Mini 892 - Mayor Mafia (GAME OVER)

[Col.Cathart]

We're obviously electing Serial. Not much discussion needed.

We are?

Seconded.

[Col.Cathart]

So it's Cruciare actually! This game is going to be even better than I thought! ;]

Also, looks like I got a kickass sunglasses (at least I think those are sunglasses), so I'm not complaining

[Col.Cathart]

I say, you're wrong. Surprising, isn't it? ;]

[Col.Cathart]

vote: Reckoner

I don't trust anyone who supports himself for the mayor.

support: Hoopla

I think, with her plans and logic, she's a good candidate.

[Col.Cathart]

I am going to say this once, and then I will probably say it a few more times after someone calls me scummy for it, but there is no pro-town reason to not try and win the Mayoral election. The members of the town only have one way to guarentee that the mayor will be used in a pro-town fashion, and that is by getting themselves elected.

Anyone deliberately not wanting the position is avoiding the spotlight and the scrutiny it brings or attacking someone for campaigning for themselves will get the stink eye from me.

Ok...

Gotta say, I haven't thought of it this way, and it's a good point, so I'm willing to revise my statement, and I'm not going to attack anyone for it.

unvote

But that's just the one side of the problem IMO. Double voter is a VERY juicy role for a scum, and I don't think, they would pass up the opportunity just like that. Someone who starts a major election campaign, and is quickly supported by a bunch of other people looks weird to me. Your play so far is obvtown, so I don't think it's the case here, but it's certainly a thing to watch in a nearest future.

[Col.Cathart]

Cathart, who are you most suspicious of right now?

Well, I did a re-read just seconds ago, and (oh irony!)

vote: Reckoner

I shouldn't unvote him in the first place. I did it, because my first vote was based on his self-election, but now as I read everyone, he's got the highest count on bullshit meter from all players here. So far none of his post were helpful to town in any way. True, the same can be said about all those who are not posting at all, but the difference is, HE IS posting, and yet nothing came from it so far.

Apart from him, Kyle's post when he said he'll probably go with majority rubbed me the wrong way, but it might be a newbie mistake so I'm not going to pursue him yet.

MM made similar mistake to me in taking only negative look at the self-election case. His last post is bullshit though. Neutral for now.

[Col.Cathart]

I don't see why it's page four and I'm getting flak for not being helpful.

Exactly because of posts like this. Even though we were at page 4 at the time, everyone already meant business and started serious discussion. You're still acting, like we are in RVS. We don't even know any opinion from you, other that you like bigger wagons.

Hoopla's idea of lynching the Mayor on D1: Am I missing something? According to the rules:

The mayor decides who will succeed him

how are we supposed to choose someone more obvtown on the next day, when it's the Mayor who decides his successor?

[Col.Cathart]

Col - I think the advantage is that the mayor will be picked of someone with a known alginment. If we mayor/lynch town, then a townie will decide who the mayor will be for D2.

Ok, I get it now... Though I still don't see this as a good idea. Even if the townie decides who will be the Mayor for D2, there's still a chance he'll actually pick scum as a successor. Also, if we'll lynch/elect scum on D1 - massive WIFOM ahoy.

[Col.Cathart]

Oh... Ok, looks like we agree on this point then...

[Col.Cathart]

Eh? What kind of argument is this? I was wrong on my scum reads many times, but I had a pretty decent amount of correct reads as well. In Commie Mafia, Charter was wrong on several reads (Coco/Raskol, me, Serial) but he was also correct with Peabody.

This is not an argument. This is bullshit.

Actually most of your posts are bullshit.

unvote

vote: MonkeyMan

I still have a scum read on Reckoner, but now he takes the 2nd spot.

In other news:

unsupport

support: Socrates

Socrates seems obvtown to me, and uses very good logic all around. Hoopla is a good player as well but with her problems with Internet, I cannot really get a good read on her.

[Col.Cathart]

I'll remain skeptic to Monkey's claim for now. Even if not counterclaimed, this is one of the easiest roles to claim. Also, since we are still far from choosing the mayor, his claim came prematurely which is never a good sign (although I'm one of the examples, that premature claim does not mean fake right off the bat, so this argument isn't condemning him).

And yet even more evidence to make me worried about a possible nhammen/reck scum team...

...how is that evidence of a me/nham scumteam, exactly?

Cause you were buddying with him in the beginning and buddying with him now.

I would say, it's only point against Reck (yet another...). IMO scum buddying with townie is way more effective for scum, because it doesn't give an obvious trail to his partner AND gives a chance for a mislynch on another day. Also, I don't think Nhammen is scummy. Ok, his latest reaction to MM's claim was super sketchy, and I'm interested in hearing his answer to Charter, but he still looks Pro-Town in my books.

Bottom line:
Nhammen - doesn't look like a scum to me, yet.
Reckoner - oh hell, yes. I'm pretty sure either him or MM is a scum (possibly both, but due to MM's posts quoted above I think 'only one of them' option is more probable).

[Col.Cathart]

Not much time now (new job, cannot slack anymore ), so more from me later today, but just to quickly answer this question:

Also, is Col Cath going against his town meta? I vaugely remember him being an unvote to power role claims guy..

Really? None of that happened in Commie Mafia (I was claiming there, and I was never voting myself ) or in any other game with you (or in any game at all for that matter), so you probably confused me with someone else. Here's an example:

viewtopic.php?p=1763260#1763260

Read Porkens's claim and post #492. Yeah I was still a newbie, but I'm still pretty much like that.

[Col.Cathart]

As far as the claim, I thought I was at level 1 and I don't believe in letting scum have the chance to lynch me before having the chance to claim...

Bullshit.

Either you're lying, or you didn't read the rules.

The day wouldn't end, even after reaching the majority of players, before the Mayor will be chosen. We're still far from doing it, so you would have plenty of time to defend yourself even after hitting L-0.

I'm happy with my vote.

Cathart - This guy is playing fishy and staying under radar. Could be scum. *Disclaimer: GUT IN EMPLOYMENT*

Ok, gut is gut, I understand. Can you expand your point about my 'fishy play' and 'staying under the radar'? Because I don't think, I'm doing that, so I want to know, why are you accusing me of it.

[Col.Cathart]

Game specific rules
22. This game contains the special role of mayor.

23. At the beginning of the game, the players decide who gets this role. This decission works as a normal lynching decission, except that votes should read Support: Player Name and Unsupport: Player Name.

Day 1 can't end through a lynch before a mayor has been chosen.

If, at the end of the day, no player has received the support of the majority of players, the player with the most support will become mayor. If there is a tie, the first player to have reached the highest amount of support will become mayor. If noone has received any support, a random player will become mayor.

[Col.Cathart]

Prod received.

Combined forces of new job and university pretty much drained 99% of my time and strength to write and contribute here. I'll try to actually be useful the first moment I'll have some free time and energy to play this game, which should be tomorrow (hopefully).

I only managed to skim this thread once during those 2 days, but I'm still surprised, that anyone actually believes in Monkey's claim, especially after his very bad vote on DDD.

Also Reckoner is so much buddying with nhammen, it makes me sick.

So yeah, two of my main suspect are still on the list. I'll try to look at everything more closely tomorrow.

[Col.Cathart]

Also, I REALLY have a problem with Hoopla's strategy. The day 1 lynch will most likely either be scum, or a player that has reads the rest of the town does not trust. Is this who we want to entrust the mayoral choice to? I think not.

Amen, brother. I agree with this in 100%

Some thoughts about players:



Charter - Well, I met town Charter, and scum Charter as well. Although both are similar, this one looks more like a town Charter. Hoopla's latest vote is even more confusing, as she should know this already.

DDD - Eh... I don't know, really. I cannot get any good read on him. Neutral for now.

Hoopla - I'm really confused. She's behaving completely different, than I thought. Her attack on Charter is ridiculous, and so is 'I never catched scum on D1, and my reads on D1 are awful, so why even try?' line of thinking. Not my preferable wagon, but if it'll happen, I'll have no problems with joining it.

Kyle - Follows too much, does almost nothing, his opinions seems kinda... Forced? I don't know how to name it. Anyway, possible scum. Wagon on him wouldn't be that bad.

MIC - Tough stuff... This looks like and '100x less serious Cruciare's alt (and normal Cruciare has a quite 'original' approach anyway...), so taking away all the weird stuff, I have a similar view as on Pro-town Cruciare from my previous game with him.

Monkey Man - Good Lord! I'm extremely surprised anyone believes his claim at all. He makes a slip after slip, and follows the votes to create very lame wagons (vide --> vote on DDD). Scum, scum, scum. Everyone who believes his claim should reconsider. Seriously.

Nhammen - His second to last post definitely puts him in my 'pro-town' list for now.

Kerrigan - as with DDD - I can't get a proper read on him.

Reckoner - Nothing good from him + buddying = scum.

Serial Clergyman - This is my 3rd game with him, I know his alignment from Commie mafia, but I still cannot really decipher his behavior patterns. Looks town though...

Socrates - The most pro-town guy around. Simple as that.

Bottom Line:

Monkey and Reck - obv scum.

Kyle and Hoopla - prob scum

DDD, Kerrigan - I have no friggin idea.

Town - the rest.

I still have some last shreds of hope, that people will go back to voting Monkey, but if that won't happen, I'll have to probably change my vote anyway to some of my other suspects.

[Col.Cathart]

Also, if Monkey is scum, who are his partners?

That's an awful question, IMO. Hunt scummy acting players, and then look for connections if they were scum, not otherwise. This kind of question adds another layer of confusion, WIFOMiness (if he's scum, his buddies are trying to save, or bus him? etc.), and in general is making things complicated, when they were rather simple before.

Nothing changed from my last post... If not Monkey, I will be just as happy with Reckoner lynch, and moderately satisfied with Hoopa/Kyle lynch.

[Col.Cathart]

I also thoroughly approve of asking about partners.

Why, if I may ask? I don't see the benefits of trying to pair someone with unknown alignment with someone else with just as unknown alignment.

[Col.Cathart]

Work, work, work, Anti-Prod, work, work, work.

I'll be back evening, to post something more.

[Col.Cathart]

Col. Cathart, I am running out of new perspectives on this. It seems the reason you are not on the kyle wagon is because you cannot fathom Monkey being town.

Because I cannot. I said already, if MM lynch will be impossible, I'll vote for someone from other my other suspect (Reck, Kyle, Hoopla), but as long, as there's still a chance to lynch Monkey, I'll stick with this vote. I don't remember any other player who would tilt my scumdar so much in any game on this site so far. Seriously.

[Col.Cathart]

If you say the cop is only as good as a vanilla townie, then the roleblocker is only as good as a goon.

No, not really. Roleblocker IS making his role perfectly in this case (stopping the town aligned power role), while cop not. And that's the point.

Anyway, I think most of us are agreeing, that Monkey should be lynched at some point (at least, it looks like it from several players behavior). The question is - now or later? I tried to analyze pros and cons of both situations... And I still think, we should lynch Monkey today.

In case, we'll lynch him today:

- Boom or Bust. Fakeclaiming scum or a Cop (IMO first option is still more likely)
- Most importantly, we have the answer we wanted for 'was his claim real?' question.

In case we'll lynch him, let's say, tomorrow:

- We'll lynch someone else today. This is questionable, as we may hit/mislynch just as well as Monkey, but I still think there's no other person with as good chance of being scum as Monkey, except maybe Reck.

In my opinion, Monkey is really the last possible target for NK, because of his WIFOM and confusion potential alone. So I wont consider this possibility. Feel free to do include it in your own analyze though. Now:

- Monkey reveals his result tomorrow. Someone blocked him. What now? Did he lied about it? Or did someone really blocked him? At this point, probably the town will lynch him anyway, and we'll be at the same point, as we would be if we would lynch Monkey on D1, but with one more hit/mislynch and one more NK.

OR

- Monkey reveals his result tomorrow. He investigated someone who died tonight. Yeah right, town will lynch him anyway, and we'll be at the same point, as we would be if we would lynch Monkey on D1, but with one more hit/mislynch and one more NK.

OR

- Monkey reveals his result tomorrow. He has an innocent report. The town will probably lynch him anyway. If Monkey fakeclaimed - WIFOM ensues. If not - confirmed townie grabs the NK. Awful situation both ways.

OR

- Monkey reveals his result tomorrow. He has a guilty report. The town will probably lynch him anyway. If he fakeclaimed - WIFOM ensues. If not - Yay, we got one. This is slightly better option that other three, but there's too many 'if' (IF Monkey is a cop, and IF he'll have a guilty result) for me to go with this option.

tl;dr version

: Instead of going with very complicated and confusing way which can give us huge amount of questions, and almost no answers, I'd rather take simpler way, which give us one definite YES/NO answer to Monkey's claim.

[Col.Cathart]

Antiprod. I'll post something, after I'll be back from work. Luckily, it looks like I'll have some more time than 'hour a day' since weekend, so maybe I'll finally pick up some activity.

[Col.Cathart]

Monkey:

Not true, not true and not true. I've defended myself very appropriately, it's just that most of the attacks against me have been entirely baseless.

a) Eh? First, you were using 'I was at L-1' defense. I told you, it meant nothing, as we were far from choosing the mayor. Then you said, there wasn't anything like that in the rules, and you were quickly proven wrong. Then you pulled out 'I don't care, I was at L-1 anyway.'

this is a bullshit stance. You claim, when you're dangerously close to lynch. I understand normal L-1, or even L-2 in situation when most of the town thinks, you're scum (like in my case in Commie Mafia), but we were light years off the mayor selection, so you had PLENTY of time to defend yourself, instead of claiming.

b) The shortest version of our discussion:

MM: I was at L-1
CC: So? You were far from lynch.
MM: Not true!
CC: True (*proves*)
MM: I don't care. I was at L-1!

Really awful explanation, and sort of a backtrack here. I still don't like it at all, and I still think you're scum.

Hoopla:

Well, maybe Socrates is, but I'm not getting it (probably, because I'm not a native English speaker, and I probably lost something in translation), so it would be nice to explain, as I see a blatant lie here so far...

[Col.Cathart]

If MM will flip scum, then Kerrigan is very likely to be his partner. Bus at first, and then hop on the alternate wagon when the buddy is in serious lynch danger.

Monkeyman needs to die by the end of this page

QFT.

[Col.Cathart]

Reck is really obvscum.

This. I suspected him on D1, Monkey's scum flip (he was trying to derail that lynch) and nhammen's town flip (scum buddying) is only making things even more clear for me.

vote: Reckoner

[Col.Cathart]

I wont be voting RECK until he checks in in the thread.

Col. Cathart, you seem to have had previous experience with MIC. How good a scum player would you say he is?

I never played a game with him, when he was a scum. When he was town, he acted pretty similar with his play here, but now he is even more crazy (joke alt probably). I would say, if he could hide his scuminess in his usual behavior, so the town would ignore it - he would be a damn good scum. But right now, I don't really know.

[Col.Cathart]

Mmm... How does this post make you feel about MIC?

Socrates, I'm starting to think you could be Hoopla and Nhammen's third scumbuddy.

I'll admit that I can't manufacture scum motivation for Hoopla's 375, but there's a point where cases are so bad it can't really be a serious attempt at scumhunting (otherwise

anything

can be passed off as scumhunting). It's a pathetic attempt at

looking

like she's trying to scumhunt IMO. Again, you're trying to justify a dangerous line a thinking that assumes everyone plays perfectly, when they really don't. Practically, I'm willing to bet that your line of thinking will be wrong more times than right. Hoopla is more scummy than Kyle IMO, Kyle just wants Monkey lynched whilst Hoopla has been all over the place.

You know if you really wanted the day to end that badly I'm sure everyone on the Hoopla wagon would've moved to Kyle, albeit reluctantly in my case.

Actually, it's a town-tell to me. I mean, he said it before seeing Monkey flip, and looked genuinely annoyed, that you just hammered someone who he thought was town. I doubt, scum would come up with a post like that, especially when they already knew the result of the Monkey flip. Of course, that could've been intentional, but as I said, I doubt it ATM.

Mod: I will be V/LA from Wednesday 23 to Monday 28, due to Christmas.

[Col.Cathart]

Hey there! I'm back from my Christmas holidays!

Gotta say, I was expecting the get back into the middle of D2 discussion, so imagine my surprise, when I came back in the middle of the night phase. Very weird hammer, way too quick. I was going to question Kyle and Reck for it today, but Reck died, and it seems, Kyle's eagerness to claim takes away all my doubt. The only way his claim could be true, would be if he thought Hoopla is a simple Goon, or other scum who didn't submit any action. But that kind of conclusion just sounds unlikely to me (even more, as I was a Tracker myself in I Love You Mafia, and learned that no action usually equals vanilla). So yeah, I think Kyle lies here.

I wasn't really the fan of a massclaim today, but I guess since it already gave us some benefits, I won't complain

[Col.Cathart]

Vanilla as well.

That's everyone? Awesome.

vote: Kyle

[Col.Cathart]

I'm still trying to make sense of Kyle's claim. Why as scum would he claim to have tracked MIC to Kerrigan when Kerrigan is clearly alive and well? So it's not as he's pinnned a kill on her and it's not like such a claim would help flush a power role with a mass claim already happening. Doesn't make any sense.

My theory: Kyle thought about making MIC looks like a scum/second source of kills, by saying MIC targeted Kerrigan, and Reck died instead as a Bodyguard, because he targeted Kerrigan as well.

Actually, that's the only thing I could come up with, as any other theory didn't have any sense in it.

And Kerrigan along with the bodyguard we do apparently have an unclaimed killing role, so that's at least two roles that could be blocked.

Actually... After this massclaim, I think that other killing role is more likely to be Serial Killer. He's against mafia, so they could have interest in blocking him (though, in this situation he only helps them so far, as he didn't hit any scum yet), and he won't claim it openly for obvious reasons. At this point, if we would have a Vig on the board, I don't think he would want to stay hidden at this point, so much to fakeclaim vanilla.

[Col.Cathart]

vote: Moai Interceptor Cannons

Wow, and to think that I thought your reactions were really honest. Almost fooled me.

Ok, for me it's pretty obvious. If you have some questions for me, Kerrigan - I'm here to answer.

[Col.Cathart]

S

[Col.Cathart]

T

[Col.Cathart]

O

(assuming, I can pick vowels)

[Col.Cathart]

When you're bored during some stupid class in High School or on some lame course on University, you can create millions of different variants

R

[Col.Cathart]

Ok, so my Finals week is coming closer, and I have to spend more time with the books. I'll try to finish my case today, but tomorrow is more likely at this point.

[Col.Cathart]

Post in progress. Long one, so it may take some time.

[Col.Cathart]

Okay, About MIC:

He starts the game with couple of funny pictures. When it turned out, he's an alt (probably joke one as well) of Cruciare, I passed it off, as something completely normal for him.

The problem with his early play is somewhere else though. First of all his first votes are either random via dice-rolling (not a good thing) and voting without explanations (bad thing). Then, we must consider who he voted, and when (with ignoring random-Hoopla vote).

The first vote is for Monkey. Ok, either good intuition, or early bus. Seems fine tho- Hey, wait a minute...

I change my mind.

Unvote, Vote: SaintKerrigan

. Also, what's all this Hoopla support about?

Ok, so at first he joins the scum wagon, and then jumps off it. Reason?

The case on Monkey is being epicly overinflated IMO.

Haha, 'town points' - that's a good one Charter. Serial, your reason especially is a bit pathetic for someone of your apparent calibre: bemusement = town, concern = scum? What?

Kerrigan was always the better vote than Monkey in my eyes. It's just that Monkey had a bigger wagon at the time, but his reaction was inconclusive. Also, Charter, we're only on page four. Calm down a little.

First looks says 'okay, seems good'. But there was something not right in here, and after a little backtrack, I know what.

In other news, MonkeyMan, Cathart and Kerrigan (maybe Hoopla too) are scum.

Unvote, Vote: MonkeyMan576.

Wagon go!

Ok, So Monkey is scum, or you were on his wagon to see his reactions, which are 'inconclusive'? Also, does inconclusive really mean, someone you pegged as a scum so early is enough to back off your vote to someone with little to no heat at all, or should I say, from scum to town? Also, look at the bolted statement of his post about Monkey. So the case on MM is overinflated. That's the only case on Monkey ever made at that point. So, Monkey was scum... For what, if not that 'overinflated case'?

Ok, we have an answer for that in his ISO 17 (too big post to quote all of it). At least for me, inconclusive means null. And something scummy + null = something scummy. And so, I still don't understand, why did you change your vote from wagoned scum suspect to not wagoned scum suspect, especially if no one else followed you with this point. Looking at MM's and Kerrigan's alignment (assuming we both agree, he's obvtown), the only conclusion I can make of it is - 'protect your scum buddy'.

It even seems logical from my point of view. Kyle was for MM lynch, while you was defending him. Scum wagoned + 2 of his buddies with different opinions for maximum variety to not get connected.

--------------------

ISO 19 is pretty important post, so let's look closely at it:

Article 1: Defense of Monkey. Bad enough, seeing MM's alignment.

Article 2:

If I recall correctly one of the people who reviewed this setup absolutely hates cops.

Still, I don't think Monkey's scum

(yes read this sentence again if you want)

I read it again, and again, and still can't believe I didn't point out it at the time, or even later, after the massclaim, when no one else claimed cop. You obviously mean Vi, as he was the reviewer of this game, and he was in game with us both, when he said he hates the cops. So you have a clear reason to suspect, there's no cop in this game. And yet, you still thought this claim was true... Again, seeing MM's final alignment, this looks really bad.

Article 3: I really hate this constant rambling about page 4 (he uses it far too much in his previous posts). Apart from that, nothing really town or scum for random observer.

Article 4: Again not much to point out here. All point here are debatable, and we don't have that much time to debate all over something really minor now.

Article 5: Two scum noted as 'town

~ish

' (not burning the bridge for possible bus on Kyle in the future?) and 'leaning town' (on player who played outrageous, and made a [IMO] claim hard to believe). Yeah, you know my point about it.

Article 6: Town and unconvincing. His reasonings seems genuine, but as he's proposing Reck, I have this feeling, he tried to establish him as a Mayor to make a point 'he's unconvincing, so let's not vote someone, who he think is scum'. Point and the statement doesn't make any sense? Yeah, unless you'll see, who Reck tried to lynch really hard - Kyle.

Article 7: Still trying to convince people, Monkey is not scum.

Article 8: I laughed. Kudos for you

-------------------

Later we have some backing off the townish statement on Kyle, while answering nhammen, yet stating he doesn't understand the hate on him (ISO 20), then again he seems to go into 'oh what the hell, bussing is not a bad idea, by giving minuses on both Kyle and Monkey (ISO 21).

And then Hoopla came to play, and MIC had a new distraction source from Monkey (also, I saw it in the avatar in my other game, so I assume it's a meme of some kind, but I still don't get the origin of it in ISO 23). He tried to convince everyone to join the wagon, making some additional jokes in the meantime.

-------------------

As I said before, I almost got fooled with his 'genuinely looking' reaction after Soc's hammer, but I guess in this case, since he knew MM will flip Scum, he had to try hard to look really sure with his own scum-choices to have some form of defense for trying to kill MM wagon.

-------------------

He missed entire D2 due to Christmas. Pretty normal.

-------------------

Kyle slipped, MIC voted. Not a scumtell, since I did the same. He managed to kill his main lynch supporter (Charter) but attracting Danny to kill him via his twilight D3 comment (it might have been done accidentally though)

------------------------------------

Turned out pretty wall of textish. so Here you have tl;dr version of his scumtells:

- Saying that Monkey is scum, following the wagon, then jumping off it, and finally trying to derail it HARD. REALLY

HARD

.

- Add to this some inconsistencies with his later explanations why he dropped MM case.

- He had reasons to not believe MM's claim, yet he opted to ignore it, and continue 'MM is not scum' mantra.

- Trying hard to wagon town member (another distraction from Monkey)

Pretty much everything comes concludes in point 1, but I think it's good enough.

[Col.Cathart]

Oh, and also -

E

[Col.Cathart]

Col. Cathart

- Early on finds both Kyle99 and MonkeyMan576 neutral.

Opinions can change during the game, and as long as someone doesn't contradicts himself badly with his earlier statements, there's nothing wrong with it.

- Argues in his vote for MM that most of his posts are bullshit, when earlier he stated that he was a neutral read, which indicates that he didn't find most of his posts bullshit.

Not exactly. He was neutral for his attitude with self-nominating, and I would be stupid to call him scummy for it, as I did the exact same thing. After short discussion with Socrates, I modified my point of view.

He began posting bullshit (so the moment, when I started to suspect him), was after he claimed, especially the piece where he was trying to justify his early claim with rules, and he was evidently false. It went downhill from there. That's why I was trying to lynch him hard.

As I said, there's nothing wrong with changing opinions during the course of the game, or else we should be sticking with our early D1 cases, and Ignore everything that happened later.

- Says he couldn't see both MM and xReck to be scum, yet lists both of them as scum in a reads list.

Ok, now I don't understand, where you're gunning at. I thought MM was scummy. I thought Reck was scummy. I doubted the possibility of them being scumpartners at the time, due to their interactions (though, this point also changed, when Reck started his own campaign for [oh irony!] Kyle wagon during late D1. At that point I thought, they actually might be partners after all, but I forgot to mention it. Gotta say, if this is going to be one of the factors, why town lost, I'm going to be very angry at myself), BUT if we looks at them separately I still saw scum in them both, so when I was analyzing every player individually, both of them got my scum verdict, even if I doubted at the time, they are team. I was pretty sure one of them MUST be scum (and look - I was right).

- Kyle's fakeclaim as tracker had MIC targeting me. Could be evidence that MIC is protown, and thus meaning Cathart is scum.

Cannot really say anything to my defense here, as I don't have anything to do with it. All I can say, is that is really WIFOMy point, and I advise to really think about it, before deciding 'this mus be it!' (obviously, because I know my role, and I know it's a bad conclusion).

- Cathart has lurked hard for most of this game.

I certainly wouldn't say that. True, I wasn't the most active person in this thread (not even close), but I don't think I was lurking. Also, pretty much of my absences were caused by Finals/work stuff, but I don't expect you to believe me.

The second-to-last tell in Cathart's column is very strong to me. Also, the more I've looked at MIC, the more town he's seemed to me, despite the fact that he avoided the Monkey wagon for most of the game.

As I said, this is classic WIFOM. If Kyle did it on purpose (and I suspect he did), then really props for him for being bold enough play like that.

[Col.Cathart]

Ok, I'm guessing:

GHZXXFM

Oh, come on, you gotta be kidding me.

A

[Col.Cathart]

P

[Col.Cathart]

Ok, that was a hammer...

Kyle, for Christ sake, just fakeclaim vanilla next time, please. Fakeclaiming power roles works rarely at all, especially when It wasn't needed to.

GJ town, you won this one, Thanks MSH for modding this. Awesome game

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Oh, and also...

I

[Col.Cathart]

Good job, Cathart. If not for the fact that you left alive the person who Kyle "tracked" to me I probably would've voted MIC. You played well in this one, despite the lurking.

Well, I seriously thought, we have a Serial Killer on the board, so I took priority in taking him down. You couldn't be one, Charter's behavior in the twilight of D3 eliminated him as well, and MIC wouldn't kill Reckoner, I'm sure of it. That left DDD. In retrospect, I should have probably off you instead of Danny, since he had a pretty strong pro-town stance on me.

[Col.Cathart]

Was it you guys that tried to kill me off N2 and xReck protected me?

Nope. We went for Socrates, as we were pretty sure, if there was a Doc around, he'll most likely target you as obv town player.

When I died I was sure one of Hoopla or DDD was scum, because I didn't know why I was killed, then I learnt DDD was a vig and bingo it made sense

Wrong again. We killed you. You were barking the wrong tree at the time, but I feared, you could hit the right track pretty soon, and your logic was in general dangerous for us, so I opted for taking you down early.

L

[Col.Cathart]

I totally screwed up with that crappy claim, sorry Col and Monkey

No worries. Live and learn.

[Col.Cathart]

Red my post 829, Serial.