Mini 912 - Little Golden Mafia (OVER)

[DedicatedScribe]

/confirm

[DedicatedScribe]

really? 11/12? This'll probably take a while

[DedicatedScribe]

we may have to revote later, but whatevs.

vote Phlight

cool story brah

[DedicatedScribe]

Vote: chamber.

I'm expecting it to be a royal pain to try to figure out Mr. "Cases are scummy"'s reasons for voting anyone.

Hey, Phlight, could y'all sign your posts so that the rest of us can tell who's saying what?

I could, but why would I? We share the same role. We're likely to share the same opinions (if there's a serious divergence of opinion, I may say something like "one of us thinks X and the other thinks Y") since we can discuss the game privately as much as we want. I don't think there's any need to sign posts, and I like confusing people.

That said, we have distinctly different voices a lot of the time, so you'll probably be able to tell us apart somewhat.

its funner this way. But I see it as a scumtell.

Why would you want to confuse people...UNLESS YOU WERE SCUM???

[DedicatedScribe]

First off, you said you liked confusing people. Is this protown?

Secondly, you're kinda assuming things there. Most importantly, you are assuming that there is no possible way that I could be joking, trying to quickly end the RVS, or be trying to get you to make a signature at the end of your hydra-posts.

[DedicatedScribe]

ah, ur ignoring mine now.

This confusion allows for you to make excuses.

[DedicatedScribe]

let's go back.

Why can't you sig your posts again?

[DedicatedScribe]

if that's how it's gonna be ^^

But it doesnt seem if there's been enough to end the RVS.

The reason you voted for me was not suitable. I already posted why.

[DedicatedScribe]

Omg

Vote: Limerickx

Hai.

****

limerickx is here.

vote limerickx

[DedicatedScribe]

A) Phlight, can you explain the sig on your posts, multiple player/personality thing? I think I missed something.

B)

Vote : MacavityLock

, wouldn't want to be in a deadlock with him.

unvote; vote peanutman

Peanuts are meant for being broken open to find all the treats inside. They're nature's pinata.

[DedicatedScribe]

if that's how it's gonna be ^^

But it doesnt seem if there's been enough to end the RVS.

The reason you voted for me was not suitable. I already posted why.

You mean a mild argument where very few people isn't enough to end the random voting stage? Taking sides would certainly be a nice means to quickly leave this part of the game behind. Or are you of the notion that arbitrary votes would be a better continuation of the game? I don't understand why you appear to be opposed to leaving the RVS.

No I mean why you don't sig your hydra posts because you like confusing people.

Everything I've done to this point has been to end the RVS more quickly and effectively.

But arguing about the ethics of hydras and whether they should sig...won't really bring much to the table.

Macavity, I want more info.

[DedicatedScribe]

I think the whole plight hydra situation depends on the nature of the way they post, if they just log on individually and post without consulting each other then with two quite possibly different opinions there's a good chance Plight's posts are going to be riddled with inconsistencies, which means we're not going to be sure if it's because plight is scum or just the nature of the hydra.

If however they consult with each other before each post, and point out in the thread when they disagree on something then I think it would be fine. It's only the second page so it's kind of hard to say either way.

@Plight: with regards to what I've said could you clear up the way you two will be posting?

So whatever messups they make, unless they say beforehand its bcuz they're hydras, we can take it as a scumtell.

[DedicatedScribe]

Hi, /confirm since I never did so before.

First, I would like to say

FoS:MacavityLock

This is a serious FoS
Now, arguing about the hydra has distracted us from scum hunting already and it's only page 3, so let's end this.

Phlight will not be signing his post because doing so opens up the possibility to more easily say that "X said ___ which was not endorsed by Y, so ___ is not a scum tell because X is just a bad player" If Phlight does not sign his post, he is showing that he is taking full responsibility of ALL post that he post and we can lynch him on any and all valid scumtells. In short, treat hydras like you would if they were a single person. Phlight is a "him" not a "they". All scumtells are scumtells. All bad plays are bad plays. Anyone saying otherwise I'll assume is trying to distract the town with pointless arguement.

Now for Dedicated Scribe,

No I mean why you don't sig your hydra posts because you like confusing people.

A. Everything I've done to this point has been to end the RVS more quickly and effectively.

B. But arguing about the ethics of hydras and whether they should sig...won't really bring much to the table.

Macavity, I want more info.

bolding and lettering were done by Panzerjager

Bolded A and Bolded B contradict each other. Everything you have done can be summed up as a Random vote and argueing with Phlight about having him sign his post. So if B states that we won't be going anywhere if we argue about signing post and A states that all you have been doing is trying to get us out of RVS, then you are clearly trying to drag us into pointless conversation.

Also why were you in such a hurry to get us out of Random Voting Stage?

For the record, I agree with what Phlight was saying about the fence sitting in the post that fired off the debate and I really can't put it better than he did.

This is more than enough for me to

Vote: DedicatedScribe

Obviously that was me trying to rethink the situation. I was slightly annoyed that the RVS was still continuing after our discussion on hydras took place, so I decided to try and do something else to bring up another RVS-ending convo. But now we have ended the RVS, thanks to a "useless convo".

This is because we moved from a useless convo to determining whether this useless convo was a scumtell. I was afraid that the hydra thing had not yet ended the RVS, so I just randomly bandwagoned.

The RVS exists to end. If we spent the entire day in RVS, nothing would happen. Something must happen to end it.

[DedicatedScribe]

Pretty sure that explains everything.

Also, that fence sitting thing is entirely situational, and is not a scumtell.

You have assume the reasons why I did it, and then whether I was scum and did it.

[DedicatedScribe]

Dude, 80% of mafia is deducting why someone would do something, or, in short, make assumptions.

i thought someone would say this. Ofc you have to make assumptions to play mafia, but not you don't base lynches on wild, unlikely assumptions. You base them on assumptions that are likely to be true.

Not really concerned about ending the RVS asap, except that it's all there is to do, except to participate in it. I'd rather my meta be for striving to end the RVS, since I don't like it.

The RVS is meant to be ended. The faster it ends, the better. Why make it last longer than it needs to?

[DedicatedScribe]

I think its good that the RVS is over, even if you guys are voting for town. A speedlynch doesnt seem likely, and I think I can defend myself if you guys will allow.

TNM, that wasnt a contradiction at all. There were few votes on me att of that post. I'm not sure i know what precursor means, but if I'm right, then I don't see how that sets up a precursor. It's more of stating fact. I didn't say "if they make a contradiction w/o blah blah, we lynch them", but instead "we can take it as a scumtell". And wouldn't we?

Panzerjager, I tend to say that things aren't likely unless they are going to occur or are true. What do I do if all you do is assume the wrong things about my posts? All I can say is "No, I was doing this in order to..."

[DedicatedScribe]

TNM, that wasnt a contradiction at all. There were few votes on me att of that post.

How do the votes on you have anything to do with the contradiction? The two statements are a contradiction regardless, what I was trying to say was that the first statement where you said you didn't think there was enough to end the RVS, that was right after Phlight voted you, which makes it look as if you're all for continuing the RVS if the first non-random serious vote is on you.

I'm not sure i know what precursor means, but if I'm right, then I don't see how that sets up a precursor. It's more of stating fact. I didn't say "if they make a contradiction w/o blah blah, we lynch them", but instead "we can take it as a scumtell". And wouldn't we?

But I believe the fact to be "we can take it as a POSSIBLE scumtell". After reading what you said again perhaps you meant the same thing by saying "can". Is this what you meant? Basically my point is that Phlight could still make inconsistencies as town as a result of two different people posting under the one name, so if we just take every inconsistency he says as a scumtell then it could result in a mislynch. Of course we can't ignore inconsistencies from him just because he's a hydra but I think it would be pretty careless to just go "theres an inconsistency, let's lynch him" which is what I thought you were more or less hinting we could do. Maybe it was just a problem with semantics, if not though I'd be happy to explain this further.

With all that in mind, this post worries me:

I think the whole plight hydra situation depends on the nature of the way they post, if they just log on individually and post without consulting each other then with two quite possibly different opinions there's a good chance Plight's posts are going to be riddled with inconsistencies, which means we're not going to be sure if it's because plight is scum or just the nature of the hydra.

If however they consult with each other before each post, and point out in the thread when they disagree on something then I think it would be fine. It's only the second page so it's kind of hard to say either way.

@Plight: with regards to what I've said could you clear up the way you two will be posting?

So whatever messups they make, unless they say beforehand its bcuz they're hydras, we can take it as a scumtell.

This seems as if DS is setting up the precurser for that possible mislynch.

Or stating the obvious? Do you disagree that if Plight makes a contradiction, even if only resulting from using a hydra, that we can take it as a scumtell?

See my above response to DS, I agree if by that you mean we can take it as a possible scumtell.

I also don't like this contradiction:

But it doesnt seem if there's been enough to end the RVS.

The RVS is meant to be ended. The faster it ends, the better. Why make it last longer than it needs to?

So it's alright to end the RVS, as long as it's not you being voted for? Care to explain that DS?

I don't see how this is a contradiction, and I also don't see how its saying what you claimed.

Do you honestly not see that contradiction? In the first statement he is saying that the RVS needs to go for longer (which is after the first real vote, on him) and in the second he is saying that RVS should be ended as quickly as possible, and "why make it last longer than it needs to?" That's a contradiction, he has changed his opinion on something in order to suit the situation. He's clearly not happy for the RVS to end with the only serious vote on him, and then later he says that he thinks the RVS should be ended quickly in order to defend the accusations from Panzer.

Limerick, I picked up on totallynotmafia's comments as well.

Well if you are town I hope that you will put the same effort into avoiding inconsistencies as you would if you were scum, otherwise I can see it as being a disadvantage for the rest of us because of the greater potential of you being mislynched. Honestly though if I didn't know already, so far I wouldn't be able to tell you're a hydra.

This it total fluff to me. Wouldn't you want every town member to avoid inconsistencies? And how is a hydra at a greater potential of being mislynched?

Yes, but don't you agree that two people, with two different brains, and two different opinions, posting under the one name are more likely to present inconsistencies than anyone else? And that they would go to more effort to avoid these inconsistencies as mafia rather than town? These are the reasons that if Phlight is lazy as town he is more likely to be mislynched, judging from his posts so far I don't think that he will be lazy about it though.

This seems as if DS is setting up the precurser for that possible mislynch.

Wasn't DS just saying what a few others have already said? That basically being a hydra is not an excuse.

See my above response to DS. I'm happy to drop the phlight discussion as long as we're all on the same page. Mainly just so I never have to say "inconsistency" again.

Yeah, I just made a post in my newbie game why I think inactivity hurts the town, I'm guessing I don't have to outline that here.

I also find this hypocritical. You post to make a point about inactivity without contributing anything new.
I try to play this game in a way that all my posts contribute to the discussion in one-way or another. Stating that there's inactivity and that's it not helpful for the town in a non-newb game doesn't seem productive to me. If things are dead, re-read the thread, post new questions, follow up on leads however slim they may be. But don't post about inactivity while essentially being inactive in the same breath.

How is that hypocritical when the last substantial post before that was made by me? And what is the length of time the thread has to be inactive before you're allowed to comment on it?

It's NOT a contradiction. I did NOT say that the RVS needs to go on longer; I said it seems the RVS has yet to end. Random votes were still occurring, despite the serious vote. I thought everyone might ignore the whole conflict and keep random voting. I also considered that maybe we'd end up in a stupid argument about whether hydras should sig their posts.

I'm really confused atm with all the attacks.
So far, it seems people think
* I'm trying to set up mislynches (I'm not. How do I explain this?)
* I made a contradiction. (I didn't. I'll try to make it more clear as we go on.)

Is this right?

I don't see why I need to claim just yet. Why do you think so?

I don't regret any of my actions so far, except maybe the wording of my posts. We've got a lot of content, nonetheless. I'll look through it when I have time.

[DedicatedScribe]

This is because we moved from a useless convo to determining whether this useless convo was a scumtell. I was afraid that the hydra thing had not yet ended the RVS, so I just randomly bandwagoned.

Can I ask how is randomly bandwagoning ever good? How would it bring a quicker end to the RVS?

Panzerjager, I tend to say that things aren't likely unless they are going to occur or are true. What do I do if all you do is assume the wrong things about my posts? All I can say is "No, I was doing this in order to..."

From your point of view you say its not likely, yet your actions are viewed otherwise. So in this case it is viable to say that its likely. I don't like this quote. If you are town then it is your fault that your play looks scummy, the blame is not on the town for coming to a specific conclusion from your post.

For the first part, randomly bandwagoning brings serious votes (against onself) instead of random votes on random people.

Sure it's my fault my play looks scummy (see above). But if I outwardly do it on purpose to achieve a pro-town end, then there should be no issue.

How is trying to end the RVS scummy? Apparently some of you don't think its the best play, but still.

[DedicatedScribe]

Sure it's my fault my play looks scummy (see above). But if I outwardly do it on purpose to achieve a pro-town end, then there should be no issue.

The issue is, if you intentionally look scummy as town, then when you look scummy as scum, you can say "but I do this as town!" and people can't tell whether you're doing it because you're misguided town who thinks it's a good idea or because you're actually scum. You should not be able to get away with that. (You also shouldn't want to do it in the first place - you're essentially sabotaging yourself in 70% of your games to give yourself something resembling an advantage in the other 30% - but that's a slightly different discussion.)

(On an unrelated note, DS, you only need to quote the specific part of a post you're responding to. Really.)

Takes too much time, really.

You see, I can't say everything I do is scummy, because everything I do is not during the RVS.

I do suppose I shouldn't do this anymore; as I always seem to do bad when I participate in the gamestart (first 8 pages or so), but since I don't have a meta..

**

Panzerjager, any connections found during the RVS are WIFOM, until we get to the part where serious votes are made. I'm denying the town nothing.

Phlight, I thought I had made that obv since the start of the game O.o

Also, what makes my defense so terrible, Panzer?

[DedicatedScribe]

But it doesnt seem if there's been enough to end the RVS.

Omg

Vote: Limerickx

Hai.

****

limerickx is here.

vote limerickx

A) Phlight, can you explain the sig on your posts, multiple player/personality thing? I think I missed something.

B)

Vote : MacavityLock

, wouldn't want to be in a deadlock with him.

unvote; vote peanutman

Peanuts are meant for being broken open to find all the treats inside. They're nature's pinata.

These all evidence of my purpose.

I immediately bandwagoned onto any random vote I could. Would scum do this?

if that's how it's gonna be ^^

But it doesnt seem if there's been enough to end the RVS.

The reason you voted for me was not suitable. I already posted why.

You mean a mild argument where very few people isn't enough to end the random voting stage? Taking sides would certainly be a nice means to quickly leave this part of the game behind. Or are you of the notion that arbitrary votes would be a better continuation of the game? I don't understand why you appear to be opposed to leaving the RVS.

I think Phlight misread my post terribly here. He somehow came to the conclusion that I was trying to continue the RVS (?)

[DedicatedScribe]

Those votes were not random: they were bandwagons. Bandwagons to bring more attention onto me.

I think randomly bandwagoning is considered scummy, if done subtly like scum does. Many a RVS have ended b/c people pointed a finger at people who "randomly" voted for someone who currently had vote(s) on them.

But yea, I did this all wrong.

A role claim probably will be necessary. I'm a mason.

I won't claim for him/her, however, because I feel the end result would be the same, but worse (I get lynched, and my mason is both useless and now known to be useless, all because of my stupidity). If you think claiming would stop the lynch, then go ahead.

So sorry for the fail play. I'll get better.