Mini 837 - Stratego Mafia! (Game Over!)

[charter]

Vote Count

AlmasterGM - 1 (Vaya)

Not Voting

ElectricBadger
AlmasterGM

With 3 alive, it takes 2 to lynch!

Deadline is October 29th.

[AlmasterGM]

Just did a re-read. The case on Vaya is not that strong. He didn't really do anything relevant the entire beginning of the game, so there's not much to say about that. He jumps on the Synx bandwagon after Synx's mistake becomes obvious, but then again, so did everyone else. The only thing that's really out of place is the two times he flip-flops at the end - 1) he says we no lynch, but then he follows Gorrad and votes for me,2) he jumps back and forth several times on the Hoopla situation. I know Vaya is lying, but I don't have any more proof.

There's been no case on me except for this number theory (which I've responded to), so I've got nothing else to say regarding the situation. EB, just read one more time and then decide. If you have any questions, I'll answer.

Vote: Vaya.

[ElectricBadger]

The number/role theory is indicative - you'd be the only town-town pair, you're the only possibility of having a 6, which would otherwise be the only missing number, Vaya would be the only unique numbered scum and frankly I think you're a better player than failing to help town with every investigation.

There is also a fair amount of evidence against you. You did some lurking as well, and I still really don't like your play during the Synx lynch, as well as a couple other places. Since D1 you've been among the top of my suspects.

Either way this works out, I think the Vaya situation indicates a need to out lurkers better in the future, but other than his play yesterday there's no particular evidence. And of he and Gorrad yesterday, Gorrad was the one most anti-town.

Vote Almaster

Good game, all.

[charter]

Vote Count

AlmasterGM - 1 (Vaya, ElectricBadger)

Vaya - 1 (AlmasterGM)

Not Voting

With 3 alive, it takes 2 to lynch!

AlmasterGM, LIEUTENANT - 5 - Town Cop lynched day five!
ElectricBadger, BOMB - Town PGO killed in endgame!

The MAFIA team of Vaya, Synx, and WeyounsLastClone win!

[charter]

I will post all the roles and night actions when I get back, feel free to discuss. Thank you all for playing and THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU ALL FOR NOT FLAKING. My last game I modded was plagued by flaking, so this was incredible. Thanks a lot!

[AlmasterGM]

Good game, everyone. Thanks to charter for being a fantastic mod!

[ElectricBadger]

Very good game, and yeah - awesome that no one dropped!

Thanks much for the great modding charter, you're really on top of stuff (and also thanks again for the help with other stuff).

Hurts to lose to lurker-scum though, have to say. Between that and the last NK, I was seriously considering Vaya for a bit. I finally decided it would just be my irritation showing through though.... All in all, well played on the part of the scum this game. I never suspected WLC either.

[Kast]

GG Charter. GG all. Congrats scum.

Post game, Charter explained that each role could not affect roles with a higher number (except the Spy). That was the missing element that balanced things.

The lurking for the win was unfortunate.

@Almaster-
One argument you could have tried was that Spy and Marshall are opposed pieces and so are probably on different teams. That seems stronger than the number pairs argument.

[Gorrad]

Good game everyone. I'm anxious to see what my role did...

[charter]

Roles:
Town

You are a

BOMB

. Any player who isn't a miner who targets you at night will be killed. You are aligned with the

TOWN

and win when all threats to the TOWN are eliminated.

Please confirm in the thread.

You are a

SPY

. You are a Tracker and each night you may attempt to track another player if you wish. If successful, you will be told the player/players that person targeted that night. You are aligned with the

TOWN

and win when all threats to the TOWN are eliminated.

Please confirm in the thread.

You are a

SERGEANT - 4

. You are a Jack of all trades and have three one-shot abilities. These abilities are cop, doctor, and vigilante. Each night during the game you may attempt to use one of these abilities on another player. Once you have attempted to use an ability, you may not use it again. You will not receive confirmation that any of these abilities were successful, except for the cop ability. If successful, you will be told if they are aligned with the TOWN or not. You are aligned with the

TOWN

and win when all threats to the TOWN are eliminated.

Please confirm in the thread.

You are a

COLONEL - 8

. You are a Vanilla Townie. Your only ability is your vote during the day. You are aligned with the

TOWN

and win when all threats to the TOWN are eliminated.

Please confirm in the thread.

You are a

MAJOR - 7

. You are a vigilante. Each night you may attempt to kill another player in the game. You are aligned with the

TOWN

and win when all threats to the TOWN are eliminated.

Please confirm in the thread.

You are a

MINER - 3

. Each night you may target another player to attempt to diffuse them. This action will only have any effect on a BOMB and you will not be given confirmation that you successfully diffused that player. You are aligned with the

TOWN

and win when all threats to the TOWN are eliminated.

Please confirm in the thread.

You are a

GENERAL - 9

. You are a Vanilla Townie. Your only ability is your vote during the day. You are aligned with the

TOWN

and win when all threats to the TOWN are eliminated.

Please confirm in the thread.

You are a

LIEUTENANT- 5

. You are a Vanilla Townie. Your only ability is your vote during the day. You are aligned with the

TOWN

and win when all threats to the TOWN are eliminated.

Please confirm in the thread.

You are a

LIEUTENANT- 5

. You are a Cop. Each night you may attempt to investigate a player. If successful, you will be told if they are aligned with the TOWN or not. You are aligned with the

TOWN

and win when all threats to the TOWN are eliminated.

Please confirm in the thread.

MAFIA

You are a

MARSHALL - 10

. You are a member of the

MAFIA

along with Synx and WeyounsLastClone. Each night one of you may attempt to kill another player instead of their normal night action (if they have one). You may talk with each other here during the night. You have no other abilities. You are aligned with the MAFIA and win when all other players are dead or nothing can prevent the same and at least one member of the MAFIA is still alive.

Please confirm in the thread.

You are a

MINER - 3

. You are a member of the

MAFIA

along with Vaya and WeyounsLastClone. Each night one of you may attempt to kill another player instead of their normal night action (if they have one). You may talk with each other here during the night. Each night you may target another player to attempt to diffuse them. This action will only have any effect on a BOMB and you will not be given confirmation that you successfully diffused that player. You are aligned with the MAFIA and win when all other players are dead or nothing can prevent the same and at least one member of the MAFIA is still alive.

Please confirm in the thread.

You are a

MAJOR - 7

. You are a member of the

MAFIA

along with Vaya and Synx. Each night one of you may attempt to kill another player instead of their normal night action (if they have one). You may talk with each other here during the night. You have no other abilities. You are aligned with the MAFIA and win when all other players are dead or nothing can prevent the same and at least one member of the MAFIA is still alive.

Please confirm in the thread.

Debonair Danny DiPietro (You are a GENERAL - 9. You are a Vanilla Townie. )
Vaya (You are a MARSHALL - 10. You are a member of the MAFIA)
AlmasterGM (You are a LIEUTENANT- 5. You are a Cop.)
Hoopla (You are a MAJOR - 7. You are a vigilante.)
Sajin (You are a LIEUTENANT- 5. You are a Vanilla Townie.)
ortolan (You are a SERGEANT - 4. You are a Jack of all trades )
ElectricBadger (You are a BOMB)
Kast (You are a SPY. You are a Tracker)
Synx (You are a MINER - 3. You are a member of the MAFIA)
dramonic (You are a COLONEL - 8. You are a Vanilla Townie.)
WeyounsLastClone (You are a MAJOR - 7. You are a member of the MAFIA)
Gorrad (You are a MINER - 3. Each night you may target another player to attempt to diffuse them.)


Yeah, I misspelled defuse as diffuse. Thought about posting an announcement about that, but didn't affect the game. Sorry about that.

[Gorrad]

What did the Miners /do/?

[charter]

Ok, Kast pointed this out, no one else really figured it out (while they were alive). Just like in the board game, your night action will only have an effect if the person you target is of lower or equal rank. Exceptions to this, anyone targeting the bomb died, except for miners, just like in the game. Instead of the miner killing the bomb, they just removed the PGO aspect to the role, and the bomb became a vanilla townie. The Spy could only successfully track the Marshall.

I actually thought this setup was balanced in favor of the mafia, but it was paramount that Vaya survived so long, because he was the only person that could kill everyone. dramonic and DDD were immune to NK's unless they were performed by Vaya. The scumteam sent Vaya to kill every time, following Synx's defusing attempt.

Also, had Gorrad not defused EB, the town would have almost certainly won despite mislynching in LYLO, since the town won if everyone died, whereas the mafia had to have a member left alive. I did this because of the possibility of the game coming down to a night with the PGO and one mafia left. If the mafia killed the PGO, both would die, and everyone would be dead. Tie games are for suckers and I thought the balance slightly favored scum, so they had the extra burden of keeping a member alive.


The JOAT was essentially useless. (Be glad you are a four though, you were originally a two)
The cop was half useful as a town confirmer. Not very useful for confirming scum since it would be successful on Synx.
The vig was by far the most powerful town role, able to kill 2/3's of the scumteam.
The tracker was the only role able to identify the marshall.
Both miners permanently removed the PGO aspect of the bomb, turning it in to a vanilla.

I purposefully put in the town-town pair of roles to eliminate a massclaim breaking the game. I was also considering telling the mafia that a 2 was a safeclaim, per Vi's suggestion, but decided against it at the last minute. There was really no rhyme or reason to which roles went with which numbers, other than to try and balance the game.

Night actions as soon as I dig them out of my pm box.

[charter]

Night Actions. Pretty sure these are right, let me know if I messed one up.

Night one

Hoopla vigs Kast - Success
Alamaster investigates Kast - Success
Gorrad defuses Alamaster - Failed
ortolan investigates Kast - Success
Kast investigates Gorrad - Fails (both from numbers and Kast dies)
Synx defuses DDD - Fails (not a bomb)
Vaya kills DDD - Success

Night two

Alamaster investigates ortolan - Success
ortolan vigs Weyouns - Failed (numbers)
Hoopla vigs Weyouns - Success
Vaya kills dramonic - Success
Gorrad defuses Vaya - Failed (not a bomb)

Night three

ortolan protects Gorrad - Success
Gorrad defuses EB - Success
Alamaster investigates Vaya - Failed (numbers)
Vaya kills ortolan - Success

Night four

Alamaster investigates Vaya - Failed (numbers)
Gorrad defuses Alamaster - Failed
Vaya kills Gorrad - Success

[charter]

Does anyone have any more questions? Any concerns/criticisms about the setup?

I think doing a large theme on this would be pretty cool too, yes/no? (Though this is likely not happening any time soon, supposed to be modding another large theme right now)

[Kast]

I think a 2-scout-cop who can investigate any number would have helped balance. That or a town role with setup information directly or indirectly pointing out the numbers rule.

[Gorrad]

Night four

Alamaster investigates Vaya - Failed (numbers)

Gorrad defuses Alamaster - Success

Vaya kills Gorrad - Success

?!?!?

[charter]

Whoops. Mistake.

[ElectricBadger]

The lack of information led to many misinterpretations, and was an issue for me. Being defused without either me or the miner knowing is rough. It would be good to at least hint at the numbers rule (a different message? "so and so resisted your effort" rather than just failing?). I still feel a town miner with a town bomb is a strange combo.

Properly spelling Defuse *Grins*

[Vaya]

Good Game everyone. This was actually my first game as scum and the first game I've won on this site.

And for the record, I was sincere when I said that my lurking had basically nothing to do my alignment. Its a recent bad habit that's been happening with me lately in all of my games that I need to break. I wasn't doing it purposely because I was scum.

Also, had Gorrad not defused EB, the town would have almost certainly won despite mislynching in LYLO, since the town won if everyone died, whereas the mafia had to have a member left alive. I did this because of the possibility of the game coming down to a night with the PGO and one mafia left. If the mafia killed the PGO, both would die, and everyone would be dead. Tie games are for suckers and I thought the balance slightly favored scum, so they had the extra burden of keeping a member alive.

This would actually have been the case? I was under the impression that scum would automatically endgame in this situation without even having to target or blowing up the bomb. It your rules of course though so I guess I was lucky that Gorrad diffused him.

[Vaya]

I also just realized that I was basically the mafia godfather, completely immune to investigations(aside from the tracker) and kills. I was under the impression that I was a simple goon this whole game.

[Kast]

@EB-
To be fair, the confirmation of Gorrad's question on D1 was a hint at the numbers rule.

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

Anyways, I went back through the earlier posts looking for habits I've come to associate with the person having a higher probability of being scum and found five people who I think are a cut above... Synx, Vaya, EB, Gorrad, and Hoopla.

For now I believe Gorrad's early behavior with the breadcrumbing (and what's the point of breadcrumbing if no one is likely to decipher the meaning of your crumb or that it's so broad that it could be multiple things) to be unlikely to be more likely to be town than scum. Hoopla's post read very neutral right now to me so for now she rest towards the bottom of this list. I don't like EB's quick self meta defense, but I don't have much room to talk as I've done the same thing as town.

Which leaves Synx and Vaya as the two people I believe most likely to be scum. Of the two I think Synx is currently the better choice...

Vote: Synx

Course I missed on WLC, but he was easily found after defending Synx.

I was also extremely annoyed the last two days when the town decided that outguessing the mod was a sound scum hunting technique. I know I was dead like four days before that, but I thought I'd made it clear that trying to pick apart the setup like that was going to fail and fail hard.

[Vaya]

I was also extremely annoyed the last two days when the town decided that outguessing the mod was a sound scum hunting technique. I know I was dead like four days before that, but I thought I'd made it clear that trying to pick apart the setup like that was going to fail and fail hard.

I agree. I would never have done it if I was town.

[ortolan]

mmm, good game

I assumed the whole stratego element was irrelevant the whole game. The scum seemed to have no difficulty making a kill each night and both my investigation and apparently vig went through.

I actually initially thought the way it would work is if you say tried to kill a piece of a higher number than you, it would kill you instead, which seems more in line with how actual stratego works.

I agree it would have been nice to know how exactly the stratego element was implemented. I think it was too hard to guess that and that was very likely going to be integral to the game. Also the whole miner/bomb thing served as a red herring for the town- the whole one scum miner one town miner just for a PGO seemed like a bizarre combination of roles.

Without knowing the restrictions on the roles I think town counter-claiming and lynching each other was inevitable. When there's a claimed PGO, JOAT, vig, cop, tracker and "defuser" all in one setup I would always take at least one of them to be lying; if only because 99% of the time this will be the case.

[charter]

The lack of information led to many misinterpretations, and was an issue for me. Being defused without either me or the miner knowing is rough. It would be good to at least hint at the numbers rule (a different message? "so and so resisted your effort" rather than just failing?). I still feel a town miner with a town bomb is a strange combo.

Properly spelling Defuse *Grins*

Originally, the bomb was going to be a third party role that could be recruited by the defusers. That's why there is one on each side. After a while, that idea got scrapped and the bomb became a PGO. I thought I could just keep the defusers in and change them to just make the bomb a vanilla. I really loathe PGO's, but the bomb is custom made to be one, so I put it in anyway.

This would actually have been the case? I was under the impression that scum would automatically endgame in this situation without even having to target or blowing up the bomb. It your rules of course though so I guess I was lucky that Gorrad diffused him.

Yes, most games it wouldn't, but I specifically crafted the win conditions so that in this scenario, the town still won. I figured that would be perfectly fine because the mafia team had a defuser of their own.

The reason I didn't say anything about abilities only working on numbers of equal or lower value was because that would pretty much confirm the 10 as scum in the event of a massclaim of any form. They would have to know to try and make up a fakeclaim, which I didn't like. I spent quite a bit of time making sure that a massclaim of any sort wouldn't break the setup and the only way for town to win would be scumhunting. I see what you're saying about all the power roles though. I think that scum killing off the high numbers that all actions would fail on really hurt you guys in that respect. But yeah, I suppose I should have tried to figure out a way of hinting at the Stratego element harder.