Open 209: The Invasion of Liten (Game Over)

[Nikanor]

YESSSS FIRST POST!

[Nikanor]

Two

three questions about the flavour, mod:
a) Why are the Arkons not named after their home planet?

Because Vasten is not the Arkon home planet.

b) Are the Arkons made by fusing together two Templars?

No, but nice guess.

c) Why does Governor Sarah St. Kerrigan have two titles in her name, and why is one in the middle of her name?!

Because St. Kerrigan is her last name. Governor is her title.

Oh, btw.

I'M A COP!

Just thought I'd put that out there.

[Nikanor]

Omg ninja'd by like, 50 people.

Vote Nicodemus for being my friend. Only someone crazy would befriend me.

Aren't WE friends? I made you a COP, man! A COP! That's like, the most overpowered normal role in the game!

Vote Slaxx Admitting that you have a scum buddy is never a good thing!

I see no such thing. Stop making things up.

Remind me to nominate SaintKerrigan for best flavor when the game's over.

I'm sure our mod will remember to remind you.

Why did you not random-vote?

I REALLY wanted the first post.

[Nikanor]

And now you're fake-claiming. And you still haven't voted. Awesome sauce.

LOL.
Guys, crypto is scum.

Hai SFG! Ilu too! <3
Care to bandwagon crytposcum avec moi? We're both cops, so we should work together. FOR GREAT JUSTICE!

Vote: crypto.

[Nikanor]

1. Do you prefer town or scum?
2. Is lurking a scum tell?
3. Do you prefer town hunting or scum hunting?
4. How active do you normally consider yourself, in-game?
5. Policy lynches—good or bad?
6. Lynch All Liars—good or bad?
7. Is it scummy to vote without immediately giving the reason?
8. Is it bad to out your town reads?

1. Town.
2. Yes.
3. Scum hunting.
4. Semi-active. I go through dry spots of lurking at times.
5. Good, so long as we're lynching lurkers or people who follow policy lynches other than those covered under my answer to your question.
6. Terribad. People who think Lynch All Liars is a good idea should be shot.
7. Yes.
8. No.

On a side note, you're still scum. Haylen, why didn't you vote for crypto?

[Nikanor]

Lurking's a scum tell, but you "go through dry spots of lurking at times"?

Consistent lurking. i.e. The guy who pops his head in every once in a while just to defend himself will be scum 99% of the time.

High five.

^5!

Why is #7 scummy?

Bussing, mostly. As always, looking for motivation will trump catch-all scumtells, though.

[Nikanor]

Unvote. Vote: Haylen.

Sorry crypto, it seems I was wrong! Haylen is the one that should be lynched today, not you.

[Nikanor]

Oh, also, I figure that I should say Pulindar is probably town.

[Nikanor]

So why don't you jump on the Haylen wagon, Slaxx?

I must agree with you here. Go for it.

Defeatism won't save you, scum.

horrordude, why did you not respond to what I said about you?

[Nikanor]

I'm going to work now. If there are more than five pages for me to read when I get back, you're all DEAD!

[Nikanor]

Vote Nikanor because she's trying to buddy up with me by saying I'm town

I'm not buddying! You're the one who said that sharing town reads is a good idea, remember?
If you'd like a reason for why I think you're town, it is because your answers to crypto's questions strike me as those from someone who is interested in being as open and honest as possible i.e. a townie.

NOW I'm off to work. Be back in ~9 hours.

[Nikanor]

Note to self: SPS confirmed twenty minutes ago but still hasn't posted.

[Nikanor]

Okay, NOW I'm gone. For real this time.

[Nikanor]

Nika was a bit defensive, but I loved her answers so not seeming scummy yet.

What do you mean, defensive?! I'm not defensive, you are! GET OFF MY BACK!!
Just kidding.
In all seriousness though, what about my posts did/do you find defensive?

Nicodemus went after me for "throwing Flak at random players" I like that. I like that he paid attention, and that he wasn't afraid to bring it up.

I don't like it. If I had caught that, I would have just passed it off as humour. Nicodemus is trying to make it look scummy when it is not. The way I see it, he's just trying to throw dirt on you. And that is scummy because Townies shouldn't be trying to look for things that can be interpreted as scummy, they should be trying to look for things that are scummy. Nico stretched that statement pretty far in an attempt to make you look scummy, and I don't like it. If Nico had voted for you in that post he would be soooo dead right now.

@Alduskkel: I expect higher things from you than what you've given. More content, please.

I still like my Haylen vote. It's going to stick there until Haylen actually does something other than try to get herself lynched.

[Nikanor]

SFG has just told you what she has been telling me all week, almost word for word, so I wouldn't count that post as a tell of any sort, crypto.

[Nikanor]

Oh, okay. Why would you make an acronym for something when absolutely nobody will get it...? /offtopic

You know what? Nico is probably scum. I know that. I was going to keep some pressure on Haylen to see what happens, but I think that if Haylen is going to make herself super-obvious by active lurking all game (which she usually does as scum, iirc), the best thing to do to encourage that behaviour is to relieve the pressure on her.

Unvote. Vote: Nicodemus.

crypto, I want your opinion on Nicodemus, please.

[Nikanor]

You found it something you needed to defend against, and I find that interesting. I LOVED your defense though. You said the perfect things to say, I just didn't think you needed to say them. I was relooking at it in that post. I'm still not sure how I view it, but as I said it didn't stand out as particularly scummy to me.

I just like to make sure we're on the same page. Mutual understanding and all that. Getting accurate town reads on the town is just as important as getting accurate scum reads on the scum, after all.

BTW I love your new avatar.

Thanks!

[Nikanor]

And yeah, that sneaky avatar change makes it really hard for me to remain unbiased.

Hehehe. You can trust me, I'm just a harmless little kitty!

[Nikanor]

OK guys, really? This was the most obvious, scummy thing you've ever seen ever?

Well, no. I mean, you could have CLAIMED scum.

he, very specifically, calls out two other players and accuses them of being mafia.

He never calls them mafia. He says he doesn't want anyone quickhammering. Quickhammerers do not equal scum. You know this.

@Haylen: Post content or die.

[Nikanor]

it is unfortunate that MS doesn't have the gender symbols for "it" and "heshe" yet.

Well, actually...

More importantly, why does that cat have no ears? Did you eat them?

The cat clearly has ears.

In another game I'm in, a cop claimed scum, was lynched, and well, flipped cop. It was quite disconcerting. I mean, I seriously will never play with that player again because of that action. I'll quit a game rather than play with him. But still, claiming scum is just someone who should ask the mod to replace them out.

Solution: Modkill and site ban.

To continue Crypto's question, why didn't you random vote in your second post, Nik?

I didn't really feel like RVing. What is your reason for asking this question?

Post 91 made by Nik is making my gut go crazy.

What didn't you like about it? The fact that I changed my vote to Nico when I said I'd leave my vote on Haylen for a while? There is ALWAYS a reason for 'gut reads,' you just have to dig deep to find them.

I have something to say about your Pulindar vote, but I'll wait for the poet himself to say something about it before I comment.

@Haylen: Post content or die (second strike).

[Nikanor]

Nikanor, is Haylen scummy?

Her active lurking is a minor tell, but the fact that she's doing it so blatantly introduces WIFOM.
She's mostly just pissing me off. If you're not going to play the game then why bother signing up?

[Nikanor]

I would prefer Nico first, Max. He's my strongest read atm.
I think your read of SFG is wrong, but that's just because I know her meta.
That said, she IS active lurking and needs to post more content.

[Nikanor]

Re: Nikanor. Isn't that play style thing, though? Pithy posts like that are what the cool people do here at MS. I do agree it's annoying. I don't mind pithy, but I do mind pithy and meaningless.

Is it just me, or did you just call Haylen cool?
I haven't played with Haylen in a while, but the last time I played with her was when she was scum, and iirc she acted a lot like this.
I don't know her current town meta, though, so the fact that she acted like this as scum is null at best.
And Max, I thought that crypto was scum for a while, but he's actually doing some decent scumhunting. Right now I have a neutral-town read on him.

[Nikanor]

Thanks for your seal of approval.

You're welcome! I know how important my opinion is to people.

@Haylen: Please improve your play. If you at least TRIED to scumhunt I would be happy.

[Nikanor]

@Nika: I liked that last avatar better

Me too.
I changed it back. \o/

[Nikanor]

Nik Anor

So wait. My name is Miss Anor? >_>

@SFG: If you have time to write a paragraph about meta, you have time to write a paragraph of scumhunting.

Actually, everyone has posted now. Time to start looking for scum~

Looking forward to it.

@crypto: What's with the new avatar?

[Nikanor]

His Nico case looks so opportunistic my head asplode.

You don't think Nico and SPS could be on opposite scumteams?

Who is Nico's partner?

Don't ask me, ask Nico. I have no leads on that at the moment. If I were to take a shot in the dark, however, I'd say one of the lurkers. Sniper and horrordude, in particular.

Interesting...

I'm glad you find my reads interesting. Why do you think crypto is scum?

It might be affective in order to scumhunt.

*Ahem*

Effective

, not affective.
That said, gut votes are inferior to votes with reasoning.

I really don't like Pully after he posted opinions on players after he was asked to do so, which he didn't state before when he wasn't asked to do so.

You could accuse mostly anyone of this. Why single out Pulindar?

I was not able to accomplish what I wanted, I was trying to find an inconsistency in someone else, and it didn't work.

Are you able to say who that person is?

@SFG, not a problem I was just accused of scum in one game for getting someone's gender wrong something about not reading their whole post etc. I've stayed a bit more careful about which pronoun to use since then.

I love newbie games, don't you?

Way to tell Haylen how not to get on your scumdar!

I highly doubt Haylen would change her playstyle for me.

Seriously though, Ald, I do like Nika's new avatar. I did like Nika's defense. He has a town lean on me, I have the same on him. It happens because we share similar lines of thought.

This. ^5 buddy!
(^5 means high-five, for those of you who don't understand).

I've always liked Haylen's posting. Look through the meta game I linked.

I seriously don't get your read on Haylen, though. Is there any actual reason for why you think Haylen is town, or is it all just gut? Sorry if you've already explained this somewhere.

[Nikanor]

@Sniper: A vig is a vigilante. A vigilante is a town-aligned player who kills all the Vanilla Townies (Not really, but that's how it seems sometimes. ).
A vig is really just a town killing role.

Now, I have a question for you. Are you an alt? Did you sign up for this game to play seriously, or are you just going to waddle around doing nothing?

@SFG, something I forgot to ask in my last post: I'd like for you to give me the names of your two top town reads and your two top scum reads. Thanks.

[Nikanor]

Speaking of vigs, WHY CAN I NOT BE A DAYVIG?! GIMME THAT GUN, GUARD!

--------------------

Nik Anor takes a gun from the nearest guard's hands.

"Hey, what are you doing with that?" Asks the guard.

"KILLIN' SOME SCUM!!!!!!!! AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!" Replies Nik Anor.

"I see. Be careful," says the guard.

Nik then shoots Nicodemus in the face. HEADSHOT! The bullet passes through Nico's skull and homes in on every other scum, killing them instantly!

Town wins!

--------------------

Yes, I'm that good.

I'm also that bored.

(This is a joke post, btw.
^Translation: Plz don't modkill me plz!)

Don't worry, no rule infraction was involved, so you're in the clear. Also, I lol'd.

[Nikanor]

With whom do you suggest we start these lynching crusades?
Also, have you read the entire thread? What do you think of Pulindar's vote on you?

[Nikanor]

@Max: In my iso 3, I say exactly what post of crypto's was scummy. In my iso 6, I apologize and say that I was wrong about crypto. How is that not making a change of mind evident?
And this playstyle of yours sucks, btw. Very arrogant.

ISO me and I refer to 2 posts, go to them and read them. You will find scum.

Just tell me. I can't see where you reference any of crypto's posts.

@Pulindar: Your 191 makes me argh. Sniper isn't actually throwing out any scumtells. He's not going to be lynched today. Please change your vote to someone who will be lynched.
Also, my town read on you just went down to neutral. ):

[Nikanor]

I'm sorry to have gone down on your read of me, but I need to pursue this for a bit. I'm not pushing for anyone else to join me yet, nor am I pushing for a lynch, yet, but I do need to leave my vote on sniper and see how it plays out for a bit. I hope you don't mine too much that I'm not explaining it now, it'd hurt the reason. Just like if I had explained my reason for voting San it would have hurt the evidence.

I see. Have fun!

[joke="Having fun with Nika"]
Nika I think that this post points out that you are in a powerful position. This flavor shows, that as Chief of Security you obviously have access to many varieties and classes of weapons. Some of those same weapons were used by the rebels. Are you affiliated with the Rebels Nika? I ask you this with trepidation, but it is a question that must be posed.[/joke]

I

might

have left the weapon's locker open for a couple hours in exchange for a couple hundred space-dollars (what's our currency called, anyway?). If it just so happens that some weapons were stolen by the rebels, it was totally not my fault at all.

@All, what do you think of Sniper's refusal to out his meta?

It's up to him whether to out his meta. Not giving it to you is more anti-town than scummy. If it turns out that his scum meta fits his play in this game, though, then he's probably scum.
Right now I think Sniper is just a troll out to kill us all, though. (And not the good-hearted Zorblag kind, either). That's why I asked if he was an alt.

She's just being BA. Don't worry about it.

Bad-ass, or Bachelor of Arts degree? I think I know which one you mean, but I want to make sure. Or do you mean something different entirely...?

Oh btw Sniper, you might want to read the global announcement, "Moratorium on Trolling" by mith. Just sayin'

Hey, someone agrees with me!

im not going to vote Max because it could be misconstrued as OMGUS

xD Townies shouldn't care about this.

Alduskkel, are you just going to hunt lurkers all game?

Why does Pulindar have two votes? Sanhora?

[Nikanor]

Hi guys! I'm moving today, so no content will be arriving until Tuesday at best. Sorry!

[Nikanor]

Sorry guys! I've been busier than I thought I'd be lately. Catching up now....

[Nikanor]

I apologize in advance for this slightly Mastinic post.

---

Also. Whoever said that this playstyle isn't good is lying. It sure is more fun than most. It has a twinge of some aggresive players and a sprinkling of some fun players.

I would prefer a playstyle that would have you explain things when prompted.

I don't like Sniper or Nico's playstyle atm, but I want it to pan out a bit more so maybe I can see if 1. one of them flakes out or 2. their goals become more clear.

Active lurking.

Also... I will vote when I'm ready to lynch I have a few people to hear more from before they are lynched.

You realise that a person won't be lynched prematurely just because you put a vote on him, right? Why aren't you voting any of these people?

No, incorrect voting when you aren't willing to lynch someone is scummy.

You just said that you want all of those people lynched. You even said, 'I want to hear from some others before lynching these people,' meaning that you won't change your mind even when those people post.

For example unless you are willing for at this very second nicomedus to be lynched you shouldn't be voting him.

This is false. Nico won't be lynched immediately. I don't want him lynched right now, but voting is one of the main ways you let people get a read on you. A townie's job is not limited to finding scum.

1. You accused me of being scummy first in Post 120 and the first post you reference of mine as being scummy is Post 224. Unless you are somehow precognescent, you arent playing with a full deck of cards here.

Yeah, Max is just overconfident scum. I notice that Max does not mention this point in post 276, his next post. Scummy.

Q1: Who do you believe is the partner of the player you are voting for?

Nico and Max are a scumteam. The way Max connected SPS and Nico so arbitrarily reeks of distancing.

Q2: If the player you are voting is town would you consider their possible partner is clear?

Hell no.

Now i must go hang with me homies.

Where's that PBPA you mentioned the day before you made this post?

That defense just seems a bit strong to me. I see Sniper as a possibility, I don't see the need to defend someone so much. But I have no other reason to suspect Nika, which means that even if sniper flipped scum I would probably be unsure and would not be confident in my suspicion of Nika. I'd probably just go from town read to null read. And that's only IF Sniper flips scum.

Part of the reason that I don't want Sniper lynched is because in my experience, scum never call themselves a townie. Saying that, 'Hey, I'm a townie!' is a fairly reliable town-tell in my books. The reason for that is that scum don't like lying. Lying gets scum caught, so they get into the mindset of truthfulness. Once they're in that mindset, they become subconsciously unwilling to call themselves a townie unprompted, because that would be a lie. Do you follow?

(17) - What is the point of this survey? All I see is noise potential (also correct answers to 5-8 are yes, yes [in nearly all instances], no, no. There is no debating this. If everyone followed those, town would win far more games)

I saw the point as being to catch contradictions.

Would be voting Crypto at this point but im not putting one down untill after I get done with my read.

I totally do not agree with this. What makes you think crypto is the scummiest?

Nico's lurking, screenie taken a few mins ago.

And you're active lurking. I thought you said you were going out. Or did you only go out for two hours?

Holy shucking fit. Horrible. I'll start flaming Furry tomorrow.

You get a front row seat this time, Nicodemus.

What does the bolded mean?

I wonder if there is an availability bias at work here. I'm always considered scummy. I always have the most post volume, word for word. Because I have more post volume, I have more potential to say things that can be interpreted as scumtells, therefore people find more scumtells in my posts simply because there is more post, and therefore they decide that I must be scum because of the sheer volume of scumtell.

Keep in mind that everyone is a bad player until they realise that active lurking is the best scumtell ever, and overrides any other scumtell in any volume.

Voting for horrordude for accusing slaxx of naming his scumpartner seemed really off compared to how defensive she got over crypto's RVS case against her.

Yeah, I never voted for him. (I see that SPS mentions this in his next post.) Also, when did I get defensive over anything that crypto said?

I realize that it won't carry as much weight when I say this, since I'm the one who she attacked, but the way she voted for me seemed suspicious too. She posted once, saying I looked scummy, and then posted a second time with the actual vote. We were so close to the start of the game there (page 4 iirc) I see no reason to refrain from voting for someone that you see as scummy.

At the point that I made my post, I wanted more pressure on Haylen at the time that I made my point, but then I voted you when I realised that keeping the pressure on Haylen won't do anything.

Various posts throughout the day have struck me as suspicious as well.

Which posts? I invite you to make a case on me.

Regarding Sanhora's lurking, I'm inclined to believe it isn't a tell, as she isn't posting anywhere else on the site.

That being said, every game I've been in usually winds up being a policy lynch D1 due to on Village Idiot, but as you know from another game keeping them around for D2 so they can fake claim doc as townie...cough...is more troublesome for town anyway. This being said, I will vote sniper to L-1

Lol. I like the reasoning for your vote. Knowing the game and player to which you are referring, your reason for voting Sniper looks to have what is best for the town at heart. I know I said that I would policy lynch policy lynchers, but this post really does seem to have a pro-town motivation. This post is probably going to keep me feeling warm and happy all day. I'm such a mafia geek. :/

I'm at a loss of what to think about Sniper's self-vote. It

looks

like an attempted self-hammer, but the fact that he unvoted right afterward makes me think otherwise. I'll have to ponder this for awhile.

Sniper is anti-town for self voting.

Anti-town, or scummy?

Slaxx is town.

Saving this for later.

Post 13: Once again, I liked this about Nic, and so did the target of his suspicion. Obviously it was there for the exact purpose it served. Way to try to fling mud so early though.

How do you classify what I said about Nico as mud-flinging, yet not classify what Nico said about Pulindar as mud-flinging?

Overall Read: Not a big fan. A lot of filler posts, a lot of humor, which I said I don't like but is a null tell regardless, jumpy defense of a very suspicious player. If Nic clears out I think competing bandwagons on Nik and Max would be amazing for town.

I thought that I've made quite a few good points along the road. Not much I can say about your read on me, though. I've explained in this post why I thought Sniper was town.
Question: If Nico flips scum, what will happen to your read on me?

[Nikanor]

Oh, and Max doesn't address or even acknowledge Alduskkel's defense. Scummy.

[Nikanor]

So what do you think of Slaxx, SFG? Town or scum?

[Nikanor]

SFG, are you all caught up on the game now?

[Nikanor]

KK Nic, I wanted to make sure of the order of posts before I went all crazy with doubt. Pulindar set that up on purpose, and Nic's commenting to it was exactly what he wanted.

I think you're getting your Niks/Nics confused. Is the first Nic supposed to be Nik?

I think you made a bigger case out of it then what it was.

On the contrary, I see Nic's point about what Pulindar said as nothing more than fake scumhunting. I see nothing suspicious about it, and it looks to me like an attempt to get a townie lynched, which is what scum do.

However, his reaction to it was the first rock in my now avalanche of suspicion against him, but I doubt you were trying to instigate him rather than just target somebody. Does this explain okay?

What do you mean by 'just target somebody?' Are you accusing me of just attacking someone for no reason other than to attack him? If so, please see my explanation above.
What about the question I asked you?

I'm a towniiiieeeeeee bed

I thought you said you were a cop, hmmmm?

Somehow I don't think you were actually quoting crypto here...wanna try again?

Sorry, I meant Furry.

[Nikanor]

SFG, what do you think of this:

Slaxx is town.

[Nikanor]

Don't do it!

Fail.

[Nikanor]

Aww, a second too late. :C

[Nikanor]

I acknowledged it by reading it here is my formal response:

That doesn't count. Please acknowledge things by addressing them in-thread from now on. Thanks.

also Nik, I was referring to the game we played in IRC last night as a counterexample, and I can probably reference numerous examples where as scum, I have claimed a pro-town role even without MC being thrown at me.
Essentially, I'm debating the validity of your tell.

I meant more along the lines of, 'So I'm town. Who else is town?' I didn't mean like claiming cop day one of every game, because that's more a meme or inside joke than anything else.
I also went through a phase for a day where I'd say, 'Guys. Guys. Guys. I think I know a way we can break this setup. I'm town. Now, the other townsperson should claim, and we'll win!'
The first time I did it I was town, but then I did it for the rest of the games for that day because I thought it was hilarious. (It totally was, btw). That's kind of off-topic, though.
I'm kind of doubting the validity of my tell now, as well. I mean, no matter how I look at it, I cannot find any possible townie motivation behind the fake self-hammer that Sniper just pulled off. I'm reluctant to say it, because I hate admitting that I'm wrong, but I'm starting to think that maybe my tell is wrong and that Sniper is scum after all. I'm going to have to keep an eye on Sniper from now on.

Also, if I'm scum, I lie quite a bit (e.g. I could see this as distancing; I had a town read on that guy; I did check the game, but hadn't noticed the vote). Especially since a carefully thought-out lie can be more credible than the truth.

Maybe it's just perspective, then. I tend to lie as town much more than as scum.

Alduskkel: Not too active, has mostly asked questions. Alduskkel, would you mind giving your reads on people? You talked about Slaxx recently; is the only thing you find scummy about him his L-1 vote on Sniper? Read: Neutral-town.

Sniper: Big time active lurker. Very anti-town. If we have to policy lynch someone today at deadline, I heavily suggest him. We do not want a player like him in LyLo, and scum will not kill him off for us. Read: Neutral

crypto: In ISO post 37 you vote Sniper, only to unvote and tell him you think he is town in your next couple posts. What caused the shift of mind? General thoughts: Very erratic, lots of short posts, hops around with his vote/opinions alot. Could be scum.

So neutral-town, neutral, and neutral-scum. Fence-sitting.

Oh hey, Haylen gives us some reads. That's nice of her. Too bad they're not backed up with any evidence. I guess they're consistent, which is always a plus. I don't like that Haylen refuses to give evidence, though.

I'm going to be forced to Vote: Nicodemus. Why? For obviuous reasons...

Why are you forced to do so?

Sniper, this makes me more suspicious of you, but then again, I have a hard time believing scum would be so obviously anti-town and idiotic.

I will Vote: Sniper.

You have a hard time believing that scum would be so obviously anti-town, yet you vote Sniper? That is extremely contradictory. You need to explain this contradiction now.

Unvote; Vote:Max

And now you're voting Max. Wonderful. Neither Sniper nor Max has even posted since you voted for Sniper, so why did you change your mind so suddenly?

If Nico is town, Slaxx gets lynched.

Uhm, no. Slaxx is your strongest town read, from what I've read in your suspicions list. Would Nico flipping town really reverse all the townieness about Slaxx? Slaxx even admits to meta being a weak argument, so I don't know how Slaxx being wrong here would end up in a Slaxx lynch.

Hi Pulindar! Glad to have you back. How was the moving? I hope it went as smoothly as mine.

I'm back again.

Why the sadface? Are you not happy to be back on MS?

SFG, it would be nice if you could respond to what I've asked you to respond to.

Slaxx is town.

Again, what do you think of this, SFG?

Revised Scum Reads:

If by 'revised' you mean 'restated without actually reading the thread so that it looks like I'm scumhunting,' then yes, I agree that they are revised.

Sniper: Pretty much confirmed town by the mod, so anyone voting for him right now is raising major flags for me. Obviously he isn't going to be a whole lot of help, and should really be disposed of before endgame, but since the mod confirmed that Sniper's self-vote went against his win condition, we should not be lynching him.

Well actually, considering the Mafia's wincon is survival, it can be argued that self-hammers are more against the Mafia wincon than the town wincon. I don't want to get in a discussion about this because mod-side WIFOM is bad, but I want to show why it is a null-tell.

-Pulindar is either buddying or just really friendly. He kind of bugs me.

ITT we learn that Alduskkel is paranoid, which means he's probably town.

Also, post 500!

[Nikanor]

Neither Sniper nor Max has even posted since you voted fr Sniper

EFFFFF.

@Mod: Can you please edit the typo in my above post, then delete this post so that it looks like I never made a mistake in the first place? Thanks.

I can do the edit, but I won't delete this post. Even though it's not critical to scumhunting, I don't want to set a precedence of me deleting posts unless I absolutely have to.

[Nikanor]

@LordChronos: You said that you'd be giving your reads on people other than Alduskkel, Sniper, and crypto in the near future, iirc. May I inquire as to what your definition of near future is?

[Nikanor]

SFG gasp. "I do not smoke!"

"Not so hilarious now, is it?"

I think the typo in this flavour would be much more hilarious with the simple addition of an exclamation mark. Observe:
SFG gasp! "I do not smoke!"
SFG gasp. "I do not smoke!"
Which one is more hilarious? You be the judge. (And yes, I'm a jerk).

Lol.

That vote was more of a pressure vote/a vote to remove an extreme anti-town player than to lynch scum, so it isn't a contradiction.

But you said that you have a hard time believing that scum would be so obvious. Meaning you think he's town. Meaning you voted for someone who you thought was town. And you obviously didn't vote for him for pressure, because you unvoted before he posted. Meaning that now you're lying.
Your vote strikes me more one of distancing. You vote for little reason, and only keep your vote on him for a short period of time.

@Other Players: If Sniper flips scum, LordChronos is also scum. This does not work if LC flips scum, because it could easily just be an opportunistic vote as well as a distancing vote.

Now that that is out of the way, I truly love this cozy Nicodemus bandwagon that I've built. I don't think that the six days we have left are enough to lynch LC, anyway.

So, Nikanor, you have exact town or scum reads on every single player, do you? There are no players that you aren't sure enough on that they haven't moved out of neutral?

Yes, but then again, I'm awesome.

Nik, I'll have to figure out what it was you wanted me to respond to that I didn't (I thought I had them all covered) when I get back...I'm going to be out-of-town for about the next 8 hours and only 11min before I have to leave now o.o;

I await your return with bated breath, my love.

[Nikanor]

Saying I have a hard time believing that scum would be so obvious =/= thinking Sniper is town.

Wrong. There are no neutral parties in this game. If you have a hard time thinking someone is scum, it means you think they are town. There is no gray area.

For the second part of that, the other option is, of course, that I changed my mind after I voted him.

Without even mentioning your previous vote?

Trying to resist early scum wagons on fat mislynch targets.

We have five days left until the deadline. This is hardly the time to start worrying that they might be a mislynch target.

IIRC, Nikanor has actually been defending Sniper.

I was, yeah. Now I'm not sure what to think of him any more. I'm going to say that he's scum for his faked self-hammer, though.
For the record, at this point I'd be willing to lynch any of Nicodemus, LordChronos, and Sniper in that order of preference.

Also, where the hell is crypto?

[Nikanor]

Come on, Nikanor, if you consider the context (ie. Sniper's actions), it's pretty clear what he means. How could he even reasonably conclude that Sniper is town?

I don't know. I think it's pretty counter-intuitive myself. However, it looks like LC is using the Too Scummy fallacy, which some people apparently believe in.

Where is Nicodemus?

Lurking, obviously. Don't tell me you expected something different.

[Nikanor]

Like the Too Townie fallacy, but reversed.

[Nikanor]

Actually, I am getting more and more of a town feel for Nico as this goes on. I just think anyone playing scum would care more. WIFOM as it is, it's making me less and less satisfied with the Nico lynch.

You have this backwards. Scum don't care about scumhunting, and so don't care about posting. That is why active lurking is such a good tell.

@All: We have three days left. Who is going to step up to the plate and get someone lynched today?

[Nikanor]

Haylen, you

never

post anything useful. Why would we be surprised over another day of lurking?
You should be able to post something now that your scummy judging is over. I was actually expecting something more than lurker hunting coming out of you now that they're over.
I know that you're probably upset that you didn't win a scummy, but at least you got

nominated

. For two scummies, no less! Most people weren't even mentioned in the scummies thread.
I'm guessing that the way you're playing now is part of the reason for why you didn't win. Your play in this game is crap. If you want to win one next year, I suggest you step your play up a couple notches and actually put some effort into the games you play.

tl;dr: Get your head out of your ass and play the game, woman.

[Nikanor]

I'll hammer Sniper if he gets to L-1 because we really need a lynch today and Sniper is my #2 suspect, but I'd still rather lynch Nico.

[Nikanor]

Oh, plurality! Cool. I'll stop shouting at everyone to post, then.
I'm satisfied with my vote. Don't expect me to move it, unless Nico manages to post something miraculous. The post he promised for us today still hasn't come.

[Nikanor]

The bad thing about plurality: people get apathetic. I'm probably going to put in minimal effort now because I don't have to convince people to vote Nico to get him lynched.

[Nikanor]

Lame.

[Nikanor]

Right, so firstly, I am quite suspicious of Nikanor. This is because he has been pushing me for content mmost of the game knowing full well that I have been busy judging and about how much time it has taken up (he listened to me whining about it quite a few times on AIM). Evidence to show that he knew is that he posted about it in thread before I did.

If you have enough time to post random things while whining to me on AIM, you SHOULD have time to post something of use. My standards are not high.

Further reasoning for finding Nikanor scummy is that for most of the game he has been a Lurky McLurker, posting just in time to not receive a prod. Nikanor does not lurk in his town games.

This is either a lie or a mistake. I've been posting at least once per day. The only time I got prodded was when I was moving, which I think is an acceptable excuse.

His attempts at scumhunting are really wishy washy for me.

Evidence please!

Your case sounds forced, but I assume that's because they're all crap points in order to back up the gut read you have of me, correct?

[Nikanor]

@Slaxx: For the record, I would totally be willing to lynch Haylen tomorrow, assuming she's not killed. I also don't see why people are giving her town reads when there is really only evidence toward null (that evidence being her meta).

@Haylen:

Your case sounds forced, but I assume that's because they're all crap points in order to back up the gut read you have of me, correct?

Do you deny this? Imagine I'm using nice flowery words if that makes you feel better.

[Nikanor]

His attempts at scumhunting are really wishy washy for me.

I'd still like to see where you got the idea for this one.

[Nikanor]

Why does everyone always accuse me of being Scummy McLurklurk? I'm not trying to lurk and I don't mean to its just that I'm busy. Am I not supposed to play when I'm busy or something or is there some rule against it? I'm sorry! I'm sorry! None of the posts I make are ever enough for anyone because you all hate me anyways...even after I replaced out of my other game so I can devote all my time and energy to this game that I don't need to spend not failing out of college

Maybe I'm just not cut out for MS, I don't know. I love playing the game but I'm so inevitably bad at it that I always get lynched all the time and everyone hates me. What am I doing wrong?

O.o
I think you're fine....

[Nikanor]

Anyway, where did anyone accuse you of lurking?

[Nikanor]

I have my vote cocked towards Nico if everyone else in the town is ready.

I don't really care, tbh. So long as you vote Nico by the end of the day, I'm good. I'd rather you wait for Dragonfly to post a couple more times before you vote Nico, though. As much as I want Nico lynched, I don't want a hammer to come out of nowhere and end the day now.

[Nikanor]

So the fact that Nico hasn't given any of the content he's promised makes him pretty obviously scum. I wouldn't be too upset if he was hammered now. *Hint hint* The only thing I would be upset about is the lack of content from Dragonfly.

[Nikanor]

Go for it. Dragonfly can make up for lost content tomorrow, assuming he survives.

[Nikanor]

WOW. Awesome people think alike

Fixed.

[Nikanor]

What the hell?

[Nikanor]

Speak of the devil, lol.

[Nikanor]

Ew @ the FoSs. Dragonfly, tell us now who you think is the scum out of Sniper/Nicodemus.

[Nikanor]

Since he was just hammered and stuff.

What the hell?

This was in response to 715 and 716 btw. I like the hammer. Ballsiness is a town tell.

[Nikanor]

@SFG: NK analysis isn't going to get us anywhere. In this game, I deliberately called someone town before nking them. That way I wouldn't be looked at when that person was killed.
I need to reread. Apparently someone agreed with me that LC was scummy, and now my main suspect is dead (and a townie. Awesome).

[Nikanor]

SFG, putting NK analysis aside, who do you actually think is scum?

[Nikanor]

Okay then. You go ahead and analyze nks all you want. In the meantime, I'm going to stand here and do some real scumhunting (once I'm finished my reread).

[Nikanor]

So I've finished my reread, and... pretty much nothing has changed.
@Furry: What do you think of Sniper's 'Self-hammer' and unvote? Have you read what I've said on the subject?

I'll post a list of the scum once Furry answers this question.

[Nikanor]

Who do you think the scum are, Furry? I want four names from you.

[Nikanor]

Why do you think SPS is town?

[Nikanor]

That depends on Furry's answer to my question, Haylen. If I don't think his reasons for thinking SPS is town are good enough, he will earn himself a spot on my scumlist.

[Nikanor]

Yes, I'll get to my cases later, but right now I'm playing the new pokemon XD.

Ohh, how is it? I've been wanting to try it, but I put my DS somewhere when I moved and now I can't find it. T-T

[Nikanor]

You do realize burden of proof is more on you then me here right?

No it isn't.
Scum sometimes give out town reads for weak reasons to buddy up to another person. I'm not sure how much other people do that, but I do it all the time as scum. That's why I'm asking you.

Why do you think he is NOT town?

He's more neutral to me. 'Pushing action' is a null tell, in my opinion.

And now, I reveal to you my list. Blue/green is town and red is scum obv.

Slaxx

- Slaxx isos and builds cases on people without prompt. Active, level-headed. I think just about everyone thinks Slaxx is town at this point, so I'm not going to go too much into this.

SFG

- SFG seems genuine about everything she says. She's also fitting her town meta nicely. Her actions look more like those coming from an uninformed party than an informed one. Town.

Pulindar

- I still have a town read on Pulindar from day one, and for the same reasons. I can elaborate if anyone needs me to do so, but my reasons should be in my posts. I do have a problem with his tunneling on Sniper, though. The last time I saw tunneling like this it was by an sk. It bothers me because it almost feels like forced consistency. Since this is my only issue with him, I'm going to put him as slightly town.

Alduskkel

- A bit lurkish, but provides some good points. I'm not ready to make him blue, but Alduskkel is probably town.

Furry

(Furry, if you can't read yellow text) - Difficult to read. I couldn't follow his catch-up posts, since they don't have quotes or anything (it's difficult to follow even with tabs open). I feel like we don't share the same mindset. Furry would make a good scum kill (hint hint).

Steam-Powered Shovel

(SPS) - I'm leaning scum on SPS, but I'm not sure why. It's probably gut. Someone remind me to iso SPS later on in the day.

Sniper

- I've already explained this. I'm now convinced that he faked his self-hammer in an attempt to look more town, which is mega scummy. Scum.

Haylen

- She's finished with her judging, but still has yet to post any good content. (Preview edit: I see that Alduskkel agrees with me here). Scum. Active lurker.

Max

- Max is scum for not following up on his questions, which is a fakescumhunting tell. A lot of the stuff he says is wrong, and the stuff that is right isn't very good. Max also needs to place a vote on his top suspect in his next post or I'll flip out.

So right now I'm going to say that my town and scum reads are right, and that one of my neutral reads are scum. That means that I should

Vote: Max.

Sniper might get replaced, and Haylen can post more content to redeem herself, but Max is stuck with his scumminess forever.

[Nikanor]

Max, the reason I want you to vote for someone is because I want you to put up a fight. The more struggle you put up before your death, the more info and interactions we have to analyze after you're gone. And the best way to put up a struggle is to push for a competing wagon.
I want to see you fight for your life, Max. I want to see you sweat, scream and bleed all the way to the noose. And the only way you're going to have any chance to survive this day is if you start and push a competing bandwagon.
Make it happen, Max.

On a serious note I'm going now so while I'm gone I think you should lynch Furry, upon ISO of Furry, he is manipulative, and well generally manipulative people are scummy.

This is not good enough, by the way. Convince me by giving me actual evidence.

[Nikanor]

Anyone have anything to say? I'm still waiting on content from Haylen and Slaxx.

[Nikanor]

I gave you some content when I spoke about Max.

Yes, I suppose that is correct. Would you be willing to post one of those little blurbs about each person alive, perchance?

Tags fixed.

[Nikanor]

@Mod: Can you fix my tags for me, please?

Thanks.[/color]

[Nikanor]

Stupid tags! WHAT DO YOU WANT FROM ME?!

[Nikanor]

I'm not voting because, once again, I forgot that I have a vote I'm supposed to put somewhere.

This is what scum does, y'know.

Day 4 - 1 Scum A, 1 Scum B, 2 Town
This is a Prisoner's Dilemma.

PD is town win.

So, you are tunneling on me openly... right, how incredibly townie of you.

Well it wouldn't happen if you gave me something else to look at, like that nice big post you've written. I'm looking forward to the back and forth that will come from that.

Slaxx, I don't think that Furry and Sniper are partners. In fact, I'd be willing to bet against it. Never do scumbuddies stick up for each other that much. It's WIFOM, but it's also asking for a chainlynch.
That said, Furry probably does have a town read on Sniper, regardless of Furry's alignment. Scum would rather see the other scumteam in the noose than a townie, so I don't see the point of protecting someone you think is scum as scum, unless you're planning on killing that person at night and are just distancing yourself from said kill.
You follow?

[Nikanor]

Slaxx, I assume that you're still working on your Nik/SFG, Pul/SPS, Sniper cases, yes?

[Nikanor]

I can link you to a game where I was town and forgot that I had a vote. If you so wish.

I'm good, thanks. I don't really pay attention to catch-all 'that's what scum does' scumtells like that, but the reactions I get from accusing someone of something like that can be telling of a player's alignment.
Your reaction was good, if you're wondering.

also I've apparently been misinformed as to the definition of "prisoner's dilemma"

PD is where there is one person of each scumteam alive and town cannot lynch scum and win. They have to nolynch and hope for scum cross-kills.
The classic example is 1:1:1. Another example is the one you showed, 1:1:2. In the 1:1:2 case, however, we lynch a townie and hope for cross-kills.

[Nikanor]

Can we please agree on someone to lynch?
Slaxx, Haylen, I would really like to see those blurbs you've promised.

[Nikanor]

Uhm. Bump?

[Nikanor]

I'm such a slacker. I need to catch up on recent events.

[Nikanor]

Sorry for my absence!

Somehow on Day 2, Max jumps onto his radar from having been mentioned only offhandedly as being scummy on Day 1. Why did you switch from pushing Haylen to pushing Max on Day 2 right as the wagon was forming on Max?

I said why Max is scummy.
Part of the reason for why I'm not voting Haylen is, ashamedly, NK analysis. I would have expected myself or someone else who was suspicious of Haylen to die last night if Haylen were scum.

The whole way you get information is by players not agreeing. Not by players agreeing.

But if everyone agrees with who I want to lynch, we would always lynch scum (Nicodemus? Who's he?)

Also if we are talking theory, if we lynch scum, other scum should be taking a shot at their partner. It would eliminate all night threats to the scum.

Directing the scumkills is scummy.

I'm going to make myself a sandwich.

[Nikanor]

Sorry. I'm at the parents' house now, but I'll post later tonight.