Open 188 - Tweed Mafia - Over!

[farside22]

I need to read on this game but I saw the question from zack I wanted to touch on.

@farside- You asked "what's the best way to get out of RVS?"

I asked this for a good reason. Many people were commenting on Kitty as scum based on her first post. I wanted to see what people thought was a good way to get out of RVS stage to gauge a reaction from people's answers and reference kittymo and her actions. Unfortuantely only 3 people really answered the question which doesn't give enough of an example of difference action players take to attempt to get out of such a thing.
I will get on my read today. I had not realized the deadline was looming so close in this game and I'm arguing like crazy in 2 games so my appologizes for not being here sooner.

[Zachrulez]

Zach, what do you think of XScorp?

He agrees with me about the point of finding Kittymo scummy for asking questions about what people specifically find scummy. (Me in that case.)

The whole town players don't attack him theory is just bad play. I find that to be a general fault in the player though and not an indicator of his alignment. (Also I've kinda been there as my early MS play was very OMGUSy)

I think lynching him over the 2nd point would be a cop out.

I haven't really seen anything else from him that really stands out to me one way or another.

[nhammen]

BTW a Zach Suave pairing looks likely from ISOing Zach. But that could just be buddying.

Buddying from who?

Also if you had done an iso read, you would have found the reasons I am suspicious of Lowell. Did you conveniently ignore this and only look for things that fit your pet theory of a scum pairing? (Which you haven't actually elaborated on.)

Hmmm... OK, it wasn't you. I know I ISOed someone that was buddying to Suave. Well, nuts. Now I have to go back and re-ISO the 3 or 4 players I did...

Now for you and Lowell. You say that you are suspicious of Lowell for stating that meta attacks are scummy, but not attacking Suave, who is relying on meta attacks more than you were. Then, when Lowell attacks Suave, he is scummy for attacking Suave. So what is it?

[nhammen]

BTW, Lowell went up onto my scumlist after ISOing Zach and doing ctrl-f on Lowell. But I'd still like an answer to my question.

[StrangerCoug]

Then what is your explanation for why, unlike others such as Locke, I decided to stop lurking?

I actually didn't notice anybody was lurking. Thanks for reminding me that Locke Lamora exists by mentioning him by name.

[nhammen]

@nhammen: Why do you think XScorpion is scummy? Why do you think MrSuave is scummy? Why do you list XScorp above MrSuave in your 'scummy' list, but only say that you're willing to move to MrSuave at deadline?

I'm suspicious of XScorp, because his arguments look like he is reaching. Trying to find, or create, something incriminating.

I'm willing to go with both, but there is not a wagon on XScorp currently. If one grew, I would be willing.

And I keep second guessing myself. I couldn't remember which players I ISOed, so I ISOed StrangerCoug, and his arguments looked like reaching too.

[nhammen]

I know I ISOed someone that was buddying to Suave. Well, nuts. Now I have to go back and re-ISO the 3 or 4 players I did.

I can't find it. This is what I get for not using any notes. It was only a few hours ago... I should remember.

[farside22]

I'm not really buying XScorpion's explanation for his weak attack on everyone attacking him. I also think he's stretching trying to connect Lowell with KittyMo.

Unvote
Vote: XScorpion

I agree with the stretching but there was on thing that caught my attention.

xscorpion:
I like how Lowell comments on people showing up, when both zach and Suave have been more active than him. Also I don't like bandwagon votes that have basically no logic behind them.

It was really the only valid point he had though. The rest just didn't seem to make any sense.

Deadline's in 3 days guys, we might want to come to a consensus on a lynch here.

Unvote: Vote: Lowell

Also, doesn't suave have more votes? If your real purpose were just to make sure we get a lynch, wouldn't you go for the leader rather than suspiciously picking someone with fewer votes?

QFT

Actually you're vote ties the votes between lowell and mr.suave.

With 12 alive, it takes 7 to lynch.

XScorpion (1) - StrangerCoug
Lowell (2) - Scott Brosius, XScorpion,
StrangerCoug (1) - KittyMo
MrSuave (3) - Nikanor, farside22, Lowell,

The only difference is that I know that zach had his reason's for lowell based on the meta talk abut suave has been doing the exact same thing on Nik so I'm not sure what the difference between the two is on this case.

I still never got an answer from lowell on how post 39 has anything to do with meta.

[Zachrulez]

Deadline's in 3 days guys, we might want to come to a consensus on a lynch here.

Unvote: Vote: Lowell

Also, doesn't suave have more votes? If your real purpose were just to make sure we get a lynch, wouldn't you go for the leader rather than suspiciously picking someone with fewer votes?

QFT

Actually you're vote ties the votes between lowell and mr.suave.

Yeah, I'm well aware of that.

FTR I prefer a Lowell lynch over Suave, but I have no problem switching my vote to Suave in a deadline situation, I'm just more of a fan of pushing a lynch I prefer a little more until it's obvious it's not going to happen. (Hence why I switched from Kittymo, who is still bothering me.)

[Zachrulez]

Now for you and Lowell. You say that you are suspicious of Lowell for stating that meta attacks are scummy, but not attacking Suave, who is relying on meta attacks more than you were. Then, when Lowell attacks Suave, he is scummy for attacking Suave. So what is it?

If that had anything to do with why he voted for Suave he never stated it, he just hopped on the bandwagon.

Do you think his switch from me had more to do with the points I said he was ignoring at the time that you seem to think he apparently noticed but never mentioned in his switch from me to Suave?

Is there no room for the possibility that switch happened because there didn't seem to be any apparent support for a bandwagon on me?

If he wanted a bandwagon or even a lynch on me really badly, you would think he would try harder to make a case on me or give any kind of reasoning for why he finds me suspicious. (Meta with no elaboration is simply not good enough.)

[StrangerCoug]

I'm fine switching back to Suave if need be.

[Nikanor]

I see, THAT question. well in the pokemon game, you did not tunnle on me. BUT, you did group me in with a player to be lynched >_>. and your attitude towards me was very hostile IMO. and then at the end you randomly voted me, screwing us over entierly. so, you may not have been tunnling, but you weren't that friendly either >_>

Now for the next question: do you think your case (and vote) is justified, then?

[Nikanor]

I haven't really seen anything else from him that really stands out to me one way or another.

So neutral, then.

@nhammen: So now that I know why you think XScorp is scummy, what do you think of MrSuave?

[MrSuave]

at the moment, not as sure as I was before. but there is a lot of WIFOM I have to re weed through. this would be less troublesome if I didn't know you >_>

[Locke Lamora]

Sorry, have been ill and I'm still not feeling up to much. In the interests of getting a lynch:

Vote: Lowell

His attitude towards Zach is pretty scummy and I don't like the way he tried to deflect Zach's vote. Will do my best to catch up fully, if not before deadline then definitely during night.

[Lowell]

We can do better than this. Lynch zach or suave and I'll do better tomorrow. I'd prefer zach. His deliberate meta seems more and more off-putting the more pages we get through.

[nhammen]

@nhammen: So now that I know why you think XScorp is scummy, what do you think of MrSuave?

If I'm remembering this correctly, he attacked someone for a meta that was not true. And then when asked about it, he dodged the questions.

Lynch zach or suave and I'll do better tomorrow.

Excuse me! Why not do better now? Maybe I should switch back to you...

[KittyMo]

Here's the bottom half of my scumlist. (I tried to order it as best I could, but I keep wanting to reorder it...meh):

MrSuave
Zachrulez
StrangerCoug
XScorpion
Lowell
SCUM

I've seen MrSuave as a doctor that refused to claim and got lynched Day 1, so I'm not very confident in my ability to read him. The main thing that bothers me about him is that he's done nothing all game except talk to and about Nikanor. I don't think he's really commented on anything else.

Suave - what do you think of people who are not Nikanor? Could you please make a big catch-up post since you've been ignoring most of the thread?

Zachrulez, because I know if he is scum he wants me dead ASAP, and I don't understand his inability to read me well. (Yes, this is pretty much all meta.)

StrangerCoug, just because of gut. I don't really know what it is about him that bugs me, but there's something there.

XScorpion, because he's being a hypocrite:
(And tunneling horribly.)

I operate on the assumption that whoever has the most anti-town behaviour is most likely to be scum.

P.S. Today is the first day I actually read the whole thread.

Does anyone want to explain why my insanely anti-town behaviour hasn't warranted a single vote?

At most I got a few slaps on the wrists from Yabba and Locke, but really...I mean, if I was anyone else in this game, I would probably be voting myself already out of policy (oh wait, I already did. Lol.) Just pointing out that it seems strange for there to be so much discussion about certain players, yet if I was scum (

and wasn't acting like a jackass with my anti-townness

) I would breeze through day 1 almost completely unnoticed.

And Lowell - I've been getting bad vibes from him since his first post, and nothing he's said since has eased that.

Vote: Lowell

. Why don't you start playing better now? Why do we have to wait for you to do that tomorrow?

[Zachrulez]

Here's the bottom half of my scumlist. (I tried to order it as best I could, but I keep wanting to reorder it...meh):

MrSuave
Zachrulez
StrangerCoug
XScorpion
Lowell
SCUM

So those closer to the bottom are people you are more suspicious of?

Zachrulez, because I know if he is scum he wants me dead ASAP, and I don't understand his inability to read me well. (Yes, this is pretty much all meta.)

How does a potential scum motive for me translate to how scummy you find me? That is just strange.

Also, yes, it has historically been true that you have been a lot better at reading me than I have been at reading you, but like the first statement, I don't understand how this statement makes me scummy.

[KittyMo]

Here's the bottom half of my scumlist. (I tried to order it as best I could, but I keep wanting to reorder it...meh):

MrSuave
Zachrulez
StrangerCoug
XScorpion
Lowell
SCUM

So those closer to the bottom are people you are more suspicious of?

Yup. Cut off the top half of the list since it's so close to deadline. I'm not really interested in giving scum a who-to-NK list.

How does a potential scum motive for me translate to how scummy you find me? That is just strange.

Also, yes, it has historically been true that you have been a lot better at reading me than I have been at reading you, but like the first statement, I don't understand how this statement makes me scummy.

I don't think it's damning evidence, but I think it increases your likelihood of being scum. Now that I think about it, you probably should be higher on my list. Uggggggh.

Sorry, having a crappy day. I would probably be taking a nap right now instead of posting if tomorrow wasn't deadline day.

[Zachrulez]

How does a potential scum motive for me translate to how scummy you find me? That is just strange.

Also, yes, it has historically been true that you have been a lot better at reading me than I have been at reading you, but like the first statement, I don't understand how this statement makes me scummy.

I don't think it's damning evidence, but I think it increases your likelihood of being scum. Now that I think about it, you probably should be higher on my list. Uggggggh.

Sorry, having a crappy day. I would probably be taking a nap right now instead of posting if tomorrow wasn't deadline day.

*Obligatory eyebrow* I'd really like to know how you actually do manage to determine my alignment, and why you are more wishy washy on me than you've been in any other game we've ever played in.

When you say higher on the list, you mean closer to scum? (You have your list laid out in a really weird way.)

[yabbaguy]

@farside-225: That just sounds ridiculously too convoluted to be true. Whatever "information" you're planning on getting out of that sounds too deep to possibly be an effective strategy.

@all: I thought my farside vote was going to cause some heart rates to jump. I have caught scum, and I am telling you all, and if you agree with me, you gotta actually lynch her! Not at deadline, we've all blown it now.

But this has to actually happen, or at least be recognized as an attempt to find scum! We have to kill all the scum! Where the hell is everyone's mind at?

---

Zach is the only one I can possibly support a lynch on of all active wagons, he at least has the *possibility* of flipping red. I will not stand for Suave or Lowell being lynched right now, while their play is questionable, they don't ping scummy at all, and with two cops operating (albeit with reliability issues and obstacles), I would not be livid if No Lynch occurs. I think a wagon is a slightly better weapon than cops, ultimately, so let's at least try to give it a go.

Unvote, Vote: Zachrulez

Again though, it should be farside. I *am* ticked that I have to settle for a complacency vote on someone who I'm nowhere near as sure about.

[Zachrulez]

If Suave and Lowell's play is questionable, what does that make my play?

All I can really do is sigh at this point.

[farside22]

@farside-225: That just sounds ridiculously too convoluted to be true. Whatever "information" you're planning on getting out of that sounds too deep to possibly be an effective strategy.

There was about 3 or 4 people questioning kittymo on her opening and her reasoning. I wanted to see how other people would suggest getting out of the RVS if kitty's play was so scummy then for example why did no one target scorpion with is self vote. Basically what I wanted to see is what people do in order to trap scum. I see it more often than not.

[XScorpion]

What time is the deadline at?