Open 189~Trouble@Warren State Mental Hosp (Over)

[Xdaamno]

/checks in

[Xdaamno]

That's unfortunate.

[Xdaamno]

You retroactively ruined the post by making the joke obvious, and me look smug.

[Xdaamno]

Just so we're clear, I hate it when you guys do this but I don't expect it to change.

WII

Fixed?

Vote: Xdaamno

(L-5)
A better-than-random vote.

I was surprised at this. You thought I came off badly in our exchange? I assumed you realised how difficult it is to answer those questions without looking scummy, so I thought the best strategy was to run through several layers of town thought (which would be harder for me to do as scum.)

[Xdaamno]

(Yeah, I realised you were scumhunting. I don't think that's a scum tell, I've played a couple of mafia games before.)

[Xdaamno]

I hate it when you guys do this but I don't expect it to change.

Who is this referring to specifically and what exactly are they doing that you hate?

The quicklynch thing.

[Xdaamno]

I hate it when you guys do this but I don't expect it to change.

Who is this referring to specifically and what exactly are they doing that you hate?

The quicklynch thing.

Do you think people would actually quick lynch you because you're a scumchatter and not the first to confirm?

Probably not, of course. It still stresses me out though.

I assumed you realised how difficult it is to answer those questions without looking scummy, so I thought the best strategy was to run through several layers of town thought (which would be harder for me to do as scum.)

Wait, so it's more difficult for scum to respond to a

generic and mostly reasonless

lynch threat? Never mind that you just said--

What? Are you misunderstanding me on purpose? I thought that was pretty clear. It's harder for scum to think like a town player would than a town player, and noticeably so when they're both thinking things through a few 'layers' of thought.

I've played a couple of mafia games before.

(Yeah, I realised you were scumhunting. I don't think that's a scum tell, I've played a couple of mafia games before.)

*reads between the lines*
So am I more likely Town, or scum?~

tl;dr Yes, my vote is serious.

I don't get this either. If you want to read into that, if anything, I was criticizing your scum hunting, not calling you scum. Yes, of course, I'm scumhunting you too at the same time.

[Xdaamno]

What? Are you misunderstanding me on purpose? I thought that was pretty clear. It's harder for scum to think like a town player would than a town player, and noticeably so when they're both thinking things through a few 'layers' of thought.

You are clear. You said you had to artificially project yourself through several layers of a Town mindset in order to determine a

correct

response.
At this stage in the game, there is effectively nothing stopping you from responding in the same way as Town or scum except sheer psychological pressure, which I would not expect to come into play considering you have "played a few games before".

In plain English, you're making excuses for yourself in attempting to look Town.

I can see how you don't see why it takes a town player to go through those layers of thought - I wouldn't assume that unless I'd actually been through the process myself - but not realising that your last sentence there is ridiculous means I want to stop having this argument.

(addendum: for transparency, it's actually mostly because I'm worried that stupid people might start agreeing with you )

[Xdaamno]

Oh, I didn't realise that was a question. Most likely town. Are you trying to test my ability to take statistics into account? If you didn't realise that's a silly question otherwise, then once again I don't want to argue with you like this. That is, with logic.

[Xdaamno]

Some things I think we should both consider Vi:

- Ending dumb arguments usually helps the town
- Not reminding yourself often that not liking someone else's behaviour when arguing hasn't got anything to do with how scummy they are hurts the town

[Xdaamno]

OK, as you know, I think you're being illogical... just so people know, I didn't have anyone in mind when I said "stupid people".

[Xdaamno]

You know this is my meta JD >: /

[Xdaamno]

Buurgh. I wish I could edit that.

[Xdaamno]

Your question-filled posts, coupled with little follow up to said questions, are scummy. Gives off a strong "trying to look helpful & active" vibe. I also noticed that you didn't give much opinion on the wagon, yet you're asking everyone to comment on it.

Occam's Razor - the simplest explanation is usually the correct one. Try again.

It's also a stretch to say that your behaviour as town happens to be a good strategy for scum.

[Xdaamno]

Vi's pushing it here. It sounds plausable that your mini-fallacies are because you're biased.

Vote: Vi

[Xdaamno]

Obviously, I missed it...

Xdaamno, how would you compare your play here to that of Amnesiac Mafia?

I can't remember much about how I played in that game. I'm probably thinking things through more, but the dominating feeling that stopped me playing mafia - people never being willing, for one reason or another, to accept my logic - is still here.

[Xdaamno]

I will concede that votes in my direction get my attention, and that particular vote combined with the rest of the post seemed too coincidental to pass up mentioning.
However, as I mentioned in the EBWOP, Otto - like you - has gingerly stepped around saying anything at all.

What, about me? That's usually because I'm much more careful about saying anything wrong and more willing to put myself in other people's shoes. Less posts end up passing the litmus test.

[Xdaamno]

I will concede that votes in my direction get my attention, and that particular vote combined with the rest of the post seemed too coincidental to pass up mentioning.
However, as I mentioned in the EBWOP, Otto - like you - has gingerly stepped around saying anything at all.

What, about me? That's usually because I'm much more careful about saying anything wrong and more willing to put myself in other people's shoes. Less posts end up passing the litmus test.

I used to play like that. It's great for surviving, but beyond terrible for finding scum. (So it worked to great effect when I was scum in Tofu Mafia.)

You mean to tell me there's nothing you have to say about anyone except me, and that in my response to Otto I went from "as likely as anyone to be Town" to "most likely to be scum"?

That's why I don't use it for finding scum. Durrrrr.

I'm not going to manufacture comments for your benefit, because it's not nessecary at this stage. I'm going to post about what interests me and make a point to go out of my way to sometimes ask probing questions, as I have been doing. This isn't optimal play - I'm just being transparent.

[Xdaamno]

Or should I say FOR THE TOWN'S BENEFIT HUH

[Xdaamno]

This isn't optimal play - I'm just being transparent.

Promising suboptimal play and lying in the same sentence doesn't become you.

Stop trolling.

[Xdaamno]

I'm not scummy-acting. Your scumdars are calibrated to a different meta

[Xdaamno]

crywolf: You've been on the Xdaamno wagon even before Vi was, are you sure of your vote with the new findings?

Yeah i am pretty happy with my vote on Daamno. through what i know of him in scumchat games, he doesn't play so scattered brained and scummy ever. And IMO, and i am pretty sure in others too, he IS playing very scattered brained.

Definitely happy with my vote.

I want to talk about this. I agree that I play

better

on scumchat, but... this is just how I am here. Certainly moreso as town than as scum, if you read any of the games I've played in the last year or so.

[Xdaamno]

Sorry about missing out on the first couple of pages, time to start posting:

vote: vi

Easiest name to type, plus I feel Xdaamno needs some support, not more votes.

I see that the majority of you all seem to know each other quite well. As such i am hoping that you don't all have pre-game prejudiced when playing. Maybe xdaamno is scum looking at his posts where he's afraid to come across as scummy, but town can have that worry too. Could maybe those of you who know him best explain whether or not this is typical behaviour for him? Only when i see more posts or good explanations from other players will i consider changing my vote. Please jdodge, if you will, can you tell me what good we would get out of xdaamno's lynch, as in obvscum lynch, iioa lynch, etc?

VP, what's your opinion on this post? I think it's obvtown.

/pre-emptive preview edit: stop bothering me

[Xdaamno]

Even though I do - though not that strongly - the point of that post was quite obviously to learn more about VP's character, which is unclear to me at this point. Cheers for shitting on that.

[Xdaamno]

Not a great deal of time, so I'll just address mine:

Vi's pushing it here. It sounds plausable that your mini-fallacies are because you're biased.

Why do you think she'd be biased? I don't see anything from her posts that suggest that, so please elaborate on this.

I used bias in the sense that Vi could be looking to attack me as a strategy rather than out of honesty. I didn't find it particularly hard to believe that this wasn't the case, but it was plausable and so worth a vote at this point. I also wanted to see if he would back off when I pushed back.

I can't remember much about how I played in that game. I'm probably thinking things through more, but the dominating feeling that stopped me playing mafia - people never being willing, for one reason or another, to accept my logic - is still here.

Actually, I think I've been giving you the benefit of the doubt a great deal. These kind of pity party posts don't make me want to continue, however.

I think you're looking for a reason behind that post that wasn't there. I was trying to be transparent.

I'm not going to manufacture comments for your benefit, because it's not nessecary at this stage. I'm going to post about what interests me and make a point to go out of my way to sometimes ask probing questions, as I have been doing.

I haven't seen probing questions from you at all, actually. I don't even know who your suspects are really other than a pretty obvious OMGUS on Vi.

Yes, the vote was partly because he was voting me - as I said, I wanted to see if he would abate. But that's certainly nothing to do with the literal definition of OMGUS - do you stand by this?

I want to talk about this. I agree that I play better on scumchat, but... this is just how I am here. Certainly moreso as town than as scum, if you read any of the games I've played in the last year or so.

links please.

Kay, I'll do this later.

[Xdaamno]

I don't know if someone could find my games via the mafiascum logs - I haven't played many lately - the only one in 2008/2009 I could find was this one:

http://mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.ph ... c&&start=0

Where I certainly remember having the same feeling, although I avoided being lynched for quite a while with a gambit.

[Xdaamno]

Depends if I believe your motive. Jury's out at the moment. This might help me decide though: do you think your wagon is scum or town driven? If the former, who do you think is most likely to be scum on it?

This is something I expect to be saying a lot this game, and it's "Read my lips: I don't know". Maybe I could give you a guess if you pushed me, but I don't think it's a good idea with such low certainty.

[Xdaamno]

EBWOP for post 164: meant to say that I found that through google searching

[Xdaamno]

Why are you pushing your meta?
Why are you asking us to go look through past games.
Sorry but I'm one who thinks this game is the one that should matter. not your history

Uhm, you brought it up.

Yeah i am pretty happy with my vote on Daamno. through what i know of him in scumchat games, he doesn't play so scattered brained and scummy ever. And IMO, and i am pretty sure in others too, he IS playing very scattered brained.

Definitely happy with my vote.

[Xdaamno]

Oh, I did.

You know this is my meta JD >: /

That was addressed only to JD, because it was something we once had a talk about in scumchat. I agree that it's not very useful to the rest of you.

[Xdaamno]

This is an example of Xdaamno when crumbling under pressure, which isn't really there.

This exaggerates how I feel about this - my annoyance is nothing more than irrational.

[Xdaamno]

EBWOP: And not really big anyway, I meant to say. I'll try and be a bit more relevant to the game from now on.

[Xdaamno]

Are you always this bad with linguistics Xdaamno? You're tripping up worse than a drunken cripple. It's making me start to wonder about you.

Yeah. I usually don't go back and correct things, lol. What has that got to do with anything?

[Xdaamno]

(yeah, but I want to hear his explanation first)

[Xdaamno]

Those replies went worse and worse. Otto deserves an extra vote.

Vote: Otto

[Xdaamno]

Those replies went worse and worse. Otto deserves an extra vote.

Vote: Otto

Prove it, don't just post and hope people believe you.

What are you gonna do, cheat and find out my role?

[Xdaamno]

Those replies went worse and worse. Otto deserves an extra vote.

Vote: Otto

Prove it, don't just post and hope people believe you.

What are you gonna do, cheat and find out my role?

????

I'm asking you to show HOW they are worse and worse, not just say they are.

I didn't realise your account wasn't in this game. That post was because:

- I heard you were a cheater
- It sounded like you were double accounting here
- Your blatant attempts to make me look scummy for not bothering to give a reason were irritating. I'll explain them if you want, but I thought they were pretty obvious. Before I do, I want to ask: do you agree?

[Xdaamno]

Now that I've internalized that you're the same account, I can't be bothered to explain. It's not like you're going to agree with me anyway, and we both have better things to do.

[Xdaamno]

Uncool, man.

[Xdaamno]

Enjoying JD's posts. I'm a little suspiscious because flooding the town with information is a scum tactic that iirc JD knows about, however. If this is the case some of his posts should probably seem manufactured, but I suppose any slip-ups in such a large amount of analysis might be expected...

Another thought: saberwolf's dumb claim and overreaction to the wagon seem suspisciously like him trying to cause havoc before he is replaced. With the breadcrumb, he could always have claimed later - I don't think he was worried about that going to waste because he said "I was going to claim soon anyway" (which is also scummy now I think about it) and he could have probably told his replacement about it in any case.

And I want to restrain myself, but I just have to respond to this:

I used bias in the sense that

Vi could be looking to attack me as a strategy rather than out of honesty

. I didn't find it particularly hard to believe that this wasn't the case, but it was plausable and so worth a vote at this point. I also wanted to see if he would back off when I pushed back.

The moonmen could be altering his brain waves using their metaphysical machines. Don't forget that!

Actually, performing actions that are plausable scum moves

does

increase the chance of being scum. The fact that that possibility is being extended by a greater-than-you-would-expect amount is incriminating.

[Xdaamno]

Yeah. Why?

[Xdaamno]

I like my vote staying on Poro right now, mostly to remind me to suspect him when he gets back. The Howie wagon looks promising to me, but I don't know that much about him at this moment so I'm gonna wait and watch it for a bit.

[Xdaamno]

I like my vote staying on Poro right now, mostly to remind me to suspect him when he gets back. The Howie wagon looks promising to me, but I don't know that much about him at this moment so I'm gonna wait and watch it for a bit.

you have your vote on a claimed cop d1

with a fairly small chance of a doctor existing to protect said cop

seriously

I forgot about this.

Unvote

, as is customary

[Xdaamno]

Unvote,

as is customary

[to be done for people who claim Cop]

Are you always this obtuse?

Uhh, sorry. I didn't mean to be. I just wanted to make a point that I didn't feel comfortable immediately dropping that topic. Also VP I suppose you are saying that I might be pretending to forget the cop claim as a gambit (unless you think scum is more likely to forget that fact than town,) which is similar to what tajo is talking about, but I do advocate the position that I basically suck at mafia. Two such gambits in a row would be a bit too creative, don't you think?

[Xdaamno]

Also VP I suppose you are saying that I might be pretending to forget the cop claim as a gambit (unless you think scum is more likely to forget that fact than town,) which is similar to what tajo is talking about, but I do advocate the position that I basically suck at mafia. Two such gambits in a row would be a bit too creative, don't you think?

I never called you scum, nor did I say you were pulling a gambit. Now vote Howard.

Out of interest, what was your point with that post then? It otherwise just seems like you're trying to defame me.

(also I'd like to throw in a pre-empt for you saying 'Now vote Howard' at the end of your next post - I'll think about it, but I'm busy now.)

[Xdaamno]

After a few moment's thought, I think I would be happy to lynch HR today.

Unvote, Vote: HowardRoark

Izzy made me realise that the flip will tell us quite a bit about what is going on here, and, yeah, the game is stalling a bit.

[Xdaamno]

Izzy made me realise that the flip will tell us quite a bit about what is going on here

Do tell.

VP looks like he's probably trying to do the best thing for the town here (i.e. lynching a suspiscious player and moving the game along,) but the possibility of him just leading the town is one I want to investigate if Izzy flips town. This wagon developed fairly quickly so I think it'll be easy to analyse tommorow - also, in my mind, at least, up until this point, the opinions of a few central players on this wagon have been recorded. Finally, for the purposes of transparency, the vote was perhaps 20% or so procrastination until tommorow when I think things will be clearer to me.

[Xdaamno]

but the possibility of him just leading the town is one I want to investigate if Izzy flips town.

1) So... what are you doing to

counter

VP Baltar's attempts to lead the Town, or otherwise show that said Town-leading is

not

the best thing a Townie could do right now?
2) When do you expect to see Izzy flip Town?

I said VP was probably helping the town, and therefore probably not leading the town. This is both from my read on VP and my read on HR. The action that I chose to do - support a HR lynch - is not primarily to 'counter' VP, but it happens to lessen the blow if he is scum: not only do I think that HR has a good chance of being scum, but if he isn't then I have somebody else to investigate.

And, thanks for catching that, though I resent the subtle implication of a freudian slip

[Xdaamno]

happens to lessen the blow if he is scum

the antecedant here is VP, just to remove ambiguity

[Xdaamno]

Before I answer, and I hate to be 'obtuse' again, but it feels like I'm mostly just correcting your mistakes about understanding my posts here when I was perfectly clear.

Ignoring this current investigation into VP Baltar's motives, do you think anyone is scum enough to vote them?

I don't know. All - even if there is only 1 - of the trains of thought that I have followed through to the point of deciding whether to lynch, or not lynch someone, have not turned up 'not lynch'. I'm not going to decide here for you now because I'm lazy, and there might some other small effect of the process being less organic that I'm not bothering to think about.

Are you suggesting that VP Baltar is primarily responsible for the HR wagon, even though you just said that he has a good chance of being scum? (

Clearly

if HR flips Town, you shouldn't be held responsible for his lynch in spite of agreeing with VP.~)

to clear up ambiguity again: Vi meant that I said HR was likely to be scum.

Yes, he is pushing this wagon in a way that seems both consistent with scum and town strategy to me. To this extent, HR flipping town isn't any more of a scum tell on VP that it would otherwise be - but, as I said, that would be the point where I would want to start investigating VP further. If you feel that I have acted in a similar fashion to VP on this wagon, then, given that, if I were you, I would also start to investigate me if HR flipped town - but I think I'm following this wagon more than pushing it. Not that you shouldn't draw other conclusions from that different fact, however.

^ apologies for the confusingly structured post

[Xdaamno]

also, I retract that first short paragraph, on account of what I said after it actually being confusing, and that it was obtuse.

[Xdaamno]

I'm having difficulties with MS right now, so I don't know if this post will make it or not.

@Cat: Do you still like your vote for Xdaamno?
Do you think there is anyone else who is scummy in this game?

Yes, I do like my vote on Xdaamno even more now with his cop vote. I mean, with all the saberwolf shenanigans, he would have at least gone through and read that. As for other scummy people, I would say saberwolf/Porochaz if the breadcrumb wasn't so intact, but the only other small qualm I have is Hyl's lurking.

Elephant in the room: What makes a scum player more likely to not read that than a town player?

[Xdaamno]

I'm reserving comment on the JD wagon.

@Xdaamno: Why are you following (not pushing) the wagon on me instead of pushing for my lynch or someone else?

I am pushing. I think outright saying that I support your lynch is pretty clearly pushing. I actually said VP was "pushing in a way that is consistent with town and scum" - if you want to give that a name then it would be imprecise, but I'd go with 'instigating'.

[Xdaamno]

Now that I think it's been made so obvious, VP, I think you'd do better for the possible town players that don't realise and just come out and say you're just pressuring JD. If that's the case, of course.

Xdaamo, Cayke, Cat, Howard.

All better lynches.

If I wasn't me, that'd be my position too.

[Xdaamno]

Yeah, fair enough:

myself - the way I whine on about logical inconsistencies is a plausable scum play
Cay - vibes, general fuelling of fires
Cat - piqued my interest earlier when they voted me illogically, because it felt like they were looking for a reason to vote someone
Howard - as stated

[Xdaamno]

I think I'm following this wagon more than pushing it.

That's why I asked. It looks to me more like hoping onto a popular wagon (that isn't yours).

It's pretty obvious to me that you're being pedantic for the sake of defending yourself

somehow

, or you wouldn't have gone down that completely ridiculous line of thought. "You joined this wagon after other players, so you're scum!/the wagon is invalid!"

[Xdaamno]

HR lynch. I'm pushing this shit. His reaction to the wagon didn't make me feel any better (or worse, if you will.)

[Xdaamno]

@Xdaamno: My argument was not "You joined this wagon after other players, so you're scum!/the wagon is invalid!" My point was that your statements contradicted. Pushing -> Following -> Pushing.

Like I said, that's a pedantic argument - you're just taking the words from my posts in different contexts without appreciating the meaning. I haven't changed what I said I'm doing much, so here, I'll spell it out:

- I'm following the wagon in the sense that I was not the first person to join it, and that it was VP who gave me the idea to be in my current position of pushing it.

- I'm pushing the wagon in the sense that I'm advocating other players should join it - I meant to make this outright when I said "I'm pushing this shit."

[Xdaamno]

Poro, I feel for you man, but that's the first time I've seen the 'mentally unstable' defence used in a game of mafia, lol.

What we really need is for Hyl/Cat/Qooq/Izzy to weigh in here.

Requesting prods for those 4 people

[Xdaamno]

VP, I think you need to find a better way to put this JD case into words, or move on for the time being. People aren't agreeing with you based on what you've said. We could be spending this time on a HR lynch.

Why not assume boredom?

He already tried that excuse in the game that I linked. So did his scumpartner.

lol, is this some sort of subtle attack?

vi, can I get an example of any scummy post? baltar, same question.

If VP Baltar didn't satisfactorily answer your question, I'm not sure how I can.

seriously, i dont feel the jdodge case.

tubby, plz send me a pm when this game has at least more than half players posting in thread. tia.[/quote]

I agree, but I don't think 'not posting' is a good counter-strategy.

(also, I count >=7 active players here, not <7)

[Xdaamno]

ITT: amusing formatting fail pileup

[Xdaamno]

Honestly, that kind of arrogance at this stage in a wagon - no offence intended, HR - instead of desperation/exasperation feels extremely scummy to me. I know I would be more likely to act like that if I was scum than town in this position. Too busy talking to people to rationalize this now, so I'll come back to it. Very happy with this lynch.

[Xdaamno]

I appreciate the work you're doing for this game, VP. You're being a great asset to the town, intentionally or not.

[Xdaamno]

Xdaamno

did seem to be rattled by the early pressure, but I didn't find him scummy from it. it just reminded me a lot of Amnesia mafia and how he seemed to put his foot in his mouth a whole lot and scum just jumped all over it. However a lot of his early play was spent on just defending himself and that doesn't look too good. Is making up for that now. Keeping the vote on the claimed cop gives me pause however. That's enough to push my read of him to more of a neutral feel.

OK, these comments are really starting to confuse me. 'Rattled' is fine, but where do I keep putting my foot in my mouth? I believe it's been pretty clear that I've simply made the choice to be frank and logical about things (occasionally in self-incriminating ways, but that's a problem on your end, not mine.) Throw me a bone and point it out when I slip up, because I really can't tell.

[Xdaamno]

this post by Xdaa is fishy. Who told you he cheats? How would he cheat in this game? Do you share your role openly with your e-friends? If he were double accounting, are you afraid that his main account was...your scum-buddy? How else would he find your role?

It was SensFan, btw. Given SensFan's penchant for cheating himself, he wasn't exactly the most reliable source - still, it was worth a shot. I think I brought up what he said to me in scumchat at one point.

[Xdaamno]

When I say you put your foot in your mouth I mean that you kept trying to explain yourself only having to come back later and reword what you said, or the infamous “wish I could edit that” post. Basically you were posting in such a way that justified people jumping on your wagon because of your tone rather than what you said. At least that was my opinion.

OK, I see. I meant to make the point with that post that while the original post was explaining what I felt accurately, many of my posts were being misunderstood and iirc I should have slightly misrepresented myself because that could have easily happened with that post. Ironically, I made the same mistake in that post, entirely out of my own fault... so I see what you're saying.

[Xdaamno]

I'm not really fond of the Howard wagon at the moment. IIRC Howard was VP's second vote. Since then he voted Otto, and then shortly after he went back to Howard. But what I don't understand is why go back to a wagon alone.

Well, let's see, if he's one of the people I think most likely to be scum then why in the hell wouldn't I put my vote there? You're saying that voting someone should only happen if a wagon is already there for you to jump on?


Furthermore, what exactly bothers you about the howard wagon? How would you judge his play this game pro-town, anti-town, null or scummy?

Yeah, I agree. BC seems to be pushing it there. Awaiting the answers to those questions.

[Xdaamno]

Thank you so much, man! Great posting, and quite easy to read, too. I found myself agreeing with, dare I say it, most of the points that you make there. I think I'll end up reviewing my HR case later today.

[Xdaamno]

That seems like a very town post for Poro to me. I'm not being too careful to say this if he gets NK'd, because his value is diminished by, as he admits, not helping much with the scumhunting.

[Xdaamno]

Not to poison the well but IMO, scum are usually

more

confident. They're informed.

[Xdaamno]

If you mean scum have more to lose by a lynch... that's true, but I don't see how it makes people unconfident. It's not like people are terrified of being lynched - most people just see it as a less-than-optimal outcome.

[Xdaamno]

-i planned to edit some real content in here, but cba. my feelings are that HR's posts feel manufactured lately, so i'm still comfortable with the wagon-

Now, however, the rest of this post is under strict waffle-warning, but it might still be an interesting read:

But, major thing I don't like alarm bells alarm bells. I mention that I like Tajo trying to pick out town, then Poro posts a squiggly block that basicially amounts to 'hey town I don't care about this game' and xd responds with Wow, that seems like a really town post!. wat.

Fair points, but you misunderstood me there. I didn't mean that post helped the town, I meant poro seems almost certainly town to me.

If you think I'm playing like a newbie, then, well, my ego takes a hit. I'm very adverse to long games, and so I don't play as well as scumchat or anything like that, but I consider myself a fair scumhunter. I'm also in the subset of people that will choose playstyles based on whether or not they're entertaining, and interrogations do not appeal to me in the slightest (plus they're almost always ineffective, IMO, since the person

knows they're being interrogated

. This is key.) Clearly I'm helping the town less than you, but making posts like yours would

kill

me. I'm one of those productivist freaks, and mafia is not 'productive' to me, it's only occasionally mildly interesting.

I'll end this by posing some food for thought: are scum more adverse to posting giant texts like these? Incognito mentioned in a recent thread that he finds it harder to post content as scum, which is something I share (ironically,) and I think hito-scum would be afraid of helping the town too strongly.

[Xdaamno]

Thank you so much, man! Great posting, and quite easy to read, too. I found myself agreeing with, dare I say it, most of the points that you make there. I think I'll end up reviewing my HR case later today.

Cop out post.

From what? That wasn't meant as a response to any of his content, even though I did refer to it. I was short on time, so it was that or nothing, and I chose to encourage that kind of pro-town behaviour and perhaps buddy to hito slightly, so he would be less likely to attack me and more inclined to agree with me in future (a disreputeable but perfectly valid town play.)

[Xdaamno]

how much of your desire to lynch howard is you thinking he's scum, and how much is just wanting to lynch an apathetic non-contributor early?

I honestly believe he's scum, but if I ended up being wrong I wouldn't exactly be heartbroken.

I'm willing to come over and support the Cat wagon if we're actually going to lynch (because we've needed to just do it for about 5 pages now), but that's more of a consolation prize to me than anything.

The good news is that hito is at least playing the game and I don't think he should be lynched at this juncture, and that probably helps my decision making a great deal.

I agree with each line of this post, though I don't see why anyone would

suggest

hito should be lynched here. That's cynicism that I don't see much of from you (but was pervasive throughout hit's post, iirc.) Can't we all make an effort to enjoy this game, too, folks?

[Xdaamno]

Thank you so much, man! Great posting, and quite easy to read, too. I found myself agreeing with, dare I say it, most of the points that you make there. I think I'll end up reviewing my HR case later today.

Cop out post.

From what? That wasn't meant as a response to any of his content, even though I did refer to it. I was short on time, so it was that or nothing, and I chose to encourage that kind of pro-town behaviour and perhaps buddy to hito slightly, so he would be less likely to attack me and more inclined to agree with me in future (a disreputeable but perfectly valid town play.)

Vaild eh?

I don't think parroting and just agreeing is a town move.

But that could just be me, right?

You just rephrased what I said in a way to make it sound damaging. What I did is exactly what I said. The way you use this tactic rather than actually addressing

why

it's not a town play is revealing.

[Xdaamno]

Several people have repeated that this day has gone on long enough, so we should lynch Cat. This makes me suspiscious of this wagon... there's probably one or two scum in there. Cat seems like newbie town to me. Not voting Cat today.

[Xdaamno]

EBWOP: Oh, wait, Cat is skitzer's alt, right? Still...

[Xdaamno]

Uhm, I

am

? I'm strongly pro-HR lynch. Personally I feel I shouldn't hammer that in

every post

, because people are more inclined to follow ideas when they believe they have created them in part themselves and I feel that the HR wagon will pick up if the Cat wagon is not viable.

[Xdaamno]

Fair enough, you two've convinced me.

Unvote, Vote: Cat

[Xdaamno]

EBWOP, just noticed:

Of course the probability that you'll manage to convince me to lynch a non-contributor is low (like, .005 catwagons low)

that would be, convince me *not* to lynch a non-contributor.

Do you really stand by that?

Surely a player's chance of being scum should be the more important factor in almost all cases... this kind of exaggeration is not helpful, IMO.

[Xdaamno]

I have nothing to add, except that this is either the most ballsy scum wagon or the most retarded town wagon I've seen in a while.

[Xdaamno]

Vote: Howard

. Yesterday's wagon is almost as viable today, and deserves more votes.

[Xdaamno]

HR's questions are a rather blatant attempt to make himself look town and misdirect the town. What do I think of Sotty7? Answering this question would only start another pointless point of debate that can be latched onto by me, you and sotty7 to no avail. Let's keep the HR wagon momentum, please.

[Xdaamno]

@Xdaamno: Please tell me how my questions are "a rather blatant attempt to . . . {snip} . . . misdirect the town"? (I get the "look town" piece.)

Because they're near-useless, especially compared to what else we could be doing - lynching you. I'm not claiming this is particularly scummy of you, I'm just trying to make it more obvious to everyone else.

[Xdaamno]

This game is just being handed to the scum.

I do

not

like the speed this HR bandwagon is going even though I understand the points on them.

Who are your top scum picks?

^ good questions

[Xdaamno]

*question

[Xdaamno]

Hey, daamno, are Izzy and cayke frequenting scumchat recently? What do you make of them not really posting here?

I haven't been in scumchat for a while, so unfortunately I can't help...

[Xdaamno]

I personally think replacing out is a town tell. HR wagon is still the best one here by far.

[Xdaamno]

It's not a towntell. Scum replace out all the time.

Having thought about this a bit more, I think it's a slight one, but it's certainly there. Scum players are informed and are less likely to get frustrated and bored with the game, I'm pretty sure.

[Xdaamno]

Sorry, was busy. Back now.

Those replies went worse and worse. Otto deserves an extra vote.

Vote: Otto

Prove it, don't just post and hope people believe you.

What are you gonna do, cheat and find out my role?

????

I'm asking you to show HOW they are worse and worse, not just say they are.

I didn't realise your account wasn't in this game.

That post was because:

- I heard you were a cheater
-

It sounded like you were double accounting here

Unvote

in case my predecessor has a vote out that I have not gotten to yet.

If you thought saber was double accounting and was going to cheat to find out your role, you have to be scum. If you are town, saber would have to be double accounting and be the mod to know your role. Since you are scum, you thought your scum buddy is saber's alt.

This is enough for me to

Vote:Xdaamno

.

I can't believe that the mafia elite in this game didn't jump on this already. I am through 21 pages so far, I will read the rest tomorrow. I have other suspicions than X, but this slip should not be excused.

I distinctly remember making that post as a thinly veiled jab at saber's logic. Since I can't figure out where the fault is from that quote pyramid, I'm assuming that's out of context... can you give me the post numbers, please?

[Xdaamno]

Still here, just busy and not finding anything interesting to post about when I visit this thread.

[Xdaamno]

Sorry, and well, I'm also very busy...

[Xdaamno]

This game stopped exasperating me when I stopped posting, but that wasn't exactly a good play... uh... I like the idea of this rewq lynch, Izzy was pretty scummy. I think we should just go with it and end it tomorrow if they flip town and we're still inactive.

Vote: rewq

[Xdaamno]

Claim cop, innocent on tajo, guilty on HR. Fucksy.

Vote: HR

[Xdaamno]

Didn't notice a problem with the modding at all, tubby, don't worry.