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Post Post #200 (ISO) » Wed Dec 02, 2009 4:22 pm

Post by Seregil »

ConfidAnon wrote:Setting up a dichotomy is scummy.
I only have 1 vote so I have to pick one. Again you are essentially saying that you can't discuss two people as being scummy because then you are scummy. You
both
were questioning xvart when I found nothing really questionable about his posts. Therefore I felt I had to pick one of you and I did.
ConfidAnon wrote:2. The ChiboSempai vote was only for reactions and to progress conversation away from jesters. I voted him because he was active, and therefore a vote that would likely spark some discussion.
ConfidAnon wrote:I expected a genuine scumtell, or at least some semblance of one.
Really? That's funny. You just said you voted for Chibo
to get a reaction
. Where is the scumtell in that vote??? You should really try to follow your own logic.

Your posts (Confid) have been the ones that are useful to me. First in reaction to my post and now in reaction to Humble's question. I'm really thinking of voting for Confid.
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Post Post #201 (ISO) » Wed Dec 02, 2009 7:18 pm

Post by rite »

Because I'm not a fan at all of day ones, where everything is just conjecture based on little evidence. After the first night, when you can go back and look at previous posts and try to glean something, that's what I like in this game, not the he-said she-said stuff that, in my experience, usually just ends with a random person getting lynched anyway.

On an unrelated note,
mod
, I'm out of town on business until Monday, and my internet access will be sporadic if existent.
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Post Post #202 (ISO) » Thu Dec 03, 2009 5:36 am

Post by Humble Poirot »

Sorry for the huge delay... I had not finished my post and then I was busy and pushed this forward, I'll post in 5 hs...
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Post Post #203 (ISO) » Thu Dec 03, 2009 6:21 am

Post by TheButtonmen »

Yo, I'm back, Actual post more this evening.
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Post Post #204 (ISO) » Thu Dec 03, 2009 11:04 am

Post by Boxman »

rite's V/LA noted.
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Post Post #205 (ISO) » Thu Dec 03, 2009 1:52 pm

Post by TheButtonmen »

@ Rite
, What's stopping you from looking at previous posts and trying to glean something during D1 and you realize that just giving up on D1 and not scum hunting until day two is quite anti-town?

@ Humble
, What do you mean I said scum is overt? If they were this game would be a hell of allot easier. Also Welcome to the game, hope you enjoy your stay and if you don;t mind me asking what's your previous experience with mafia?

@ Evilgorrilaz
, I of the opinion ending D1 with a policy lynch right now seems to be giving Mafia a free turn. We don;t know enough that I feel like we should bring day 1 to a close but we do know enough I think we can make a choice based on something other then annoyance

@ Arafan
, Who do you find the most scummy at this point and is there any questions you think should be asked?
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Post Post #206 (ISO) » Thu Dec 03, 2009 2:29 pm

Post by ConfidAnon »

Seregil, 200 wrote:I only have 1 vote so I have to pick one. Again you are essentially saying that you can't discuss two people as being scummy because then you are scummy. You both were questioning xvart when I found nothing really questionable about his posts. Therefore I felt I had to pick one of you and I did.
No I'm not. I could care less if you suspect me or not, but you mentioned two players, then said one is scummier. Your post set up a dichotomy. If it was between 5cvm and, oh I don't know, Aranfan, I'd still have a problem with it.
Seregil, 200, cont. wrote:Really? That's funny. You just said you voted for Chibo to get a reaction. Where is the scumtell in that vote??? You should really try to follow your own logic.

Your posts (Confid) have been the ones that are useful to me. First in reaction to my post and now in reaction to Humble's question. I'm really thinking of voting for Confid.
I see your point about the reaction vote, but my point about your vote is still valid.

Hmmm . . . why not vote me? I'm fairly certain I don't have any votes, and if you find me scummy (translation: OMGUS), what's the point of not voting? The last bit of your post sounds like you testing the waters to see if you could get a bandwagon going on me reasonably. Your getting scummier and scummier.
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Post Post #207 (ISO) » Thu Dec 03, 2009 2:30 pm

Post by Boxman »

Vote Count 5 of Day 1

5cvm (3) - A_Squirrel, hitogoroshi, rite
Aranfan (2) - TheButtonmen, ChiboSempai
TheButtonmen (2) - xvart, 5cvm
A_Squirrel (1) - Evilgorrilaz
ChiboSempai (1) - Seregil
Seregil (1) - ConfidAnon

Not Voting (2) - Aranfan, Humble Poirot
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Post Post #208 (ISO) » Thu Dec 03, 2009 3:20 pm

Post by Seregil »

ConfidAnon wrote: No I'm not. I could care less if you suspect me or not, but you mentioned two players, then said one is scummier. Your post set up a dichotomy. If it was between 5cvm and, oh I don't know, Aranfan, I'd still have a problem with it.
The dichotomy was created because you and Chibo were both questioning xvart when I felt there was no reason for it. I merely pointed it out. If you were both scum trying to build a case on someone then it is very relevant to point that out.

5cvm and Aranfan is not a relevant example because at no time have they been doing to same thing in the game (thank goodness!) and therefore I wouldn't have brought them up in the same post.


ConfidAnon wrote:Hmmm . . . why not vote me? I'm fairly certain I don't have any votes, and if you find me scummy (translation: OMGUS), what's the point of not voting? The last bit of your post sounds like you testing the waters to see if you could get a bandwagon going on me reasonably. Your getting scummier and scummier.
My vote on Chibo was 2 days after I first pointed out why I thought you two were suspicious so the fact that I didn't vote you yet is no departure from that. Also there is no deadline so I don't feel any pressure to vote. I suppose I could have unvoted but then Chibo only has one vote and is in no danger of being voted out. And if it did turn out you were both scum then a vote for either is fine.

P.S. OMGUS means a retaliatory vote for no reason other then being voted for. I have given reasons over several posts so a vote for you would not be OMGUS. Are you trying, in advance, to diminish the impact of a vote for you by dismissing it as OMGUS?
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Post Post #209 (ISO) » Thu Dec 03, 2009 6:34 pm

Post by Evilgorrilaz »

TheButtonmen wrote:
@ Evilgorrilaz
, I of the opinion ending D1 with a policy lynch right now seems to be giving Mafia a free turn. We don;t know enough that I feel like we should bring day 1 to a close but we do know enough I think we can make a choice based on something other then annoyance
Think about it this way.
1) We lynch scum. (Yay)
2) We lynch vanilla townie, which is what probably gets lynched anyways (and it lets power roles have a free night as well).
3) We lynch a power role.
For options 2 and 3, I would much rather lynch one of those that is being anti-town than being pro-town.

And its not based on annoyance. Its based on genuine anti-town play. Its like actively lurking.
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Post Post #210 (ISO) » Thu Dec 03, 2009 7:04 pm

Post by hitogoroshi »

Why are we not voting 5cvm. To everyone not voting 5cvm: What are you waiting for, exactly?
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Post Post #211 (ISO) » Thu Dec 03, 2009 9:03 pm

Post by TheButtonmen »

Okay general response to some stuff being raised here:

1. The chance of lynching town D1 isn't as forgone as your implying it is, while yes the majority of the time your going to hit town, its nowhere near 100%.

2. If we policy lynch we don't really get any new data for day 2 as due to it being a policy lynch we can't see who voted for him vs who didn't if he flips town. Also due to the methods of his posts looking for scum links seems pointless if he flips mafia.

3. Even if the chance of stringing up a townsfolk is as high you you seem to think, it's still better to lynch someone you think is giving scumtells rather then someone you think is useless / annoying.

4. There's a difference between anti town and scummy, for example 5cvm is as useful to town as tits on a bull however he isn't (Imo) acting scummy. Also while his posts appear to be random blather he isn't voting wildly and constantly, thus at the moment he doesn't;t seem to be actively hurting town, thus policy lynching him has the same effect ignoring him but wastes a lynch and gives the mafia a free kill.
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Post Post #212 (ISO) » Fri Dec 04, 2009 2:25 am

Post by Humble Poirot »

Ok. I read xvart again because I was really sleepy last night and tended to fail near the end.

-He says he doesn't buy A_squirrel's vote being decided by random.org.
I do not accept that it was a coincidence; but, I don't necessarily think it was scummy; I think it's null at this point. It shall be filed away. With that said:
This is something that I do not follow. Why didn't he think it was scummy?
The point I was making about filing it away was simply because if a pattern of behavior develops surrounding the same sort of behavior I was mentioning, it ceases to be a null tell. One simple comment that can appear scummy can be made by anyone, but if it happens over and over, then further scrutiny is needed.
Help me understand. If he continues to do this kind of things he will be more likely scum or it will be more likely an attribute of his playstyle and therefore a nulltell?

while I may understand your train of thougths, I have trouble taking in your personality. You're different from what I'm used to.

-Says he should've said IGMEOY instead of "filing Away" the matter.

sidenote:
I don't think second place is really relevant. All that matters is the win. If a jester wins first or not. It's not our problem. The only problem is reducing our chances by not lynching scum today.

tl,dr:
I feel xvart is town. A particular one. But town.
@TheButtonmen:
Do you think that if xvart is scummy because he increased his postcount after you started pressuring him?
---
After my post.
xvarts wrote: Yes, I do tend to be a little verbose. I like to write posts that are a little more extravagent to add some personal flavor.
I didn't mean you were verbose or snob. I meant that you used words that had a strong accusation implied in them. You wouldn't say a town player fabricates things, would you?

also. You're the first to mention a 3 man scumteam. Why did you? What do you think is more probable?
Aranfan wrote:I like Humble, he posts a lot of info and makes cognizant points. I feel he's town.
Thank you very much. Do you have a similar feeling on anyone else? Or a scum-read/feeling on someone?

5cvm... You've just avoided answering my questions and mocked everyone. You're climbing higher in the lynching scoreboard. If you're town, I strongly encourage you to do whatever you think you're doing to get scum. But do it fast and claim who's scum.

@Seregil.
Can you look back at my first post and answer my question?

@Evilgorrilaz:
I forgive you. :P But you haven't posted enough to have the slightest read on you. Therefore, you're as much as a liability as 5cvm.
ConfidAnon wrote: 1. No, its definitely not straightforward. I said it in a blunt manner to get reactions and add dramatic effect. AranFan was basically writing off 5cvm as scum. You can interpret it in different ways, but I feel that if 5cvm is scum, AranFan is likely scum because of it.
Ok. What if 5cvm is town? Would that mean anything regarding AranFan's allignment?
Humble Poirot wrote:Why do you try to guess teammates with no flips? How is that pro-town?
ConfidAnon wrote:3. How is it not pro-town? Scum are, excluding Masons, the only players in the game who know each others' alignments. Therefore, there will probably be some connections between them. Looking for those connections is a genuine scumhunting tactic. Obviously looking for connections should not be completely substituted for individual scummy behavior, but it can be a profitable line of inquiry.
I feel that trying to connect one player (assuming scum) with another to explain why you're voting is extremely weak and subject to manipulation. Until you have a flip, you can't link players to get a lynch. You need to lynch them for their exclusive playstyle. You can try to analyze connections once you have information from a flip. I understand your view but I don't share it. I think is a bad move. Especially early in the game. And lets not forget about the fact that usually "nothing is what it seems" in mafia.

@ChiboSempai
. I know where you come from now. But still, you should only take into account MS games. Other websites lack the theory to make really balanced setups. MS is generally more balanced because it has more documentation and history.

I DONT think 5cvm is scum. It's just to bold for what I perceive his personality to be. He might be jester. But that shouldn't concern us at all. If you think he is scum. Lynch away.
Rite wrote: I want this day to end. I've already made my thoughts on 5cvm clear-- think he's just goofing around. I'm tired of it.
This I can not tolerate. You havent posted enough to want the day to end. You provide no reads whatsoever because you've been absent (intentionally or not). You can't just end the day. Also, what if he is goofing around? Do you think scum would goof around? why? If you don't think so, why are you voting him?

@Seregil
, are you saying that 2 people that are fighting on day 1 are scum together? Why cant they be town against scum? Why can't it be town against town?
rite wrote:Because I'm not a fan at all of day ones, where everything is just conjecture based on little evidence. After the first night, when you can go back and look at previous posts and try to glean something, that's what I like in this game, not the he-said she-said stuff that, in my experience, usually just ends with a random person getting lynched anyway.

On an unrelated note,
mod
, I'm out of town on business until Monday, and my internet access will be sporadic if existent.
What posts do you pretend to glean on??? You, Evilgorrilaz, hito still need to post much more before we can get the slightest read. You keep going on V/LA and you want it to end fast? If you want the day to end now. You must surely have something to "glean"... because there wont be more posts if the day ends. What have you got. Avoiding this will cause me to vote you.
TheButtonmen wrote:
@ Humble
, What do you mean I said scum is overt? If they were this game would be a hell of allot easier. Also Welcome to the game, hope you enjoy your stay and if you don;t mind me asking what's your previous experience with mafia?
Mainly for this:
thebuttonmen wrote:@Aranfan Eliminating someone as a possible scum because they are too scummy to be scum is a terrible idea!
Sigh even if there was a a Jester; playing as a Jester is basically playing like scum (given that a jester wants to be lynched, thus they emulate scum). So if there was a jester there should be no way to tell their posts apart from scums.
Thus to assume there's a jester and ignore scummy posts for being to scummy means you also ignore scum tells from the mafia.
Bolded for emphasis. I disagree that scum and jester play alike. Jester can be overt to get lynched. He might play however he likes. Drop subtle scumtells or be pretty obv. Scum can't really do this. It would be extremely foolish. Scum only gambyts playing too scummy and trying to be seen as a jester when people start waggoning them. So, in their desperation, they might resort to this WIFOMic tactic, doomed to fail. Because they migth be vigged or inspected. They're getting to much in the spotlight.

My experience in MS is 1 & 1/2 games by myself. The 1/2 game is because we broke the setup and the mod stopped it :P. A friend of mine introduced me to mafia and allowed me to contribute in his games. I've read like 13-15 gamse. I know the wiki. I've played some lame games on other sites too. I've played some basic mafia IRL too. That's about it. Without being arrogant, I'd like to consider myself a decent player. But I still have trouble sometimes separating bad logic from scum logic. Town can make mistakes too. I try to get reads on everyone before moving on. I don't want d1 to end fast without expressing who I think is scum with a decent degree of certainty.

anyway... what is scum's posting style? you mention it here. Have you seen someone posting like that?
Seregil wrote:Also there is no deadline so I don't feel any pressure to vote.
Dont you think votes are useful? They serve the purpose of pressure and they clearly define who you're accusing.

Evilgorrilaz: I think you're the one active lurking. You've said very little in the last few posts. I'm going to ask you something. What if 5cvm was modkilled and flipped town? Who would you vote then? What if he flipped jester?
hitogoroshi wrote:Why are we not voting 5cvm. To everyone not voting 5cvm: What are you waiting for, exactly?
I dont think he is scum. Why do you want to lynch him so fast? What do you think about people like rite, hito or evilgorrilaz? How do you intend to get them if any of those are scum?

Even if we ended up lynching 5cvm we shouldn't end the day quickly unless everyone has posted enough content about the game.

I like.

Ok. From now on, I'll post once a day if possible. Im caught up.

So I'll
vote Evilgorillaz
but rite looks like a good candidate too. If I'm going to lynch someone. I'd rather lynch people I can't read at all and that seem to be trying to be in the spotlight.
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Post Post #213 (ISO) » Fri Dec 04, 2009 5:16 am

Post by Aranfan »

TheButtonmen wrote: @ Arafan[/b], Who do you find the most scummy at this point and is there any questions you think should be asked?
Gorilla needs to lurk less and contribute more.




@ Humble, I'll respond after I get some food.
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Post Post #214 (ISO) » Fri Dec 04, 2009 6:03 am

Post by Aranfan »

Humble Poirot wrote:
Aranfan wrote:I like Humble, he posts a lot of info and makes cognizant points. I feel he's town.
Thank you very much. Do you have a similar feeling on anyone else? Or a scum-read/feeling on someone?
Not really. 5cvm is either a jester or a moron, and while Button is pinging my scumdar, it isn't hard enough for me to actually vote him. Everyone else is kinda neutral or needs to lurk less.
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Post Post #215 (ISO) » Fri Dec 04, 2009 6:45 am

Post by hitogoroshi »

Humble, the thing is that 5cvm has made it abundantly clear he never intends to offer content. I don't want to keep a player like that until the endgame; he will be an active detriment to town. And the time to do a lynch like that is now, because we'll have more content D2 to work off of to pick our lynch (a nk and more posts, as well as knowledge of 5cvm's flip.) Do you really intend to leave him around the entire game? Do you really want to say, "Congratulations, 5cvm, you are such a terrible player we're going to let you live despite the fact you will never be a productive member of this game!"

As such, I'm keen to string up him so we can move on to more concrete matters. There is a such thing as 'too much content' and 'too long of a day', and the fact is D1 is one prone to mislynches because there is a lot of speculation and not much real information. It's a perfect day to policy lynch, because we don't NEED to know about everyone else: we know 5cvm is going to play anti-town, so we can murder him alignment be damned. It really is that simple.
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Post Post #216 (ISO) » Fri Dec 04, 2009 7:24 am

Post by 5cvm »

Are you guys really falling for hitogoroshi's thing? ^^

Although, scum might feel bad about calling names... hm, do scum get meaner or nicer? Hm, I guess it depends on who it is.

Ok yeah hitscum if I didn't already know you were scum I would have just found you out go me. :)

Update: TheButtonmen, xvart, and hitorogoshi are scum. Wait did I already say that before? Oh, right, only two other scum... hit is informed SK I forgot.

Please play nice guys. :P Except for hitorogoshi he gets a pass.
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Post Post #217 (ISO) » Fri Dec 04, 2009 11:21 am

Post by A_Squirrel »

ConfidAnon wrote:
Seregil, 153 wrote:First, unvote as it was a random vote.

I'll follow up on my last post. Of Confid and Chibo I find Chibo more suspicious. When I last made notes he said (p3 somewhere) "I don't like xvart's replies."

I didn't find anything wrong with them so maybe Chibo was trying to make xvart seem more suspicous at a time where he was being questioned by others.

Vote Chibo
I don't like this post.
The second section sounds like your setting up an ultimatum of "One of Confid/Chibo is scum."
Scum could easily do this, try to get one lynched, and then when they flip town say that the other (presumably town) gets lynched as well.
Explain the bolded section please. I fail to see how Seregil sets up a dichotomy.
Seregil wrote:
xvart wrote:I don't see what the big deal about Seregil's comment
I don't either. Perhaps instead of looking at Chibo and Confid I should be looking at Chibo and hito?
Why drop Confid in favor of Hito?
ConfidAnon wrote:Gotta love that avoidance of a question. You can find multiple people suspicious at one time, but I find it odd that you group us together and single us out for no given reason.
Correct. But finding two people scummy does not set up a dichotomy. Person A and Person B are scummy != Either A or B are scum.
Humble Poirot wrote:A_Squirrel: Okay. I cheated here. Hearing the same argument that Aranfan used. I went to see who had issued it first (I can see that there might be some sort of unfairness in the order in wich I read the ISOs but I think I can work around it objectively, especially if I reread the whole game later)
It appears that A_squirrel just mimicked Aranfan. But not only that. He claimed it was from random.org. This I find scummy. The need to "blame" the votes on someone else looks like a preemptive defense mechanism. His explanation for this is unsatisfying. Then I see of a lot that looks like scumhunting. I like it from there so I will call it a null-tell and watch it from here. He doesn't seem to push to much but that may be his playstyle.
I stand by my earlier explanation. And in case you didn't notice, Aranfan and I posted at the same time. No mimicking. Also, do you see anything that you feel I should have pushed?
Xvart wrote:When we lynch TheButtonmen and he flips scum, the first place I'm looking is A_Squirrel since he not only random votes but also justifies it as actually being random based on a website.
So button is number one on your list(and you're sure he's scum), and I am number two? And my position is based on the earlier coincidence , which you said was a null and would be filed away for later? So what changed your mind?

@Hitogoroshi
:
Was post Seregil's response satisfactory? You gave him an ultimatum and then ignored him.
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Post Post #218 (ISO) » Fri Dec 04, 2009 11:44 am

Post by Evilgorrilaz »

Less inclined to go for a lynch on 5cvm now. His last post was very nice.
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Post Post #219 (ISO) » Fri Dec 04, 2009 11:50 am

Post by hitogoroshi »

Oh, is the standard how nice our posts are, and not whether or not they address anything in the game at all? In that case I'm going to stop posting content and just post a picture of a kitten once a day. Town, please ignore my entire lack of participation and let me live for the entire game unmolested, because hey, there's NO WAY scum would try to get away with that sort of thing, right?

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Post Post #220 (ISO) » Fri Dec 04, 2009 12:06 pm

Post by 5cvm »

I gave you a pass, but you have gone above and beyond the call of duty.

If I didn't have role information indicating you are scum, you would be so totally towny right now. <3
Less inclined to go for a lynch on 5cvm now. His last post was very nice.
See, if he wasn't being sarcastic, this guy would understand!

Biggest thing to note here is that xvart has convieniently decreased his posting frequency now that he doesn't have to defend himself anymore. I should advise him to take a page out of TheButtonmen's book and post vague information and slightly helpful slightly directed questions.
Cases are overrated. Point to something blatantly scummy and insist that people are idiots if they don't see it and agree that the perpetrator is scum. ~Vi
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Post Post #221 (ISO) » Fri Dec 04, 2009 12:21 pm

Post by Aranfan »

Evilgorrilaz wrote:Less inclined to go for a lynch on 5cvm now. His last post was very nice.
:shock: :? :evil:

Moron. Humble's posts are nice, 5cvm's second to last post was worthless. His latest isn't much better.
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Post Post #222 (ISO) » Fri Dec 04, 2009 12:36 pm

Post by xvart »

hitogoroshi wrote:Oh, is the standard how nice our posts are, and not whether or not they address anything in the game at all? In that case I'm going to stop posting content and just post a picture of a kitten once a day. Town, please ignore my entire lack of participation and let me live for the entire game unmolested, because hey, there's NO WAY scum would try to get away with that sort of thing, right?
This post was gold. I'll be posting in a couple hours.

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Post Post #223 (ISO) » Fri Dec 04, 2009 1:33 pm

Post by xvart »

Humble Poirot wrote:Ok. I read xvart again because I was really sleepy last night and tended to fail near the end.

-He says he doesn't buy A_squirrel's vote being decided by random.org.
I do not accept that it was a coincidence; but, I don't necessarily think it was scummy; I think it's null at this point. It shall be filed away. With that said:
This is something that I do not follow. Why didn't he think it was scummy?
Like I said (quote below), anyone can make a scummy statement, but when the behavior repeats, it needs further scrutiny. I found the comment such an interesting coincidence, and unverifiable one to boot, that I felt it was worth the vote at that stage in the game. It was scummy enough to warrant my first vote on the first page.
xvart wrote:The point I was making about filing it away was simply because if a pattern of behavior develops surrounding the same sort of behavior I was mentioning, it ceases to be a null tell. One simple comment that can appear scummy can be made by anyone, but if it happens over and over, then further scrutiny is needed.
Humble Poirot wrote:
The point I was making about filing it away was simply because if a pattern of behavior develops surrounding the same sort of behavior I was mentioning, it ceases to be a null tell. One simple comment that can appear scummy can be made by anyone, but if it happens over and over, then further scrutiny is needed.
Help me understand. If he continues to do this kind of things he will be more likely scum or it will be more likely an attribute of his playstyle and therefore a nulltell?
Yes. Say A_Squirrel hammers some townsperson out of the blue and then says at the opening of the next day, "sorry everyone, I was drunk and did not realize so-and-so was at L-1. I wouldn't have placed my vote otherwise" I would consider that a potential fabrication of events to justify an action. That is what I was referring to about pattern of behavior. In that example, I would consider it a playstyle of covering his ass and scummy.
Humble Poirot wrote:I feel xvart is town. A particular one. But town.
I'll take that as a compliment.
Humble Poirot wrote:I didn't mean you were verbose or snob. I meant that you used words that had a strong accusation implied in them.
I didn't take it that way. I feel that giving a slight edge to posts gets a better/stronger reaction as opposed to asking one syllable worded questions.
Humble Poirot wrote:You wouldn't say a town player fabricates things, would you?
Generally speaking, no; or at least I hope not. But then again, it is not outside the realm of possibility.
Humble Poirot wrote:also. You're the first to mention a 3 man scumteam. Why did you? What do you think is more probable?
I did? Can you remind me where? I don't recall speaking about scum teams, but if I did it is probably because I just finished a 12 person game with 3 scum.

@A_Squirrel - I'll get your questions in a few minutes; I'm not ignoring you.

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Post Post #224 (ISO) » Fri Dec 04, 2009 1:46 pm

Post by xvart »

A_Squirrel wrote:
Xvart wrote:When we lynch TheButtonmen and he flips scum, the first place I'm looking is A_Squirrel since he not only random votes but also justifies it as actually being random based on a website.
So button is number one on your list(and you're sure he's scum), and I am number two? And my position is based on the earlier coincidence , which you said was a null and would be filed away for later? So what changed your mind?
Honestly you had fallen off my radar, and I can't remember what the connection was. I think I was just posting my plans at the time to press you next. I also think I poorly led into the next comment about how if TheButtonmen, 5cvm, and you all turned out scum I would "crap my pants," just based on the opening of the day. At this time, I have no feelings towards you.

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