Mini 912 - Little Golden Mafia (OVER)

[peanutman]

/confirm

[peanutman]

A) Phlight, can you explain the sig on your posts, multiple player/personality thing? I think I missed something.

B)

Vote : MacavityLock

, wouldn't want to be in a deadlock with him.

[peanutman]

@DedicatedScribe and Phlight, could you please explain to me what you're talking about? I gather it has something to do with Phlight's other accounts being different playstyles. Is there anything else to it or just some history between you two (and perhaps other players)?

Does everyone else follow what they are talking about?

[peanutman]

Wiki'ed hydra. Makes total sense now. Thanks.

As for my feelings towards it, given I just discovered this was possible in mafia, I'm keeping them on a short leash. Because they are two, they have the possibility of discussing amongst each other before posting/voting and therefore catch on possible scum-slips or bad moves before the other posts. Granted, they could also better scum-hunt (two heads are better than one), but they have an advantage from the start in my opinion.

Unvote
Vote : Panzerjager

, for not coming out to play.

[peanutman]

Limerick, I picked up on totallynotmafia's comments as well.

Well if you are town I hope that you will put the same effort into avoiding inconsistencies as you would if you were scum, otherwise I can see it as being a disadvantage for the rest of us because of the greater potential of you being mislynched. Honestly though if I didn't know already, so far I wouldn't be able to tell you're a hydra.

This it total fluff to me. Wouldn't you want every town member to avoid inconsistencies? And how is a hydra at a greater potential of being mislynched?

This seems as if DS is setting up the precurser for that possible mislynch.

Wasn't DS just saying what a few others have already said? That basically being a hydra is not an excuse.

On a side note, I think this topic has been well covered by now, and we should stop talking about how to deal with Phlight particularly and start generating relevant discussion and scum-hunting.

Yeah, I just made a post in my newbie game why I think inactivity hurts the town, I'm guessing I don't have to outline that here.

I also find this hypocritical. You post to make a point about inactivity without contributing anything new.
I try to play this game in a way that all my posts contribute to the discussion in one-way or another. Stating that there's inactivity and that's it not helpful for the town in a non-newb game doesn't seem productive to me. If things are dead, re-read the thread, post new questions, follow up on leads however slim they may be. But don't post about inactivity while essentially being inactive in the same breath.

Unvote, vote : totallynotmafia

[peanutman]

I prefer the idea of not outing the other just yet. I do like the "obvious breadcrumb" solution, giving his partner the chance to clear himself/herself when necessary, without becoming a sitting duck for scum. I think it would be a strong advantage for us to have a confirmed townie emerge later in the game.

However, DS still hasn't gotten back to us on the questions regarding his claim (i.e. does he know his partner's alignment, is he even aligned with town?).
On that note, does anyone else find it odd that he, who was active in early game, hasn't posted since Tuesday night after his claim?

[peanutman]

V/LA until Sunday. I hope that DS has answered some questions by then. It's getting on 3 days of silence since his claim.

[peanutman]

Seeing as how everyone's just waiting for DS to come back or have a replacement, I've decided to look into what happened before his claim. And one thing that Dramonic first raised but then got lost with the mason-business is Panzerjager's calling for a claim with only 4 votes on DS. That's an early call for a claim IMO and definitely requires some explaining. At that early stage, it's just rolefishing more than anything else. PJ, please explain what you were thinking when you asked for that.

Add to that, after the mason claim, the only thing he says is "lynch DS" because it's a good scum claim and if he was telling the truth, well, we could have a confirmed townie in lylo. When I think of it, this post is worse, and horrible town play. It's like he asked him to claim but was ready to lynch him regardless. Something does seem right in here and I want to find out more.

Unvote, Vote : Panzerjager

[peanutman]

Also, guys, let's not just wait for DS to show up or be replaced because inactivity is what scum wants. If the town gets focused exclusively on DedicatedScribe D1, we will have lost the potential of getting information and posts regarding others as well. That being said, DS's claim is the elephant in the thread right now and should be rightfully addressed once more information comes from him or his replacement, but until then, let's not be complacent. Let's get busy.

[peanutman]

TNF, what was the point of that post? I make a post specifically about this type of behaviour, I try to bring something new forward, and you are just setting us back. Are you even reading the thread? Do you really have absolutely nothing else to say? Even if ToD didn't agree necessarily with my statement, at least we are moving forward. Are you just trying derail any kind of discussions and putting all your hopes on a replacement who may or may not be found and post anything significant in the next few days. Come on.

FoS : totallynotmafia

VOTE COUNT:

DedicatedScribe (3) - Panzerjager, Trumpet of Doom, totallynotmafia
dramonic (0) -
kunkstar7 (0) -
Limerickx (1) - Kunkstar7
lobstermania (1) - dramonic
MacavityLock (0) -
Panzerjager (1) - peanutman
peanutman (1) - DedicatedScribe
Phlight (0) -
totallynotmafia (1) - lobstermania
Trumpet of Doom (1) - Limerickx
Wolframnhart (0) -

With 12 alive, it takes 7 to lynch.

[peanutman]

Having said that I think I see where you're coming from, I still need to hear from DS's replacement before I would even consider changing my vote though.

From here, StrangerCoug checks in, confirms he's a mason (without addressing the questions of his own alignment or if he can confirm his partner's) and distances himself from DS's actions. This is enough for you to go from "even considering changing your vote" to immediately jumping on Panzerjager by parroting my post 143. In what way has StrangerCoug answered your questions/concerns about DS? Did you see my vote on Panzerjager? Did you mean to basically lay out the same case as me in your own words? I just fail to see your line of thinking from 151 to 155, I must have missed something. Please explain.

[peanutman]

@mod, prod on Kunkstar, Lobstermania, Limerickx, MacavityLock, Panzerjager and Phlight please.

[peanutman]

I also don't like the way that Phlight jumped on the first person who didn't agree that the hypoclaim was a good idea.

Trumpet of Doom doesn't want a hypoclaim because he's scum.

Does this mean that anyone who doesn't want a hypoclaim is scum? I think's it's the wrong approach here. Phlight, if you had proposed the idea first and gotten discussion on its merits, it would have been more valuable. And then you voting for Trumpet right after your hypoclaim is just very odd. Do you expect all those who hypoclaim to then vote for their "hypo-suspect" or whatever?

In other news, regarding TNM, reading back on him, I think when he mentioned the country mouse-city mouse bit, he was in a way explaining why the claim and role/flavour made sense. However, it wasn't clear at the time and his switch did seem sudden. So, I will back off on you for now TNM, because I can see you as townie acting that way, though, to be honest, you should have put more thought into your quick vote switch, espcecially given your previous post about needing to hear from SC before even considering changing your vote.

Claim makes sense, and I like what people are saying about Panzer's 133. Unvote; Vote: Panzerjager. (Should be L-2, for people who care.)

This, however, is much more suspcious. TNM has already brought up the odd and misleading L-2 comment. But the other thing I don't like is that he adds his vote near the end, echoing everyone else comments without adding anything new. I get the feeling he knows the lynch is inevitable and he's best to be on the wagon. Also, there's something not right about the "for people who care" comment. What did you mean by that Trumpet? If, as you say, the L-2 comment was an innocent mistake, what were you looking to add with the second part of it?

The other player that worries me is Dramonic. He also voted for PJ later in the day, and, like Trumpet, by simply echoing earlier sentiments. Add to that, all his posts have been very short (2-3 lines max) and to the point. I believe they have been generally helpful to the town but aren't helpful in us getting a read on him. I go through him in iso and he doesn't give much away. My first few online mafia games, I've had bad gut feelings about this type of play, and, without going into the "too-townie" argument, I try to keep a close eye on those who post very little, drawing little attention to themselves.

[peanutman]

Looking at the flavour might give us a better idea. Kunkstar was put to sleep while B&B was run over. If he was hiding behind B&B, wouldn't he have been run over as well (or died in a similar fashion)? The fact that he was put to sleep instead seems to indicate a NK from a different source. Therefore, I wouldn't consider Phlight's 2nd option as very likely.

Uh... what? If I'm scum, wouldn't it be better for me not to be on the wagon, so that when it hits a townie, I can say, "hey, I knew that was a bad wagon?" (Yes, I know that's WIFOM... what would you expect in a response to a statement like that?)

IMO, scum usually try to hide amongst the masses when it comes to voting, rather than stand out. So if you're scum, it would be advantageous to throw your vote out near the end with others. You contribute to the mislynch without having to stray from the pack.

[peanutman]

I agree completely with a massclaim.

As for the set-up, I am leaning towards Mac's first option given the flavour of the kills. The "put to sleep" makes it seem like a SK. It's more "silent" then the "run over" which seems more like a mafia-team effort.

That being said, no one throw a vote yet!!! With 3 to lynch, a misplaced vote could end the game with the 2 maf pilling on.

[peanutman]

Hold on. Is there a possibility to have a regular 3-member mafia team with a townie who has a PR that would break this situation (i.e. can't be lynched, or townie with 2 votes)? Would that work with the balance? I bring this up because I've never seen a 2-member mafia team in a mini game, it seems from the outset rather unbalanced.

Whoa, I'm totally thinking out loud right now, but then how would that work with 2 NKs? I guess, in that sense, there would still have to be a Vig or a SK. This whole set-up thing is being a big jumbled mess in my mind. I guess Occam's razor is one (or two) two-member mafia teams and and maybe a SK (or, a vig who shouldn't have pulled the trigger last night).

I'll re-read the whole thread with the different scenarios in mind to see which is more likely.

[peanutman]

I like that SC. You pick first, so we can get this popcorn started and not spend half the day discussing how we mass-claim. I'd like the day to be focused on the claims, not just the process.

[peanutman]

Big Bird, VT.

Totallynotmafia, your turn.

[peanutman]

Maybe I'm not seeing this correctly but I would bet strong odds that TNF is the SK. Of the 3 other claimed VTs (i.e. Lobster, Mac, Trumpet), there is two scum and one townie. I doubt that TNF would have claimed that as scum and would have no need to do so as townie. Therefore, his claim is either true, or it's an easy fake-claim for SK. Looking balance-wise, along with the claims, to me, totallynotmafia must be the SK.

That being said, I will re-read Lobster, Mac and Trumpet, as well as look into the flavour of their roles to find the last two mafiosos.

[peanutman]

Macavity, it seems quite clear that he isn't. Why would he, if he were mafia, throw this gambit towards the end? All the eliminations have been townies, therefore, if he were mafia, he wouldn't need to throw out this kind of play. Add to that the fact that the set-up means there must be a SK or vig (though extremely unlikely both), his claim of vig (versus all others as VT or mason(SC) ) basically confirms him SK/vig. I expected both mafia to claim VT as well. I find it odd that you put this in question after you had laid out the scenarios quite smartly and you seemed on top of the game a few days ago?

[peanutman]

I really don't follow. Why wouldn't he throw the gambit? How do you know he has no reason to?

Re: peanut having suggested "run over" as maf-kill. I didn't want to say anything until after massclaim, but why would you think this? How do you know what kill flavor fits for maf vs scum in this kind of theme?

I thought I had explained the reasoning for it, but mafia would have no incentive to play that gambit. For one, having claimed with still two people to go, he is hoping no one else will claim Vig or SK (huge risk). Secondly, he would be drawing unnecessary attention on himself. Finally, his claim and explanation is much more consistent as Vig or SK than as maf.

I clearly don't have any way of knowing which killing flavour matches with who. However, I can still make an educated guess. The fact that the SK role has, by definition, the world silent in it (silent --> put to sleep) and that the mafia is generally a more violent group (i.e. run over), I shared with everyone what I thought of when reading the night results.
ML, could you explain what you mean by not wanting to say anything until after the massclaim? Had you thought it was odd when I first mentioned it but didn't want to say anything then? Or you just caught it during a read-through before the mass-claim and hold onto it until now? Basically, why wait until now to say this? Did you need a handy accusation in case I questionned you (ad-hom attack)?

------

Between {peanutman, ML, lobster}, I think peanutman's the most likely scum, which might be partly because his play here is reminiscent of his scum play in Mafia 102 (link's on my wiki page, if you're interested; it's also my only scum game in the last 12 months) - that said, I haven't seen his town play and am not likely to get a chance to do so in the next few days. I'll take a closer look at the other two at some point.

There are quite a few things wrong with how you portrayed me here.
1) You say I'm most likely scum because my play is reminiscent of my scum play in a different game, even though you admit that you've never read any of my other games (how could you even make that comparison?)
2) Related to the first point, you lay out a bold statement (that I am most likely scum), and then qualify that your reasoning for it isn't so strong and that you won't be able to follow up on this for a few days. It is manipulative to make such a statement at this point in the game, followed by weak reasoning and no desire to confirm it.
3) You claim I'm the scummiest without even looking at ML or Lobster. You can't judge amongst 3 people by only looking at one of them.

-------

Case on Lobstermania :

- Very little posting (without much content compared to other players). Has been cruising along without putting much visible effort into the game.
- Has inquired about the NKs a few times

Also, no one has brought up the two night kills. Is it too early to consider it?

The only part that bothers me is the two PR's NK'd N1.

- He random-voted for TNF on Jan. 20th, acknowledge that RVS was over on Jan 26th., and then, on Feb. 3rd

I'm going to keep my vote on TotallyNotMafia for now. He seems a bit trigger happy and that's not sitting well.

From his RVS-vote to this post, he didn't mention TNF once. Why wouldn't he have unvoted when he had acknowledged the end of RVS? He didn't mention any lingering suspicion on TNF until Feb 3rd. (By the way, following the post that I quoted, he has posted a total of 5 times without really contributing to the scum-hunting).
- Promised posts twice, having delivered late without much content both times.
- Has only voted once in the whole game, the whole 3 days!!!!!! And it was his RVS-vote.

I am cautious about placing a vote just yet, given that we are in MYLO, put he is definitely my top pick for scum.

[peanutman]

Lobstermania, this link should confirm to you that Big Bird is part of the Little Golden Book series (check the top of the cover). I was surprised at first to get this role, so I understand your skepticism.

http://www.amazon.com/Bird-Brings-Sprin ... 0307020193

[peanutman]

Having more time to address and respond to Lobster's "big post", here are my thoughts.

I am working on a post right now. I should have it posted by tomorrow night.

The fact that he said he was "working on a post" at the moment, but that it might take a day to complete, I expected much more. I can't imagine he worked very hard at it. Listed the roles, didn't do a quick google search on any of them, assumed Big Bird wasn't a LGB, made a weird assumption regarding a mode of transportation.

If all of this isn't enough, he then votes in Lylo. A second post immediately follows to unvote. But a vote at this stage should be placed carefully, not just because someone's claimed role is subjectively related to a mode of transportation seemed to be used in the NKs.

Going over the mass-claim, I think I've figured out the scum.

Seriously? You've been "following the thread", yet in lylo, your only scum-hunting is to quickly scan the claimed roles and say what first comes out of your head reading them (and actually your only scum-hunt of the game!)? So much that you place a crucial vote on that (your second vote of the game, first non-RVS)?

If I were to vote at this instant, my vote would definitely be for Lobstermania. However, I will wait for Trumpet of Doom to come back. I'd also like a response from Lobster about this post as well as my case on 273.

[peanutman]

My response to ToD's case

I think I mentioned this before, but asking for a claim with only 4 votes isn't actually what Panzer did. What he did was ask for a wagon to a claim. So we've got misrepresentation here.

Let's look at what PJ said before throwing out the word misrepresentation.

I think he needs some more pressure and a claim about now.

You have done plenty to warrant pressure and a vote

Second quote immediately corrected with :

warrant a claim..not a vote.

Lynch him. If we mislynch, at least his mason partner can be confirmed and help us in lylo. It's a good scumclaim.

Looking at all the first three quotes, are you seriously telling me, ToD, that he was asking for a wagon that would eventually lead to a claim? Also note that there were no votes that were placed between his three first quotes. Whose misrepresenting whom? Or, rather, who hasn't read the thread before accusing someone of misrepresenting? To add to it all, the fact that he called to lynch a claimed PR immediately after did seem like scum trying to find a PR. I stand by my accusations then because I believe that PJ acted scummily and caused his own demise with his play. Note too that others believed with me, and so my accusations on him weren't out of left field.

I'd hope that even by that point, it was clear that Phlight and I weren't scumpartners. Since we didn't have reason to suspect a second scum faction (=SK), trying to cast suspicion on both of us seems unwarranted.

I never claimed that you were scum-partners. I raised suspicions on two things independantly. Obviously, not all of our suspicions our correct. But for you to just disregard my whole argument because "it was clear" that Phlight and you weren't scumpartners is just avoiding the main argument.
However, what really bothers me about this point on your case is that you misquoted me to better your argument. If you read the whole post, you will see that I also cast suspicion on Dramonic. According to your logic, that must mean that I think you are all scum partners. Correct?

Overeager. While I could have cared less if we massclaimed, I figured I could guess the roles left alive on my own (2 mafia, SK, mason, 2 VTs would have been my bet). The eagerness in peanut's post sounds like he's looking for useful PRs to kill.

At this point in the game, with 2 scum, 1 confirmed townie and 2 unknowns, I would rather have more information than less. As part of the uninformed majority I would like as much information as possible to find scum. By revealing the PR (vig or SK), it increases my chances of picking scum from 50% to 66%. I will take those odds in lylo any day.

Yeah. We know. There's no reason to say it unless you're trying to look town.

But then Lobster still threw a vote. I don't think the reminder is unwarranted. On a side note, don't we all want to look town?

That's not a possibility, and your suggestion of it is disingenuous, counterproductive, and scummy.

As I said, I was thinking through the set-up and I've never seen a 2-scum team in a mini. If you feel it's scummy to suggest it, that's up to you. I just want to make sure that we've thought through every scenario.

Bold: Misrepresentation, as pointed out at the top of this page.

In general: Does anyone else see a problem here? He says, "There are quite a few things wrong with how you portrayed me here," which sounds like he's building up to "you should be lynched for this post alone," then he goes and builds a case on lobster, stating that lobster, not me, is his top pick for scum.

I agree that my comment that you bolded wasn't fair, I couldn't make that argument. But I hope you realize that your earlier claim that my comment was disingenuous isn't fair either. The counterproductive and scummy is a more subjective question.
As for your general statement, I don't see a problem. I am not close-minded to assume that if someone raises suspicion on me, they must be scum. Townies make bad arguments all the time, in all games. I know that I've made some weak ones in this game.


Finally, regarding meta reads, I don't hold too much weight to it. I mainly feel it can be manipulated by everyone. Someone can point to their meta in certain games to support a claim or their way of playing or scum can use meta to mislead as well.
ToD, I feel you might be looking to my answer and thinking, "I've played with him as scum, he doesn't want me to look at meta, it could be because he's scum", but there's nothing I can do about that, it's how I've always felt about meta. I'm always wary of why people are pointing or looking at meta.

---

Still waiting for a response from Lobster. I will vote for him tomorrow afternoon unless he provides a great post and addresses the main accusations against him.

[peanutman]

Picking up the prod. I've been writing an essay lately. I will answer the few questions directed my way and add additional comments by tomorrow.

[peanutman]

@DocPotter, have you read the whole thread yet? Because the timeline I've sketched out in my mind of your play as you came in seems odd. Let me explain. (times based on EST for my sake)
- Joined early Friday morning (i.e 2am)
- Friday evening, first post of note, claimed you fell asleep after reading D1.
- One hour later, post your "quick notes" and build a case on role names, something your predecessor did as well and was criticized by the whole town for. You arrived to this "case" most likely by skipping to the last pages given Mac's answer about the claiming (I say this because of your following post).
- Another hour passes, you've just arrived to "Lobster's post" (I imagine you meant his big post of the game with the only scum-hunting being looking at the roles and posting his first impressions). After your whole read through, the only thing you have to go on is the same thing as what Lobster said, as well as Mac's quick-ask for a full claim on your part.

I don't know if it's encouraging or not, but you have matched the extent of Lobster's scum-hunting and activity in this game within a single day. However, Lobster had never really contributed anything of note (or voted for that matter) since the beginning of the game . In my opinion, you are doing the same thing as him. I strongly doubt that if you had read the whole thread, the best piece of hunting you could come up with is the names. Of all that has happened, votes, bandwagons, flips, cases, posts, ... Out of all this, the only thing you bring up is almost exactly what Lobster did. I was hoping for much more from his replacement, I was hoping for a fresh perspective, some new insight. However, you've made me distrust you/Lobster even more.

Vote : DocPotter

[peanutman]

Doc, I can't believe you are still on this. You have not included anything about your complete read through, and you've been a stickler on the same thing your predecessor has.

Let me answer your 330. For one, my timeline is correct.
At first, when you said I was off, I double checked, to make sure I didn't make a mistake. If you noticed in my original post, I said the times were based on EST, where I am, because of the time stamp I see next to each post. This seems like deliberately misleading to support your cause.

You asked if I found it weird that two people found the same thing. I do find it odd, when it's the same player slot, with the second person repeating the same thing. Nothing new, nothing additional. Just a "Big Bird isn't a LGB" (proved wrong when Lobster first brought it up). And then this

Big Bird is a seperate

Disney

character.
If you can't see a blown false claim then why do I bother.

If you're gonna bold something like that, as part of your major hunting effort, you better be straight about your facts. Neither Big Bird nor Sesame Street are Disney. This indicates to me that you are either just throwing accusations out with the role names without actually doing much research, or, what I was hoping much more from you when you came in, actual scumhunting. But I've come to realize that you aren't doing that because you know you're close to the end. Your predecessor lurked to lylo, and now you want to swoop in and finish the game with a mislynch without putting any real effort.

---

Also, reading through Lobster again, this strikes out at me.

I think peanutman is scum and made a fake-claim to hide his true title (probably The Good Humor Man).

Why would he say that the role is "probably" the Good Humor Man? Where did he get that name from? He obviously didn't search for Big Bird in LGBs, but he knew of this other character?

[peanutman]

Well, I think we had a fairly easy going of it early on, with PJ self-hammering and Phlight's fake-results. Add to that an SK killing every night and we didn't have to survive as many day lynches. The only really threatening part this whole game was Doc being convinced of our roles been fake. Doc, you could have turned this around if you had tried to build a case on either of us, rather than just pursuing that one logic? Finally, as you can see in the scum QT, Mac and I were trying to think up the different possible scenarios heading to endgame. That's why I was really anxious to see the day start, if TNM had picked Mac or not.

Good playing MacavityLock, definitely an excellent scum-partner!
Thanks Riceballtail for modding, and your fakeclaims were fine IMO.

[peanutman]

@BaB, you can check the scum QT (in my earlier post) as for the rationale, but in summary, we chose you because Limerickx had played fairly well without any real suspicion, yet Phlight struck us as the most likely to be doc-protected so we chose our 2nd target. Also, with you being new and all, if we could avoid adding a new element to the game, given that we had escaped the first day without really any suspicion, it was best for us. Turns out we were right, because you had suspected Mac, and you could have caused trouble. Also, regarding your tracking of him, it wouldn't have worked because he was untrackable.