Open 188 - Tweed Mafia - Over!

[XScorpion]

XScorpion: Who do you expect to be lynched first in this game, and why?

Me cuz I'm voting for you.

Vote: KittyMo

Why am I voting for you? I dunno. Just cuz.

[XScorpion]

No, I was slow too, just not quite as slow.

Unvote
Vote: MrSuave

for not noticing that I was listed in post 4 as well.

[XScorpion]

Hmmm. Hard question to answer, since only about half of us are here, but I’d choose Lowell, because I don’t like votes without reasoning on page 1 unless they’re early bandwagoning.

Is it ok on page 2 then?

[XScorpion]

@everyone: What is the best way to get out of RVS?

Do something stupid.

OK!

Unvote
Vote: XScorpion

[XScorpion]

NO U

[XScorpion]

unvote
Vote: StrangerCoug

You can vote me if you want, I don't mind.

[XScorpion]

Aw why won't you vote me? Pretty please?

[XScorpion]

is there a point to this

No not really. I just don't think anyone is scummy enough to warrant my vote yet.

[XScorpion]

Unvote
Vote: KittyMo

I'll go out of character and explain why (SHOCKING!)

I had no school today, so I was waiting around all day for your game to start.

Well, Zach, I was planning on providing another method of discussion, but I had to leave for dance class soon, and didn't have time to come up with one.

You were waiting around all day...but didn't have enough time? What's up with that?

"Random Questioning Stage" would seem less scummy to me if it was on post 1, before people had placed votes on her for not supporting RVS.

Obviously, no one had random voted, I would have chosen to vote for a different reason.

Surely you didn't actually believe that everyone was going to agree and cancel out the RVS?

Quick question for both. How is it what she did, did not promote discussion?

The only reason it promoted discussion is because people saw her as suspicious for trying to discourage one of the most common ways to begin discussion.

Hmmm. Hard question to answer, since only about half of us are here, but I’d choose Lowell, because I don’t like votes without reasoning on page 1 unless they’re early bandwagoning.

Does this mean my vote for you had reasoning? Also, do you think Lowell's vote is scummier than MrSuave's absence?

...which is why I didn't ask things like "What's your favorite power role: cop, doctor, or vig?"...

I am suspicious about someone being the first in the thread to mention power roles, even in this context.

You're asking me to figure out what you should do next for you? o.O

Would you like to explain why you don't want to give any suggestions of what is best for town?

Since I apparently fail so much, what better plan would you like to grace us with?

For a better plan to exist, you would have to actually give one to compare it to. Did you simply start the RQS just to generate discussion, and let the rest of town decide what to do with the results?



P.S. Today is the first day I actually read the whole thread. Does anyone want to explain why my insanely anti-town behaviour hasn't warranted a single vote? At most I got a few slaps on the wrists from Yabba and Locke, but really...I mean, if I was anyone else in this game, I would probably be voting myself already out of policy (oh wait, I already did. Lol.) Just pointing out that it seems strange for there to be so much discussion about certain players, yet if I was scum (and wasn't acting like a jackass with my anti-townness) I would breeze through day 1 almost completely unnoticed.

[XScorpion]

I'd say a lot of your points on Kitty are more anti-town points, not scummy points.

Do you believe that the people who act most anti-town are less/equally likely to be scum than others?

[XScorpion]

I operate on the assumption that whoever has the most anti-town behaviour is most likely to be scum.

[XScorpion]

Kitty please come back

[XScorpion]

I'll continue when Kitty responds to my accusation

[XScorpion]

If people did continue to RV, I, as I did, would vote the first person to random vote. If no one did RV, I would have chosen to vote for a different reason. Why was this not obvious?

This does not answer my question. Did you actually suspect that the latter case (no one RVs) was likely to happen?

IMO it would be stupid for scum to put themselves in the spotlight at the very beginning of the game. That's exactly what they're trying NOT to do.

WIFOM, and I'm really basing this on my last game... a goon disrupted RVS and started a RQ(uestion)S with the purpose of trying to gather information about town for the scum to use. He got lynched day 1 (due to my preemptive hammer vote), so I'm leaning towards the same thing going on here.

How, in context, do you think what I said would lead to rolefishing, especially since I didn't continue to push talking about power roles?

This is just a gut feeling on my part. Like I said, "even in this context" where it really isn't that scummy to be mentioning roles, I just have a hunch.

Also, if you're so concerned with scum going under the radar, why did you vote me, the player currently most mentioned, besides, perhaps, MrSuave?

I'm not incredibly concerned about scum going under the radar, but I think others should give it some thought. As I said, if I was scum I would have easily made it through day 1 already without anyone seriously questioning me.

And finally, WHY DIDN'T YOU READ THE ENTIRE THREAD?

I tend to have more success in catching scum when the scum in question is attacking me...maybe this only happens in newbie games, but every scum I've caught so far was caught after he/she attacked me. It seems that general opinion here is that scum aren't going to fall for that this time around. I suspect that what I did might have generated more discussion if you hadn't been drawing so much attention already.

[XScorpion]

What kinds of questions did he ask?

His questions were somewhat more scummy than yours ("What would you do in X situation?"), but the general idea is there.

If you are not concerned about it, why do you think others would be? Do you believe all the scum are people thoroughly mentioned? If so, why would you be trying to tell people something you don't believe?

While I didn't expect EVERYONE to come down on me, there is usually at least a few people who put pressure on lurkers...I'm surprised that there is nothing like that going on in this game. I do not believe that all scum are thoroughly mentioned, but I believe it likely that at least one of them is. Obviously I would feel more comfortable if there were no lurkers, but I realize that such a situation is very unlikely on day 1.
My mindset now is that I believe that there are 1-2 scum among active players, and 0-1 scum amongst the lurkers. Today I feel it best for me to focus on active players, then tomorrow I will likely be lurker hunting if necessary. I did not expect everyone to share my mindset, hence my surprise that no one has attacked me yet.

Which of my questions in particular think are information about town for the scum to use? How would they be more helpful to scum than town?

I don't believe it is very productive to speculate on what scum might or might not say to get information about town.

Do you have any reasons to believe that I play scum the same way the guy you're talking about does?

No, but on the flip-side, I have no reasons to believe that your play is more town than scum.

How often do town players attack you?

As town, I've found that most lynches on me have actually been lead by scum...go figure.

[XScorpion]

Also, there's 3 scum in this setup. Where's the missing number coming from?

Apologies, not used to this format.

Basically, I want you to explain which of my questions you think someone who is not town would ask.

I think all of the questions you've asked could be potentially useful to scum, particularly your questions along the lines of "is XX scummy". If you were town, you wouldn't need to know what other people think is scummy - only scum care about whether their actions might appear to be scummy or not.

That's not really what I asked.

Town players usually don't initiate attacks on me except when I am scum.

[XScorpion]

Town players usually don't initiate attacks on me except when I am scum.

No WIFOM here, this is a statement of facts. Of all the games I've played, the majority of lynches on me are lead by scum players, with the exception of my games as scum.

[XScorpion]

EBWODP: That is, the majority of ATTEMPTED lynches.

[XScorpion]

True, but I find it raises the chances of them being scum by just a little bit.

[XScorpion]

Except that Kitty isn't going after me, so I don't see the correlation.

[XScorpion]

very strong lurkervibes coming from Lowell
see what I did there?

[XScorpion]

In fact

unvote
Vote: Lowell

In reverse chronological order...

very strong townvibes coming from yabba.

Blatant buddying.

unvote, vote MrSuave. Bandwagon. I'll give zach credit for showing up at least. Suave has an attitude on the rare occasions he does participate.

I like how Lowell comments on people showing up, when both zach and Suave have been more active than him. Also I don't like bandwagon votes that have basically no logic behind them.

unvote, vote zach. 39 and 41, taken together, rub me the wrong way. 39 is meta and 41 is defensive and meta.

I share Zach's opinion that:

See, my thought when I see a question like that is that of a scum player who wants to know what NOT TO DO in a mafia game, a scum player who might be paticularly worried about being caught by a specific player.

Does this suggest possible Lowell/Kitty pair? Maybe.

[XScorpion]

What is the scummiest action you can think of off the top of your head, and why?

As I said before, I don't see how this question.helps town.

See, my thought when I see a question like that is that of a scum player who wants to know what NOT TO DO in a mafia game, a scum player who might be paticularly worried about being caught by a specific player.

I agree with this.

unvote, vote zach. 39 and 41, taken together, rub me the wrong way. 39 is meta and 41 is defensive and meta.

So basically, Lowell is suggesting that Zach's argument against you is meta and grounds for being scum. In other words, he is defending you.

[XScorpion]

I'm not really buying XScorpion's explanation for his weak attack on everyone attacking him.

What do you believe my mindset is then? Would you like to explain why you think I've behaved how I have thus far?

[XScorpion]

You place too much stock on your own meta. I finished a game relatively recently where everybody on my lynch was town and so was I.

This indicates to you that I'm scum?

[XScorpion]

Then what is your explanation for why, unlike others such as Locke, I decided to stop lurking?

[XScorpion]

What time is the deadline at?

[XScorpion]

Let's get back to it, shall we?

Vote: Lowell

[XScorpion]

I tend to find that night-kill speculation just leads to WIFOM and nothing useful for town. If you want to discuss it, go ahead, but I'm still gonna put my vote back where it was. As for yabbaguy, I'm convinced that his death was as simple as him being seen by scum as the most pro-town player.

I'm much more interested in if there were any successful investigations (indicating scum).

[XScorpion]

Any chance we should do some sort of mass copclaim situation? Can we use two cops to our advantage here or what?

Wow obvscum?

[XScorpion]

@Jazz - You forgot me

[XScorpion]

@Jazz: What's your opinion of a possible Lowell/Kitty/Farside threesome?

[XScorpion]

farside22 and Lowell are scum, with MrSuave and XScorpion being somewhat good candidates as the other one. I don't have a strong read either way on anyone else.

I'm definitely cool with lynching lowell then farside then myself then MrSuave. In that order obviously.

[XScorpion]

Nah, but I figure if both Lowell and Farside turn up scum then losing 1 townie (me) won't be an absolute disaster for town. I'm a big fan of martyrdom

[XScorpion]

If what I say is a lie, and I'm scum, why am I volunteering to die?

[XScorpion]

In short I found only minimumal scum hunting from him, with WIFOM and then trying to an attempt a soft claim from the cops to calling lowell scum for doing almost the same thing.

They are not the same thing, by a long shot. I want a guilty result from a cop, not for everyone to engage in a crazy strategy that does not benefit town.

Nice OMGUS from Lowell btw, even more reason for my vote to stay.

[XScorpion]

It seems my bandwagon has moved. I shall follow it.

unvote
Vote:Farside

[XScorpion]

I'm definitely not buying this. Why would you scan Lowell instead of your main target yesterday, Mr. Suave?

[XScorpion]

Well she clears me so I'm game. I'll believe it.

XSCORPION, ZACHRULEZ

YOUR THOUGHTS ON THIS POST PLEASE?

Obv.scum.
Also if farside wanted to dodge the tailor why would he investigate the guy who had the most votes rather than his target?

[XScorpion]

Also I don't know why Lowell is so convinced he was actually a cop.

[XScorpion]

NEXT!

Vote: Lowell

[XScorpion]

The real idiocy here is, why is Lowell still alive? Hurry up and lynch please, I wanna go look for the next scum.

[XScorpion]

Technically yes but I want to be 100% sure Lowell is scum first. If he isn't then the whole game plan changes and the people who might look scummy to me now for being friends with Lowell could be the wrong targets.
But to be a good townie and not fail like I am in my other two games I'll try not to lurk. I'm assuming now that everyone who voted Farside is town. This means we have:
nhammen
Starbuck
Suave
Lowell
As the potential scum. I've marked out Lowell as the obvious choice for #2, leaving nhammen Starbuck and Suave. Of the three, nhammen seems the most townish to me, Starbuck hasn't done anything yet, so if I had to make a wild stab I would point the finger at Suave.
So, @all three:

If

one of the three of you is scum, who is it?

[XScorpion]

b) You were just rushing the day. Why do you make it sound like you want to wait now?

Honestly doesn't matter that much to me but if you guys want discussion then by all means...as long as Lowell dies today I'm happy. The only thing I DON'T want to hear today is a suggestion that we lynch anyone else.

[XScorpion]

I highly doubt that scum would lead a bandwagon on scum. At a stretch you could possibly say strangercoug is potential scum because he thought farside was dead anyway and figured he'd look better by hammering, but I still doubt it.

[XScorpion]

Why do I have the sneaking suspicion that XScorpion is trying to stall discussion of a lynch of anyone other than Lowell? I mean, yeah, I want Lowell dead, but why are the other avenues closed? I don't get it.

What's the point of this?

Is there someone else we should be considering lynching?

This. In the words of Grand Moff Tarkin,

You Would Prefer A Different Target? A Military Target, Perhaps? Then Name The System!

It's highly unlikely scum bussed farside to L-1, given that I don't see why he was worth bussing over obv. scum Lowell.

[XScorpion]

So in other words, MrSuave
a) thinks scum bussed farside for some reason, and that obv. town Kitty and/or Zach are "probably" scum (yeah ok </sarcasm>).
b) admits to not trying to scumhunt, claiming that "near the end I'll become more useful".

How is asking if you are scum going to help? Well, it sure made it clear to me who I'm gonna be voting tomorrow.

[XScorpion]

You became obv. town around the time you helped lynch Farside lol. I also echo Zach's statement of your pro-townness

[XScorpion]

But I do have a question for you, Kitty left a pretty blatant list at the end of the day that yabba was not on. Do you think this implicates her at all?

The one with the bottom part of her scumlist? I don't see why her thinking he is town makes her scum...seems a stretch to me.

[XScorpion]

It's her list of least scummiest...out of the people she thinks is scum. Everyone whose name wasn't there she thought was town.

[XScorpion]

Why does no one have anything to ask me? If I was scum it would be gg for town right now :/
Either kill Lowell already or at least pressure me, I'm getting bored.

[XScorpion]

Not sure who to go after now...Zach was cop, and he cleared Kitty and/or Nikanor, so I'm iffy about voting either of them...
OTOH his later posts seem to indicate that he was suspicious of Kitty, despite having said she is probably town. At this point, I'm thinking either voting SC (continuing Zach's line of thinking) or Kitty, but I'm not liking the super fast bandwagon forming here...smells of scum.

[XScorpion]

I think Nikanor, Kittymo, and Xscorpion are town.

I echo nhammen's opinion that this is likely him hinting at his investigation targets (with town results). Obviously at least one of the 3 of us wasn't investigated, making me think that his N1 investigation was me and his N2 was Nikanor.

[XScorpion]

Kitty wagon is too strong, I will push the other one.

Vote: Mr. Suave

'Cuz Zach said.

[XScorpion]

Kitty wagon is too strong, I will push the other one.

Vote: Mr. Suave

'Cuz Zach said.

Doesn't seem like very strong reasoning considering we've had 28 pages of information, and you just said you wanted to lynch SC...

Right-o, but I feel like voting for someone and Mr. Suave has a vote already.

[XScorpion]

that's still really weak reasoning

Yup, it sure is. Vote me, I dare you.

[XScorpion]

XScorpion is quite obviously anti-town on purpose. The million-dollar question is if he's scum for what he's doing or not. (I believe experience tells me no.)

You can't say that for sure. You'll have to lynch me to find out

[XScorpion]

It makes sense if I'm scum, duh.
And how is me acting anti-town any better than you voting people based solely on gut?

[XScorpion]

I only "might" make it on your list? For shame. You should be going after me and suggesting that Zach's allies were all out to get him.

[XScorpion]

Uncooperative, as in doing absolutely nothing to scumhunt and coasting through the game.

This is different from what I do because...?

[XScorpion]

I really, really dislike XScorpion's attitude, because I don't understand why he's in such a "wheeeee let's do random crap" mood like it's still the RVS. It would make sense if he's scum because he's generally not been being pressured the entire game, and the lynch yesterday definitely would up scum morale.

Gaaaah.

Yes it makes sense if I'm scum.
VOTE ME VOTE ME VOTE ME VOTE ME

[XScorpion]

Shooting me? Is that a soft scumclaim?

[XScorpion]

Actually I'm just killing time till nhammen's replacement shows up and gives SC the green light to hammer Suave.

[XScorpion]

Assuming he is scum, either SC or one of the people who aren't voting him.

[XScorpion]

Well we'll just have to lynch him then see if he pops up scum or not.

[XScorpion]

Who do you think is scum on his wagon?

[XScorpion]

pwnman: Have you already read the topic? That's pretty damn fast, not to mention the fact that you're all ready to jump on Mr. Suave without a reason...FOS: pwnman.

[XScorpion]

unvote

I want to hear what this replacement has to say.

[XScorpion]

Eh, I'm just making sure our replacement doesn't jump the gun. If you want you can unvote and I'll put mine back on. Either way works for me.

[XScorpion]

Cool beans

Vote: Mr Suave

[XScorpion]

This game is so dead.

unvote
Vote: Pwnman

Whatever.

[XScorpion]

Suave is scum for sure, wtf at early vote.
Starbuck or Kitty is his partner, leaning towards the former.

[XScorpion]

Busy with midterms, sorry for my lack of attendance.
MrSuave is complaining about me not voting him so I will oblige and hope that I'm not screwing up by voting for a townie >_<

Vote: MrSuave

[XScorpion]

Well shit.

[XScorpion]

Did Nik get tailored, or did we misread Zach's breadcrumbs?

[XScorpion]

my bad lol.
hey you thought i was scum too

[XScorpion]

vote endgame flavor