Mini 892 - Mayor Mafia (GAME OVER)

[kyle99]

Why am I the fat old guy?

Haha sorry. My guy is hidden from view...

[kyle99]

This is only my first non-newbie game, so I don't really know anything about anyone, so I guess I'll probably just go with majority.

[kyle99]

I'll

support: Hoopla

because I'm not really sure who would be the best mayor, having this been my first non-newbie game. I'm still deciding about the vote though.

[kyle99]

Ok, I'll try to be more decisive

Apart from him, Kyle's post when he said he'll probably go with majority rubbed me the wrong way, but it might be a newbie mistake so I'm not going to pursue him yet.[/qoute]
Sorry that rubbed you the wrong way. I didn't mean that I would try to go with a majority on lynch votes, just go with a majority on mayor votes, which I probably won't end up doing anyway.

[kyle99]

Ok, I'm gonna

support: Socrates

since he seems to know what he's doing. I don't know whether I want to vote Monkey yet, since I don't want to lynch the cop, but there's a big chance that that's a L1 last change fake-claim. I guess I'll put him at L1, because I'm pretty sure noone can get lynched until we elect a mayor.

vote: Monkeyman

[kyle99]

FOS Kyle. I could lynch him too. Has not given a single original thought the whole game. Lurks hardcore. Follows the crowd. Probably lurkerscum.

Kyle, can you give us your top three suspect list and why you suspect them.

My top 3 suspect list is:

Monkeyman - He was at L1 and gave a pretty crappy excuse claiming cop.

nhammen - After monkeyman gets to L1, he says that he's a cop. nhammen says

Shit! I can believe this.

The fact that he believes the claim of cop when he was about to be lynched when he has already acted scummy.

DDD - He was a tonwnie in my last game, and this game, he's playing quite differently. Last game, he spent most of the game scumhunting, and this game, he seems to be posting, but not saying anything of importance.

[kyle99]

@ Kyle99: You state in your post that you don't know whether you want to vote MonkeyMan, but then change your mind

within the same post

and vote the guy? Explain yourself, please.

I said I wasn't sure, but its the best vote I have right now.

[kyle99]

mod: can we get vote/support count?

[kyle99]

To everyone concerned with my reaction to the claim: I said "I can believe this", not "I do believe this". But, if there is any chance of it being true, we should wait until tomorrow. It is only Day 1 after all. There is plenty of time. And lynching a power role Day 1 is a bad start to the game. It will give him an investigation, or he will be roleblocked. Either way, we get information. If we still don't believe tomorrow, we can always lynch him then.

In my opinion, a claimed cop should never be lynched day 1, unless there is role based information that he can't be trusted. If he's scum, he still has buddies and they can be lynched. This is a lesson I learned in my 2nd newbie game. But now that I think about it, Incog is the player that convinced me of this, and he was scum in that game. Hmmm... So was he wearing his IC hat when he said that or his scum hat? I still think it is a VERY bad idea to lynch a claimed cop on Day 1.

Alright, I guess we can wait till tommorow. Based on the last couple of posts, my top suspect right now is xRECKONERx. Who do you think is most scummy right now?

[kyle99]

As far as the claim, I thought I was at level 1 and I don't believe in letting scum have the chance to lynch me before having the chance to claim...

Bullshit.

Either you're lying, or you didn't read the rules.

The day wouldn't end, even after reaching the majority of players, before the Mayor will be chosen. We're still far from doing it, so you would have plenty of time to defend yourself even after hitting L-0.

I'm happy with my vote.

The rules don't say a player can't be lynched before deciding on mayor. AFAIK. Maybe you should rethink your position.

23. At the beginning of the game, the players decide who gets this role. This decission works as a normal lynching decission, except that votes should read Support: Player Name and Unsupport: Player Name.

Day 1 can't end through a lynch before a mayor has been chosen.

If, at the end of the day, no player has received the support of the majority of players, the player with the most support will become mayor. If there is a tie, the first player to have reached the highest amount of support will become mayor. If noone has received any support, a random player will become mayor.

[kyle99]

@Kyle: QUICK, off the top your head and without looking back at previous pages, what do you feel about SerialClergyman and MIC?

Serial seems like a clueless townie, and MIC seems scummy.

[kyle99]

@Kyle: QUICK, off the top your head and without looking back at previous pages, what do you feel about SerialClergyman and MIC?

Serial seems like a clueless townie, and MIC seems scummy.

SC: What do you mean by clueless? Are you finding yourself disagreeing with much of his arguments? if so, why do you get town from that?

MIC: How strong is this scum read? Would you be willing to lynch him instead of Monkey today?

By clueless, I was refering to this line:

Ugh, I'd lynch kyle, reckoner, DDD, MM, nhammen and Socrates atm. I'm officially a convert of Hoopla's mayor plan.

So, he wants to make Hoopla mayor, and he has made almost no posts of value, and he wants to lynch 6 different people. Seems kinda clueless.

My scum read on MIC isn't as big as my scum read on monkey, and I would much rather lynch monkey, but his cop claim kinda complicates things, and a couple people want to wait to lynch monkey until D2. So I guess I could go either way, but I personally think lynching monkey today is the right play.

[kyle99]

Ive been thinking about connections and whatnot and it is truely driving me crazy.

I am going to post my notes and if anybody has any questions I will answer them.

Right now I can be reasonably comfortable saying that if monkey is indeed scum, there are about five players that probably aren't his buddy.

Me
Charter
Kyle
DDD
MIC

2 of these names might confuse you.

for MIC, a scum would never say this about his scumbuddy:

No, I said Nhammen and Charter AND opportunists, suggesting that you two lie out of the 'opportunists' category. I intentially stuck those comments near lines that I know people (especially you, Charter and opportunists) are gonna want to bash me for. See right above. I acknowledge that it's horrible logic, but I really am tempted to want to lynch Monkey in this situation. Some likely scenarios: He flips scum, all good, someone can vig me tonight or something. He flips town, scum can nightkill me, you can all start scumhunting for real.

Sure, call it WIFOM all you like, but MIC really and truely thinks Monkey is town, whether that is because he is scum defending town or because he just really trusts his read on him. He most certainly is not defending a buddy.

Kyle I will get to in a minute.

--

I would be surprised if these people are his scumbuddy, but it isn't nearly as strong a read:

SaintKerrigan
RECKONER

These reads are based on how monkey chose to attack them, plus the timing of saint's vote. I concede that RECK could be a buddy of Monkey and he was just distancing, but Monkey doesn't seem the type to distance right out of the gate.

That leaves only a few people I can reasonably see as his scumbuddies:

Hoopla
SerialClergyman
Col. Cathart
nhammen

and all 4 of them voted monkey. I don't think all of the other scums bussed him and I have mild town reads on nhammen, and after reviewing SC I don't see much that jumps out at me other than his flimsy jump on the Monkey wagon.

It is seriously wierding me out how every single player in the game other than MIC and maybe REC has attacked monkey in some round about way, and I have reason the belive that MIC wouldn't be his scum buddy. Combine that with Monkey's general meta and the utility of letting him live a day and I am starting to get cold feet about lynching him.

So who in the world SHOULD I vote?

Kyle's vote on monkey is timed just so perfectly to read to me as scum trying to get a power role lynch. He doesn't say anything for the entirety of the wagon building, but jumps on after Monkey claims cop. I don't know, but I can say with much certainty that kyle and Monkey are not scum buddies. A bus just doesn't make sense here. His answers to my questions were pretty consistent with what I expected a scumKyle to say, weak town read on SC, decent but not strong scum read on MIC, and a desire to keep his vote on the claimed power role.

Also, remember those 4 support votes Hoopla got that I keep bringing up? I will go on record and say there is absolutely no chance that all 4 of those votes came from town. (ESPECIALLY if hoopla is scum) I want everyone to remember this for posterity when we get some alignment flips. Who would I pick as the worst support out of that bunch? You guessed it: Kyle.

My reads on other players are generally inconclusive:

Charter is town.
nhammen is probably town.

SC I am neutral on.
Hoopla hasn't posted enough.
I could see a scum RECK.
I am not ready to pursue a MIC lynch at this time.

Cathart started the game in a way consistent with how I expected scum to start (as previously discussed). After I called him out on it he backed down from it and has generally been pretty low key for most of the game. I could get behind a wagon on him at the least.

Saint- Hasn't posted enough. Did what Cathart did. I am not quite sure what to make of how he jumped on the Monkey wagon. I don't agree with MIC's case on him though. Maybe some other time.

unvote, vote:Kyle

Sorry for two wall of texts in a row.

So you think that monkeys claim of cop is legit? Because claiming cop on day one is almost always a bad thing to do, especially without a known doctor. Monkey being scum is the only logical reason I can think of claiming cop, besides the option of monkey being a bad player, which I don't think. If monkey is actually the cop, then he's almost guarenteed to be lynched tonight, which wouldn't be good for the town. Thus, I think monkey being scum is the only logical reason for claiming cop.

[kyle99]

You mean post 318? What in that post do you want me to answer?

[kyle99]

So does this mean that you guys still don't want to lynch monkey? Because he seems the most scummy right now. For anyone not voting money, is it because you believed his Cop claim, or because you don't think he's scummy for other reasons.

[kyle99]

I'm not sure about everyone else yet, my brain is killing me right now...

Yeah, mine too, that's the problem. You could make a case against almost anyone for being scum right now.

[kyle99]

Antiprod. Kyle is giving me the cold shoulder. I'm wondering if he is hoping that I will just go away if he keeps quiet long enough.

I'm here! What do you need to know?

[kyle99]

Kyle, I want you to respond to this:

So you think that monkeys claim of cop is legit? Because claiming cop on day one is almost always a bad thing to do, especially without a known doctor. Monkey being scum is the only logical reason I can think of claiming cop, besides the option of monkey being a bad player, which I don't think. If monkey is actually the cop, then he's almost guarenteed to be lynched tonight, which wouldn't be good for the town. Thus, I think monkey being scum is the only logical reason for claiming cop.

What do you think cops should do if they are wagoned to a claim? Lie about their role?

And saying that he shouldn't have claimed yet wont fly with me. Monkey is the type of player who will see that he is at L-1 and claim without considering the context of the situation.

Your hop on Monkey looks sooooo much like scum justification to jump on a power role. Please, flesh out your thought process in order to convince me that it is genuine.

It's not me trying to flush out a power role simply because I don't believe his claim. I don't know who here actually believes this, but if I actually believed it, I wouldn't vote to lynch him.

[kyle99]

That isn't your argument at all. In the paragraph

that I just quoted

you claimed that his claim was a really bad move for a cop to make so you have to conclude that he must be scum fakeclaiming. You were using Monkey's claim itself to justify your vote right there.

No, I said there was no good reason for him to claim cop unless he was scum, hence the vote for him.

[kyle99]

That isn't your argument at all. In the paragraph

that I just quoted

you claimed that his claim was a really bad move for a cop to make so you have to conclude that he must be scum fakeclaiming. You were using Monkey's claim itself to justify your vote right there.

No, I said there was no good reason for him to claim cop unless he was scum, hence the vote for him.

Um, yea, thats EXACTLY what I said you were doing, and I am saying it is scummy as all hell.

Answer my question Kyle. Pray tell, what SHOULD a cop have done in his situation?

I don't know what a cop should have done in that situation, it's obviously a bad situation to be in. IF he is the cop, he can either not claim and possibly be lynched or claim and possibly not be lynched, but then night killed tonight. IF I was mafia, I wouldn't risk getting myself lynched by trying to get Monkey lynched because I would have just NKed monkey.

[kyle99]

Just saying that Hoopla and Monkey are at L2 and Socrates is at M1.

[kyle99]

Just saying that Hoopla and Monkey are at L2 and Socrates is at M1.

What a useful post, I mean it wasn't like there was a vote count posted just a few posts ago or anything that anyone could clearly read. Tell me Kyle, are you afraid of posting much because I'll compare your play here with the newbie game we just got out of?

No, that was my first game, and my play is much different now. You should compare someone's 5th game to their 1st game.

[kyle99]

Just saying that Hoopla and Monkey are at L2 and Socrates is at M1.

What a useful post, I mean it wasn't like there was a vote count posted just a few posts ago or anything that anyone could clearly read. Tell me Kyle, are you afraid of posting much because I'll compare your play here with the newbie game we just got out of?

Well, this is interesting. Can you link to this game? What is your interpretation of Kyle so far?

All of my games are in my wiki page, and the one he's referring to is the game furthest on the bottom of the table.

[kyle99]

Just saying that Hoopla and Monkey are at L2 and Socrates is at M1.

What a useful post, I mean it wasn't like there was a vote count posted just a few posts ago or anything that anyone could clearly read. Tell me Kyle, are you afraid of posting much because I'll compare your play here with the newbie game we just got out of?

Well, this is interesting. Can you link to this game? What is your interpretation of Kyle so far?

All of my games are in my wiki page, and the one he's referring to is the game furthest on the bottom of the table.

That makes anything he has to say not relevant?

Anything who says? I'm confused about your statement.

[kyle99]

@Socrates, You seem to think I'm scum, and that's fine, I guess, but do you honestly think that I'm more scummy than monkey? I've tried to be a good townsperson, but I'm just not that great of a scumhunter, which could lead to some people thinking I'm scum. But do you really think I'm a better lynch than monkey?

[kyle99]

What happens if the person I investigate ends up dead? What should I do? Lie? Decline to report it? Resign to being lynched?

I'm not doubting Socrates is town, but I am doubting weather he should be mayor.

Unsupport: Socrates

If a cop is investigating people that are likely NK targets they R DOIN IT RONG.

What qualities do you think a mayor should have, and what reasons did you have for unsupporting Socrates? Who is your second choice for mayor?

[kyle99]

The main explanation most of you give for voting me is that I "jumped on the bandwagon" and voted monkey. Socrates, you said that my the fact that I voted for him right after he claimed cop seemed suspicious, however this would only seem scummy if you thought that monkey was cop. So I'm just curious Socrates, do you think that monkey is the actual cop?

[kyle99]

^ Lynch him.

Ok, we all get the point, you want to lynch me. You don't have to keep saying it, we've already heard it plenty of times.

[kyle99]

That's because there was still time to try get Hoopla lynched.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CUgMaL89Lqc

[kyle99]

Although I think Hoopla is getting away with a major infraction, as promised, I will

Unvote:
Vote: Kyle99

Wait, what? The rounds already over, you were lynched.

[kyle99]

I'm not lost. Why does going on about Kyle make me scummy? Nothing Kyle has done alleviates my concerns.

What exactly are the reasons you find me scummy?

[kyle99]

@Kyle: Who are you suspicious of today?

Hoopla could possibly be an SK. She's not playing like she's town, in my opinion, but if she were scum I would've expected her to jump off the MonkeyMan wagon and onto Kyle; thus, an SK.

Vote: Hoopla.

@ DDD: Why is Cathart a town read?

Meh. A Hoopla-Monkey scum team is one of the few situations that I wouldn't be surprised to see scum decide not to drop a bus. She would have already had to put her vote there for self preservation even though Monkey was a scum power role, and it was pretty obvious that Monkey was doomed to die at some indeterminate time in the future. Since trying to save monkey would have been a hopeless exercise and if she did hop over to Kyle, and then Kyle flipped town and Monkey flipped scum, she would be looking at a pretty tight spot, it would be reasonable for scum to decide to go for a distancing tactic. And I have already said how I feel the antagonism between her and Monkey as the day ended seemed artificial. I mean, come on. "Nice job fooling them Hoopla."?

Right now, I'm thinking a Monkey-xRECKONERx-Hoopla scum-team seems most likely. xRECKONERx keeps wanting to lynch me and won't give any reasons, and Hoopla is playing anti-town, but she voted to lynch monkey, but this could have been a bus.

[kyle99]

@ Kyle: Do you think we have a Vigilante then instead of a Serial Killer?

Not really, because I don't think either SerialClergyMan or nhammen were at the top of anyone's scum list. Either we have a serial killer or a dumb Vigilante imo.

[kyle99]

So then why do you think we have 3 scum + 1 Serial Killer? That seems a bit overpowered against the town, in my opinion, having two anti-town killing roles, as well as a roleblocker. I think we either have 3 scum + Town Vigilante or 2 scum + 1 Serial Killer.

If it's a 2 scum + 1 serial killer, I think Monkey/Reck scumteam and Hoopla as the serial killer works out well. If not, I think Monkey/Reck/Hoopla works well aswell. I just don't see why a Vigilante would want to kill nhamen of SerialClergyman.

[kyle99]

Vote: Hoopla

No vig means hoopla is probably the sk, and this will limit the # of NKs.

[kyle99]

Wait, WTF, that was the hammer!

...not that I don't think Hoopla is scum, but seriously!

I'm very suspicious of xReck now, and of Kyle to a slightly lesser degree.

If think Hoopla is scum/sk, why wouldn't you want a hammer?

[kyle99]

For what it's worth, my guesses are that Reck is town, and that charter is scum. These are the two major vibes I'm getting right now.

So, are you saying your town?

[kyle99]

Ok, I think reck was at the top of most peoples scumlist, so I'm pretty sure we have a vigilante instead of a SK.

[kyle99]

@ Kyle99: That's not necessarily true. If I remember correctly, if someone kills the person a bodyguard is protecting, the bodyguard dies instead. So, xReck could've been protecting someone else who got shot. (In all likelihood, it was me, since I seriously expected to die overnight as a confirmed townie.)

Well, I didn't really want to be the mayor, I'm not that good of a scumhunter. But seeing as I'm it now, I'll try and do my best. My current top pick for scum is Kyle99, followed by DDD and MOI.

Ah, forgot about him being bodyguard. Why do you suspect me, DDD, and MOI as scum?

[kyle99]

Ok, thanks SK.

I'm gonna do a review when I get back from snowboarding later tonight,

[kyle99]

Alright, here kyle's terrible player summary post.
# charter
Charter pushed pretty hard for monkey's lynch in the beginning of the game, I doubt charter's scum.
# Moai Interceptor Cannons
Didn't vote monkey on day one and kept trying to get everyone to vote Hoopla instead, who flipped town. Maybe scum.
# Debonair Danny DiPietro
Lurked alot, but I couldn't really see him as scum. Hasn't jumped a lot of bandwagons, and he voted monkey from the beginning when he could have jumped on a couple other popular town wagons.
# Col.Cathart
Seems town. Voted monkey in the beginning, when he could have switiched his vote to the almost-as-popular Hoopla, who was town.
# SaintKerrigan
SK is basically the only confirmed town. There wouldn't be only 1 mason, and SK claimed a while ago and no one has counter-claimed yet, so I'm almost positive SK is town.
I think the best vote right now is MOI, but idk. Thoughts?

[kyle99]

I would like for everyone to do a massclaim, starting with Kyle, and going Popcorn style.

I claim tracker.

N1 Choice = Hoopla; Result = No Target
N2 Choice = MOI; Result = SaintKerrigan

@MOI: Please claim

[kyle99]

I would like for everyone to do a massclaim, starting with Kyle, and going Popcorn style.

I claim tracker.

N1 Choice = Hoopla; Result = No Target
N2 Choice = MOI; Result = SaintKerrigan

@MOI: Please claim

Bull****. If you were the tracker, you wouldn't have hammered Hoopla yesterday because you would've know she wasn't either Mafia or SK. Ladies and gentlemen, we have a definite scum. As soon as the massclaim is done, I'm voting him.

@ Everyone: Please do not vote for Kyle or anyone else until the massclaim is done. MIC, you're next.

Actually, no, that makes no sense, because I was almost sure that Hoopla was scum but she had a lot more pressure on her so I thought that her scum-partner made the kill.

[kyle99]

So you guys are going to lynch me for making a bad choice on hammering Hoopla? Whatever...

[kyle99]

Alright, I'm dead. I claim mafia.

Was a really fun game, really look forward to how it turns out

[kyle99]

Damnit.

Haha sorry.

[kyle99]

I totally screwed up with that crappy claim, sorry Col and Monkey

[kyle99]

Why do I die N1 so often? Either I'm obv town and scum kills me, or I'm scummy and there's a vig.

Good game town! Good job kerrigan!

kyle's bus had me totally convinced. I was actually thinking that his attack on monkey meant that he was the cop, so he knew monkey was lying. That was an incredible bus kyle. Until your claim, I was sure you were town.

Thanks, I guess I did something right