Scummies 2010 Nominations

[The Fonz]

Everyone's got two or three games like that. You can't force people to be impressed.

[UncertainKitten]

Everyone's got two or three games like that. You can't force people to be impressed.

Yeah, I know. I should have probably whored it a bit more to get people to notice it. At least I got TRADTiMM noticed, even if I don't necessarily feel that I did particularly well so much as town was just retarded.

[shaft.ed]

Everyone's got two or three games like that. You can't force people to be impressed.

Do it

[animorpherv1]

Everyone's got two or three games like that. You can't force people to be impressed.

But Scummies are for

all

good performances. If ssomething didn't make it, then it was a misrepresntation of what was good that year.

[Mr. Flay]

Since the judges/nominators aren't required to read all games and agree with all opinions, I don't see what you want us to do about it, ani.

[animorpherv1]

Since the judges/nominators aren't required to read all games and agree with all opinions, I don't see what you want us to do about it, ani.

It's too late to do anything about FL's thing

now

. I was just stating it.

[Oman]

Can someone link me to a position in which Elli has been "Best Newbie", I've not found Elli a bad player or a bad person, but best?

[Adel]

I should have probably whored it a bit more to get people to notice it.

possibly.
my first game as scum, which nobody happened to notice.
the game I won a scummy for, after whoring it up a bit but apparently not enough to turn off the judges. I suppose the player list we got our flawless win against mattered.

[LlamaFluff]

Can someone link me to a position in which Elli has been "Best Newbie", I've not found Elli a bad player or a bad person, but best?

The game I already linked was reasoning.

He also got killed in this game over PR claims, after who he replaced claimed VT, given how much scum wanted him dead

[Max]

after whoring it up a bit but apparently not enough to turn off the judges. I suppose the player list we got our flawless win against mattered.

This is what people have to do to win scummies. Whore up big time.

An SK victory won't win a scummie anymore, as the trend of "exciting" third-party roles continues to develop.

Most interesting mechanic/mutation, from last years' thread the options are:
"Vi's Battery Powered Deadline" - Arbitrary deadline creation. Mod directly affecting the play of a game on a whim (which is normally frowned upon)
"Tarhildurs Legacy of Ancients" - Not a mechanic, a game...
"Yos' Lynch all Lurkers" - Is a mechanic with evident rules i.e. not arbitrary
"K-Scopes Realistic Mafia" - Is a mechanic, mod-abandoned.

It's worrying when an award has 3 what I would deem appropriate nominations. One of which was mod abandoned so should be discounted, the other having no fixed ruling, which defeats the point of moderating. Moderators are meant to facilitate the game not randomly change the appearance of how long to deadline.

Then there's the smoothest operator award with only one nominee. The name should be in orange award, 2 are list-mods, one is a former list-mod, I don't deserve it (at all) and jeep's name

is

in orange.

So I'm thinking if people "whored" up their own successes they'd be more likely to win an award. But I don't think it should be necessary for players to have to do that to win, I think most awards are won by:
"Well in xxx game I did this and I won that"
"Really??" --> Few minutes later "Nom YYY for ZZZ in game XXX"

[Delusibeta]

I'll

Nth Panacea's Best New Player

Certainly over Ellibereth.

I may be only a lowly Townsperson, but I'm going to

second

that. Did a good job defending in Newbie 868 when the person she replaced had instahammered the night before and was on the verge of being lynched off.

[UncertainKitten]

Most interesting mechanic/mutation, from last years' thread the options are:
"Vi's Battery Powered Deadline" - Arbitrary deadline creation. Mod directly affecting the play of a game on a whim (which is normally frowned upon)
"Tarhildurs Legacy of Ancients" - Not a mechanic, a game...
"Yos' Lynch all Lurkers" - Is a mechanic with evident rules i.e. not arbitrary
"K-Scopes Realistic Mafia" - Is a mechanic, mod-abandoned.

To the first one, I'm pretty sure there IS a formula used, and it's not really arbitrary

To the second, the mechanic being nomination was the Ultimate/Renumeration mechanic IIRC, not the game itself.

I'm guess the third is fine. and the fourth is a bit iffy yeah.

So I'm thinking if people "whored" up their own successes they'd be more likely to win an award. But I don't think it should be necessary for players to have to do that to win, I think most awards are won by:
"Well in xxx game I did this and I won that"
"Really??" --> Few minutes later "Nom YYY for ZZZ in game XXX"

This is the sad part that's pretty much right on.

[Ythan]

Good research would help alleviate the problem, to an extent.

[shaft.ed]

Or if people don't think the scummies are such a big deal. It's just an attempt to point out the good stuff. Doesn't always work (as with most award ceremonies) but it still serves it's purpose.

[Ythan]

My guess is that people would take it far less seriously without those nifty tags under your title.

[shaft.ed]

My guess is that people would take it far less seriously without those nifty tags under your title.

Then what's the point? It's not like there isn't a written record of what kind of whoring went on during the process.

[Vi]

Most interesting mechanic/mutation, from last years' thread the options are:
"Vi's Battery Powered Deadline" - Arbitrary deadline creation. Mod directly affecting the play of a game on a whim (which is normally frowned upon)

To the first one, I'm pretty sure there IS a formula used, and it's not really arbitrary

There is a formula. I don't talk about it because
*doing so would open it up to "gaming the system"
*only I can understand it anyway (ask Incognito)

That and every deadline is arbitrary to a degree

--

I agree with Ythan. There's a certain amount of critical thinking to go with the Scummies, because ultimately these are the games that get noticed (for whatever reason). On the players' side in particular, people occasionally play fairly impressive games. Not all of them are recognized beyond some words in postgame and maybe a wiki entry or two. The important thing is your overall reputation - people saw you play and liked what they saw, therefore they'll play with you again, other people will like what they see, they'll play with you, and if you keep it up you'll eventually have a

clique

group that mutually likes existing on this site with you. After all, there's something to be said for liking the people you're playing with when you're on a site dedicated to arguing over the Internet.

That, and those tags ARE nifty. Except for the one with the baby carriage. And the one with the long nose.
It's just not well-known that literally everyone will consequently ply Burden of Proficiency and Appeal to Authority arguments on you if you have one.

[The Fonz]

Is it not possible that, if no-one else in your game thought you were that brilliant, you weren't actually that brilliant?

[Max]

There is a formula. I don't talk about it because
*doing so would open it up to "gaming the system"
*only I can understand it anyway (ask Incognito)

Can you PM me it, I'd be interested. I'm never going to play a game of yours (for the same reason I won't join a tar or xyl game... which I can go into details if you so wish)
And I'm always interested in knowing any system that has been created that is apparently so complex only one person can comprehend it.

[Vi]

Is it not possible that, if no-one else in your game thought you were that brilliant, you weren't actually that brilliant?

Naturally. It goes the other way too; there are some Scummy noms that I don't think should be there, but I'm polite enough not to argue.

@Max: You're not very good at buttering people up, considering you just got done putting down my modding in general and in the area you're now interested in.
Also, my games are nowhere near as complex as Tar/Xyl's. I've tried making setups like theirs; they were

terrible

.

[Ythan]

Which one doesn't have any good nominations yet. I nominate myself for that one.

[Thok]

Is it not possible that, if no-one else in your game thought you were that brilliant, you weren't actually that brilliant?

There's a lot of stuff that scum does to win can go hidden from town. For example, I'd suggest that maybe 40% of being a good scum is being able to make good choices about who to night kill, but obviously town doesn't get to know the thought process behind those decisions until the game is over (and current meta discourages trying to analyze that thought process.) Similarly, encouraging bickering among members of the town (or keep the existing bickering going without getting yourself lynched) is generally a very useful tool for scum, but isn't always realized as good play (partially because of the ethical questions.)

[petroleumjelly]

Is it not possible that, if no-one else in your game thought you were that brilliant, you weren't actually that brilliant?

Largely agree with Thok's response -- the best performances (particular scum performances) might be going unnoticed precisely because they are good performances that required subtlety. I actually think I have two games where I played significantly

better

as scum than Kingmaker II (the game that I somehow got a Scummie for -- without "whoring," mind you), yet I was nominated for neither of them.

Despite the fact that I was not nominated for either of those games, I still

personally

know that I played quite well in both of those games and I don't need a nomination to tell me that. I think there are many legitimate performances that are not being nominated, but only because people were "too natural" or not a "clearly" the lynch-pin of a faction's play. People tend to only see the obvious, as well as sometimes not consider how much of a bind a player was in only to get out of it because they only see the game from their singular perspective.

[Max]

@Max: You're not very good at buttering people up, considering you just got done putting down my modding in general and in the area you're now interested in.
Also, my games are nowhere near as complex as Tar/Xyl's. I've tried making setups like theirs; they were terrible.

I wasn't using that as a "Buttering up", I was using it a reason why I wouldn't be "gaming the system", somebody not understanding it means that even if I didn't it wouldn't particularly matter.

And to be fair it is with basis I believe it's arbitrary direct quote from the rules of Borders of Tahou:

The length of the Day will decrease based on the mod's pleasure with game activity.

If you have rules for whether you are pleased or not, it isn't really based on your pleasure it's based on criteria. Pleasure denotes a feeling.

On a side note, it's partially to do with the complexity but also to do with a few other things. At the moment I'm not playing themes anyway.

To an extent good town performances are often under-rated. Yosarian2 in American Election played very well. He intended to be killed night 1. He succeeded (I believe). Town performances that are too good are night-killed. (Which has been fixed by pro-town team). In many ways, the way of knowing if you are a good town player is if you get night-killed, and not because of crap mafia or being confirmed innocent.

The best manipulator is never found to be manipulative.

[xRECKONERx]

Sooo, is nominating yourself allowed? I don't know if it is. In any case, I'd like to put my name forward for consideration for

Best Performance Third Party

for my win as the SK in Revenge of the Crimson King. I usually hate tooting my own horn but I was actually very thrilled with my win there. I don't win often =)