Mini 885 - Boom, Game Gutshot/Abandoned by Mod!

[5cvm]

/confirm

A_Squirrel is one member of the mafia.

[5cvm]

vote: rite

He's the second scum.

A_Squirrel and rite. That should be all of them.

[5cvm]

Only scum know scum right out the gate.

Good point. I should have thought of that.

Only scum know who other scum are.

What? You idiot!

unvote, vote: A_Squirrel

[5cvm]

unvote, vote: rite

[5cvm]

Hay guyz we're all freinds right? Except xvart.

Fun fact: random.org uses cosmic background radiation.

unvote, vote: xvart

Gogo bandwagon time.

[5cvm]

Oh really? Barely out of the gate and we have such an unconfirmable coincidence... You were going to vote for him, then you decided to go random, and random.org happened to give you the exact same number? I don't buy it for a second.

Xvart and TheButtonmen are the scum.

Question

Question

Question

question

wondering

Moar xvart votes.

[5cvm]

Heh I'm assuming you would have preferred Vote, Vote, Vote, vote, vote?

Correct.

Then clearly this means I must join the voting game and bus him!

Very thoughtful of you to vote for your scum buddy, I'm sure the town thanks you.

[5cvm]

The main argument against him seems to be bare assertion by 5cvm.

A very convincing assertion, I might add.

[5cvm]

I pointed out that only scum would be so certain about who scum are right out of the gate.

You did, and you were correct, but since I am, in fact, scum, it's not a very helpful point.

Also, you seem to have dropped Squirrel and Rite for xvart and Button way too quickly.

That's because I was trying to cover my tracks. Xvart and Button are my scumbuddies.

[5cvm]

Also, why are you outing your scumbuddies?

I don't know. It just seemed like the right thing to do considering how scummy they were acting.

[5cvm]

5cvm is "so brazenly scummy" that it makes you sick . . . and you're not voting him? Why not?

Ooh, oh, I know, I know!

[5cvm]

scum can have the worry that maybe they slipped somewhere and you know exactly where.

Scum slips are a myth.

Yes, but usually those tidbits are scumtells, not nulltells.

Smart.

Did you just claim scum? That is so anti-Town I don't even know how to say it.

I very much doubt it, scum wouldn't out their buddies like that, and if you're just a townie who's f'd in the head, you wouldn't know who scum is anyway.

Indicative of membership in a certain family organization. ';..;'

[5cvm]

I am convinced that 5cvm can only be a Jester. It's the only thing that makes any sort of sense.

I'm not a jester, I'm scum. However you thinking that does serve my purposes so cheers!

what is your objective?

Good question. My objective is to eliminate the town. However, I know that in order to not get lynched, I should play in the town's best interests. And since I know that Xvart and TheButtonmen are my scumbuddies and hitogoroshi is the informed SK, it is very easy to play in the town's best interest.

[5cvm]

Guys I think we should dial back our interaction with eachother a little because the more we interact the more obvious it becomes that we're scum.

[5cvm]

Sigh, take one step out of the norm and your fellow mafia see it as an opportunity to gain some town cred by bashing it.

[5cvm]

Well, aren't you guys just a fun-loving little bunch of townies? ^^

[5cvm]

Happy Thanksgiving folks. Since turkey and mafia are mutually exclusive, I haven't been able to add my amazing magic to this game lately.

TheButtonmen is town now because of his new avatar*

*not really.

[5cvm]

TheButtonmen (2) - hitogoroshi, xvart

unvote, vote: TheButtonmen

gogo bandwagon.

[5cvm]

Claiming scumbuddies is IMHO, a modkillable offense. Because, in the event of being scum, it would spoil the game and faking to break a rule should have the same punishment as breaking it. That said, the mod has no rules against it so it's fine.

These days you guys really have your extremely specific, well-aged, smelly cheese and desperately don't want anyone to move it, don't you!

Please note that it is in no way my intention to break rules, get mod killed, or in any way do anything other than win the game (for my team) (my team being the scum). The fact that I have to say that is very odd. xD

And to the inevitable "Why don't you answer my questions" post: Nevah. <3

One thing that stood out to me is when 5cvm first said that TheButtonMen and xvart were scum, then Button goes and votes xvart. Just going ahead and agreeing with 5cvm almost makes me think that Button is trying to clear himself in everyone elses eyes by voting someone who has been called out as scum.

Noted. Very interesting.

You're welcome. He

is

scum so you must be right about this. Go ahead and vote him now. <3

[5cvm]

Are you guys really falling for hitogoroshi's thing? ^^

Although, scum might feel bad about calling names... hm, do scum get meaner or nicer? Hm, I guess it depends on who it is.

Ok yeah hitscum if I didn't already know you were scum I would have just found you out go me.

Update: TheButtonmen, xvart, and hitorogoshi are scum. Wait did I already say that before? Oh, right, only two other scum... hit is informed SK I forgot.

Please play nice guys. Except for hitorogoshi he gets a pass.

[5cvm]

I gave you a pass, but you have gone above and beyond the call of duty.

If I didn't have role information indicating you are scum, you would be so totally towny right now. <3

Less inclined to go for a lynch on 5cvm now. His last post was very nice.

See, if he wasn't being sarcastic, this guy would understand!

Biggest thing to note here is that xvart has convieniently decreased his posting frequency now that he doesn't have to defend himself anymore. I should advise him to take a page out of TheButtonmen's book and post vague information and slightly helpful slightly directed questions.

[5cvm]

What a snot you are hitorogoshi! I recomend some sort of open-mind-inducing meditation or something. Not sure if such a thing exists... 0.o

Do I need to remind you that lynching me is

not

in your interests as scum?

Oh I forgot you are going the crazy route of pretending you're town. What a lot of work that must be.

CASE 1. 2 scum, no lynch d1. 11/12. 9/12. 7/12. 5/12, LYLO on d5.


CASE 2. 2 scum, misylnch d1. 10/12. 8/12. 6/12, LYLO d4 (or maybe d5, but I think under Boxman's majority lynch rules if the scum quick-paired on someone they'd win.)


CASE 3. 3 scum, no lynch d1. 11/12. 9/12. 7/12, LYLO on d4.


CASE 4. 3 scum, mislynch d1. 10/12, 8/12, LYLO d3 (again, could be d4 depending on the specifics of the majority lynch rules.)

From personal experience, I can tell you that this is the part where people vote you for "trying to use numbers to your benefit." Personally, I think that argument is stupid though.

A neutral lynch of hit is OK but I would recomend a scum lynch on TheButtonmen or xvart.

[5cvm]

I'm a bit surprised that ConfidAnon just took a

really

scummy place on my wagon.

[5cvm]

I'm thinking Milkshake made this alt for the sole purpose of screwing around as an anti-town jackass.

A) That's completely false
B) That wouldn't even be fun.
C) Who is milkshake

You just realized that? -_-

xP ^^

I guess ConfidAnon and Aranfan still make sense as town (because, you know, they

could

be town traitors) but they do surprise me. Actually, their recent actions make them make more sense as town than as scum when I squint real hard.

Anyone notice any posts from xvart or TheButtonmen lately? (PS yes I say this because lurker hunting is a scum's favorite pasttime. )

[5cvm]

Shall I compare thee to a summer's day?
Thou art more lovely and more temperate:
Rough winds do shake the darling buds of May,
And summer's lease hath all too short a date.

You're nuts, xvart, for acting like I'm comitting some huge, terrible, travesty.

Since you're scum, though, it's understandably witty play. Act like I bother you... get excused from making posts that don't say things other than how I should be modkilled... yes, I'm beginning to see how this would work very well. Hmm is there anybody else who would like to do something personally criticizable so I can get in on this and bash them for it? ^^

[5cvm]

With that said, I am finding Evilgorrilaz more and more scummy, with his sudden defense of 5cvm and lack of credible explanation for his defense. It is almost like he knows 5cvm is town and is trying to look like he is defending him now when his possible inevitable lynch is just around the corner.

I know you feel obliged to call people scum (so that you look like you're "scumhunting"), but you have this all wrong. I appreciate your use of my interaction with Evilgorrilaz to "hunt," and, yes, he did make a complete point-blank turnaround. But he's also been explaining himself. You should at least respond to the content of his explanation...

Post 301

That's not responding. If you want to look town, you should try to post logical stuff about what is going on, not "I read this as..." rewriting of people's posts and this...

When EvilGorillaz first said he made sense of 5cvm's post and then says it is just a reaction to others I didn't see the connection that was originally implied.

When he made this connection I didn't see the connection originally implied? Maybe this makes sense somehow but it's not clicking in

my

brain, at least.

EvilGorillaz didn't like me at first, and then decided what I was doing made sense. This is extremely towny. Scum (my scum buddies) aren't trying to make sense of me, they're simply taking the position they feel would benefit them most and sticking to it with all their might.

Thinking aranfan might be 5cvm scumbuddy

I can sort of see this, but sort of not... and he isn't... the only reason for you to think this would be a read, and when I go into iso to do my own read, that's not how it seems to me.

[5cvm]

5cvm is being willfully anti-town. Think about those words. He is. deliberately. acting against. the best interests. of the town.

For the sake of other people (since I'm pretty sure hitorogoshi is going to keep on doing what he's doing no matter what- he looks better that way), I should also comment on hitorogoshi.

He seems to think I could be either town or scum. Yet, somehow, he seems to think that if I was town, I would act against the town? What, does he think I would vote for someone and intentionally try to lose? That is madness. Or, at the very least, it's assuming I'm mad, a slightly mad act in itself, since I'm pretty sure I'm not.

[5cvm]

The town can all join me on an Xvart wagon! It'll be fun!

unvote, vote: xvart

TheButtonmen, you can join me too.

PS Don't you hate it when people split up what they have to say into a bunch of different posts?

[5cvm]

claimed scum every now and then

Wait, HP, you seem to be under the impression that I'm claiming town now. While I understand this impression (I mean, with my astounding play, how could I be anything but town?), I can't change what's in my role PM.

---

You try. That's why you're on my town list.

I understand this opinion, but I disagree with its surface meaning. I understand that somebody could play with that as their little mantra: People who try are town. However, it can be a severely misguided creed.

You underestimate scum. They can't scumhunt? Of course they can. "Scumhunting," the type that happens on day 1 with zero information, is painfully innacurate, scum can do it just as well as town can. If they hit their scum buddy, fine, it's "bussing," if they hit town, great, maybe people will follow onto the mislynch.

"But scum know who scum is so they'll be biased the whole time!"

Two things: First, we all have a little switch in our brains which lets us figure out what we

would

think if we didn't already know. It's part of what makes us humans smarter than lizards. Second, even if scum leaves that switch off and is completely controlled by who they already know is scum, they can still come up with reasons just as valid as the reasons town players provide. I'm happy to say that this could concievably change with alot of good players, but you've played and read games on MS just as well as I have, and you know that "scumhunting" ends up being "why I don't like this person" or "why this person was wrong about X" much more often than "why this person is scum."

"Fine, they can direct themselves at whomever they wish. But they won't have any motivation, hence 'people who try are scum.'"

Unless I'm overestimating the intelligence of your average mafiascummer, that's the first thing they think of is "In order to look town, I have to look like I'm really trying to help the town win." The solution? Well, it's easy to quote parts of people's posts and say snotty things back at them. You can even make it last for hundreds and hundreds of words if need be. If experience is any guide, that is one easy way to satisfy the "People who try are town" creed. It shouldn't be You can't let it be. Perhaps, knowing that, they move on to honest argument. This is where the switch comes in to play. Most people are significantly smarter than a lizard, and have a fairly reliable switch.

Honest

arguement doesn't tend to get far enough on this board for anyone's dishonest-honest argument skills to be significantly tested. Even if or when it does, there is a large grey area in which it is very hard to tell whether someone is arguing honestly dishonestly, considering we are using text. On a message board. No micro-expressions or nervous ticks here.

---

You can't say this with a straight face.

Wait,

if

I was town, do

you

think I'd intentionally try to lose? Maybe I need to seriously reevaluate the amount of faith people have in other players of mafia.

[5cvm]

Post 310 is an example of hitorogoshi's dishonest honest arguing skills being tested.

This

Not every illogical thing is a scumtell, and to say 'X doesn't make sense, ergo the player who said it is scum' is just lazy.

shows that he's a very smart guy, but this

But all the same, while I am not moving my vote from 5cvm today, I can still look at the other players.

and this

the case that 5cvm is pro town, something that is pretty damn ridiculous.

shows him dismissing or avoiding arguments that he doesn't want to get in to because he'd have to be dishonest.

This by the way is quite true:

I can't think of any situation wherein Gorrilaz is scum, 5cvm is town, and this is a scumtell. What possible reason would a scum have to support a policy lynch on a townie, and then change their mind without warning?

But isn't that good reason that Gorrilaz is town?

[5cvm]

While I'm on the topic...

D1 is Read-day... We read individuals. Now, we must lynch the individual wich we think is more probably scum but never allow people to remain a complete null tell for the whole day. We need to know what everyone thinks about a big number of issues.

You're quite right, day 1 is read day.

But hiding is not at all automatically indicative of mafia membership (maybe he/she just has a lab report due friday...) and "scumhunting" is by no means the ultimate town tell. See part of my philosophical waxing above.

think that scumteam guessing might come near Lylo

Personally, when taking reads of alignment, I don't mind looking for interaction between scumbuddies. Sometimes it can be the most revealing thing. Maybe you think that scum interactions are not revealing. It's difficult to say who is right. I think, perhaps, precisely how you take your reads (and perhaps how accurate your reads are) comes down to personal intuition. Needless to say, no method is very accurate. You just hope that, when combined, the town's scum reads are strongest on actual scum.

As an example of the type of read that I really like, I'm going to quote DrippingGoofball from a game I just finished.

I'm been scum many, many times, and been part of a large number of scum teams. I know that no scum in their right mind would bulldoze into the game on what, page 1? the way Psycho did. It's a totally townie action. He doesn't care if he sounds like he's rolefishing or some such on his first or second post. I don't think he's experienced enough to fake it; in fact, I don't believe anyone is.

Now I don't expect anyone but me to give credence to this sort of experience-based "logic."

I, however, swear by it.

She even had to qualify herself, because she knew it wasn't the "ordinary" thing.

But she cought 2 out of 3 scum very early on. Quite impressive.

[5cvm]

Nope! Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence. What I'm saying is that the reasons people are offering to suspect Gorrilaz (and Aran) as scum are contingent on you being scum, not by any stretch that gorrilaz that is town.

Yeah my bad I realized after I posted that didn't exactly understand that sentence correctly. (Although what was that little catch phrase aboout absences and evidence? ^^ )

[5cvm]

If HP's "people who try are town," is to be taken with great weight, Aranfan is definitely the informed SK instead of hitorogoshi.

while Button is pinging my scumdar, it isn't hard enough for me to actually vote him.

tbh I have only been keeping track of 5cvm recently

Well that's, like, the biggest mistake ever. Unless you really do just want to vote everyone on my wagon. In which case, awesome. Xvart might get on my wagon soon, you can vote him then!

[5cvm]

Perhaps oddly, I read boxman's post here before my PM!

I dunno, what's up guys? EG, you going to vote xvart?

hitorogoshi's complete lack of moderation or temperation (is that a word?) is really quite remarkable.

[5cvm]

Guys, get over me. Lynch someone. Preferably xvart. Xvart and TheButtonmen are still the scum. Aranfan and especially Scott Brosius have been behaving very badly. Especially Scott Brosius. But who am I to judge? Behaving badly doesn't make you scum, anyway (except when it does.) <-- yeah I know I'm super helpful-profound.

he's basically posting cats, except they're offensive lolcats.

[5cvm]

confid/arafan are the ones likely to be scum

Fairly decent choices.

[5cvm]

Scvm hasn't posted in like 5 days. I'd almost prefer a replacement at this point.

Nono, keep going. You're doing great. I especially like the part involving lynching hito. Except you should probably respond to this point:

What the hell? No I don't. Me not thinking that is what you're calling the scummiest thing about pushing a policy lynch.

But hito,

You are not voting 5cvm. Why not?

Because he thinks you are scum. He thinks I could go either way. I think (actually know) that your "not caring" about my alignment goes a long way toward explaining some things about

your

alignment. :O

[5cvm]

Aranfan is not my absolute top pick, but he's better than evilgorrilaz. I will vote him.

L-1 alert.

Claim request.

unvote, vote: aranfan

[5cvm]

I'd like an explanation regarding why you thought he was a better pick than EG.

That would be because EG is town.

(Also I've mentioned aranfan might be scum a couple times.)

And no, you're not getting who the other scum is out of me.

I've seen people (raekuul) do this intentionally to try to mislead the town.

(But what he means is... me, obviously, and then his remaining partner XVART is the name you won't get out of him. )

His partner is Xvart, for the record.

Okay then. I'm assuming it is okay to hammer now?

Unvote: Evilgorillaz
Vote: Aranfan

xvart.

[5cvm]

Hey, nice work, I'm impressed with that scum kill on Civil Scum.

I'm betting on ChiboSempai or Xvart for scum, and betting pretty darn heavily on hitogoroshi being the SK.

[5cvm]

I'm such an idiot.

a SK, like Chibo

Or hit.