Mafia 107 - Christmas Time Mafia (Game over)

[DizzyIzzyB13]

Woo, first!

vote: CSL

, since he's got the shortest name of those who have yet to pick up their role PMs and are thus obv. scum.

[DizzyIzzyB13]

Hmm, lots of content.

I guess I'll just sum up my points as I'm exhausted today.

First:

I don't think TheLonging has really garnered the votes he's gotten. Sure, he contradicts himself, but I think he gets nervous when called out. I don't think he should become any more suspicious than someone who isn't post. He's kind of backed himself into a corner, but people like dana, mal, and Dizzy has all avoided suspicion just by not playing. Albeit, I do find him suspicious and I don't like the claim. Vanilla Townie is easy to claim. That claim doesn't raise or lower my suspicions of him one bit.

Second:

I'll list anyone who has garnered suspicion in my eyes, no matter how slight.

CSL - obvious lurker is obvious
curiouskarmadog - Posts only to call out inactive users, or vote. I don't like that style of play. I'm going to go find some other games he's been in to get his meta.
DizzyIzzyB13 - Inactivity
danakillsu - Inactivity
malpascp - Inactivity
RichardGHP - Everything Richard posts gives me scum tell. I think it's just how he plays, but I can't shake it. His posts are always really overly defensive and his defenses are never solid. He throws suspicion around too much and overreacts when anything falls onto him.

As for official FoSes I'll think I'll

FoS: TheLonging, and RichardGHP

Now it's off to bed...

I think anyone who is raising "inactivity" as a reason for suspicion when the game has currently only been running for roughly 43 hours (less than two days, and over a holiday period) is trying far too hard to appear to be more useful and productive than they really are, is guilty of prioritising quantity of analysis with quality of analysis and is generally guilty of creating noise rather than content.

[DizzyIzzyB13]

We obviously can't go a lot of places now since it's only the first day. Then again, RVS voting can only get us so far. We can't grab a lot of info based on these 4 pages. If anything,

I find a random lynch one of the best options we have

unless someone basically acts very scummy. Then again, I don't even know who we could lynch.

3. My only idea(es) right now is to either:

A) Random lynch (very bad)
B) Argue for a while with each other until we find someone we're pretty sure is scummy and vote for them.

Yeah I don't think random lynching will do us good at all.

I don't really find anything scummy about the CSL bandwagon at all.

lol.

2. I didn't notice the bandwagon on CSL at all until I read it over a few times, but I thought nothing of it tbh because of RVS.

Yeah I noticed that it was a wagon, but I thought nothing of it because it was during the time when we voted randomly really.

Also lol.

/facepalm

I concur.

I'm not a fan of TheLonging's wagon, though. it's far too quick and far too large for something based on nothing more than stupid play that is neither indicative of stupid town or stupid scum.

[DizzyIzzyB13]

EBWOP: In fact, I err towards him being town because I don't think his play so far has demonstrated the kind of mental acuity that would be required for scum to go as far as copying the specific formatting of the sample vanilla role PM in his role claim, as opposed to just Copying and pasting it from his own role PM.

[DizzyIzzyB13]

@ Dizzy - You're really implying that inactivity isn't scummy at a point in this game where someone is at L-1 and there have been at least 3 people who have garnered no attention simply from not posting? I find that to be an (extremely easy to use) scum tactic to make it farther into the game. Not only that, but you actually posted when called on inactivity.

No. I'm saying that not posting within a very short period of time such as two days does not qualify as inactivity, particularly over a period of time when most people's lives are distrupted, such as the holiday period.

I would add to that that someone reaching L-1 in a game this size in this short a time is worrisome at best and alarming at worst. Given the speed with which is has developed, I'd say there's a good chance that maybe as much as half that wagon is scum m- especially if TheLonging turns out to be scum.

[DizzyIzzyB13]

I do not accept the newbie card in large games. No one else should either. If you have put yourself in a position to play a large game like this one, it should be because you feel confident enough in your abilities to play this game without committing a scum tell in almost every post you have (unless your role wants you to be committing them, i.e. jester) and the way people are jumping on the "I MADE A MISTAKE!" thing and saying, oh well thats okay then really bothers me.

Then you're naïve to the point of ridiculousness if you think that most people have realistic ideas of their own ability.

[DizzyIzzyB13]

@ Dizzy - You're really implying that inactivity isn't scummy at a point in this game where someone is at L-1 and there have been at least 3 people who have garnered no attention simply from not posting? I find that to be an (extremely easy to use) scum tactic to make it farther into the game. Not only that, but you actually posted when called on inactivity.

No. I'm saying that not posting within a very short period of time such as two days does not qualify as inactivity, particularly over a period of time when most people's lives are distrupted, such as the holiday period.

I would add to that that someone reaching L-1 in a game this size in this short a time is worrisome at best and alarming at worst. Given the speed with which is has developed, I'd say there's a good chance that maybe as much as half that wagon is scum m- especially if TheLonging turns out to be scum.

EBWOP: Oh, and I didn't post because I was accused of inactivity, I posted because I turned up to read the thread.

And, btw, lurking is a null tell anyway.

[DizzyIzzyB13]

EBWOP: Oh, and I didn't post because I was accused of inactivity, I posted because I turned up to read the thread.

And, btw, lurking is a null tell anyway.

Trust based arguments don't really work. That argument is just based on the fact that I assume you're telling the truth, which is never what one should assume in a defense. As far as the evidence suggests, you were called on lurking and posted shortly after.

On the contrary, I was accused of lurking when I wasn't lurking and then posted in the natural order of playing the game. Two days does not constitute lurking, especially during a busy festive season. Your attempts to spin a short period between posts into lurking is highly suspicious.

I wouldn't say lurking is a null tell either, but I've already explained my stance on lurking, so we'll just disagree on that point.

Dizzy, Day 1 lurking in a large is a complicated tell. Newb's should lurk a little, experienced players shouldn't. Bad time of year for lurkers though.

Lurking is not a practice exclusively or even predominantly practiced by scum, so how is it anything other than a null tell?

Dizzy #177. Granted, but this is not the newbie games. This is a large. If you sign up you should know what to expect.

And yet according to his own stats, TheLonging has yet to complete a game on MS. Richard has all of 34 game posts on MS. There are inexperienced (MSwise, at any rate) people involved in the game. There's a vast chasm between what people should do and what they do, and to judge people by standards they have clearly not adhered to is unproductive and hamrful to the town objective - catching scum, not newbies or lurkers.

Dizzy. Are you voting me or what?

You replaced CSL, so yes, my random vote is still resting on you. I have no need to move it, yet.

I'm going to go ahead and

Vote: No Lynch

. All of this blind speculation is just causing paranoia and I think it would be better to not have a lynch unless I see something particularly scummy.

Town gains no information from a no lynch. Town gains information from a lynch, even if we lynch town. Outside of a very limited set of situations in which no lynching increases the town's odds of winning, there's no benefit to no lynching.

Also, diddin and sorasgoof, suggesting no lynch, and stateing the intent to not vote, respectively, is -heavily- anti-town. Might be coming from the idea to not be held culpable for any mislynch.

I concur entirely.

unvote

, thanks for letting me know. I'm still semi-new to the mafiascum rules. I want to be sure I'm voting for a scum, or as sure as I can, so I'm holding back my vote.

Something about this post really doesn't sit well with me.

I'll be adding a post later on tonight, just wanted to say that I'm still alive and reading the thread, etc.

Noted, awaiting promised content.

*insert long Richard case here*

I like this post and it has solid reasoning. Certain assauges my unease over your alleged lurking problems a little. There's a much stronger case to be made against Richard than anyone else to this point, although I'm waiting for a response before I consider voting for him.

I predict that Richard's defense will be subpar.

Well you're not wrong there. IIRC, that's three votes? Four? Someone let me know.

In cricket, it's much easier to get a batsman out lbw if he fails to offer a shot. See how that worked out for South Africa in the second innings against England recently. This is not a good sign, evenj if it's not necessarily a scum tell.

Five, I think. Not sure.

Mod: Vote Totals ("Votals") as soon as possible, please? Thank you.

Also, you're not even trying anymore, are you? At this point, if you're truly town, you should defend yourself and prove to us that you're town. Not say "yup, you're right", ignore Fugi's entire post and make an offhand votals remark. That hurts your case even more now.

Sorry.

I'm trying, but you guys aren't exactly making it easy. I predict that this will run similar to my last game - no matter what I say or do, people will find flaws that suggest I am scum, regardless my true alignment. People will lynch me if they convince themselves that I am scum.

In any case, it's just gone 12am on 1 January 2010 and I'm in no state to make a decent defense now. Tomorrow morning might be a better estimate.

11 are needed for lynch, correct?

Cop out and avoiding any attempt to defend yourself, even when challenged? That's more scummy than the initial dismissiveness. Interesting.

[DizzyIzzyB13]

@Dizzy: What were you saying with your "half that wagon is scum m-"? What word did you cut off there?

I didn't cut anything off. The m is not suppopsed to be there. I also said "probably half", for the record, and that was an inexact guesstimate.

[DizzyIzzyB13]

EBWOP: I caught that part of the post and wanted to reply quickly, but then I read that post properly and noticed this stuff IS hould probably respond to, especially since it has the quote I was replaying to in it (which I managed to misquote, yay).

I would add to that that someone reaching L-1 in a game this size in this short a time is worrisome at best and alarming at worst.

Given the speed with which is has developed, I'd say there's a good chance that maybe as much as half that wagon is scum m- especially if TheLonging turns out to be scum.

WARNING: The below point is ONLY valid if TL flips scum.

I've seen scum do this in another game, where they imply that the wagon on their scumbuddy is full of bussing scum, so that if their buddy is lynched they can go happily down the row lynching the lynchers for "bussing." As I said, this only applies if TL flips scum, but it's something we need to watch out for. And, if TL indeed flips scum, my FoS will be falling upon you Dizzy.

Setting up conditional future lynches on such flimsy cases is far more suspicious than pointing out the conventional logic that a fast wagon with a poor case is likely to be scum driven.

[DizzyIzzyB13]

It's not fair to automatically assume that I should know the various acronyms and such

Yes it is. when you are playing a non-newbie game on this site, it is assumed that you at least know the basics of how to play/theory/etc. This is why your noobclaiming is exhausting everyone so much.

Claiming ignorance and naivety isn't any better.

[DizzyIzzyB13]

also: DizzyIzzy, any particular reason you are voting for Annachie? That vote is still in place from when you voted for CSL in the first post of the RVS

Because I haven't changed my vote. It's not doing any harm where it is.

Whilst there were good reasons for the Richard wagon, in light of his claim, I don't see any pro-town reason for us to lynch him today. Since he has claimed a one-shot investigative role, it is in the town's interests to allow Richard tonight to use his investigation, since at worst he'll be a distraction to the mafia and at best we'll get a useful result out of him. Tomorrow, we should decide on Richard's fate.

[DizzyIzzyB13]

Hey Richard….you understand that if you are not the lynch today…you are going to have to use your investigation ability tonight…I don’t want any bullshit, like I forgot..or didn’t see your post..or any of that. Do you have a problem with that? IF so why?

Hey ckd... you understand that I can't give you anything if I get roleblocked tonight, don't you?

No, I don't have a problem with using it tonight. But you have to understand, I may not be able to come up anything due to a roleblock. Please understand that.

what is with all the coversation about a RB? I realize that you might be blocked, but I dont want that excuse tomorrow by saying "well I did this because I thought I was going to be RBed"....that is what I will call bullshit....now if you are RBed, we will have that conversation tomorrow, but right now, you are close to being lynched. IF you really have an investigative ability….then you should use it. The above post feels like you are laying ground work for excuses tomorrow. But to assume that a.) mafia has a RB and b.) that they will use it on you is a stretch.

I higly doubt that the mafia doesn't have a RB. Even then, there is still most likely a town RB that could end up RBing me. I think it's pretty safe to say there is at least one RB in this game.

Regardless, I was just making sure you were aware of the possibility.

Don't be stupid. There is absolutely no possible reason for a pro-town roleblocker (or any of the other roles that would cancel out your action) to target you.

[DizzyIzzyB13]

I would add to that that someone reaching L-1 in a game this size in this short a time is worrisome at best and alarming at worst.

Given the speed with which is has developed, I'd say there's a good chance that maybe as much as half that wagon is scum m- especially if TheLonging turns out to be scum.

WARNING: The below point is ONLY valid if TL flips scum.

I've seen scum do this in another game, where they imply that the wagon on their scumbuddy is full of bussing scum, so that if their buddy is lynched they can go happily down the row lynching the lynchers for "bussing." As I said, this only applies if TL flips scum, but it's something we need to watch out for. And, if TL indeed flips scum, my FoS will be falling upon you Dizzy.

Setting up conditional future lynches on such flimsy cases is far more suspicious than pointing out the conventional logic that a fast wagon with a poor case is likely to be scum driven.

I agree. however, in the game that I'm referring to (I can link it if you want), the exact same situation occured. A mafia member went to L-1 in less than a page, and one of his scumbuddies made a post very similar to yours, saying that scum would be on that wagon

regardless of their alignment

(funnily enough, the wagon went to L-1 without a single member of the scum team being a part of it). There is no reason to say something like this if you are town, since it's very obvious that scum would be on the quickly growing wagon of a townie. Only scum would say this, as it gives them the perfect excuse to lynch the players on the wagon.

As I said though, this case is only valid if TL flips scum, which personally I don't believe he will. I actually was going to hold this and post it later only if necessary, but then I thought about it and realized that it does the town no good if I die with helpful information in my head but out of the thread. That's why I made a note of it, and nothing more.

The fact that you can cite a single instance of that happening, versus the many, many declarations that there is scum on a particular wagon, (since it happens at least once in every game) would suggest that this is not a uniquely scum thing to do and your reaction is curious, even if this is academic since I doubt TheLonging is scum anyway.

[DizzyIzzyB13]

Question: diddin, DragonsofSummer, InflatablePie, NavyCherub - why so bandwagonwhorish?

[DizzyIzzyB13]

Question: diddin, DragonsofSummer, InflatablePie, NavyCherub - why so bandwagonwhorish?

...

@DizzyIzzy: I was on a rvs wagon, 2 wagons I agreed with (one of which I still would have no problem lynching, Richard), and I started the Sora wagon.

Question: diddin, DragonsofSummer, InflatablePie, NavyCherub - why so bandwagonwhorish?

I believe I've already said why I voted and unvoted TL and Richard. As for soras, I believe I mentioned why I found him scummy - NA spec, claiming newbisheness, saying he wasn't gonna vote at all early in Day (and seemingly retracting, saying he meant Real Life day, maybe I read wrong), as well as noting it was partly for pressure in 548. He hasn't responded too well in my eyes.

If you elaborate a bit more I think I can answer your question more clearly, but my response to just this is that I haven't had the opportunity to start a decent wagon myself yet. However, I do feel like I give my opinion where it matters, so my "bandwagoning" is brought with a bit more substance.

diddin needs to answer this.

[DizzyIzzyB13]

EtherealCookie has requested to be replaced.

I know I'm treading in WIFOM territory here, but I'm pretty sure this makes EC town. He expressed his frustration with the amount of newbies several times in this thread, and since he wants to get replaced I'd say that it's a safe bet it's because he's town who can't stand playing with us anymore. If he were mafia, on the other hand, he'd love the confusion and mistakes that are flying left and right, and would have no reason to leave.

EC and EC's replacement (whenever Tarballs finds one) are now likely townie in my eyes.

I find your analysis to be troubling and suspect. You make dangerous and anti-town assumptions based on self-confessed poor, unsustainable reasoning that has no evidence to back it up. The opinions you ascribe to him are not supported by the evidence of his own words, which fail to support a ragequit, and are at best wild, unfounded speculation and at worst an attempt to blatantly mislead the town. I am pretty unimpressed by significant amounts of your analysis so far.

[DizzyIzzyB13]

LOL, really?

he quit because he couldnt keep up.
he quit because he was vanilla townie and bored.
he quit because he was mafia and I asked him to participate and he freaked.
he quit becasue god opened up the heavens and told him he had too.

the result is the same, we get a replacement.

is speculating helping us find scum?

No, it's not. EC waqs only in one game. There is nothing to indicate why he quit. Speculation is unhelpful, since the evidence doesn't exxist to support any particular conclusion and engaging in pointless arguments over irrelevencies is anti-town. Who cares why he left? All that matters is whether he's scum or not?

[DizzyIzzyB13]

Also, the noise generated by the replacement means diddin might miss this.

Question: diddin, DragonsofSummer, InflatablePie, NavyCherub - why so bandwagonwhorish?

...

@DizzyIzzy: I was on a rvs wagon, 2 wagons I agreed with (one of which I still would have no problem lynching, Richard), and I started the Sora wagon.

Question: diddin, DragonsofSummer, InflatablePie, NavyCherub - why so bandwagonwhorish?

I believe I've already said why I voted and unvoted TL and Richard. As for soras, I believe I mentioned why I found him scummy - NA spec, claiming newbisheness, saying he wasn't gonna vote at all early in Day (and seemingly retracting, saying he meant Real Life day, maybe I read wrong), as well as noting it was partly for pressure in 548. He hasn't responded too well in my eyes.

If you elaborate a bit more I think I can answer your question more clearly, but my response to just this is that I haven't had the opportunity to start a decent wagon myself yet. However, I do feel like I give my opinion where it matters, so my "bandwagoning" is brought with a bit more substance.

diddin needs to answer this.

[DizzyIzzyB13]

Question: diddin, DragonsofSummer, InflatablePie, NavyCherub - why so bandwagonwhorish?

@Dizzy: I feel as if I've been able to defend my points better on my recent votes for soras and Richard than my vote for TL. I actually think soras is scum and have defended my reasoning on my vote for him on a few occasions.

@DizzyIzzy: I was on a rvs wagon, 2 wagons I agreed with (one of which I still would have no problem lynching, Richard), and I started the Sora wagon.

Question: diddin, DragonsofSummer, InflatablePie, NavyCherub - why so bandwagonwhorish?

I believe I've already said why I voted and unvoted TL and Richard. As for soras, I believe I mentioned why I found him scummy - NA spec, claiming newbisheness, saying he wasn't gonna vote at all early in Day (and seemingly retracting, saying he meant Real Life day, maybe I read wrong), as well as noting it was partly for pressure in 548. He hasn't responded too well in my eyes.

If you elaborate a bit more I think I can answer your question more clearly, but my response to just this is that I haven't had the opportunity to start a decent wagon myself yet. However, I do feel like I give my opinion where it matters, so my "bandwagoning" is brought with a bit more substance.

'kay. We've had three wagons reach L-2 or L-1 - TheLonging, RichardGHP and sorasgoof. All three wagons have had significant momentum, and all three managed (somehow), to provoke claims. Only Richard claimed a role that would make a town lynch illogical - Vanilla Townie is a claim that's only testable through lynch and represents less of a loss than a power role.

The fact that there was no hammer in any of those cases suggests the possibility that they are all scum, or that a significant proportion of scum has been on those wagons, and hammering would expose too many scum to the scrutiny that would arise from an examination of a townie lynch wagon.

The four people I mentioned were on all three wagons, and thus are the most deserving of suspicion for their flip-flopping. The content of their answers are intresting. diddin and InflatablePie answered the question by referring to prior points made as to why they believe the people they voted for may be scum. These answers, to me, are indicative of a townie mindset - that is, their thought are concerned with finding and lynching scum.

The other two, DragonsofSummer and NavyCherub answered differently. Their answers were concerned solely in terms of being on bandwagons, suggesting a mindset in which the identity of the lynchee is less important that the fact that he or she must be lynched. NavyCherub in particular made a curious comment about not having the opportunity to start a wagon himself, which is puzzlingly irrelevent to the question. Navy's was also the most cautious, phrased in a way designed to give Navy an out were the answer to be "wrong". I'm inclinded to think that both DragonsofSummer and NavyCherub are more likely than not to be scum at this point, based on the thought processes that went into their answers to my question and their voting habits, Navy moreso than DoS.

unvote, vote: NavyCherub

[DizzyIzzyB13]

Also, in general, I'm getting sick of people saying that they have posted the answer to a question already. Either just answer it again or link to where you said it because obviously I either didn't see your answer or didn't think it was good enough.[/rant]

It's not anybody else's responsibility to cover for the fact that you're not reading the game properly, as demonstrated by the "analysis" you posted. If you'd actually read any of my posts, you wouldn'[t have asked an innane quetsion I've alread answeered, quite clearly, several times and you wouldn't have made the wholely unsubstantiated claims that I've a) lurked (I clearly haven't - there's only one date since the game started when I haven't posted, thanks), b) that I've only posted when pressed about it (nobody's done any pressing) or c) not contributed much (I think you'll find plenty of analysis and useful content, thanks. Quality > Quantity).

[DizzyIzzyB13]

MOD:

I'm going have be dealing with personal stuff over the weekend, so I won't be around much. Should be back to normal on Monday.

[DizzyIzzyB13]

Sorry guys, my busy weekend turned into a busy week. Looks like I have a lot of catching up to do.

[DizzyIzzyB13]

NavyCherub: Claim. Now. This is non-negotiable and unavoidable.

[DizzyIzzyB13]

Oh, and everyone else? No lynching Richard until Navy claims.

[DizzyIzzyB13]

Not until Navy claims.

[DizzyIzzyB13]

Dizzy, why do you want me to claim all of a sudden?

On the topic of Richard's investigation, I think that I buy Richard's claim for now. Having two people with commuter abilities is definitely not a reason for it to be false.

The why is unimportant. The fact that you claim is not.

[DizzyIzzyB13]

On the contrary, you're in claim-or-die territory at best, claim-and-die at worst. The fact that you can't take the context of this claim demand and work out that the gig is up is mildly amusing, though.

[DizzyIzzyB13]

None at all, it was pretty much required from the moment I asked Navy to claim.

[DizzyIzzyB13]

On the contrary, you're in claim-or-die territory at best, claim-and-die at worst. The fact that you can't take the context of this claim demand and work out that the gig is up is mildly amusing, though.

Holy...fine. I'm a roleblocker, I used it on Flareonage last night, but that clearly got nowhere.

Thank you. Now we can lynch you.

Claim: Tracker

. NavyCherub targetted RichardGHP last night. Coupled with the roleblocker claim, the false naming of his target and the fact that Richard's claimed one-shot investigation result is consistent with his being roleblocked...

vote: NavyCherub

[DizzyIzzyB13]

I do believe that's a lynch.

[DizzyIzzyB13]

There's a gender icon on a lot of people's profiles. keep an eye out for them.

[DizzyIzzyB13]

'Kay, since there appear to be patterns of kills, it appears we have three factions or people with killing roles to some extent or another.

#1 - The Slicer.

Kill(s):
Flareonage, Mafia Doctor N1
Nicodemus, Bodyguard and neighbour, N2.

#2 - The Shooter

Kill(s):
Fugitive, Even-Night Communter and Neighbour, N1
Parama, Voyeur, N2

#3 - The Popper

Kill(s):
DragonsofSummer, Vanilla Townie, N2

#3 has the most variables. The most likely scenario in my eyes is that s/he is a One Shot Vigilante, but there's nothing to confirm that suspicion either way - it could be the result of a successful Doc protect, for example.

#2 would appear to be the Mafia kills. Conventional wisdom would suggest that shooting kills are Mafia, and they've struck both nights and nit no mafia targets. The kills seem kinda strange, though - what made Parama a more attractive target than either of the two outed power roles who Navy's lynch would appear to pretty much confiurm as town (myself and Richard).

#1... #1 is the most interesting. It'll either be a vigilante or a serial killer and given the third kill and the presence of a Mafia Doc, I'm leaning serial killer. I think this needs to be considered, because at this point, with 2 scum down, it could dreastically affect the manner in which we approach finding the remaining anti-town elements, since we may or may not be looking at people who are able to communicate with each other.

[DizzyIzzyB13]

CKD: I targeted DragonsofSummer, but he didn't do anything on account of being a vanilla townie. He was the #2 suspect I had based on the bandwagon analysis I conducted, and since #1 Navy had turned up scum, I wanted to see if #2 was worth following.

[DizzyIzzyB13]

I also dislike, "Oh yes the three kill types are sooo confusing".

Uh... please point out where anyone expressed this sentiment?

[DizzyIzzyB13]

That's an inadequate response to being L-1.

[DizzyIzzyB13]

Prodding DizzyIzzyB13, CryMeARiver, sorasgoof and DedicatedScribe.

Sorry, I'm kinda sick at the moment, so I'm kinda not all there at the moment. Hopefully, I'll be alright soon, but bear with me if I'm a bit sporadic in posting for a few days.

[DizzyIzzyB13]

Sorasgoof didn't do anything last night.

[DizzyIzzyB13]

dizzy, do you believe Richard's claim? Why did you chose sora?

I'm very sure Richard's claim was accurate. I believed it when he made that claim, was convinced with the NavyCherub incident on night one and I'm still sure now. His play has consistently been of a level that would suggest that he is incapable of the level of sophistication required to make a fake claim of the nature of that nature, and his play is consistent with someone of his ability level playing with that role.

I chose Soras because Soras has spent the game generally acting suspiciously and 'cause I was ill, I wasn't exactly up to speed with the game and thus chose an easy target so I'd at least be able to get potentially useful information.

I think we should be looking at TheLonging's wagon for scum, because I don't exactly understand how his blatant stupid vanilla townie play managed to get him called scum by so many people without the influence of scum on the discussion.

[DizzyIzzyB13]

The same reason why I was alsways convinced TheLonging was a VT - he's an idiot.

[DizzyIzzyB13]

11 - diddin (Fugitive,

curiouskarmadog

, Flareonage, Nicodemus,

RichardGHP

, NavyCherub, TheLonging, pman5595, InflatablePie,

DedicatedScribe

, Parama)

9 - NavyCherub (DizzyIzzyB13,

curiouskarmadog

, Parama, pman5595,

RichardGHP

, sorasgoof,

DedicatedScribe

, InflatablePie, TheLonging)

7 - TheLonging (CryMeARiver,

DedicatedScribe

, ready2rock, sorasgoof, CCARaven4,

curiouskarmadog

,

RichardGHP

)

Three people have been part of all three lynches. Richard, I'm convinced is town for reasons stated elsewhere. Of the other two, ckd has been playing in a town ckdish kinda way.

DedicatedScribe was beyond useless - his only votes were the ones for the eventual lynches, he offered nothing in the way of analysis and maqnaged to create noise without really saying anything. In the CSL incarnation, he replaced out really quickly in response to his RVS wagon for a bizarre reason. In the next incarnation, Annachie, there's excessive worry about a resting vote, too much reliance on policy as a method of scum hunting (particularly lurker lynching) and the puzzling aversion to analysing the claimed and obvious newbies as newbies for no good reason. Hmmm... if Annachie 2.0 wasn't creating a good impression, I'd probably be placing a vote on DocPotter right now. As it is, I'm just keeping a close eye on him.

[DizzyIzzyB13]

Just the way you seemed to place Pie and Cherub in a positive light during day 1. Such as the quote above. Also a little voteing (Though a computer crash lost my coloured votals chart, so I have to rebuild it.)
You're not the only one of course, I had Pie as fairly town for a large part of day 1.

I'll learn more when I start on day 2.

Dizzy, you should look at all the wagons that got to around L-2 or so. Richard, for example, is on four of the five. (Actually six, but I can understand Richard not being on his own wagon)

Richard is irrelevent, since he's town. There's absolutely nothing in his play that contradicts the opinion I've formed of him.

[DizzyIzzyB13]

I'm not voting because I'm not sure who's worth a vote.

I'm unconvinced as to the merits of a Raven lynch - as stupid as some of the things he's said have been, it's also consistent with newbish play, and he's undoubtedly a newb.

[DizzyIzzyB13]

No, but you seem to be forgetting that MAFIA DOES KNOW WHO TOWN IS (in a one-mafia game, which I'm assuming this is at this point).

a) we appear to have a serial killer, so no, they don't.

b) On what are you basing this "One Scum" theory?

[DizzyIzzyB13]

You need to express yourself more clearly, so that people don't think you're assuming that there is only one scum team member left.

[DizzyIzzyB13]

We have 5 days to the deadline. Personally, I have reservations about all the options being presented. I suggest that people who're pretty convinced of their cases should make a post stating their case in order that those of us who're less sure can attempt to find a case that resonates with us.

[DizzyIzzyB13]

I also find he Soras wagon weird. L-1, CKD unvotes. Back to L-1 via Richard, Pie unvotes. For discussion. Only time known scum are off a wagon like that. Makes me think Soras is scum.

Which soras wagon are you talking about?

[DizzyIzzyB13]

I also find he Soras wagon weird. L-1, CKD unvotes. Back to L-1 via Richard, Pie unvotes. For discussion. Only time known scum are off a wagon like that. Makes me think Soras is scum.

Which soras wagon are you talking about?

He's talking about the wagon that existed on me on Day 1. He thinks I'm mafia because Pie chose to unvote me for discussion, and he turned out to be mafia.

I didn't ask you.

[DizzyIzzyB13]

CKD, maybe you should try clearing your Temporary Internet files? The site works fine most of the time for me, you might want to have a look at whether there might be an issue on your end.

[DizzyIzzyB13]

vote: sorasgoof

I'm not really happy about the case against soras, but it's the strongest of those currently being discussed and I believe a no lynch would be really bad for the town.

[DizzyIzzyB13]

Mod: For reference, votals for this page please.

@Dizzy: If you weren't confirmed town I'd probably HoS you for voting the way you just did. You admitted that you weren't happy with the case against him and that you are voting him because it's currently the strongest case being discussed. I don't like that, and this is coming from someone who thinks that wagoning is a nulltell. I would much rather you vote for a weaker case that you feel like pursuing than a strong case you don't agree with.

Uh... I'm not entirely sure how to respond to how profoundly fucking stupid this is. I voted for the strongest case because it is the STRONGEST CASE MADE. That is, the case that has the most logic, the best evidence to support it and is thus the case I MOST AGREE WITH OF THE OPTIONS AVAILABLE. I would not describe it as the strongest case currently being discussed if I did not thing is was the best case with the most reasons to vote for it.

Jesus Fucking Christ. I can't believe the level of stupiud dominating this game.

[DizzyIzzyB13]

Also, since we have a few more days,

unvote

.

[DizzyIzzyB13]

Preview Edit: I think I see what you're trying to get at, after thinking about it. Did you mean to say that you weren't happy with the soras case, but nevertheless it's the strongest out of all our options so far? If so, disregard the above rant.

Still, I find your unvote strange. If you think soras is scum, why did you unvote?

That would be exactly what I said in the first place.

I unvoted because we have more time, and I'd rather find a stronger case to go with than the soras vote which was made with reference to an impending deadline.

[DizzyIzzyB13]

Likewise, scum can bus. If Raven flips scum, it does not make me automatically town, as I hypothetically could have been bussing,

You've been saying things like this for a few days now. Are you trying to tell us that there are two mafia left? Why would you even bring this up? Do YOU think there are two mafia members left?

Why do you think there are NOT multiple mafia members left?

[DizzyIzzyB13]

No, soras. Don't misrepresent pman. He's been bringing up bussing to counter the inane and pointless "if x is scum then y must be town" type discussions that have been going on. I mean, aside from bussing, we've almost certainly got a SK in our midst and thus, scum and SK could be attacking each other without knowing or thinking the other is also anti-town.

[DizzyIzzyB13]

vote: sorasgoof

I'm not really happy about the case against soras, but it's the strongest of those currently being discussed and I believe a no lynch would be really bad for the town.

uuuhhhh, what? same questions I asked Doc…you said he didn’t do anything last night, but he is scum?

This is not jiving with me at all…explain.

@Dizzy: If you weren't confirmed town I'd probably HoS you for voting the way you just did. You admitted that you weren't happy with the case against him and that you are voting him because it's currently the strongest case being discussed. I don't like that, and this is coming from someone who thinks that wagoning is a nulltell. I would much rather you vote for a weaker case that you feel like pursuing than a strong case you don't agree with.

oh fuck this, Richard and I agree on something?

Jesus Fucking Christ. I can't believe the level of stupiud dominating this game.

I actually agree, with some points of his....your vote doesnt make any sense.

The fact that soras did nothing last night is irrelevent. We do not know how many scum there are. It is entirely possible that there are multiple scum and that soras did not submit the kill. It does not disqualify him from being scum.

I don't see what the problem is with that vote. We were on the verge of a deadline no lynch. I thus did my duty as a scum-hunting member of the town and placed my vote upon the person with the compareatively strongest case built against them, regardless of the objective weakness of said case. It's still better than anything anyone else has put forward so far. About the worst thing you can say about it is that the weakness of the cases being made suggests that a lurker who didn't providing enough material for cases to be built against them constitutes scum, and even then, that's next to useless because it doesn't suggest which lurker we shoudl look at.

[DizzyIzzyB13]

Oh good, we have three days to go until we no lynch, which is going to happen unless people move from the wagons they're on. Right now, if I had to rank the wagons, I'd be going MrCrowley, CCARaven4 and pman5595. I'm not really amenable to a pman lynch at all, since he's reading as one of the more pro-town players in the game to me. Hmm.

[DizzyIzzyB13]

This is just stupid

We need a lynch in less than 3 days...lynching me would prove pointless as I claim Vanilla Townie...happy?! Can we please lynch someone that will give us information?

I would support a pman lynch, Raven lynch, maybe a soras lynch, and maybe even a CKD lynch (tunneling throughout the game)...Just tell me where to sign and you can sign me up

This is a terrible post.

vote: MrCrowley