Mini 916 ~ Brrr Mafia. GAME OVER

[DTMaster]

Vote: Jasper

for not RVSing in his first post. He is obviously planning his NKs right now.

[DTMaster]

@Jasper
1. It's quite obvious I was being sarcastic. The wall of sarcasm that oozed out of my RVS vote was thick enough to suffocate the crowd here. I truly hope you are not serious, as we all know

So because I don't RVS, I am scum? Interesting theory... a wrong one, but an interesting theory.

my argument was full of RVSness. Your response however is a red flag because you emphasised how wrong I was, without doing anything else. I frown upon that.

"frown"

2. Can you link to games where you have observed scum in all four of your types. Your lack of refrences is frown worthy. I frown.

@McZ/Jee
There is a flash RPG where the main character is a zombie fighting for his life. Forgot the name but it was guuuuud.

@jbnernier
You are obviously buddying with cylons. Die.

Kill: jbnernier

[DTMaster]

I didn't vote, I wrote Kill. There is a diffrence between voting and killing mister Nikanor.

[DTMaster]

And yes, since Jasper has encountered all 4 scum, I would expect him to be able to provide examples from his past games to show so. He could even mention player styles to support his acusation. What is the issue with that Nikanor? You maintain a Wiki, thus are able to use it as a refrence to prove a case.

[DTMaster]

@Jasper
1. Does it even include people who accurately support their argument? If someone pushes for a lynch, even for a mislynch, if the arguments leading to the lynch are valid that isn't scummy.

You pretty much justified that all persons who lead the town are scum if they don't always catch scum. I want to bring out Battle Mage and DGB as players who effectively lead the town like that. Even through mislynch or not, they catch scum with that attitude.

I have plenty of links to their games if you want to read them.

2. Links to your scum type refrences. I'm requesting them, offically, since I wasn't blatent enough.

@The1fifi
1. Link please to this game. If you are metaing, you should be able to link upon request.

2. Alternatives to scum-Jasper? If you think Jasper is town, then you must have some idea on who is scum. Or even who is less townie then the others if you have troubles.

@Wacky
How does alt's come into play here? Shouldn't we be more focused on scum hunting players and not worried about alts? Meta's are useful tools, but they aren't the only tools.

I smell derailment from scumhunting coming from that post.

@Nikanor
If you refrence something, and someone requests it, I expect that you are able to support this.

@jbernier93
Lol.

@Jee
Lets do this. I expect that this early in the game these are going to be good reasons.

Unvote

Vote: inverno

Secondary Kill: McZombie

[DTMaster]

@The1fifi

If noone steps up to the plate to address their issues, you just sit back and do nothing which is worse then scum hunting. This is passiveness to let the game naturally follow the ebb and flows of the game. I've seen it happen, and it's never pretty.

[DTMaster]

Hiya Jason. "waves"

Bomb: JasonT1981

@Theififi
Huh? How am I correct but your argument is valid? You are pretty much saying that discussion starting is scummy because I address to a broad range of people.

You need to see how each person reacts to other people. If someone is pushing the focus away from another person, they are trying to bread crumb an innocent or are scum deflecting attention away from their partner.

If you go and tunnel vision on someone without addressing/noting the existence of the other players, you will run into a big dead end in scum hunting if that person isn't scum.

I find your logic to be quite flawed in this scenario because it stifles discussion, rather then encourage it.

@Nikanor
1. You are Grammer Nazi!

Denazify: Nikanor

2. I too has seen scum do that, but I also seen cops do that too. If this guy is willing to run another person up to L-1, then I would like to see his reaction on it. Will you assist me on this?

EDIT: Jee responded. Failness. The above is moot now, and I dislike this argument he did, especially since there was no follow up. Jee's post is very pointless.

3. Because I want to fire off my gun, but my gun seems to be jammed. You're voting McZ, you should be rejoicing that I'm trying to kill her since you are voting her.

EDIT: Acutally her recent post is fishy. I'm recalling Battle Mage mafia where a cop did this.

4. I still like references. Why are you defending Jasper anyways before he can even answer anything about his scum references. This is odd for you even. Especially when it looks like Jasper is coasting away from answering my question and you are doing all the talking.

@Jasper
1. References.

[DTMaster]

Pre-Jee Explaination: it could have been role information, like a day cop. Hence why I referenced Battle Mage mafia where a player named Charter did the same thing. He was a day cop and nailed scum 2 days in a row.

Hence potential role fishing. It would have made more sense to L-1 the guy to gauge Jee's reaction to it. If he was complacent and let a hammer fall, it would look poorly upon his part.

Post-Jee Explanation: i'm quite dissapointed in his explaination. It actually makes Jee look a lot worse since in his post he just unvoted and didn't do something productive.

[DTMaster]

^^ Random "Fosing" Stage? RFS?!??!!??

[DTMaster]

@Wacky
1. I wouldn't like it of course (As does anybody), But if you have issues with my posts I'll be happy to defend and scum hunt at once. If you dislike the fact that I'm getting reactions and trying to draw reads from everyone, then you are scum sir.

One way to narrow down the scum list is to find out who reacts townier then the rest. Scum absolutely hates discussion and would rather have tunnel fights because if a mislynch happens on a tunneled person, there less reads on other people.

The fact that I get reactions/actions from everyone puts together a more complete picture then if I just excessively tunnel.

2. How is iff's recation to a "bait" clearing him? Be more explicit:

What is this bait that iffy failed to latch on to that should have catch scum, and what did iffy do to make him townie. In your non td;dr: version I just

read I AGREE WITH IFFY AND WILL NOW WAGON DTM NOW

.

I don't see how you explicitly clear iffy for the time being.

3. I have my own reasons for my kill messages and it is part of my role.

@The1fif1
Just because you think you are right doesn't mean you are right. It also doesn't mean you are helping the town by voting then unvoting because you are more focused on hunting down lurkers then trying to determine if the lurkers are scum or not.

Grenade Toss: The1fif1

@Jason and Jasper
Unexpected, but I will take Jason's verification for it and the link will help.

@Jason
1.I wanted to see Jee's actions. Jee backed away from his accusation which actually makes him scummier. If this was role related, I would have loved to get the wagon started and see where it went. For example if Jee was a day cop then it would make sense for a town PR to justify: "HE R SCUM, BUT I DON"T WANT TO SAY WHY TRUST ME ON THIS"

2. Again I don't like doing the kills/bombs/grenade thing but I have to do this. That is all I'm going to say.

@Nikanor
1. McZombie asked. You didn't. I wasn't focused on attacking you because I wanted to determine if Jee was scum if we ran up Inverno/Jason up with this wagon.

2. I have to type

some form of Kill actually

, every so often. I agree, it is distracting but there is a reason that I'm doing it outside my norm.

For some reason I didn't do this :S. The correct time for me to vote is when I was replaying to McZombie, but oh well.

Unvote

Vote Jee

[DTMaster]

Lol, since when did I say I have a post restriction. Me bolding and referencing to kill is part of my role, but

@Zach
1. Can you be more specific? You are just echoing scum and pretty much is parroting Jason, Iffy, Nikanor and McZombie. That in itself is quite scummy because it just looks like you aren't contributing to the case against me and is riding on the current bandwagon.

2. I explained why I wanted to voted Jason/Inverno. Why didn't anyone comment on that.

@People on my wagon
1. You said you disliked my Jee vote, but why aren't you even commenting or attacking my reasoning because of this? I explained by the fact that Jee could have had day investigation role and I would rather use an Inverno bandwagon to see if Jee was complacent to let his wagon go forward.

Any townie who was pressure voting would not let this slide (ie. Jee would have stopped the wagon by attacking me). If Jee was scum then he would have loved to have the wagon go forward. If Jee was PR investigation role, we would have lynched scum.

In all scenarios: I would have gotten a good town read off Jee, a scum read off Jee or a dead scum. What the eff is wrong with that?

[DTMaster]

@Jasper
1. Why is it that Jason gave the link but you refused to. When I ask for meta references, I would like them please. The only reason why I stopped hounding you was because of Jason's link and confirmation of your experience.

Isn't it more anti-town to refuse references then to give them? It's like refusing to answer a quesiton.

2.Also your passive, indirect attack on me is noted since you aren't even scum hunting me, nor questioning me. It looks scummy because you are riding passively on this. If you think I'm scummy, say so to my face. This is quite new news to me since You are pretty much parroting Nikanor's argument.

GAIS WE MIGHT HAVE A NIKANOR JASON SCUM LINK HERE. Screw the Jee wagon I rather have a Jasper wagon.

3. Also you parroted Seven, Nikanor, blah blah blah blah blah.

@Jason/Jniper
Actually

my kills

are quite necessary, but only when the time is right.

@Wacky
1. And you can't apply pressure to scum when you are dealing with more then one people at once? We are now talking about game play philosophy which is just as ineffective as scum hunting as not doing anything at all. Less philosophy nao! More scum hunting, like the rest of the post.

2. So you aren't voting me now why? If you agree with Iffy, and you don't think my accusations are sound, you either think I'm scum or you have other suspicions running around.

If it's the former: it just looks like you admitted you didn't want to look bad to join in on this wagon. If it's the latter: I see more DTM attacks then: "Yoh I think Y is more scummier then X".

3. No it's not a post restriction. Yes it's important for me to do this because I made it so.

@Jasper and McZ
LOL You voted Jee: After I voted Jee. Wut?

Unvote

Vote: Jasper

[DTMaster]

@Wacky

So you never heard of people:

1. Using

Kill

as a method to gain reactions for different players? Hm?

2. You also failed to addressed my point that my wagon attempt on Inverno would have gotten reads on Jee. But you can also note that you would get reads off inverno based on his actions. How is using

a bandwagon

to get a case by case scenerio read on Jee and Inverno bad?

3. Dude. Did I full claim anything?

@Jason
1. My bad I meant Jasper Nikanor scum link here.

2. Inverno was the wagon because "Jee mentioned that he had a hunch". If Jee was PR with caught scum I wanted to test this. Everyone else was fishing for reactions through the thread. I wanted to understand what the:

Jee - Inverno dynamic and hoped to get a read based on the whole "I got a hunch post". Did you not read my explanation on the wagon?

@Jasper
Can you outline what's so scummy. Hey guys look at Jasper he is just agreeing with the rest of the case and not contributing to anything. Something is very fishy here because

Jasper does not contribute to any specifics in the case against me right now unlike Wacky

In the grand scheme of things: Wacky is more likey to be town here. Jasper is very unlikely to be town.

Also Echo is contributing a slight bit more and pointed out new things in the DTM case. Jbb, I can't defend against a vote that is essentially a wagon.

@Seven
I want to link to a game. This is Battle Mafia The day cop is Charter. He didn't know his sanity. He claimed he had information that X person was scum. XYZ people attacked him. 2/3 people who attacked the unclaimed cop was acutally scum (we had a mafia screwball) who was Nikanor, and Mayria. They died as scum.

Charter our day cop nailed Mayria and Spyrex acutal scum. Charter died day 2 from a day kill after claiming information "i got a hunch", but not claming his role.

Why? A day 1 cop investigation on caught scum can lead into another day 2 cop investigation without claiming. Once the cop claims, he is dead unless there is a doctor.

Now, I've seen this kind of play with a cop before.

How can I not test Jee's hunch on Inverno

by testing out the bandwagon. Especially when you would get reads on both players based on the interactions between them and when there are flips.

[DTMaster]

@Jason
Um dude: No i didn't. I attacked Jasper because he is refusing to cite his experience, etc, etc.

quote me on where I attacked jasper for saying he knows what kind of scum there are

When you iso Jasper: His case on me is one giant repeat of the same thing over and over and over and over. That isn't scum hunting. That's just echoing your posts over and over and over and over.

Like seriously, everything Jasper said isn't new. Everything that you just said:

sounds like Jasper said something new

Actually I think Jason is scummy right now.

Unvote

Vote: Jason

[DTMaster]

@Seven
Yay. Of course. I'm excited to get into Caprica :3

[DTMaster]

Oh forgot to answer

@Jason
The main reason why I wanted to

Kill

is to generate some attention. I wanted to see some general reactions/actions etc. As you can see above:

I find that: Wacky and Echo are legitly scum hunting right now. Hence they are more protown then the rest.

However, I dislike jbnier's method to join the bandwagon for the sake of: it's a good wagon right now without trying to flesh out the details. Jasper's case is less then impressive and he is on the bottom of my scu list. However: the fact that you seem to be ok giving me some links to Jasper, vouching for him, then all of a sudden going back to parrot his arguments as a new relevation of my scumminess is setting off alarm bells for me.

I want the Jason avenue analyzed. Some pressure needs to be applied.

[DTMaster]

@Jb
Just because day-cop investigations are unlikely in a normal setup, doesn't mean a pressure bandwagon vote isn't useful to analyze player's reactions?

I'm sorry but in any gaming format a bandwagon, no matter how unlikely a role is, is still more information then discussing theory.

@Jason
Actually, it's because of your 180 degree flip that sets off alarm bells. In terms of lynchworthy target, I specifically would like Jasper dead because his DTM case far outweighs the Echo/Wacky DTM case.

Hence I want to determine your alignment to this. If the town wants a scum and town Jason meta: read my Internal Struggle (scum-Jason) and Zach town (town Jason) for some insight. Call it a gut feeling. We have time, why not go down this pathway.

You stating that I have no where to go is incorrect since I have specific people I want dead and specific people I like to stay alive. I'm adjusting my focus, tis all.

@Zach
I outlined that my top suspect is Jasper. But Jason is giving off bad gut vibes. I know this looks quite odd, but I would like to use the day to the fullest.

Saying that my vote is odd, is just minor details. What does it tell you himmm? Why does my misplaced vote make me scummy? You are dishing out empty air right now.

@Wacky
Ok fine! I admit it! I was lying on purpose with the kills to generate discussion in the town. Sheeesssh. It's quite evident that since there was no kills that I wasn't able to kill.

However if you analyze the wagon that is generate one me, I built my case on Jasper -scum Wacky/Echo town-reads.

@Jason
1.Whoops typoed. I should proof read.

I meant in this kind of list:

Town

Scum

Where Jasper is on the bottom for being scum. I was remembering my first game with spinach who posted these lists. Jasper is on the bottom, meaning he's my number one suspect. However my gut is giving me bad vibes about you and I would rather have insightful discussion with you.

2. Not citing experience upon request is scummy because you are refusing to answer a request. It's just as bad as not answering questions. But having

Nikanor

and you

Jason

defend on the behalf of

Jasper

is extremely scummy.

Do a reread: At all times Nikanor and Jason jump in to defend Jasper for the link issue. But Jasper just echos the: OMG WHY ARE YOU ASKING ME ARGUMENT DIE SCUM DIE!

3. That attack is: I frown upon the lack of refrences. Can you reference it. Lol I did not call Jasper scummy because of it, hence I requested references. Everything that escalated afterward is becoming more of a scum tell, as stated in Jason 2.

4. I was lying. However, I do know what I am doing right now and I am playing in this manner for a good reason. I'm not "caught in the headlights". I've been quite clear on who I think is scum and who I think is town based on the current discussion.

[DTMaster]

@Seven

Ahem: My conversations with the rest of the town don't count? If I died right now the only thing that is leftover are my cases. The only way this is nulled is if I flipped scum. Then the only thing you have is WIFOM.

Thanks for implying that I contributed nothing by trying to get the rest of the town talking.

[DTMaster]

@Jason

You 've been Ninjaed by Seven. Also part of the attack on Iffy relies that I am town, unless you think Iffy is busing me and we are both scum partners.

Your lack of analysis is quite underwhelming.

[DTMaster]

@Wacky
You are apologizing for pressuring people? The heck? You are supposed to be scum hunting, not apologizing for scumhunting. You are using Lynching all Liars when I clearly outlined why I chose to use my fake

Kills

as a reaction tool.

You also ignore the fact that out of everyone in this thread, I've generate the most reads off each player. You might as well lynch me for this statement if you fervriously belive in LAL: I am girl, 25, watching you sleep. Lol.

Your statement:

is extremely scummy because you just implied: no amount of reasoning is justifiable in my actions as a town-DTM. AKA you are set in stone with a lynch and will not listen to me.

Wacky = wall now.

@Nikanor
1. Yes. But have you looked at the people who are on the DTM wagon. Out of everyone here: the only one who doesn't even give off a protown wagon approach is Jasper. Jason jumped on my case well after he should have and brought up points that just parrot the one you did.

The Jasper with Jason and Nikanor defence is just one big echoing of the same argument. Again:

why are you answering for him

2. I was envisioning scum at the bottom. If you put in the correction: my post makes much more sense. Why are you saying that my correction to my post -> Jasper is scummy -> which defines my number one scum pick -> is covering my ass? HMMMM? I clearly outlined who I think is town and scum and you still think I'm covering my ass with vauge details?

Iffy and Seven are more guilty of this then anything.

3. You are Wacky 2.0. read above. Read Jasper's posts. I asked for a meta refrence. Jasper refused.

Jason gave the refrence

Like, oh my god. I asked for a fucking meta refrence and you and Jasper are blowing this up as:

OMG THIS GUY IS SCUMMY FOR ASKING FOR METAS KILL HIM NOW BECAUSE REFRENCING TO YOUR GAMES IS SCUMMY.

THEY INVENTED THE URL TAG TO LINK TO YOUR LINKS GOD DAMNIT. THIS MESSAGE BOARD WAS ENCODED TO PROVIDE LINKS IF SOMEONE WANTED TO. YOU ARE MAKING IT EXTREMLY UNREASONABLE BY SAYING: LINKAGE = SCUMMY

/rant.

@Jb
Yes. But the possiblity exists. Hence I voted Jee to test this. It is a normal game: Yes. The chances of a role like that: lower then normal. Can it exist? Yes, why not. Why shouldn't I test this by a bandwagon?

@Reg
I approve of his posts.

td;dr version:

1.Wacky: Lynch all Liars argument = you won't listen to my reasoning. Aka you are set in stone.

2. Nikanor: Let Jasper talk in his defence. You and Jason are talking on his behalf for his defence and Jasper has done nothing to add on to it. It looks like he is hiding behind his buddies: Jason and Nikanor

3. JB - The role can exist. Hence I wanted to test this by voting.

4. Reg - I like.

My role?

I am the Vanilla Townie with a Note

: It says [/b] trust your insincts and make sure you do a clear reread. The action Kill is going to be a vital part of this game [/b]. My role information is diffrent from the sample one posted. Discuss.

Also Do no hammer until Reg finishes his reread. We have time for this, I request that you do so. Play nice

[DTMaster]

@Mod
Er If blue is an illegal colour, you can change it.

[DTMaster]

@Jason

Again point out where my offical role claim is besides this point?

I'm a VT with information. You may treat it as a VT claim.

[DTMaster]

Also it's quite obvious I'm not a VIG of any kind because of the lack of kills, that you can infer.

[DTMaster]

Oh sorry ignored your question: My note is that the action kill will be an important part to this game. The rest is some scum hunting advice. My role isn't like the front of the page. What more is there for me to claim? That is all.

[DTMaster]

Also ITT Jason is setting off more townie vibes.

[b[ Unvote [/b]

Vote: Jasper

[DTMaster]

You can treat it as a VT with an Alice note from Tar's game. IE: A VT with a little extra information. Estentially I have no powers other then this piece of information that I have just reviewed. No Day actions. No night actions.

FYI for those who are slow: Scum would quick hammer calling BS. Town are more likely to ask for a clarification on a full claim. :p

[DTMaster]

Well: if there was a tradtional night vig: you start analyzing that on Day 2.

A day vig is obviously much easier to spot for very obvious reasons.

[DTMaster]

It depends on the flip. However, your thoughts on Town-DTM/Scum-DTM?

Your recent posts show hesitance. Why?

[DTMaster]

Er nvm lol. i requested the replacement gets some rereading time. :p. But I would love to see your verdict given that you are one of many to control my lynch.

[DTMaster]

@Mod: requesting V/LA status till Thursday

@Town
Do not hammer! I have pending questions to answer

ITT Zach is willing to hammer me when Nikanor has some questions which I need to do some quote pulling. Please make note that Zach has offically become: the eager scum hammerer.

[DTMaster]

EBWOP: I should say this with a clause. If I don't answer by Friday morning then Zach has the right to hammer me. That's all.

[DTMaster]

Ok I got some time to post.

@Echo

Imo your reasoning and analysis is fine - however, your method of getting there is a mess. If you were a confirmed townie, then anyone of us can easily take your word for it. But you're not a confirmed townie. If you lied about your first role, what's to stop you from lying about being a vanilla townie? It's like the boy who cried wolf all over again.

Oh mai, so you agree with me but you think I'm scum? The heck dude? If you think my reasoning is valid, and you think that what I have in terms of content is valid

why the heck are you pushing for a lynch where you think someone's reasoning and analysis is valid

ITT Echo is looking for a quick lynch. I retract my statement that you are town analyzing at a case, Echo is hitching the bandwagon ride.

@Nikanor

A. Including fifi? Anyway, I'm not looking at your wagoners until we know your alignment for sure.
B. I never answered for Jasper. Never. I defended him from your unfair questioning because I had a suspicion that you'd attack him for something that wasn't scummy (not providing links to experience of something that is common knowledge), which you did.

A. Granted, this analysis is best done with a confirmed flip. However, you can analyze the current reasonings on why people joined the flip. It's quite easy to determined who put the most work (sign of active scumhunting townies), versus those who put in the least work. Some of the wagoners are null tells. This inlcudes fifi.

B.

Liar

You seriously expect Jasper to provide examples? That's insane.
DTM, why did you decide to vote jbn after giving Jasper the red flag?

Yes, I maintain a wiki. However, I doubt Jasper maintains a wiki for the account on whatever other site he may come from.

^^ All of this is attacking me for questioning Jasper. All of the above quotes are you attacking on the behalf of Jasper especially with the latter. Why did you answer for Jasper? HMMMM?

Look at Jasper's posts in Iso. Look at the

time stamps

Time of second quote by Nikanor:

Mon Feb 01, 2010 6:14 pm Post subject: 6

Time of Jasper's answer:

Wed Feb 03, 2010 11:21 am Post subject: 7

@Jasper
1. References.

I am speaking from over 2 years experience on another site. I am sorry, but I do not have the time to sift through them all and remember which games had which kinds of scum.

So sorry to disappoint.

Jasper got a little defensive on what was probably a joke by DTM.. nothing much but still slightly defensive. that is the very first thing I noticed.

You should know me by now Jas, that I wasn't being defensive... in fact, I posted the next post that I saw his sarcasm and matched it.

Jasper's posts in regards to the question:

Jasper's answer to yours:

I didn't say you were, I asked if you did have an objection.
Jasper, how would you describe the archetypical scum?

No, I do not have an objection to RVS. Sometimes I randomly vote, sometimes I do not.

This being my first game here, I chose not to.

The archetypical scum? That is something that is hard for me to answer. Because I have, on other forums, seen different tactics from people as scum.

The loudmouth
The lurker
The pusher
The follower

Jasper clarifying the pusher.

@jasper
I still want to know what is a pusher, plz explain.

Someone who pushes for a lynch... someone who acts extremely town and pushes a "Die scum die" attitude, while all the while knowing. Then the next day, when starting to feel the pressure, they use the "they were acting uber scummy" excuse... which the pusher got them into uber scummy statements by pushing on them.

Jasper, reading mafiascum now it seems like "alts" are a bit of a problem and quite common now. Are you an alt? If so, why? If not, why not?

I am not an alt. This is my account. Why am I not an alt? Because... I'm not. <.< ...... >.>

Jasper calling me scum, but not acting on it.

First I have heard of you being suspicious of anyone. Why do you find DTMaster scummy?

His constant "I want examples"... coming down to demanding I give him a link.

His weak daykill explanation.

His seemingly good work at trying to push the attention away from him.[/b]

Jasper admitting he would likes to hop wagons, but doesn't do anything about said wagon.

jee:

As for my vote, I was only doing it to get a response out of him. And seeing as he is gone... I don't think that is going to happen. Unvote.

I think this can be a scum tactic... I think someone else already brought this up so I won't elaborate, but since jee just explicitly stated that he actually had no reasons for his vote it seems weird.

I have been going back and forth on voting for DTM or jee... but this vote for no reason then unvote for no real reason...

Vote: jee

Welcome to the game Zachrules!

Finally Jasper's post to vote me, rehasing what he just said.

@Jasper
1. Why is it that Jason gave the link but you refused to. When I ask for meta references, I would like them please. The only reason why I stopped hounding you was because of Jason's link and confirmation of your experience.

Isn't it more anti-town to refuse references then to give them? It's like refusing to answer a quesiton.

2.Also your passive, indirect attack on me is noted since you aren't even scum hunting me, nor questioning me. It looks scummy because you are riding passively on this. If you think I'm scummy, say so to my face. This is quite new news to me since You are pretty much parroting Nikanor's argument.

GAIS WE MIGHT HAVE A NIKANOR JASON SCUM LINK HERE. Screw the Jee wagon I rather have a Jasper wagon.

3. Also you parroted Seven, Nikanor, blah blah blah blah blah.

YOU ARE SCUMMY. There, I said it to your face. Your self-imposed post restriction... the fact that you think that just because you demand that I post links to off-site games to prove my talk, that I am just going to get down on all fours and bow to your whims.

You say you see a Nikanor/Jason wagon... but yet you vote me.

You want a Jasper wagon. Why? Because I refused to give you a link? Because I refuse to sit here and let you intimidate me? Sorry DTM, not working.

Was looking for reaction, not a wagon, specifically at inverno. Thats why I unvoted.

Okay, this makes enough sense to me after going back and looking through things.

unvote

I find DTM the most scummy right now. He sticks out in my mind... so... OMGUS or not...

Vote: DTMaster

Explain to me what's new from the transition of: DTM is scummy -> TM is scummy.

More jasper votes, less DTM now. K thanks.

[DTMaster]

Part 2

@Nikanor

Where, specifically? You have piqued my interest with this.

With iffy
1. McZombie. There is less action on this case from iffy's angle, especially when iffy is defending me partially by the McZombie-scum theory.

I am so tempted in hammering DTM, but not after seing who put him at L-1

Cause i don't trust Mczombie is town aligned, thats all.

Lot's of suspicion, no proactive searching. In terms of detailed analysis, Reg did a more active approach. In this way, iffy looks like scum trying to lay down townie brownie points and go for a McZombie mislynch. It's possible.

This post is also pretty lacking in details:

Hi guys, had some free time and decided to do a quick iso on someone. i choosed Mczomb, cause i had an overall bad feeling from him. After the iso tought, i found out there isnt anything worth pointing out, besides the fact he is always agreeing and using other people's opinion to "attack" other players.

Not particulary scumming, but worthing paying attention to.

Another overall opinion coming hopefully later today

t from when iffy handled Jbb.

With Seven

No. You're scum for trying to make Jasper look scummy for not providing links to experience when that is in fact not scummy at all. Tell me what possible motivation scum would have as opposed to town for not giving the references and I will drop this.

OMG. Do you realize that the whole basis of the Jasper vs DTM debate revolves over that very single detail? The

Kills

are not part of the Jasper vs DTM debate, it's part of the why DTM is scummy/townie explaination.

The whole issue began and now is spinning around the linkage. So when you say that you are defending him on that one detail, that is pretty much half the debate.

@Echo

Ok, so after my reread, I don't really have much to add other than what's been said before. However, there's this: if DTM has an anti-town role, then I don't think it's scum. I feel that his posts are pretty much equally suspicious of every single person in the game. Call it WIFOM if you will, but I've never seen scum able to put another scum on the chopping block so convincingly before.

ITT Echo is not refering who Scum A and who Scum B is.

@Jasper

I am still confused as to why you went to Jas in the first place...

Probably the power of suggestion. I was talking to

Jas

on so I typed

Jas

on when I was mainly attacking you

Jas

per. The first vote was a pressure analysis, which I got some better reads through my full claim. The second time was a mistake.

@Zachrulez

@Seven

Yeah I'm pretty much satisfied with a DTM lynch at this point. I'm not convinced that he's mafia, but unlike Echo I do think we have significant leads no matter what he flips.

So, DTM, if you are in fact town... maybe now is the time for you to stop defending yourself and do a PBPA or something so we have your input to go on D2. I'm interested in hearing what arguments you might have on others that don't relate to your defense. This will benefit town in the long run, and that is the side you claim to be on, right?

[So yeah guys please don't hammer until he posts, we need this.]

ITT Seven is passive. Scummy? If you have a better scum target, again you are settling for someone

who you think is town

. If you are town you should be

bloody ashamed you are settling down on a town read that you have

.

Also have you even read my posts? I clearly said

Lynch Jasper

. He must die in a firery ball of flame.

I see the DTM lynch as beneficial whether he's mafia or not. If he's mafia that's one down. If he's town I'll know who to look into. It's a shame to lynch town, but I think it's fairly justified in this case.

OMG YOU ARE NOT SCUM HUNTING. YOU ARE SETTLING.

The difference between you and me is: I've generated enough reads while I'm still alive to attack someone who I think is alive. Let's keep it like that.

Analysis of the bandwagon from a dead person is one thing, but you should seriously be

much more useful right now

ITT Seven is being Scum's best friend, the passive townie if Seven is scum.


@Wacky

1. .... and why on earth would a PM like that motivate you to go around "Kill"-ing people? "Kill" in bold is normally something that would attract attention, except by using it all day you've turned it into something that could be slipped in by anyone as a joke. Like on the first page:

Initially I wanted to breadcrumb and fake claim vigilante role to draw in the night kills. However I changed my mind part way through and decided to generate lots of reaction analysis by stretching out my

Kill

this. Jason was on the ball for this since he noted that my real claim wasn't the role he expected me to claim.

At the point where I was, it wasn't beneficial for me to claim vig because it's pretty obvious that wasn't true. Plans change and evolve. I have good reads, so I'm running with it.

2. .... Doesn't that mean you were lying when you admitted you were lying about how it had nothing to do with your role?

2. I could be lying. But I clearly explained my self.

Tell me this: Are you trying to lynch me because I lied? If so, why would a townie fully admit to lying? (It's obvious why scum would lol). And if you read my response to the lying thing, why can't I use lying as a tool to analyze people?

As far as I can see, I can count only 3 maybe 4 people who are the only people trying to scum hunt the crowd here. The rest of the day is a tunnel on DTM fest. This tunneling, is going to set day 2 back an entire day. What's left is for you to decipher what I saw in people in posts and determine from:

a. If this is Town-DTM what did he see in X as scummy? Is it valid or should I ignore it and move on?

b. If this is Scum-DTM did he out his partner(s)?

Trust me, this game will make you realize that there are all kinds of players out there. Every thing that you point out, even lynch all liars, is just a guideline and there is no set rules to analyze scum because of the different play styles.

You're right unfortunately. The lying thing, and the general feeling I get about you is already enough that very little will convince me to stop pushing for your lynch. All I'm trying to achieve now is make sure everyone's reactions are captured to prepare for Day 2 discussion.

ITT Townies are settling down and are too rigid in their thinking. Scum has the playing advantage here, aka, I count many players willing to tunnel heavily.

Take Wacky's list:

All neutrals with a case of Jason Town if DTM flips scum

You aren't analyzing, you are fence sitting. Make some good, hard choices man because you are scum's best friend for a sure fire confusion hammer.

On rereading, I could believe a DTM :: McZombie :: Nikanor scum pairing, but I'd probably need to see McZombie's alignment first before I formed any conclusions. Nikanor's own posts are fairly normal posts with nothing particularly suspicious or unsuspicious.

This isn't a blind lynchathon. Yes you can use alignment flips to analyze. You are missing the most important step of all

the actual process of lynching McZombie for that analysis to occur

ITT Wacky is more concerned about determining alignments through lynching and rereading. Read between the lines here.


@Zach
ITT Zach is rude.

When I'm busy, I'm actually busy

. This however isn't a scum tell since he is naturally suspicious.

@Jason
ITT Jason doesn't understand that I just said: If I don't post by Friday I am stalling scum so you can hammer me, as Zach suspects. Aka: If I am stalling scum, fake V/LAs are one way to do it.

Please make note that Zach has offically become: the eager scum hammerer.

EBWOP: I should say this with a clause. If I don't answer by Friday morning then Zach has the right to hammer me. That's all.

These two questions seem a major contridiction......

^^ This is not a contradiction, this is a contract. Hammer me if I don't post by Friday.

[DTMaster]

@McZombie
Oh mai, how unoriginal. What sets you apart from the kill DTM cult?

@Nikanor forgot to do

with Seven.

I'm really uncomfortable with a DTM lynch right now. If he flips town we literally have nothing to go on. We'll have wasted a day completely because we've focused on him so much and have hardly talked about anyone else. Even if he flips scum I'd be hard pressed to find clues on who he's buddying with at this point... So I think either way we shouldn't hammer so fast. I do think he's by far the scummiest player up until now, and I agree he should be lynched today, but not until we get more conversation going.

I retract what I said here.

Specifically the part where I say we'll have nothing to go on no matter what he flips.

Wait what, how so? You only posted your explaination once Echo posted after you no?

Yeah I'm pretty much satisfied with a DTM lynch at this point. I'm not convinced that he's mafia, but unlike Echo I do think we have significant leads no matter what he flips.

I would most definitely prefer to lynch someone I'm convinced is mafia. Unfortunately the way the game has progressed so far I can't find enough on anyone that would make me vote for them. I see the DTM lynch as beneficial whether he's mafia or not. If he's mafia that's one down. If he's town I'll know who to look into. It's a shame to lynch town, but I think it's fairly justified in this case.

Oh mai. I don't have scum suspects. Could it be it's because there is one in front of me that I chose to use "none" on the day ability of "using the brain" that all Townies have? What happened to:

If DTM is town, XYZ should be the next targets.
If DTM is scum, well I donno ABC?


Also

TD;DR version: READ MY WALL

Tis all a good night.

[DTMaster]

I want to add. Jason. Statements are not questions lol.

[DTMaster]

DTMaster = ....lynch him already! I want to find out his alignment ...

Actually, even though this is very anti-town, this is very pro-town statement.

[DTMaster]

Also note: Wacky skipped my wall.

Conclusion: Wacky doesn't read

.

[DTMaster]

Lol, as you can see my role was faked. However I find it interesting that I guessed the element of the gun. Zach/Fify/Jasper should have been like: wait a minute, what kind of role would know that. :p

[DTMaster]

1. Jasper shot the guy who caught all scum on day one too lol. That looked pretty bad against him. If you consider that I flipped town and I found Jasper to be scummy, there had to be reasons why a townie would find a fellow townie scummy.

2. Scum also blocked the JK N1, that's amazingly lucky D:

[DTMaster]

@Reg

You were the most dangerous to Jasper lol :[

@Jason
What would you do if Zach successfully jailed scum shooter. D: (Though that would be very, very, very, hard from him to do)