Mini 892 - Mayor Mafia (GAME OVER)

[Moai Interceptor Cannons]

[Moai Interceptor Cannons]

Woops that was my alt.

[Moai Interceptor Cannons]

Cathart, I deduce that you are scum from your post just now. What say you?

[Moai Interceptor Cannons]

Bravo, Cathart. I stand corrected. But I will get you one day, Cathart, mark my words.

[Moai Interceptor Cannons]

I fully support Reckoner for mayor.

[Moai Interceptor Cannons]

Original Roll String: 42d2

42 2-Sided Dice: (2, 1, 2, 1, 1, 2, 2, 2, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 2, 1, 2, 2, 1, 2, 1, 2, 2, 1, 1, 2, 2, 2, 2, 2, 2, 1, 2, 1, 2, 2, 1, 2, 2, 1, 1, 1, 2) = 65

Original Roll String: 42d2

42 2-Sided Dice: (1, 2, 1, 1, 2, 2, 2, 2, 1, 1, 2, 2, 1, 2, 2, 2, 2, 1, 2, 2, 1, 1, 2, 2, 2, 2, 2, 2, 1, 2, 1, 1, 2, 1, 2, 2, 2, 2, 1, 2, 2, 1) = 69

Original Roll String: 42d2

42 2-Sided Dice: (1, 2, 2, 2, 1, 1, 2, 1, 1, 1, 1, 2, 1, 2, 1, 2, 1, 1, 2, 2, 2, 2, 1, 1, 1, 2, 1, 2, 2, 1, 2, 2, 1, 2, 2, 2, 2, 2, 2, 2, 2, 2) = 67

[Moai Interceptor Cannons]

The universe has spoken --

Vote: SerialClergyman

.

[Moai Interceptor Cannons]

There are two possible lines of thought that I have: give it to the best player you can find, or give it to someone who will crack under pressure. In other words, I think b) and c) are the most important, especially for day 1.

I agree with this. Unfortunately, you don't look like the type to crack under pressure at all, bro.

I'll put my support at

Support: xRECKONERx

for now. I might move my support to Socrates if I get a better town read on him at some point. Probably not gonna be supporting anyone else at this point (or ever).

In other news, MonkeyMan, Cathart and Kerrigan (maybe Hoopla too) are scum.

Unvote, Vote: MonkeyMan576

. Wagon go!

[Moai Interceptor Cannons]

I change my mind.

Unvote, Vote: SaintKerrigan

. Also, what's all this Hoopla support about?

[Moai Interceptor Cannons]

ITT:

charter tunnels too much

-----
The case on Monkey is being epicly overinflated IMO. Haha, 'town points' - that's a good one Charter. Serial, your reason especially is a bit pathetic for someone of your apparent calibre: bemusement = town, concern = scum? What?

[Moai Interceptor Cannons]

MOI, what happened to change your mind to unvote Monkey and vote Kerrigan?

Kerrigan was always the better vote than Monkey in my eyes. It's just that Monkey had a bigger wagon at the time, but his reaction was inconclusive. Also, Charter, we're only on page four. Calm down a little.

[Moai Interceptor Cannons]

Monkey, who are

you

suspicious of?

[Moai Interceptor Cannons]

MOI, why was Kerrigan a better vote than Monkey?

It was something to do with Kerrigan's his post 66, but I want to wait until he checks into the thread again before commenting (i.e. interrogating him) on that. For the meanwhile, let me digress and turn your attention to the first half of Cathart's post 58:

vote: Reckoner

I don't trust anyone who supports himself for the mayor.

What do you think of this?

[Moai Interceptor Cannons]

Hoopla, you've just put Monkey on L-2 if I count correctly. And the way I understand it, if Monkey gets to L-0 then

you

(the person with most support for mayor) become the mayor and he dies anyway.

@Mod: Is that how it works?

What do you think was off about Monkey's reaction to his own wagon?

Err.. i'm a bit of a results over reasons guy.. hence all my talk about being unconvincing. To me, and not necessarily to everyone else I accept, the scummiest thing Money has done is gotten worried over a wagon that he thought had no basis. If you're town and have 4 votes and genuine in thinking there's no reason people are voting you, you also aren't worried about being lynched. Monkey gave me the distinct inpression he was, and was looking for someone to argue with and defend himself against. He just didn't handle the pressure like I'd expect him to.

Serial, right after the fourth vote on Monkey (i.e. he actually waited until there were four votes) he simply pointed out that there were four votes on him without a good reason - I don't know how you got the distinct impression that he was worried from that. If anything I find the

lack

of reaction more eyebrow-raising than what you're trying to push.

@Charter, I'll get back to you in a minute.

@ MOI: I'd kinda like to hear why one post makes me vote-worthy, too.

Before we get to the main dish, here's a question for you. Do you want to be mayor or not? I'll only accept 'yes' or 'no' as the answer to this question.

[Moai Interceptor Cannons]

Oh? Not the reply I was expecting. I basically read your post 66 as 'I kinda want to be mayor, but if I nominate myself people might see me as scummy so I'll just imply it'. The whole post just struck me as very dishonest and subtly contradictory of itself. If you don't want to be mayor, why did you fill out Serial's mayoral qualities thing?

[Moai Interceptor Cannons]

- I thought Kerrigan was more scummy in the first place.
- I voted Monkey because his wagon was bigger. Bandwagons are fun and all.
- I switched to Kerrigan because Monkey's reaction was inconclusive.

@Hoopla, I interpreted it the way I did because there was no explanation as to what would happen if the lynch majority was achieved before the mayor support majority. Also: {16. As soon as a mayority [

sic

] of votes (more then half the number of votes) agrees on a person to lynch, that decision stands. Vote changes after that will no longer be counted.}

[Moai Interceptor Cannons]

Wouldn't nominate =/= don't want to be. There's a difference. It sounded like you were scared of nominating yourself because you thought that, as you said yourself, 'people that nominate themselves shouldn't get the role'. Your answers to the questionnaire were an act of modesty, same as Serial's, Reckoner's, Nhammen's -- do we see a trend here? No one is arrogant enough to claim that they meet all the requirements to be a perfect mayor. I realise you can keep repeating that you answered the questionnaire because you 'thought it was a good idea', but do you see anyone else answering it and not wanting to me mayor? Serial himself is in denial about it, but that's because he believes there are better options. Unlike you: 'not yet sure who to nominate either'. If your post was actually a bid for mayor, it would've been fine. But wanting to be considered for mayor + not saying it outright because you felt that 'people that nominate themselves shouldn't get the role' = dishonesty. Now if you actually didn't want to be mayor in the first place, then I am mistaken (and I apologise), but that was the impression I got from your post 66, and even if I was right you can keep claiming I was wrong anyway. This line of argument isn't going to go anywhere, so let me ask you something else. Why did you feel that 'people that nominate themselves shouldn't get the role'? Also, who are you suspicious of?

@Charter, the answer to why I think Kerrigan is scummy is somewhere above. In short, what Monkey and Cathart did + actually wanting to be considered for mayor. Maybe I should get your opinion - does post 66 give you the impression that Kerrigan was being dishonest about wanting to be mayor? Mind you it's not as strong a suspicion that I'm willing to burn through him with a magnifying glass for it - after all it's still early game. Conversely, I don't get why you saw Monkey's blanket statement as a tell that he couldn't be anything but scum either. Why did you only give Cathart a FoS even before he retracted anything, whilst you had Monkey pegged as '100% scum'?

I'm not a fan of Hoopla's idea at all TBH. Town are uninformed and scum can WIFOM. All very pointless. And since it doesn't look like anyone else wants Reckoner to be mayor, I'll

Unsupport, Support: nhammen

.

[Moai Interceptor Cannons]

Your case on Kerrigan is almost nonexistent. I do not get anything about Kerrigan wanting to be mayor. In fact, I get the opposite.

Do people really not see the discrepancy between answering Serial's mayoral test thing and then claiming he doesn't want to be mayor?

My opinion on the case on Monkey. I'll acknowledge Charter's and Socrates' reasonings as valid, even if they're not as strong as Charter thinks they are. More on this below. Serial's reasoning is weak, and Hoopla's (and previously Reckoner's) is nonexistent as far as I see it. The basis behind Monkey's case ends at his page one post for me. Beyond that, it's Charter inflating it into something I don't get, and Monkey trying to justify it with something I don't get either. Monkey's offense is equal to Cathart's IMO, and the fact that Monkey stuck with it whilst Cathart retracted doesn't really make Cathart any better (if every statement could be retracted like that scum would have a field day). I find Monkey's reaction to the votes weird, but not scummy per se, especially not in the direction Serial thinks it is (we heavily disagree here, Serial).

Socrates' and Monkey's recent posts have both been a whole lot of blah blah blah - if there's anything important I actually need to read in them someone please point it out to me thanks. Also, unless we want to stretch the day to January 7 and let Hoopla choose who gets lynched, it looks like we really do need to elect a mayor first. My order of preference is Reckoner, Nhammen, Socrates. No-one else. People who want to be mayor need to start campaigning hard so that we can actually reach some kind of consensus. I don't want the majority of the day to be used up on mayor theory discussions (I'm looking at you, Hoopla and friends).

MIC, not to look a gift horse in the mouth, but why did you switch your support from Reck to me? There were other options available. What about me makes me stand out? Why were you supporting Reck in the first place?

Let's start with Reck. I supported him because of his very first post. Having the balls to run for mayor on page one is a town-tell to me. The fact that he did it on page one meant that he couldn't have made that decision after discussing it with his scumbuddies (as may be the case with Socrates). I also have a slight town read on him - contrary to what other people think - even if he is being pretty useless. I believe the mayor has to be the very opposite of convincing, such that the damage is minimised if the position lands on scum (and it's not like the town

needs

a doublevote), hence Reck. But obviously no-one else wanted Reck as mayor. I don't really like any of the other options. Socrates I'm not getting town vibes from (maybe a little). Serial and Hoopla I'm actually getting mild scum vibes from. I'm also worried about your jumping around and not sticking your vote/focus anywhere in particular, and I realise that you've never been scum before, but you're the best option out of everyone that actually has a chance of being mayor, so I'll gamble on you.

[Moai Interceptor Cannons]

@MIC: You talked about me and Socrates - what makes you support me over nhammen for mayor?

I've said this somewhere before. You're a nice balance of looking town (to me) and posing no threat even if you were mayor as scum.

@Nhammen, I cannot answer for anything Monkey did. It almost looks like you're expecting me to. Just a warning.

It looked to me like Serial wanted everyone to comment on it. Commenting and showing why he is not a good candidate looks like he didn't want to be mayor to me.

I completely disagree here. Serial wanted people to comment on the

validity of the list itself

and/or

players who fit the criteria

(i.e. 'candidates' - not 'non-candidates') maybe, but I honestly do not see a reason to fill it out when you don't want to be at least considered for mayor (with the

possible

special exception of its creator, see below). Wouldn't a simple 'I don't want to be mayor' suffice? Or even 'I shouldn't be mayor because I suck at scumhunting, townhunting and convincing people'. Or even not mentioning it at all, like most people. Again, I don't think anyone can truthfully claim that they fit all the criteria (I mean yours was 1/5, yet you're still supporting yourself).

!! Especially considering that Serial did the SAME THING in the post where he asked the question. Why are you

two

attacking Saint for this but not Serial?

I wasn't even attacking Kerrigan until Charter asked me to (it was a page 4 gut vote FFS). Also, Serial's context was not the same. There were several people campaigning for him to be mayor. He then creates a list of mayoral qualities, and demonstrates that he himself does not fit all these qualities (meaning there are better options). And seriously Nhammen, think of how fishy it would be if Serial spews out this list and proceeds

not

to answer it himself given the support on him at the time. But I do believe Serial wants to be mayor

to an extent

, he's just saying that it might not be the best idea. I have a (very) mild scum read on Serial anyway, as mentioned in my last post.

Anyone not voting Monkey, please explain why.

I find it ridiculous how you resort to threats like this and 'town points' to get people on your wagons. Seriously don't, it's annoying.

Comments on recent Monkey developments after I sleep, wake up, do stuff, etc.

[Moai Interceptor Cannons]

O hai gaiz. I'm back, and stuff seems to have happened while I was holidaying in the Amazon. Either I have gone mad, or you all have gone mad. As such, I present you with the following consolidation post on every matter relevant to this game in its current time from my point of view. You may refer to this post as '

What MIC Thinks Of Everything So Far

'.

ARTICLE 1
CONCERNING MUPPETS OR SOMETHING

Monkey was unfairly pressured. His offense was not deserving of the intensity of the attack Charter directed at him. He cracked. Like what I did in this one game on one of my alts where I was town and asked if the RVS was over and got pounded on the basis of 'testing the waters' or whatever it was.

All else failed. He was desperate to prove Charter was wrong.

He resorted to AtE. What's important isn't the actual intention of Charter's post in Muppets, but rather what Monkey

believed

was its intention. Come on, think. Nobody would purposely throw onto the table an argument they thought was wrong. Then he claimed. That was his last resort. Because there was too much pressure.

ARTICLE 2
CONCERNING THE COP CLAIM

If I recall correctly one of the people who reviewed this setup absolutely hates cops. Still,

I don't think Monkey's scum

(yes read this sentence again if you want), but I'll read Monkey's other games just to be sure. Reactions to the claim, I will analyse sometime in the near future.

ARTICLE 3
CONCERNING MY 'ATTACK' ON KERRIGAN

I usually get away with not sticking reasons on my votes that early in the game. See my vote on Monkey? No problems. But when I switched and Charter asked me for reasons, I complied. What a big mistake that was. Remind me to deny all future requests asking me to explain my votes. If I thought my vote was worth explaining, I would've done so in the same post. And to all you opportunists and Nhammen and Charter who will read this and want to bash me for it, I love you too. This happened in my last game too - I simply put a vote on someone early on in the day, someone asked me to explain, I did and people suddenly thought I wanted to lynch them. No I do not vote people because I want to lynch them. I want to lynch scum.

I do not know who the scum are

. The period of time in between the start of a day and the end of a day exists for us to discover this mystery.

It was not at all my intention to 'attack' Kerrigan. I simply thought his post was indicative enough of scum mentality to warrant a

page four vote

.

ARTICLE 4
CONCERNING NHAMMEN'S INQUIRIES

"And his own arguments have sucked."

This is funny because

my arguments make near-perfect sense to me

and I seem to be having a hard time getting you to understand. You see when I write all these words for you, my expected reaction is 'oh, I see', so

it confuses me when you continually come up with these questions

.

"1 - Gut votes are crap."

I love gut votes. 68% of my votes will be based around gut feelings, 99% if we're talking D1. The only way a D1 vote would

not

based on gut feelings is if scum slipped - which is not very often. If the scum never slip, gut is necessary (and effective) to find them scummy.

"2 - So after Charter asked you to explain your vote, you decided to find a reason? Am I understanding what you are saying incorrectly here?"

There is a difference between a reason

in my head

and a reason

I have to present in-thread to other people

. Post 66 set off my scumdar. There was a reason in my head. I voted him. A reason in my head is for my use only. It's made of brain signals. I usually only present an actual argument when I want to convince people that someone is scum. I could've ended it with 'it felt dishonest'. Maybe I should've. But I didn't, I explained it further. I turned brain signals into words. My words that eventually came out in-thread are what you interpreted as an attack on Kerrigan. Which it really wasn't (see above). Also see the bottom line of post 71. I was only half joking there.

"So Serial wanted to preempt the push for him to be mayor. How is this different from Saint?"

I don't even understand this question.

"And if Monkey is not scum, then we shouldn't be lynching him. Either way, I think at this point vote MIC is the way to go."

Would you mind explaining to me the logic behind me being scum if Monkey isn't? Because if this reasoning flies then defending players is now considered a scumtell regardless of the alignment of the defended player. Which I am really going to laugh hard about post-game.

ARTICLE 5
CONCERNING ALL THE PLAYERS

Charter - This guy is just wrong a lot IMO. Obvtown though.
Kyle - This guy looks town~

ish

so far. Could be town.
Danny - This guy

seriously

needs to post moar. No idea.
Serial - This guy's moved up on my town list. Not so sure now.
Hoopla - This girl needs to post less mayor theory and more of everything else. Could be scum, not too sure.
Socrates - This guy is really hard to read. Not too sure.
Monkey - This guy needs to be analysed meta-wise. But leaning town.
Reck - This guy needs to post moar

content

. But probably town.
Nhammen - This guy's lack of focus is worrisome. But probably town.
Cathart - This guy is playing fishy and staying under radar. Could be scum.

*Disclaimer: GUT IN EMPLOYMENT*

Kerrigan - This guy I could be wrong about. But leaning scum.

GLOBAL DISCLAIMER: I am uninformed and could be entirely wrong.

ARTICLE 6
CONCERNING MY OPINIONS ON THE MAYOR

The ideal qualities would be town, excellent scumhunter and convincing. But I'm talking about 90+% catch rate here. Which is unrealistic. And no one here fits that anyway.

So I'll settle with town and unconvincing.

That way we can play like the mayor is completely irrelevant, as normal of a game a possible. See Reck's vote on Kyle? Went completely unnoticed. Like it wasn't even there at all. If Reck was mayor it'd be like the mayor isn't even there at all. I like it. This mayor position just makes the game more swingy, which means an extra dimension of skill and care is needed. And I'm too lazy to want to worry about that shit.

ARTICLE 7
CONCERNING THE PLACEMENT OF MY VOTE

You guys are seriously tempting me to want to lynch Monkey. If he flips town I will be proven right all along and you can start listening to me and we can all stop being silly. But of course that's horrible logic. Don't tempt me even more

please

. Oh hi, opportunists and Nhammen and Charter, I still love you guys. My vote on Kerrigan is pretty useless right now. There is nothing to argue with him about. But voting Cathart won't do anything either considering you people's immense hatred of gut-driven suspicions. And I'm waiting for Hoopla to say stuff. I could unvote, but that's entirely pointless.

So I'll just leave it on Kerrigan.

ARTICLE 8
CONCERNING DEAR CHARTER

Here. Have a nice picture of a

unicorn with a rainbow in the background

.



This game is making my sanity level drop several kilometres on the Richter scale. I am not overreacting

A

T

A

L

L

. Opportunists and Nhammen and Charter, I will love you forever.

Please marry me.

This post was brought to you by Konami Digital Entertainment. Buy some shoes.

I am an adbot smart enough to bypass the spam filter.

[Moai Interceptor Cannons]

Ok, gut is gut, I understand. Can you expand your point about my 'fishy play' and 'staying under the radar'? Because I don't think, I'm doing that, so I want to know, why are you accusing me of it.

I've played very similarly to how you're playing in this game on more than one occasion as scum. Not making any points that actually

add

anything significant to the discussion. Sitting back and watching the town kill themselves is favourite scum strategy of mine. To be honest there are probably others guilty of doing this as well, but you stuck out for some reason.

But just because 1 piece of evidence sucks does not mean all of the evidence sucks. Also, you REALLY should not be defending another player in this fashion. There are very few circumstances where this is pro-town.

I picked that out because it looked like the point at which people started jumping on his wagon en masse. It was mentioned that there was no way that post came from a pro-town player, and I'm simply giving a likely reason (in bold). I actually think that post was scummy too, but the fact that his wagon up to that point looked like it was made of air has probably biased me (I'll stop with the overdefending from now on). I was defending him exactly because I'm not really sure

what

the rest of the evidence was. His page one post was slightly scummy, I accept. Would you care to enlighten me on the rest?

You should have just said it was gut if it was just gut. I would have disagreed, but my opinion on gut votes is my opinion. Giving more information, when your more information was not even a reason at all is scummy. Yes, I know your arguments make sense to you. When nobody else agreed, you should have backed down.

There are people who won't be satisfied with just 'gut', but it seems I've learnt a new lesson from this game. I usually back down when people simply don't

agree

with me, but when people claim my argument doesn't make sense when it does to me then I feel kinda

obliged

to clarify. Again, I wasn't trying to convince anyone.

Your explanation was that Serial wanted to stop people from voting him for mayor, because a few people were pushing for this. How is this different from what Saint was doing? Just because nobody was voting for Saint yet?

You said it right there. Nobody even

said

anything about Kerrigan beforehand. His answering of the questionnaire was entirely unprovoked.

How did you get a read on Kyle but not Danny? They both need to post more.

Kyle does need to post more yes, but my reads are not entirely dependent on word count. See that I got a town read on Reck very early on in the game whilst Socrates and his wall posts have yet to induce any kind of read from me. Kyle's earlier posts smelled of noob, but calling you out on your weird reaction to the claim (it

was

weird) was somewhat insightful. I probably gave him too much credit though, consider him 'not too sure' actually.

Define "lack of focus"

Well it's nice to see that you're focusing on me now, but earlier in the day your questions were all over the place and your vote wasn't on anyone.

If he flips town you will be proven right?? This comment pings my scumdar.

Don't worry, it pings

my

scumdar too.

You keep calling me and charter opportunists. Why?

No, I said Nhammen and Charter AND opportunists, suggesting that you two lie out of the 'opportunists' category. I intentially stuck those comments near lines that I know people (especially you, Charter and opportunists) are gonna want to bash me for. See right above. I acknowledge that it's horrible logic, but I really am tempted to want to lynch Monkey in this situation. Some likely scenarios: He flips scum, all good, someone can vig me tonight or something. He flips town, scum can nightkill me, you can all start scumhunting for real.

-----

I read some of Monkey's other games, I did notice a somewhat noticable difference between his play as town and scum. Might not want to say what it is now, because Monkey might start intentionally avoiding his scum meta. His play in this game does not really match the scum tell I picked up, but there are anomalies (which may be related to his alleged role of cop). Also, hindsight bias and all that.

@Monkey, who do you want lynched today and why?

I don't get all the Kyle hate. Currently waiting for Socrates to say stuff. I want to finalise this mayor business ASAP. I, like Reck, don't care enough about it to let it consume D1 and would be willing to go with what the rest of the town thinks (with the exception of some things).

[Moai Interceptor Cannons]

Unsupport, Support: Socrates

Kyle: His last post is bad logic. Seems to believe that it's valid logic. Not sure if just noob.
Monkey: His last post makes no sense. Lack of sincerity. Nhammen makes a good call.
Danny vs Serial: Feels like town bashing town to me. Don't see the case on Danny.
Hoopla: I eagerly await the arrival and success of said technician. No seriously.

[Moai Interceptor Cannons]

MIC - why the Socrates support?

My order of preference is Reckoner, Nhammen, Socrates.

* Socrates (4)

Socrates, charter, Col.Cathart, kyle99

Currently waiting for Socrates to say stuff. I want to finalise this mayor business ASAP.

Socrates - your two big posts were excellent.

----------

I'd like to know what about this argument gives you that they are both town. I agree that the points against DDD are pretty bad. But where do you get that the bad points mean they are both town?

Come on Nhammen, are you being this nitpicky with me on purpose? I'm not picking up any scumtells from either side. Hence,

feels like town bashing town

. I actually chose that word 'feels' so that people like you wouldn't say stuff like this, guess my vocabulary needs improvement. Bad points don't necessarily equal scum, if that's what you're getting at.

Reckoner, nhammen, and MIC, what are you thoughts on Hoopla? Town/scum? Why?

If I had to circle one, scum. Acting funny, could just be from limited access. Jumped on Monkey wagon for no reason. That one post of hers after Monkey's claim feels a bit like scum saying 'we can NK this guy anyway'. Willing to let her talk more before forming a solid read. Pressure wagon is understandable, not a fan of lynching her at this point. Looking forward to what she has to say now that she's out of limited access.

Hoopla, MIC, nhammen, what is your opinion on Reckoner? Town/scum?

Again if I had to circle one, town. From an early gut read. Dunno what you're talking about with your 'this guy must be scum'. I've probably been giving him a free pass though. May need metareading at some point. Asked scummy questions in his last last post (see Sigma in our last game ). I don't agree about Monkey and Hoopla being scumbuddies. Will reconsider my stance on Reckoner.

[Moai Interceptor Cannons]

Hoopla's 375 was underwhelming (i.e. sucks). Now willing to pursue Hoopla wagon.

Unvote, Vote: Hoopla

.

@Monkey, what do you think of Hoopla?
@Kerrigan, what do you think of everything?

[Moai Interceptor Cannons]

I'm here, not much to report. Nhammen is being scummy with his questioning, may look at him after we get some alignments. Kyle seems to genuinely believe what he's saying makes sense, undecided if noob/scum. Vehemently against a Reck lynch at this point (not that that's actually anywhere close to going ahead). Still think Hoopla is a nice (i.e. the best) lynch, sadly seems to be a little lacking in support behind the Monkey wagon.

@Hoopla, what do you think of Kyle and Monkey?
@Serial and Nhammen, what do you think of Kyle?

[Moai Interceptor Cannons]

This day is becoming stagnant.

[Moai Interceptor Cannons]

Anti-prod. Was out the whole day. Socrates, will respond to you after I sleep. Your questions look like they need quite a bit of hypothetical thinking while at the same time designed to hustle me into switching my vote from Hoopla to Kyle.

[Moai Interceptor Cannons]

MIC,

I'm here!

If you were scum and you were getting a lot of crap for V/LA problems, how would you have reacted?

I would point out that what they are accusing me for is ridiculous. I would then write a reasonable townie-looking catch up post, pointing out scummy things other town players have done but with a bit of distancing here and there on my scumbuddies as well (only if they have done anything scummy, otherwise no mention). Then depending on how suspicious my scumbuddies are, I will either join the most popular non-scum wagon* or bus one of my scumbuddies who is under heavy fire. If people continue to push that my attitude during limited access is scummy, I will ask them to clarify what exactly about my play was scummy and defend myself to the best of my ability (if the case is valid), or start acting like Danny (if the case is ridiculous).

* Unless said wagon is a claimed power role or has some other special circumstance that might discourage me from joining the wagon. In this case I might join the next popular non-scum wagon, but usually there isn't one popular enough in which case I'll just make the most logical looking vote on a non-scum person.

If town?

I would point out that what they are accusing me for is ridiculous. I would then write a sensible honest catch up post, commenting on everything, pointing out who I think is scummy and why, and possibly who I think is not scummy and why (the mayor in this case). Then I will make a sensible decision as to whose wagon I join. If I strongly disagree with the most popular wagon then I would voice my protest, if I don't really mind then I'll let it slide. If people continue to push that my attitude during limited access is scummy, I will ask them to clarify what exactly about my play was scummy and shoot down all their misconceptions (if I can see a way in which my play can be interpreted as scummy), or start acting like Danny (if the case is ridiculous).

How about if you were off a wagon when the person being wagoned claimed a power role?

Well this is the case with me in this game (Monkey's wagon). I was not in support of the Monkey wagon in the first place, and you can read of my reactions in this game if you want the practical answer. Basically I wouldn't really comment on it at all (as was the case here) unless people start acting like Kyle and saying stuff like 'he claimed cop, so he must be scum', in which case I would write a really huge wall post detailing the ridiculous stance that the town is taking and do my best to whack some common sense into them. I haven't really used his claim to justify why he shouldn't be lynched either, because I don't believe that way of thinking is correct (I campaigned to lynch a claimed doctor in my last game). The important thing to look at would be the reactions to the claim I think. Unless you're asking if I was scum?

How would you expect newbscum to react in such a situation?

I don't have an answer to this question TBH. I don't know.

Also, I agree with Serial above. Hoopla/Nhammen is starting to look like a viable scumpair. I really want Hoopla lynched today, and disappointed at the lack of support on her wagon. @Serial, IIRC you've expressed that you'd rather let Kyle get lynched than jump on the Monkey wagon - may I ask the reasoning behind this?

[Moai Interceptor Cannons]

Also, what's with the IF THEN? That looks like trying to set up a quicklynch.

IF Hoopla flips scum, THEN you're next up for the lynch. That's how I interpreted it. There's no way Serial's setting up a quicklynch, because then Serial has to be scum, Hoopla has to be NOT scum, and the IF/THEN argument on you dissolves into pretty little butterflies. Or do you know that Hoopla will flip scum?

Moai Interceptor Cannons: are any of you going to vote Monkey today?

No not really. Now join the Hoopla wagon please?

[Moai Interceptor Cannons]

Sweet. Now to fuck around until deadline so we get a no lynch and Socrates can declare a kyle lynch.

/iWin

x
GUYS WAGON HOOPLA NOW NOW NOW
ALTERNATIVELY SOCRATES I WILL MARRY YOU IF YOU LYNCH HOOPLA

[Moai Interceptor Cannons]

I think gender probably needs to be updated if you're going to push that threat/bribe MIC...

DONE

[Moai Interceptor Cannons]

Okay guys, I've figured out who the scum are.



See this? The scumbags standing at the back trying to look all innocent and sad YET NOT HELPING TO CARRY OUR BELOVED EX-MAYOR'S COFFIN (I'm exempt because I'm actually a girl in disguise due to me and Socrates being lovers and my dad not wanting me to get near him but I really wanted to come to the funeral anyway and if any of you get a close look at me I might blow my cover). This is UNDENIABLE EVIDENCE. LET'S LYNCH THESE BASTARDS.

[Moai Interceptor Cannons]

Why does this make her more likely scum?

You're pushing 'too scummy to be scum' here. Hoopla was initially posting a whole lot of nothing, which I let her get away with due to her limited access. After she got back full access, her post was still a whole lot of pseudo-nothing, followed by a whole lot more of nothing accompanied by erratic shifts in stance. Hoopla's not scumhunting at all, I'm sure you've noted her stance of 'we're not likely to lynch scum today so let's not try at all'. While I see the point you're trying to make here, 'I wouldn't do that if I was scum in her place' is not the kind of reasoning I want to use to dismiss suspicions

ever

.

If you were scum, and a wagon happened that you have yet to take a side on went to a claim and that person claimed power, what would you do?

Obviously it's quite circumstantial, but I generally wouldn't change my stance from before the claim.

How about just on a gut level though? Would you be more surprised to see newbscum avoid a claimed power role like the plague, or to try and push such a wagon over the edge?

It depends on how 'newb' this newbscum is. If by 'newb' you mean 'doesn't really get how to optimally play the game', then I'd expect them to want to drive the wagon to a lynch. In fact I'd expect them to want to drive any non-scum wagon to a lynch. If they know enough to realise that 'looking town' is just as important as 'lynching town', then backing away from the wagon is the expected reaction. Well more like 'going with the majority of the town' actually. I DUNNO!

As long as Socrates doesn't change his mind and Nhammen keeps to his word of not voting Monkey, that last vote shouldn't materialise. In the meantime, HOOPLA INTERROGATION TIME. @Hoopla, if not for self-preservation (say you were the mayor), who would you want to lynch and why? Also, how convinced are you of Monkey's scumminess (and why)?

[Moai Interceptor Cannons]

As long as Socrates doesn't change his mind and Nhammen keeps to his word of not voting Monkey, that last vote shouldn't materialise.

Do you know something I don't? Because there are other people that could change votes too.

Reckoner wants Kyle lynched, he wouldn't. Serial wants Hoopla lynched but would prefer Kyle over Monkey, he wouldn't. I'm the same as Serial, I wouldn't. And Monkey obviously wouldn't. No, I don't think anyone else would change votes.

[Moai Interceptor Cannons]

Socrates, I'm starting to think you could be Hoopla and Nhammen's third scumbuddy.

I'll admit that I can't manufacture scum motivation for Hoopla's 375, but there's a point where cases are so bad it can't really be a serious attempt at scumhunting (otherwise

anything

can be passed off as scumhunting). It's a pathetic attempt at

looking

like she's trying to scumhunt IMO. Again, you're trying to justify a dangerous line a thinking that assumes everyone plays perfectly, when they really don't. Practically, I'm willing to bet that your line of thinking will be wrong more times than right. Hoopla is more scummy than Kyle IMO, Kyle just wants Monkey lynched whilst Hoopla has been all over the place.

You know if you really wanted the day to end that badly I'm sure everyone on the Hoopla wagon would've moved to Kyle, albeit reluctantly in my case.

[Moai Interceptor Cannons]

That's because there was still time to try get Hoopla lynched.

[Moai Interceptor Cannons]

SO I SUCK AT FINDING SCUM.

Also, I will be on V/LA (zero access) from when I wake up tomorrow until Wednesday. Going to sleep now.

[Moai Interceptor Cannons]

I was gonna suggest a massclaim myself.

I'm vanilla townie. I was thinking it was Danny over Kyle, thanks for making my choice easy.

But of course we should have multiple scum here, so Danny goes next.

[Moai Interceptor Cannons]

Damn, so we do have an SK. I was kinda hoping it'd be a vig, but a vig would've claimed.

Anyway, given that Kyle claimed tracker, I don't think he's the SK. Given that Kyle was eager to bus his scumbuddy (and claim tracker), I don't think he's alone. Given that Kyle is being defended by Charter, I think the remaining mafia are Kyle and Charter with Danny as the SK.

BUT as Kerrigan said, there seems to be a bit too many vanillas for four scum to be balanced, so I could be wrong entirely as I have been until now. Then again I'm by no means an expert on balance and balance speculation lost me my last game (Charter would know all about this), so I dunno.

Kyle is 100% scum at this point, and I will hammer (I think some of you forgot Kerrigan had a doublevote) just so you can all see this truth from my point of view.

Vote: kyle99

.

And *just in case* Danny tries to unclaim and reclaim vig sometime in the future using his post just now as a subtle breadcrumb ('flush a power role', 'unclaimed killing role'), note that Danny already put out a theory that Charter might be the SK, whereas if he was an vig he would know that there is no SK and that Charter was not the one responsible for the kills.

[Moai Interceptor Cannons]

And if Kyle flips mafia, the SK can kill you? If those are the terms, I gladly accept.

[Moai Interceptor Cannons]

LMAO SORRY CHARTER

Ya, okay.

Vote: Col.Cathart

. I leave it in your hands, Kerrigan.

I understand that you probably think I'm the likelier of the two to be scum, but if there's anything you want me to explain/answer then feel free to ask.

Oh, and Cathart, I'll just leave this picture here as a late Christmas present for you.

[Moai Interceptor Cannons]

Why did you not agree with the MonkeyMan lynch?

First of all, the entire case was based on Monkey's single post on page one, which whilst scummy did not remotely warrant a lynch at all. The rest consisted of Charter overinflating the case into something it wasn't IMO, and when Monkey did start acting really scummy I assumed it was because he was cracking under the unfair pressure that Charter was giving him.

Cathart, I challenge you to a game of Hangman.

[Moai Interceptor Cannons]

Nooope.

[Moai Interceptor Cannons]

[Moai Interceptor Cannons]

There's a Hangman variant that forbids you from picking vowels?! o_O

[Moai Interceptor Cannons]

I was out for most of today, going to sleep now. Will post properly tomorrow.

[Moai Interceptor Cannons]

"because SK is town so that means the other one is scum."

Although that really is the gist of it from my point of view, from your point of view it's not that simple so I understand why you want to see us make geniune cases. Bear in mind though that everything I could possibly come up with has already been confirmation biased, so instead of a 'case' it's more like 'here's my interpretation of Cathart as scum was thinking when he did this and that'.

What I can do is point you towards Cathart's D1 behaviour. Cathart was one of three-four people who thought of mayor self-promotion as scummy (see the bottom line of my post 71), and Socrates explained somewhere why this was indicative of scum mentality (then again you also did this, so it isn't a very reliable scumtell). In post 83 he took a very wishy washy stance on both scum so far (insincere bussing), and later both he and Kyle took an unnaturally hard stance in Monkey (tryhard bussing), even harder than Charter and Danny. Note how they both keep telling people to not believe Monkey's claim (so that they'd look when when Monkey flipped scum, which they knew would happen). Cathart's hard stance late D1 is pretty inconsistent with his soft stance early D1. Cathart has also been staying under the radar for pretty much all of D1 (I've explained this point in one of my posts somewhere), and hasn't been sincerely scumhunting. His early D1 play can be summed up with "I think Reck is scum, Monkey and Kyle could be scum" + *tumbleweed*, and his late D1 play can be summed up with "Monkey is definitely scum, Reck is scum, Kyle and Hoopla (the other major suspects) could be scum" + *tumbleweed*.

Both me and Cathart absent for most of D2, so I won't go into that. D3, Kerrigan, all I can say is that you should've kept your mouth shut until after the massclaim -- maybe then Cathart's reaction would've been more of a scumtell. There isn't really much of a case against Cathart TBH (mainly because he's been staying under the radar), so this is pretty much the extent of what I can give you. If you want me to try convince you why I'm not scum however (i.e. defend myself from whatever scummy things you may have found during your ISO read of me), I'll probably be better at doing that.

[Moai Interceptor Cannons]

- Attacks me with the crappy "don't want to be mayor = scummy" case.
- Goes after me for showing why I don't want to be mayor, but does not extend the same argument to SerialClergyman, who was doing a similar thing.

I think I've explained this before. I saw a discrepancy between answering the questionnaire and then saying you don't want to be mayor. You said you answered it because you thought it was a good idea, I still don't know what that means. If you didn't want to be mayor, you could've simply said you didn't want to be mayor or not said anything at all like most people. It's just that answering the questionnaire kind of indicates that you at least want to be considered for mayor, and then saying that you don't contradicts that. That's it really.

As for not going after Serial, I've also explained this before. There were several people who expressed interest in making Serial the mayor, the questionnaire was designed to show those people that there may be better candidates than himself. This was not the case with you - nobody expressed prior interest in making you the mayor, your answering of the questionnaire was entirely unprovoked. At the time, I saw no reason for you to answer the questionnaire other than wanting to be considered for mayor, which you denied, which I interpreted as scummy.

If true, it was scummy because it would be very advantageous for scum to have the mayor position, yet scum may have seen self-nomination as a scumtell like Monkey and Cathart (and you as well) did.

- Claimed MonkeyMan wasn't scum, and defended him for a large portion of the game.

I

thought

Monkey wasn't scum, but yes, this point is true and I can't argue against it.

- "This is funny because my arguments make near-perfect sense to me and I seem to be having a hard time getting you to understand. You see when I write all these words for you, my expected reaction is 'oh, I see', so it confuses me when you continually come up with these questions." Crap argument, if someone is asking questions about your argument, it obviously does not make sense to them.

Unless they're scum, of course. That line was kind of a retort to his claiming that my arguments were crap. At the time I wrote that I was bewildered as to why Nhammen kept asking me questions even though I believed I made my thoughts quite clear from answering his previous questions. I was beginning to think that maybe Nhammen was not genuinely confused but may have been scum trying to burn through me with a magnifying glass by relentlessly interrogating me. Also, there were two cases IIRC where Nhammen even answered his own questions in the same line he asked them (once regarding me attacking you but not Serial and the other regarding Serial being scumbuddies with Hoopla), which kind of indicated that he actually knew my arguments made sense but was trying to question them anyway.

[Moai Interceptor Cannons]

And there I was beginning to think you would lose before getting any letters right.

[Moai Interceptor Cannons]

[Moai Interceptor Cannons]

Good job, Kerrigan! Cathart, I had you pegged from page one (LOL JK). I think you would've won if Kyle hadn't done what he did. Note to self, leave scumhunting to the rest of the town. Good game, all!