Mini 865 -- Evil Eyes (Over)

[Nuwen]

I slept a little and bought cigarettes so I'm not as grouchy anymore. I still want to lynch Zaz (and encourage everyone to do the same in future games) for that abomination. Between Crypto's activity spam (and Crypto being Crypto) and Zaz's recent spam, this game is now even more annoying to read.

Mass FOSes are for pussies and scum.

Nuwen, have you stated this belief/opinion/tell in a previous game? If so, link please?

Always. My recent invitational game,

All of these FOSes need to turn into words.

Unvote
Vote:LlamaFluff

FOS: ZazieR, Lord Gurgi

And again in Incognito's mini 780,

FOSes are for scum distancing and pussies:

~~~

If anyone wants an example of why Zaz's style is detrimental to games, look no further than the first few posts:

Post 82 – Then why no support for it,

Nuwen

?

Post 72 –

Nuwen

, why did you ignore this post?

Geek

’s soft attack is noted.

Both of these questions are answered in following posts. It's pretty obvious that Zaz did one read-through and posted isolated analysis along the way. This method of scumhunting isn't scumhunting at all; it's the appearance of activity, but takes into account

nothing

about the game as a cohesive whole. Unacceptable. Answering Zaz's stupid questions actually distracts away from contemporary issues and revisits lines of questioning that've already been pursued. If it weren't her standard replace-in style, I would call it scummy to the max.

Er, aren't questions, notes, and dislikes the crux of scum hunting? I'm not saying I like Zazie's style, but . . . I don't see the logic in lynching Zaz (at this point).

Post 89 – Noted how

SD

barges in without adding something.

Post 119 – Coaching from

Reck

is noted.

Post 151 –

Tubby

’s hypocrism is noted.

Post 164 – Not liking this answer from

Hoopla

at all.

Noted, noted, noted, not liking - has anyone else

noted

that these pieces of analysis float independent and unexplained? We're far enough into the game that "not liking" a post will be easy enough to explain; gut reactions out of the RVS are long behind us. Zaz proves himself capable of committing to a stance and expanding on why a post bothers him,

Post 165 – Very scummy post from

Iam

. Stating that he agrees with Reck’s accusation against Hoopla for rolefishing, yet never pointing it out himself. Stating he agrees with the smiley scumtell brought up by Reck, yet also never pointing it out himself.

Why weren't other "notes" and "not likes" even the same treatment?

[Nuwen]

For the sake of my brain and everyone else's, here are Zaz's posts in one place. We can pretend the last page never happened and just kill him.

Post 41 –

Suave

, why were you promoting the Hoopla wagon? And why did you only call out Hoopla, while Reck was ‘promoting’ the Iam-wagon as well?
Post 44 –

Suave

pointing fingers at Hoopla is noted.
Post 46 –

Suave

, does this mean that a RVS bandwagon consisting out of 1 (Though it’s no bandwagon then) or 2 votes is helpful? If so, why and why is this different for RVS bandwagons with 3 or more votes?
Post 58 – If you’re talking about Korlash’s game,

Julien

, it seems that Suave was scum there. So can you elaborate on his play there?
Post 59 –

Suave

– what was your first game? Link?
Post 66 –

Hoopla

, how serious were you about the policy lynch ‘suggestion’?
Post 72 –

Nuwen

, why did you ignore this post?

Geek

’s soft attack is noted.
Post 82 – Then why no support for it,

Nuwen

?
Post 89 – Noted how

SD

barges in without adding something.
Post 93 – How come you stated that you didn’t like Hoopla’s third vote on Iam’s bandwagon, but not SD’s fourth vote against you,

Suave

?
How come nobody mentioned Hoopla's vote against Suave in this post (Until Symbol pointed it out)?
Post 102 – Agreed with this. The only thing around the Geek-Nuwen argument that interests me is that they both ignored questions. I don’t think that anything else that doesn’t have to do with this, can tell something about their alignment.
Post 109 – How do you see this as coaching,

ML

?
Post 119 – Coaching from

Reck

is noted.
Post 122 – How does that description not fit ‘coaching’,

Reck

? Also, you’re voting him, so why give the one who you’re voting ‘advice’?
Post 127 – This really makes

Reck

’s post in which he coaches Suave scummy.
Post 144 – Not liking this FoS from

Reck

.
Post 151 –

Tubby

’s hypocrism is noted.
Post 161 – And

Suave

ignored a question.
But

Julien

, what do you mean with this question?
Post 163 – What’s mea culpa,

ekiM

?
Post 164 – Not liking this answer from

Hoopla

at all.
Post 165 – Very scummy post from

Iam

. Stating that he agrees with Reck’s accusation against Hoopla for rolefishing, yet never pointing it out himself. Stating he agrees with the smiley scumtell brought up by Reck, yet also never pointing it out himself.
Post 186 – Why point out Nuwen’s joke post about her alignment, but not Toro’s,

Symbol

?
Post 189 – Not liking Symbol. He basically let others do the scumhunting, while trying to appear active.
EDIT: Liking him a lot more now that he’s explaining who he finds suspicious with reasons.
Post 195 – Why did you get a vaguely lurker scum read from ekiM, but not from any other lurker? And how did this change?
Post 202 – Julien stated that he thinks that Suave’s play is equal to the way he plays here. Why do you disagree?

Hoopla

, why no response to what Symbol stated about you?
Post 208 – With which points against Hoopla do you agree and why,

Reck

?
Post 211 – Why did you only point out Reck, while the guy whom I replaced did the same and actually in a joking way,

Iam

?
Also, not liking the last paragraph.
Post 220 – I don’t see the contradiction from Iam you’re stating to see,

Geek

Post 223 – Why did you ask for Reck in particular,

Symbol

?
Post 227 – Anything else you want to comment on of the stuff you’ve missed,

Julien

?[/quote][quote="ZazieR"]Not liking it that

Geek

requested replacement.
Post 245 – Why this vote,

Tubby

?

[MacavityLock]

Bold is "Hey Reck, calm down with the rolefishing argument, because it doesn't read that way."

Or it's "My opinion is that it isn't fishing, period."

Italics is "Hey Suave, come up with a fakeclaim immediately." Of course, I don't know if they're intended that way, but it's not hard to read them with that intention.

Why would he need to tell Suave? Suave's brain isn't going to implode if people tell him to claim.

Obviously, I'm not sure that was Toro's intention. I already said this. But it's not too much of a leap to think that he might have been coaching, and I wanted to point it out.

[MrSuave]

I was just persuing Hoopla because her town play seemed VERY different from the game I played with her previously.
No an RVS "wagon" of less people isn't useful at all really. that was my bad, and that theory was wrong anyway.
no that theme game was not my first game, Korlash was. it was like... one of my random ones that I joined and dies right away in. I'll find a link.

[HowardRoark]

Vote Count (D1)

Hoopla (1) -- MrSuave
MrSuave (3) -- julienvonwolfe, MacavityLock, Hoopla

geekalicious

(5) -- iamausername, Symbol, ekiM, xRECKONERx, tubby216
Symbol (1) -- Nuwen
ZazieR (1) -- ZazieR
iamausername (1) --

geekalicious

Not Voting (0)

With 12 alive it takes 7 to lynch.

Deadline: 12 NOV 2009 at 5:15 pm UTC (Countdown)

[Nuwen]

Unvote, vote Zazier

.

There we go.

[crypto]

Mod, ZazieR is voting for xRECKONERx, not herself.

[Symbol]

*whistles innocently*

And there you have it.

[Symbol]

MacavityLock, list of suspects or die. Don't care about the reasons, just a town-scum scale.

[MacavityLock]

MacavityLock, list of suspects or die. Don't care about the reasons, just a town-scum scale.

I don't do town-scum scales. I think they're bad for business. Top 4:
1) Suave
2T) Geek
2T) Zaz
4) JVW

Please give me a good reason for calling me out like this.

[Symbol]

I don't do town-scum scales. I think they're bad for business.

Fair enough.

Please give me a good reason for calling me out like this.

Hmm. Interesting that you'd take issue with me randomly fishing for your opinions.

I think you've been focusing on Suave, and other than that you haven't been scum-hunting so much as picking and choosing minor points to argue about, like Toro's coaching post. Not enough conviction for my liking, so I was wondering what was going on behind the scenes.

I'm surprised Mike isn't on that list, seeing as you said had your eye on him before.

Hmm.

[MrSuave]

so, can someone tell me why I am at the top of people's list? if it was due to lurking, I was in the middle of papers and midterms, but I'm back now.

[Nuwen]

Speaking of Mike, hi Mike! How are you doing? How's the family? I'm glad I get to play with you again, Incog's Chosen game was funsies. Who are two people you currently think are scum, two you think are town (with a brief explanation why).

[MacavityLock]

Please give me a good reason for calling me out like this.

Hmm. Interesting that you'd take issue with me randomly fishing for your opinions.

"List of suspects or die." I think I have reason to take issue.

I think you've been focusing on Suave, and other than that you haven't been scum-hunting so much as picking and choosing minor points to argue about, like Toro's coaching post. Not enough conviction for my liking, so I was wondering what was going on behind the scenes.

I only brought up the coaching stuff again because Zaz asked about it, and no one had asked me previously so I felt it was reasonable to answer. Nuwen's point on Zaz dredging up old crap is a really good one.

I'm surprised Mike isn't on that list, seeing as you said had your eye on him before.

I gave a top 4 very specifically. ekiM is certainly not clear in my mind, but he doesn't make my top 4.

[Hoopla]

so, can someone tell me why I am at the top of people's list? if it was due to lurking, I was in the middle of papers and midterms, but I'm back now.

Don't worry MrSuave, I don't want your head just yet.

I'm with Nuwen, lets wagon Zazie because it would be hilarious.

Unvote, Vote: ZazieR

[julienvonwolfe]

Sorry I haven't been around. As I said in the newbie game I'm ICing, long weekend holiday crazies and then I started a new job. I'll post something better tomorrow, but this thing by Nuwen caught my eye, when she asked why I meant by asking this:

HAHA, I just got that! I see what you did thar! xD but again, the question I must ask is... are you scum? O_o

What will this achieve?

Suave asking Hoopla if she was scum seems supremely useless to me. Hence, I asked what asking her if she was scum would achieve.

[iamausername]

Beefs.

I didn't/don't like Iamausername's isos. 2 and 3. Basically, his argument was that Geek was scummy (or worthy of a vote, or whatever) for implicating Nuwen without voting for her in Geek's iso. 4. But Geek's post is clearly lacking in such naughtiness. It's a straight-up disagreement with Nuwen's viewpoint on an issue that doesn't indicate alignment. Even if Geek is scum, and even if he was attempting to paint her scummy without throwing his own name behind the argument, coming to such conclusions based on his post is really a stretch. (He does later crack down on Nuwen, but that's beside the point.)

So IAUN's isos. 2 and 3 look like a premature attack on Geek grounded in misconstruction of Geek's iso. 4. Also, I don't know why IAUN-town would leap into the fray so quickly. Letting the Geek-Nuwen debate unfold and

then

taking sides would have been the optimal scum-hunting route, in my eyes. Butting in early and attacking Geek implies non-scum-hunting motives on IAUN's part.

I don't think it's really much of a stretch at all. What sparked off my initial suspicion of geek was specifically the fact that he ignored Nuwen when she asked if he thought her behaviour was scummy. The thing is, if geek were town, and the answer to that question was "no", then the logical response would be to drop the argument. As such, the very act of continuing the argument insinuated that yes, Nuwen's behaviour was scummy.

But if geek was town, I don't see why he wouldn't have just said "Yes, you're scummy", if that's what he believed. As scum, on the other hand, I can see that he might want to avoid the confrontation that would inevitably result from doing so, while equally not wanting to drop the opportunity to paint another player in a negative light entirely.

Scummy. See 224. Bandwagons on scummy players are good.

(I can be succinct, too.)

It's kind of cheating when the succinct version is "See non-succinct version".

I find mafia to be more about philosophy than posting walls of text. Symbol, is your wordy style an attempt to distract the town and encourage them not to read?

Is this useless question an attempt to disguise the fact that you have no interest in finding scum in this game?

And what is your iso 7 but a recap of an argument with approximately 3 questions buried within? Seriously, you're suggesting that anything that Symbol wrote clogs the thread more and scummier than you did in that post?

^ Also a fine response.

You have to admit that that was just one post, compared to Symbol's more prodigious output.

Yes, but it was more useless than any of Symbol's by several orders of magnitude. You're trying to invoke "quality, not quantity" on Symbol, but really, there's no quality with his posts, wheras you have been providing neither quality nor quantity with yours.

Page 11 does not exist. Fuck that shit.

so, can someone tell me why I am at the top of people's list? if it was due to lurking, I was in the middle of papers and midterms, but I'm back now.

Who, besides Hoopla, do you think is scum? Or town, if you prefer? You're at the top of people's lists because your posts are completely devoid of the answers to these questions, or anything that looks like an attempt to find the answer to these questions.

[tubby216]

i think we can lynch geek today and move on from there,

however a zaier lynch would be fun also

[ekiM]

Zazie, you can look up "mea culpa" on wikipedia or onelook. Why would you ask that in a post? What possibly value is there in doing that?

It means 'my bad'.

---

I think geekalicious is reasonably likely to be scum, but I realize now we probably can't think of lynching him until he gets replaced (for claiming purposes). Reasons being his undermining of townie reads, his last post before leaving, and the act of quitting itself.

MrSuave has been coasting all day, tubby has done literally nothing but voting. I still think either is a perfectly good lynch today. Reasonably likely they're scum, and if not, we don't lose a townie who will play in a useful fashion.

Juvenilewolf I have a bad feeling about but I don't know why.

---

About Zazie. His posting style is incredibly, outrageously annoying and utterly detrimental to the game. From past experience, coercion will not help at all. Yet it's not alignment indicative. He was just this terrible in the last game I played with him. I don't know what the solution is. I've intentionally avoided games he joins, but what can you do when he replaces in?

---

I'm declining to share my town reads.

---

tubby is there a reason you've only asked questions once so far this game? Why are you lurking, eh?

MrSuave, give some damn opinions and analysis.

Hoopla, you said you had some great thoughts to share. Where they at? Also, you had your vote on MrSuave before but said you had no read on him. Now you're supporting a policy lynch. Whom do you actually suspect?

[xRECKONERx]

Can we lynch Suave or geek, please?

[julienvonwolfe]

Right, I've read through the thread. I can see why people take issue with my play - I admit that I've not devoted as much attention to this game as I could've, and so I apologise. I will try to be better.

I can see why a townie-Nuwen would want to policy-lynch, but surely that's not good scum-hunting. I can't see why townie-Hoopla or scum-Hoopla would want to wagon like that, though. Hoopla?

You have to admit that that was just one post, compared to Symbol's more prodigious output.

I can admit that, but I challenge you to find a single post of Symbol's that was as long and useless as yours.

My post was very early in the game when there wasn't much to go on, and it was an attempt to sum up what seemed to me quite a hard-to-follow argument between Geek and Nuwen. I don't think it was useless.

I was just persuing Hoopla because her town play seemed VERY different from the game I played with her previously.

I see similarities between her play there and here. Who else do you think is suspicious, now?

[tubby216]

hi mike i am not really lurking as much as i am being over cautious.

[xRECKONERx]

This game is incredibly dead. Tubby, you're lurking, actively.

[Symbol]

Julien, catchup posts are worthless if you don't actually make any points with them.

hi mike i am not really lurking as much as i am being over cautious.

Wow.

Unvote. Vote: tubby216.

I like this better than a Geek wagon at this point in time. We might as well let Geek's replacement show up, seeing as the game's slogging along anyway.

[MrSuave]

right now I think that xRECKONERx is pretty sketchy with his wanting to just policy lynch me for no reason, but that might be a bit of OMGUS