Newbie 873 - Game Over.

[Jackabomb]

/confirm
/apologize for actions in newbie 726.
Curious. My third mod playing under is zorblag.

[Jackabomb]

Dimaba, a random vote doesn't really warrant an explanation.

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Currently, I'm finding a lot of people on the Foilist wagon suspicious, ironicly, not its starter. Michel, the only real tell I see in your post against foilist is the late confirm but most of the time, that's just RL. The foilist wagon(including dimaba) has grown far too fast for town comfort. Dimaba seems to be following the SE's/IC, even though foilist

is

an SE. Crimmy and McGriddle don't really have any excuse or justification as they present no reason whatsoever for their votes. Again, reason and information are the key components for us to win. By 'voting random' dimaba, I beleive he meant something along the lines of rolling a die or a machine random choice. Joke votes, what both McGriddle and Foilist have done, don't really fall into that category. As far as I can tell, the only thing foilist needs to explain is his late confirmation. As for my own conclusions, everyone on the foilist wagon except its creator is acting anti-town, but not quite scummy.

[Jackabomb]

EBWOP: McGriddle, start giving reasons for your accusations.

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and, have you come to realize no matter what anyone says, if it doesn't agree with what you say then they are suspicious?

I demand evidence to back this claim up. If you can't back it up, it's not worth my time.

no matter what I say someone would think I was lying,

I've never accused

anyone

of lying in this game yet. Again, please point out some evidence to back this up.

so how do you not know that everyone talking is a townie like myself I must add

I don't. Chances are though, the scum is indeed talking. You don't really look very town right now, untill you back up these ludacris claims of yours.

most people who voted for folist or whoever early where just going with the flow, but jack was hard at it that he wasn't mafia and that no one should vote him, everyone unvoted, and he is silent once again.

Going with the flow can be dangerous. In my "going hard", I have gone less hard than some of the more active players. I didn't even vote for anyone on the wagon, just said they shouldn't go so fast and whatnot. And excuuuuse me, if I have a school to go to, food to eat, family members to watch, books to read, and a bed I have to sleep in. My last post was only YESTERDAY! I haven't 'dissapeared'. I defy you, or anyone else, to prove any of your arguments valid. In fact, YOU, sir, haven't posted since confirmation. Speaking of silence...

[Jackabomb]

Awww...my cades drive isn't getting any attention? I'm still not happy with either mcgrill OR crimmy's excuses for thier bandwagon of foilist.

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why would you vote me, you vote for who you think is scum, not you votes on you,

Ummm...I'M NOT EVEN VOTING

ANYONE

YET!

that is pretty scummy, and what do you mean, as you say somewhere, that not everything is suspicious in one way to at least one person?

OMGUS votes are, indeed, scummy, but I'M NOT VOTING YOU! I have NEVER said anything like, "everything is suspiscious to at least one person". Quit your scummy misquoting.

I don't have to give you proof, read the game so far.

I HAVE read the game so far! And I've been participating a

whole

lot more than YOU have!

i'm staying with you, and nothing will change my vote, probably every round too, you will probably kill me during the night tho.

Being stubborn to good logic is often veiwed as scummy. Are you sure you want to say that you are? Now, please, quit wasting my time with half-brain arguments with

no

factual basis whatsoever.

I

, for one, have some scum to catch. Again, I defy you, or anyone else, to explain how in the world your actions are town, or at the very least, logical in a way, shape, or form.

Vote: Cades

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Damiba, I agree with brother. A townie doesn't really need to showcase his 'townieness'. Mafia try not to say as many words, but they do want to make them count for as many 'townie-points' as they can get. The more people think they are town, the greater their chance of victory. I also beleive that you should try to be more 'to the point', but that's the military father in me talking more likely than not.

[Jackabomb]

Actually, Mcgriddle's 'reason' for joining the cades wagon is this.

Unvote: Vote Cades

Obvious reason. Post number 76.

I haven't defended Cades at all. So if you think I am on his team you are sadly mistaken. I even threw him in front of the bus on accident lol.

I didn't see anything scummy about post 76.

Cades, my apologies for the misunderstanding. At the time of my saying, "I'm not voting you", I wasn't. I

then

decided to vote you. My primary reason for voting you is that you have refused to provide evidence for your accusations against me. You said that I said "everything is going to appear scummy to somebody" and "if you don't agree with what I'm saying, you're scum".

[Jackabomb]

Cades, I have asked you many times to support your arguments against me. Mcgriddle, if you want to get through this game alive, post valid reasons when you post. Saying 'it should be obvious' is a fallacy, a form of ad homonim or attack on the player, as it is called in the mafia scum wiki. I ask you, cades, to drop your vote on me or prove at least one of your arguments correct. I ask you, mcgriddle, to explain your vote. Maybe the threat of a lynch will motivate you sufficiently to tell me? If AtE is all your going on, I don't like it.

Unvote

Don't make me follow it up with, "Vote mcgriddle".(Not an actual vote!)

Mod: Can we get a vote count please?

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Sorry, cades. I forgot that you did unvote. I'll still want an explanation. Mcgriddle, who is voting for you that you say "L-2"? I only see cades.

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Sure. I think only one person is currently voting mcgrill, so I don't know why he thinks he's at L-2.

[Jackabomb]

*watches crimmy hammer when CSL just said not to*
Mcgrill, you have almost never given explanations for your votes untill after much pressure, and even then, they're pretty lame reasons. Your attitude of 'if you can't understand my super-vague, unspecific explanations, then too bad for you...' is distinctly and glaringly scummy. In fact, it's also mean. Cades, is english your first language?

[Jackabomb]

If you are saying I revenge voted you, please listen more carefully. I gave some

very

excellant reasons for voting you. If I were following you to make you look scummy, is it your fault? No. His 'following' has little to do with my scumness or lack thereof, unless you have other arguments.

[Jackabomb]

Regardless, we would like you to claim.

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Shall I hammer then?

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Mcgriddle has already claimed townie. I'm thinking if I should hammer.

[Jackabomb]

Jackabomb straps Mcgriddle into a random chair with strange wires. "This is an electric chair. Don't aske where I got it. Our corrupt town hall buys some strange things with our tax money. Hope you had a nice life"

Vote: McGriddle

[Jackabomb]

The only way to sound notscum is to sound town. It's fairly simple and you get the hang of it after a while. I must say, this game has had, so far, some of the quickest wagons and by far the quickest D1 I've ever seen.

[Jackabomb]

I don't really think this makes any member of the wagon scummier or less so. All the reasons people used on this wagon were rather valid, despite his town-ness.

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Vote: Zorblag

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...not that FOS's count for anything anyway. Honestly, I haven't really payed a shred of attention to a single FOS in this game, be it on me or anyone else. Unfortunatly, grades are rather bad right now and I've been restricted from computer access until further notice. Even if I can get a post in or time to read the thread once in a while, won't mean I'm back for good until I say I am.

[Jackabomb]

I'll try hard to post often enough and well enough to not ruin the game for anyone. I'd rather not replace if I can help it, but if this starts to get too hard to deal with, I won't spoil anyone's game by lurking.

As for my take on things, fear to vote isn't good, even to avoid a quicklynch. I don't know about you, but I think Mcgrill is the scummiest, with all his lurking...

[Jackabomb]

I beleive that foilist was the only one not aware of the current situation at the time of the hammer. Also, at the time that I posted, I had been reading through the previous posts. This made me feel like each post had come right after another like a building wave, if you will, against mcgrill. It is only logical that the suspense be finalized.

In hindsight, I realize that we might have gained more from an extended D1, but I kind of doubt it. What might we have gained? Most of the time, a townie claim isn't exactly going to save you. Rhetorical question: If you had been a doublevoter, how many of the other members of mcgrill's wagon would have hammered?

[Jackabomb]

I don't have an opinion on CSL one way or another. I guess I'm too involved in that incident to be comfortable making accusations. Do remember, however, that cades wasn't much help D1 either. I'm not sure he realizes that his "Oh, woe is me. I'm just a lowly peasant speaking out against the egomanic, power-hungry, arrogant dictators. I'm going to die for this statement, but look how brave I am to do it anyway. Anything worth my life to say MUST be true!", attitude is Appeal to Emotion. I'm not sure he realizes that it doesn't work, either.

[Jackabomb]

and I already had suspicions on you and Jack in the first place.

Groundless

suspicions, yes. How, might I ask, did you find it logical, immediately after two or three people made posts specifically condemning appeal to emotion, one of which explicitly defined what

kind

of appeal to emotion you were doing, to make a post containing the

exact same appeal to emotion

that several have condemned and I clearly defined? How much text-yelling does it take?

I bet you vote me now

See the above posts, if you please.

cause last time I voted jack and jack and csl immediately voted me.

Go check your facts. I voted you the next day in real life. That doesn't constitute 'immediate' in any way, shape, or form. Your initial post that voted me straight off* was followed by a string of posts by other members. I queried you on your vote of me. You responded, refusing to answer my questions. I voted you, refuting your arguments against me and giving my reasons quite clearly.

*Let it be noted that not once in the entire game has cades stood up for himself or defended his arguments made in this first post, #49.

Now, for my personal catch phrase when dealing with cades. "I defy you to prove those arguments you originally made."

[Jackabomb]

Why thank you for the compliment, crimmy. I'm glad to see you don't let your suspicions get in the way of your logic. *cough*-unlike SOMEBODY we know-*cough*

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Off topic: Have I ever said how awesome I think that sig is?

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I know that. That's why it's so awesome.

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The recurring ATE and endless voting without reason is making me think he's quite scummy right now. Michel, if he's newb-town enough to ignore repeated warnings like what we've given, he's newb-scum enough to do the same.

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Also, cades has a convenient habit of disappearing when we're talking badly about him. Then he reappears quite a few posts(or pages) later and easily generalizes everything we hit him with into one, misrepresented argumentative point which he then proceeds to refute with his special brand of clever-talk that generally tends to be nothing more than horrid grammar and one illogical, untrue fact repeated several times, making less and less sense each time.

[Jackabomb]

Saw your post, foilist. So, really, all we get from a cades lynch is a really annoying player dead and if he's scum, some town reads. What info can we stand to get from a CSL lynch?

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Despite how much I'd like to see cades dance the hangman's, if I'm reading correctly, we get more out of a CSL lynch, unless anyone else has a better lynch.

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True enough, but don't forget that cades has also been lurking and rarely provides good reason for his posts/votes.

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I'd like to hear from dimaba, michel, foilist, and cades. What are your opinions on a CSL lynch? Do you have a better scum candidate? Do you feel we still need to wait longer before lynching?

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May I assume then, that we are now voting to lynch?

[Jackabomb]

No, if you don't lynch on a MILO day, you don't lose.

Crumb, are you not willing to lynch CSL right now? Do you have a better idea for a lynch? Actually, just answer anything I asked in post 240.

[Jackabomb]

Tomorrow, we have lylo, assuming you are town... I know that.

[Jackabomb]

We aren't voting you yet, man. Don't get emo. We're waiting for dimaba and cades. While we're waiting, if you do die today, how would you like to die? Chair, skewer, cyanide?

[Jackabomb]

Then we are only waiting on dimaba.

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Well, I'm not going to make the same mistake as day 1, but I would like to hammer if we indeed lynch CSL.

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Dimaba, I think cades is the only one left to voice his opinion and I think we all know how that'll go.

[Jackabomb]

I'd reccomend giving people time to go over it and OK the lynch. Example=

OK: CSL

[Jackabomb]

If there is anyone against a CSL lynch or feels it should be delayed, speak out now.

I am still okay with it.

[Jackabomb]

Question to everyone: If CSL flipped town, who would your next scum candidate be? If he flipped scum? Same two questions for cades if CSL and crummy were convince us to lynch him instead.

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Jackabomb snatches the gun out of CSL's hand. He straps CSL to a rock. "Sorry, pal. I already called the killer vote. I would use the chair, but it turned out to be counterfeit. So, I'm going to stick this rock in the tar pit yonder and hope you sink quickly enough so that your screams don't wake me up tonight."

Vote: CSL

[Jackabomb]

You can't summon any rocks. You're stuck in a tar pit! I did in fact, call hammer vote earlier.

[Jackabomb]

So? It's still a hammer, it's just not the first hammer.

If trying to lynch mafia is this dangerous, we should have just paid that stupid swimming pool debt.

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Don't you think quickhammering like that is scummy? You'll probably be voted tomorrow. If you still want to help the town, tell us how cades is so guilty if you're town.

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In case anyone says that it's unfair to use arguments against a replacement, the only difference is that the replacement has a hard time defending themselves. The same arguments apply.

If you'd like to know cades posted only a few times. First, "I told you so. Jack and CSL are scum". Second, he voted CSL, giving his signature ATE. Third, brief explanation of his vote which didn't tell us anything new.

Total lurking to the point of replacement. Look, he shows up and dissappears. Crimmy, there really isn't anyone to blame for yesterday. CSL suicided.

[Jackabomb]

I have a pretty big scum read on cades for obvious reasons *snicker*. I have town reads on crimmy and foilist, leaving dimaba as the last possible scum, though he's done a grand job of blending in. Crimmy has a tendency to err on the side of caution, but that is better than being reckless. Foilist has been generally helpful to everyone. He's been pretty active and seems to scum-hunt hard, even though it hasn't been too successful.

[Jackabomb]

We've known it was F11. That's the standard for all newbie games.

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Crimmy, who are your scum suspects?

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Are you saying that you didn't want him killed because it would put suspiscion on me and CSL? What made you decide to protect michel?

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Would I be correct in saying that you don't really want a defense from me? The way your post is written seems only useful for racking up evidence without giving me a chance to explain. Most of those incidents, do indeed have an explanation.

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I hate to derail my own argument, but when I went back I stumbled onto this post by Foilist.

Hahahaha. The post you link us to is the wrong one.

[Jackabomb]

Kyiv, each of those instances was in a separate context. I'll start with the first: The vote we were referring to didn't require any

further

explanation.
2. Over defensive behavior: It wasn't over-defensive because I didn't feel threatened. It was annoyed. Cades was wasting everybody's time.
3. I asked permission to hammer because I didn't want to appear scummy. This hasn't really succeeded, however.
4. I hammered because I got said permission.
5. Claiming nothing gained from delayed hammer: When I referred to wave, I was talking about posts other than the ones I and CSL had made. In addition, I didn't realize that it was not yet the lynch wagon.
6. Vague stance: any stance I could have given would have been completely biased at that point.
7. Asking permission to hammer again: This time, I made it clear that I would wait for permission from multiple players before hammering.

If you call this over-defensive, I have good reason to be.

[Jackabomb]

Kyiv, don't count me as SE level. If I was SE level, I would have signed up

as

an SE.

Foilist, wouldn't that have to be a 1/6 chance during N1 and a 1/4 chance N2? I don't think you took the day lynches into account. It would still be a 1/24 chance.

[Jackabomb]

Dimaba, who was your N1 investigation?

I also think the

times

they were 'role-blocked' are curiously convenient. Look. Crimmy claims to be roleblocked night 2 when his target dies. He protected the experienced guy(the proper move for doc), but was roleblocked. How tragic.

[Jackabomb]

Crimmy, I find this odd. You say 'vote me, mafia wins if you do'. This is ATE. Also, you seem to forget that foilist is your scum suspect. That statement operates on the assumption that scum would quickly add on two votes, making three, thus hammer. Wait, if scum are adding on two

in addition

to his, he can't be scum now can he? Your logic hasn't held so well, crummy.

[Jackabomb]

I'm still under suspicion from crimmy and dimaba, I believe. You know kyiv's vote is the one that matters, why ask me to help vote? It'll only look like scum dog piling. If that is enough for crimmy and dimaba to get kyiv to lynch one of us instead, town loses.

[Jackabomb]

He said not to before we got the crimmy/dimaba vs jack/foil situation. Things changed. His vote doesn't really matter a whole lot unless he has "The Judge" on his side.

[Jackabomb]

First, kyiv is town, no matter who the scum is. Second, deja vu. Crimmy suddenly stops caring about the result. Third, listen to his wording, "nobody would buy it". Freudian slip?

[Jackabomb]

I assume crimmy is officially lurking until the endgame?

[Jackabomb]

Just because you can disprove some of his arguments against crimmy doesn't mean he's scum. Also, you completely ignored the 'crimmy discussion'.

Also, listen to dimaba and crimmy's wording. It's constantly a 'we have to convince him', 'get them to buy it'. Coincidence? I think not. Scum tell? Quite probably.

[Jackabomb]

Just because you can disprove some of his arguments against crimmy doesn't mean he's scum. Also, you completely ignored the 'crimmy discussion'.

Also, listen to dimaba and crimmy's wording. It's constantly a 'we have to convince him', 'get them to buy it'. Coincidence? I think not. Scum tell? Quite probably.

[Jackabomb]

Honestly, if cades hadn't abandoned the game, I think we could have won. If you guys could give more feedback, here's the quicktopic we used for night talk. http://www.quicktopic.com/43/H/u7JRnejDmNvqc

As you can see, our strategy in going into LYLO could only work if we didn't have any town pr's. If we hadn't based our whole strategy off of that, things might have been different.

[Jackabomb]

EBWOP: Now that the mafia is dead, how do you all plan on dealing with the trolls and your long lost brother? If you don't get it, check out Zorblag's flavor text in his first post.

[Jackabomb]

I think I'll hit two birds with one stone: poison the brother and feed him to the trolls.