Newbie 841 - Game over!

[Starbuck]

Hey guys, just checking in.

It's nice to see some new faces!

I'm at work currently, but I'll be catching up later tonight.

[Starbuck]

My analysis is in work. I replaced into two games at the same time so it's kinda kicking me in the ass, but I will get the first part of my analysis up tonight for you guys. Apologies for the delay.

[Starbuck]

Sorry for my delay, I have had military watch and crap all weekend and was installing Windows 7 today.



Starting on Page 1


So reading from the alive and dead, it's plain to see that we are in the 1 Mafia Goon, 1 Mafia Roleblocker, 1 Sane Cop, 1 Sane Doctor, 5 Townies setup.

On my predecessor

I honestly think OMGl's FOS'ing isn't terribly scummy. It doesn't strike as super pro-town, I think it's just a null tell personally.

ronnie's right on par with me about this. I don't think it's a bad thing to FOS.

I don't have an issue with her Post 80 either. I'm definitely feeling what she said about T-chan and about Pablo. Altough, I didn't really feel that what he said was WIFOM.

I think ronnie and I were separated at birth because she hits the nail on the head in Post 115. I seriously don't even feel like his "mistake" was even part of being Newbie. I think scum saw an opportunity and ran with it. It rather saddens me that in the Newbie Queue lately that the Newbies aren't really being orientated, which is the whole point of the Newbie Queue.

On Tororingu-chan

I'm not bandwagoning~! I just love wagons~~~ <3

Radio Flyers?

Sorry, it had to be said. =P



T-chan seems extremely concerned about bandwagoning in just her first few posts.

I was just reminding everyone to pay attention to the number on votes on people. L-2 isn't close to a lynch yet...

How so? L-2 is EXTREMELY close to a lynch.

I'd like to mention that L-2 isn't really close to a lynch -- you'd need both scum to jump on the wagon (not the cleverest of scum strategies) or two really clueless townies~~ I've actually seen the latter before and someone was quicklynched page one~! Town lost that game~

So the fact that 3 other people are already voting you (cases to be had or not) makes no difference to you? Hmm, interesting.

On the contrary, wagoning in the RVS is GREAT~~~!! It gets the ball rolling much faster!

You say this, but just earlier you say that you don't like quicklynches. Wouldn't a wagon in RVS at some point lead to a quicklynch?

A wussy way of spreading suspicions around without actually voting~~~~ v_v I don't like them and I won't use them.... I think people should put their money where they mouth is and VOTE if they find people so freaking suspicious!!!!

I disagree with this because you can have more than one suspicion because everyone knows that in a game there is more than one scum.


T-chan starts asking questions and get the game moving along. Although, I'm not quite sure if I like the direction that she took those questions.

@Mafia_failure:

I also find people who FoS suspicious unless they have two people to choose which in this case is what OMGLyncher did.

Did you or did you not find OMGLyncher's FoS's suspicious? o_O Why would it be less scummy if there are "two people to choose from"...? @_@;; I'm a little confused by your reasoning..... >_<

I'm not sure if you were asking this question to try and get the newbies brains working or not. It very well seems to me that Mafia_failure did state what you wanted to know. As someone who stated that they are very experienced with this game, I'm quite surprised by this.

Post 63 gives me the impression of being very overeager, but moreso in a scummy way than a townie way. Like "I'm ready to lynch anyone, as long as it's not me!"

I never thought it was beneficial for any player, scum or town, to claim a town-alignment... v_v;; You prove your townie-ness by your play, not by saying that you are one~~

Not always. Most people (once they have been around the MS block once or twice) normally get proved townie by their meta.

Eh... Pablo's last post, which went along the lines of:
"Hey you townies, you can't trust me just because I'm the IC, I'm only here to win the game

for the town.

" strikes me as a very odd and contradictory sort of comment to me.... o_O;; Is it just me???

What were you thinking when you wrote that, Pablo?? @_@;;;

"Hey townies, try to not look at my IC status like it's anything special, I'm townie and trying to win with you. If you're scum, you can screw off."

Yes.

How is it contradictory? You're reaching hard, and you know it.

I also feel a bit of reaching here.


I'm not liking T-chan's reasoning for voting OMGL in Post 84. OMGL is a brand new player, and with yourself being so experienced, I would expect you to show or say why scum are the ones that normally lurk and maybe explaining what ad hominem means. When OMGL rebukes the vote in Post 95, T-chan seems to get a bit overdefensive in her reply. The thing that bothers me the most is that T-chan harps on OMGL about his inactivity, but at this point, there are others who have been more inactive than he has been. You definitely seem to be grasping for straws with this argument.


Definitely not liking you answering for other people, for example:

@Pablo: People are watching you because you seem experienced, and that scares them.

On PaltryExcuse

I like how he tries to start moving the game out of RVS by asking questions in Post 24 and Post 83.

I disagree with the following:

rstly, OMGLyncher, probably because he is the only one who has a case laid out against him and also the fact that he seems to no longer post. He has admittedly lurked, and overall this behaviour makes him look scummy.

I definitely feel that the case on OMGL was very weak and it seemed like everyone else was just parroting off what Pablo or T-chan said. That being said, so far it just seems like a very easy/opportunistic lynch for the scum.

I'd also like to mention that DeathNote is at the typical scum third vote on the RayFrost/OMGL bandwagon.

@The people who are watching me, what makes you think I have a potentional to be scum?

You're playing the game. Hence, possible mafia.

How is this in any way answering the question she asked?

On Pablo Molinero

While he didn't keep his RVS vote on OMGL, he seemed to jump off that wagon so he wouldn't look suspicious when a townie was lynched.

This town is way too tentative for it's own good (although it happens all the time in newbie games, so it's understandable.) You know what, I'm still cool with my vote on OMGLyncher. So far he's given us an admission that he's been suspicious and then he's done nothing to re-divert attention from himself. Why? I figure he's scum that knows he can't legitimately build a case on anyone else. I've had this problem before as scum, too, and I can easily see it being the same situation.

This bothers me coming from an IC as I read through and know OMGL's alignment. Most of the time scum will not admit that they have been suspicious and will be trying everything they can to divert attention from themselves.

You make him sound like he's a mafia veteran when this post definitely says otherwise.

On havingfitz

He stays very quiet. I know I'm just catching up, but I keep forgetting that he's in the game with how little he posts.

Like I said before though...the only person close to getting a vote for me at the moment would be OMG and even then I would need to look over his posts again.

This bothers me because it seems like you are just following the crowd, and the fact that you would need to look over his posts again proves your uncertainty.



Caught up to the bottom of page 5


I'm heading to bed as I live in Sicily and I'm exhausted, but I will get the rest up tomorrow.

[Starbuck]

Starting at the top of page 6

I definitely don't agree with the lynch on OMGL as I said in my last analysis post. I definitely think it was driven by opportunistic scum. Knowing his alignment, it's very obvious that he was a frustrated townie, and the fact that the "experienced" players in this game didn't pick up on this bothers me greatly.

On MiteyMouse

I know Mitey is dead, but I really liked this post by her and I definitely think that it needs to be re-read by a few people because I saw the nastiness on the last page when I went to check the current vote count.

That being said, I am a nice player and will shoot compliments to players...I also give out hugs and worry about the feelings of the other players. That is just me, I like to

keep the games clean and friendly

. I get accused of buddying almost every game that I play...and yes, I do try to build favourable relationships with the players in the game.

I play quite a few games here and don't want a bad relationship from a game to hurt the potential to play with someone at a later time.

On havingfitz

He makes the point that I made in my first analysis post about other people besides OMGL being inactive in Post 131.

I also like the points he makes on MiteyMouse. You have every right to expect more out of experienced players. I think it's quite hypocritical for experienced players to talk down to newbies (not saying that Mitey did this, just my experience in Newbie games) when the Newbie Queue is for helping people get orientated and to sit back and not add anything of value to the conversation. This goes for SE's and IC's imho.

He takes a very opportunistic jump onto the OMGL wagon in Post 141. I also don't like how he seems to go out of his way to analyze why he thinks that the person putting the 5th vote (or in this case the hammer vote on someone) would not increase his suspicions of them. And the fact that he mentions that his vote will get to a lynch quicker bothers me.

The timing of your vote, havingfitz, really is odd. The thing that scares me more is the fact that you're inviting us to vote out OMG and stating

no consequences or suspicions

from yourself. In that situation if someone threw on a 5th vote I would think them reckless and scummy. It reeks of a quicklynch now that we've waited for many days waiting for an OMG response.

This. QFT.

1.) I’m an impatient person. If everyone was actively participating I would be in no hurry to end the first day.

Being impatient in a mafia game is a BAD thing. I know at the time of this post that OMGL hadn't posted in 5 days, but lynching someone who can't defend themselves is scummy.

I don’t think two weeks into the game is a quicklynch…especially when OMG has been the scum focus of the game and has had votes on him for most of the game.

I agree two weeks is definitely not a quicklynch especially at the rate this game seemed to be going, but your entrance onto the wagon is definitely scummy.

What bothers me here is that you just admit to voting for him because he's the focus and has the most votes. You, more or less, make a small post about Mitey and then tunnel on OMGL for the rest of the day.

OMG did defend himself and his weak defense is one of the things being held against him. Weren’t you the one who encouraged us to pile on the votes?

He's still new though, newer than yourself. It seems to me that quite a few people in this game aren't looking at that fact.

I agree that the L-1 and 5th votes are actions that warrant suspicion. I tried to preface my vote with my reasoning as best that I could. After re-reading my vote post before I submitted it...I could not consider a potential 5th vote after mine as suspicious without being a total hypocrite. Which I try not to do. I've had OMG as my main suspect since last week...as have others. I don't look forward to my main suspect being replaced. I gave my thoughts on it being a quicklynch above…I don’t think it would be one.

The contradictions in this post, and the contradictions with your previous posts with the post bother me. You agree that L-1 and hammer votes are actions that warrant suspicion, but then you contradict yourself and say that you can't consider the hammer after your L-1 vote to be suspicious.

You say you were suspicious of OMG since the week prior, but you basically parrot off of what everyone else says with your suspicion of him. I mentioned it in my first analysis and I'll mention it again. You definitely are following the crowd here.

You also repeat yourself quite a bit that you don't look forward to him being replaced. I get a very scummy feeling from this because you jumped on the wagon since he couldn't defend himself and you don't want a replacement to come in to defend themselves and possibly debunk your already weak case.

While a large part of my last few days posting has been based on a desire to move things along...it is also with the most likely scum candidate at the moment in mind and not having to deal with his replacement and the replacement's efforts to remove the scum stain left by OMG (which I would have a hard time accepting).

I definitely do not like the tone in this. OMGL really didn't leave such a huge stain of scumminess as you are painting here. The tunneling of OMGL is noted.

On Tororingu-chan

The fact that T-chan has almost double the activity of everyone else (going off of havingfitz's Post 131) seems to point in the direction that T-chan is trying to be overactive. I don't think that this is a scumtell, but I really think that she needs to let others get in edgewise.

Nononono~~ No Lynch is terrible~ It means we don't get to use our most powerful weapon, the lynch~ >_<;;

I agree that no lynch is terrible, but I don't agree with your reasoning here. A lynch on Day 1, no matter if it's a Vanilla Townie or Mafia will always help garner information. The fact that you don't mention this bothers me.

I think we really have to replace OMGLyncher.... Flaking under pressure, +1 scumminess~ >_>;

Not always. It could definitely point to a frustrated townie, ESPECIALLY in a newbie game. I could see you saying this about an experienced player, but definitely not a new player.


T-chan's constant riding of the new players in the NEWBIE game is rather irksome. I don't like how she never explains why certain things are scummy. I know you aren't an IC, but according to yourself earlier, you are experienced. I expect a lot more out of experienced mafia players.

Hmmm~~ I find it odd that havingfitz seems to think that OMGLyncher is guaranteed scum and would rather lynch him now rather than wait for a replacement~ >_<;

Yet at this point in time I would still prefer an OMGLyncher lynch.... havingfitz rushing into things only shows that havingfitz is impatient, not that he is scum... ^_^

Wow, what a contradiction here.

How can that only show that havingfitz is impatient? I definitely have pointed out quite a few scummy things with havingfitz and I'm rather bothered that you just dismiss that with a wave of your hand.

On Pablo Molinero

Did I mention that I dislike playing against replacements?

Why?

That said, havingfitz's current post/vote comes at a very bizarre time, in my opinion. OMGLyncher is very clearly AWOL and unable to currently defend himself AND clearly in need of a replacement, (which I'm sure VRK will get in no time once OMG misses his prod), and only then does havingfitz pops in with a vote and post encouraging the town to close this day out ("I won't find vote #5 scummy"), before a defense for OMG can be made. I hate replacements as much as the next guy, but to axe a player while gone without allowing them to retort... it screams scummy to me.

I'm very glad someone pointed this out when it happened, but I find it odd coming from you, especially with what I previously pointed out about you.

On PaltryExcuse

If we have two replacements, what tends to happen to those who replace in? I mean, they inherit the role of the previous owner, but does that mean they have to take responsibility for what their predecessor said and try to explain their thinking? Basically, do they take ownership of whatever was said by the one they replaced?

In answer to your first question, yes. If you replace into a game and the person you replaced has made themselves look scummy, the replacement needs to redeem. Whenever I replace in, I always analyze my predecessor alongside everyone else, and I'm not afraid to point out where I think their faults are. You obviously won't be able to explain what that person was thinking, since the replacement isn't them, but you can try to.

Unfortunately, most people that have started a game from the beginning will see someone as being scummy and when that person replaces out for whatever reason, they will still see the spot as being scummy.

What I meant was, now that he has stopped posting for 3 / 4 days and hasn't posted, I was waiting for a response. And then the 4th vote comes on and you encourage us to put the nail on the coffin, like a "quick, lynch that guy". I think what happened was suspicious, but all in all it more raised my eyebrows than convinced me of your guilt. Your comments have provided a large portion of recent activity and my gut is leaning towards you wanting to move things along.

You seem to fencesit here. You state that what he did was scummy, but then you turn right back around and say that he is trying to move the game along.




Caught up to ABR and RayFrost replacing in Page 7, Post 152

[Starbuck]

Starting ABR and RayFrost replacing in Page 7, Post 152

On my predecessor, ronnieroo

I definitely think that ronnie defended herself very well against ABR in Post 173, as he is a tough competitor.

On Tororingu-chan

See what I find funny about HF thinking that Ray/OMG is guaranteed Scum is that it smels of PIS (perfect infrmation syndrome). What I find funnier is that you point this out and then defend him T-Chan.

I'm very glad that Mitey pointed this out when it happened as it's exactly what I'm currently thinking.

I noticed it, and it was odd, but at this point in time I don't consider him scummier than OMGLyncher~~ ^_^ So far, I'm willing to accept his explanation that he's just really impatient, since I can see how it's possible to be exasperated at the rate this game is (was) moving.. @_@;;

I don't like your willingness to accept that he's just impatient. You definitely are defending havingfitz. I also don't like that after MM pointed you out as defending havingfitz that you get all up in arms about it.

On DeathNote

I just wanted to note the scumminess of Post 158. As I haven't gotten to Day 2 and seen the reason that he was lynched, the fact that he wanted to vote before Ray got caught up would have given me reason enough to vote him on Day 1 if I was here.

And noting Post 166 and in Post 174, especially with this one thing:

He was simply the best option since he lacked the ability to defend himself.

And then he thinks he put Ray at L-1!

DN - I put him here, but he's obv. scum. he's obviously the one manipulating events so I replace into games with him in them seriously though, no real read on him so far.

Ray, I hope you are reading along and I hope you are basking in the fact that you were right about DeathNote with your first sentence.

I mean, seriously, wtf. Why didn't you guys jump on DeathNote during Day 1? His very obvious scumminess is screaming at me.

On havingfitz

I thought you learned your lesson in my last (& first...816) game. Always make your analysis post first. You did the same thing in that game...showed up way late Japan time...said you'd have a read and get back to us. Then you were lynched to end the game before you had a chance to speak.

I definitely do not care for this post. I mean seriously, someone can't check in to say hi before they do their analysis?

MM...nowhere do I make any reference to OMG being guaranteed scum. He was #1 on my list last week...as he was for a few others...but my suspicions on him were not the only reasons for my vote on him (as I have explained in detail). Don't put words in my mouth to justify your attempt to shift negative sentiment my way. I would focus more on the content of your posts. For someone with as much experience as you and so willing to help the IC...your posts don't have a lot of meat to them.

Do you have any other reasons to suspect me besides your faulty accusation that I think OMG was guaranteed scum?

What about this:

While a large part of my last few days posting has been based on a desire to move things along...it is also with the most likely scum candidate at the moment in mind and not having to deal with his replacement and the replacement's efforts to remove the scum stain left by OMG (which I would have a hard time accepting).

You say right there that you would have a hard time accepting a replacement's efforts to remove the scum stain, which to me (and obviously to MM) is you stating that you think he's guaranteed scum.

I think it's interesting that havingfitz immediately downgrades to a FoS after a real life person came along. Not only that, but the real-live person hasn't even posted a proper defense or response yet. Where did the gung-ho behavior go? What about keeping pressure on and making replacements answer for with their predecessor did? I'm fine where my vote is right now on havingfitz, who hasn't helped himself one bit with his recent actions, but I'd definitely like to see how Ray responds.

Pablo hits the nail on the head here.


How funny that havingfitz goes on and on how the hammer vote wouldn't be looked on as being suspicious by him, and he goes and hammers. And his reason now for his vote is that RayFrost hasn't done enough since he replaced in to change his mind.

I have low scum reads on all the people voting for RF while my top three suspects are sending their votes elsewhere. Seems like my odds (assuming my 'gut' is right) of hitting scum are decent.

Well, guess you are kinda wrong here with the fact that DeathNote was on the RayFrost/OMGL bandwagon.

On PaltryExcuse

Upon a perusal of Roo's posts, I have to say ABR's argument does stand strong in my mind.
Reason: Roo plays the newbie card a lot when talking about OMG. Inexperience can be a detriment, but it's not an excuse for scummy behaviour. The defense is weak.

How do you feel about it now that OMGL flipped town? You, yourself, are a newbie, and this statement is very odd coming from someone who at this point has only been playing on MS for 21 days. Ronnie has been playing for awhile now, and I'm definitely surprised that she is the only semi-experienced person to point out that his actions are showing more frustrated townie than scum.


You say just up there that the defense is bad, but then you turn right around in the same post and say this:

If Roo doesn't want someone lynched then wouldn't she defend them? She doesn't believe OMG is scum, and defends him against pretty much everyone else. However, if she was scum, Ray gets lynched and is town, she looks like a defender of the down-trod. I'm having trouble seeing how a defense is instantly bad.

Contradiction much?


I also think it's very scummy that you vote for Ray before he gets his analysis post up. This game is very, VERY wordy, which is what's taking me so long to get through it.

I don't think Ray will pop up town, hence I don't think it is a when, but an if. This sounds like you're pretty sure Ray will flip town. I have to say this makes me a bit suspicious of you.

So after Ray flipped town, were you still suspicious of ronnie?


Caught up to the end of Day 1, beginning of Day 2...Post 227

[Starbuck]

Starting beginning of Day 2...Page 10, Post 227

On my predecessor, ronnieroo

I think she gave a perfect answer to DeathNote's question in Post 232.

I really have no qualms with anything that ronnie has done.

On ABR

Activity isn't a scumtell at all, in fact most scum like to use lack of activity as a reason to mislynch town.

QFT.

Like Day 1 for instance!


One thing I want to mention about ABR is that I've played with him before and although I see he was V/LA, his posts in general really didn't impress me especially knowing now that he was the doc.

On T-chan

So far you don't seem to have any opinions on anyone on Day 2, but you say this

Yes, I was probably tunnel-visioning a little... @_@; I thought he was miles scummier than anyone else, so I tried to get him lynched...

You found absolutely no one else scummy on Day 1?

I've been watching both havingfitz and Pablo going at each other's throats, and I don't think I have any reason to believe either are scum.... let's try not to let them eclipse any other player and make it seem as if we all have to vote for either one or the other! ^_^;

I don't care for the tiptoeing she's doing here.


I definitely endorse her case on DeathNote in Post 277, and besides what I previously pointed out and playing with him previously. He replaced out because he was caught. No question about it.

So in Post 389, T-chan claims cop with a guilty on DeathNote/almightybob. Unless she's seriously bussing and the real cop is just staying quiet, but without a counterclaim, then I'm thinking that she is the cop.

What's funny about all this is that the maf took the shot at ABR, probably figuring that there was a Doc out there that could protect T-chan. But I don't think they anticipated that he was the doc.

On havingfitz

Huge surprise there. The way he handled the last week before dropping the hammer was incredibly scummy. Hopefully I'll find a break in homework (which I'm currently doing) sometime this week to give a longer post why and drop my vote on him.

QFT.

That sucked. Two of my top three suspects turn out to be town. Obviously any gut feel/intuition I've got needs re-adjusted.

At least my odds of hitting scum have improved.

This just screams scumminess to me.

@Havingfitz: You put a vote on OMG to make him L-1, and encouraged others to vote before replacements (considering your distaste for them). Why was it once Ray 'arrived' the time to wait for OMG/Ray a chance to talk?

Please see post 171. I basically answer the same line of questioning from Pablo.

Which was:

I was gung ho until the vote on OMG went from L-1 to L-2 and the town consensus seemed to favor waiting.

That doesn't make your intentions clear at all for me. If the town doesn't want him lynched, they'll respond in kind. It seems to me as though you shied away from attack and hid behind 'what the town wants'. From what I understand, it was the 'what the town wanted' that convinced you.

QFT.

I wasn't shying away...when the votes for OMG were getting fewer I was basically resigned to the fact he wasn't going anywhere (at least before a replacement was made) and once that replacement was made, it was only common courtesy to let the replacement have their say.

And when the replacement did have their say you placed the hammer vote because you didn't like what they said and they didn't do enough to change your mind, but you didn't state WHY or WHAT you didn't like.


I'm definitely not liking the case he makes on Pablo in Post 246. He cuts out half of Pablo's Post 70 and only uses the part that makes himself look good. His entire statement about hypocrisy at all is null and void to me.

Note: at this point the two most active players were TC and DN. Pablo's 10 prior posts were within one or two posts of everyone else's in the game. Trying to divert attention from himself as one of the two most active players (which he wasn't) and steer attentions to the less active players, of whom he was actually right in line with and is now the leader of, =hypocrisy IMO

Reaching much? My goodness.

Huh? I'm trying to be more active in the game. I give my reasons for thinking OMG is the scummiest person (whom you have been focusing on up to this point as well) and vote for him. In your limited number of posts you have urged activity (and used the lack of it as a reason to suspect OMG), prompted us to cast votes, stated your dislike of replacements, and cast suspicions towards OMG. In this one post you use basically all of these things you have espoused to shift suspicions towards me and change your vote from OMG to me. That IMO is several examples of hypocrisy lumped into one post.

1. You and Pablo were not the only ones focusing on OMGL. At that point, everyone in the game was focusing on him.

2. Urging activity is part of being a good IC and being a mafia player in general.

3. I have said before that OMGL gave me the impression of a frustrated townie, but others do take lurking out of a game (depending on the actions of the person) as a scum tell. You also did this, so I don't understand your reasoning here.

4. Prompting to cast votes is also part of being a good IC. The best thing that townies have are their vote. The fact that you are jumping on him for asking people to use their vote bothers me.

5. A lot of people dislike replacements, how is this in anyway related to the situation at hand?

Pablo, who doesn't like replacements and wants people to vote and be active, denounces my downgrading of my vote on RayFrost (which I have explained in detail was to allow him (RF) to state his case) and looks forward to seeing how Ray responds. ? Isn't this what I am trying to achieve as well? <=Hypocrisy>

In summary....Pablo has: urged us to be active, to pile on votes, stated his dislike of replacements, used OMG's lack of activity as a reason to suspect OMG, and been willing to hear OMGs replacement state his case and hypocritically, Pablo has been: the least active on the board, vehemently objected to my vote on his main suspect (OMG), and criticized my willingness (however reluctant it may have been) to allow OMG's replacement to have his say in the very same post where he (Pablo) announces he is looking forward to hearing OMG's replacement's response as well. And then Pablo disappears until Ray is gone.

1. To me, it seemed like you couldn't care what RayFrost said because he would never redeem the actions of OMGL to you, and you state this in the post where you hammer him. So what was the point of you unvoting in the first place?

2. I already answered most of what you said above this.

3. Where has he been the least active? If you are going to say this, I want to see numbers.

4. Why can't he object to your scummy jump onto the wagon? Whether or not it's the same person he suspects holds no water.

The use of the word 'hypocrisy' throughout this whole post is a bit much. He's trying hard to get a case on Pablo when there really isn't one. If anyone is being hypocritical here, it's definitely havingfitz.

Who says you aren't comparable to OMG? You? Well that's convenient...for you. You used OMG's inactivity as a negative towards him like I am towards you (among other negatives). In my opinion there is a comparision. And my comments regarding your persistent hypocratic play do not revolve entirely on comparisons to OMG (?).

This bothers me because Pablo is no where near as inactive as OMGL was.

Once the replacement occurred (as I've already mentioned) I was willing to hear RayFrost out.Funny enough....since you apparently were so keen to hear from OMG's replacement you may want to note that he had you as his top scum suspect and me as his least scummy suspect.

This post bothers me. You definitely did not care what Ray had to say especially because you were pushing for the lynch to happen before he replaced in.

Also...how is my vote pre-emptive or panicked? I have voiced suspicions of you since before OMG was even gone and with OMG (and subsequently MiteyMouse) gone...you are my top suspect. And I gave numerous reasons for my suspicions. Nothing panicked about it. You on the other hand have a very weak defense/case against me...especially considering the biggest thing I've done to add to you suspcions of me is the editting I invalidated at the beginning of this post.

1. You definitely mentioned Pablo at the beginning of the game, but you rarely mention him (other than your scumlists) until Day 2 when he started mentioning your inconsistencies and scumminess.

2. Reading you in iso, you can find that your suspicions lie with T-chan, Pablo and OMG in this post. This is the one and only time you voice your suspicion of T-chan. You then mention your suspicion of MM here. You post another list of who you think is scummiest here. Then miraculously both of your suspects are gone, and you are free to focus on Pablo.

3. Where specifically is his case weak? My guess is that you did not read the whole thing because you only think he's making a case on you based on the editting you did of his posts.

I thought TC made some good observations on DN but when I looked closer I think I came to some of the same conclusions Bob has used in DN's defense. I'm not convinced DN is mafia.

I sense distancing.


One thing I'd like to point out is that MM highly suspected fitz on Day 1 & died Night 1 and then ABR did the same on Day 2 & died Night 2.

On PaltryExcuse

Really, admitting to fault and having some semblance of self-awareness before someone can point it out is a FAULT? Yikes, you have some messed-up priorities, if that's so.

I definitely agree with Pablo's statement here, but I will point out that OMGL did the same thing (pointed out his faults) and got pounced all over for it.

On Pablo

I have no qualms about his case on havingfitz in from 247 to 249.

If forced to, due the deadline, I would have hammered, yes.

This is very easy and WIFOM-y to say after the fact.


Caught up to the end of Day 2

[Starbuck]

Starting at the beginning of Day 3

On Havingfitz

That sucks that ABR was the doctor. If the doctor had made it through the night town would have been guaranteed the win. Now a town win is more like 50-50 unless TC guessed right during the night. As she had a 1-4 chance of investigating the right person I hope she chose wisely.

I love a bowl of WIFOM first thing in the morning.

On Tororingu-chan

Sorry about that everyone, I had some connection problems~~ ._.;;;
Well, I was mostly fishing for reactions, but I have an innocent on Starbuck (ronnieroo)! ^_^

OMG, I just saw this and I feel so bad now for suspecting you for a good part of my analysis!

ROFL.


I did see your nastiness on the last page and where VRK edited in his thoughts. VRK knows that I replace into a lot of newbie games and he knows exactly what I do. I read the game from beginning to end. Although, I was curious to see what the vote count was so I checked it before I started the rest of my analysis and caught your words.

Anyway, looks like for now I am number one on Starbuck's scummeter. Looking forward to who number 2 is~~ ^_^

I never said you were scummy. As I said above, I analyze the whole game and I will point out what I think is faulty.



I'm not sure how I'm feeling about this 1v1 between Paltry and Pablo, because I really don't suspect either and I'm getting the feeling of two townies going at it.

[Starbuck]

So the person that I think is the scummiest is getting my vote

Vote: havingfitz

You have a lot to respond to by the way.

[Starbuck]

So, why would you have to wait for me to finish my analysis when you have been here the whole time?

You should definitely have a feel for who you think is scum or not without my opinion on the matter.

[Starbuck]

I have a lot there, just try and do your best to respond to everything.

And that goes for everyone else too, if you guys have questions for me after reading my analysis. =)

[Starbuck]

No, but you did this once already when Ray replaced in. It didn't seem to matter what he said because you hammered/voted anyways.

It seemed like the same deal here. It wouldn't matter who I voted for or talked about. You were gonna vote the same way anyways.

[Starbuck]

That's not my point whether Ray was confirmed or not. You made it blatantly obvious with your hammer vote that it wouldn't have mattered what he said. You are opportunistic scum.

[Starbuck]

You are opportunistic scum.

You are a lousy detective which I will point out in the long reply I am putting together. If I go today you should be extremely happy with your undermining of the town's chances to win this game.

I'm a lousy detective? I think you are just upset because I have a very, very good case on you and you can't debunk by saying "she's inactive, let's lynch her" or "she's gotta be scum" because I'm confirmed.

I definitely think I caught you, and you are upset about it. Nice appeal to emotion though, it's a good try, but a failure.

[Starbuck]

Btw, telling me to re-read when I just reread the whole game is rather redundant. I have the game fresh in my head, and I highlighted everything I found scummy of you and now I have to go back and repeat myself again to you.


1. By typical, I mean that you can normally find scum right in the middle of the wagon. Typically the third vote in a Newbie Game. Way to get what I was saying wrong.

2. So you are admitting to parroting and the fact that everyone else built a case and you figured you'd ride it out. You can accept others' cases, but you ALWAYS build your own and you never ride on the cases of others. That's scummy.

3. The thought never crossed your mind of "Maybe OMGL could be town?". I highly doubt this as you were definitely looking for an easy lynch.

4. Ronnie didn't know OMG's alignment and she disagreed with it, but no one stopped to even hear what she said. She took the EXACT stance I would have taken if I started this game from the beginning.

5. How is entrance onto a wagon scummy? I already explained this in the post that you refer to. You wanted to lynch OMGL quickly because you DID NOT want a replacement to come in to redeem him.

6. Where did I say that every L-1, L-2, and hammer vote is scummy? I NEVER said that. I only said that you going out of your way to point out that you wouldn't be suspect of whoever hammers was suspicious. Nice try on twisting my words.

7. How is it negative? You tunnel straight on OMG all day. You mention other suspects maybe once or twice, but all you do is talk about OMG like he made such a huge mistake. He was such an easy lynch that you took it, no questions asked because you knew that no matter what the replacement said, you'd still vote/hammer him, which you did.

8. What are you talking about that I'm using points brought up by others? If someone else already pointed out something before I did, that's good. I'm glad they caught it when it happened. It doesn't make you any less scummy.

9. Following the crowd is when you just go along with it without adding anything new to the case, and you didn't add anything to the case already on OMG. DeathNote was sitting there all day on Day 1, scummy as all hell, and you let that slip right past you because you were too busy focusing on an inactive player, OR you were trying to cover for DeathNote.

10. You say you had other suspects, but you don't focus on your other "suspects" who were active as hard as you focus on the inactive OMGL. You were so focused on OMGL's inactivity that you never noticed DeathNote's inactivity.

11. At that point in the game, you DID NOT know that T-C was a cop. So to use that now is quite WIFOM-y.

12. About Ray being right, I guess you don't understand sarcasm?

13. Your post to Ray definitely did not read to me as joking.

14. Pablo hit the nail on the head with the fact that you wanted to lynch OMGL before a replacement was found, pretty much silencing anything that the replacement would say. I already read your explanation on your FOS, but you already had insinuated that you did not care what the replacement had to say because it would do little to sway your vote. So your unvote and FOS just made you look scummier.

15. Why would you assume that both scum would be on the lynch? Just because it didn't happen in your previous games, doesn't mean that it didn't/couldn't happen here.

16. So you go and list the 3 people who didn't vote for Ray and include Ray on the list? Come on dude, a townie isn't going to give in to their lynch. Nor give the scum the satisfaction of hammering themselves.

17. So how was ABR confirmed town?

18. I have read your posts. I JUST READ THE ENTIRE FREAKING GAME. When you are that far along in the game, you give the courtesy of either directly linking to a post that you are referring to, or quoting it. You don't just give post numbers.

19. The first moment I read OMGL's posts. I automatically got the feeling of a frustrated townie. You took his lurking out of the game as a scum tell and you are trying to use the same point in your case against Pablo.

20. You keep pointing me to other posts which I've already read. Obviously, they didn't do much or I still wouldn't be wanting you to elaborate!

[Starbuck]

Post 509 seems nasty though.

Nothing nasty about it. Starbucks is stating opinion when she calls me "opportunistic scum" and I am stating fact with the benefit of hindsight and knowing my role.

He||, it appeared she was on pace to have TC as one of her top suspects until she realized she was a cop...and I know whether her current vote is on target, she does not. There is also the added frustration of having the entire fate of this game of several weeks be placed in the hands of someone who has waited a week to show any involvement and then when she does...gets it wrong.

I read the game from the beginning and I did not know that she was a cop until I got to her claim post. I replace into a lot of games and I read every single one from the beginning.

Just because she is in the role of cop does not mean that she didn't do anything scummy.

I definitely feel a lot of emotion here. It sounds like a scum victory slipping away.

[Starbuck]

I'm a lousy detective? I think you are just upset because I have a very, very good case on you and you can't debunk by saying "she's inactive, let's lynch her" or "she's gotta be scum" because I'm confirmed.

I definitely think I caught you, and you are upset about it. Nice appeal to emotion though, it's a good try, but a failure.

Yes.

You are relegated to thinking you caught me. That's a step down from knowing whether you have or not (which I do know...along with the remaining scum). And I don't think you have a good case...all you have done is "parrot" points others have brought up which I have already addressed. If parroting is not acceptable when voting for suspected scum...why are you doing it? 17 or 18 pages of material is a lot to catch up with and your cursory investigation has failed you.

Where did I parrot?

If someone made the point I would have made if I was in this game from the beginning during the time of a certain post you made, I will definitely give them props for it.

Also, when a replacement replaces in and does an analysis, it's called that for a reason.

I still don't see where I'm parroting. I read through the game and pointed out what I thought was good and what I thought was scummy. That's what you do with an ANALYSIS. Also, 17 or 18 pages is nothing compared to the number of pages I normally catch up on when I replace into a game.

I have come up with my own case on you based on your actions. Now you are appealing to emotion big time.

[Starbuck]

I also love how you are trying so hard to make a case on me when T-C already confirmed me as town.

[Starbuck]

1. He pretty much opens it up like he's rather aghast that the town lost the doctor, and makes it well known that town would be guaranteed a win if the doc was alive. Scum normally fake being upset about losing a PR during the night.

2. I think it is a point against havingfitz especially because I think he's scum. He could have easily just been keeping all of the focus on OMGL so that DeathNote could slip by unnoticed.


You seem to keep forgetting that there is still one scum left. I think that person is havingfitz. So one of the 4 of you didn't let DeathNote slip by, they HELPED him slip by.

[Starbuck]

Before I answer all of this, are you really trying to make a case on someone who's CONFIRMED?

[Starbuck]

havingfitz, did you see the mod's response to your question at the bottom of 526? Do you still think I'm as blind as you think I am?

[Starbuck]

And btw, a lot of your questions, about the 3rd person on the bandwagon being mafia and what not is all in that link the mod provided.

[Starbuck]

I do have my mind set. I really haven't liked any of your replies or how overdefensive you have become.

I've read over what you wrote, but I just started class on Tues night which is why I haven't given a super huge verbose answer yet. I definitely feel that you are the last scum.

[Starbuck]

There's a difference between defensiveness and OVERdefensiveness.

[Starbuck]

Actually if you read back in his posts, he has finished a game and is participating in another besides this one.

[Starbuck]

I don't know how I feel about Pablo referring to his own meta.

[Starbuck]

Paltry, the word "flip" is always used in connotation with the lynch.

[Starbuck]

To back it up:

[url=http://www.mafiascum.net/wiki/index.php?title=Flip]Flip - MafiaScum Wiki[/quote]

The easiest way to link to the Wiki is as follows:

Code: Select all

[wiki]Article Name[/wiki]

No need to use the [url ] tags.

Link --->

Flip

[Starbuck]

Omg failz tagz, Vel can you fix that plx?

[Starbuck]

How can you even use meta in a Newbie Game? I mean seriously.

[Starbuck]

Thanks for waiting for me to reply to him. Started my new semester this week and had my Physical Readiness Test for the Navy.

[Starbuck]

Why would the fact that I'm in the Navy (and have been for the past 6 years) have anything to do with an online forum game?

[Starbuck]

You are definitely trying to start up an issue where there isn't one. Most people that play with me regularly know that I'm in the military and that I'm currently stationed in Sicily. I'm Active Duty in the United States Navy and this week was my PRT, along with the fact that I am working on my Associate's Degree on my off time as well. People do have lives outside of Mafiascum, and yes, I did not get a chance to get up my reply to you before today.

I was working on my reply to you when T-chan voted Pablo. I still haven't finished it (as I work on all my replies in Notepad) and I will reply to you after we see what Pablo flips. I definitely do not think that he is scum, and more than likely if you are, you will kill me tonight.

[Starbuck]

How is what I do for a living an outside allegiance?

[Starbuck]

Going back with my suspicion....

Vote: Havingfitz

Also, to address the conversation prior to Night, I really didn't know how to answer that question because I still don't get how what I do for a living would have anything to do with this game.

Leave it for after the game - from a PM from fitz it seems as it was more of a curiosity than anything.

-Vel

[Starbuck]

I honestly felt that havingfitz was the last scum, which is why I voted him. I really didn't get a scum read on Paltry at all, so kudos to you, Paltry. I realized after the fact (and eating dinner) that I should wait and let the game play out, but by the time I got back to unvote, Paltry had already voted.


I'm seriously wondering why T-chan voted for Pablo yesterday.

[Starbuck]

DeathNote was so scummy on Day 1. I just have no idea how no one else saw it at the time.

And yes, I know I screwed up. It hit me that we were in LYLO when I was at dinner. People do make mistakes.

[Starbuck]

No, I won't admit it, because that's not what happened.

I understand that you are upset, but there's no reason to be a jerk.

[Starbuck]

T-chan said that she was active on this site, and that she just makes alts all the time. She said it sometime during the game. I was trying to figure out who she might be.

[Starbuck]

@Pablo - VRK said it perfectly right here:

I still think the case on you was much weaker than the one on fitz.

I would definitely like to know what T-chan as town and the cop was thinking when she hammered you.