this one is already over its expiration date.

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

DDD: Once d3x posts, I will return my vote to hammer DS (unless someone beats me to it which is fine).

Look, the reason I wanted everyone to post something before the hammer falls is freaking simple (surprised you don't get it). This is a TEXT based game. The more people post, the better the odds are that scum will slip something. Even if there are no slips in the past 2 pages, it's a recorded history of what people have posted. The more scum are forced to post, the better the chance they contradict themselves later. Elementary dear Danny.

When there are too many posts it becomes much harder to pull the signal from the noise, the wheat from the chaff and it becomes that much harder to put together a compelling narrative because over a longer timeline everyone will do things that look scummy and things that look town. Elementary old bean.

Content for contents sake is meaningless.

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

Complete bullshit, I wonder if I'm about to get screwed by another insane cop or if AGM is just extremely ballsy scum.

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

Insane Cop (assuming Almaster is even a Cop and not some other investigative role) + Miller = :\

I don't know, Miller could have been there as a way for the Insane Cop to find that their insanity was screwy, I'm not trying to outguess the mod merely presenting the possible theories that explain what just happened and cop of some sort is the only theory that makes sense.

~~~

AGM: Full claim now.

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

What do you mean "another" DDD? Linkz, plz.

Second String Muppets Mafia

Day two rolls around (page 17/18); a cop claimed on me and got me lynched. Then I flipped town and he was NKed and was indeed a cop, but in post-game when the role PMs were posted what a surprise, he wasn't sane.

~~~

AGM: Full claim now.

And I would do this why?

So you have to actually stand behind something; instead of this nebulous bullshit you've put together. So when I get lynched and flip town you can't then tomorrow claim "sorry guys, VT here just seeing who would wagon him and it got away from me". And so I know which lie or delusion I actually need to counter and so the town can evaluate what you're saying and we can find the

truth

of the matter as to not put those town into a huge hole tomorrow.

~~~

And of course Zang and the rest of you idiots just blindly follow him. What an innane attitude to have and it's completely counter-productive, do you people have no innate skepticism?

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

P.S. WHY did you jerks kill me n1?

Because the gods of irony dictated it to be so.

It turns out I was rather prescient in regards to claims with d3x getting lynched due to the scum team's lack of knowledge; I figured out the jig after my death but obviously I couldn't communicate that to my partner.

Sure, right now I'm thinking we were all assigned flavor to our roles but not revealed it. So a claim of roleblocker would've been valid and consistent with everyone else (though still lynched since it's typically a scum role); while a claim of Dominique Francon - prostitute would have claimed flavor that no one else had.

When I went into the QT the last night and saw Porkens was submitting a kill I basically wrote the game off because I really didn't like the options there. Luckily Porkens changed his mind, no killed and let the town end itself.

~~~

Good game, average modding (when half the players in the game end up on your "graylist" maybe you need to re-think your ruleset), wish I had gotten to play more of it.