/in-Vitational Game 5, Simon Mafia 2: Game Over before 832

[TDC]

I would have preferred if you kept your vote until Gurgi had decided whether he'd want to jump on, too. He kind of seemed to build up towards that.

[Elmo]

Ya, it's just ultra unclear who the non-Nuwen lynch is. We have.. 42 hours?

The reason I find Nuwen suspicious is her defence of Elmo yesterday. I'll elaborate on it more when Nuwen gets here/I have more time.

I think this would probably be good if it's not QFTing Goat.

[LlamaFluff]

I think I'm obligated to

Curiously, Fluff doesn't seem to be bothered by your lack of suspicion as much as he was by mine.

Two days untill deadline of D2 is way to far into the game to have that big of a question mark by anyone.

..?

Im somewhat bias given that im stubborn when I get an early feeling an nothing happens to change it, but you have done some things recently that at least involve a vote.

Falling back on a nuwen vote is something im completely fine with though. Search is back (yay) and there have been quite a few posts from her in other topics (both games and GD). Given that the mod claims he has prodded her, I would expect that it has been picked up.

Like most people im mostly working backwards with just finding town (FL and Batt, to a lesser extent DDD, LG and Elmo). Then I have the few gut ones that I cant find anything to back up... just annoying.

@mod

- I no longer need to be replaced.

[forbiddanlight]

I didn't say it was a bad lynch and if nothing better present itself then I'll make sure it gets to the needed 4 and/or 6 votes, just that even if she flips scum I'm not sure it tells us that much.

Fair, but what makes a Batt lynch more informative (and I quite possibly may have missed it, so if you can link a post that tells me I'd be very happy)

I hate to say this, but on Nuwen I really can't add anything except what Goat already said. He basically verbalized the better part of my thought process once you get past the reactionary "OMG DEFENSE OF SOMEONE ELSE!" crap.

[petroleumjelly]

Official Day Two Vote Count #5

3 Nuwen (forbiddanlight, SpyreX, Goatrevolt)
1 LlamaFluff (Lord Gurgi)
1 Lord Gurgi (Debonair Danny DiPietro)
1 TDC (LlamaFluff)

With

10

alive, it takes

6

to lynch and

4

to lynch at deadline. Deadline is September 22, 9:59 pm CDT.

Not Voting – 4 – Battousai, Elmo, Nuwen, TDC

---

LOCK COUNT

8 – Green (forbiddanlight, SpyreX, Lord Gurgi, Battousai, Debonair Danny DiPietro, Nuwen, Goatrevolt, TDC)
0 – Blue
0 – Red
0 – Yellow

Not Locking – 2 – Elmo, LlamaFluff

At nightfall, the floor to be locked is: GREEN.

[Goatrevolt]

Nuwen has posted in GD and been on AIM, I think. Not reading anything into that, personally.

I'm not reading much into it either, although I'm not comfortable allowing her to skate into endgame if she continues to play at the same rate she has been. If she has no intention of being replaced or actually stepping up her play, then I see no reason to not just lynch her now. If I don't have a chance to get a read on her alignment then I want her dead, especially in a game like this where scum are able to easily hide.

Battousai should probably also be on the town list fwiw.

Not sold enough to put him there yet. His play at the end of yesterday + the NK speculation strikes me as pro-town, but he hasn't exhibited any of the stronger town tells the other 4 on my list have.

The case against Nuwen is interesting

Interesting meaning...?

I'm pretty curious why I'm on the list, to be honest.

Because you seem to legitimately care about who we lynch, and seem legitimately interested in finding scum. When like half the game or more is either completely lurking or actively lurking, there isn't any incentive as scum to be active and try to pressure people.

I'm clearing DDD for a similar reason. Vote swapping based on new information, and actively pressuring players when scum have incentive to lurk.

Elmo: Why would you put yourself at slightly scummy? What about your play so far do you think others would find scummy?

[Battousai]

When I made that post, I was expecting Nuwen to come in. We'd have a tete-a-tete and my feelings would waver or grow. Since none of that happened, I'm still inclined to believe my D1 assessment that

"I think scum would be more inclined to defend actions, since they know it comes from a townie. Add in the fact that the townie they are defending is a leading wagon that seemed like it will come to fruition, makes it even more likely they will do this, to appear correct and townie in defending the actions."

Along with Patrick's death, I see Nuwen flipping scum to be likely.

Vote: Nuwen

[Elmo]

I should probably reread it, but: I think if I were to defend someone, I'd throw out whatever arguments might work, including "irrelevant reasoning" that had rhetorical value. I also think that "who are Elmo's partners" is okay in general, although it probably isn't valid in that situation - I don't think you could draw links between anyone and me at that point.

If her intention was to save you, she would have voted Zazie. If her intention was to stop a lynch on an inactive/lurker, she would have pushed people to vote elsewhere. Neither of those happened.

This is the bit that interests me. I think it's quite tough to find a viable non{me,Zazie} target at that point, but I generally agree that defend person X without pushing person Y is a tell. It's just a big unclear how she pushes a Zazie lynch while arguing against people wanting to lurkerlynch me. Occam's razor suggets "Zaz lurked more", but I'm not sure that would have much weight with e.f. Forbidden at the time. I dunno, what's a stronger line to take against Zazie than she did? What do you think about her point in that last sentance of 539? That looked at least a little relevant.

I guess the thing that gets me is her not voting for Zazie at any point. I did notice that at the time, chalked it up to absence iirc, but it is weird. Enough to make the case interesting and Nuwen not a ultra-horrible lynch, albeit not really one I'm enthusiastic about. This is where I mention rereading and how it never gets done. Yup.

I think I'm slightly scummy because I haven't done anything I'd consider townish, and (around the time when you asked) relatively little obvious effort to acquire reads on people. I think the way I didn't do anything but defend myself and refused to give reads when I might have been lynched Day 1 is more than a little reminiscent of scum not wanting to give anything away in the event they're lynched. There's no particular explanation of why I played the way I did day 1. I think my behaviour towards TDC is null if not slightly scummy... hard to exactly put my finger on why. I'm probably forgetting some stuff, I'm heading to bed soon.

Because you seem to legitimately care about who we lynch, and seem legitimately interested in finding scum.

I really don't see how that's true.

For all this, I still have a question mark about Gurgi, and to a lesser extent SpyreX. I keep going back and forth on the both of them.

[SpyreX]

Holy hell we have search backish. (I was trying to check Nu by post and that didn't seem to be working).

I'm still having molasses syndrome with this game and I can't pinpoint why. There's absolutely no "pop" in here. Instead of wildly being at each others throats is like we're around the great algonquin round table sipping sherry discussing the IDEA of someone being scum.

It scares me and I don't like it.

I'm thinking part of this is the apathy of the mini-lynch necessary at deadline. That, personally, is throwing me all off: scum can be way more low-key with votes than normal but parsing that from the ability to hand-wringing more from town drives me nuts.

With that said, reading Nu in isolation makes me a little happier with this lynch overall for a few reasons:

1.) The pressure on Batt early (4) when Batt, despite my earlier qualms, feels more towny as this progresses.

2.) Mechanics hunting (5, 6, 7)

3.) Voting Gurgi and then not really ever giving a valid response... into

4.) Lurking up until Elmogate which leads back into...

5.) Lurking.

I'm going to try and drag myself back into this game for reals, but god its hard. We need to shake things up, and soon.

That said: Not Voting – 3 – Elmo, Nuwen, TDC

At this point I dont care WHERE they go, just that they go. Votes, please.

[petroleumjelly]

I have considered trying to replace Nuwen, but I will say this plainly: not a single suitable player offered to replace LlamaFluff after over a week of waiting, so I am doubtful I will find a suitable replacement for Nuwen in the course of a day and a half. A suitable player must (i) have had no relations at all with any other /in-vitational, and (ii) must also be approved by all living players in the game. As things stand, I am not going to indefinitely prolong Day Two in the hopes of finding a replacement, so unless I say otherwise, please assume that the deadline will remain intact.

[TDC]

I would actually have found it strange if Nuwen

had

voted Zazie while trying to save Elmo from a lurker lynch. That would've been a blatant double standard?

[Goatrevolt]

I don't think I've ever had someone I think is town argue with me that I shouldn't think they are town...It boggles the mind. I think you felt town at the end of day 1. I think your play today has felt town, and for the reason that you seem to be the only player actively doing anything.

You are welcome to convince me otherwise, though.

I didn't think your lack of anything end of day 1 was you trying not to tie yourself to scum buddies. Your wagon and Zazie's were the same size, and Zazie always looked the more likely lynch based on public opinion. Then again, I'm speculating on why you did something, when you could simply explain it yourself. I mean, was not trying to tie yourself to scum buddies your reason for nothing end of day 1?

It seems as though you are trying to say that I should believe that is the reason you didn't provide anything at the end of day 1. But if that is not the real reason, then why should I have believed that it was? If it wasn't the real rationale behind your actions, then doesn't it stand to reason that we as a town should be able to determine that it wasn't your real reason? You're speculating poorly on why you think others should find you scummy and then wondering why I don't believe said speculation?

People are bad at self-evaluation. I think I look town every game I play, but yet my last game as town I had to fight tooth and nail to not get lynched despite a cop investigation pegging someone else as scum. I thought it was obvious that I was town, but it wasn't obvious to anyone else.

I would actually have found it strange if Nuwen had voted Zazie while trying to save Elmo from a lurker lynch. That would've been a blatant double standard?

Omission of anything regarding Zazie can basically be called that same double standard.

[Lord Gurgi]

A townie should be trying to convince people off their wagon

I'm sure you've played many many games. That sort of behaviour shuts me out. You actively repelling me is not conducive to scumhunting. Stop it.

What is the difference here. End of day 1 (quote 2) you tell Llama to stop trying to repel you off his wagon, and here you are calling him scummy for not trying to repel you off his wagon. Eh?

There

is

a difference between shutting me out, repelling me, and repelling me off his wagon. Repelling me is just ticking me off, shutting me out is preventing me from validating or changing my read. Trying to convince me off his wagon cannot be done while repelling me and shutting me out.

[Elmo]

It boggles the mind.

Maybe you can see why I'm unhappy with "Elmo would ___ as town" arguments.

you seem to be the only player actively doing anything.

But I got wagoned yesterday mostly for "not doing anything". I have a clear incentive to look like I'm doing something, which was one of the reasons why I talked to TDC. And I don't think that from the perspective of starting that interchange it holds any particular promise of actually being productive, indeed TDC was/is probably legitimately fed up because it was going nowhere. I don't see how that adds to my town credentials at all.

I didn't think your lack of anything end of day 1 was you trying not to tie yourself to scum buddies.

You don't have to think that. Specifically, you don't have to think it's the likeliest explanation; it can be very unlikely for that to be true, but I don't think you'd assert there's a 0% chance it's the reason. Say, 95% of the time when I do that, it's not related to alignment. As long as there's a small chance I did it because I was scum, and it doesn't reflect on my alignment if I didn't do it specifically because I was scum, it should be slightly scummy. (I'm sure you can follow my reasoning.)

If it wasn't the real rationale behind your actions, then doesn't it stand to reason that we as a town should be able to determine that it wasn't your real reason?

No, in fact I feel the direct opposite applies for some actions (not necessarily mine). I don't see why it stands to reason, though, towns very frequently get it wrong. In fact, given most scumtells are tendencies, you may be able to accurately say I'm scum 90% of the time when I ___, but even that level of correct analysis leads to the wrong conclusion 10% of the time.

You're speculating poorly on why you think others should find you scummy and then wondering why I don't believe said speculation?

I don't know why you say it's poor. I don't expect you to believe it (?), because you have a different set of views to me; I just think some things are mostly inaccurate. As to self-evaluation, other people's views have followed pretty much exactly what I thought they'd be. You would expect people to be biased towards the truth, so I kind of doubt thinking I'd be slightly scummy to my own eyes (as it were) implies bias. (shrug)

It'd be fine to postpone this until tomorrow, though. I'll convince my scumbuddies not to kill you.

[LlamaFluff]

A townie should be trying to convince people off their wagon

I'm sure you've played many many games. That sort of behaviour shuts me out. You actively repelling me is not conducive to scumhunting. Stop it.

What is the difference here. End of day 1 (quote 2) you tell Llama to stop trying to repel you off his wagon, and here you are calling him scummy for not trying to repel you off his wagon. Eh?

There

is

a difference between shutting me out, repelling me, and repelling me off his wagon. Repelling me is just ticking me off, shutting me out is preventing me from validating or changing my read. Trying to convince me off his wagon cannot be done while repelling me and shutting me out.

Seriously, what do you want here. You have brought stuff up, I responded to them and for whatever reason you are not convinced and dont really feel like responding to me further about things. If you want me to take what I said and reword it a dozen different ways, I will, but I dont think that it will accomplish anything except to distract people and create unneccissary noise. Its like people who continually turn on and off a burned out light, its not going to work and its kind of time consuming and annoying.

[SpyreX]

I'm seriously confused with the Goat / Elmo discussion because to my eyes it reads:

G: I think you're town.
E: There's no reason to think that!
G: Well, this is why I think that. I find this weird.
E: Presents case why I could be scum.

.....

Is that a fair summation?

[Lord Gurgi]

This

is

Elmo we're talking about. I do recall saying that he just says things because he believes they're correct, not because it's in his best interest.

[Goatrevolt]

I'm seriously confused with the Goat / Elmo discussion because to my eyes it reads:

G: I think you're town.
E: There's no reason to think that!
G: Well, this is why I think that. I find this weird.
E: Presents case why I could be scum.

.....

Is that a fair summation?

That is a fair summation, and it blows my mind as well. At some point, I anticipate him building a strong enough case on himself and me being forced to simply agree with it and wagon on it.

Actually, here is probably a more accurate summation:

Goat: I think when you did X it looked pro-town.
Elmo: Why would you think that? X was scummy. I did it specifically to look pro-town.
Goat: Uh, ok? I guess...um...I guess I'll take that assessment back? Still, I don't think you're that scummy.
Elmo: Well you should. Here is a list of reasons why. Oh, and my scum team isn't going to kill you tonight, because you're dumb enough to think I'm town.
Goat: Well...alright. I guess that's good. Thanks, I suppose.

[SpyreX]

At least I'm not the only one on drugs then.

Talk about flabbergasting.

[Goatrevolt]

At least I'm not the only one on drugs then.

I'm not on drugs. You must be the only one. Sorry, dude.

[Goatrevolt]

Actually, while we're on the topic, what do you think about Elmo, Spyre? Does flabbergasting mean townish or scumish?

[SpyreX]

Coming out Day 2 and arguing with someone without a vote with why they themselves are scum?

Just flabbergasting. I can't see a scum gain aside from the sheer madness factor. It, alone, is almost one of those "can't live till endgame" ticks which makes NO sense after a lurker lynch and on path to another.

If Nu is scum, no way, none, that Elmo is a partner.

[petroleumjelly]

Official Day Two Vote Count #6, End of Day Two

4 Nuwen (forbiddanlight, SpyreX, Goatrevolt, Battousai)
1 LlamaFluff (Lord Gurgi)
1 Lord Gurgi (Debonair Danny DiPietro)
1 TDC (LlamaFluff)

With

10

alive, it takes

6

to lynch and

4

to lynch at deadline. Deadline is September 22, 9:59 pm CDT.

Not Voting – 3 – Elmo, Nuwen, TDC

---

LOCK COUNT

8 – Green (forbiddanlight, SpyreX, Lord Gurgi, Battousai, Debonair Danny DiPietro, Nuwen, Goatrevolt, TDC)
0 – Blue
0 – Red
0 – Yellow

Not Locking – 2 – Elmo, LlamaFluff

At nightfall, the floor to be locked is: GREEN.

~

As a warning, this scene is particularly violent.

The man in tweed idly spins in his twisty-chair somewhere in the Hotel, watching the array of screens featurings multiple angles of the Lobby with fascination. There is just

something

about watching people being forced to kill each other that makes him giddy inside. One of these days he was going to have to be less restrictive with the locations of these events, but with all the wire-tapping and blabbermouths in the world, prudence dictated that he be completely in control.

“Hmmm, looks like Mrs. Buttersby might be in trouble,” he says to himself. He unwraps a giant multi-colored lollipop – the flat kind – and swirls it around in his hand. “Yes indeed.” He tosses the untouched confection into the proper receptacle and grabs a few more guns, distributing them in various pockets of his clothing. Just in case.

Mr. Wilson decides to take one of the scenic routes to the Lobby. He greets a few people in his employ behind the scenes as he does so.

“Good work.”
“There’s a lollipop in the trash if you’re hungry.”
“I wouldn’t trust Geraldo if I were you.”
“I thought I fired you…”

*GUNSHOT*

“Oh, you’re not Lisa. Sorry.”
“Hapmabbleblap!”
“Round up the cats.”
“Clean-up in Aisle Four. I swear she looked just like Lisa.”

By the time he gets to the Lobby the decision has been made. Everybody in the room looks to the man in tweed as he seemingly peels off from the West Wall, with words from the Wall somehow on his suit.

“So! I see you you have come to concensus. Or, at least, you’ve reached a majority. Or, four of you have. Still, that’s good enough for me.”

The guests all look him somewhat nonplussed. Mr. Wilson stands, motionless. For a good while, nothing is said.

“What, do you expect me to kill her myself? Please. You have five minutes to kill her dead, or I will gas the lot of you.”

Nuwen (

aka

Mrs. Buttersby) sits perfectly motionless. One of the guests hesitantly picks up a lamp from one of the inn tables, hefting the weight in his hand. “Go on,” says the man in tweed. “Somebody has to do it.”

There is a crash as the lamp is bashed into Nuwen’s cranium, and the lamp shatters onto the floor. Nuwen gives a reactionary scream of pain, and the man holding the remains of the lamp begins to cry. The guests seem slightly in shock, and do nothing.

“Four minutes. If you’re waiting around for sympathy, you’re not going to find it from me.”

Another guest suddenly forcefully punches Nuwen in the face, and she falls from the couch to the floor. Another half-heartedly kicks her in the side. Suddenly half the town is beating her with their fists and feet. Mr. Wilson points his gun at the non-participants, and they reluctantly join the process. It seems the more Nuwen is hit, the more force people start to put into their blows – as if it becomes more acceptable because others are doing it, too.

“Three minutes. I’m serious. If she is not certifiably dead in three minutes,

all

of you die.”

There is another crash from a second lamp, and then somebody starts using one of the shards as a stabbing device. A third tears off a part of their shirt, twists it, and begins choking her, which has the secondary effect of keeping Nuwen in place. A fourth takes a small hard-bound book and awkwardly begins bashing on the top of her skull.

“Two minutes… well, let me see. Back off. This won’t count against your time limit.” He bends down to check her pulse and her breath. “Well, I daresay you managed to kill her in less than three minutes! I’m so proud of you, words can hardly describe my elation. Some of you certainly got creative: for that, I applaud you. I'll have to remember to give you some more toys to work with tomorrow.”

Mr. Wilson begins to walk off towards the elevator. “Oh, by the way, she was completely innocent. I hope you’re all pleased with yourselves.

"Now: off to bed! Get! Shoo! We have a big day tomorrow!”

Nuwen, Townie, has been lynched!

She was currently residing on the

Blue

Floor.

Deadline for night is September 25, 9:59 pm CDT.

My apologies for declaring a No Lynch when I originally locked the thread; I unintentionally missed Battousai’s vote.

[petroleumjelly]

The man in tweed sits in a particularly comfy chair in the lobby, with a full grin across his face. At first, the grin might seem to be caused by innocent happiness: but a closer look reveals the deadness of his eyes and a definite feeling of sinisterness. It is four o’clock in the morning, and he has not been to bed. He has just finished cleaning up and disposing of the remains of Nuwen, and he is in fine form. The carpet is spotless, and everything is going according to plan.

~

Two and half hours later, after mulling how to give his speech for as long as he could stand, he picks up a large musical triangle, clears his throat, and gives a slight signal for a microphone to be turned on.

He clangs the triangle with all his might: “Come and geeeeeeet iiiiiiiiit! Rise and shine, my sweets! You have ten minutes to get dressed and get yourselves down here. If you try to hide in your room, I will have you locked in and I would deal with you personally at a later time.”

The group sullenly walks into the lobby, one by one, from the elevator. Everybody seems to be avoiding eye contact, and they silently wait in line for breakfast (which consists of an astounding array of quiches, assorted sliced fruit with yogurt, bacon, crepes, etc.). “Oh, let me see some smiles! Today is a big day! Even though everyday is my favorite day, I think the third day is always my

most

favorite day.”

As the guests seat themselves, it is clear that another guest seems to have gone missing. Mr. Wilson seems to take no notice, and he sips on a cold glass of strawberry guava juice. When everybody seems to be done eating, the man in tweed sets down his drink just loud enough so that everybody looks at him.

“Now, as I have just mentioned, the third day is almost always my most favorite day when I run these little games. This is because I always do the killing on the first day as a service, and on the second day I force the rest of you to do the killing. And here’s why that’s

so

special for me:

“You are all murderers. Every last one of you.

“Now, you might think that the circumstances here make it more…

morally

acceptable, if you will, for you to beat and strangle somebody until they are unable to live. Perhaps crushing somebody’s skull with a blunt object really isn’t

that

bad in the greater scheme of things. Perhaps they had terminal cancer, they were going to die anyways, and you were just helping move nature’s process along by slicing open their veins so that blood could not be pumped to their bodily organs. I frankly do not care how you might justify it to yourselves in your mind. Because under the law, you are all murderers.

“As some of you may or may not know, duress is not a defense to murder. The law does not care that some of you likely only killed Mrs. Buttersby (

aka

Nuwen) because I pointed a gun at you. Admittedly, you may have been legally off the hook had Nuwen fought back with deadly force, but as we all know, that was not the case, and hence you are far from making an argument of killing in self-defense. Hell, you might think that because you only kicked her in the ribs, you certainly could not be the cause of her death. But guess what? That is simply not true under the law.

“I have cameras planted all over my hotel, and you can rest assured that I will be saving certain tapes that most incriminate those of you who are fortunate enough to leave here alive. Put simply, that means: at all times, I have the power to tip off the government and have each of you arrested for murder. And trust me, if you manage to leave here, you will have had to have murdered more than one person. So if you think you might get off easy, you’re in for a surprise. And that means, when I send you a little letter asking you for a visit in the future, I highly suggest you comply.”

One of the guests makes a move as if to attack the man in tweed, but Mr. Wilson pulls out a gun and there are also several very audible gunclicks from the walls. “Now, now, sit down. Even if all you tried to rush me simultaneously, each of you would be shot down in turn. I have at least two marksmen assigned to cover

each

of you. The only reason I have not killed you on the spot is because you have made it so far in the game already, and I am intrigued as to what will happen. I do not want to ruin the dynamics here. But try that again, and I will have no qualms killing you. That’s right, just sit back down, and enjoy your eggs.

“Now, I have had past guests try to testify against me in trial. I have had them hire out investigators to find me. I have had several hire bounty hunters to kill me. As you can see, I am still alive and well, and they are not. Many of these people were astronomically smarter than most of you – one guest actually came fairly close to killing me about six years ago. But as I age, I learn. And I have learned from the best. And

you

are not the best. If any of you seriously have plans of trying to get back at me if you ever leave, by all means, give it the ol’ college try. Just know that nobody has been successful thus far.”

The man in tweed stands up and gives a big stretch. “I suppose most of you thought the empty seat today meant somebody died overnight. Ha! Goodness. I randomly locked somebody in their room to make it seem as though somebody had died.”

A guest is shoved from a wall, and after looking around in confusion, embarressedly sits down in the empty seat. “That’s right! You all lived through the night. What a blessing! Lunch will be served at one o’clock. If you manage to kill somebody before then, I shall make it a banquet you will never forget.”

Nobody has died.

Back-up Floor

: Blue.

It is now

Day Three

. With

9

alive, it takes

5

to lynch, and

3

to lynch at deadline. Deadline is October 10, 9:59 pm CDT.

[forbiddanlight]

I remain unmoved so it would seem.

Anyway, I was wrong on Nuwen...great. That also puts me back to square one since I really was hanging my hopes on that...I may have to reread soon.