Mini 869 - Frat Party Mafia (GAME OVER!)

[Taranski]

uievgivbeve

[Taranski]

so how do I watch/subscribe to certain topics?

[Taranski]

I have a bad feeling about this.

vote: bc

[Taranski]

also, thanks random-letter-named guy

[Taranski]

omg seraphim you're sooooo good.

why do I even play when I get found out so easily..

=/

[Taranski]

CB. Claim or die.

Why are you asking this? It's clear you already know he's scum. Nice attempt to try and look town though.

I hope your not serious with all of this.

There a problem with it?

[Taranski]

There a problem with it?

You don't see a problem with it?

No.

[Taranski]

I asked because you should have a problem with it. You are one of the players that he has named as scum. Why don't you have a problem with it?

It was clearly a joke, I'm sure that that was fairly apparent to anyone with a sense of humor.

[Taranski]

sarcasm tags just make me appreciate the sarcasm less

[Taranski]

I didn't think whoever said that was serious.

even if he is, not gonna quicklynch someone for such a reason.

[Taranski]

lol we'll see BC

[Taranski]

hmmm, drk, can you confirm that you are being legit and not fuckin around cuz of RVS

[Taranski]

wtf are you talking about. How is that shit rolefishing, I was asking if he was being serious.

[Taranski]

I just want to make sure he isn't joking which was the first impression I got.

[Taranski]

And if he isn't joking he doesn't have to claim for mafia to strongly believe he has a investigative PR. Just that in itself would be fine.

[Taranski]

Notice I said quicklynch not lynch. And joking in the sense that he's gonna come back tomorrow all "oh I was clearly just jerking your chain". But yea, if it's not a joke, than Nham is the obvious play.

Lyncher/Traitor are the only roles that where I could see scum pulling a maneuver like this. Not sure if you guys' normal has roles like that though.

[Taranski]

OK, but the question being asked was whether it was serious, and you asked if there was a problem if it was serious. And I think that there is a problem if it was serious. And so should you.

It just was obviously not serious. It didn't even cross my mind that you could actually come to such a far-fecthed conclusion.

@ first bolded. what are you trying to say here?
@ second bold.

FoS

for suggesting these roles.

That I wouldn't be ok with a quick bandwagon on this guy. Essentially provides us with no discussion d1.
Don't really know what was wrong with the roles.

I find that anti-town in the sense that it's

like

giving the implication of a jester. If DRK had truly had a guilty, then Taranski implies that DRK could be a lyncher, or something else, then that attracts the town from the original guilty result, and leads the town to possibly lynch DRK. And it is bad, and very anti-town.

Unvote:
Vote: Taranski

I'm sure you don't think I would have tried to start lobbying for DRK's lynch if that's where you are going with all this. That would clearly not be the proper play, and is just illogical. I was just reacting to what was happening and brainstorming ways in which scum would possibly do fakeclaim a guilty result knowing the implications. And those are the only 2 I came up with. [Actually just came up with another one but I don't know if i'll get chewed out for presenting this idea too.{Not that this matter's anyways since DRK already confirmed he was just pulling a fast one to get responses. DRK, I think you should of waited longer, especially, if you weren't going to post your reaction findings in the post you revealed that you were doing this. It could have fished out more reactions. But I mean, maybe you thought there was a possibility in nham getting hammered that night iono.}]

Not sure why you think speculation like this is

very

anti-town. If anything, presenting these ideas would give people more stuff to look at and respond to. Leading us to more reactions and more material we can look to for our lynch.

But all in all, I really don't think that you believed that I was going to lobby for DRK's lynch because I brought up those roles. I can kind of see what you are trying to get at, but it just seems like you are grasping for straws. Also, if we were to quicklynch before nham revealed it was just a ploy to fish reactions, that could have ended up being very bad for us.

Also, stuff to consider: The reaction to this lil play are clearly semi-dependent on what allignment Nham is. I'm pretty sure scum would respond to this even quite differently if nham was one of them and if he wasn't. I am current brainstorming actions scum would make in both situations.

Sorry if my post is hard to follow, I am a very rambly player, and I usually just post what comes to my mind immediately. And cuz I just woke up.

New stuff I see below me in this topic review thingy:
Groin, It would probably be best if you actually said what scumminess you saw, instead of making the general statement that you made. Even if you are not exactly sure, posting what sticks out to you even in the tiniest bit is beneficial to town.

CB, I do similar stuff to what DRK did all the time when I play mafia in the forum that I regular. I think it's fair for DRK to point out. However usually when I point stuff like that out in games I've been in, other players say I shouldn't be using that to make judgements on peoples alignments.

[Taranski]

The last thing that I'm having problems with isn't the challenge:

show me the confirmation. If you were a day cop, and truly investigated me, then you would not be calling me confirmed scum.

but the cat picture response of 'BACDAFUKUP' {lolz}.

@ BC - can you tell me why have you flipped yr. vote around so much & why did you get so angry @ Nachomamma8??

p.s.

dude, quit role fishing.

you must've forgotten - you've already been doing that yr.self;)

Groin makes a really good point in that BloodC was chopping my head off when I asked CRK if he was serious. He immediately accused me of rolefishing even though that was nowhere near my intention. But then he does it even more blatantly to nacho.

vote: bloodcovenant

i think we should just call bloodcovenant blood, and the CB guy canada. It would help me[others] not get confused between BC and CB.

also nhamman and nachomamma8 look similar to me as well. I can see this causing problems for me with my dyslexic self. Nacho and Nham, Blood and Canada ok.

[Taranski]

Do you think I was trying to/going to try to lobby for a lynch other than nham?

It wasn't rolefishing child, I was asking him if he was being serious or not. Some how you made that equate to rolefishing, in order to shed a bad light on me. AND at the same time, you asked Nacho to "show [you] the confirmation" of you being scum and then you even go and speculate whether or not he would call you "confirmed scum" if he was the day cop. If anything, this is more a case of role-fishing. And you're being hypocritical for calling me out on it, when you did something much worse. That's why my vote is on you.

[Taranski]

ebwop: other than nham, when I brought up those 2 roles?

[Taranski]

Yea nacho is whole argument/case agaisnt me is clearly just all a joke

[Taranski]

Um... I was being sarcastic.

I think his case was pretty shoddy, but it didn't at all seem like a joke, and i'm pretty sure it wasn't.

Nacho, what do you think about the events that transpired...? Specifically between blood and me.

[Taranski]

But you've all been fooled. Seraphim is playing the town role to the hilt.

Vote: Seraphim

. You're not fooling me. And all who endorse his wagon, a

FoS

on you.

is this a joke vote?

[Taranski]

unvote

dragonfly, was putting him at L-2 necessary? BC needs to post. fqabexbe, cb, kise[and more possibly, dont really remember everyone thats in the game] need to comment on the situation.

fos: CB

for only responding to DRK's FOS of him/her out[about being online during the incident] instead of commenting on the DRK situation.

[Taranski]

so you think that we should lynch BC because of something that kitty said that wasnt true and therefore is irrelevant to the game?

honestly he had the correct mindset.

if kitty wasn't just saying that to get us out of the RVS,

we could lynch the "scum" if not, we lynch kitty tommorow, because what good would a townie have at randomly pointing a finger and saying they're scum.

his logic is correct.

he assumed you were serious. thats the only reason he's almost getting lynched right now?

-not backing BC lynch-

Well it obviously seems like BC took what DRK said to be true. So with that in mind, he was right in the idea that we lynch the claimed-scum. But quick-lynching wouldn't have at all been necessary.

What's really scummy about what he did [atleast to me]. Is his case against me. It's like he was desperately just trying to paint me in a bad light. There was no way I was rolefishing, and his accusing me of that is pretty much just bullshit[It's even worse when you consider that he was doing something similar but much worse to Nacho when he tells him to "Show [him] the confirm" and speculates about him being a day cop].

I also don't see how suggesting 2 alternate possibilities as to why DRK may do something like this both anti-town and scummy. He is just grasping for straws and purposely taking every thing I do and twisting and making it seem scummy.

[Taranski]

so where yall at

[Taranski]

you don't wanna know...

mod:

>=[

[Taranski]

also, im expecting a post from yu. Just assuming that you're writing it right now.

[Taranski]

A question to everyone, first of all.

I think it's very important that you answer this truthfully.

When you first read DRK's claim of a guilty on nhammen, what was your gut reaction?

I thought it was a joke. When BC started saying it was real, I started to look into that possibility and asked DRK whether it was a joke or not.

However, this was not the right play in this situation which is why I think BC is most likely town. This leads into WIFOM, of course, but I believe a scum player would have thought twice about declaring his intent to lynch on what possibly may have been a post made in jest. Even his attacks on Taranski and his "defense" against Nacho's "confirm" seem to be overzealous town as opposed to stupid scum.

I was also considering the possibility that he was overzealous and just missing clear obvious flaws in his argument.

Taranski might be scum based on his reactions and his weird Lyncher/Traitor speculation. Honestly, I hate setup speculation based on erratic play. Scum always look for shades of grey when it's clear cut: town vs anti town. Lynch the anti town, save the town. It's not that difficult.

FoS: Taranski

I mean, I can kind of see where you and BC are coming from on this point. But it was not at all my intention to defer from the nham lynch.

Taranski looks scummier and scummier. If you were fishing for reactions by bringing up third-party that are unlikey to show up in a game, please analyze these reactions plz. Also, coaching Groiny? Also, following GROINY's lead on BC? Bah.

Woah i doubt I said that my intentions with suggesting those roles were to fish for reactions. My thought on the matter is that suggesting said roles just leads to more discussion and more places where other players have to chip in, which can be evaluated for information later and hence was a pro-town action.

Seraphim's 165 seems almost suspiciously pro-BC. In my eyes, Seraphim defended him as much or more than he defended himself. I could really see that post as either attempted buddying or defense of a scumbuddy whom he saw as being in trouble.

I agree but, I'm not getting Seraphim as scum because of it, instead it's actually the obvious. His statements like: "BC is so town that I am in physical pain from the amount of town he is exuding. Seriously." show he has a very strong opinion on this matter and he is doing nothing to hide the fact. I think when mafia go about buddying or defending a scumpartner, that they generally do so in a much less obvious manner. Sera is blatantly bringing attention to the fact that he doesn't think BC is scum and such a post would definitely stand out later and could definitely come back to hurt him if BC is scum. It also would force him to stand by his town-read on BC. This would make it much harder for him to jump on a BC bw in order to lynch. But since he makes this post, I doubt he was thinking about said implications. Which makes him seem town to me and not Mafia worried about what stances they take.

Yes, you were voting me at the time. and if you're town, then voting is one of your tools. All votes added up can equal a lynch.

I was voting you coming out of the RVS. I had stated my willingness to go along with a Nham lynch if DRK was being serious. But I wasn't going to put my vote on him at that time because; 1. I wasn't sure if he was serious. 2. I wasn't advocating for such a quicklynch. and 3. It seemed like you were trying to bully me into voting for him by immediately calling me his scumpartner.

As for rolefishing, yes you were.
- you wanted him to "confirm," whether or not he actually had received a guilty result. If that were a true scenario, you would expect him to claim, or at least give something out that was about his role. And that information isn't necessarily needed to be discussed among the town. The only thing that should occur, is a bandwagon onto said guilty result, and a claim would follow. Maybe depending on the claim, we would lynch the player or not. If that guilty player flipped town, then we would have lynched DRK.
-By asking if he was serious, you would know that he was an information role. And as scum, you know that's bad.

Can you read back and tell me that I was really trying to rolefish? I didn't know whether or not he was being serious or was still "fucking around because of RVS". This is what I was asking him to confirm. It is blatantly obvious that this was my intention and not rolefishing and the fact that you keep pushing this point continues to bother me. I hate being misrepresented. Which you were doing with this rolefishing thing, and acting like I was going to try to steer town away from an Nham lynch.

- Read above, I never stated that I wanted to quick lynch, anyone.
-I think you're just angry that I pointed you out.
-That's called confirmation bias, you weren't role fishing because you didn't want to think that you were role fishing.

-It definitely seemed as if that was your intention especially when you attacked me for saying I wasn't going to quicklynch.
-I'm getting annoyed becuz I'm getting misrepresented.
-That's called me knowing why the fuck I've said certain things. And rolefishing was not a reason.

[Taranski]

GROINHAMMER. I don't like your opening post in the real game. I don't BC is a good place to put your vote at all for a number of reasons that I have alright stated. Not to mention that your post is so general it's funny. Funnily scummy. Oh and your case on BC is rather terrible. The self-vote is not a scumtell and I love people who try to argue that it is. And how was he rolefishing, WTF?

I agree that groin's first post just seemed like scum giving lacking reasoning for hopping onto a BW. Though the end of groin's post did remind me that BC was doing exactly what he was accused me of doing but even worse.

Unvote:
Vote: nhammen

Very simple solution here. We lynch Nham, and if he flips town, then DRK dies. If he flips scum, then DRK is either town, or scum that is willing to lose his partner in a gambit.

We need more votes on Nham. Anyone that does not vote him will be labeled his scumbuddy.

Why should I follow the advice of a confirmed mafioso?

show me the confirmation. If you were a day cop, and truly investigated me, then you would not be calling me confirmed scum.

How is this not more of a case of rolefishing than

hmmm, drk, can you confirm that you are being legit and not fuckin around cuz of RVS

BC explicitly tells nacho to show the confirmation. He then goes on to make a bad speculation as to what a day-cop would do if he got a guilty result on him. The speculation can be seen as attempted rolefishing because it would be fishing for tells in the response that Nacho would give the speculation. Especially since iirc, Nacho never even said anything about being a day-cop.

BC, what do you say to this? It seems like you are being hypocritical in your accusation of me rolefishing. It also seems like you are being blind if you can't see that I wasn't rolefishing at all.

[Taranski]

However, this was not the right play in this situation which is why I think BC is most likely town. This leads into WIFOM, of course, but I believe a scum player would have thought twice about declaring his intent to lynch on what possibly may have been a post made in jest. Even his attacks on Taranski and his "defense" against Nacho's "confirm" seem to be overzealous town as opposed to stupid scum.

I agree with this. If he was really seriously believing this claim, it almost guarantees he's town. If he was scum he would know if DRK fingered the right person. Advocating the lynch of a known partner would have broken his 'let's lynch DRK afterwards' argument.

As I was making this post, I was going to say I agree with this. But it's easily possible that nham isn't scum and BC was trying to get 2 guaranteed mislynches.

His plan was clearly the correct play. His pushing of it is just a null-tell though. Doesn't make him anymore townie to me, especially if nham were ever flip town.

[Taranski]

ebwop

BC explicitly tells nacho to show the confirmation.

Again, how would this play if he was scum?

Not really getting this point.

also,

fos: groinhammer

[Taranski]

hmmm, that makes sense. If he was scum he wouldn't really be rolefishing cuz hed know nacho was a daycop, if he was town then it doesn't matter if he's rolefishing or not.

hmm, i guess that makes sense. I guess if he was scum he could just be asking that to see if he could save his ass... but i'm convinced for now

unvote

[Taranski]

vote: groinhammer

[Taranski]

Woah i doubt I said that my intentions with suggesting those roles were to fish for reactions. My thought on the matter is that suggesting said roles just leads to more discussion and more places where other players have to chip in, which can be evaluated for information later and hence was a pro-town action.

Like I said, if your intent was to get reactions, please, please, please analyze them. Just like DRK's gambit...hunting for reactions is pro-town only if you look at those reactions.

I'm saying tha my original intention wasn't to get or hunt for reactions when I made that post. I was just openly speculation. What I am arguing is that I don't think that bringing them up were necessarily bad and may actually be pro-town because they generate discussion on a new topic and can be evaluated for information later. I'm not implying that I should be seen as pro-town because I brought up, but that the action in and of itself could be seen as protown.

i dont concur. he isnt rolefishing. Nacho said that BC is confirmed scum.

I'm not really getting what you are saying here. Nacho and DRK said similar things. Nacho said, BC was confirmed scum, while DRK said he got a PM from the mod that Nham was scum. What I did was ask DRK if he was being serious or not because his claim seemed rather outlandish and it was during the RVS stage. What Blood did was ask nacho for confirmation on him being scum and then speculated to what a day cop would do. My whole point in this is that, BC's post can seems to be much more of a case of rolefishing then what I did.

how would he know nacho was a daycop if he was scum.

and why are there day or night flavors?? this isnt day night mafia!

If he was scum, and Nacho said he was confirmed scum and wasn't joking, the only way that would make sense would be if Nacho was a daycop and investigated him.

Not sure what you mean by the daynight mafia thing.

I'd like more people to weigh in on Groin.

[Taranski]

Also I am curious to see what Seraphim comes up with about DRK.

[Taranski]

what do you mean i have the same town meta as dramonic? that I play like him or something?

And was BC not being serious at all when he was like attacking me? I was under the impression that he was completely serious.

[Taranski]

Taranski looks scummier and scummier. If you were fishing for reactions by bringing up third-party that are unlikey to show up in a game, please analyze these reactions plz. Also, coaching Groiny? Also, following GROINY's lead on BC? Bah.

I missed this when posting a few days ago. It wasn't coaching, I guess it may seem that way but I don't like when someone posts "oh this is interesting". We get no information from that and those are the kind of posts lurkers/coasters use to get by. I wanted him to immediately take a side in the BC/Taranski situation, because that would actually give town information to analyze for later. If he says, "oh this is interesting and then waits for more people to post, he can just adhere to what the general consensus on the situation is.

"Following Groiny's lead" nah. He just reminded me of that post where BC asked nacho for confirmation. I guess when I saw the quote in Groin's post, I thought he came to the same conclusion as I about BC's hypocritical rolefishing. But I was wrong, you can see in my post after his that I credit Groin for the point that I make, but if you look back at Groin's post see that he made no such point like that.

Also the scumminess of Groiny's post didn't really stand out to me until Seraphim pointed it out. I guess I overlooked it because I was tunneling a bit on BC and the idea that Groin agreed that BC was scummy made him look better in my eyes. But now that Seraphim pointed it out, and I'm not thinking BC is as scummy as I once earlier thought I think groin's two post were hella suspect. His case against BC was absolute trash.

His plan was clearly the correct play. His pushing of it is just a null-tell though. Doesn't make him anymore townie to me, especially if nham were ever flip town.

Can you explain why you think it's a null-tell?

Because since it is the obvious proper town play in a situation where someone claims a guilty, then scum would obviously want to seen pushing a play like that. And also the idea that if nham was town, BC could have hopped on the idea of the 2 guaranteed MLs.

I find myself agreeing with Kise on CB. I am not getting a good feeling about him/her. But Groin remains number one on my list of suspicions.

[Taranski]

Yea Seraphim, I think your case on DRK is fairly lacking. It does seem like you took a whole bunch of nulltells and tried to use them to make a case against DRK.

Just wondering, do all 4 of you guys on BC still think he is scum? Personally, BC is still on my list of suspicions but not as high up as before.

[Taranski]

what? you said you think I am town and that i lean scum in the same post... which is it? And theres no DRK in your list of suspicions in the end, even though you voted him earlier on? Whats the deal?

Also, to you and anyone else. Do you think both BC and I would be on the same mafia team?

[Taranski]

hmmmm. That's a fairly hard question. I haven't been paying attention to nham at all. And drk can go either way, I found Sera's case on him lacking. I'm going to reread soon though so I'll def come back to that question.

[Taranski]

Also whats with the question to saber? Don't see what you expect to gain by knowing who saber thinks is most town.

[Taranski]

what does plurality mean

[Taranski]

Guys I'm still here. Have had nothing new to really contribute. I'm gonna get to a reread soon and see if I can come up with something good.

[Taranski]

whats your case on me again?

[Taranski]

i'm def ok with helping push the BC lynch through. Wanna do a reread first, which ill try to get in sometime in the morning. Sorry for falling off into inactivityness during the later part of d1

[Taranski]

DRK, BC WAS CONVINCED THAT YOU WERE SCUM! WHAT DO YOU HAVE TO SAY TO THAT. [and me too =/]

disappointed in the replacements.

[Taranski]

I suggest we have a look at BC's scumlist. I have my disagreements with the players he listed, but I'd like to hear what you guys have to say about it. Also would love to hear from our replacements.

This would be more useful if he had been NKed, and not lynched. Scum don't really care what his opinions were as long as he gets lynched instead of them. I don't have much to say about his scumlist, especially as it was pretty big to begin with. I'm currently thinking that the odds of somebody on that list being scum are good enough though, seeing how large it is, so I may later choose one of you to vote. However, bringing up the list is a good sacrificial move to steer away from more important scumbuddies, but I'm not gonna push it as far as that, as it's much more unlikely to occur.

i agree with this.
/useless post

[Taranski]

aww and i was coming back just in time. Could have avoided that prod

anyways.

starbuck, what was wrong with my 102? I can see the lyncher/traitor speculation was dumb but not how asking drk whether he was serious or not was dumb.

vote: omgl

OBVLURKYINACTIVESCUM

starbuck, you posted notes but who are you suspicious of?

[Taranski]

@Taranski - Not notes, analysis/suspicions. Also, I already stated how I felt about your 102. You were believing him without him even stating that he was a cop or some type of investigative role. Are you normally this gullible?

did you even read?

I didn't believe it at first until BC started shoving it down my throat. So i was checking with DRK to find out.

and I just saw your post on me. I'll respond to that in a bit

[Taranski]

On Taranski

Post 126 - So you voted him because he questioned your motives? And rather than answer him, you voted for him. Real pro-town there, buddy.

And? I thought his pushing for my lynch was not because he actually thought I was scummy. It felt like he was just looking for someone to paint suspicion on. I couldn't understand why anyone would find what I had said thus far even remotely scummy. [except for the lyncher/traitor thing]. And the way it seemed like he wanted me to quicklynch nhammen and called me scum when I said I thought DRK was kidding and that I wasn't going to quicklynch him.

What's really scummy about what he did [atleast to me]. Is his case against me. It's like he was desperately just trying to paint me in a bad light. There was no way I was rolefishing, and his accusing me of that is pretty much just bullshit[It's even worse when you consider that he was doing something similar but much worse to Nacho when he tells him to "Show [him] the confirm" and speculates about him being a day cop].

I also don't see how suggesting 2 alternate possibilities as to why DRK may do something like this both anti-town and scummy. He is just grasping for straws and purposely taking every thing I do and twisting and making it seem scummy.

Very weak defense of yourself here.

alright? maybe explain how its weak instead of just making dumb comments like this.

That post that BC referred to if read in a certain way does come off as rolefishing. The fact that you won't even admit the possibility of this bothers me.

BC then explains this more and I need to QFT it:

As for rolefishing, yes you were.
- you wanted him to "confirm," whether or not he actually had received a guilty result. If that were a true scenario, you would expect him to claim, or at least give something out that was about his role. And that information isn't necessarily needed to be discussed among the town. The only thing that should occur, is a bandwagon onto said guilty result, and a claim would follow. Maybe depending on the claim, we would lynch the player or not. If that guilty player flipped town, then we would have lynched DRK.
-By asking if he was serious, you would know that he was an information role. And as scum, you know that's bad.

Why should he not have asked Nacho to show him where he was confirmed scum? Nacho used the word 'confirmed' which in front of town or scum means irrefutable information that a person is such a faction.

I don't see where he was grasping for straws, care to show some examples?

I also don't think he was twisting your words because I can see what he saw about your actions.

I'm still dumbfounded as to how anyone could read my post as rolefishing. I already explained that I wanted to know whether or not drk was joking or not. as it even explicitly states in the post where I am supposedly rolefishing.

That whole argument was dumb in the first place cuz scum would have no need to rolefish. If drk claimed he got a scum/town on someone, anyone would just automatically assume he was an investigative role.

Another reason why I found BC scummy. His trying to push that as rolefishing was just grasping for straws. Just taking everything I said and trying to make it seem like the scummiest shit ever.

My thought on the matter is that suggesting said roles just leads to more discussion and more places where other players have to chip in, which can be evaluated for information later and hence was a pro-town action.

Not on MS.

alright. I understand my mistake. I was just saying what came to mind without thinking about whether it would benefit the town to say these things.

Post 172

BC explicitly tells nacho to show the confirmation. He then goes on to make a bad speculation as to what a day-cop would do if he got a guilty result on him. The speculation can be seen as attempted rolefishing because it would be fishing for tells in the response that Nacho would give the speculation. Especially since iirc, Nacho never even said anything about being a day-cop.

BC, what do you say to this? It seems like you are being hypocritical in your accusation of me rolefishing. It also seems like you are being blind if you can't see that I wasn't rolefishing at all.

How is the second quote in 162 in anyway rolefishing? Nacho blatantly called BC 'confirmed mafia' and BC asked him for proof. That's not rolefishing in the least imho. He wants to know where Nacho is getting his info from. Knowing his alignment now, you stating that as rolefishing is very, very scummy. I'm surprised no one else called you out on this when it happened.

What? Are you serious right now? Like I can't comprehend why you would think that I'm scummy for bringing this up. I was pointing out how BC was
being hypocritical by doing something that can easily be seen as rolefishing but then biting my head off when he sees me make a post that only he seemed to think was rolefishing.

Are you implying that its different because nacho called BC 'confirmed mafia'? Like seriously? Cuz drk saying that the mod told him that someone was scum is completely different.

I really don't like your constant defense of Nacho either. It definitely feels like buddying to me.

Now this is just plain stupid. Link me to a post where I defended nacho. [I may have, but I don't remember.] Are you equating me bringing up the BC rolefishing thing to defending nacho? Was there even a point in time when nacho was under suspicion and needed defense?

Post 177

hmmm, that makes sense. If he was scum he wouldn't really be rolefishing cuz hed know nacho was a daycop, if he was town then it doesn't matter if he's rolefishing or not.

hmm, i guess that makes sense. I guess if he was scum he could just be asking that to see if he could save his ass... but i'm convinced for now

First off, WIFOM!

Say what? How can you go from two posts ago saying he was rolefishing and flipping around to saying that he's not?

um how is it wifom? I said if he was scum, there would be no need for him to rolefish because he would have already known if nacho was being legit or not.

Um.... if I remember correctly someone brought up something between the two posts which made me think of that. So I made that observation and decided that BC can't be held accountable/suspicious for roleishing.

You then flip right back around to saying that he was rolefishing again with this:

I'm not really getting what you are saying here. Nacho and DRK said similar things. Nacho said, BC was confirmed scum, while DRK said he got a PM from the mod that Nham was scum. What I did was ask DRK if he was being serious or not because his claim seemed rather outlandish and it was during the RVS stage. What Blood did was ask nacho for confirmation on him being scum and then speculated to what a day cop would do. My whole point in this is that, BC's post can seems to be much more of a case of rolefishing then what I did.

Where did he speculate? Care to elaborate?

BC's post definitely doesn't look like rolefishing as much as yours does. You are definitely grasping for straws.

My point was that BC was being hypocritical attacking me for fishing when he said something that seemed way more like rolefishing. I believe this post was me explaining this to someone.

Why wasn't Taranski lynched Day 1? My god.

you're really irking me. You're reminding me of why I was so suspicious of BC d1. Your case is basically his case. It was dumb and grasping back then and it is now.

Also, how would scum know that Nacho was a Day Cop?

because if BC was scum, and nacho was being serious when said that BC was confirmed scum. [which bc thought at the time] Then bc,scum would know whether or not nacho was right about his confirmed scum statement and would just assume that he was some kind of investigative role that got results during the day time.

I'm saying tha my original intention wasn't to get or hunt for reactions when I made that post. I was just openly speculation. What I am arguing is that I don't think that bringing them up were necessarily bad and may actually be pro-town because they generate discussion on a new topic and can be evaluated for information later. I'm not implying that I should be seen as pro-town because I brought up, but that the action in and of itself could be seen as protown.

Speculation at this point in the game is always scummy. It makes you look like you are scum feeling out for PRs, and at this point, it's definitely how I feel about you.

really? really. I'm feeling out for PR's cuz I brought up the possibility of there being a lyncher/traitor? Really. care to tell me how those things are even connected?

If he was scum, and Nacho said he was confirmed scum and wasn't joking, the only way that would make sense would be if Nacho was a daycop and investigated him.

And how would Nacho have been able to investigate him when this game didn't have a night start?

yet again. can you read? I said DAYCOP.

Your opinions and Nachomamma's opinions are coinciding far too convieniently for me.

i'm sorry?

Also, you place a vote on groinhammer without a reason. It makes it seem like you were purposely not on BC's lynch.

someone brought up something against groin and I thought it was good so i switched to him. Also someone said something that made BC not seem as scummy so I decided that groin was a better candidate for a vote. Not too suspicious of saber right now though. He/she has seemed fairly town.

Honestly. If anything people should be suspicious of me going inactive after being active at the beginning of the day. Which I feel bad about.

[Taranski]

Why, if you were so suspicious of BC, would it take for him to be shoving it down your throat for you to believe it?

yet again i ponder about whether yu actually read the thread. This was early in the day before I was suspicious of him. And it seemed like a joke which is why I didn't believe it at first. but wtf? why are you asking this question? Before you were saying i was gullible for not believing it and now you are asking why did it take BC shoving it down my throat to believe it?

First off, insults towards someone are against the rules of this site, you need to back off that. Please take a gander at Forum Rules and Guidelines by mith.

Second, if you didn't cut off my statement in the middle you would see that I DID explain how it was weak, but you cut off my statement in a way to make yourself look better. This is called misrepresentation and it IS a scumtell.

Saying that someone is making dumb comments is not an insult.
I just reread what you said. Nowhere did you explain why it was weak. Yet another dumb comment.

I don't get how you don't see that what you did was rolefishing. Scum have every reason in the world to rolefish, how come you don't understand this? Scum only know who's NOT town. They don't know who's a PR or not. You were asking DRK if he was joking or not which is the equivalent to asking him if he was a PR which = rolefishing.

I honestly don't know what to say to you about this. I fail to believe you actually think what you are saying. Why is asking if DRK was joking or not a problem. It in no way would have outed whether he was a PR at all beyond what he already stated. What was i supposed to do? Take his word for it when it seemed like a joke? Brush it off as a joke? What if he was being serious. jeez

He claimed he had an investigation. this = an investigative role + during the day = daycop. It doesn't take a genius for someone to come to this conclusion. Scum would have, and would have had no need to want to fish his role out of him when he basically already claimed it.

IT IS STRAWMANNING. You made yourself look scummy, not anyone else.

right.

Using the word 'confirmed' in any way to make a case on someone on this site is a big deal. Nacho said straight up that BC was CONFIRMED MAFIA, which means that there is irrefutable evidence that he is. Joking or not, confirmed is not a word that should be used unless it's true.

ok? dunno what you are getting at here. My point about him rolefishing still stands.

It's WIFOM because the scum DO NOT KNOW WHO THE PRs ARE. How would he absolutely know that Nacho was a Daycop? Unless scum have an investigative role of their own, they have no way to know whether he was being legit or not.

You are telling me, that if a cop claimed guilty on one of your scumpartners. You wouldn't automatically assume that he is what he says he is?

How does this answer to "how would scum know that Nacho was a Day Cop?" make any sense whatsoever?

I already explained this above.

BC was not scum (his flip proved that). So how did he THINK that Nacho was serious when BC's role PM stated that he was town? BC stated from the get go that he wasn't scum, not that anyone believed him and I definitely feel scum had something to do with that. So this whole answer that you just made holds ABSOLUTELY no ground.

Well duh. (wtf.) You obviously have trouble understanding the points that I am making here. I was presenting to scenarios based on him being scum or town. If he was scum he'd have no reason to rolefish, if he was town it wouldn't matter. This is what I was thinking at the time.

You still haven't answered how the scum would know that he was a Day Cop. You just completely skirted around the question.

above

So you switched to groin because someone else made a good case on him and you didn't make one of your own? You were all over BC Day 1, your unexpected switch is very scummy.

Oh cuz its soooo incredibly scummy to agree with a case someone made. I made the switch pretty early in the day. I was all over BC only because I was responding to the bullshit case he brought up.

But right now, Taranski is sticking out to me like a freaking cow in a haystack. With all of his contradictions and skirting around answers, I really don't like it.

Vote: Taranski

You have yet to point out any contradictions. Nor have I skirted around any questions that the answer wasn't already obvious to. Pretty annoyed that I have to defend myself against the same shit d2 that I had to in d1.

Hoopla made a good post. I was very willing to hammer BC at the end of d1. I dunno what that does to your theory. I'm interested in why you think starbuck is town.

[Taranski]

also, Starbuck, I'm sure you ignored some questions I brought up/statements I made. But I am too lazy to reread my post and find them.

[Taranski]

Sorry to hear that Starbuck - my condolences.

this =[

[Taranski]

unvote. vote: nham

forgot I was voting you. Who'd you replace again?

I'm really disappointed with the activity levels from Seraphim, Kise and nachomamma - I sincerely doubt all three of these players could be town.

find it a bit interesting that you called them out and not me

I would like to point out that every time I have successfully caught scum, one of the tells they gave off was vote-hopping.

I have had too many players in my games that have voted for me with reasons that they wanted to reveal later. Every one turned out to be scum. It seems to be the surest tell there is.

I find it slightly scummy that nham has been trying to push the legitimacy of his scumtells by making similar statements. It's like he's just randomly throwing on such a qualifying statement onto random points he makes just so that they can seem stronger, despite whether it's true and if he has actually caught scum like that.

[Taranski]

hoopla!

vote:kise
fos:nhammatime

[Taranski]

hahaha srsly?

so down for a quicklynch

[Taranski]

wtf iono. thats a stupid question hoopla

[Taranski]

well it almost has to be scum infected. only 4 people didn't vote for him. And I doubt the 2-3 scum wouldn't have been pushing that wagon along. I agree with the guy who said there was 2 on the wagon and 1 off of it. [was that you hoopla?]

specifically I would guess nham was one of the scum on the wagon. and maybe kise. [though I'm not too sure about kise. I'm only voting him cuz people I think are town are]

[Taranski]

It seemed like he was going for a QL because he kept telling me to vote and if i didn't vote immediately I was automatic scum.

are you voting kise yet?

I really don't wanna waste time answering your questions.

What you say about me slipping by quietly is true. I got inactive, and I still am.

Um how am i trying to dodge your question about the "shoving it down my throat thing". I am pretty sure I answered it directly

I didn't misrepresent you, I went back and read and still didn't see where you explained yourself.

No I still fail to see how it was rolefishing.

You are dodging my question about if your scumpartner was found guilty by a daycop.

Your last statement is false. I don't have to come up with my own case if I agree with someone elses. Why should I strive to try to pull new points out my ass, if someone has already made the argument that I agree with. It's not parroting, parroting is repeating what someone said, making it seem like they are your own thoughts and ideas. And parroting once or twice isn't a big deal, but continual parroting is. Which I did neither of.

His case was bullshit. i still don't understand it. What it seemed to me was scum looking for a target to pin something on. Maybe this is just a disagreement of viewpoints. But usually when someone makes a case against me, I can understand where theyre coming from. However, in this case with you and BC I can't at all. Which bugs me. Only reason I am not voting you is because people that I think are town, think you are town.[basically just hoopla]

I do think the BC wagon was scumdriven, simply because it was an easy wagon to push. And because of the analysis someone made earlier about it.

vote kise so it is not a no lynch.

[Taranski]

It took him shoving it down my throat because I thought it was a joke at first.

fair enough about kise. To be honest, I am simply just following Hoopla, because i think she/he is town AND smart, so I have no problem with proxying.

I disagree about parroting.

[Taranski]

uh wtf
srsly?

my guess is that its mylo/lylo

vengeful mafia is really whack, like whats the point, very counter productive

awwwwwwww now i have to actually start trying to find scum and win this game

sighhh

[Taranski]

also, ideas on whether we should mass claim?

[Taranski]

i think imma still follow hoopla, lemme find the amazing post he/she made

[Taranski]

This is also in conjunction with nhammen's one-vote day, where he rode a second-post BloodCovenent vote through to lynch. Seems like a REALLY safe place to drop a vote, and not have to deal with much suspicion. I have good feelings about this.

I thought he was scummy. That is all. And it seems that a large portion of the town agreed with this.

My strong guess is that there is two scum on the wagon - I don't think scum would be so brazen to all jump on BloodCovenent by the end of the day. One of the best tells to go by is scum's collective conciousness - because scum play as a team, they are conciously trying to muddle links between them. All voting one player in a short amount of time is an obvious link they want to avoid.

I strongly believe there were two scum on BC, because he was scummy/anti-town enough for scum to not come under any pressure for their votes. This is one subtle difference between alignments, somewhere you can usually spot mistakes. Because scum are fabricating cases, they're more inclined to make votes they won't get called on, or challenged for.

So lets look at the Day 1 lynch:

DeathRowKitty (2): Seraphim,

BloodCovenent

BloodCovenent

(7): nhammen, DeathRowKitty, Dragonfly13, saberwolf, Nachomamma8, Kise,

fhqwgads

groinhammer (1): Taranski

Not Voting (2): OhGodMyLife, Starbuck

Most suspect on the BC lynch is Kise and nhammen. Both featured day 1 games with just ONE vote overall - both on BC. It's certainly possible both aren't scum, but from this point alone, I'd say it's quite likely one is. I want to do more analysis of Dragonfly, saberwolf and nachomamma - but my gut says out of these three it's Dragonfly.

Now, who is likeliest to be scum OFF the BC wagon. I believe Starbuck is town, so it's a toss-up between Seraphim and Taranski. An interesting point that incriminates Seraphim is this count;

Vote Count #10:

DeathRowKitty (4):

canadianbovine

, Seraphim,

BloodCovenent, fhqwhgads

BloodCovenent (6): nhammen, DeathRowKitty, Dragonfly13, saberwolf, Nachomamma8, Kise
Seraphim (1): MightyFireball
groinhammer (1): Taranski

Not Voting (0)

For the sake of this point, I'm assuming this from my own confirmed town perspective, and fail to see how 4 townies could possibly be on DeathRowKitty. That was such a bad wagon, it's not funny.

I'm really disappointed with the activity levels from Seraphim, Kise and nachomamma - I sincerely doubt all three of these players could be town.

My preference for lynch is Kise, mainly because lynching from the BC wagon will be the most informative choice today. If Kise flips scum, it could be an interesting point toward DeathRowKitty based on how the wagons eventuated yesterday. Here is a flashback to the votecount 2 pages before lynch;

Vote Count #9:

DeathRowKitty (4):

OhGodMyLife

, Seraphim,

BloodCovenent

,

fhqwhgads

BloodCovenent

(5): nhammen, DeathRowKitty, Dragonfly13, saberwolf, Nachomamma8
Seraphim (1): Starbuck
groinhammer (1): Taranski

Not Voting (1): Kise

Nachomamma had only just placed his vote on BC, and Kise jumped on shortly after to take BC two votes ahead of Deathrowkitty. The fact there is so much town on Deathrowkitty's wagon makes me believe, either Seraphim or Deathrowkitty himself must be scum.

Then, I also consider Kise's D1 play the most suspicious of all the one-vote players, mainly because it took him 12 pages to actually use his vote, which is nowhere near his town meta.

Vote: Kise

I feel like I'm playing this game by myself. But I think I have enough information to accurately guess the alignments of most players. Over the next couple of post I'll articulate reasons why, but I feel I should have all my thoughts out there to be displayed.

Probable Town

Starbuck, Taranski, Dragonfly13

Probable Scum

Kise, Seraphim, Nachomamma, saberwolf

Unsure

DeathRowKitty, nhammen

Additional notes:

- If Seraphim isn't scum, then DeathRowKitty is. However, it's possible they both are together.
- I'm happy with Dragonfly's recent posts, and saberwolf's feeble attack on Dragonfly improves my opinion on him.
- Although we have a lot of lurkers here, Nachomamma is the definition of active lurking. I think it's a good chance he's one of the scum on BC's wagon.
- Kise seems a lot more VI'ish recently, but is still scummy enough to lynched, and will give a lot more information to the make-up of the alignments on BC's wagon.
- I like DeathRowKitty's early play, but he is also experienced enough to employ this as a scum tactic to hide behind. After he stopped coming under suspicion he has done very little.
- Nhammen could go either way, but I'm starting to lean town now, by default of having 5 players I deem more scummier than he.

[Taranski]

STILL POUNDING THE KEG

DeathRowKitty
Dragonfly13
Nachomamma8
Seraphim
Taranski

groinhammer

saberwolf (replaced D1)

PTFO'd

BloodCovenent, Vanilla Townie, lynched D1
fhqwhgads, Doctor, killed N1
Kise, Vengeful Mafia, lynched D2
nhammen, Cop, killed during D2 twilight

MightyFireball

Starbuck, Vanilla Townie, killed N2

canadianbovine

(replaced D1)

OhGodMyLife

, Vanilla Townie, killed N2

Ok, sorry for the multiple posts.

I suggest noone prematurely vote because there is the chance that if town votes town, the remaining mafia can all just pile up votes on the person who was voted and it would result in quick mislynch. This is basic lylo/mylo knowledge so i'm just making sure you guys understand this.

I will most likely be focusing my efforts on finding scum by using these 3 hoopla posts as a guide.

[Taranski]

i don't see a point in posting top 3 suspects.

i want everyone to post/check in

[Taranski]

more posts please

[Taranski]

unhelpful

vote:saber

[Taranski]

unvote

wasn't a serious vote.

wanted to see what happened if i voted. was watching the thread in case of scum quicklynching.

i mean yes ive been inactive. ive admitted this on my of occasion. You can't deny hooplas analysis being really good. Pretty sure all her reads thus far was correct.

[Taranski]

ugh.

[Taranski]

why do you think there were only 2 mafia and not 3

[Taranski]

maybe the kill was the result of a town pr. why would that have an effect on how many mafias there would be?

[Taranski]

also yu dont think an sk would shoot n1?

[Taranski]

DRK YES. i assumed yu were vig. which threw me off so hard when yu were like vig claim.

[Taranski]

interesting.

eager to see your thoughts dram

[Taranski]

yur NL thing is smart. I was thinking about the same thing and was intending on bringing it up. NL is not nearly as bad a play when there is an even number for players especially during lylo.

however because of there being a vengeful mafia, and 2 kills last nigh esp not knowing whether we can trust DRK... i'd much rather not NL since their maybe ways for more than one kill to happen tonight which could potentially lose the game for us.

[Taranski]

the chance of D greatly out weights the chances of any other scenario except C.
there is almost certainly not 1 scum left. That would call for an incredibly weak scum team.

dunno im too paranoid to take the NL route.

[Taranski]

here.
will do a catch up spoon

[Taranski]

WELP. there goes my wishes of getting NKed

I keep prolong the inevitable, I have to tackle this game eventually

sigh

[Taranski]

you come off as a little fake

[Taranski]

um...

theres a vote during lylo? interesting to say the least.

[Taranski]

wait, scum is allowed to daytalk?

well then one of them have to be scum or scum is trolling.

good post by sable, its kind of giving me some initiative to play. Gonna look back and see if I trust you, and see if your thoughts line up with Hoopla's. Because I still think just following her is the way to go.

[Taranski]

vanilla

[Taranski]

I think lynching nacho would be a safe bet. Hoopla disagreed about dragonfly being scum, she had him on her probable town list. hold on got to do a full reread.

we have 8 dayysss

[Taranski]

eh unvote, wanna think things through a bit

[Taranski]

eh, im starting to have that big post = town mentality. Even tho i know how it may cause me to be led astray but w/e. So I am inclined to think Sable is town and that nacho is the play.

Nacho, you were trying to deflect the lynch to dragonfly. Why? Do you think he is scum? What about Sable, what is your read on him?

[Taranski]

never actually rethought/read anything. I just can't get into the mood too. Something to do with playing on this site. Honestly, I think if you guys were to start pushing my lynch, I'd be more active, cuz I'm just lazy until I feel like me lurking/being lazy will lose us the game.

And it was just a commentary on me as a player more then this game. I was leaning to believe your arguments because you spent the time to look over this game which is seemingly protown, but I realize thinking this way can be backwards because scum can easily do what you are doing.

Most of your argument is concerning connections or the lack of which is good speculation but sometimes doesn't work. But right now I think it's enough to lynch Nacho for. I don't get your town read on dramonic either.

mehhhhh