Open 192: SCIENCE Mafia, Finished

[StrangerCoug]

Vote: Pomegranate

for sucking.

[StrangerCoug]

Slow game is slow, so I'm thinking of a Mafia-related question to ask everybody to try to spark things.

[StrangerCoug]

OK, I got one: How, if at all, would you play a seven-player game differently from a nine- or twelve-player game? Why?

As for me, I would be more cautious about wagons in a small game like this. We mislynch one time and it's LYLO the next day, and we thus don't have as much information then as we usually do.

[StrangerCoug]

On the other hand, Lylo is less dangerous as it is in other setups, as there is a chance we'll enter it with the masons alive: good.

Very interesting point.

[StrangerCoug]

assuming that the first thing you think off is often correct, we should not have long days. That would only make second, third etc wagons making it to the lynch, which is not good for town. Short days are more accurate, and put more pressure on Scum's daygame, giving the same if not more information in less time.

IMO short days show a good working town.

...if we nail scum in those short days.

[StrangerCoug]

So you like it short and concise, is that correct, mykonian?

[StrangerCoug]

I think a little more caution is called for simply because its already an endgame situation with only 7P.

How is it already an endgame situation?

Unvote: Cat. Vote: MrWhereItsAt.

I'm not liking the sudden jump here. I may disagree that we're already in the endgame, but misunderstanding of the setup is not a legitimate tell.

Unvote: Pomegranate
Vote: SaintKerrigan

[StrangerCoug]

MrWhereItsAt should still explain why he thinks we're in an endgame scenario already. As I said, I disagree with that stance also.

[StrangerCoug]

I don't like how Mykonian just jumped on my wagon, solely for agreeing with SC.

This is misspoken. It should read, "I don't like how Mykonian just jumped on my wagon, solely because he agreed with SC's reason for voting me."

What do the rest of you think about this?

While I stand by what I said, mykonian's behavior is disturbing (therefore, I should

FoS

him). What would disturb me even more is if you were hammered just for that and flip town.

I know animorpherv1 said mykonian's vote doesn't count, but I still don't want a lynch so soon, so

unvote: SaintKerrigan

[StrangerCoug]

Well, that was the first use of that vote.

I am very much disappointed in this town, where the reason "I would be disturbed if the lynch was on town" is a reason to unvote and

do nothing afterwards

. Seriously, I warned you 3 posts ahead that I would be doing this, and still the first reaction you have is: "Did he really do that?" followed by a reflexive "unvote".

I would be ok with SC questioning me, I would be ok, with him voting me, I would be ok with him leaving his vote, or moving it to someone completely different for whatever reason, but this is no town behaviour. SC uses his unvote to

seem

towny, as in "see how good I am, I am trying to avoid a mislynch!", while his objective should be to find scum. This is even more obvious seen that my vote actually didn't go through.

Who is more disturbing, the person eager to lynch, or the person that only unvotes, doing no scumhunting at all afterwards?

unvote vote Strangercoug

Hello? Your accusation that I decided to unvote and then stop scumhunting doesn't have as much validity when it's the post right after the unvote.

and why are you having a problem with answering questions? Even if I did forget to answer something, you have nothing to hide, right?

I think you are hiding something

unvote vote SaintKerrigan

This is your third vote in 13 posts. You look like votehopping scum.

Unvote; Vote: Mykonian

.

Tell me, why would scum votehop?

At a bare minimum, you come off as not taking your vote seriously, which is not a pro-town quality to have. Worst case scenario is that you're panicking after realizing your vote is unpopular.

On an unrelated subject, you do not defend cases against you by dodging questions, which is making me like SaintKerrigan more and you less.

Unvote: SaintKerrigan since it was missed not once, but twice (it was in post #44)
Vote: mykonian

[StrangerCoug]

In a game where the mafia have day-talk, they usually have real time strategies that would be risky in a normal game, but becomes easy to do when we can tell our partner what to say. The relation between SK and mykonian seems like one of those. They really do something, but not too much, lightly attack each other when necessary. I would bet that they have day-talk.

hello

...

bye.

BTW, maybe we are already past this, but how many people are up for a policy lynch? I have no idea if Malpa is scum, but even if he isn't, this way he is plain antitown.

Lets put my vote with my words:

unvote vote malpa

malpascp is a village idiot. End of discussion.

[StrangerCoug]

Regardless from that, SC's reluctance to talk about is scummy. VI's don't get a free pass, though scum like to have them in the game. SC's "end of discussion" is a way of defending Malpa. (doesn't matter if malpa is scum or not).

Says the person flailing like mad. I don't care if malpascp bumbles through this game like a three-year-old that does not understand the consequences of his actions; we are not lynching him as I do not see a legitimate case on him.

[StrangerCoug]

And why are you so eager to defend him? This feels a lot like buddying to me.

FoS SC

You know why I'm so eager to defend malpascp? I'm his day mason. Your rolefishing has disabled you from being saved. Goodbye.

[StrangerCoug]

And why are you so eager to defend him? This feels a lot like buddying to me.

FoS SC

You know why I'm so eager to defend malpascp? I'm his day mason. Your rolefishing has disabled you from being saved. Goodbye.

SC... you don't claim the only powerrole we have this easily.

I didn't want to claim. Yes, scum won this battle. However, they will lose the war if we can help it.

Further, if I see someone defend another without reason, that could just be as easily buddying. I have never asked for a claim of whatever, so I was not rolefishing here, but trying to find scum.

News flash #1: There are some situations where it's fine for town to defend town. Cop with an innocent is the situation that comes to mind most often, but mod-confirmed masons are another situation where buddying is OK. It is dangerous for a two-person Mafia team to buddy to each other.

News flash #2: My scum meta is that I bus or go after a VT more often than I buddy to someone.

Hello all! Happy to help out and replace into a game here.

I have a question(s) from my read through.

SK, Malp claimed he believed you and Myo to be scum, yet you claim Malp to be your day mason. Was this even a serious claim? It would seem odd for your apparent day mason to even remotely link you to being a scum.

You confuse strangercough and Saintkerrigan

And you, mykonian, confuse coughing and cougars.

Anyway, now that I know that wolframnhart is talking to me, malpascp made no such post. malpascp suggested mykonian and SaintKerrigan, not mykonian and me, to be scum together. Yes, I seriously mean that claim. Anybody in this game even thinking about fakeclaiming mason is suicidal.

[StrangerCoug]

MrWhereItsAt has requested replacement and Flareonage doesn't want to replace anymore.

Aww

[StrangerCoug]

SC votes me because he thinks I wanted to force the masons to claim. He thinks I should have gotten the obvious link between them as town.

Liar, liar, pants on fire. I voted you for dodging questions. The fishing accusation came later.

The third is partially my mistake, but I saw the defensiveness of SC for Malpa not as an interaction between masons (since malpa wasn't close to a lynch, desperate mason actions were not needed), and I expected the masons to try to be hidden. So I saw the weird move from SC (the defensiveness) as a possible buddying attempt from a scum player when a towny came under attack.

I concede that perhaps I should not as harshly defended my mason, especially on day one. I

DID

try to stay hidden. My personal inexperience with the role cost me there.

[StrangerCoug]

That was awfully sudden, Flareonage, especially since you said you didn't like the lynch and said you wouldn't vote until you had a read on everybody.

FoS.

[StrangerCoug]

You do not just go with the flow. You provide reasons for what you are doing. "Because everybody else is" does not count.

[StrangerCoug]

...that I wrote and the mod borrowed. It's standard not to allow the reversal of a lynch.

[StrangerCoug]

Now Flareonage makes me want to rip my hair out.

[StrangerCoug]

Considering I want the town to lynch Flareonage if you are town and I die tonight...

[StrangerCoug]

aren't you voting for him too?

=failed attempt to shift guilt to a confirmed towny.

no flare, you are responsible for your own actions, and you have showed us here again that the only thing you are really concerned about is staying alive yourself.

Not to mention, Flareonage, that my confidence in the mykonian lynch is decreasing because of you.

[StrangerCoug]

You misunderstood me.

I'm just confused as to why he's so angry for me voting for you since him and his mason buddy are already voting you. Like I said, I'm following the town

...which enables scum to get away with not thinking for themselves and makes them blend in more.

[StrangerCoug]

Well, we have a 2 in 3 chance of lynching someone not a mason randomly and still being in the game, but I'd like that to be an educated 2 in 3 chance. Fortunately for wolframnhart, Flareonage hammered mykonian very sloppily and never really gave us an adequate explanation for the vote.

Vote: Flareonage

[StrangerCoug]

I have only used my ability once, to PM malpascp to let him know that I was trying to breadcrumb it. That was around when I started doing it. He has picked it up, but I have no clue when and he has never PM'd me anything. I'm not against having him replaced as I'd like my ability to be useful—I'm lucky to be alive.

Vote count

Flareoange(1): wolframnhart

Not voting (4):StrangerCoug,Cat,malpascp,Flareonage

With 5 alive it takes 3 to lynch!!

[StrangerCoug]

Fortunately for wolframnhart, Flareonage hammered mykonian very sloppily and never really gave us an adequate explanation for the vote.

Vote: Flareonage

Questions for SC

SC I know you said you were bothered by Flare's hammer, would you have voted for me as swiftly as you did Flare?

Chances are no. While the chances were in my favor knowing that I can rule somebody out as scum, I would have liked to be able to know which of the lynches other than my mason buddy was wrong. Flareonage put no thought in his vote; he flipped scum. I'm happy with what I got.

Looking at it backwards I think not, but from Wolf's direction, could he have gotten that good of a read on you?

His first post was after my mason claim. While he was mistaken at first, he's had a pretty solid read on me when I cleared it up from him, and I think he's right to have such a strong read on me. To fake mason in this game is to throw the game to the town.

I want to probe you guys a little more before I finally cast a vote. I'm leaning towards having Pulindar lynched, partly because I expect wolframnhart to be experienced enough to kill one of malpascp and me on Night 1 if he's scum and partly because Cat was lurking a lot and that's the route I save for when none of the other lynches are good.

Pulindar, do you have a case on wolframnhart other than tunneling Flareonage?

[StrangerCoug]

The main reason for a vote on Cat from both SK and Myko on was for lurking, and for agreeing with Pom, a declared townie. The page they voted for cat was page four, The only page other than page one where he actually posted. Yes he agreed in general with Pom’s argument, but the lines SK drew and Myko commented on, with them as a scum pair was obviously false, because Pom was Townie. Then Cat just plain quit the game. Because he never answered Myko’s questions Myko kept suspecting him, but Cat wasn’t there to answer them. Everyone was also suspecting Malp, who only survived because you claimed Mason with Malp. I, as VT, Unfortunately, don’t have anyone to back up my claim.

Yeah. The VT knows everybody at this point, but has the disadvantage of having to convince me that they're scum and defend scum's case. I would also seriously consider malpascp as lurking scum if I weren't his mason buddy, and I usually leave lurkers alone hoping for them to get replaced.

Then on page five, after all this was drawn by SK:

SaimtKerrigan has reuqested replacement. Hoping to get someone soon

Night kill:

Hmm so the scum waited to the last minute to send in a kill

I can confirm this part, but not the rest.

Let's put it this way, they are the real masons.

Why?

because no one counter claimed them

The most likely situation of why they were not killed?
Because Cat was not around to tell Flare what a mason means. Flare barely sent in a night kill in time, and picked a random person, completely missing the obvious kill of a mason he should have done.

Get rid of Pom early makes it so that there is only one townie to focus on. Everyone knew that the Scum was scum, so Wolf had to go along with that. Like I said earlier, I think he read you on that and went full forward with a strong buss. It was a good play, Wolf’s a smart cookie for sure. Still, earlier you asked why would Wolf kill Pom and not you or Malp. Well, because even though you guys were Masons, he knew how you would play. I don’t think he felt as confident about Pom’s play. Also, if he didn’t kill Pom then there would be more suspects for later. We would take more time discussing things. Pom’s presence would take away from a case against me, and my presence from a case against her. Still, Cat was weaker than Pom, so it was obvious, kill Pom not Cat.
Also, I think he wanted to be able to point at the kill and claim it wasn’t him. Obviously couldn’t have been him. Etc etc. Say that it was scummy for not being on and blame Cat for his lurkiness based on the later submission. But the Scum was on, Flare could have voted any of those days, at any point along that deadline, why didn’t he? Flare cast his die quickly earlier, someone must have been holding him back, someone smart must have been controlling the action. Since I know that Wolf is remaining scum, I know that he was probably the mastermind.

It's possible that wolframnhart is trying to play me. Every game I can remember playing favorites, I've lost.

Second NK was your partner, Wolf already has you more convinced of his innocence than I do, I think he left you alive because he believed that you would follow his lead. all Wolf needed to do was manipulate the you, and with cat quitting without warning (Just like Malp) he had the game in the bag. I believe he’s trying to rush through the game now that I’m here so that not much can be brought up. I hope you make the right decision, for Town’s sake.

Interesting theory.

Good luck on this StrangerCougar (btw do you prefer StrangerCougar, Stranger Cougar, or StrangerCoug?)

Either the first or the third will work. The third one is because I tried to uses the first one as my name on another site, but it was too long, and I have rarely bothered adding the last two letters back.

I have to go to work, so let me think this over and I'll vote when I get back.

[StrangerCoug]

Strangercoug is there anything you want to ask me before you vote?

There is, actually. Why should I follow my gut as opposed to my logic and believe you are not WIFOM'ing me by getting me to think scum would behave a specific way? I've realized that I've tried to predict scum, which is not something I like doing.

[StrangerCoug]

I doubt this truely answers your question but as i said, it is difficult to tell a person to go with their gut (assuming your gut means to vote Pulindar) and ignore logic. If for some reason one of my posts has made you think scum in your logic please point it out so I may explain before you drop the hammer on either of us.

I like Pulindar's case on you and see little problem with it.

it is difficult to tell a person to go with their gut (assuming your gut means to vote Pulindar) and ignore logic.

Yeah, I think gut means that he'd lynch me. SC is asking you to help him go with his gut after all.

This is basically correct. My gut suggests that wolframnhart wouldn't be idiotic scum and that you'd have to be scum by process of elimination; the logic you are giving me is that wolframnhart is playing me. The million dollar question is if I trust my logic read or my gut read. This is going to be very difficult, and I know I'll hate myself if I pick wrong.

[StrangerCoug]

Sigh... I'm going with my logic read here. Hope it works out...

Vote: wolframnhart

[StrangerCoug]

Didn't see Pulindar's post. Oh well, both are around to tell me if I'm right...

[StrangerCoug]

Also

Shame on you stranger!!!

I am insulted you think as a scum I would send in anything but a mason kill, especially a strong player like you, who would have been gone on night one without hesitation.

As I said, I was going to hate myself if I was wrong. I have never won LYLO when I was the one that had to hammer.

Note to self: Gut beats logic.

[StrangerCoug]

Sorry again StrangerCougar I prefer to be town or third party to being scum. I've not played them, but I'm sure I prefer them. I don't enjoy the lying.

I know another person on this site who hates being pretty much anything but VT. He's a very good player, too, and rarely finds himself lynched.

And if I have hard feelings against anybody, it's myself. I must be cursed with being a bad Mafia player or something like that.

During the night, the 2 remaining mafia huddeled to decide their kill for the night. Should it be StrangerCoug, the claimed mason? malpascp, the lurker? wolfamnhart, the newbie, or Pomegegranate, the girl?

Still, it was a fun experience. I want to be on your guys' side next time

While we're on this, do we get a rematch? This

WAS

a fun setup.

[StrangerCoug]

You'd have to go all the way through the queue again, but at the very least you can try to get her to run it again.

[StrangerCoug]

Please don't pick your nightkill targets out of the blue. It's harder to win that way and you got off lucky.

[StrangerCoug]

I didn't think the rematch question would be taken seriously, but hey, I'm /in.

[StrangerCoug]

I didn't think the rematch question would be taken seriously, but hey, I'm /in.

[StrangerCoug]

Damn this Internet.