SWN II: The Curse of the Nekomata (Game over!)

[LlamaFluff]

vote datadanne

Lets wagon him. It worked really well last game

[LlamaFluff]

vote: Parama

Policy lynching is, in and of itself, scummy.

FoS: RayFrost

Same reason.

Policy lynching/vigging is actually really townie

[LlamaFluff]

And here ive just become increasingly erratic with my play

[LlamaFluff]

The reason you policy lynch someone is because if they remain in the game they will damage the town either by making the game a hostile environment, or playing so poorly that they decrease the town chance of winning directly. They are players that by having a town role actually decrease the towns chances of winning.

People like Mastin are people you policy lynch. You saw what went down in the death note game, he just went into his normal think, and town got rocked for it. Scum was able to control seconday suspects with ease and came out looking pro-town with a handful of mislynches all lined up. People like that just get lynched, and scum exploit it perfectly if they know what they are doing.

If you want to go into auxillary benifits, scum really cant PR hunt, policy vigs get to happen, and the town functions as a more cohesive unit. I actually only have a few people I support a policy lynch of, none of who are in this game and I think have all left the site, but at times, its the best move possible, if for nothing else then to catch scum in a situation where they arent quite sure what to do.

Also if the town policy lynched Mastin day one every game, their win percentage would go up. I can almost guarentee that one. Better players increase chances of town wins.

[LlamaFluff]

If Kai is scum, Parama is not
If SSK is scum, ani is not

[LlamaFluff]

Hell...

If breaking it does not get you modkilled, break it now. Its easier for everyone involved if you do. Especially those of us who have never taken anything in french before.

It *should* be obvious why I made those connections. You "having" a PR that makes you speak in french though lessens my connection, but I still think its there.

Also I dont think either of you are scum, I just realized if you guys are, the other are not.

Last chance though, are you lying about the PR? IIRC you have before, if you are here and its ever proven, we are lynching you.

[LlamaFluff]

Can you at least quote people?

[LlamaFluff]

Making 100% sure

You dont get out of doing stuff though. Quote the post, and quote one of these things when you are doing something

This post contridicts - this post
This post is reaching
This post is a fallacy
This post gives gut scum feeling
This vote is bad because
-Does not match past reasoning
-Is bad wagoning
-Uses bad logic

I will obviously come up with more later. This is a good way to start though, quote people to essentially speak in english as much as possible.

[LlamaFluff]

@LlamaFluff: Alternately, you can just lynch those people for other reasons than policy to force the people involved to actually take a stance on WHY they want the person lynched. Personally I consider that to be a much more effective way of getting rid of the people who would normally fall under the policy lynch category.

Results in a mislynch usually that again scum can work into a plus for them. If you rush out with a policy lynch, scum are thrown offbalance and stutter a bit. I need to find the game where we almost policy lynched Nat (one of the three I support it of), one scum I was on for what they did surrounding that, and another was acting really oddly.

[LlamaFluff]

@LlamaFluff: Alternately, you can just lynch those people for other reasons than policy to force the people involved to actually take a stance on WHY they want the person lynched. Personally I consider that to be a much more effective way of getting rid of the people who would normally fall under the policy lynch category.

Results in a mislynch usually that again scum can work into a plus for them. If you rush out with a policy lynch, scum are thrown offbalance and stutter a bit. I need to find the game where we almost policy lynched Nat (one of the three I support it of), one scum I was on for what they did surrounding that, and another was acting really oddly.

Nat, était une personne unique, en particulier en ce qui concerne le lynchage politique.

Still happened, he still is the best example of play that needs to be policy lynched too.

[LlamaFluff]

This is really damn annoying

@tubby

Do you get modkilled if you break your PR?
Do you get a warning if you break your PR?
What is the warning if one exists?
What is your role name?
What is the flavor behind your role?
Are there any limitations on quoting?

@SSK - Do not answer any of these untill tubby does.

If someone is faking this BS im going to figure out who

[LlamaFluff]

SSKs turn to answer my questions

[LlamaFluff]

Unvote Kairyuu

I need some time to think. I just caught up on everything that happened between now and my last post and I'm sufficiently confused.

If you are caught up, who do you think is scummy?

[LlamaFluff]

No one gets to be funny over PRs. Infact, everyone need to say if they have one or not in their next post. I do not have a post restriction. Yes fun is a part of the game, but fun that hurts the town is not a part of the game.

[LlamaFluff]

SSK, Tubby. Out of interest are you two in a quick chat of any sort and if so do your Post Restriction still aply?

This is not important at this stage of the game

Ani. Is some mechanism that you can confirm or deny the restrictions? (Besides the obvious getting someone flipped) I'm not fussed what it is, just if there is one.

This is not something to be discussed at this point of the game.

Why would you think that either of those should be out in the open?

[LlamaFluff]

Not that it's a bad thing, but why is Llama in charge?

because no one else is stepping up and getting done what needs to be done.

If ani can confirm either of the two having a pr, I don't see the harm in asking him. he's the one that brought it up in the first place.

Restrictions hurt the town, if such a role exists that can eliminate them, they will do so without having to be outed, hence part of my reason for the mass restriction claim. I want it out so if there are multiple hard to understand ones, a curer can pick and choose on a sliding scale of potential usefulness of the player and comprehensibility of the PR.

Anyone claiming that they have a role that can help the town at this stage is bad, anyone wanting it to happen is scummy.

[LlamaFluff]

LMAAOA fitsr offf lal i 2tso have a psto restifdpoijsdoin, nadnd seoncd of iall i dnot half tmiee too trnastelate aythung yet btu i wliil two taht twomorrro!1!!!! This ias jstu bsaiellly sasayging im heer>!!>!!>?? o ADN

Vote: Parama

POLISSEE LINCH LOLLOLOOOLOLOLOLOLL

Answer the same questions that I gave to SSK/tubby in your next post

Actually fishy needs to answer them as well

[LlamaFluff]

At this point nobody has solidified themselves as scum or town yet.

You have zero reads?

[LlamaFluff]

Oh and if one of tubby/SSK are completely faking the PR, its tubby. Im thinking they both really have the PR though.

So no one (ace/fishy) can delay posting

Do you get modkilled if you break your PR?
Do you get a warning if you break your PR?
What is your role name?
What is the flavor behind your role?
Are there any limitations on quoting?

[LlamaFluff]

At this point nobody has solidified themselves as scum or town yet.

You have zero reads?

I've found that many of my first day leads are completely negated by day 2.
I just don't get good reads on people initially.

So what, you arent going to do anything today then? If you are better after day one you should just replace into games.

[LlamaFluff]

Sim tenho uma restrição de poste.

Portugese? I think...

Yes its portugese, now please answer my question

[LlamaFluff]

If its absolutely necessary I can give you first day reads. But I've found that often, peoples reads on day 1 lead to villagers getting killed for stupid reasons.

Well I was hoping that wasnt the answer

You are either going to scumhunt or be the D1 lynch. You can not have zero reads on anyone at this point in the game. What you are saying basically is pre-emptively giving reasoning for a mislynch because 'you arent good with D1 reads' and 'they will change D2'.

unvote
vote sykedoc

Contribute

[LlamaFluff]

If its absolutely necessary I can give you first day reads. But I've found that often, peoples reads on day 1 lead to villagers getting killed for stupid reasons.

Well I was hoping that wasnt the answer

You are either going to scumhunt or be the D1 lynch. You can not have zero reads on anyone at this point in the game. What you are saying basically is pre-emptively giving reasoning for a mislynch because 'you arent good with D1 reads' and 'they will change D2'.

unvote
vote sykedoc

Contribute

It will not end well if you crusade against me.

Duly noted, vote stays

[LlamaFluff]

Unvote Kairyuu

I need some time to think. I just caught up on everything that happened between now and my last post and I'm sufficiently confused.

If you are caught up, who do you think is scummy?

Honestly, I don't. My theory having been in B-Mod games before is... its highly likely at least ONE person with a PR is mafia.

You know, here is even a huge jumping off point for you. Apparently one of the PR people are scum, which one? Even if 'you dont know much yet' or anything like that which is keeping you from contributing, make an educated guess, even if its just one line of one post.

[LlamaFluff]

I find it stupid reasoning to vote for someone because their policies do not agree with yours.

You're essentially saying: I don't like the way you play, so I'm voting for you.

nope, its a 'be helpful and scumhunt or die' ultimatum

And yeah, I can have zero reads. It depends on your definition of a read.
I believe a read is a valid suspicion. I have none to this point. Anything I do have is based off something i do not consider substantial.

A read means that you think Player A is more X then player B for point Y or line Z. Just about every post for me does something for a read, there are actually a few people that are slightly scummy to me already and I wouldnt mind wagoning up a bit.

If you can't live with that you can try to lynch me but again. It won't end well.

Threats dont work well hun. Try scumhunting, that works wonders

[LlamaFluff]

Well I've been in 2 or 3 games with a bunch of PRs and I've helped run one. In each there was a mafia with a PR. Its just the odds that the mod wont just give PRs to town.

So its a sort of confirmation bias or something then? I know its WIFOM but man, its wrong. Mod could of though 'hey maybe I can make a bunch of town PRs and someone will try and lynch them because one "must" be scum'

Theres also a possibility that one of them is made up.

Only one that I have any suspicion of being made up is ace. The others are quite obviously real, tubby/SSK especially.

We have someone talking in french and one in Portugese. It is possibly that one of these is fake.

Nope, they are both real.

The others haven't given me reason to suspect them yet. I was throwing that idea out there on basis of personal experience but I haven't seen suspicious enough behavior from them to say that they look scummy beyond what I said above about the possibility of a fake PR.

So NOTHING that ANYONE has said made you think "this doesnt sound quite right?"

Threats dont work well hun. Try scumhunting, that works wonders

It wasn't a threat. Think hard about why I may have said that.

I did, im still not going to stop trying to force you to do something though.

A read means that you think Player A is more X then player B for point Y or line Z. Just about every post for me does something for a read, there are actually a few people that are slightly scummy to me already and I wouldnt mind wagoning up a bit.

The problem here is just about everything is scummy on D1. Actions without context don't do a lot for me. Im not one of these people who believes all policy lynching is town-like or that white knighting is town like.

HAHAHAHHAHA you have to be kidding that everything is scummy D1. Its usually more of the opposite to me, I come out with a few super strong town reads, then a bunch of middling people and a few I think are scum. Context D1 is more in implications and moves that make little sense either logically or with what the player had been acting on earlier.

[LlamaFluff]

So its a sort of confirmation bias or something then? I know its WIFOM but man, its wrong. Mod could of though 'hey maybe I can make a bunch of town PRs and someone will try and lynch them because one "must" be scum'

And you don't think it could be the other way around?

Of course it can, but multiple people having PRs doesnt mean one has to be scum

Only one that I have any suspicion of being made up is ace. The others are quite obviously real, tubby/SSK especially.

What makes a PR real in a game where its obvious people will have them? I've seen people make up PRs to distract people. What is "obvious" about it. You never said that, you only said it was. Also why is a language post restriction more or less valid than a color one? This seems like a very closed thought.

SSK gets points for opening with the PR first, tubby for following it up before it was obvious what we were going to do with SSK. Also for not being timid at all about flavor.

Color was just wierd, and not one that really has a reason to fake unless people will assume all PRs are town.

So NOTHING that ANYONE has said made you think "this doesnt sound quite right?"

Really, no. It seems very par for the course for D1. I dont see anything that directly makes me think "he's scum!". Personally I've seen people White Knight more times than I can count and end up scum, but again this is a personal bias. I don't think this assures scum.

We must have a different definition of white knighting. Im going to make something happen though, especially if no one else will.

I copied this off of notepad... so.. not every one is filled in. Take with a grain of salt.

Ok see, you aparently have reads on that list, so what does it take for you to vote on one of them?

I actually feel like im getting somewhere with this, but I need to get sleep now, and have classes untill two tomorrow.

I really want to see ace post

[LlamaFluff]

SSK, Tubby. Out of interest are you two in a quick chat of any sort and if so do your Post Restriction still aply?

This is not important at this stage of the game

Perhaps not. To be honest I never expected there would be, but by god it would be funny. But the answer was non.

Why would this ever be useful for us right now? It actually is something best kept hidden for obvious reasons if you stop and think about it. Pushing for the reveal because it would be 'funny' ignores all the downsides.

Ani. Is some mechanism that you can confirm or deny the restrictions? (Besides the obvious getting someone flipped) I'm not fussed what it is, just if there is one.

This is not something to be discussed at this point of the game.

Why would you think that either of those should be out in the open?

Actually I would think this is reasonable to ask. Ani could always refuse to answer. He did start right out asking about post restricted players, saying that it was important to his role if I remember correctly, so it is fair to ask if he has some way to confirm or deny them. After all if any of the Post Restricted players are scum Ani has already painted a target on himself. Answering my question, or even me asking that question of him, wont make that target any worse.

I disagree majorly. If ani has any power connected to PRs that confirm/cure/etc them, he will use them correctly, I trust him to at least do that much. What you are doing stands to out his power, if he has one, and lets scum gauge how much of a threat he is better.

I dont like how he has played the role, holding his cards tight untill he saw people post once looks like a better way to approach this, but what you want him to do is much worse

unvote
Vote DocPotter

Meta based wagon is bad. Meta is a supplement to a case, not the main reason behind it.

[LlamaFluff]

- Refusing to give opinions but when pressured by Llama, ta-dá, a full list of opinions magically emerge of notepad. Guess you didnt want to get fluff angry.

Apeasing a dominant force is a smart tell. Anyways, I got what I wanted out of him. He gave some reads, and just is one of those playstyles (that really bugs me) who never votes.

- Overreacting to 5 votes. Really?

FoS Anon

Overreacting is not a scumtell. Saying someone is overreacting is a scumtell.

DP lynch should at least have a little steam at this point

[LlamaFluff]

Overreacting is not a scumtell.

Seriously, most of the 'heat' I seem to attract lately is due to me overreacting.

Unvote

I still have a scummy feel from the skyedoc wagon and I honestly thought it was sky himself.
Just have to take a third look.

Me saying a wagon sucks make you get off it? Awesome.

Why were you voting syke?

[LlamaFluff]

FoS ace

Stop lurking. You have been on site and my questions are really easy to answer if you arent faking a PR

[LlamaFluff]

No Kyle I didn't. Try reading it again. I said I found something scummy about the wagon, and thought it was Skye. I still think it's a scummy wagon and am not sure if it's the wagoners or the target since Llama made some good points concerning it.

Figured it out soon

Do I need to point out that Llama voted Skye as well at one stage?

What point are you trying to make here? Im just reading 'deflection deflection appeal to athority deflection'

Whereas you and Nul appear to be wagon jumping pure and simple.

Bandwagoning when done right is great for the town. This is being done right.

[LlamaFluff]

My point? Well if you found reason to vote Skye, is it unreasonable to assume that I did.

Yeah that the borderline appeal to athority thing. It seems like you are using me doing something to justify you doing it.

I reaaaaalllly want ace to post though.

[LlamaFluff]

*glee*

PR people are using my (patent pending) quick-quotes

vote: docpotter

for all the reasons stated before hand


i gues this is what you call jumping on a wagon

Im sorry Nul, you just wreak of

scum.

newb

Nul's coming off as a newb more than anything to me. Not that that means he isn't newbscum, just that his actions are more newbie mistakes than anything. He is coming off as rather scummy, especially the recent DocPotter wagon vote, I will admit.

Why is the vote bad? This is also a little indecisive. You say he is newb, maybe newbscum, but newb, but his last post was scummy. What is it if you had to guess here? Is he scum or town?

Both Kyle only posted again once they were called out for lurking, and both posted pretty close together as well with a vote for the same person... my scumdar beeped at both of these things. But then again I know how kyle plays regardless of his alignment so this isn't too surprising of a response from him

Again, wishy-washy. Is he scum or town? Why?

- Overreacting to 5 votes. Really?

FoS Anon

Overreacting is not a scumtell. Saying someone is overreacting is a scumtell.

Then why didn't you FoS me, since I was the one calling out syke for overreacting first? (yeah you probably missed my post but still <_<)

Yeah I missed yours, should I be suspecting you too? This really is confusing... it might be one of the only times that I have had someone say "hey why didnt you think I was scummy?"

Are you scum and wanted me to point out that I was ignoring you so should be lynched if you are scum? I guess if its what you want...

FoS Parama

-"overreacting" tell
-Inability to take stances

Is DP scum? Why?
Is SD scum? Why?
Is kyle scum? Why?
Is Nul scum? Why?

**Note - The answer to any of these questions is not 'maybe' or 'I dont know'

[LlamaFluff]

To me white knighting is overselling your role in a scum lynch. Like someone who joined a wagon who had a little bit of steam, then made it sound like they were the main reason the lynch happened.

If we are using SDs definition, then yeah I white knight the crap out of most of my games.

[LlamaFluff]

Greetings and salutations to Starbuck and Reck

Now go vote DP

[LlamaFluff]

Overreacting is not a scumtell. Saying someone is overreacting is a scumtell.

Scumbags are more likely to overreact to a nonexistent pressure because they are paranoid of being supected/lynched. So yeah, its a scumtell.

No. Its a subjective tell, therefore a really bad tell as no one will apply it the same way. Town doesnt want to be lynched, scum doesnt want to be lynched, everyone will defend themselves as much as possible as completely as possible.

The "youll be sah sorry when you lynch mah!!"" is another thing that bothers me and that I think is more likely to come from scum than from a real power role. Do you agree?

No, it bothers me but its more or less a null tell.

[LlamaFluff]

Llama, can you concise your case on docpotter? What are the scumtells you are using to suspect him? What do you think of the bandwagon formed against him?

Yes I can, also any bandwagon is a good bandwagon. Information is invaluable. Too many new players seem to not understand how good it is to just have some wierd blatant wagon.

---

There is some really hard fishing for supplemental or related roles two the language PRs. He wants to know if they have a QT (amazingly important from where im standing), and he wants to know what the interaction between ani and the PRs.

All of this does nothing for the town, and reveals if the roles that will have a hard time communicating are worth keeping around or not. The pushing for information on someone who does NOT have a PR is even more scummy. If a player is asking about PRs, and finds them, regardless of the reason its safe to assume that they know what to do with the information. Later in the game when it becomes reasonable, it will be answered. Untill then, it shoulnt be answered.

Later he goes into wierdness over the SD wagon. Process goes SD vote as "something about the wagon is scummy", to backing off because he wants to take another look as it might of been the wagon, not SD thats scummy (hey you can add fence-sitting with that). Reitterating that he voted early and says pressure from me amungs others made him back off. To defending the SD vote because "llama voted him at one point".

Wagons ho!

[LlamaFluff]

Llama, why would it be important if they have a QT or not?

Given that this has been confirmed in the negative...

These types of PRs are detremental given how they hinder communication from the players to the rest of the town. If they were able to talk to anyone at night (QT) it might not be PRed. If for any reason they were able to freely communicate between eachother (or others), they would become much stronger, and less of a hinderence for the town as information passes easier.

Other stuff I answer after replacements catch up.

[LlamaFluff]

Syke, Star: Cut down the text. It's bad when I'm already starting to skim some of your "points".

I know that's what my previous post was for. Like I said nobody likes Walls O' Text.

I do as long as it doesnt last for pages...

We really should be getting DP into lynch range though. At the very least it forces everyone who is not taking a strong stance on him to do so. There are too many not doing so for a wagon at more then double any other.

DP still isnt really scumhunting.

[LlamaFluff]

Do you get modkilled if you break your PR?
Do you get a warning if you break your PR?
What is the warning if one exists?
What is your role name?
What is the flavor behind your role?
Are there any limitations on quoting?
Describe your PR in as much detail as possible

For RGPH to answer

I call BS on this one though given the openendedness

[LlamaFluff]

Do you get modkilled if you break your PR?
Do you get a warning if you break your PR?
What is the warning if one exists?
What is your role name?
What is the flavor behind your role?
Are there any limitations on quoting?
Describe your PR in as much detail as possible

For RGPH to answer

I call BS on this one though given the openendedness

it's rghp not rgph n00b

uh i dun remebrem mcuh abiut mt roole btu i thik tere was somtehign abuot teh mods dreemz n how i haev too stop htem

wyh so mnayy qeusoitns///??//

Answer the questions, look at your role, as questions to the mod if you need to in order to answer a few of them.

[LlamaFluff]

ALSO: Why the FOOK are we worrying about post restrictions now that we know who has them? It's a great distraction for scum to look active WITHOUT SCUMHUNTING. Fooking look for scum or I park my vote on every single one of you.

Forcing the PR to throw as much information as possible at us to start allows the greatest chance to catch someone who is just faking a PR to get away with suboptimal contribution. In the event of a PR that is hard to nail down (like ace) it makes a lot of sense to get to the bottom of it. "talk in french" is concrete. "talk in pink" is concrete. "talk like an ass" is not concrete, which makes it less likely to be true since its hard to enforce since people have different views of what that is.

[LlamaFluff]

Busy week, multiple midterms, cheering section duties for game thursday... should be able to keep up on reading but maybe not posting much

[LlamaFluff]

Panama

I'm not a country, sorry.
And don't worry about kyle lurking. That's kinda why I wanted to policy lynch him. For him active lurking is a nulltell <_<

deud wat s yur plroamen jstu shhut teh fkcu up

i wantt o h ammer if dp o rsky gtes to l1

oh dinr fell os godd

Answer the questions now. Last chance

[LlamaFluff]

2lama i cnatb e stufde wiht qeusoins atm soorry myabe latre

How about in your next post? Thats not as much of a request then a demand though

[LlamaFluff]

omg im sooooooooooo durnk amt mithg hvae ot rpleca tou lolololololololololloloolololololololololololololololololololololololololololol

Is your post restriction to post like you are drunk? If so I can point you to an identicle PR that handled it better.

[LlamaFluff]

How to handle your drinks better

FL had the 'talk drunk' one there and was the perfect example of how to play it without pissing everyone off

[LlamaFluff]

Time to move wagons

Unvote
Vote Parama

Reasoning after midterm tomorrow + massive HW load

[LlamaFluff]

Nul's coming off as a newb more than anything to me. Not that that means he isn't newbscum, just that his actions are more newbie mistakes than anything. He is coming off as rather scummy, especially the recent DocPotter wagon vote, I will admit.
Both Kyle only posted again once they were called out for lurking, and both posted pretty close together as well with a vote for the same person... my scumdar beeped at both of these things. But then again I know how kyle plays regardless of his alignment so this isn't too surprising of a response from him <_<

Some major fence sitting here. Nul is more newb, but he could be scum, but more likely newb, but is coming off scummy. I dont think ive seen someone go back and forth that many times in two sentances. Then kyle is lurking, and scummy, but it a nulltell for him (out of interest, have you seen town-kyle?). Either way, he just sets up two players that he can go and throw a vote on at will.

Not posting very often [wolf], little content when posting, bad reason for voting Datadanne, wagoned DocPotter. Caught my eye with his early posting and I feel this guy is scum from what I've read.

Why him over the other lurkers in the game? Why is his data vote bad? (hint it isnt)

Why thank you. I'm glad you think that. Anyways I didn't post my full thoughts on him, just a brief summary. I also don't have the time to post full thoughts right now either. So be patient.
Anyways, I would support a DocPotter lynch. Points brought up by everybody else, and he seems to have given up, resorting to AtE in his most recent post. Wasn't sure about it when the wagon was first forming but his reactions reek of scum. Just not good at all.

unvote, Vote: DocPotter

. Still would like a wolf lynch but this one's just as good IMO.

lol what?

He goes from wanting wolf lynched in part due to wagoning DP to wanting DP lynched, but still wanting wolf lynched... I know he says he wasnt sure at first, but this is a sub 24-hour turnaround

However, DocPotter's vote on kyle doesn't make sense IMO. If Doc was scum I would think he'd find a good reason to jump on the syke wagon. But then again... syke was pretty reluctant to vote DocPotter. And he only switched after the Doc wagon lost momentum and was head towards him. I think we may have found a scumteam here. Syke's bussing his partner to save himself, whereas Doc doesn't want to vote his partner in fear of being called out for bussing. But if I look at it that way, then either decision would've gotten them called out... kinda WIFOM. But if any response would make them look scummy, that could mean they're both scum. Eh. There's some sort of logical fallacy in my argument it seems that's causing this problem. Can't be bothered to find it right now. If anyone figures out the problem I'd be glad to fix it and see what impact it has on this theory I've set up.

Look at all this stuff on SD-DP. He has just lined up to lynch either of them based on presented information regardless of what either of them flip. Stunning really.

For now, my vote stays. If both are scum, then I don't have any reason to switch from one to the other.

Oh and more reasoning to shuffle back to a SD lynch

Just go read everything he has been saying about SD-DP and see if you cant reach the same conclusion. Nothing has been solid, everything has allowed him to just wander around between the wagons regardless of what happens for the rest of the game.

[LlamaFluff]

Yeah, hell with superficialness.

Unvote
Vote: Bogre

Llama, let's turn this game around ;)

I just dont understand what he was saying there, hoped it was because I was just tired but I still dont in the morning. Either of his or your interpretations I can buy. Still like Parama lynch better though, and still hate the SD wagon

[LlamaFluff]

Nul's coming off as a newb more than anything to me. Not that that means he isn't newbscum, just that his actions are more newbie mistakes than anything. He is coming off as rather scummy, especially the recent DocPotter wagon vote, I will admit.
Both Kyle only posted again once they were called out for lurking, and both posted pretty close together as well with a vote for the same person... my scumdar beeped at both of these things. But then again I know how kyle plays regardless of his alignment so this isn't too surprising of a response from him <_<

Some major fence sitting here. Nul is more newb, but he could be scum, but more likely newb, but is coming off scummy. I dont think ive seen someone go back and forth that many times in two sentances. Then kyle is lurking, and scummy, but it a nulltell for him (out of interest, have you seen town-kyle?). Either way, he just sets up two players that he can go and throw a vote on at will.

I said that his play is consistent with average newbie play, but that I'm not going to dismiss the possibility that he isn't scum just because of newbie play. And he comes off scummy because of the newbie-play that people find scummy. It's not going back and forth, it's presenting my read.

You are providing both sides of an arguement though and not coming to a clear and concise conclusion. Especially on Nul. You give a few lines that are saying he is town, and a few arguing he is scum. I dont see a final "I think Nul is X" though. Which is countered by....

Yes, I have seen town-kyle. In fact, in the very first game I played, which was offsite. He got wagoned pretty close to a lynch on D1 for similar play that I've seen out of him as scum.
And I could have voted them, but I didn't, and I haven't, because I do not feel they are scum. Of course, this might change at a later date.

If you think they arent scum why are you giving reasons that they can be scum?

Not posting very often [wolf], little content when posting, bad reason for voting Datadanne, wagoned DocPotter. Caught my eye with his early posting and I feel this guy is scum from what I've read.

Why him over the other lurkers in the game? Why is his data vote bad? (hint it isnt)

It was because he was active lurking, not posting much and when he did post most of the time it wasn't saying much.
...
Well damn. Rereading the thread again his posts actually make a lot of sense.
I have no excuse for my vote on wolf. I misread his posts :/ Go ahead, lynch me for it. I dare you.
He's still not posting that often regardless. Whatever.

... I really dont get you a lot of the time. Remind me to comment on this when the game is over.

He wasnt the only one 'active lurking' if you really want to call it that. You are backing down here on your vote of him, while still trying to somewhat justify it. If you think you are wrong you think you are wrong. Ive pulled huge turns in games before when I realized something that I haddent earlier or something made me change my mind about a read. It happens.

He goes from wanting wolf lynched in part due to wagoning DP to wanting DP lynched, but still wanting wolf lynched... I know he says he wasnt sure at first, but this is a sub 24-hour turnaround

And the reasons I gave on DocPotter were partly influenced by posts he had made in the last 24 hours. Got a problem with that?[/quote]

Provide examples?

For now, my vote stays. If both are scum, then I don't have any reason to switch from one to the other.

Oh and more reasoning to shuffle back to a SD lynch

Actually, a reason why I'm not going to jump off the DP wagon yet. Like I said, I think both are scum together. It's kinda setting up lynches in advance but the logical connections I've made between them seem to hold up. I don't see why you'd want to criticize me for building an argument that I feel links them as scum. If you don't agree with it then I'm not going to care but if you call me out for using logic to try and catch scum I'm not sure you're even playing the right game here.
Hmm, I don't even remember if I ever voted syke .-. I don't think I have.[/quote]


Well... maybe in part because im pretty sure that SD is town. Which does mean I need to reevaluate something I just realized, but will do that later. Which of DP and SD do you think are more scum and why

[LlamaFluff]

You're not exactly convincing anybody animorpherv. Either you got a case or you don't. If you do, you're wasting everyone's time by not saying it to evaluate both sides. If you don't you're just scum and we should vote you now.

Sorry, ani is probably town

[LlamaFluff]

You're not exactly convincing anybody animorpherv. Either you got a case or you don't. If you do, you're wasting everyone's time by not saying it to evaluate both sides. If you don't you're just scum and we should vote you now.

Sorry, ani is probably town

Wait, someone said I was

town????

This must be the wrong game.

There are so many "only ifs" that yes. You are town. And so is syke, and fish, and whoever SSK is now, and a few others that I am probably forgetting. If this goes on much longer I can just reverse engineer all of my cases.

Right now though we lynch Parama

[LlamaFluff]

Right now though we lynch Parama

I can assure you that today will not end with a lynch of me, though if you want to wagon me for a bit go ahead and do it.

Will do.

And yes SD I am busy right now. Im in college so it fluxuates, have midterms thursday and friday this week. Then structures the following, but the friday midterm is a cakewalk class and structures im coasting in so its all good.

We need a deadline to force us to do something

[LlamaFluff]

On that note: LlamaFluff: what do you think of Bogre's explanation for his quote and my rebuttal of said stance?

Its still confusing to me, but I think that I do understand the point that he is attempting to make. Nothing there really makes me think he is scum. I like the Parama lynch a whole lot better, and I still really dislike the SD lynch.

[LlamaFluff]

@Llama: do you promise that this isn't some trick to try to pull a no-lynch? ... I can't believe you did that to me :(

This isnt a trick. Besides, if that worked at least two scum would of been confirmed guilty. Who would of expected a basically dead game would get a burst of activity the day of deadline

[LlamaFluff]

...not provided reasoning? Really?

I know I can be persuasive at times but there has to be something there if people are wagoning you. Since when is changing a suspicion a scumtell too?

[LlamaFluff]

...not provided reasoning? Really?

I know I can be persuasive at times but there has to be something there if people are wagoning you. Since when is changing a suspicion a scumtell too?

You provided reason initially, but since then have not commented on anything I've posted, instead just constantly urging people to vote me.

You are next to respond I think... as far as I can tell you never responded to my last post on you.

Changing suspicion isn't a scumtell. I never said it was.

You are sure trying to make it look like aggressively pushing two different people is

The problem is, 1. everyone seems to follow what you say in this game, so 2. you're switching suspicions often and ending up confusing the town and leading them in circles.

Well first off 1 isnt a tell, its just an attempt to make it look like you have something on me. 2 on the other hand is false. I started with a small push on SD, moved to the better DP wagon, and am now getting you lynched. Is this a case or frustration venting?

I honestly don't like how so many people seem to follow your every move this game, regardless of how good the case is or not.

I have the natural ability to conjuer up large ammount of votes. This again isnt a tell though

Deadline is eminent, we need to get a serious wagon going now

[LlamaFluff]

syke is still town no matter how serious he thinks his wagon was

[LlamaFluff]

Claim time

[LlamaFluff]

Claim full flavor. I highly doubt your role just says "Greek Cop" and thats it. Do you get guilty/innocent? Greek/not greek? Are you checking to see if a player is of greek decent or is greek mafia?

[LlamaFluff]

Flavor is more of the "why" behind your role, not the role itself.

[LlamaFluff]

unvote

I think that claiming a faction specific cop isnt something that scum would do in this game. Im betting on a higher chance of there being no Greek mafia (see bastard mod game) then Parama being scum. Too many major pitfalls for scum to make that claim.

Need to do a little reading to see where I need to move my vote first.

[LlamaFluff]

I would actually like a Anon quicklynch is we can get one. Sadly im not too sure we can have one happen, be sure to look into one tomorrow though. The reasoning is clear if you read him.

Vote Anon

I will move my vote to DP to stop a sykedoc lynch if necessary. I also will be able to make at least one post before deadline so no worries.

[LlamaFluff]

If he claimed just cop I would of lynched him. Greek Cop sounds real to me, if later only one faction is revealed we lynch him then.

Getting slap-dash case on anon up now

[LlamaFluff]

Anon has been the biggest proponent of the SD-meta case. At times he starts expanding the case out, but it makes circles back to "It matches his SK meta". Making a case primarily on meta is bad, but making it on SK meta (which is neither town or scum, very very different) is very wrong. Ive never played as SK, but have played as scum replacing in D4 when all my partners were dead with about 12 alive. It was not the same as playing standard scum, likely closer to playing as SK.

Now, he really hasnt done ANYTHING this game expect say we should lynch SD. He went away for a bit, lurked, and now we are at this stage of the game where he has given no opinions on most things (charter-scum alt?) and still just have him repeting that we should lynch SD

[LlamaFluff]

A sk meta is very similar to a mafia meta in what reluctance to express opinions/reads/suspicions relate. It IS a scumtell, Period. Second, I thought Id let you know that not every person in this site plays as you, so you definitely cant apply how you play to how others play. And for the 1000000000000th time in a row, I think sykedoc is scum not ONLY for his meta, which is just a small part of the case brought against him.

I think people do play significantly different as SK and mafia and town for that matter. Very few people can be meta'ed with success. Ive been around for almost two years and there are only a handful of people who I can get a meta read on.

Now, you HAVE said that the case isnt purely meta, but you bring it up a whole lot. Meta is something that im fine with supplementing a case with, ive done it a few times. However, its not something that should be as big of a case that you are making it.

I just dont see SD as scum here. The way he has been playing just reads town to me, especially how he is arguing his wagon now.

Also, would like to let you know that its a TOTAL LIE that I havent done anything in the game. Yeah, basically Im pushing the case I think gives more likeliness of finding scum, but I also have expressed opinions of Parama, fishy, tubby and you. So check again that isolation powers of yours.

Well... I consider saying "X is town" not mentioning other players. When you start arguing an alignment with another person then you are taking stances.

Unvote
Vote DocPotter

See previous case.

I dont want Parama lynched, I dont want SD lynched. This is an easy enough vote.

[LlamaFluff]

I'd support a DeathNote lynch.

I would be completely down for this actually.

RBT not quite as much due to kyle wanting DP lynched early

[LlamaFluff]

And thats a good point

[LlamaFluff]

unvote
Vote RBT

[LlamaFluff]

Wait....

This case is built on META?

Unvote

Filthy, filthy people.

See thats what ive been saying but about a third of the game wont listen

[LlamaFluff]

Seriously now. I'm only on page 11 and I feel dirty for placing that vote.

Unbelivable.

However, I have a winner. Lets do it and do it fast.

Vote: CSL

He's in this game?

[LlamaFluff]

Well people lurk to much then. I saw nothing wrong with who he replaced though, and if we are going to have a runoff against people who have replaced people I had slight town reads on, im keeping my vote.

RBT is now in a "yeah I though he was town, but also an eventual mislynch so I voted him" defense. Which is wrong. I have enough experience in complaining about a lynch to stop it from happening. You never vote a town read.

[LlamaFluff]

@Spy - CSL is useless, I did have a slight town read on his predicessor though. Im going to assume that someone realizes useless people are the best to investigate since scum will never kill them then get stuck bumping off confirmed useless town or unconfrimed.

RBT is still the lynch. We will deal with CSL later.

[LlamaFluff]

@Spy - CSL is useless, I did have a slight town read on his predicessor though. Im going to assume that someone realizes useless people are the best to investigate since scum will never kill them then get stuck bumping off confirmed useless town or unconfrimed.

RBT is still the lynch. We will deal with CSL later.

I dont like how this looks like directing a PR. Useless people are what vig is for, right?

Its just giving a reason that I dont think we should be lynching him today. There are some people I dont mind policy lynching, but this isnt the time or place to do it. There also are better alternatives, if nothing else wait untill we have a few dead scum and see if he ties to them.

[LlamaFluff]

unvote

for all practical purposes I am still voting RBT

[LlamaFluff]

talk about right on queue

[LlamaFluff]

UNVOTE;VOTE:FFFF

Now this is a wagon I can really get behind.

Unless you role is "Wagon I can really get behind" something is missing from this post

[LlamaFluff]

Im going to wait for the mod to post before I try and figure out exactly whats going on here.

[LlamaFluff]

Yes because weve never heard of a town RBer before...

Vote DeathNote

I still like this more then the CSL one. Will flesh it out more later though, I have class in about 20 minutes

[LlamaFluff]

I am for not lynching on of the post restriction people, at least for right now. The reason is because it draws so much attention. I don't know if scum would want that much attention to fake post restriction so if they are scum, I would like a better reason then something that a bastard mod would place on them.

Very nice fence sit to start. He entertains the idea of a policy lynch of PRed players, WIFOMs around it, then seems to ask them to explain their PR more then "I got one". Almost sounds like he suggested they chose to have that PR.

Syk gained votes because of his attempt to active lurk. He stated early on that he had no reads yet and thus Llama pressured him to actually scum hunt. After a brief debate he finally posted a LoS, not a simply "Such-and-such is scummy" but a List of Suspicion! Thats when pressure rose and the meta case was brought up. Now he spams three posts at a time looking like scum caught on L-1 when he is still has at least 8 more votes to go.

Using 'overdefensive' is almost enough to justify a lynch to start, but posting a LoS when pressured to put anything up seems to be the entirety of the wagon here. Also DN is also FoSing DP here, so has a foot in both of the wagons.

I don't want to lynch Prama. Not because I think he is town, but I think other people are more likely scum. Not to mention, people who say "Fine then lynch me" don't tend to encourage my vote on day 1 or 2.

Justifying a future vote for Parama as he is "not town", just a way of saying I think Parama, SD and DP are scum without saying it blatantly.

Why do the wagons keep switching around? Can we just lynch one person and get done with it

The last time DN posted anything close to a case was the 3rd, at this point he just seems to be looking for the day to end.

[LlamaFluff]

We arent lynching Spy right now. Ive got pretty good at calling him when he is scum by day three with a few tells and so far he is reading town.

[LlamaFluff]

Okay. Should we test ani powers?

lol no

we can test him tomorrow though

[LlamaFluff]

Okay. Should we test ani powers?

lol no

we can test him tomorrow though

What do you think of sykedoc's voting habits?

Could be worse, but he is town so it doesnt matter

I also am not voting CSL. Pretty sure he is town.

[LlamaFluff]

CSL is still town. We really should lynch DN instead

[LlamaFluff]

Then vote him. I would rather add 5 pages to the day to get a scum lynch then to just go for the town-VI lynch

[LlamaFluff]

vote Deathnote

He still is scum

[LlamaFluff]

vote Deathnote

He still is scum

You don't play many games with me then. I am not scum.

I wonder if having your face burnt off and being stabbed meant he was targeted by two people.

I would say yes that means he two people killed him

[LlamaFluff]

Care to explain your vote?

Just resorting my vote from day 1

Oh yeah this is a really bad spot to have your vote btw. Remember that was who CSL wanted dead pre-CSL wagon. Also SD was one of the first ones on the CSL wagon.

Syke is actually just about the least likely player out there to be a partner to CSL

[LlamaFluff]

I was going to go with SD just being massively obvious not-american, and with scummy people who are possible CSL partners existing, we lynch them

[LlamaFluff]

Syke gets more bonus points for that avatar. Anyone else who can identify where it comes from also gets those points.

[LlamaFluff]

sick'em ani

[LlamaFluff]

This is important, are you the "Anti Russian Insane Cop" or the "Russian Insane Cop"

[LlamaFluff]

Then im officially lost as what to do next

[LlamaFluff]

And now i'm interested in llama's new line of questioning.

Parama had claimed specifically anti-greek Mafia cop. The "anti" and "mafia" are not all that common in cop roles, even specific faction ones.

Was just a hope that PI would confirm a lying cop without realizing it.

[LlamaFluff]

@Mae - Also three mafia-scum groups is rare, its even up in the air if there are three anti-town killing groups (scum-scum-SK as opposed to scum-scum/SK-vig) or not after the Anon death. Fishy got killed by two anti-town factions though so there are at least two.

[LlamaFluff]

unvote

this has potential to be a busy week, but friday should be a catchup day. First glance I would back Pom lynch over FFFF lynch.

[LlamaFluff]

@Spy - I petition RV to join unbreakable, he is in my top 5-non CSL partner, argueably top 3 (not to mention one of your unbreakables surprises me but im not getting into that right now). Mae only gets there if FFFF flips scum. Untill then just gets the "weak town read" stamp.

[LlamaFluff]

Going back and chronicaling Poms suspicions, its interesting to see what comes up. A lot of the suspicions are confusing to me.

Starts with a SD wagon that mostly hinges on what others have said and 'overdefensiveness' which people using is one of my big irks. This suspicion drifts off later to eventually be replaced by a Nul vote for (as far as I can tell) wagoning DP. Next LoS though she puts out has DP as the second most likely scum.

Soon enough the vote is back on SD, despite SD not being on the most recent three person LoS. Nul, DP and RGHP are no longer mentioned. Parama becomes a popular subject soon, and becomes FoS worthy. So far Pom has expressed quite a bit of support for every popular wagon, and most semi-popular ones. This includes the ensuing RBT wagon, but interestingly enough, not the CSL one.

Vote Pom

A look at voting history here should be enough to make this lynch a priority to FFFF

[LlamaFluff]

Obviously, if I am not removed from the game, you all lynch me as scum/liar tomorrow. Sound like a plan?

No

[LlamaFluff]

May I ask what town loses by following my plan, Llamafluff? Besides MyMilkedEek? I have no idea what he is, just that I would have gotten his role if he died by any other means except me lynching him.

We lynch MME, so he is dead. You leave the game, so there go two players. We get hit with three more deaths at night so then we lose five players just to get rid of the lyncher.

If someone can completely clear MME they need to ASAP. Confirmed-town MME with backup UK would be awesome.

Now later in the game we can take advantage of this if ani is alive (we have him vig MME making you confirmed town/scum). This is more of a last ditch effort though then anything else. You are our MME-backup now though, if you dont want to post much I cant blame you.

[LlamaFluff]

So now we lynch MME?
Or we shoot again?

No, and no

we just lynch Pom here

[LlamaFluff]

But why do we want EITHER dead?

Not 100% sure on FFF, but Pom is for support every single lynch that has gathered any speed or shown signs of possibly gathering speed

[LlamaFluff]

And your case on Pom is she's a lurker?

No. The case on Pom is that she has supported EVERY single lynch that has become remotely popular (SD, DP, Parama, DN, RBT, Anon all off the top of my head). That basically anyone who has had more then two or three votes EXCEPT for CSL.

They are partners. This is simple enough.

[LlamaFluff]

No. The case on Pom is that she has supported EVERY single lynch that has become remotely popular (SD, DP, Parama, DN, RBT, Anon all off the top of my head). That basically anyone who has had more then two or three votes EXCEPT for CSL.

They are partners. This is simple enough.

That's

your

case LF. I was asking FFFF for his. Why are you defending him?

Now, I do agree that's scummy. Can't ani shoot her?

Im 'defending' him because I want Pom lynched instead of him. Ani isnt shooting him because if Pom is VT he loses his role.

[LlamaFluff]

I though Pom was on Anon at one point with an FoS, that was on Bogre though.

None of her votes were really a new wagon, most were mid to late in a wagon stage however. Just about every suspicion just kept getting dropped when a new wagon came around.

[LlamaFluff]

I'd rather have us not lynch nor kill me, thank you very much.

We arent going to for a very long time if at all. I would leave this whole situation to scum since if you are town creates a backup confirmed town after you die.

[LlamaFluff]

We really should lynch Pom over FFFF... persistance is futile!

Not voters need to vote too

[LlamaFluff]

You know LF, you are going to look like hell if FFFF flips scum, ne?

Yep, im banking quite a bit on Pom being more likely scum

[LlamaFluff]

Also FFFF should be claiming any abilities

[LlamaFluff]

@FFFF - What happens if you get shot?

@ani - You shoot right now, you get lynched.

[LlamaFluff]

Uhhh, no. If you're so keen on shooting:
- yourself

- kitten

- no one

fixed that for you

Also with the latest addition to the FFFF claim, im doubting it. Believed it up to the PR, miller and vengeful part. Double vengeful is pushing it. If people want me to I will put first vote on as long as Pom is guarenteed to put the last vote on.

[LlamaFluff]

That mod response makes me thing this vengeful this is sort of BS

[LlamaFluff]

@DP - I should know if Spy is scum tomorrow. Ive consistantly gotten good reads on him but it takes a few days.

[LlamaFluff]

1853?

But yeah, im not really supporting him. Im just saying I can tell soon enough so we just have Pom hammer FFFF today (then lynch Pom tomorrow when the PR-miller-double-vengeful claim is proven false).

[LlamaFluff]

Just incase Pom is hammering. Even if we need to have the mod prod her after we post a big red message telling her to hammer

[LlamaFluff]

Give ani like 2-3 more shots and then vanilla him.

And if im not here, this means he kills claimed vanilla/PR then tries to kill again

[LlamaFluff]

Lynch pom-rep tomorrow.

Also if im here tomorrow I should be able to tell you with high accuracy is Spy is scum or not. Each passing night I zero in on this read.

[LlamaFluff]

Vote Pom

[LlamaFluff]

Why hasnt Pom been shot yet?

[LlamaFluff]

Going back and chronicaling Poms suspicions, its interesting to see what comes up. A lot of the suspicions are confusing to me.

Starts with a SD wagon that mostly hinges on what others have said and 'overdefensiveness' which people using is one of my big irks. This suspicion drifts off later to eventually be replaced by a Nul vote for (as far as I can tell) wagoning DP. Next LoS though she puts out has DP as the second most likely scum.

Soon enough the vote is back on SD, despite SD not being on the most recent three person LoS. Nul, DP and RGHP are no longer mentioned. Parama becomes a popular subject soon, and becomes FoS worthy. So far Pom has expressed quite a bit of support for every popular wagon, and most semi-popular ones. This includes the ensuing RBT wagon, but interestingly enough, not the CSL one.

Vote Pom

A look at voting history here should be enough to make this lynch a priority to FFFF

[LlamaFluff]

Pom needs to be shot still, then someone else untill a misfire happens, then one more attempt. Then someone needs to be shot again tomorrow to make sure everything is lining up right about the claim.

[LlamaFluff]

Pom needs to be shot still, then someone else untill a misfire happens,

then one more attempt. Then someone needs to be shot again tomorrow to make sure everything is lining up right about the claim.

I think Pom's a VT, but I have no idea why, so I'd lose the ability.

Also, if misfre = VT, I'd lose my ability.

Right, if you lose your ability though you still are trying to shoot again, and the next day. Lets us be sure you arent scum/third party killing role lying just a bit.

[LlamaFluff]

Shoot her

[LlamaFluff]

Shoot her

And I assume I get lynched if I don't?

Honestly, I'm not surpirsed. This has turned into "Force the vig to shoot several times every day when he said he only wants to shoot once". I've been used gthis entire time.

If I say yes will you shoot?

Also this is just "use the vig to get two lynches a day"

[LlamaFluff]

unvote
vote PosionIvy

[LlamaFluff]

unvote

@ani

- Kill PosionIvy

[LlamaFluff]

Actually direct that kill back at pom.

I forgot that after I pushed on her for including a sanity in her claim she came back with the following.

I am the Anti Russian Mafia Cop.

[LlamaFluff]

Before I do anything

anyone else want me to kill Posion Ivy???

I did but now I dont because she was making a sanity assumption.

You need to kill Pom.

[LlamaFluff]

@PI:

I learn from my mistakes. That's why I'm not taking 1 person as an entire force to kill. Also, there's nothing solid on Pom, so I'm going to call Pom VT untill I see otherwise.

Does four or five players voting her count?

[LlamaFluff]

Unless I missed something. Was the miller you viewed SPECIFICALLY a Russian miller or...?

Im guessing neither... SSK claimed miller (just miller) and came up inno. DP also has come up inno. Unless SSK would really come up scum to Russian Cop, PI is most likely niave, second most likely is insane and DP is scum, but thats a very very small chance. I would say null read

[LlamaFluff]

Unless I missed something. Was the miller you viewed SPECIFICALLY a Russian miller or...?

Im guessing neither... SSK claimed miller (just miller) and came up inno. DP also has come up inno. Unless SSK would really come up scum to Russian Cop, PI is most likely niave, second most likely is insane and DP is scum, but thats a very very small chance. I would say null read

Naive isn't exactly MOST likely. PI is a

russian mafia

cop. FeFiFoFum,

who SSK USED TO BE

, is a

Greek Mafiate!

Doc Potter was a vanilla, CLEARLY not Russian mafia.

Poison Ivy, you may very well be a sane cop. I wouldn't BET on it but it's entirely possible.

See there getting my docs messed up. Thought it was SD who got killed and not DP. Yeah its either naive or sane then.

I still think nothing is going to happen untill Pom gets lynched/vigged. So would just like to get that one over with

[LlamaFluff]

Also, @LF, I cunt 3 extra, judging from the vote count.

Well im just not voting so we dont accidently lynch her before you shoot, so thats four. Is that a "yes I will shoot if we get to X"?

Also its funny, not offensive. I get more offended when things are directed at others then directed at me.

[LlamaFluff]

Lets try this

@all - Who doesnt want Pom vigged? Who thinks she is town?

[LlamaFluff]

Please kill pom now... please?

@Mae - Are you miller to all cops or only to specific factional and why?

[LlamaFluff]

Assuming this is 3:3:1 for anti-town, im pretty sure its Pom, Zor and the last one depends on what factions they belong to.

There is ONE thing that is really bugging me though that may exist and why I REALLY want ani to lose his PR and at the very least shoot again today.

[LlamaFluff]

I really dont know what more I can say here except that Pom needs to be lynched/vigged. Ive laid out the case more then once, no one seems against it. More or less waiting now.

[LlamaFluff]

well at least I have had two scum reads right now, going to try and look at votecounts over the next few days

[LlamaFluff]

.... Well, HUH.

LlamaFluff: Claim

UK, you around? Need to bounce something by someone because well.

Vanilla, never had any actions, anything given, talked to anyone etc etc

[LlamaFluff]

@Starbuck - I actually still like RV for town unless this is 4:4:1. I had him as either Greek or town, and at this point im willing to say just town.

[LlamaFluff]

No we are not machine gunning the PRs, for the most part they are stronger town reads then the VT players to me.

sykedoc is still town
PI can possibly be american but is no chance of beeing greek
RF is a bit more borderline but ive had him leaning town this entire game so disagree with a vig there

Not quite sure who I want lynch off the top of my head instead, but I dont like killing the above three. I would put money on all three town before a 2:1 split

[LlamaFluff]

One would HOPE that if they happened simultaneously they'd be resolved simultaneously.

Someone could, theoretically, ask the mod what would happen in that situation.

I dont think they should/would, even though it all occurs in the same post, its not resolving at the same time. If you went for A, B, C they die in that order, A, B, C. If B was lying and was VT, you wouldnt have C die. Same merit if B dying fullfilled a win condition, game should be over.

That doesnt matter though because we arent chaingunning the PRs

[LlamaFluff]

@LLama:

I agree. Of course *shh* you're my #1 for Russian if they existed with one of them sooooo. ;)

The only other absolute paranoia I have is in regards to Ray being a backup SK that I can't even quantify.

Да, мой крестный отец

Also dont worry, I have a similar paranoia that you are American mostly given a mix of that I had in my notes you and Kai were masons/lovers and CSL was a VI-ish lynch that I see a lot of merit in being a good bus. Was wishing that one of Pom-Zor was going to be American so I could get over the paranoia

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I like UK and all but I dont get why we went through with this lynch

[LlamaFluff]

Barring night actions changing anything drastic I'm assuming one left. My gut / analysis says its in the list of vanilla / no PR's.

If we see another SK kill I'd bet on it being one of our power roles.

See I was going to say all anti-town roles are on the jester wagon. Nothing more appitizing then a non-scum lynch that has some town support

[LlamaFluff]

I'll be honest. If we have a russian mafia it's SpyreX and ani. It's a team of two because ani is so powerful.

Im a little nervous of that because I normally get a very strong read on spy and I dont think ive ever been wrong on it. This time im reading town but just have a few reservations that I cant get over despite him hitting all the towntells that I look for with him.

Maybe its because its multiple scum groups which has a history of failure for me.

[LlamaFluff]

Secret - After about page 10 I never translated anything said in French or Portugeese

At least I was right about the few things I was pushing hard near the end, even if all my early game scum reads were wrong. Was getting good town reads (expect mae who I though was town) though.

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(after suggesting the unbreakable, even if it did cross my mind that you might be scum for other things, I remembered that you started the alliance and you were cleared in my mind because of that).

Actually doing that combined with a few different moves is what me pretty sure that Spy was town, there is a three part thing that when he has done it he is always town. When he goes against a part he is scum. This one was just wierd cause a part never showed up either way, and ive seen him actively act on it in every other game.

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I'll admit being a little lost there Llama - I've only pulled this stunt a couple times and its happened when I've found a handful of towns and for whatever reason lost for scum.

im not going to hand over my secret stash of spy scum/town tells that easily

[LlamaFluff]

Oh. Remembered something.

... I really dont get you a lot of the time. Remind me to comment on this when the game is over.

You asked me to remind you ;)

You were pulling one of those "yes you are right" moves in response to what I was pushing you on which I can never really understand people doing as town. I just didnt know what to do after that.

also sykedoc total scumbaggo, just got a town win condition.

Nah, we was really obviously town. I just need to get better at explaining those reads instead of just shifting wagons away from those players though.