Open 188 - Tweed Mafia - Over!

[Lowell]

vote nika

[Lowell]

If kitty can keep up this intensity throughout she'll be an asset. If she can't than this will be a waste of our time. In general I agree with nik's assesment.

unvote, vote zach

. 39 and 41, taken together, rub me the wrong way. 39 is meta and 41 is defensive and meta.

[Lowell]

I'd like to see some interest in a zach wagon if folks aren't doing anything other than telling jokes.

[Lowell]

@farside- I'm more or less uninspired by Kitty's recent play. She squirms too much for my liking, and overreacted to some mild comments. That said, KingMetaZach looks like a better option.

@zach- what question are you talking about?

[Lowell]

If kitty can keep up this intensity throughout she'll be an asset. If she can't than this will be a waste of our time. In general I agree with nik's assesment.

unvote, vote zach

. 39 and 41, taken together, rub me the wrong way. 39 is meta and 41 is defensive and meta.

Is it your position that people who make meta arguments are scummy then?

Yes, basically. If that's pretty much all they do. It's my opinion that being meta is a good way to appear active while not really ruffling any feathers. This is what I see you doing, even in the way you phrased this question.

[Lowell]

@farside- because I only have one vote. Zach strikes me as the bigger offender. suave is just plain lurky.

[Lowell]

unvote, vote MrSuave

. Bandwagon. I'll give zach credit for showing up at least. Suave has an attitude on the rare occasions he does participate.

[Lowell]

When people start talking about "if I get past day 1" when they only have four votes, it rings alarm bells in my head. Methinks 166 is the first of many subtle pity parties from Suave.

[Lowell]

very strong townvibes coming from yabba.

[Lowell]

Deadline's in 3 days guys, we might want to come to a consensus on a lynch here.

Unvote: Vote: Lowell

Or we could come to a consensus and lynch zach.

[Lowell]

Deadline's in 3 days guys, we might want to come to a consensus on a lynch here.

Unvote: Vote: Lowell

Also, doesn't suave have more votes? If your real purpose were just to make sure we get a lynch, wouldn't you go for the leader rather than suspiciously picking someone with fewer votes?

[Lowell]

We can do better than this. Lynch zach or suave and I'll do better tomorrow. I'd prefer zach. His deliberate meta seems more and more off-putting the more pages we get through.

[Lowell]

post 247 is quintessential zachplay. The entirety of his game is mild-mannered, slightly peeved self-deflection.

unvote, vote zach

suave is fine too, but that doesn't seem to be happening.

[Lowell]

yabba speaks sense. With two cops out there it's important not to lynch a power-role on D1. The field will begin to open up a little on D2.

[Lowell]

Any chance we should do some sort of mass copclaim situation? Can we use two cops to our advantage here or what?

[Lowell]

You guys are idiots. It's just a suggestion. How bad at this game do you think I am?

vote zach

. This guy is unbearable and obvious.

[Lowell]

^^^ This sounds more or less like what I was thinking, yes. I didn't recall it having a name.

[Lowell]

It's not clear to me why SUGGESTING a hypoclaim is scummy. I for one think it would be a good idea, and there might be others out there as well if not for the power of the mob to shoot the idea down before even knowing what I'm talking about. There are a lot of twitchy players out there and I don't like it.

If Suave and I are scum, whatsay we lynch Suave first, okay?

@farside- I am acting out... a little. The way zach clings to the mindless accusations on me suggest to me that he's scum. In ISO I've yet to see him do anything without mass public support, which is not exactly the most townish behavior.

[Lowell]

It's not clear to me why SUGGESTING a hypoclaim is scummy. I for one think it would be a good idea, and there might be others out there as well if not for the power of the mob to shoot the idea down before even knowing what I'm talking about. There are a lot of twitchy players out there and I don't like it.

If Suave and I are scum, whatsay we lynch Suave first, okay?

@farside- I am acting out... a little. The way zach clings to the mindless accusations on me suggest to me that he's scum. In ISO I've yet to see him do anything without mass public support, which is not exactly the most townish behavior.

The fact is both zach and scorpion says it was scummy.
kittymo called it role fishing. Why are you attacking zach only on this?

Because he's the one trying to get the most mileage out of his self-righteous faux scum-hunting.

[Lowell]

I'm going to go over the hypo claim and where my thoughts on it came from first

http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=8924

This is the game I was mod in. They did a hypoclaim for the cop (fbi) and even though I knew who the cop was it actually confused the mafia more then helped. If fact the mafia guessed completely wrong and lost.


http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=8932

This game I was mafia and suggested the hypoclaim. Although in our scum chats it narrowed down suspects for us we still guessed wrong with the hypoclaim on who was what.
So yes it narrow's it down as scum know their claims are BS but the rest they have either a assumption based on the claims or town does the worst picks without reason which helps the scum.
in both cases this helped from outing a power role to the scum and helped the town more.
The only reason I'm not saying lets do this is because of the WIFOM with the tailor in the game. The cop results can be corrupted.

Cop results would be corrupted either way. Don't see how that's an issue. This looks like weird waffling from farside.

Again, I'm not married to the idea of a hypoclaim and am happy to let it die for at least another day if that's what folks want. I am, however, surprised by the speed of the response against it. Not sure why the conversation itself frightens everyone, but for some reason it does.

[Lowell]

I agree. We'd be an unstoppable team. I'm not scum, though, unfortunately.

[Lowell]

I feel like I'm having this argument everywhere at once.

No, zach, it doesn't necessarily give the mafia an edge. The edge WE get is that if a cop dies before being able to claim we'll at least have their results on record. The cop results could be corrupted either way, so this isn't an argument againts a hypoclaim. Again, I don't care if no one wants to do it, but to pretend that there's no upside and to accuse anyone who sees upside as being scum is ridiculous.

[Lowell]

Ugh, scorpion is scummy as hell. "Lynch X, then Y, then me" is not "townie matrydom." It's just regular dumb.

[Lowell]

Yet like Lowell, you're not voting your suspect.

Who says I'm not voting my top suspect? Can't scorpion be scummy too?

[Lowell]

Well she clears me so I'm game. I'll believe it.

[Lowell]

If she's a cop and got to L-1, she wouldn't wait for someone to ask.

[Lowell]

The above was posted a bit late. I missed this last page. Sorry.

I have nothing to add here, other than what's been said.

1) There are TWO cops, so the odds of her being one are decent. Either way I don't see the problem in keeping her alive.

It is certainly possible she's lying, but we'll find that out later. In that case, as soon as one cop reveals him/herself, the other will know she's lying. We'll catch her either way.

2) It is certainly possible the "tailor" could have targetted the same person (me) if farside is the cop. Still, given that there were 5 or 6 ppl getting attention yesterday, that is unlikely. So the obviously solution is to TENTATIVELY clear both farside and myself, at least unless something else happens to make that not seem true.

(cue idiots all yelling "THAT's WHAT HE'd WANT US TO BELIEVE!!!")

[Lowell]

No scum fakeclaiming cop outs their own scumbuddy, so the theory that I'm scum is retarded, EVEN IF farside is lying about her role.

[Lowell]

Well she clears me so I'm game. I'll believe it.

Lowell - Please tell me how this post could come from anyone except scum who has been tailored. I seriously cannot think of any other perspective.

All idiocy. If I were tailored wouldn't I

want

the cop to die to (a) get rid of a cop, and (b) "prove" my innocence?

[Lowell]

I guess I dont' understand what the tailor is, because this makes no sense. Didn't farside investigate me and get town?

[Lowell]

If she's scum I'm unilaterally declaring that I'm cleared as a possible scum-buddy.0

[Lowell]

This is insane idiocy. I mean, comical insane idiocy.

So everyone's theory is thus:

farside, as a desperate scum, decided to claim cop, and ALSO IMPLICATE HER SCUMBUDDY by "clearing" him? Someone tell me why that makes sense.

I swear to god, if I ever had a scumbuddy who did this to me, I would bus the crap out of them, then find them in real life and punch them in the face.

vote scorpion

. He's the most smug about this idiotic idea.

One other note: the remaining cop is now useless.

[Lowell]

If she's scum I'm unilaterally declaring that I'm cleared as a possible scum-buddy.0

As a connection to Zach's first post of today, Lowell's trying to cover his tracks with this post.

Vote: Lowell.

This post cracks me up. It upsets me that anyone could think that I'm

that

terrible at the game.

[Lowell]

Whatever, dude. Tunnel away.

For the non-idiots, reconstruct the whole scenario and tell me where it makes sense to believe I'm scum. Meta though it may be, you have to believe either (a) this was an incredible plan from the beginning, or (b) my behavoir was one of someone who ACTUALLY BELIEVED she was the cop (hence the now-useless debate about mafia framing)

Anyway, whatever else you believe, believe that SC is town. 469 is gutsy as hell, and would in no way have been made by scum, considering many of us (like me) believed the claim and had begun to move other directions, and others were likely to be swayed if the hammer didn't come. Had SC not made that post when he did, I do not believe farside would have been lynched.

[Lowell]

Nevermind, I misread the roles. I thought it was two cops and two mafia, in which case the last mafia will just tailor him/herself every day. It's not, it's three. Carry on.

[Lowell]

Nevermind, I misread the roles. I thought it was two cops and two mafia, in which case the last mafia will just tailor him/herself every day. It's not, it's three. Carry on.

Why do you seem to know for a fact whether or not the tailor is still alive?

Um, because farside was a goon?

[Lowell]

Lowell back. Took a long weekend. Will catch up hopefully tonight.

[Lowell]

@zach- scorpion is more useless than you. i'm as surprised as you are.

@mod- I'm voting scorpion, not SC. SC is town, I don't vote town.

[Lowell]

vote MrSuave

Lowell's lynch is just as good if not better, but I mean, just look at what MrSuave posted on Day 2 and Day 3. It's ridiculous. We don't need Lowell at L-1 yet, in my opinion.

unvote, vote kitty

. This has struck me the most since the new day opening. Kitty thinks I'm a good lynch, but wants to play it slow and vote someone else. She's setting up a lynch of me, but doesn't want to be the one responsible. If I die and flip town, she'll then be able to pursue scopion or nik, or one of the others more swayed by farside's dying words.

That she's basically attacking a strawman while keeping the option of my lynch open (possibly as the hammer) makes me think she's trying to massage her image.

[Lowell]

@kitty- when I consider the scummiest actions the bandwagon on me after farside's death, then unfortunately OMGUS is what I'm left with.

The more I look at it, the less scorpion or zach really make sense as scum. Clearly farside was trying to set this up after her death, and I doubt the scum would so eagerly jump on this wagon. They'd lose whatever cred they had the following day.

[Lowell]

Suave's "softclaim" doesn't mean anything to me. VT is the default, we're all implicity claiming VT by not claiming otherwise. I actually find 583 otherwise townish, though.

584 is as off has kitty's other posts. The tone of her response to me makes me think she

knows

I'm town.

[Lowell]

Still here. Am happy to answer whatever is asked, and will get back to my hunting in a bit.

[Lowell]

@nhammen- kitty tried to steer a lynch away from me while simultaneously saying how scummy I am. That's what makes me think she just didn't want to be caught on the "wrong" wagon.

@nhammen- I pointed out the inanity of the VT claim because those are the kinds of things that tend to derail towns and give scum a chance to have risk-free meta-arguments that last forever.

[Lowell]

Yah VT. Don't lynch me until I can give you a full list of scum. Thanks.

[Lowell]

Okay I'm a convert. Scorpion, Zach, and especially SC are all town. More thoughts coming.