Open 204: Friend and Enemies Over

[PaltryExcuse]

Vote: pwnman

For needing an RVS disclaimer in their vote.

explain your avatar.

It's a moose crossing sign. I'm Canadian and hence affiliated with the moose.

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@Excedrin: You both RV'd and made questions for all. Do you prefer a RVS or a RQS?

[PaltryExcuse]

Is your game stagnating? What you need is some questions!

@hewitt: How do you approach a single scum team game and a multiple scum team game differently?

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@don_johnson: Does your strategy change at all when comparing open to normal games?

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@kunkstar7: Do you think it's better to start conversation or wait for it to be started?

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@Mindgamer: Would you call yourself and aggressive or passive player?

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@DiscoRoboto: How would you suggest we get out of RVS?

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@farside22: Does your modding help you get a better read on people when you play a game?

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@pwnman: Do you think information can be gleaned out of the RVS late game?

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@Excedrin: Same question as in my previous post.

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@Light: Do you think asking about avatars will progress us out of RVS?

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@McGriddle: Do questions like this hurt or help the town?

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@water_foul: Why did you answer a question I think was meant for Excedrin?

[PaltryExcuse]

I don't think Mindgamer is anti-town at this point, I think he's just REALLY desperately trying to get out of the RVS.

This kind of attitude is actually the worst for town at this point. How long are we in RVS before a case becomes legitimate?

@Excedrin: You both RV'd and made questions for all. Do you prefer a RVS or a RQS?

I don't prefer either. Why does it have to be one or the other?

It doesn't. I did both. Whatever works for that game, run with it.

Also @Excedrin:

Why did Excedrin vote for McGriddle for not voting when he didn't post in the game at that point?

No response?

Unvote; Vote: DiscoRoboto

@Everyone: what is the best way to get out of RVS stage?

Bandwagonning and provoking questions are good ways to get out valid reads on people's behaviour. (And things just snowball from there.)

[PaltryExcuse]

At this point?
At this point, we should not draw conclusions too quickly. That's exactly what I'm doing, how is that bad for Town?

My comment had nothing to do with drawing conclusions too quickly. It had to do with shuffling off an argument just because it's early in the game.

[PaltryExcuse]

PaltryExcuse: I really don't understand the point you are trying to make against Disco.

Mindgamer takes a stab at Disco, and I thought he was discrediting it with this:

Guess this is the way out right now though.

'The way out' being out of RVS.

I don't think Mindgamer is anti-town at this point, I think he's just REALLY desperately trying to get out of the RVS.

And again, re-iterating how the argument is just to get out of RVS and not valid.

My point has nothing to do with the validity of Mindgamer's argument, just that Disco has twice finished up his posts with something that discredits Mindgamer and has nothing to do with his actual point.

[PaltryExcuse]

@Light: What are your opinions on... anything? You've stayed very neutral in your posts so far.

[PaltryExcuse]

@PaltryExcuse: You asked hewitt earlier about multiple scumteams changing the way of play. Is there multiple scumteams? I have reread the first post multiple times and I still am not sure on this.

The last (and only) game I played with hewitt was an open multiple scum team game: Big Brother Mafia. It was modded by farside22.
This game has only one scumteam.

[PaltryExcuse]

@Mindgamer: Are Disco's responses (calling stuff BS, the game idiotic) synonymous with a particular game (scum or town)?

@Light: So basically 'no comment' on anything? What would you do to move us out of random voting, questioning, and commenting?

[PaltryExcuse]

@ PaltryExcuse
DiscoRoboto is always agressive like this, this behaviour is not allignment-specific.

Okee dokes.

Unvote

At this point I'm going to

Vote: Light

.

Twice I've tried to get him involved and he seems adverse to jump into the fray. Unless someone talks to him specifically he says nothing.

These three are currently screaming scum team to me... Does any one else get this read?

This is the second time you've looked at town for approval. You're number two on my list right now.

[PaltryExcuse]

@Mod: farside isn't voting me, she's voting don_johnson I believe.

[PaltryExcuse]

@Mod: And what is going on with pwnman? It's been 5 days since he posted last.

Waiting on him to pick up his prod, or be force replaced.

[PaltryExcuse]

Right now my 2 suspects are:
water_foul - this is just my intuition playing in, but i think we need to check him/her out more.
pwnman - lurking

Yes I agree with pwnman lurking. Based off of meta, pwnman is a very active player and very aggressive when he is town, and a little more laxed and lurky when he is scum.

Is not posting for 5 days a sign of lurking or flaking?

[PaltryExcuse]

what?

u read wrong. IF the case is strong on exedrin, then i'll vote for him. It does not mean that i won't give my input. Is stating that i "think that exedrin is not scum" not input to you?

Is not posting for 5 days a sign of lurking or flaking?

yes, and pwnman should be prodded aswell.

Not what I meant when I asked that. I was basically saying I see it as flaking, and not lurking as scum can be prone to do.

Secondly, I agree with kunkstar. Your content post consisted of an ambiguous comment on Excedrin, an ambiguous comment on water_foul, and then suspicion on a guy who hasn't even posted outside of RQS. I think pwnman needs a good prod, maybe a boot in the ass, but it doesn't make him scummy. If he is flaking, as 5 days without a post tends to imply, I'm thinking a replacement is in order which is a null tell either way you look at it.

[PaltryExcuse]

@Disco:...why...?

@Light:
lylo = Lynch or lose.
Lylo is when town is in a situation where they lynch mafia or lose.
Mylo = mislynch or lose.
Mylo is when town is in a situation where if they mislynch, they lose... however they can still No lynch and live.

I understand the need to defend oneself, but, where's that analysis? You said it was implied on your post a couple days ago and you've posted since then sans analysis.

On dj: I disagree. I thought this was scumhunting.

[PaltryExcuse]

i'm not exactly sure what's going on here. DR is acting like a jack ass. if he wants to be lynched, then i'll vote for him. tbh, i am considering replacing out of this game. i don't know what else to do here. DR seems to have some insight as to my role. he needs to explain himself at this point, but i am not sure if he should as revealing role information unprovoked on day 1 only helps scum. if he's not a mason, i am fine with lynching him. if he is a mason, then 218 is quite possibly the worst post i have ever seen on this site. in fact:

unvote, vote: discoroboto

the only way i can deal with this issue is head on.

So you think he's scum based on the post?

[PaltryExcuse]

@DJ: Is there someone who you're thinking is scummier now? If so, why not vote them instead of focusing on this?

@pwnman: I see you posting in a different game...

[PaltryExcuse]

How was I breadcrumbing a Mason? I could've just simply seen things in his posts or 1000 other things that are possible.

If this was the case, why not just say what it is?
The only other reason I can see right now is farside's, that you were fishing for a reaction. However, if it's something in-thread, just say it. I see no reason not to.

And secondly: Who do you think is likely scum? Why did you unvote Excedrin?

[PaltryExcuse]

I will be voting DiscoRoboto after a votecount,

As in, you will vote me if it won't hammer?

Yes only because I would like the day to run it's course, at this point I am pretty sure you are scum but instead of hammering you and cutting the day short I still think there is much to gain from a longer day.

Agree, but for a different reason. Mindgamer, pwnman, Excedrin and Light have not weighed in on the situation at all. kunkstar just expressed confusion, and farside wanted to return with after a re-read.

My view of things:
Either way, Disco's original post that set all this off looks like a semi-claim. This couldn't have been a good move for either Mason or Mafia. Mason semi-claiming Day 1, especially unprovoked? Bad idea (town tries to hide the mason). Mafia semi-claiming Mason Day 1, especially unprovoked? Bad idea (suicidal tactic). A townie semi-claiming Mason Day 1, especially unprovoked? The best of the three ideas, but still a bad idea (as a Mason could reveal themselves to out you). I only see mafia gaining out of this universally bad idea.

don's reaction to farside's view confused me, and his vote of farside surprised the crap out of me. I don't really understand the case on farside at all.

Outside of this needless confusion:
Disco has been virulent, and I haven't seen any viable hunting from him. His attack on Excedrin was slightly OMGUS, and really I don't understand the thinking at all. The other thing I noticed is that DR voted Excedrin, after McGriddle did. The reason this is important is because in the post previous to his vote, DR throws suspicion on McGriddle.

McGriddles buddying is

DULY

noted

As I said before, I thought I saw don_johnson scumhunting. In review, I don't see anything previous to the claim as negative, except having to be prompted in order to give a reason for his vote.

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Overall, I'd be more willing to vote for Disco than don. However, I've seen nothing good come from Light yet, and he hasn't even attempted to attack, make enemies etc. in order to find scum. I still find Light scummiest and that's where my vote will stay.

[PaltryExcuse]

I only see mafia gaining out of this universally bad idea.

So it's anti-town, but is it actually scummy? I'm having a hard time finding any motivation for it.

I agree. That was my point, and why I focused on the beforehand stuff. DJ was more helpful previous to this, and Disco voted with someone who I think he thought was scummy.

But just to clear up matters:
@Disco: Did you think McGriddle was scummy when you voted Excedrin?

[PaltryExcuse]

I don't remember. Did you think McGriddle was scummy when I voted?

Nope, I just got the impression you did.

[PaltryExcuse]

No claiming. You're not at L-1, at least 4 players haven't weighed in on this at all... on those two reasons it'd be a no from me.

[PaltryExcuse]

About posts 53 & 64:
Twice Mindgamer had commented against Disco, and twice he mentioned the attacks were just in RVS. I thought he was discrediting the argument based on it being in RVS rather than just disputing the points.

[PaltryExcuse]

Actually, I think I get what farside's trying to say better. Specifically, post 309 helped a lot.

Problems with Disco:
1) How does Disco pointing this out help town at ALL?
2) Although this explains why Disco didn't want to elaborate on it anymore, how does it explain him needing to claim? This question is much more distressing.

it would mean i'd have to claim my role. do you guys still want to do through with this?

Your explanation, farside, does not explain this response.

@don: Explain your vote on farside. It makes no sense.

[PaltryExcuse]

@Farside: Did we lose our mod?

And, if you're still there:

Mod: Pwnman has disappeared... again. He's taken McGriddle with him. Prods please.

[PaltryExcuse]

I'd still rather lynch Light over either of these two. His resignation once I applied the smallest amounts of pressure, how he doesn't add ANYTHING unless talked to directly, and I finally got an 'analysis' out of him it is wishy-washy at best and a lynch of the player who pays absolutely no attention to the game (pwnman).

Bah humbug, my case is sound.

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@Farside: Why would Disco have to claim in your logic? That is the major gap I'm looking at for the defense on Disco.

[PaltryExcuse]

Does no one want to lynch Light today?

And are we assuming deadline holds sans mod?

[PaltryExcuse]

Ze Case on Light:

A) He doesn't participate unless you ask him questions directly or pressure him.

At the start of the game I asked him 2 questions to try and get some sort of opinion out of him. He didn't give any answers, and so I voted him. Then he starts responding...

B) When he finally gives an opinion on something, it is extremely wishy-washy...

alright then paltryexcuse, i will get more involved. tbh the other mafia game i've been participating in seems much more interesting, which is why i've diverted a lot of my attention to it rather than split it 50-50.

I do not think Exedrin is scum, however i may be swayed to vote for him if evidence is presented.

Right now my 2 suspects are:
water_foul - this is just my intuition playing in, but i think we need to check him/her out more.
pwnman - lurking

No explanation needed. Just read.

C) And it also targets the guy (pwnman) who has said NOTHING all game beyond responding to a prod and answering some RQS question.

This is disturbing because up until this point pwnman had said nothing, so it was a policy/easy lynch on the player with 3 votes at the time. Secondly, I would argue that Light was active lurking. It takes him less than a day to respond, however he still provides zilch.

D) He alludes to giving an analysis in this post, and his defense is only "this is the way I play" and "town would suffer a mislynch".

He's defeatist and appeals to emotion. He then defends himself a couple more times without an analysis still. The pressure dies down on him (a.k.a Disco makes his 'Don ain't a mason remark') And then he pops in two days later to go on V/LA. The V/LA I can't dispute as being legit (and I'm not), but he had two days between his last post and the announcement of his V/LA to say

SOMETHING

.

But not being open is also a shit thing.

My ease of being swayed? i said i could be swayed to vote for exedrin if enough evidence was presented. It wouldn't be "regardless of it's true merits" because im voting based on evidence presented.

So what would you have me do to prove my innocence then? be less ambiguous? Narhh, i play the way i play.

You cannot change my core playstyle, i will always be open. always, regardless of faction.

The defense of 'you don't know me'.

I also stated at page 7-8 that i would start paying more attention.

Did you not conclude that i have yet to fully analyze the pages and posts before it?

The promise of a future analysis.

If you believe me to be the scum, then vote me out. i have absolutely nothing to lose. However the town would have then suffered from a mislynch.

Appeal to emotion.

Overall: It's anti-town, and scummy to me. There is nothing good to be gleaned from this.

However, Light's V/LA is also why I want to know if we're going to be assuming that the (new?) mod is going to extend the day (or we're going to say s/he is going to due to extenuating circumstances). I want at least an answer before the end of the day, but if Light can't get on in time... my vote is on a guy who can't defend in time which sucks.

[PaltryExcuse]

This has become VERY cyclical.

Vote: DiscoRoboto

That

need

to claim thing still bothers me. This is L-1. Claim away, IMO.

[PaltryExcuse]

Reading is key. Analysis is good.

You have until midnight Mar. 5th (deadline) to make your voice heard and elicit responses.

[PaltryExcuse]

Good luck ^_^

[PaltryExcuse]

@Light: Thing to analyze: The game.
Thing to have an opinion on: The argument you skipped.
Thing to do: Find scum.

@Disco: I think I've made it clear of who I'd rather lynch. However, at this point, we need a lynch today if we don't get a deadline extension. I was, and still am, that you needed to claim in order to defend yourself. I suggested that we wait until you're at L-1 and other quieter people had weighed in. They have. It was much more deadline motivated than anything else.

[PaltryExcuse]

PaltryExcuse
You have until midnight Mar. 5th (deadline) to make your voice heard and elicit responses.

You're not worried about the deadline at all?

Where'd you get that impression?

[PaltryExcuse]

mod: deadline extension, please.

This. pwnman probably needs replacement. This game is virtually inactive (minus disco, farside, and don), and the extension for only the weekend in which the site itself is less busy (due to people being busier) needs to be longer.

Can we lynch Light instead? He still has done nothing... and hasn't even voted. I'm getting major newb-scum vibes. He seems to be afraid to do anything beyond defense and only pops in when he is criticized directly or is asked a question directly.

I'll unvote if we get an extension (and move to Light), otherwise I'm staying on Disco.
I could vote for McGriddle... he seems flighty and useless. Defend yourself, do some analysis (or if you've done it, share).

[PaltryExcuse]

You're so calm about the deadline. No panic, no request for an extension. Just a relaxed 'you have til the 5th of March'. Smells like scum.

PaltryExcuse
I want at least an answer before the end of the day, but if Light can't get on in time... my vote is on a guy who can't defend in time which sucks.

Why does this suck? Light was and is not a lynch candidate for today so he would be able to give his answer on Day 2. Unless he is NK'ed in which case you also know enough. It seems like you're just trying to score easy town points.

Not at all. How does this give me 'easy town points'? If anything, it's an earlier example of concern for the deadline.

[PaltryExcuse]

Unvote; Vote: McGriddle

@Disco: That's the seventh vote (mine). It takes that many to hammer.

Content edited, on damage patrol.

[PaltryExcuse]

Upon a review of each player, I found that the most vote happy / bandwagonny is kunkstar7. He hasn't made a case of his own, and really beyond a couple questions is basically just agreeing with people. I think he's worth a second look.

Disco: Your play in general confuses me to no end. The fact you want to out the masons is ridiculous.

Light, however, remains most suspicious in my eyes. He just seemed to want to fly under the radar, and then afterwards his defense was near non-existant.

@dj and farside: Calm yourselves... please?

[PaltryExcuse]

I forgot to do this:

FoS: kunkstar7
Vote: Light

So... who do you suspect right now Excedrin? I don't see anything in that post.

[PaltryExcuse]

@Light:

Why do you insist that i am the scum paultry? Flying under the radar doesn't necessarily mean that i am scum.

My case on you from yesterday carries to today. The fact that any participation from you requires someone to ask you direct questions or pressure is a sign you're hiding. I don't know why town would need to hide. So, flying under the radar is scummy. This is part of the case yesterday I built.
So to answer your response from yesterday more clearly:
A) You're supposed to defend yourself when pressured by a vote. Only talking when you've been pressured isn't helpful and is a sign you are hiding.
B) Your first input was lackluster. It just said I think this guy isn't scum, I think these other guys are scum. No real reasons for anything. No scumhunting... just baseless opinion.
C) Targetting pwnman as a lurker when he had barely posted at all is ridiculous. Defending it when he persisted in NEVER posting is scummy.
D) You promised analysis, and I haven't seen any. I gave you stuff to analyze at the end of Day 1. Analyze away.

FoS: PaultryExcuse

I think he really needs to get looked at. It would be good play for a scum to aim the "weaker & inactive bunch", possibly to get a mislynch. The more "mislynches", they get the better.

This is just an OMGUS FoS. In no way am I aiming solely at the 'weaker & inactive bunch', and your earlier suspicion of pwnman's lurking (which was really flaking) is clearly a sign of YOU attacking an inactive player.
Plus, rather than look at my posts and give an analysis to the town, you appeal to them to find information for you. Lazy? Yes. But also a potentially weak scum-tell as you want the person pressuring you lynched so he'll stop shining the light on you.

@excedrin: I don't think that the scum are coasting their way through the game. If anything, i would think they'd try as much as possible to get into the discussion.

This is in direct contradiction of you being suspicious of lurkers day 1.

@Excedrin:

DiscoRoboto and coasters/flakes/lurkers. Though I'm starting to think DiscoRoboto is just severely VI. Kinda need replacements to be able to continue.

I'm gonna need more than this. The only person you named you then gave a possible reason to note be suspicious of him.

[PaltryExcuse]

cba to defend right now. i've breadcrumbed the other mason like over9000 times already i think. im ok with exce or waterforl or dj.

@Disco: Your suspicions so far are reasonless. Why DJ? Why Excedrin? Why water_fowl?

Actually, your list is just Farside's suspicion list without you tacked on.

[PaltryExcuse]

Firstly, about kunkstar7:
It's about his voting habits that kind of skew me, and also his relationship to you. He was the only one who really noticed my case on you yesterday. I would hazard a guess that his vote and pressuring of you was a bussing/distancing attempt. However, the latter thoughts (his relationship to you) depends on your role giving me more motivation to see your flip.

Secondly, about my opinions on you:
They aren't baseless in the slightest. My game anaylsis has led me to believe you are scum, and is a sign I'm scumhunting. You're obviously not. My opinions are based on reading the thread and trying to get information on scum out of it. A.k.a. analysis.

Third, your change in behaviour:
You've changed your opinion on what is scummy all of a sudden do to the fact I'm pressuring you on it. Day 1, you found lurkers scummy. Now you say you find it unlikely scum would be lurking. What do you base either of these thoughts on?

Fourth, the disco-farside-don argument:
YOU HAVEN'T POSTED ON THIS AT ALL. It is probably the most prominent thing in this game so far and your lack of opinion on it is distressing. This is a sign to me you don't want to make your opinion known to others because you don't want to be linked to anything negative.

Fifth:
You. Are. Caught. Scum.

[PaltryExcuse]

Ok, we should have taken care of this whole Disco thing yesterday.

The whole Farside/Dj discussion I just see two townies going after each other.

I can't believe that a townie would play so anti-town.

Vote: Disco

@Paltry: Seems like your tunneling on Light here. Although I do agree that Light has defended himself horrible and is probably scum, I don't think I've seen much from you besides continually pushing the Light case.

I agree with you on the Farside/DJ discussion. Faeside claiming mason convinced me, and my meta on DJ (as scum) says he isn't here.

We're just lacking 3 players now, and activity is limited almost everywhere else. Right now, in order to lynch, everyone but the lynchee needs to be voting for that person.

I did comment on your play yesterday, so I don't feel like I'm tunnelling, but I'll give the game a good re-read to see if I'm missing something. Plus, I think the me vs. Light argument has run its course.

Either way, replacements are needed. (Through no fault of Chaco's.)

[PaltryExcuse]

Sorry, I had a busy day. Catch up / re-read tomorrow.

[PaltryExcuse]

@Mod: Please prod hewitt.

[PaltryExcuse]

@Everyone involved: We probably need 4 replacements (considering hewitt has probably disappeared), almost half the game. I'm proposing that we abandon the game due to this overwhelming factor. We can private vote to a 3rd party (most likely the mod) and s/he could just give us an "Abandoned" or a "Continue Playing".

I'm messaging the open list mod, Farside, so she'll look at this message and consider it a possibility as our mod has been gone for >3 days.

[PaltryExcuse]

Abandoned

Dead game is dead. I don't think I would've put that forward otherwise.

[PaltryExcuse]

Was scum. Anyone care to guess my partners?

[PaltryExcuse]

Excedrin and water_foul. ><

If Excedrin allows, I'll post the QT.

Was the third mason hewitt? That was my guess as well. Otherwise I'd guess pwnman for funsies.

[PaltryExcuse]

Also curious: Does anyone have any comments on my play? My main comment is that I think I would've believed my case on Light if I was town as well.

[PaltryExcuse]

Just an FYI Light: There's no 'u' in Paltry. There is one in poultry though...

[PaltryExcuse]

Ah no worries. I couldn't tell if it was a joke or mistake. Honestly I laughed when you first did it as I thought you were deliberatly mixing my name with 'poultry'.

BLATANT ADVERTISING:
Could I convince you to replace into my modding game? It's about 9 1/2 pages long and is an open set-up.