Newbie 888 - Game Over!

[Magic Trainer]

/confirm

[Magic Trainer]

Cool, I hope we can start this. I'd just like to say I'v played and watched a few mafia games on over forums but this is my first game here.

[Magic Trainer]

Oh jeez, I'm already growing parnoid, I feel like voting Lastsurvivor because he's talking the most but then again a mafia wouldn't want to draw attention to themselves... right?

Vote: Kyiv

Because she's the person posting above me.

[Magic Trainer]

Oh jeez, I'm already growing parnoid

Why are you feeling already paranoid? This is your first post of the day. Is it simply because of the fact that anyone might be scum, or is it that you actually might be scum and the pressure that the town might find you is causing the paranoia? This is probably a very weak argument, but at this point, it may be good enough for a Day 1 vote for me, and it's better than a vote by pure randomness. (This coming from the guy called RandomMaster)

Vote: Magic Trainer

For the reason posted above, and for the fact that he wrote paranoid wrong, in a game where it is everywhere.

Yes, the fact that anyone could be scum is what's making me paranoid. I feel like you're just jumping on me for saying something but I guess I can understand how you feel. I don't have much more to say unless you want to continue this conversation?

[Magic Trainer]

Yes, I feel like I may have jumped, but the vote actually has 2 reasons behind it.

1. I wanted to do a vote that had some hints of logic behind it, may they be weak. Even though many consider this as the RVS, I feel like much can be learned in these firsts couple of days, and randomly voting someone off isn't going to help the town. A vote with some bits of reasonning behind it is better than picking someone at random and voting for said person.

2. I feel like there may be a hint of bandwagonning towards Kyiv, and you seemed to have jumped on it. I'm wondering that is the only reason why you voted her is that she posted over you, or is there another reason?

As I said, I understand why you voted for me. Saying this is most likely goign to make me look scummy but I just want to point this out, if I was scum I wouldn't say I was paranoid because of pressure, or at least not when no one at the time was accusing me.

1. Got it, but wouldn't random voting lead to people defending themselves eachother which would not only have a chance to reveal people's allegiances but the night kill itself would help give some clues the next morning as to who the scum is? Both methods seem fine, I would rather have it everyone uses logic.

2. My reason is exactly as I said, when I saw this game start I skimmed the thread and then I voted. Then I looked over the thread once again, I didn't look at the vote tally until after I voted. I'd change my vote but at the time I have no reason to. (I guess I should look back again to make a more educated vote.)

[Magic Trainer]

As I said, I understand why you voted for me. Saying this is most likely goign to make me look scummy but I just want to point this out, if I was scum I wouldn't say I was paranoid because of pressure, or at least not when no one at the time was accusing me.

If you were a scum, you could be paranoid, because you saw your friend looks suspicious.

Could you please be more specific as to who my friend is, right now I don't really see anyone being accused other than myself.

@Random, one thing I would like to ask you.

1. Why didn't you mention my vote for Kyiv in your first accusation? Were you just trying to build up on your theory after I posted or were you just looking for things to use in order to lynche me?

[Magic Trainer]

What this is showing to me is you aren't paying attention to the thread properly and seems like you don't care who gets lynched, as long as it someone. What if your vote had been the lynch vote on an early RVS bandwagon? Why do you say you would change your vote? I'm under the assumption it was simply a random vote. Yet you are quick to say you would change it. If you feel that the vote was unwarranted to begin with, why make the vote to start with?

As I said before, I skimmed through the thread then voted becaus I was excited the game had begun. You're right, my vote was just a simple vote, and while I do want to make a better educated vote it's harder to do in this phase because at the time we have no solid evidence.

The reason I said I wanted to change it was I would have felt it would have been better to question/vote for a player who was not being questioned at the time. Such as Walrus right now, I feel like he's just lurking so I would prefer to change my vote to him but I believe my vote for the time being is good enough unless something turns up that can change my mind. I made a vote because I wanted to be part of the discussion and voice my opinion, and possibly contribute to lynching a scum, but that's why everyone votes isn't it?

@Random

I was curious at to if you were scum there could have been a possibility that you were the scum and you just wanted to take your accusation then slap on my vote to make me look guilty. Then you might have thought as you said my defense was good and others would not agree with you so you decided to change your vote and try to lynche someone else.

Right now I believe Random has a chance to be good, the scum however I don't a clue on hower I do suspect Walrus has a chance of being scum. I want to wait and see his defense before/if I change my vote.

[Magic Trainer]

So you feel that a random vote based on the fact that it was the person posting above you is better than voting someone because they were, as you believe, "lurking". Assume for this situation that the lurking is a viable reason. In a situation where someone is truly lurking, they are harming the town by not posting, searching for information and scumtells, or trying to hide from suspicion. So do you believe that is not a good enough reason to turn away from a random vote for something with a logical reason behind it?

Ff you've read my post I said I

felt

like he was lurking not that I was 100% sure. The game itself started only a few hours (I might have this wrong) before but everyone other than Walrus had posted which leads me to believe that there is a possibility of him lurking. I have also said I wanted to hear Walrus's defense before I changed my vote which was why I chose not to change my vote right away. Now that I he posted I know that he wasn't lurking, I prefer to be sure about this things and find more about the current situation instead of changing my mind every few posts. The answer to your question would be a "Yes" However my thougts about Walrus lurking were incorrect and as I just said I wanted to be sure before I changed my vote.

-----

Reading over this thread again I believe Lastsurviver is our best bet as to who the scum are.

First off his very early misinterpretation seems odd. It's the first round and those were the very first posts of the game, he says he's played two games on this site so he would know that in the random voting round people would just joke around. Instead he already got defensive.

Post 31

It's not OMGUS on my part. Just Random voting

Now when he's being questioned about it I feel like he's just saying "yeah yeah whatever." Well first off I think it's safe to assume he's getting irritated by being asked this but why? We haven't asked him too many times for him to get angry so soon, I think he's feel pressured by these questions and just wants to take the attention away from himself.

Post 81

Because I felt that it was just a misinterpretation, it really didn't require questioning. But whatever you say.

I've read his reasoning as to why he misinterpreted but I don't trust his reply. Overall his defense/misinterpretation early on makes me suspicous. Now that he's posting sarcastic comments and his posts seem like he's irritated so soon make me even more suspicous.

Unvote

Vote: Lastsurviver

[Magic Trainer]

[quote=Lastsurviver]What's wrong with my reasoning?

I'm not angry at all, just sort of annoyed. I gave the same answer each time I was asked. It's not that incriminating.

As for the first part of your post, it was just a misinterpretation. I thought he was being serious in saying something that he didn't, so I responded seriously.[/quote]

There's nothing wrong with your reasoning, it's just that I don't trust it.

Isn't it a little early to be annoyed? Everyone who asked asked a simple question and you responded with sarcastic comments (and an answer of course) I think you were just under some pressure so you were in a hurry to take the attention away from yourself.

Yes I realize it was a misinterpretaion, I'm pretty sure I said it was too but I'm more concerned about the real reason behind it.

How come my quote tags in the last post aren't working?

[Magic Trainer]

Yes I would be annoyed but If I'm remembering correctly you've only been asked twice? (If I'm wrong please correct me, but I don't you've been asked as many times as you say)

I'm just saying that it's odd you would have gotten annoyed so fast, perhaps you were just annoyed that people already found a hint that would lead them to you being scum and you were annoyed or worried that you'd have a hard time covering it up?

You're right, you haven't been sarcastic every time (Post 75 just stood out to me) but you already know what I think of your reaction.

[Magic Trainer]

I skimmed the thread again, I only saw Walrus asking you. Please point out the posts were everyone seems to be asking you over and over.

I voted for you because I had a real suspicion and you seemed liked the logical choice for the person to lynche. It's better than my random vote and since you haven't lowered my suspicions I'm keeping my vote.

[Magic Trainer]

So you feel that a random vote based on the fact that it was the person posting above you is better than voting someone because they were, as you believe, "lurking". Assume for this situation that the lurking is a viable reason. In a situation where someone is truly lurking, they are harming the town by not posting, searching for information and scumtells, or trying to hide from suspicion. So do you believe that is not a good enough reason to turn away from a random vote for something with a logical reason behind it?

If you've read my post I said I

felt

like he was lurking not that I was 100% sure. The game itself started only a few hours (I might have this wrong) before but everyone other than Walrus had posted which leads me to believe that there is a possibility of him lurking. I have also said I wanted to hear Walrus's defense before I changed my vote which was why I chose not to change my vote right away. Now that I he posted I know that he wasn't lurking, I prefer to be sure about this things and find more about the current situation instead of changing my mind every few posts. The answer to your question would be a "Yes" However my thougts about Walrus lurking were incorrect and as I just said I wanted to be sure before I changed my vote.

Clarification please!

The question was:

So do you believe that is not a good enough reason to turn away from a random vote for something with a logical reason behind it?

Your answer was:

The answer to your question would be a "Yes"

Is "Yes" your answer to the specified question?

Secondly, I spy contradiction in your Post 81.

First off in reply to me you state:

If you've read my post I said I felt like he was lurking not that I was 100% sure

So if not being 100% sure and feeling something isn't qualified enough for a change from a random vote, then why is your Lastsurvivor vote good enough?

The beginning of your statement on Lastsurvivor goes as:

Reading over this thread again I believe Lastsurviver is our best bet as to who the scum are.

Are you 100% sure? Basically your reasoning against Lastsurvivor is he seems annoyed and irritated and is posting sarcastically (although I agree with the sarcasm not being good.) This once again boils down to just feelings.

I was curious at to if you were scum there could have been a possibility that you were the scum and you just wanted to take your accusation then slap on my vote to make me look guilty. Then you might have thought as you said my defense was good and others would not agree with you so you decided to change your vote and try to lynche someone else.[.quote]

This is just WIFOM (I think I used it in the right context). Kyiv mentioned something about this earlier in regards to Medix, but I think it applies here as well:

Another baseless accusation. This is not something you can either prove or disprove, it's just WIFOM, which is something dangerous especially in Day 1.

Right now I believe Random has a chance to be good, the scum however I don't a clue on hower I do suspect Walrus has a chance of being scum. I want to wait and see his defense before/if I change my vote.

Why do you believe Random has a chance to be good?

Honestly my feelings about Magic Trainer right now sum up as:

Unvote, Vote: Magic Trainer

That's just the way I play, if I think someone is the mafia I vote for them, as I've seen

everyone

else do

every

game I played. This is a newbie game and you can't expect everyon to play exactly like you.

My vote for Lastsuriver ws because I think he's scum, no, I am not 100% sure and I'm certain I never will be howvere I am sure enough to vote. It seems to me like you think my opinions and thoughts abotu this game are set in stone, when they're not.

As for thinking Random is good is because my reasoning as to him being the mafia I posted, I believe that's false. If he's not mafia then he would be... town? I also didn't think a scum would make an accusation like that because in the end my experience has shown me that the one who accuses and was wrong happens to die. and a mafia wouldn't want to attract so much attention to themselves and end up dead.

[Magic Trainer]

Oh... what's wrong with my post? I thought everyone would be in the quote, what I wrote is from "That's just the way I play,"

[Magic Trainer]

My vote for Lastsurvivor was because I think he's scum, no, I am not 100% sure and I'm certain I never will be however I am sure enough to vote. It seems to me like you think my opinions and thoughts about this game are set in stone, when they're not.

I'm not saying your opinions/thoughts need to be set in stone. Actually that would not be beneficial to the town. What I am pointing out is how your arguments are inconsistent. You started your post saying you didn't want to change a random vote to a vote on walrus because you only

felt

he was lurking, but then you continue the post with a vote on Lastsurvivor based off the

feeling

that he is being irritated? How is that in any way consistent?

That's just the way I play, if I think someone is the mafia I vote for them, as I've seen everyone else do every game I played. This is a newbie game and you can't expect everyone to play exactly like you.

Can you explain this, I'm not understanding this. Why would I expect anyone to play like me?

And you still didn't clarify your answer to the question I posed earlier.

This is your question correct?

So do you believe that is not a good enough reason to turn away from a random vote for something with a logical reason behind it?

I already answered this, not being sure about a reason behind someone being scum and someone being scum are two different things. You realize this correct?

I was not sure if Walrus was lurking so I did not vote him right away,

I even said I wanted to hear his defense first, did you miss this because this explains why I did not vote him right away. Also, did you miss this on purpose?

As for Lastsurviver I know what my reasons are, him being scum though is not what I'm completly sure about I'm confident enough to vote for him for the time being, besides If I feel like he isn't scum all I need to do is unvote. Doing this will not only allow me to actualy play but it will allow the town to learrn from my accusation and his, which of course will help the town.

You do know that I never said I had to be 100% sure to vote someone right? Pointing out me not voting Walrus and ten voting LS with this as your accusation makes me feel like you're putting words in my mouth.

As for the first thing you said in your post, "I will vote for whoever I think scum is" I don't think there's an easier way to explain that. Remember this is a newbie game, howvere you constantly asking why I voted (Insert name here) makes me feel like you disagree with my vote which is perfectly fine, but it also makes me feel like you expect me play just like you. If that's not your intention then I'm sorry for the misunderstanding.

I think I explained everything, but if you'd still like me to answer questions please do so.

[Magic Trainer]

[quote="Lastsurviver]Irritation can make you "sure enough" to vote? That could get you a FoS maybe, not too sure about a vote though. I'm not quite sure I see the reason that gets you from the FoS zone to the vote zone [/quote]

I'm not so used to these fancy wiki terms yet, so to me right now there's really no difference as to where one zone is and where one zone isn't. you'll have to explain, but at the time I had nothing else.

It wasn't just you being irritated, it was because I think you got irritated too soon. Also you didn't point out where everyone seems to be always asking you the same question over and over like I kindly asked you too.

[Magic Trainer]

Ah alright, thank you. So three people asked, (I pointed out it, I did not ask) still makes me feel it was a little early.

As of now, I'm still gona keep my vote

but

I'm going to take a look at the wiki to see if there's anything about scum getting irritated fast. If I see something I'll most likely keep my vote because that'll match up with your behavior (right?) but if I don't I'll just unvote and continue what I've been doing.

Just curious, what do you think of Medix and Kyiv at the moment? I have to go right about now so I can't explain all my thoughts but I'll post them when I come back.

[Magic Trainer]

Mkay.

Such as Walrus right now, I feel like he's just lurking so I would prefer to change my vote to him but I believe my vote for the time being is good enough

Note - MT's "vote for the time being" was on Kyiv, "because she's the person posting above me".

the scum however I don't a clue on hower I do suspect Walrus has a chance of being scum

... eh?

if I think someone is the mafia I vote for them

How does this scan with the Walrus debacle?

I said I felt like he was lurking not that I was 100% sure.
[...]
I prefer to be sure about this things and find more about the current situation instead of changing my mind every few posts.
[...]
as I just said I wanted to be sure before I changed my vote.

My vote for Lastsuriver ws because I think he's scum, no, I am not 100% sure and I'm certain I never will be howvere I am sure enough to vote. It seems to me like you think my opinions and thoughts abotu this game are set in stone, when they're not.

So... you want to be 100% sure someone is lurking before you vote for them. But you vote for whoever you think is scum. But you don't need to be 100% sure someone is scum to vote for them, and you never will be 100% sure. But you thought Walrus had a good chance of being scum. But you didn't vote for him.

Vote: Magic Trainer

Also guys,

please

use the preview button to check your post before you submit it. If your quote tags are broken, it will be very obvious and you can fix it before posting.

Thinking of a reason why someone is scum and thinking scum are two different things. I find it odd that you are treating them exactly the same. I find it stranger that you're still ignoring that I said I wanted to hear Walrus's defense when I said that only a few pages up. I know you just joined but I'm sure you would have read my reasoning a few posts up when you were so fast to vote me.

How does this scan with the Walrus debacle?

I've got no idea what debacle means so I'll look it up.

Main Entry: de·ba·cle
Pronunciation: \dē-ˈbä-kəl, di-, -ˈba-; ÷ˈde-bə-kəl\
Variant(s): also dé·bâ·cle \also dā-ˈbäk(lə)\
Function: noun
Etymology: French débâcle, from débâcler to clear, from Middle French desbacler, from des- de- + bacler to block, perhaps from Vulgar Latin *bacculare, from Latin baculum staff
Date: 1802
1 : a tumultuous breakup of ice in a river
2 : a violent disruption (as of an army) : rout
3 a : a great disaster b : a complete failure : fiasco

I have no idea how ice and rivers relate to this so I believe we're looking at the disaster defination? How is my suspecting Walrus (Who you are now taking a place of) a disaster? A simple suspicion that ended up confirming he wasn't lurking helped town. Also why would you expect me to vote for someone if I don't know if the reason itself it true?

I believe I just have one more thing to answer in your post,

So... you want to be 100% sure someone is lurking before you vote for them. But you vote for whoever you think is scum. But you don't need to be 100% sure someone is scum to vote for them, and you never will be 100% sure. But you thought Walrus had a good chance of being scum.

But you didn't vote for him.

Because I didn't know if he was lurking. If I would have voted for him I would have been voting him for a false reason. Which is why I felt it was better to wait and see if that reason turned out to be true. I voted for LS because I thought he was scum, in this scenario I actualy know my reasons as to why he's scum. In the Walrus scenario I do not know if my reason is true or false. Really all of this makes sense too me, I'm not sure why it doesn't to you and it seems you're twisting the facts around and ommiting some facts just to make me look scummy. But I'm fine with that, continue to question me as you wish.

I'd just like to point out now that if I only vote if I'm 100% which is seems like I have to do in your reasoning otherwise I'm scum would only hurt town. It's very difficult to be sure unless you happen to be the cop, and if I had to be 100% sure to vote then I wouldn't change my vote or allow the town to learn new facts which would hurt town.

Also LS like I said I'd tell you what I thought of those two. Medix is definatly suspicous no doubt, howvere a part of me is wondering whether he's just new so I'm currently undecided. I do find it worrying that he didn't answer my question a page or so back. As for Kyiv I have similar thoughts, she appears to be contributing to the discussion and that's good. However I'm still keeping my eye out for her in case she might slip up so we could find a scum tell (As I am with everyone of course) in case for the chance she might be scum.

[Magic Trainer]

[quote="Medix"4. I have no idea. I should wait to day 2 and keep more focus in the arguments. [/quote]

This is odd, Sounds to me like you're simply saying that as a way to avoid telling us your thoughts. Also why round two, how do you even know you'll survive in the night? I think this can be a scum tell, almost refusing to give information and automaticaly assuming he'll live in the night sounds suspicous to me.

[Magic Trainer]

I forgot to preview to see if the quotes were working, btw for those who are wondering that quote is from post 147

[Magic Trainer]

Ah Sorry, I've been getting a little busier and since not too much is happening other than questioning Medix I did not feel the need to post.

I don't think I need to explain Medix's reasoning, Michel already covered that.

Second I'm wondering if you've read the whole entired thread Medix. There is about 7 pages and what you posted you could have just thrown that together by reading this page.

I did a little bit of reading and I don't see anything about irritation being a mafia behavior so

Unvote

And Medix's posting has not been contributing to our case as much but I think he can come up with something better if he focus's more on this.

FoS: Medix

I think we should wait a while before we lynche anyone in case a scum slips up or if Medix really is a scum his partner might slip up.

[Magic Trainer]

I'm still somewhat unsure about whether to vote Medix. You're right, we can't just wait and hope some other people will find evidence as the scum might just lurk. Which is why I think it'd be a good idea as to get the statistics of each players posting. For those we see who don't post much we can question them about their activity leval and pressure them for information. Just how do I search the thread though?

If Medix does turn up to be scum I think it's a slight possibility his partner gave up on him and could be voting him out to clear his innocence. Is this something that has happened in other games that could be a scum tell?

[Magic Trainer]

Mod: Please replace me out, I'm getting too busy to give as much attention to this game as I'd like to

Flareonage replaces Magic Trainer