Mini 886 - Popcorn Mafia - Game over!

[Zakeri]

Bogre is likely scum here... I wouldn't expect town to make that mistake, but scum might (because they've been thinking about picking the initial gunbearer).

I would imagine the opposite, what with scum needed to read and understand the rules that apply to them, while town doesn't.

I also think Val should keep her thoughts to herself as much as possible

This sounds like you're trying to move the entirety of the pressure onto the current gun bearer.

[Zakeri]

@Zakeri - The scum put pressure on Val when they made her gun bearer. My discussing the situation and trying to be helpful did not.

That actually avoids my point by changing the subject from "Gunbearer" to "Vala". I still believe town should have a significant say in who Vala shoots, and even thought it's her decision to take whenever she wants, I don't think telling her not to talk about how she wants to shoot will help that.

I'm dropping this point since we've already reached middle ground here:

Hmm yeah, I wasn't too clear on that, but I didn't mean literally until the post where she pulls the trigger.

@Zakeri: How aware are you of your own meta? Do you often change your playstyle to try to trip up people who would use your meta to determine your alignment?

I'm rarely aware of other people's metas, much less my own. Mine changes constantly based on how I feel and how interested I am in the game. My play style is fairly reactionary.

It shows in faster paced games (where one day is only three days long, etc.) where I once had a meta attack used against me because for one post, I had made a quote chain where I didn't respond to everything in chronological order, suggesting that I chose not to respond to something and then changed my mind later.

[Zakeri]

I don't have much to add except for the fact that I don't really buy into the whole "I know it was scummy, but I did it on purpose, so it's not a tell" Scene.

Not that the answer to the question really has anything to do with why I think he's scum. Pressing a falsified scumslip is why I think he's scum. Though the way he's responded to Sarags pressing makes me uncomfortable with not knowing his alignment.

Cut: Umm, I guess I'll go pick up my prod then >.>;

[Zakeri]

If we're lucky Bogre is scum trying to seem like a townie trying to get the gun. If we're unlucky Bogre is a townie who is playing against the town. Either way I want him dead as soon as possible.

Xyl's policy lynching takes a new low as he admits in thread that he would will the death of two confirmed townies just to teach one of them not to say something stupid.

Have you been listening? To anything?

I am not playing with a disregard for her life. In fact, I have so kindly warned her how she may preserve it.

Fortunately for us, Bogre is scum.

The only acceptable defense you can even use is "rite is scum." The only reason no one is accepting that either is because your evidence is the way he said something could be interpreted differently. It's obvious you're just trying to shift attention away from yourself with that move move.

[Zakeri]

I don't think Ortolan is a bad enough player to blatantly defend three people if he knew they were all scum. 'specially if there were only four scum. On the other hand, Ort's method of attacking DoS strikes me as poor.

"Do

we

know for sure that

we

are unable to shoot ourselves anyway?" [...] So all this post/paragraph is is a long and convoluted and self-conscious way of implying that he is town.

He instantly leaps to assumptions about what my reasons for suspecting him are (why would any townie do that?). How does he know that was my reason for suspecting him anyway? Guilty conscience about that self-conscious original post methinks.

Both of these look like vicious implants of thoughts into someone else's mouth. They're basically just gotcha games in the very sense of the word - "GOTCHA! You were trying to make yourself look like a townie by feigning concern for your play in a position only a townie could be in!" or "GOTCHA! You were trying to figure out why I suspected you, and you got it right, which must mean you knew you were doing something scummy even though I didn't call you out on it, A HA!"

Despite desperate proclamations to the opposite, Xyl's opinion is fallible. I'd say only about half of his scumlist is right by now, and I'm think it's the Bogre/Ort half right now because of this.

[Zakeri]

I have no problem with psycho analysis. I do have a problem with calling someone scum and then trying to find tiny cysts where you can substitute scummy thought process for carelessness of wording and then calling it psycho analysis.

[Zakeri]

It occurs to me that correct play as a townie is to encourage being shot,

lol, no.

I'll amend: correct play as a suspected townie.

lol, no. Again.

Correct play as town is to find scum and have the gunbearer shoot them instead.

Zakeria

I know the avatar confuses people, and I don't mind people mistaking me for a girl, but this is one step too far.

I think Drake shouldn't skip over parts of the thread.

it was something which he went out of his way to say, which has no meaning.

What makes you think it was "Out of his way" to say something like this?

Let me put it this way: How would you imagine he would have said what he said if he were town as oppose to if he were scum? Do you believe that there is a significant enough chance that he would have said "The gunbearer" instead of "We" if he were town? Enough to call him out as scum for it?

[Zakeri]

@Zakeri: Who do you want to receive the bullet?

Bogre is still top for me for trying to whip out fake scum tells early on. Ortolan is a little further behind since while he's voting on wifom, there's still a chance of being right while following the logic.

between Drake and Rite however, I can't really decide. They both have almost equal amounts of "trying-to-look-like-they're-helping-without-actually-doing-so", with the large difference to me being that Drake is slightly more unpleasant in attitude. between the two of them, it's likely there isn't a wrong answer.

[Zakeri]

I think Zakeri is lurking again.

I don't lurk. I just watch LPs

My top three have only slightly changed - Ort, Bogre, and Drake. Drake edged out over Rite mostly because rite had a replacement.

Also metaing based on one game isn't scummy in and of itself.

It's still bad play, dipping into a test sample of one pool for something as fickle as meta.

Zakeri style allusions which don't actually mean anything

I call slander until you actually pull up these "allusions" and describe how they don't mean anything. I believe I've tried my best to explain why I think your route of attack on DoS is poor and likely scum based.

Zakeri: Lurktastic.

I lurk equally in all games, no matter my alignment. More so if those games are running at the same time.

I agree on worrying about future gunbearers in that you really shouldn't let it affect your decision of who's scum or not. It's pretty much as bad as going straight for the Village Idiot day one. On a semi-related note, I would make an AWESOME gunbearer. (links to previously completed on-site game)

[Zakeri]

I call slander until you actually pull up these "allusions" and describe how they don't mean anything. I believe I've tried my best to explain why I think your route of attack on DoS is poor and likely scum based.

Remember the whole "gotcha" discussion where I said that "gotcha" attacks are the same things as psychological scum-tells, and therefore not scummy at all? I do. Were there any other points you raised against me? I don't believe so.

I remember that discussion as well. I don't know if it's because I'm not that good at wording my thoughts, but you ignored the point. The point being that you took a few things DoS had said imprinted a scummy line of thinking behind it, rather than the proper way of evaluating whether he would say something like that as town vs. as scum. You then somehow twisted my wording into saying you were psycho-analyzing him which isn't scummy. I agree it's not, but that's not what I was accusing you of.

I've seen people try to draw meta from 10 different games [and fail horribly]

If one person can draw meta from ten different games and fail, what makes you think you can draw from a single game and be on the ball?

A better counterpoint to that would be the whole practical use of scientific experimenting. In order to do a decent experiment, you must be able to test for one, single variable - the alignment - and see it's effect on a different, dependent variable - The player's meta. Not even counting other possible varables that affect meta, you have to run at least two experiments - the control group where all variables are natural, and the experemental group where the variable we want to switch is switched.

tl;dr version: It's impossible to tell a person's meta from a single game because it's impossible to know what changes based on alignment.

[Zakeri]

It looks like a contradiction to people who like to misrepresent other people's words, but it's not. Both of those quotes were meant to show that I don't do scummy active lurking, I just do regular inactive lurking.

The prior play between Rite and Drake is equal to me. Rite wins because he has someone still talking for him.

Also, No solid opinion on Huck as of yet. I agree with a lot of what he said in his catch up, but there's nothing in there that sticks out to me.