Open 188 - Tweed Mafia - Over!

[Jazzmyn]

Don't get your knickers in a twist. My notes are lengthy and it takes time to summarize them into manageable sized chunks for each player. I'm nearly done.

Regards,
Jazz

[Jazzmyn]

All right, over the next two or three of my posts are the condensed version of my game notes and my reads on players. I'm breaking it down into a few posts so as not to create a gigantic wall of text all in one post.

Locke Lamora: lurktastic beyond belief. Come on, 5 posts in the entire game, over a period of 3+ weeks? This guy needs to be replaced stat.

nhammen: suspicious for replacing in and then seeming to ignore the vast majority of the game, posting only three small snippets from three players and calling them his scum list. There was a heck of a lot more to comment on than those three snippets, and yet he pretty much ignored everything else in the game. He has only 11 posts so there isn't a lot more to say about him yet, but from what I've seen so far, colour me unimpressed. About the NK speculation: not only should it be avoided, but nhammen got it (conveniently) wrong when he said that yabbaguy was most suspicious of farside, SC and Zach. Yabbaguy set out quite clearly in his last post of the game that he was most suspicious of farside, nhammen, XS and Zach, in that order.

Kitty: I'm not sure about her but there are several things in her posts that stood out for me in a negative way. I didn't like the pointless questions in post 15, which might be designed to look like doing something while not doing anything worthwhile at all; in 27, she answered her own questions, also quite pointless, but I notice that she managed to slip in an unnecessary soft claim, which is scummy. I didn't like her snipping at yabba for questioning her "plan" and responding to him with snark coupled with what looks like an appeal to emotion. In 172, in her response to XS's accusations against her, she utilizes WIFOM "IMO it would be stupid for scum to put themselves in the spotlight at the very beginning of the game. That's exactly what they're trying NOT to do" which is meh. Also, I see a possible slip when she says, "I can see that you find what I did to be stupid and/or anti-town. But do you really think what I did made me more likely to be

town

?" (my bolding) For that sentence to make any sense, that should have said scum, not town. Then, she responded further to XS in 183 and 185 but then abruptly refused to do so any further. I'm not a fan of "this discussion is over" type of copouts. In 242, shortly before deadline, she made extremely weak cases on a few players: top scum suspect Lowell because of "bad vibes"; XS for "being a hypocrite" and "tunneling horribly"; SC "just a gut feeling; Zach "because if he's scum he wants her dead asap"; and MrS because of his preoccupation with Nik and because she can’t read him. None of those are legitimate cases.

MrSuave: did nothing but focus on Nikanor the entire day, which is not at all helpful, particularly as his argument (if one can call it that) is based solely on meta (which, it appears, was not accurate either) and the fact that the two are friends in real life. The problem (for me) is that he did the same thing in the last game that I played with him and he was town in that game and he was right about Nikanor being scum. That said, Nikanor is right about MrS not playing so confidently before. In the game I played with them, MrS lurked through the first half of that game and only later came out strongly against Nikanor. Also, I really don't like how he dodged Nikanor's question about the meta from a prior game. That looks like he was trying really hard to avoid answering a question because he knew that the answer was not going to be favourable to him.

More to follow.

Regards,
Jazz

[Lowell]

It's not clear to me why SUGGESTING a hypoclaim is scummy. I for one think it would be a good idea, and there might be others out there as well if not for the power of the mob to shoot the idea down before even knowing what I'm talking about. There are a lot of twitchy players out there and I don't like it.

If Suave and I are scum, whatsay we lynch Suave first, okay?

@farside- I am acting out... a little. The way zach clings to the mindless accusations on me suggest to me that he's scum. In ISO I've yet to see him do anything without mass public support, which is not exactly the most townish behavior.

The fact is both zach and scorpion says it was scummy.
kittymo called it role fishing. Why are you attacking zach only on this?

Because he's the one trying to get the most mileage out of his self-righteous faux scum-hunting.

[Jazzmyn]

StrangerCoug: His vote on Kitty in post 61 was pretty poor. Even worse is his later trying to justify it by claiming that Kitty was "stalling discussion" by her response to yabba's questioning of her "plan". That wasn't "stalling discussion" - that was snark and a bit of an appeal to emotion. I don't know whether this is SC distancing from Kitty or just jumping on a bandwagon with a crap reason. I also find it suspicious how SC telegraphed his vote for MrS (150) before making it and then seemed to have to be prodded by yabba into actually laying down the vote (more on this when I get to farside), despite saying "Now I am sure." Something just doesn't feel right about that although, again, I waffle a bit on this because of that last game with Nikanor and MrS, because SC was in that game, too, and I know that he was absolutely convinced that MrS was scum in that game, and I remember being suspicious of MrS then too, even though he turned out to be town. So, part of me understands SC's hesitation here, but I still don't understand the "Now I am sure" part. Then, at 203, SC moved his vote to XS after SC voted for Lowell and potentially tied Lowell to Kitty as scum, which I don't know what to make of. I didn't like his post 229 where he said he hadn't noticed anyone lurking, as it was bloody obvious that Scott/nhammen and Locke Lamora were both lurking up a storm at that point so badly that they had posted virtually no content at all. I note this because I think it's very telling that a player doesn't notice that there are severe lurkers at that point in a game (i.e. approaching deadline), which makes me think that scum is pretending not to notice a lurking scumpartner. Lastly, SC's late change of vote in 261 looks bad to me. He unvoted XS saying, "let's make my vote useful" but instead of voting for Lowell who was the only player likely to be lynched at the deadline by that point (as he had 5 votes to Zach's 3 and MrS's 2), he moved his vote to MrS, which was pretty pointless, and not "useful" as he claimed.


Nikanor: all the back and forth with MrS was a grind, although Nikanor was ultimately right about MrS's meta arguments against him. Unfortunately, because of this being such a huge distraction, both Nikanor and MrS got away with not talking about much of anything else for the whole day. So, I have no solid read on Nikanor yet.

Zachrulez: Nothing in Zach's posts so far has screamed scummy to me, other than a deflection in one of his posts to Lowell, in which he deflected suspicion onto MrS regarding meta.

Lowell: This one is pinging my scumdar. In 45, he votes Zach for sketchy reasons. In 87, he seeks more interest in a Zach wagon "if folks aren’t doing anything other than telling jokes" but he was simultaneously ignoring questions still on the table for him and, as far as I can tell, people weren't making jokes. Lowell, what did you mean by people making jokes? Were you trying to downplay XS's stupid posts there? They were stupid, but they weren't "jokes" as far as I can tell. It's already been noted, but Lowell was also calling others lurky while he actually had been a whole lot lurkier than the players he was calling out. I don't understand Lowell's case on Zach. It appears to have something to do with meta, but I don't know what it is. Lowell, can you please explain this to me? Subsequently, Lowell follows farside on to the MrS wagon, again calling MrS "lurky" while Lowell had only 7 posts of his own to MrS's 15. Looks like just an excuse to jump on to a wagon, and doesn't really make sense since he claimed yesterday (and today) that Zach was his prime suspect. Then today, the call for a hypocop massclaim - that is a

really

bad idea and helps only the scum. Losing your composure and calling everyone "idiots" for reacting to such a bad idea, is also meh.

More to follow.

Regards,
Jazz

[StrangerCoug]

StrangerCoug: His vote on Kitty in post 61 was pretty poor. Even worse is his later trying to justify it by claiming that Kitty was "stalling discussion" by her response to yabba's questioning of her "plan". That wasn't "stalling discussion" - that was snark and a bit of an appeal to emotion. I don't know whether this is SC distancing from Kitty or just jumping on a bandwagon with a crap reason.

Perhaps my ideal of everybody thinking for themselves isn't true. In real life, I'm the kind of person that likes to teach a man to fish rather than give him a fish.

I also find it suspicious how SC telegraphed his vote for MrS (150) before making it and then seemed to have to be prodded by yabba into actually laying down the vote (more on this when I get to farside), despite saying "Now I am sure." Something just doesn't feel right about that although, again, I waffle a bit on this because of that last game with Nikanor and MrS, because SC was in that game, too, and I know that he was absolutely convinced that MrS was scum in that game, and I remember being suspicious of MrS then too, even though he turned out to be town. So, part of me understands SC's hesitation here, but I still don't understand the "Now I am sure" part.

I have a scummy meta of MrSuave. My question was if it was his playstyle or legitimately scummy actions; I have decided the latter, hence "Now I am sure." I know that I have a scummy meta, but I also know that there are scum tells that still work well on me. That's how I'm going about MrSuave.

Then, at 203, SC moved his vote to XS after SC voted for Lowell and potentially tied Lowell to Kitty as scum, which I don't know what to make of.

Speak up when you do know, but the Lowell-KittyMo scum connection was something I accused XScorpion of stretching to make, not a connection I made myself. I didn't view Lowell as suspicious until I voted him.

I didn't like his post 229 where he said he hadn't noticed anyone lurking, as it was bloody obvious that Scott/nhammen and Locke Lamora were both lurking up a storm at that point so badly that they had posted virtually no content at all. I note this because I think it's very telling that a player doesn't notice that there are severe lurkers at that point in a game (i.e. approaching deadline), which makes me think that scum is pretending not to notice a lurking scumpartner.

As I said, I forgot Locke Lamore was even in the game. You can't be called out for lurking in a game in which you are not playing, can you? Therefore, my thinking, though I must admit that you have a good point.

Lastly, SC's late change of vote in 261 looks bad to me. He unvoted XS saying, "let's make my vote useful" but instead of voting for Lowell who was the only player likely to be lynched at the deadline by that point (as he had 5 votes to Zach's 3 and MrS's 2), he moved his vote to MrS, which was pretty pointless, and not "useful" as he claimed.

I thought the distribution of votes between them was more even.

[Jazzmyn]

And finally, farside. I'm calling scum.

farside: in post 40, she tries to gloss over Kitty asking Zach what behaviour he finds scummy. Zach was absolutely right not to answer that question whether he's town or scum, because it only helps scum. So, why was farside so eager to get an answer to the question in the face of a reasonable objection to it? And so eager to vote for Zach when he wouldn't answer it? Then she unvoted Zach when confronted with the obvious answer - i.e. that it only helps scum. But farside is a very experienced player. She knows that answering that question will only help scum. Thus her trying to push it is scummy. And her backing off as quickly as she did makes it look like she wanted to downplay the matter in hopes that she wouldn't be called out on it. There's a lot of defending/buddying going on between farside and Kitty throughout day 1, in my view (from farside's very first post, in fact). Seriously, do an iso read of farside's Day 1 posts and you will find that all she did was talk about Kitty and meta, and cast a few votes for weak reasons. There is no scumhunting and no analysis, and that is just not the town-farside to whom I have grown accustomed.

After saying that meta is over-rated and that she doesn't use it, she then does nothing but talk about meta in half of her posts and she uses it to justify her votes. She voted for Nikanor on the basis of MrS's purported meta on Nikanor, but she never looked to see if it was accurate. Later, she voted for MrS purportedly because the meta he presented on Nikanor was not accurate. (Want to bet whether she actually read the links provided? My money says a resounding 'no'.) So, she claims that meta is useless and then relies upon nothing but meta to vote both Nikanor and MrS. This is scummy.

Then there is her weird question about "what is the best way to get out of RVS?" which is misplaced and entirely useless, but her explanation for it is utterly ridiculous. To me, it looks like she posed the question to give cover to scumbuddies, and to look like she was participating meaningfully in the game while in fact she was not. See her eventual, belated response to yabba's question on this in her post 225. It doesn't even begin to make sense. This, to me, looks like scum scrambling to cover up for a bad move. (As an aside, I also note that she said it was a question from Zach when it was actually a question from yabba - don't know why that is, but just noting it.)

In 141, she simply regurgitates points that others had already made, again to me it looks like she's just trying to pretend to scumhunt.

Then after SC telegraphs in his post 150 that he is going to vote for MrS, farside immediately votes for MrS. Classic scum move - see where someone's vote is likely to go and then go there yourself first so that you're on the wagon earlier and not in a position of having to hammer later on.

Basically, throughout Day 1, she did no scumhunting, did some fishing for things that would help scum, is all over Kitty either defending or buddying, and is contradictory in her use of meta as the basis of her votes. Then today, she subtly suggests that Lowell's hypodoc massclaim is a good idea in her post 280: "This helps protect the cops from outing their results directly and leaves a breadcrumb for the town incase the cop is killed during the night.”

Hypoclaiming does not "help protect the cops" - it helps the scum figure out who the cops are. Plain and simple.

That link that Zach posted in 283 to another game where hypoclaim was done in a game with 2 cops is a good example. It helped the scum tremendously and helped the town not at all. But here's the clincher: farside was in that game, using an alt, and she had to know that the hypoclaim was a bad idea. Yet, in this game, here she was supporting the idea, and she never mentioned that she played in the very game that was linked in this thread.

Scummy scum scum.

She backed off of her post 280 somewhat in her posts 285 and 289 but again, she knows that it is bad for town and she still supported it in her 285 and did not speak up about how or why it is so bad for town.

Vote: farside

Regards,
Jazz

[Zachrulez]

It's interesting that a few people started harping on Jazz for not posting yesterday in a game with multiple lurkers.

I find it's generally a bad idea to promise a post because I always get lazy and put it off...

Anyway, what I find interesting on top of Jazz's points on Strangercoug not noticing people lurking on day 1 is the way he seemed to be drawing attention to Jazz's lack of timeliness on her promised content . That just seems really off to me

[Zachrulez]

That link that Zach posted in 283 to another game where hypoclaim was done in a game with 2 cops is a good example. It helped the scum tremendously and helped the town not at all. But here's the clincher: farside was in that game, using an alt, and she had to know that the hypoclaim was a bad idea. Yet, in this game, here she was supporting the idea, and she never mentioned that she played in the very game that was linked in this thread.

I did reference that game because I knew she played in it. (My wife was also in that game, that's how I'm aware of it.)

For what it's worth, I read the first few pages of that game, and she was pro-hypoclaim in that game. (Which is worth noting because she was town in that game)

[StrangerCoug]

Anyway, what I find interesting on top of Jazz's points on Strangercoug not noticing people lurking on day 1 is the way he seemed to be drawing attention to Jazz's lack of timeliness on her promised content . That just seems really off to me

One, Nikanor was the first to bring it up, by calling her a liar when it didn't get posted the night she said she would. In fact, when I do, I address him. Two, I was unwilling to put stock in it because some RL issue of hers always seems to come up in games we're in together.

[farside22]

I'm going to go over the hypo claim and where my thoughts on it came from first

http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=8924

This is the game I was mod in. They did a hypoclaim for the cop (fbi) and even though I knew who the cop was it actually confused the mafia more then helped. If fact the mafia guessed completely wrong and lost.


http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=8932

This game I was mafia and suggested the hypoclaim. Although in our scum chats it narrowed down suspects for us we still guessed wrong with the hypoclaim on who was what.
So yes it narrow's it down as scum know their claims are BS but the rest they have either a assumption based on the claims or town does the worst picks without reason which helps the scum.
in both cases this helped from outing a power role to the scum and helped the town more.
The only reason I'm not saying lets do this is because of the WIFOM with the tailor in the game. The cop results can be corrupted.

[XScorpion]

@Jazz - You forgot me

[Lowell]

I'm going to go over the hypo claim and where my thoughts on it came from first

http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=8924

This is the game I was mod in. They did a hypoclaim for the cop (fbi) and even though I knew who the cop was it actually confused the mafia more then helped. If fact the mafia guessed completely wrong and lost.


http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=8932

This game I was mafia and suggested the hypoclaim. Although in our scum chats it narrowed down suspects for us we still guessed wrong with the hypoclaim on who was what.
So yes it narrow's it down as scum know their claims are BS but the rest they have either a assumption based on the claims or town does the worst picks without reason which helps the scum.
in both cases this helped from outing a power role to the scum and helped the town more.
The only reason I'm not saying lets do this is because of the WIFOM with the tailor in the game. The cop results can be corrupted.

Cop results would be corrupted either way. Don't see how that's an issue. This looks like weird waffling from farside.

Again, I'm not married to the idea of a hypoclaim and am happy to let it die for at least another day if that's what folks want. I am, however, surprised by the speed of the response against it. Not sure why the conversation itself frightens everyone, but for some reason it does.

[Zachrulez]

Hypoclaiming does not "help protect the cops" - it helps the scum figure out who the cops are. Plain and simple.

And I will quote why... once again.

If we were to hypoclaim, the scum could look at all the hypoclaims knowing exactly what results make sense and what results don't.

So pretty much what is going to happen is that the cop's results are going to make sense no matter what if they tell the truth about the results they received from the mod, and more than likely at least some of the vanillas are going to claim results that make no sense and the scum are going to instantly know it, and cross their name off the list of potential cops. (Which is exactly what the scum are hoping for.)

So once again, I fail to see how a hypoclaim will help "protect the cops."

[Jazzmyn]

It's interesting that a few people started harping on Jazz for not posting yesterday in a game with multiple lurkers.

That is an interesting point to note, actually. *Takes names and adds to notes*

I find it's generally a bad idea to promise a post because I always get lazy and put it off...

I don't usually get lazy and put things off and, particularly when I'm replacing into a game, I like to give the rest of the players a head's up as to my anticipated ETA for content. That said, I could not possibly have anticipated the unexpected event that delayed my substantive posting, which involved a not-particularly-bright dog that I was substitute dog-sitting for a day and night, the dog ending up in my emptied-for-the-winter swimming pool, an utterly destroyed pool liner, thousands of dollars worth of damage, and an insurance claim to sort out). It wasn't pretty. Nothing serious, but unexpected and time consuming to deal with.

For what it's worth, I read the first few pages of that game, and she was pro-hypoclaim in that game. (Which is worth noting because she was town in that game)

Indeed, but two things.

1) farside had to know that she played in that game with an alt but she never mentioned it when you posted the link or when she quoted your post (so either she didn't read it or she hoped to hide the fact that she was in that game with an alt - either way, not pro-town play); and
2) in the post-game, in which farside also participated, the scum mentioned how helpful to them the hypoclaiming had been, which should have been a sufficient basis for farside to renounce it in the strongest of terms in THIS game as soon as the suggestion was made, rather than supporting it and claiming that it helps protect cops, etc.

I'm also noting that SC in his post 291 proposed hypodoc claiming, too (I'd missed that previously), and he has not said a word in response to all of the very sound arguments for why it is a bad idea.

One, Nikanor was the first to bring it up, by calling her a liar when it didn't get posted the night she said she would.

This is true. Nikanor brought it up first, but please note that I did not "say I would" - rather, I gave my "best estimate". Nikanor was definitely out of line for calling me a "liar" as he did, and it is suspicious to me that he hasn't said a word about those who are actually lurking, and instead choosing to call me a "liar" solely on the basis of being unable to meet my best estimate of when I would be able to post.

That said, your "checks watch" bit when I said that I would have something up in a couple of hours was also a bit much. I mean, seriously, did you have nothing to do but watch the clock waiting for a post from me? You know, like scumhunting, perhaps?

Two, I was unwilling to put stock in it because some RL issue of hers always seems to come up in games we're in together.

Yes, it's true that you indicated that you weren't "ready to call it a bad thing" and yes, unfortunately, my life is not uncomplicated by RL issues sometimes interfering with my games. On the up side, in this instance, it was just a stupid dog and a ruined pool liner, nothing serious.

I'm going to go over the hypo claim and where my thoughts on it came from first

http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=8924

This is the game I was mod in. They did a hypoclaim for the cop (fbi) and even though I knew who the cop was it actually confused the mafia more then helped. If fact the mafia guessed completely wrong and lost.

Very different game there, no mafia kills, a SK, no scum chat to look at (that I could see), no evidence that the hypoclaim didn't help them, no evidence that the "mafia guessed completely wrong and lost", particularly in light of a SK making an entirely ludicrous fake claim of being the FBI agent and then self hammering, and frankly entirely irrelevant.

http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=8932

This game I was mafia and suggested the hypoclaim. Although in our scum chats it narrowed down suspects for us we still guessed wrong with the hypoclaim on who was what.

I don't see any scumchats linked there either. Convenient, that. But the fact remains that any hypocop claim helps the scum.

And why didn't you mention that you were in that two cop game that Zach linked earlier, or mention that the scum said the hypodoc claim helped them in that game?

So yes it narrow's it down as scum know their claims are BS but the rest they have either a assumption based on the claims or town does the worst picks without reason which helps the scum.
in both cases this helped from outing a power role to the scum and helped the town more.

This is a nonsensical answer. It's easy not to out the power roles to the scum by, you know, not outing the power roles to the scum and by, you know, not narrowing the field for them by doing something stupid like hypoclaiming.

The only reason I'm not saying lets do this is because of the WIFOM with the tailor in the game. The cop results can be corrupted.

This is also a nonsensical answer. You were supporting the hypodoc suggestion until you started to take some heat for it.

@Jazz - You forgot me

Hmph. Don't know how that happened. I'll add my notes on you in my next post.

Regards,
Jazz

[Zachrulez]

Indeed, but two things.

1) farside had to know that she played in that game with an alt but she never mentioned it when you posted the link or when she quoted your post (so either she didn't read it or she hoped to hide the fact that she was in that game with an alt - either way, not pro-town play); and

I agree that doesn't look paticularly good for Farside.

2) in the post-game, in which farside also participated, the scum mentioned how helpful to them the hypoclaiming had been, which should have been a sufficient basis for farside to renounce it in the strongest of terms in THIS game as soon as the suggestion was made, rather than supporting it and claiming that it helps protect cops, etc.

From my memory, she spent a good deal of time arguing with White Castle over the final town lynch in lylo. I'm not sure how much attention she did or didn't pay to what the scum noted.

That's mainly the major doubt that's running through my mind that's keeping her from being my top suspect.

I'm also noting that SC in his post 291 proposed hypodoc claiming, too (I'd missed that previously), and he has not said a word in response to all of the very sound arguments for why it is a bad idea.

He did? I looked at the post, but I didn't see this.

[Jazzmyn]

Here is the condensed version of my notes on XScorpion.

XScorpion: In his 78, he self voted in response to a post saying the best way to get out of RVS is to do something stupid (could be joking or it could be a way to remove his 'random' vote from MrS). In 84, he voted SC for no discernible reason other than SC asking if XS would like to be useful or whether SC should switch his vote over to XS (potential distancing?) and in 86, he asked SC to pretty please vote for him (this is stupid). In 116, XS unvoted SC and voted Kitty right after SC was put into the leading bandwagon position by yabba, making the new leading bandwagon Kitty's (possible partner or buddying to SC). The reasoning for the Kitty vote seems weak (sidenote: farside’s reaction to it is interesting, though – she says in her 141, “116 I would say it's hard to take you seriously. You're actions are either anti-town/scum or town trying to promote discussion and using traps to bait scum” – wtf does that even mean? I seriously think she is scum.)

Then XS lurks and finally posts at 160, “Kitty come back” and when yabba asks him to continue because he’s still lurking, he says he will when Kitty answers his accusation (which is not a good answer, and I really dislike lurkers); but then he does get back into things when Kitty shows back up and he does a reasonably good job with his subsequent posts. Post 200 is pretty good, and his vote on Lowell has reasoning behind it. On Day 2, XS revotes Lowell and in 271, discourages NK speculation, which is good, but a bit dismissively (could be because he doesn't want players to notice that yabba found farside, him, and nhammen scummy before he was NKed), and the wording of the post bothers me a bit: "I tend to find that night-kill speculation just leads to WIFOM and nothing useful for town. If you want to discuss it, go ahead, but I'm still gonna put my vote back where it was. As for yabbaguy, I'm convinced that his death was as simple as him being seen by scum as the most pro-town player." I.e., he says it only leads to wifom and nothing useful and tells SC if he wants to discuss it to go ahead, but then XS discusses it anyway in his very next sentence.

Then there's this: "I'm much more interested in if there were any successful investigations (indicating scum)" which isn't bad but could potentially be fishing for cop roleclaims. But then he calls Lowell obvscum for suggesting mass cop claiming, which is good because mass cop claiming would be bad (although it doesn't necessarily make Lowell obvscum).

Overall neutral, leaning town.

Regards,
Jazz

[StrangerCoug]

I'm also noting that SC in his post 291 proposed hypodoc claiming, too (I'd missed that previously), and he has not said a word in response to all of the very sound arguments for why it is a bad idea.

You took me out of context. I concede to saying little to all the arguments against it, but I was against it too, not in favor of it. By "I don't care if we all massclaimed 'I investigated X and got a Y on them'," I meant that I view it as scummy as proposing that the two cops out themselves, which I interpreted Lowell as saying in what I quoted in 291. I wanted a step ahead of Lowell, and I believe he backtracked into saying the hypoclaims were all he wanted.

[Jazzmyn]

He did? I looked at the post, but I didn't see this.

Yes, he did. Here:

I don't care if we all claimed "I investigated X and got a Y on them".

That's a call for a hypocop claim, the way I read it.

Regards,
Jazz

[StrangerCoug]

And I just refuted that it was.

[Jazzmyn]

I must be missing something. How is that not suggesting a mass hypocop claim?

Regards,
Jazz

[StrangerCoug]

Here's the relevant part of post 291:

Any chance we should do some sort of mass copclaim situation? Can we use two cops to our advantage here or what?

What!? We don't need them outed yet. They can do just fine hidden. I don't care if we all claimed "I investigated X and got a Y on them".

Note the tone of this post: it and what I say suggest that I

DO

object to hypoclaiming. If I didn't, the word "however" or something to similar effect would be in the same sentence or I would start a new paragraph before putting that. Your interpretation of the last sentence doesn't fit with what's before it.

[farside22]

First I never said I was for the idea. I saw the pro's and con's but never said lets do it. Also as scum it helped but wasn't a garentee. Do not put words in my mouth there were not there.
As scum it's easy to see if someone is just BS'ing if they are terrible with hypo claim and claim something dumb. However there is guessing it it.
As for the game zach brought up. No I didn't look at it because I was commenting on those (1) I remembered off the top of my head and (2) was commenting more on the fact it wasn't a novel concept.

[farside22]

Looking now at the game that zach mentioned I don't remember much about it. It was during the time I was starting to fade from mafia so I would have to reread the game over again to see why it hurt the town in that game.

[Jazzmyn]

@ Mod: Can you please prod or replace Locke Lamora?

Regards,
Jazz

[DTMaster]

Sorry I've been working for most of the week. I will prod LL again, and have a potential replacement lined up. Vote counts will proceede when I'm done