Mafia 103 - Ktown Mafia (Game Over)

[Katniss]

/confirm

[Katniss]

Katniss - What do you think about this game so far? Do you think we are almost ready to start discussing seriously? When would you like to begin discussing seriously?

These Mafia games are pretty fun. I don't think we are almost ready to start discussing seriously, that part makes people enjoy the beginning part of the game more, so I'd let folks get that joking part out of their system, and eventually serious discussion comes out of it. I usually withold my vote until the joking phase is over.

[Katniss]

@Kat - What specifically do you consider the end of the random stage?

I'd say, when people start getting tired of the RVS, or start giving more serious theories. Like so:

Right now, I'm looking at Torqez and Crueknight. They both voted for Furry. Both were bandwagon votes.

I think Solemn J might have been oddly accurate with the Crueknight "random WAGON" post, even if Solemn J wasn't serious. Then all of a sudden CK proves SJ's:

No, he would have RVSed someone else, someone w/ mre votes if he erally wanted to wagon.

post, by switching from voting J-Fox, to the person with more votes (Furry) after Mr. Squirrel and Torqez voted, raising the votes to 3, being tied with Haylen. Then as if following Torqez's lead (if they are both mafia) added his vote, causing Furry to be the top vote with 4 votes. So yes, now it looks CK really is bandwagoning.

Not that bandwagoning is automatically a scum sign, but he has hopped on to two so far, which isn't really "random." And it's all I got to work with right now.

As for Torqez, his vote on Furry, was both a Bandwagon and OMGUS Vote. Again, Bandwagon votes, aren't an automatic scum sign, but it's all I got to work from right now.

[Katniss]

EBWOP

I almost forgot to

FoS: CrueKnight & Torqez

Help me out, respond carefully, if you're innocent, prove me wrong!

[Katniss]

Wickedestjr: Just to reiterate, what Mr. Squirrel said. Really, what is with all these questions. Alot of them, are basically noise posts, that aren't very useful in rooting out scum, and have no real effect on the game. Maybe it's your attempt to appear as if you are helping out the town, by posting all these (albeit: filler) questions. I'll give you the benefit of the doubt, that you are merely trying to help end the RVS, and get some kind of read on everyone.

I'm going to answer the questions that are ueseful for the game, rather than the ones that ask (What would you do if:

X

happened?)

Right now, I'm looking at Torqez and Crueknight. They both voted for Furry. Both were bandwagon votes.

How do you know they were bandwagon votes?

Bandwagon:

Several Votes on the same player to try to Lynch them or force them to roleclaim; especially used if the votes come in quick succession and without independent reasons.

What is it then if it isn't bandwagoning? Torqez and Crueknight both voted the same player, in quick succession without independent reasons. The only other possible explanation I can think of, is that the votes are attributed to a 'rookie mistake' as I've seen happen in a couple games before.

Not that bandwagoning is automatically a scum sign, but he has hopped on to two so far, which isn't really "random." And it's all I got to work with right now.

As for Torqez, his vote on Furry, was both a Bandwagon and OMGUS Vote. Again, Bandwagon votes, aren't an automatic scum sign, but it's all I got to work from right now.

What is wrong with bandwagoning? Also, why don't you vote for them if it's the best thing you've got?

Sorry for the long post. They will get shorter once we are out of the RVS. Consider that additional motivation to get us out of the RVS.

Nothing is necessarily 'wrong' with bandwagoning, but mafia do use that as a tactic to pile up votes on a person, for a quick lynch. On the other hand, as seen in this day 1 it appears to be a good thing, because it can start up more serious discussion.

I didn't vote, because there are

two

options I had to pick between. I'm also giving them a chance to defend themselves, so I can get an accurate read, before using my vote.

[Katniss]

Wow. You actually made up stuff there Kat. :p I was surprised, because I had no idea what the votes were.

I was going to random vote you but decided not to.

Damn I hate being in the spotlight in the beginning all the time.

I created a theory based off of what I've read, not stuff I've made up, without a basis. And unfortunately, you were one of those that I had some info to create a theory off of. Sorry it seems that you're in the spotlight but we got to start somewhere, eh? Well how about this: What do you think of Torqez? Or any other player so far?

[Katniss]

What is it then if it isn't bandwagoning? Torqez and Crueknight both voted the same player, in quick succession without independent reasons. The only other possible explanation I can think of, is that the votes are attributed to a 'rookie mistake' as I've seen happen in a couple games before.

Let me rephrase that question. Do you think CK and Torqez were deliberately trying to help a bandwagon or were just randomly voting?

Both voted on one person, Furry, who hasn't done anything to warrant a vote yet. The votes boosted Furry who already had a couple votes, to be the top person for a lynch. It doesn't seem very random, for two people to happen, to randomly vote on the same person, with that person also being the top vote getter.

I've said this already, but the only possible reason I can think of, is the rookie mistake vote, which gets innocent newer players lynched on day 1.

Though CK did unvote Furry, I see that malpascp, has also added his vote to the Furry train.

I'm also giving them a chance to defend themselves, so I can get an accurate read, before using my vote.

Why? You are allowed to vote and unvote as much as you want. Wouldn't you get a better read by pressuring them with a vote before they answer?

What is the point of the FoS if you can't use it? I also, repeat, I had

two

people I had to vote for; Torqez and CK, and now I have another one added to that list, malpascp. I had to choose between them, and at the same time, I don't feel too strongly on anyone of the three in particular just yet.

Wickedest, some of your questions right now, on people who haven't done anything suspicious, seem like a distraction, to keep from actual scumhunting. This in itself seems suspicious. I can see the build-up you are using to discredit and make people like myself seem scummy, in my case the fact that I FoS people instead of voting on someone. People don't like the FoS in this thread, for some reason, so fine I'll go with that plan, and

VOTE: Wickedestjr.

For reasons stated.

[Katniss]

@Kat - Bandwagoning is town. If it was a quicklynch attempt then its scummy. There needs to be a few wagons for the game to get going.

Yes, I can see and understand that.
Which is part of the reason why I didn't feel too strongly on the people earlier, and only FoS'd them. It was just something to work off of, as I've said before, and it seems that my theory post, did help get the game going, thanks to the few wagons, otherwise I'd have nothing much to work off of. So yes, I agree with you on that.

[Katniss]

This is interesting, to say the least. My other posts, from earlier, was in a similar vein to Mr. Squirrel, but I'm keeping an open mind on situations, and am going to retract, my vote on you Wickedestjr. So

Unvote.

You seem to be on track of, well I'm not sure where you're going with your strategy, but maybe it isn't mafia like after all. I still hold by how I answered your questions of my earlier, posts, except the part where I voted for you, which is possibly a mistake now. Because to be honest, those recent ones you asked me, (not the original ones) did have an effect on the current gameplay, as I realize now, after reading your response to Mr. Squirrel. So maybe, I was just too hasty to vote for you right now.

[Katniss]

I would like to see some final conclusions from Kat pretty soon.

Hm. I am still leaning a little bit on wickedestjr, but he has responded very reasonably in defending his actions. To answer his question, I probably couldn't think of a question right off the bat, so no.

I put my earlier theory, on people stacking votes against Furry earlier, but that seems to have been discredited. It's almost over with now though as votes for Furry, are going down.
Really, I have no idea who to vote for just yet.

[Katniss]

Hm.

I am still leaning a little bit on wickedestjr

, but he has responded very reasonably in defending his actions.

To answer his question, I probably couldn't think of a question right off the bat, so no

.

FoS: Katniss

What are your reasons for finding me suspcious still then? Earlier you said it was because you didn't like the questions I was asking, yet, now you say you couldn't think of any better questions for me to have asked.

*sigh*

Yes,

earlier

I said I didnt like your questions, but that changed

later

. It was

later

that you gave good responses as to why you had made those questions, and I ended up thinking they were very reasonable, so looking back on it I figured that I may have been wrong about you

earlier

and as a result, I unvoted you, and thought of you as less suspicious. That 'little bit' part of my post was basically just my gut left over suspicions of you. As I said, it was only a 'little bit', so I wasn't feeling very strong in my suspicion against you.

Now I answer your question, and you twist it around to make me look scummy. To explain myself, I couldn't think of a question right off the bat, as in right now, because it's difficult to think of a question, when you aren't "in the moment" at the time, you had asked yours, then.

===

I guess, I'll do a quick lookback at your questions...

I'm reading now, and I see that some of your questions earlier were "what would you do if

X

happened?" About my playstyle, skill, and how I would handle the RVS stage and everyone joking. I viewed these questions as, more of a distraction, that didn't really have much use in helping find mafia.

I then, as I've posted earlier, only answered questions, questioning my theory on certain people who might be scum. Now

those

were somewhat better questions that could help decide if those people were or were not mafia.

Then you explained, later, that you were really just using these questions to get reads on everyone you were asking the questions to. Which, again, was a very resonable answer. I believed you.

===

Now I'm starting to see things a bit differently again. Your question of "What questions I would ask" was another question that doesn't help contribute in searching for mafia, which I ended up, answering anyway, just for the sake of it, which I answered honestly as I could. I thought, it would be the end of that, but apparently not. Instead I get FoS'd for it. In retrospect, it looks that it may have been a set-up, designed to twist any answer I would have given to make me look scummy. Or if not, (I'm basing this off of patterns I'm seeing in your interactions with me and other people) more questions would be asked, about the answers, leading on a never-ending back and forth question/answer debate, leading to nowhere, or until someone makes a mistake of saying something, that you could use against them.

Trying to get reads on people with a few decent questions is one thing, but sending a never ending barrage of questions to people (It's kind of difficult for someone, not to focus their attention on you when you keep doing this), some even if answered don't contribute much to the game, is another thing. It makes it look like you aren't really trying to get reads on people, but are really trying to bait people with nonstop questions, until someone bites, and they finally respond to one of the questions in a way, that can be used to make those look like mafia.

Maybe, I should have never taken the bait, it taste like scum.

[Katniss]

Sorry for not being around. I was very much busy, but I'm back.

Wickedest, I keep going back and forth on you it's weird. Sometimes you look suspicious, sometimes not. I think right now, after reviewing the thread, of recent happenings, you are starting to look legit in looking for mafia. Your playstyle reminds me of another person I played with before, who happened to be town. I'm going to say you are innocent now.
I don't know what to say on Mr. Squirrels vote on you, to be honest. Perhaps we just had similar minds in thinking at the time, about you maybe trying to set people up, but that's gone for me now.

I am actually surprised with the train of crueknight, but then again, the reasonings have been alright. He was actually my first person I had my FoS on in this game. So I'm actually leaning on his direction right now, but still, I'm very picky and indecisive right now. To vote or not to vote. Err.. I'll think about it.

[Katniss]

I decided, to

Vote: Crueknight

, due to several cases brought against him, and my earlier suspicions/case against

I am still not nearly confident as I would like and I really hope I'm doing the right thing here.

[Katniss]

EBWOP, sorry typo:

"due to several cases brought against him, and my earlier suspicions/case against"

him.

It's a little quirk I have that I have to fix obvious typos I make.

[Katniss]

Ok. I'll bite and answer these questions, hopefully to prove I am not mafia.

@Katniss - What do you think of my vote for Mr. Squirrel?

You voted on him for these two reasons:

"Also, I find it funny how you complain about how bad my questions are and how they don't help to get us out of the RVS, yet you aren't even helping to get us out of the RVS.

Also, I find it funny how you complained about my questions possibly distracting people from scummy things that other people do, yet have focused your whole attention on me, so you obviously aren't concerned about what other people are doing. "

I pretty much disagreed with you on that. I had a similar mindset on you back then, with the spitfire questions you were giving. Note, just because I am agreeing with someone doesn't mean I am aligned with them. I am not aligned with Squirrel, other than if he is also a townie. I hope this isn't leading to a mafia connection between the two of us.

Looking back on it, I am thinking your vote was a pressure vote, to try and accurate read on him.

Which reasoning do you agree with?

Well, it was mostly due to people saying his reasonings of voting for someone saying simply "It was a pressure vote" was a pretty bad reasoning in defending himself. Also someone pointed out his odd posts.

I know, I know, it's not a very good case, but it added to my earlier suspicions on him. Darn now I feel even more uncomfortable with my votes. I feel like unvoting now, but that leads to your next statement.

Also IGMEO Katniss. His wishi-washiness is a bit too much for my liking. Also, there is something else I noticed, but I'm waiting for his next post.

People made it clear to me that I can vote and unvote someone at any time, especially since votes apply more pressure than a FoS, so that's what I am doing. Apparantley using FoS wasn't a good thing, when I used it earlier.

I like to use the FoS, because I didn't want to appear as if I was being too wishy washy. That way if my mind changes on a player, then I don't look suspicious by voting or unvoting too much. My mind changes often in this game, like when I feel I am not too sure on someone, or if a person's posts were good enough to change my mind for the better, or fishy enough to change my mind for the worse. This is what happened for me, for you.

Something else you noticed..? Well I hope I'm not strengthening that if it's anything negative. =(

Which do you think benefits the town more, not voting in the RVS, or voting in the RVS? (and don't say that the two are equal). Also, if everybody withheld their random votes, what do you think would happen?

Also, Katniss, how much mafia experience do you have?

Okay. These last couple of questions, I saw earlier, as not very helpful, especially now, since we are past the RVS, so it doesn't matter, but I'll answer them to get them out of the way.

Voting in the RVS is more useful, it helps get people to have a starting point in the game. If everyone with-held their votes, we wouldn't be going anywhere. I guess it's just my playstyle to do that though, hoping others would start the ball rolling instead.

Experience. I'd like to think I have a basic understanding of this game. I played a few mafia games online. In RL too, but that's completely different to online. Not too much experience really, since I started playing this year. This is the first I'm playing on this website.

I don't know where you're going with this wicked, but there.

===

Also I heard something about smilies. You can't use smilies now, because they make you suspicious? What the heck? you can't do alot in this game with the FoS shunning and now the "hiding behind smilies" I really like smilies, and a bit of joking around, because it helps lighten the mood, and making me a bit happier, that it's only a game, instead of getting me annoyed with things being said. Now you take that away from me too. That sucks.

[Katniss]

Yes, I did get a bit defensive. I recieved a IGMEO/FoS message, after all, which means people think I am scummy, and I didn't want people to think that. I see now, maybe that was the wrong choice of words to use.

Scott, I said voting in the RVS is useful, I didn't say anything about jumping bandwagons being the useful part in that post. You did make a good point about it being useful in it's own way in stimulating discussion. But can't mafia also use the bandwagoning technique to disguise their votes on a person? Or am I wrong with that idea as well.

[Katniss]

I'm gonna read thread/respond later, but right now I'm gonna withdraw my vote on crueknight. I wasn't feeling too sure about that in the first place, so

unvote

.

[Katniss]

Hi guys. I'm sorry for not being around.

I read a bit over what has been posted recently, and I've missed alot. I notice one thing about people saying, I am a newb. Which is, I've come to the conclusion is true. I am just so, not used to the playstyle people have on this official mafia scum forum, compared to playing on my other forums.

I took off my vote on CK, because I thought I had a decent reason to vote for him, because of what I thought was a bandwagon he jumped onto, but then it is shown by many here, that bandwagons, aren't really a bad thing, so I withdrew the vote.