Mini 848 - Second String Muppets Mafia - Game Over.

[Zorblag]

Vote Count 1.6

The numbers by the voters indicate the order in which the vote was cast. If two or more players are tied for the most votes to lynch at the deadline the tiebreaker will be the player who has the earliest active vote.

MonkeyMan576: 6: MacavityLock (7), ekiM (12), Kirbyoshi (14), Debonair Danny DiPietro (15), Eldritch Lord (19), ~Jordan` (20)
~Jordan`: 2: springlullaby (2), charter (6)
Debonair Danny DiPietro: 1: Snix (16)
Eldritch Lord: 1: MonkeyMan576 (18)

Not Voting: Ectomancer, elvis_knits

With 12 alive it takes 7 to lynch. Currently MonkeyMan576 would be lynched at deadline. Deadline is 1:00 PM EDT/10 AM PDT on Wednesday, October 7th 2009.

-Zorblag R`Lyeh

[charter]

Heyhey. Going to read up and post thoughts tonight since I won't have much access for a few days.

unvote

[Kirbyoshi]

Most vanilla claims are not believed, but a vanilla has better chance of surviving a day if he/she claims, as refusing to claim is MUCH more scummy than claiming vanilla. However, if he were to claim PR as a vanilla, he is only prolonging the inevitable, as he would be NK'ed the night after he van-claimed.

[~Jordan`]

Most vanilla claims are not believed, but a vanilla has better chance of surviving a day if he/she claims, as refusing to claim is MUCH more scummy than claiming vanilla. However, if he were to claim PR as a vanilla, he is only prolonging the inevitable, as he would be NK'ed the night after he van-claimed.

lolk.

[charter]

First things first. I am a

Paranoid Gun Owner

. This means it would be unwise to target me at night, you'll die. Any questions?

Now, catch up time.

26- What the... How can someone type that many words in their first post. I'll let you decide how to use your role.
42- Did Jordan just claim scum who can talk out of thread?
45- Possible Ectomancer/MacavityLock pairing.
48- Wow, "I did it for reactions" from Jordan which is pretty much the same as saying "Lynch me, I'm scum".
53- Good lord, more Ecto/ML pairing.
58- HA! Scumbag. Kirbyoshi. Totally calling this as Ecto/ML/Kirby.
62- Holy crap! Ecto is using "posting under an alt" as a scumtell? Reaching to the moon with that one. The rest of his post is scummy as well. He has done nothing but try and get Monkey lynched. I need to go back to see if there was any alignment discerning he did, but I don't recall any.
66- HOLY FREAKING CRAP!%$#$@%#$ Kirbyoshi votes EK because she voted Ecto. Obvbuddies.
70- Dang, ekiM could be scum too.
92- !@$#@ Another scum, I'm up to like five now. Now is Eldritch Lord. Please explain how posting on an alt is scummy.
99- Wow. I'm not sure if EL is scum anymore. This post is so ridiculously bad, I don't see how he could've possibly expected it to fly.
151- Let scum quickhammer and give themselves up. Claiming before a lynch is threatening is very anti-town.
154- Oh dear lord. Can it be any more obvious Kirbyoshi is scum?
162- DDD, very sad. I thought you were pretty obvtown up until this point. A shame you blew that apart.
163- Very scummy from Ecto.
166- Contradictory post by EL. Says he's not ready for L-1 but is voting MM and gave me the distinct impression he thought MM was scum. However, a vote on DDD not making sense if he is scum (since MM is obvtown and he could easily be lynched at this point) coupled with his earlier odd posts, and I will demote him from scumbag to neutral.
193- Completely shatters my town read of Elvis. She didn't mention a single thing I did in this, so we're clearly not thinking together, and then she starts to shift on to the MM wagon.
195- Elvis falls down a long set of stairs.
203- Gah, superscummy post by EL. I keep flip flopping on him. Appears to be voting MM to hear a roleclaim. Also because he only mentions looking at people for bussing if MM is scum.
214- ARE YOU FREAKING KIDDING ME????????????? Ectomancer UNVOTES MM????
224- Oh man, best post of the game.
Didn't read any of the pointless theory debate after MM already claimed vanilla.
252- Nothing in this post is right.

Alright, imma break it down. People are going to unvote MonkeyMan. He is very clearly not scum, I just read the game, and it's obvious. Ectomancer and Kirbyoshi very obviously are scum. I'll expound on this in my next post, give me a few. Also, I'll decide which is scummier and proceed in voting them.

Other things of note, springlulliby. She needs to step it up or replace.

[charter]

vote ectomancer

for not using his vote yet.

I find this scummy. You vote for ecto without building a case against him, then go on to talk about Jordan and SL, as if trying to misdirect.

Since I figure Jordan's "bad luck" post could just as possibly be talking about a vanilla role as a scum role, and because elvis tried to misdirect, I will...

Unvote ~Jordan`, Vote: elvis_knits

Votes EK because she voted Ecto. This is a really sloppy defending his buddy. Throws out a misdirecting accusation, when SL just dropped a bomb, which needs discussion. Voting without building a case is a poor excuse for a vote and not a scumtell. Also backpedals on his Jordan vote, for no reason. Overall, a post worthy of lynching him.

EL, I just iso'ed you, and found out your vote on "King" DDD didn't last long AT ALL. While I don't agree with the case on Danny, I think that if you think he's scummy, you should vote him, and stick with your vote. That is, if you want to play townily =/

FoS: Eldritch Lord

My vote stays.

Scummy post. First off, he is FOS'ing EL (I assume it is because he finds EL suspicious) but at the same time advising him how "to play townily". Contradictory. Second, he is telling EL what he should be doing, while at the same time, finding him suspicious. Third, that "if you want to play townily" bit REALLY seems like he knows EL isn't scum with him.

Also, and probably the most damning point against him, NO SCUMHUNTING! All he has done all game is try and lynch MM.

I know I said I was going to do Ecto too, but Kirbyoshi is scum. Slam dunk.

vote Kirbyoshi

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

First things first. I am a

Paranoid Gun Owner

. This means it would be unwise to target me at night, you'll die. Any questions?

If you're going to role claim is there any reason not to name claim?

[charter]

I don't think it matters one way or the other, really. I'm Crazy Harry, though.

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

Well if you're being honest about your role that's phenomenal for us. I've really disliked Jordan's attack on MM lately and MM has been calm and rational about the whole deal. I've got a lot of respect for you charter and you raise some really good points about Kirby so...

Unvote; Vote: Kirbyoshi

[MonkeyMan576]

Right now I'm a little hesitant to vote Kirby because Jordan fingered him early, and I'm more inclined to think Jordan is scum than Kirby, but charter's case is well reasoned, so for now...

FOS: Kirbyoshi

[charter]

The only thing I saw in terms of Jordan talking about Kirby was "Kirbyoshi seems strange to me" in post 48. Is that what's keeping you from voting Kirby, or am I missing something?

Why do you think Jordan is scum again? I'm pretty sure he isn't scum. Ecto and Kirby look pretty buddybuddy to me. Something I think I missed in my first go I just now noticed, Ecto only votes after EK calls him out for not voting. Could have done it much sooner but didn't. Doesn't seem very town to me.

[MonkeyMan576]

The only thing I saw in terms of Jordan talking about Kirby was "Kirbyoshi seems strange to me" in post 48. Is that what's keeping you from voting Kirby, or am I missing something?

Why do you think Jordan is scum again? I'm pretty sure he isn't scum. Ecto and Kirby look pretty buddybuddy to me. Something I think I missed in my first go I just now noticed, Ecto only votes after EK calls him out for not voting. Could have done it much sooner but didn't. Doesn't seem very town to me.

*Early roleclaiming
*Defending "spamming" behavior
*Early OMGUS
*Voting without reasoning("strange" statement)
*Buddying with Ecto
*Putting me at L-1(another OMGUS)
*Argument that claiming vanilla is scum
*Backtracking

[Kirbyoshi]

Wow, charter lol. Back off of the caffeine for awhile.

I think it's interesting how easily you condemn ML for what seems like simply guilt by association.

More on post 58 please.

66 was not an OMGUS. I didn't vote EK because she voted ecto; I voted EK because she voted ecto for no valid reason. Not voting yet tells caution, not scumminess.

154 needs an actual case against it as well, not just an "OMG ur scum".

252 - Name one thing in that post that's not right.

[~Jordan`]

The only thing I saw in terms of Jordan talking about Kirby was "Kirbyoshi seems strange to me" in post 48. Is that what's keeping you from voting Kirby, or am I missing something?

Why do you think Jordan is scum again? I'm pretty sure he isn't scum. Ecto and Kirby look pretty buddybuddy to me. Something I think I missed in my first go I just now noticed, Ecto only votes after EK calls him out for not voting. Could have done it much sooner but didn't. Doesn't seem very town to me.

*Early roleclaiming
*Defending "spamming" behavior
*Early OMGUS
*Voting without reasoning("strange" statement)
*Buddying with Ecto
*Putting me at L-1(another OMGUS)
*Argument that claiming vanilla is scum
*Backtracking

I never role claimed.

I never voted w/o reason.

I never buddied with Ecto.

I never claimed vanilla was scum.

Sigh. I dunno if ive said this before, but you need to get ur facts straight.

[~Jordan`]

also, I had no idea OMGUS was scumtell, since you

are

doing basically the same thing mainly b/c I argued that claiming vanilla wasn't good.

Hm...the argument about Kirbyoshi doesnt seem strong enough to me at this point.

[Ectomancer]

Answer me this; Who do you think are Monkey's scum buddies at this point? Do you think Jordan could be scum?

Of interest is Kirby. He also ignored ... ure games.

You are absolutely right. That is the clearest cut case of buddying that I've ever seen.

vote ecto

It is simply amazing how you built a case on Kirby all by yourself!

[elvis_knits]

I'm not sure lynching MM is a good idea at this point because I don't like the last two votes on him. EL basically votes MM because I criticisized his DDD vote, and to help the town get a claim... not because he thinks MM is scum.

I like some of what charter is saying, except the part that seems to say EL is too scummy to be scum.

99- Wow. I'm not sure if EL is scum anymore. This post is so ridiculously bad, I don't see how he could've possibly expected it to fly.

I like this kirby bandwagon on the one hand, but on the other, I think EL is much scummier, and he has mysteriously disappeared since I started calling him on his scummy moves.

vote Eldritch Lord

[charter]

I think it's interesting how easily you condemn ML for what seems like simply guilt by association.

Strengthens that ML is your buddy. What is interesting about it? Do you agree with my assessment or not? I don't like how you throw out your opinion on the subject of ML, but don't explain it at all, and ignore everything else I said in my post. Looks like you're just interested in what I have to say about ML.

Jordan, what exactly do you have against me?

When I saw this question, I saw a banner saying you were scum. You're way too worried about Jordan's vote on you.

Other than, of course, simple, maybe subliminal, OMGUS. If you actually stated your case against me, it would make it much easier for me to explain why you are wrong

Now you're trying to explain away his vote on you. Once again, you're very worried about a vote on you.

66 was not an OMGUS. I didn't vote EK because she voted ecto; I voted EK because she voted ecto for no valid reason. Not voting yet tells caution, not scumminess.

I didn't say 66 was OMGUS, it isn't. I listed why it was scummy. Not voting IS scummy.

As for 154, you hop on the largest wagon, having said nothing about MM up until then, and you don't really say anything about him in that post, though it's designed to look like you find him suspicious. You just say one of his posts is scummy, and then you sit on that vote the rest of the game. You don't actually try and determine his alignment or anything, you're just sitting pretty with your vote on MM.

252 - Name one thing in that post that's not right.

The breakdown.

Most vanilla claims are not believed

Let's see some numbers. I find a lot of vanilla claims ARE believed.

but a vanilla has better chance of surviving a day if he/she claims

No, if someone claims vanilla, they should be lynched. They're either scum or a vanilla, not much better deal than that. I really don't know why MM claimed in this game, I don't see who was going to hammer him. A shame he did.

as refusing to claim is MUCH more scummy than claiming vanilla

I think that not claiming is much, much, MUCH more protown than claiming vanilla. Claiming vanilla serves no point whatsoever. You could still argue your way out of a lynch if you don't claim, but scum wouldn't know not to waste a NK on you.

However, if he were to claim PR as a vanilla, he is only prolonging the inevitable, as he would be NK'ed the night after he van-claimed.

Not really. You don't lie about your role as town because there's a good chance the real powerrole will counter, and the town will proceed to chain lynch them.

I don't have any interest in arguing anything about 252 any more.

[Ectomancer]

Charter, whenever you are ready to defend your assessment on me, I'll be happy to destroy it.

3 of your *points* against me are scum pair speculation based upon the actions of another player, and that was all by page 3.
1 of your points is against the alt's issue, which has already been discussed ad infinitum and criticized by a number of other players already. I see of all the points that could possibly actually be made against me, you chose the easy strawman and

never

actually addressed the case on Monkey, did you?
Finally, your "Ecto is so scummy" post.

Let's play a game!

If I had a 2nd vote:

It would be on Kirby, regardless of MonkeyMan's alignment.

Your turns!

Let's see, MM is at L-2 and very little in other cases has been made aside from Jordan's (who I know is a big nub). L-1 follows

the very next post

.
I suppose you would like to argue that trying to establish where other players stand than on the main case is scummy?
Oh and hey! It's more buddying with Kirby! I'm sure he appreciates that special brand of loving.

What

really

cracks me up is your almost certain move had I agreed to lynch my second target is that you would have switched from an accusation of buddying to one of bussing. Neat trick. Take my 2nd suspect, accuse me of buddying with them, then vote them after I had removed my vote from Monkey and stated that I was awaiting other assessments before making a decision, when it is almost certainly obvious that Kirby is my man on deck.

Oh, by the way, the

only

time you can vote when someone calls you out on not voting is

after

they said it. So your argument is bunk trash. The only thing you could say there is that by that point in the game I should have placed a vote and not doing so is scummy.
Except I shouldn't and it isn't.

unvote[/i]

[charter]

*Early roleclaiming
*Defending "spamming" behavior
*Early OMGUS
*Voting without reasoning("strange" statement)
*Buddying with Ecto
*Putting me at L-1(another OMGUS)
*Argument that claiming vanilla is scum
*Backtracking

I agree that he's done a bit of these things, I just don't agree that it's scummy of him, it just looks like bad play to me.

You are absolutely right. That is the clearest cut case of buddying that I've ever seen.

vote ecto

It is simply amazing how you built a case on Kirby all by yourself!

WHY ARE YOU VOTING YOURSELF?

I'm not sure lynching MM is a good idea at this point because I don't like the last two votes on him. EL basically votes MM because I criticisized his DDD vote, and to help the town get a claim... not because he thinks MM is scum.

I like some of what charter is saying, except the part that seems to say EL is too scummy to be scum.

99- Wow. I'm not sure if EL is scum anymore. This post is so ridiculously bad, I don't see how he could've possibly expected it to fly.

I like this kirby bandwagon on the one hand, but on the other, I think EL is much scummier, and he has mysteriously disappeared since I started calling him on his scummy moves.

vote Eldritch Lord

Ummmm, why are you only now not liking the last two votes (Jordan and EL) on him? You've posted several times after they cast their votes. You even mentioned before that you thought their votes were fishy, and you want to have a longer day because of it, but you still wanted a MM lynch in that post.

You really haven't called EL out for being scum. Vote for Kirby.

[Ectomancer]

I think it's interesting how easily you condemn ML for what seems like simply guilt by association.

Strengthens that ML is your buddy. What is interesting about it? Do you agree with my assessment or not? I don't like how you throw out your opinion on the subject of ML, but don't explain it at all, and ignore everything else I said in my post. Looks like you're just interested in what I have to say about ML.

Caffeine, methamphetamines, whatever it is quit doing it. You don't even remember that you accused

me

of being ML's buddy, not Kirby.

You totally blew through the game, maybe reading, but not putting much real thought into it. Now you can't even keep your accusations you are throwing around straight.

Back up and try again and actually take the time to think about what you are writing about.

[Ectomancer]

whoops bad tag

unvote

[elvis_knits]

I'm not sure lynching MM is a good idea at this point because I don't like the last two votes on him. EL basically votes MM because I criticisized his DDD vote, and to help the town get a claim... not because he thinks MM is scum.

I like some of what charter is saying, except the part that seems to say EL is too scummy to be scum.

99- Wow. I'm not sure if EL is scum anymore. This post is so ridiculously bad, I don't see how he could've possibly expected it to fly.

I like this kirby bandwagon on the one hand, but on the other, I think EL is much scummier, and he has mysteriously disappeared since I started calling him on his scummy moves.

vote Eldritch Lord

Ummmm, why are you only now not liking the last two votes (Jordan and EL) on him? You've posted several times after they cast their votes. You even mentioned before that you thought their votes were fishy, and you want to have a longer day because of it, but you still wanted a MM lynch in that post.

You really haven't called EL out for being scum. Vote for Kirby.

You're not making much sense here. First I'm "only now not liking the last two votes," then you say how you do know that I "even mentioned before that I thought their votes were fishy." I mentioned it before, hence, it is not the first time I said I don't like the votes. And the continued absence of EL has made me feel he's a much better place to put my vote.

And I have called EL out for being scum. My catchup posts 193, 195 point out specific things I don't like about him. Also, 199, and 206. He hasn't posted since 206, hasn't responded.

As for kirby, I agree he's scummy and if you think he's the scummiest, go for it. However, I think EL is the scummiest.

[Kirbyoshi]

Caffeine, methamphetamines, whatever it is quit doing it. You don't even remember that you accused me of being ML's buddy, not Kirby.

Actually, he accused the three of us of being a scum trio.

[MonkeyMan576]

@charter: I'm not generally one to bite the hand that feeds me, but first you say I'm obvtown, and then you say all vanilla claims should be lynched. Which is it?