Open 173: Pie E7 Game over

[hohum]

/confirm

Someone's a bit eager it seems...hehehe!

[hohum]

Also, /wave to everybody but KittyMo, I've played/seen you all before <3

kittymo sucks

[hohum]

V nz gur pbc

[hohum]

Vote: Amish Ed

because I never get tired of that joke.

[hohum]

IT'S NOT EVEN FUNNY!

plea to emotion

[hohum]

IT'S NOT EVEN FUNNY!

says the man with an amish guy for an avatar

[hohum]

@Hohum: Why did you change your reason for attacking my "not even funny" comment? Is it cause I'm emotional or amish?

I thought of a better joke after the first post.

You're getting a little defensive.

[hohum]

I like scien's points against dramonic. I'm done toying with the Amish for now.

Unvote, Vote Dramonic

If you think this is defensive, wait til I get my Amish body armor.. (day 2 upgrade, it's in the mod notes..)

Shut up and hammer, scum.

[hohum]

Also, why should I go L-1 on Dram just because "we should lynch him"?

VP, why do you agree?

Shut up and hammer, scum.

[hohum]

it's going to be entertaining watching charter moot a pressure wagon to come after me.

FoS: charter

for the unvote before dramonic has chimed in.

[hohum]

what question?

[hohum]

The one I haven't asked yet: Why did you feel that you needed to go to L-1 on Dram?

Thank you for at least admitting that you were falsely accusing me of question dodging.

I'd rather wait for both charter and dramonic to chime in before I answer; though I will give you a little taste just so you don't accuse me of any tom foolery later:

ILPWEWTSOPOBSDT

And:

TIASPSISQHIWBOTTS

[hohum]

ILPWEWTSOPOBSDT

I like pressure wagons even when they start on page one because scum drop tells (under pressure).

TIASPSISQHIWBOTTS

This is a seven player setup. If someone quick hammers it will be obvious that they're scum. (this is something that's also been pointed out once already)

Because it immediately becomes lylo. Scum have a 40% chance of nailing a powerrole. It's not terribly difficult to talk yourself out of the inevitable policy lynch that people will try and force on you day two. You can always just be like 'oh I didn't see the votecount' and there are ALWAYS people who aren't comfortable policy lynching like that.

Town is left with trying to figure out the scum's partner with no info.

You're thinking about this all wrong. If we go into lylo tomorrow because scum quick hammers we've outed scum, and that's sort of the point. We won't be in lylo anymore after that.

The thing people consistently forget about a 7P game is that we get an EXTRA mislynch if we catch scum. I'll gladly sacrifice anyone except the cop in order to net scum because we'll be ahead at that point anyways.

Further experience tells me that scum like to fight this point in these small setups tooth and nail. I for one am not going to tolerate fear mongering about the big bad lylo monster. How exactly do you propose that we go about scum hunting?

Unvote, Vote charter

[hohum]

Um, no. We get one mislynch. If we mislynch twice, it is game over. Read the rules and get back to me.

I know the rules. Your inability to grasp the basic mechanics of this setup is astounding. If we catch 1 of the two scum the scum have to drive us down to a 1:1 endgame, hence we get 2 mislynches instead of 1.

Do the math and get back to me before you decide to make snide and ignorant comments like this.

Hohum, why do you switch your vote all over the place?

It's the only tool I have to work with.

How exactly do you propose that we go about scum hunting?

That wasn't a rhetorical question, especially not after a comment like that.

Why did you stop voting dramonic?

RTFT:

it's going to be entertaining

watching charter moot a pressure wagon

to come after me.

[hohum]

It's a bit sad that Hohum can directly predict Charter's behaviour.

that's because obvscum are so predictable.

[hohum]

notice how he's refusing to point out why I'm being ignorant and trying to change the topic by going on a lurker hunt.

[hohum]

Prediction: kittymo appears in thread and sides against me

[hohum]

notice how he's refusing to point out why I'm being ignorant and trying to change the topic by going on a lurker hunt.

You should probably just stop posting. It is impeding the process of finding scum.

says the man that tore down a dramonic wagon.

Why are you now so interested in dramonic?

Also, you're dodging questions:

How exactly do you propose that we go about scum hunting?

That wasn't a rhetorical question, especially not after a comment like that.

Third time I've asked this question now. Are you even READING the thread?

[hohum]

@mod: Please prod charter

[hohum]

I'm not reading your posts very carefully, that's for sure.

Clearly. Duly noted.

That's a dumb question, but whatever.

It's not a dumb question, since you clearly disapprove of my method of scum hunting. Since I'm so high on your suspect list (which mostly seems to be based on my play stile) why don't you come after me instead of dramonic? It reeks of a diversion tactic. "Gee, I'm under heat so I'll feed someone else to the lions."

Ask questions, look at votes, lynch scum.

Why are you voting me again? Still clinging to two mislynches?

Are you being purposefully dense?

[hohum]

Ok, policy ignoring hohum's posts.

You're ignoring me because you know I'm right. You're stubbornly refusing to admit that you're wrong about the setup, which tells me you're doing it on purpose and it wasn't an "oops I forgot to think ahead" mistake.

You've admitted that you're not actually reading the thread but merely skimming through it.

This thread needs more charter lynching.

[hohum]

Ok, policy ignoring hohum's posts.

You're ignoring me because you know I'm right. You're stubbornly refusing to admit that you're wrong about the setup, which tells me you're doing it on purpose and it wasn't an "oops I forgot to think ahead" mistake.

You've admitted that you're not actually reading the thread but merely skimming through it.

This thread needs more charter lynching.

Alright, last time I respond, I promise.

EXPLAIN IN CLEAR ENGLISH HOW TOWN GETS TWO MISLYNCHES IF SCUM QUICKHAMMER TOWN DAY ONE. GO ON.

Now you're getting emotional. Tsk Tsk.

Scum hammer town, Scum NK town.

Day 2: (5:2) (lylo)

Town lynch obvscum, Scum NK town

Day 3 (4:1) (no more lylo, genius)

4:1 == room for another mislynch before lylo

Town mislynch again, Scum NK town

Day 4 (2:1) (lylo)

Are you done being assy now?

[hohum]

you're right.

Scum hammer town, Scum NK town.

Day 2: (3:2) (lylo)

Town lynch obvscum, Scum NK town

Day 3 (2:1) (still lylo)

Town mislynch again, Scum NK town, scum win

But this scenario also takes the town PRs completely out of the picture. Scum would need to get extremely lucky for this to happen.

Bottom line is nobody was going to quick hammer this early in the game, so for you to sit there and tear down wagons and build cases based on game theory is anti-town at best and scummy as hell at worst.

More charter lynching please.

[hohum]

everything? No, absolutely not. Just because you're correct about the setup doesn't mean that you're not A) arguing theory (I still say that L-1 isn't a bad thing and my position is internally consistent), your question dodging, ignoring me, admittal to skimming the thread, diversion tactics with your dramonic vote etc.

All still stands

[hohum]

the change of vote from dramonic to me is definitely opportunistic and OMGUSy. You're capitalizing on a mistake.

My original reason for voting you was not the game setup debate but because you actively tore down dramonic's wagon.

[hohum]

okay so you didn't vote, but you are pushing for my lynch. Might as well be voting me.

[hohum]

scien just made an excellent point about the role PMs.

I actually confirmed before I received my role PM because I was trying to be a smart ass. I know for a fact that the role PMs went out after the thread was created because I was talking to the mod as she created the thread.

[hohum]

I'm more interested in why hohum was so diehard on the two mislynch thing when it was obviously not the case.

mistake

[hohum]

You're interpretation of what I was trying to say is dead wrong. I readily admitted I made the mistake as soon as I realized charter was right. The part about not figuring power roles into it is more about the notion that it's okay to put people at L-1 (which I still believe) than about mislynches.

Further, I've listed about half a dozen other reasons to vote charter. Charter on the other hand is holding on to exactly one reason to vote me.

[hohum]

What do you think of Scien's argument for a dramonic lynch?

I think it would have been a good argument to make had charter not decided to moot dramonic's pressure wagon. Right now dramonic has the luxury of making a calm and collected argument.

It would have been useful to use scien's argument to pressure dramonic into dropping tells.

I'd rather lynch charter right now so I can get a better read on dramonic.

[hohum]

Vote: Hohum

His behaviour toward my early wagon was scummy, and now he's gone in lurking (like half the player list)

uh lurking? No.

Last time I posted was friday. Friday (last I checked) was right before the weekend. I do occasionally do other things besides sit in front of my computer over the weekend, so why don't you pick another lame reason to vote me.

But the original reason you found him scummy was proved erroneous, correct? You guys were having a pretty heated back and forth yesterday, how many of your listed reasons do you today think are indicative of him being scum?

The original reason for my vote was based on his unvote of dramonic. He made the unvote before Dramonic appeared in thread.

I decided to run with that. I then kept the pressure on under a false premise.

You could argue that the two are related, but I disagree. Even if you want to go with that argument, he dropped other scum tells in the process (question dodging, outright refusal to respond to me, answering questions on my behalf, telling me to STFU, very emotional and OMGUSy responses, etc, etc) so IMHO it was a productive argument.

Bottom line is charter needs to be lynched.

I've got my money on charter+dramonic right this second.

Are you making these "predictions" just so if something you don't want to happen happens, you can say "haha I predicted it because you're obvscum?"

I was just trying to scumbait you. Please keep posting, because I have a null read on you.

[hohum]

You got a prod, therefore you lurked, it's not hard math, especially if you're only reason is "I was doing other stuff." It ain't hard to post "away for the weekend"

Wrong.

I don't owe you an explanation if I'm going to disappear for a small amount of time. You're not the despot here and I don't answer to you; furthermore, I'm still within the stated posting guidelines of this game.

The mod's prod was simply out of curtosey.

Bolded part is for you:

3. Please try to maintain more than the minimum standard for activity levels which is currently 1 post every 48 hours. If you go 48 hours without posting you will be prodded (as many times as necessary) and if you go 72 hours without posting you will be replaced.

Exceptions will be made for low activity periods such as weekends and holidays.

[hohum]

hohum is a total idiot

I'll go ahead and ad ad-hom to my list of reasons to push for your lynch. You're clearly incapable of having a conversation with me. Perhaps if you would spend a few minutes to humor me and give me a reason that you're not scum I'd be more inclined to listen to what you have to say to me.

Instead what you've been doing since the game began is throwing a temper tantrum in-thread. Calling me names, telling me to shut up. You're clearly have no capacity for conflict resolution and are completely incapable of having a civilized conversation with anyone. How is that even remotely pro-town?

[hohum]

I don't owe you an explanation if I'm going to disappear for a small amount of time. You're not the despot here and I don't answer to you; furthermore, I'm still within the stated posting guidelines of this game.

I'm not flaming you and in no way have I said you owe me an explanation. If you can do an effort to avoid being so high strung it'd be nice.

All I said was that you were absent for a period of time which you could have justified without going into details.


@Charter: If you don't plan to actually read what Hohum says then you're being excessively anti-town. Play the game well; put your frustration aside.

I'm not high strung, you're manufacturing suspicion. Big no-no for a town-aligned player. It's not good enough for you to come after me based on the mistakes I've actually made -- you've got to invent reasons to justify your vote.

The premise of your vote is based on the fact that I'm lurking. You peppered in some bullshit about scummy behavior toward your wagon early on but notedly refused to go into any specific details, great way to cast doubt on me without actually giving me the opportunity to respond.

[hohum]

You know, instead of latching onto a single mistake I did you ought to try to broaden your view. You've yet to comment on Kitty Amished and VP.

Trying to draw attention away from your scum partner?

[hohum]

You think I'm scum with Charter now?

You're clearly NOT paying attention to the thread because this is the second time I've insinuated such a pairing.

Didn't you just admit to "manufaturing" suspicion on Charter that you later felt was substantiated?

Do you not see the difference between disagreements over game theory and something as mega-bullshit as a lurker wagon on someone who isn't really lurking?

Further, had I realized I was misinterpreting the setup mechanics I might have found a different reason to pressure charter as dramonic seems incapable of doing to me. Dramonic seems to favor deflection tactics and chainsaw-defense of charter over serious discussion.

@Charter: Hohum and Scien. Scien for his attack on Dram (Dram's action that Scien is harping on isn't scummy in my eyes, so the attack, considering the duration and intensity of it make me think he's trying to look pro-town by attacking something little for a long time, without looking at other people as much). Hohum for his first early posts, looks like scum to me. I could see them being scumbuddies as well.

@Scien: Don't answer my question with a question right away. Both could be used depending on the player and the situation. There is no clear cut "right" answer because if there was, no scum would be dumb enough to use the other answer as the other one would be "right" 100% of the time and would make them appear insanely townie (which is the point of being mafia).

Scien and Hohum are still scum.

You need to stop making vague posts and figure out a way to insert yourself into the discussion somehow.

@hohum: Most likely scum? Charter, where your vote is or Dram? Or somebody else?

Clearly charter and dramonic are my top two suspects, as I've been ranting on for a number of pages now about how we should lynch charter, and going back and fourth with dramonic.

Are you being purposefully dense?

[hohum]

@Baltar: I'm glad you pointed out the fact that charter got so emotional towards the beginning of the game. That should send up red flags and certainly warrant additional scrutiny. A town-aligned player has little reason to get emotional over anything.

@Hohum: Stop being so aggressive. I'm not entitled to remember everything you say, just like you're not entitled to answer to me.

Aggressive is the One True Way(tm) to out scum. This passive-aggressive bullshit play of yours is going to get you lynched. Grab your balls and go after someone instead of sitting on the sidelines playing victim all the time. If you don't think charter makes a good lynch you need to explain why. If you think I'm the better lynch target then you need to make a case on me which needs to be based on something other than vague accusatory statements and a non-lurker lurker wagon.

Moreover, you DO need to pay attention to the thread, and I will call you out on it if you continue to skim. You can't possibly make a decent case on someone if you refuse to pay attention to the thread. This is scummy even in the best of light.

[hohum]

I find my read on charter to be improving somewhat. On the other hand my read on dramonic just went off of a cliff.

Unvote, Vote dramonic

[hohum]

] I'm not entitled to remember everything you say,

The fact that I've called you scummy, and paired you twice should certainly be (at minimum) noteworthy.

[hohum]

@hohum: What do you find vague about my posts? Care to actually question me to see if I can clear something up for you or just gonna say I'm being vague and ignore me?

You made a blanket statement about my early posts without going into any detail which (conveniently for you) leaves me without a way to respond to you. Vague and scummy.

Also, there's no one-true-way to out scum. Liar.

I'd be more than happy to sit here and debate game theory with you all day long. I just hope you're not as hot headed and emotional as charter is.

EBWOP: Hohum, since your read on Charter is improving (I'm assuming this means he's looking more pro-town) how does that affect your stance on Dram as you've paired them recently?

I pair people off because it makes telling alignments apart easier. It doesn't mean I'm always right. dramonic looks scummy as hell to me right now so I'm eagerly awaiting his response to my posts.

I'm starting to think dramonic's play is less about defending a potential partner and more about appearing to be aligned against a mis-lynch.

[hohum]

@mod:

Can we get a replacement for KittyMo please? She's obviously disinterested in this game and I don't want a worthless player dragging us down.

[hohum]

@hohum: Fine, ISO 7 is why I think you're scum. What points of Sciens did you like? Clearly you still like Dram to lynch, so say more to that effect?

I've been giving reasoning for my dramonic vote for the last few pages. I can't help it you're not paying attention.

[hohum]

@hohum: Fine, ISO 7 is why I think you're scum. What points of Sciens did you like? Clearly you still like Dram to lynch, so say more to that effect?

I've been giving reasoning for my dramonic vote for the last few pages. I can't help it you're not paying attention.

To expand on this answer: I liked where scien was headed with his case on dramonic. The point he made about basically catching Dramonic in a lie is a huge, raging clue. I agree with him on this point in every way possible and didn't feel the need to expand on that too much. Instead I chose to direct some of my attention on charter instead.

Regarding Scien specifically: This new cuddly behavior is quite unlike his usual play style but that doesn't necessarily make him scummy, it simply warrants closer attention to detail in his posts. I'm quite positive that I'll have a concrete read on him after D1 is over with so I'm giving him a wide birth with which to work here.

A charter or dramonic flip will also reveal quite a lot about scien's alignment.

[hohum]

@hohum: so you strictly adhere to the LAL? Or just in this case you think his lie was a scum lie?

I don't strictly adhere to any policy lynches. Policy lynches are only useful when the town can't reach a lynch consensus on their own. Are you implying that I'm pushing for a policy lynch on dramonic?

A scum tell is a scum tell. He lied, period. There's also a multitude of other reasons why dramonic needs to be lynched.

[hohum]

Aggressive is the One True Way(tm) to out scum. This passive-aggressive bullshit play of yours is going to get you lynched.

Just like you jumping down everyone's throat and saying half the players aren't paying attention to your post will get you lynched.

I call them like I see them.

Grab your balls and go after someone instead of sitting on the sidelines playing victim all the time.

I'm not playing victim, I'm being voted over ridiculous, feeble assumption on Scien's part. That little LAL policy is a bunch of crap, anyone with half a decent mind knows it. I did not lie and that's all there is to it.

If you think the only reason I'm voting you is because you lied in thread then you're still not paying attention.

If you don't think charter makes a good lynch you need to explain why.

Oh, so I'm the one not paying attention to posts here? I already explained in post 11, 15 and 22.

Yes but so much has happened since then. Why are you simply ignoring everything else? Do you think it's pro-town to stand by convictions you had in the first 2 pages of the game and turn a blind eye to everything else?

If you think I'm the better lynch target then you need to make a case on me which needs to be based on something other than vague accusatory statements and a non-lurker lurker wagon.

Yeah, it's pretty vague to say "you put someone at L-1 on like, page 3", isn't it? Oh wait no, it's not.

So you're arguing my lynch based on a game theory disagreement. That's better than a policy lynch how?

Moreover, you DO need to pay attention to the thread, and I will call you out on it if you continue to skim. You can't possibly make a decent case on someone if you refuse to pay attention to the thread. This is scummy even in the best of light.

I love the selective bandwagonning here. I suppose since you don't miss a thing you must be aware there are others who intentionally avoid your post, but that's fine, huh?

[/quote]

s/others/other/

Further, he's already been scolded by me and several others for that, so what precisely is the problem here?

This thread needs more dramonic lynching please.

[hohum]

Charter: You sure do waffle a lot. In the space of 3 pages you've gone from saying I'm scummy to saying you have a town read on me and now I'm back to scum again.

Which is it? You have a bad read on me or you don't. It can't be both and it can't be either or when it suits your whims.

[hohum]

Charter: You sure do waffle a lot. In the space of 3 pages you've gone from saying I'm scummy to saying you have a town read on me and now I'm back to scum again.

Which is it? You have a bad read on me or you don't. It can't be both and it can't be either or when it suits your whims.

No, I said I'd hammer you cause you're an idiot. OMG NOT READING THE THREADZ. ZOMGZ YOURE SCUM.

And you're childish. You act like you're 12, not 22. Grow up.

[hohum]

Cause bandwagons are awesome. The bigger the better.

I also find hohum suspicious for putting dramonic in a position of great vulnerability so soon

Do you find hypocrisy to be a useful tool?

That being said, I do find dramonic suspicious (hasn't said anything yet this game), but enough for a lynch on page two? Please.

Wait a few pages and lets lynch him.

I'm not very sure of him being scum. I don't really care to hear more from him. Not sure of his role. If he keeps posting like that, and is town,

… A few other times where he has specifically said he no longer thinks I'm scummy, cut for brevity.

No, I said I'd hammer you cause you're an idiot. OMG NOT READING THE THREADZ. ZOMGZ YOURE SCUM.

This can only be interpreted one way: "Let's lynch hohum, I don't care if he's scum or not"

He's clearly aware that we only get one mislynch. He had to explain the mechanics of the setup to me.

… back to that whole hypocrisy thing again:

I also find hohum suspicious for putting dramonic in a position of great vulnerability so soon

Should we not find you suspicious for declaring your intention to hammer me?

You're definitely back in the scum column in my notes.

[hohum]

If you think the only reason I'm voting you is because you lied in thread then you're still not paying attention.

Correct me if I'm wrong, you've given four reasons for wanting me dead
1. The "lie"

Correct.

2. Deflection (You say that, but you haven't provided any post so that I may refute)

I'm specifically referring to post 192 here. You're trying (and it's a rather transparent effort too) to pull Scien's attention away from charter by feeding Kitty, Amish Ed or VP to him (basically almost anyone but charter)

4. Distancing himself from a mislynch (The two most probable lynches right now are me and you. Your arguement doesn't hold. What mislynch am I distancing myself from? again, see above)

You don't seem to understand the basic fundamentals of this game. Any time anyone decides to try and run a case up on someone it has the potential to end in a lynch. In context (with everything else) it appears as if you're hedging your bet (if charter flips town) and you're just simply chainsaw defending your partner (if he flips scum).

Basically: stop defending charter. It makes you look scummy as fuck either way he flips.

You say I'm manufacturing cases (or some similar expression) but you're doing exactly that.

Sorry, but "NO U" is not a valid defense.

3. Chainsaw-defense (see above, but more)

Yes but so much has happened since then. Why are you simply ignoring everything else? Do you think it's pro-town to stand by convictions you had in the first 2 pages of the game and turn a blind eye to everything else?

Was referring to ISO 12, 15 and 22, which spread to page 7 if I'm not mistaken.

Fine. I can accept this; however, you've taken this quote out of context but I'll go ahead and add it back. You're referring to the notion that I put fourth that your defense of charter is ill founded. The fact that you quoted it is proof in of itself that you are defending charter, which effectively moots point 3 above.

If you don't think charter makes a good lynch you need to explain why.

Oh, so I'm the one not paying attention to posts here? I already explained in post 11, 15 and 22.

Yes but so much has happened since then. Why are you simply ignoring everything else? Do you think it's pro-town to stand by convictions you had in the first 2 pages of the game and turn a blind eye to everything else?[/quote]

So you're arguing my lynch based on a game theory disagreement. That's better than a policy lynch how?

It's not theory disagreement, you'll ill find someone who thinking putting wagons at l-1 on page three, not even one day in the game, is anything protown. But if it can make you happier, you can add pure hypocrisy to my reasons to want to vote you.

It is a theory disagreement. The way one conducts one's self on a wagon has a everything to do with game theory. I scum hunt the way I do because it works for me and frankly, I don't give a shit how anti-town you think it is. You're just… simply.. wrong..

Not only are you dead fucking wrong here, I challenge you to push a lynch wagon on me based on my views of how to play this game, because it isn't going to bode well for you at all when I flip, and hopefully it will teach how to properly deal with people who have a different play style than you do in your next game.

[hohum]

screwed up that middle quote tag. The outer quote is supposed to be dramonic, but quote tag fail not withstanding.

[hohum]

I almost didn't notice that you forgot to add the fact that you're not paying attention whatsoever to the thread as one of my list of reasons to vote you, dramonic.

[hohum]

PZ: Thanks.

unvote

I'm willing to hammer.

@Charter: claim please

[hohum]

Yeah, I'm not claiming until someone other than Balter gives a reason for voting me. Pressure, no reason, and whatever the hell goes on in hohum's head are not reasons to hammer someone.

fine with me.

Vote: Chater

[hohum]

Dear town,

Vote Scien

That is all.

[hohum]

Dear town,

Vote Scien

That is all.

Math, hohum. We're in lylo dammit.

I'm doing the math, I've got a guilty result on him.

Thanks.

-Cop

[hohum]

I did breadcrum, twice.


I breadcrumbed my role before the game started and I breadcrumbed my intended target for investigation.

[hohum]

what a fucking joke

[hohum]

yes I gambled. Blame this loss squarely on me.

[hohum]

Yeah, that was too big of a gamble hohum. I think you guys could have caught me perhaps if you had really done some hardcore scum hunting today, but the quick hammer was rough on town.

I had 0 credibility left after charter flipped town after his tirade and I had my money on Scien+Dramonic.

I actually was | | that close to pushing dramonic under the bus.

Scien: I like your new play style anyways. Don't fix it.

[hohum]

I can't wait until charter chimes in with something profoundly ignorant to say. I don't really care what he has to say (I probably deserve to hear it), but I will say one thing to him: You need to spend less time arguing theory and more time scum hunting.

[hohum]

you're such a fucking baby. It's a game and I made some judgment mistakes. It happens, grow up.

[hohum]

you're such a fucking baby. It's a game and I made some judgment mistakes. It happens, grow up.

Maybe you should spend your time learning how not to play utterly terrible rather than continuing to insult people because they were right.

Maybe you should stop trying to flame-bait me and realize there's more to life than petty forum-kiddie drama. Maybe then your life will actually mean something.