This most recent line of questions has been mostly aimed at determining if charter is just lost since he went back on his full bore attack on hohum, or if he is just lost and feeling about.Amished wrote:@VP: Who else are you looking for more information from other than kittymo, if anyone?
Mostly active lurking/joking around.VP Baltar wrote:Charter, what is your assessment of Amished's posts before he went V/LA?
Scien. He seems to think hohum is making sense.Amished wrote:@Charter: I thought you were more logical early on, though I disagree with you about VP being scum so far. Who is your nominal choice for hohum's partner?
First. You have posted before that you are sure Hohum is scum, and you were just looking elsewhere to find a partner. Second. Hohum's not even a real suspect of yours? Third. How am I lost. I am asking questions in your general direction, and I am presented with avoidance. If you are town, wouldn't you typically answer were you could? Even though you decided to answer some of my concerns this time around, you conveniently avoided a few points of mine, and left them unanswered. What do you expect me to make of that?Charter wrote:I am ~50% sure it is Balter and Amished. Scien is just totally lost.
Why?Charter wrote:Dramonic is obviously town.
LOL. I actually agree there, although it doesn't lessen my suspicions of you.Charter wrote:This being said, we need more posts from both Amished and Kittymo.
The town is more than just you. So, you don't like talking to Hohum, that's fair. But how do you think a silent player would help the town? Don't you need to gather all the information that you can get?Charter wrote:[On wanting Hohum to not talk in thread] I gain much enjoyability from the game. I do not value his opinions, and hence I lose nothing.
Woah... that almost makes sense, and is actually one of the first logical attempts you have made so far (not criticizing, I'm actually impressed). So. You are not sure of him. How do you plan to become more sure of him? Especially when you want to do so while not talking to him?Charter wrote:I don't really care to hear more from him. Not sure of his role. If he keeps posting like that, and is town, he is creating a giant wall of idiocy for scum to hide behind. He will mislynch himself. If he just stops posting, it becomes more difficult for him to do that, while at the same time, everyone else is free to hunt scum.
Well unless, of course, he is scum. In that case you are just actively ignoring a scummy player so that you won't comment on how he is scummy to the town.Charter wrote:Once I just ignore his terrible posts, and focus on the rest of the game, scumhunting actually became much easier.
Something you do in every game I have played with you so far... just so you know.Hohum wrote:you're manufacturing suspicion. Big no-no for a town-aligned player.
Wrong. Wrong. Wrong. I have a suspicion that he lied in thread when he said that he got his PM before the thread was created. I think that he slipped when he said that he "went to the thread" and "the thread wasn't there" in the same sentence. I have CONCEDED the latter slip since it is impossible to prove. However the first claim still stands.Amished wrote:@Scien: You look like you're trying to hop on small semantic/syntax problems to lynch somebody, instead of looking more towards motivations. This ties directly into my acronym that I put towards Hohum where I put you and him as scumbuddies. You hopping on where hohum had voted does not help your case. Who else are you suspicious of now that I'm back and have been V/LA and notified the thread on my own and by the mod.
Way to reverse again. Not sure that Hohum is scum? Think that it is Amished and Balter? Oh, you said that Amished being V/LA changed things? Did it change things enough for you to go back to someone else scum? Fickle much?Charter wrote:[On Hohum's scum partner] Scien. He seems to think hohum is making sense.
I've already explained this. After he pushed all his crap, I thought he was scum. Once I reread with a clear head and read that game balter posted, I don't think he's scum anymore. You're lost because A) you're convinced I'm scum (I'm not by the way), B) you're ignoring everything in the game other than really blatent things you can pick out in the thread, that really have nothing to do with anything, and C) obsessing on things like 'charter ignores hohum's posts'. If there's a question you need answered, let me know and I'll answer, but I'm not going to do a giant quote war.Scien wrote:First. You have posted before that you are sure Hohum is scum, and you were just looking elsewhere to find a partner. Second. Hohum's not even a real suspect of yours? Third. How am I lost. I am asking questions in your general direction, and I am presented with avoidance. If you are town, wouldn't you typically answer were you could? Even though you decided to answer some of my concerns this time around, you conveniently avoided a few points of mine, and left them unanswered. What do you expect me to make of that?
Dramonic is really easy to tell if he's town or scum. He's town.Why?Charter wrote:Dramonic is obviously town.
I already said, he isn't mislynching himself if he's town. No, getting people to spam the thread isn't an effective way of finding scum.Scien wrote:But how do you think a silent player would help the town? Don't you need to gather all the information that you can get?
Look at his votes.Scien wrote:How do you plan to become more sure of him? Especially when you want to do so while not talking to him?
He was asking who I'd pick to be hohum's partner. If hohum is scum, I think you're his partner. I don't see what there isn't to understand about that. I'm still voting Balter, but Amished's post was really town, so I'm not sure if he's Balter's buddy. I don't see a change back to someone else there. You're inventing these contradictions.Way to reverse again. Not sure that Hohum is scum? Think that it is Amished and Balter? Oh, you said that Amished being V/LA changed things? Did it change things enough for you to go back to someone else scum? Fickle much?Charter wrote:[On Hohum's scum partner] Scien. He seems to think hohum is making sense.
Why on earth would you encourage this type of play? Instead of bickering with him, I'm ignoring him. You said yourself, he gets himself lynched for his bad play. That's what I'm trying to avoid if he's town since there's little margin for error. Why are you criticizing me for trying to avoid this by ignoring his posts?Besides all that I am going to level with the town straight here. I am trying something completely different here. I have not played a game yet with Hohum were he wasn't town, and didn't play like this. In our past games, I fought him long and hard about his play style, his methods of pressuring, his weak claims, and strong attacks. In the end that didn't serve the town well to attack him for that due to him eventually getting lynched for it while he was town. In this game I am actively doing the opposite. I am trying to aid in the pressure he is generating. Even while keeping a close eye on him.
Why does this make him scum?scien wrote:Back to me:
I am suspicious of Dramonic: I think he actively lied in thread, and I want to lynch him on this alone. Townies have no reason to lie. This has nothing to do with syntax. This has nothing to do with psychology. This is purely due to him "not finding the thread" after he got his PM, when the freggin thread would have been in the top 5 most recent threads at least, if he was as quick at checking as he suggested. The syntax thing just drives it home to me, even if it is weak enough that I can't use it to build my case to you.
If I miss a question, point it out and I'll answer it. My stance on hohum is this: I thought he was scum after his line of wrong/bad posts, I reread a while later and read the game balter posted, I wasn't very sure after that, and I saw something from Balter I thought was scummy.Scien wrote:I am suspicious of Charter: He has avoided some of my questions, even if in the same breath he answered others. He suspects Hohum, then he doesn't, then he does but won't vote, then he doesn't, then he does again. Sounds like a freggin flag in the wind.
http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=11828scien wrote:Oh and what is Rotm?
Nope. I am sure Dramonic is scum. I am examining you. There is a difference. True or false, you think anyone questioning you thinks you scum or is scum? [not rhetorical]Charter wrote:A) you're convinced I'm scum (I'm not by the way)
I am ignoring nothing. Where am I ignoring things? [not rhetorical]Charter wrote:B) you're ignoring everything in the game other than really blatent things you can pick out in the thread, that really have nothing to do with anything
Wrong again. Up till recently you two have focused on each other. I care not about that. However I do care about your apparent desire to ignore information. Be it certain questions I ask of you, Hohum's points or whatever. I don't care if you ignored everyone in the game, I would call you out for it. It doesn't matter that your main target for ignoring at the moment is Hohum.Charter wrote:C) obsessing on things like 'charter ignores hohum's posts'.
First why do you think that he is easy to read. Second, you don't think he could learn from his previous mistakes and improve?Charter wrote:Dramonic is really easy to tell if he's town or scum.
I have already said this, and tried to question you on it in different words, but apparently I am not getting through to you. You claim to not know his role. If he doesn't talk you will never find his role out. You as a townie should not be comfortable with this, especially since you seem to have so much grief with him. You suggesting otherwise A) suggests you KNOW he is protown, or B) you don't need to hunt. Neither of those suggest you have a pro-town role.Charter wrote:I already said, he isn't mislynching himself if he's town.
In your opinion what if a scum is the one doing the spamming? If a scum is giving you information like a fire hose, how does it hurt town?Charter wrote:No, getting people to spam the thread isn't an effective way of finding scum
Good answer. Although, I have mentioned this in thread before. Where have you mentioned voting patterns in thread? I specifically remember back around a day ago when you were sure that Hohum was scum, and was withholding a vote because you wanted to look for his partner. Why were you not mentioning voting patterns there?Charter wrote:Look at his votes.
I disagree. LOL I guess I am taking a page out of your book, and not elaborating too much here until you ask a more pointed question.Charter wrote:You're inventing these contradictions.
How am I encouraging it? I am using it. Those are not the same thing.Charter wrote:Why on earth would you encourage this type of play?
Why on earth would you suggest this type of play?Charter wrote:Instead of bickering with him, I'm ignoring him.
Because you are picking one of two possibilities which you yourself say you are not sure of which is the case in this game. Yes. What you say makes sense if he is town. But, you don't know if he is town. He could be scum. If he is scum, you suggesting he doesn't talk, and you ignoring info he gives the town is the EXACT OPPOSITE of townieness.Charter wrote:That's what I'm trying to avoid if he's town since there's little margin for error. Why are you criticizing me for trying to avoid this by ignoring his posts?
As I have said before, townies would have NO REASON to lie in thread. Therefore liars are scum.Charter wrote:Why does this make him scum?
Sigh, fair. I'll go back through soon and catch the stuff I want you to answer by quoting it back to you.Charter wrote:If I miss a question, point it out and I'll answer it.
Nope. I am sure Dramonic is scum. I am examining you. There is a difference. True or false, you think anyone questioning you thinks you scum or is scum? [not rhetorical]Charter wrote:A) you're convinced I'm scum (I'm not by the way)
I am ignoring nothing. Where am I ignoring things? [not rhetorical]Charter wrote:B) you're ignoring everything in the game other than really blatent things you can pick out in the thread, that really have nothing to do with anything
Wrong again. Up till recently you two have focused on each other. I care not about that. However I do care about your apparent desire to ignore information. Be it certain questions I ask of you, Hohum's points or whatever. I don't care if you ignored everyone in the game, I would call you out for it. It doesn't matter that your main target for ignoring at the moment is Hohum.Charter wrote:C) obsessing on things like 'charter ignores hohum's posts'.
First why do you think that he is easy to read. Second, you don't think he could learn from his previous mistakes and improve?Charter wrote:Dramonic is really easy to tell if he's town or scum.
I have already said this, and tried to question you on it in different words, but apparently I am not getting through to you. You claim to not know his role. If he doesn't talk you will never find his role out. You as a townie should not be comfortable with this, especially since you seem to have so much grief with him. You suggesting otherwise A) suggests you KNOW he is protown, or B) you don't need to hunt. Neither of those suggest you have a pro-town role.Charter wrote:I already said, he isn't mislynching himself if he's town.
In your opinion what if a scum is the one doing the spamming? If a scum is giving you information like a fire hose, how does it hurt town?Charter wrote:No, getting people to spam the thread isn't an effective way of finding scum
Good answer. Although, I have mentioned this in thread before. Where have you mentioned voting patterns in thread? I specifically remember back around a day ago when you were sure that Hohum was scum, and was withholding a vote because you wanted to look for his partner. Why were you not mentioning voting patterns there?Charter wrote:Look at his votes.
I disagree. LOL I guess I am taking a page out of your book, and not elaborating too much here until you ask a more pointed question.Charter wrote:You're inventing these contradictions.
How am I encouraging it? I am using it. Those are not the same thing.Charter wrote:Why on earth would you encourage this type of play?
Why on earth would you suggest this type of play?Charter wrote:Instead of bickering with him, I'm ignoring him.
Because you are picking one of two possibilities which you yourself say you are not sure of which is the case in this game. Yes. What you say makes sense if he is town. But, you don't know if he is town. He could be scum. If he is scum, you suggesting he doesn't talk, and you ignoring info he gives the town is the EXACT OPPOSITE of townieness.Charter wrote:That's what I'm trying to avoid if he's town since there's little margin for error. Why are you criticizing me for trying to avoid this by ignoring his posts?
As I have said before, townies would have NO REASON to lie in thread. Therefore liars are scum.Charter wrote:Why does this make him scum?
Sigh, fair. I'll go back through soon and catch the stuff I want you to answer by quoting it back to you.Charter wrote:If I miss a question, point it out and I'll answer it.
Why are you voting for me then? Twice. You're almost certainly wrong about dramonic though. False.Scien wrote:Nope. I am sure Dramonic is scum. I am examining you. There is a difference. True or false, you think anyone questioning you thinks you scum or is scum? [not rhetorical]
You haven't said anything about Kittymo or Amished. Why aren't you questioning them and giving them a reason to post? Doesn't seem like an effective way of getting as much info as you can, though when hohum posts useless posts, you criticize me for ignoring them. But you're ignoring two players! This is just the easy answer for me to give (still true though), by missing things, I meant stuff like Balter hiding behind me when questioning hohum. I see he's also hidden behind you as well, looks like you missed that too. You know, ACTUALLY scummy things.I am ignoring nothing. Where am I ignoring things? [not rhetorical]Charter wrote:B) you're ignoring everything in the game other than really blatent things you can pick out in the thread, that really have nothing to do with anything
They really don't tell you if someone's posts are town motivated or scum motivated. Like now, for instance, I'd be giving all the same answers regardless of alignment, asking 20 questions isn't as useful as one really good question.Why are the things I am looking at meaningless? [not rhetorical]
Ok, I think I've found the root of this disagreement. Information is not the same as MOAR WORDS PLZ. Typing as much as you can is not information and is bad for finding scum. Doesn't matter who is typing a lot.In your opinion what if a scum is the one doing the spamming? If a scum is giving you information like a fire hose, how does it hurt town?Charter wrote:No, getting people to spam the thread isn't an effective way of finding scum
You have much to learn.As I have said before, townies would have NO REASON to lie in thread. Therefore liars are scum.Charter wrote:Why does this make him scum?
Except I don't think it was a mistake. I think it was a lie. And a lie deserves a policy lynch.Dramonic wrote:You know, instead of latching onto a single mistake I did you ought to try to broaden your view. You've yet to comment on Kitty Amished and VP.
See. This is a good question. Let me ask another to start off. Hypothetical, you are the last to confirm, and someone comes out and attacks you for it. Would you say a typical response was that would to just comment on that being WIFOM and a null tell, or would you try to provide an excuse? The fact that he came up with an excuse is strange to me alone. (Why take the safe path that should anger no one, when in fact you should be suspicious of me tossing out WIFOM arguments against you)Amished wrote:Why would scum make so obvious of a lie and get caught through out of thread things?