The Dark Goma Mafia: Massacre of the Cloth (Game Over)

[Kmd4390]

Vote Kise

. This is a good wagon. His avatar doesn't say Kmd anymore.

[Kmd4390]

Ben, it seemed fine to me.

Vaya, any reason for that vote?

[Kmd4390]

Ben, you being lynched in Yaw's game. I didn't have a problem with it.

Spy, you think the jester claim was serious?

Vaya, why Jordan and not Kise if you were just wagoning?

[Kmd4390]

If I were a vig, I'd shoot Vaya.

[Kmd4390]

BM, Vaya said he was just wagoning and Kise had more votes.

[Kmd4390]

True. But my issue is more with you attacking him beforehand. The whole thing seems a little contrived...

I was in class and had a vote with no reason sitting in front of me, so I asked about it.

[Kmd4390]

Unvote, Vote Vaya

[Kmd4390]

Bandwagoning for the sake of bandwagoning on the SECOND largest wagon, not the first.

(Or the fact that for once I can't find a better reason to vote anyone...)

[Kmd4390]

Are people

really

taking Kise seriously? Come on people.

Ben, you were obvtown and a pretty good player in Yaw's game. Please don't go back to your old ways here.

Vaya, even in the RVS, voting without other text is bad.

Socio, NEVER assume a double vote comes from one alignment over the other. It's a case-by-case thing.

Unvote

. I can follow Vaya's thought process from a town point of view.

Vote Benmage

. We just played a game where pointless spew and spam hurt the town VERY badly. I think he's trying to intentionally replicate this as scum.

[Kmd4390]

You aren't going to spam why? Cuz I called you out on it? You're obvscum and have to be lynched ASAP.

Better yet,

Kill Benmage

Porkens made an early kill in a game once and hit my scumbuddy. Let's see where this gets us.

[Kmd4390]

Why would I have to set up WIFOM when I just killed you?

Dramonic, Kise was obviously joking.

[Kmd4390]

I hope you were jokin, i'm town and wanted to atleast play with some of the people in this game...

Am I one to joke around? If you were really town, you shouldn't have done what literally JUST screwed an entire town in another game.

[Kmd4390]

A dayvig has to be outed eventually.

[Kmd4390]

You have just as much chance to be scum coming into a game as anyone else. And I'm pretty sure I just nailed you on a Page 6 kill. This game will give me the ego boost I've been looking for.

[Kmd4390]

Whatever. No point arguing with you. Let's wait for the Mod to post your flip. I'm gonna go home, so I'm offline for at least a half an hour. Maybe more.

[Kmd4390]

Wow, you guys post too much. Catching up now.

[Kmd4390]

The FDVB Gambit brought an interesting result. Benmage felt the need to enforce several times that he was town while trying to figure out if it was a real kill. I think he knew what I was doing and was trying as hard as possible to tell us that he is town. Because he was trying so hard, I think he's scum. Yes, dramonic, a scumclaim would have made things easier. Unfortunately, I didn't expect it to happen though.

Ignoring Snow's claim. Will read her the same as before.

Don't like Tubby's Snow vote. Tubby, what is your experience with millers?

Yeah, Kise, what Plum said. She's my jailbait scum lover, so back off. XD

What?!? DeathNote slip!

Unvote, Vote DeathNote

Plum, I've played 3 games with Benmage. He was town in all three. Borderline VI in the first two. Decent player in the third.

Anyone thinking that Kise got an investigation with no N0 needs to think a little bit. It makes no sense. He's obviously trying to pull a Mastin on us.

My Role PM is clearly an uninformed-

minority

OMG SCUM. (for the sense-of-humor-impaired, I'm joking).

Damn you Spy for beating me to that last joke.

DeathNote self-votes. Obvscum. (Not a joke)

Cass, where did Snow slip?

BM, why did you vote Plum?

So we have DeathNote, Benmage, Sajin, and Jordan as scum. Cool.

[Kmd4390]

All he does is wagon and try to stay under the radar.

[Kmd4390]

There are, but it's because they haven't showed up. Jordan has been here mindlessly wagoning.

[Kmd4390]

Why is Sajin scum again?

Not playing to his town meta.

Why do you think the DeathNote "slip" is more telling than what Stark said?

I don't think Stark meant that it directly said council is town, but implies it. DeathNote couldn't even see this much.

[Kmd4390]

Spy, why so sure you were wrong about DeathNote?

[Kmd4390]

Sajin, you are scum because of meta. Your buddies just happen to be the other scummy players.

Spy, didn't Yaw's game teach you anything about speed of wagons? I got run up pretty quickly as scum.

[Kmd4390]

Sajin is usually more balls to the wall protown questioning and stuff. Here, the best he's done is call slip on a reaction to a slip. I'm just not seeing the Sajin I'm used to. There are still better lynches than him today though, so I'm not going to push this too far right now.

[Kmd4390]

Volkan, I just don't understand why Spy backed off so quickly. You gave an excuse for DeathNote and Spy just bought it without seeming to really think about much aside from the speed of the wagon. Not all speedwagons are on town, which Spy just saw in a game where we were scumbuddies.

[Kmd4390]

What, specifically, about the "firmament" of the case, led you to change your mind?

[Kmd4390]

Instinct and Magic.

^Sounds like a good reason to me.

[Kmd4390]

You disagree?

[Kmd4390]

SB and I are from opposing factions, TYVM.

You wouldn't know this if you were town. Ohhh. Sliiiiiip.

DGB, Volkan isn't bussing me. I'm town.

Llama, I'd have waited for a Snow flip before revealing that meta info. It's hard to catch scum when you tell them how you are planning to catch them.

[Kmd4390]

Why are we even looking at the claim instead of just looking at Snow as a player in this game?

[Kmd4390]

So then if a claimed miller looks scummy you lynch them, if not you treat them as town... I believe some really wierd things in this game (for instance I know a few people have seen me pull wagons off people who claimed VT), but this is not that far out there.

^This. I tend to usually agree with Llama on theory, and this is one of those times. If Snow is scummy, we'll lynch her. If she's not, we won't. It's really that simple.

[Kmd4390]

Llama, what more do you need on Sajin meta? I already explained that.

Volkan, rather than tell me I'm wrong, tell me HOW I'm wrong.

I'd support Jordan using his ability today.

[Kmd4390]

I see no reason to wait.

[Kmd4390]

I wouldn't complain about any of:
Vaya
DeathNote
Cass
Snow_Bunny
Benmage
SocioPath
Sajin
alvins95
Kise
Rosso Carne
KaleiÐoscøpe

In no particular order. All are either
a)scummy
b)lurkers
c)claimed miller and everyone freaked out about "OMG DO WE POLICY LYNCH?!?"

[Kmd4390]

Sajin, I've seen you as town. You play differently than you are here.

[Kmd4390]

Sajin, you are usually

more

aggressive. Well, maybe aggressive is the wrong word. Inquisitive maybe.

Stark might be scum, but I'm not scum with him. I bus.

[Kmd4390]

Stop talking about jesters. If someone is scummy, lynch their ass.

[Kmd4390]

Ok, so two of my suspects died and flipped town.

Vote Benmage

. Guess we're back to this because Sajin looks like himself now. Maybe Spy and Llama are scum?

[Kmd4390]

Ben, your reaction to my fake kill still has me thinking you are scum. I only unvoted you because DeathNote's post looked like a slip.

Volkan, yeah, you guys were right I guess.

Ben, thoughts on Spy?

[Kmd4390]

Volkan, it didn't hurt anything that I was wrong. We didn't lynch him. I couldn't follow why you thought DeathNote was town, and TBH, still can't. It's not important anymore though.

[Kmd4390]

I'll get around to this tomorrow. Too tired to make myself read too much.

[Kmd4390]

KMD- What do you think of stark?

The arguments against him are crap. Now that doesn't make him auto-town, but I haven't seen a good argument against him yet.

This is pretty terrible though:

Stark- Why not address the concerns and explain your reasons as well as scum hunt?

No.

Unvote

Vote: Alvinz95

--------------------

Volkan, *shrug*, it looked like a slip.

-------------------

What is the case on Alvinz?

[Kmd4390]

Oh. Forget my question about Alvinz. I just looked at him in ISO. He's a better lynch than either Snow or Stark.

[Kmd4390]

Benmage's reaction to my fake kill was obvscum.

I very rarely believe in slips. They are rare, but they can happen.

[Kmd4390]

wtf? So you think a lurker lynch is a better case than someone who has acted outright scummy and refuses to do anything to the contrary? Why don't we just replace alvinz and lynch actual scum today?

I know Alvinz can do more than he has so far. Snow hasn't done anything scummy yet. There isn't a good argument against Stark yet. Alvinz is the best lynch of the three.

[Kmd4390]

Alvinz can be replaced if he needs to, but it won't make him any less scummy.

[Kmd4390]

VP, what about Benmage?

[Kmd4390]

Sajin, Benmage is a scum read. DeathNote looked like he slipped as scum. So DeathNote was more likely scum than Benmage.

[Kmd4390]

I didn't see a slip in what Stark said.

[Kmd4390]

Not really.

[Kmd4390]

It was very forced. You went on and on trying to figure out if it was for real or not and were sure to say that you were town.

[Kmd4390]

[quote="Benmage"]
Yeah well heres my argument: pffftpb[/quote]

Awesome. That makes me want to unvote.

[quote="dramonic"]
Kmd4390 : Fairly town, good contribution and decent scum-hunting.
Q1) You've pretty much called everyone scum at one point or another. What's your current opinion?
[/quote]

Scum:
Benmage

Maybe scum:
SpyreX
LlamaFluff
Vaya
Tubby
alvinz

Not sure:
Cass
SocioPath
DrippingGoofball
KaleiÐoscøpe
Rosso Carne

Maybe town:
Kublai Khan
Plum
Papa Zito
stark
populartajo
Kise
Battle Mage
Snow_Bunny
dramonic
vollkan

Town:
Sajin
VP Baltar
milkshake
Kmd4390

[quote="vollkan"]
Yes, if you were paying no attention initially, but then I proved that it wasn't.

So, either you ignored what I said, you disagreed (your lack of any rebuttal speaks volumes on this, however), or you didn't understand (in which case, it baffles me that you wouldn't have piped up at the time).
[/quote]

I "piped up" when Spy went with what you said. I didn't understand how you "proved" anything and still don't.

[quote="vollkan"]
[quote="Dramonic"]
Q1) You seem very wary of Kmd. Do you think he is scum, or just somewhat dellusional? [/quote]

So far, I think he is scummy (see above for the crux of my problem with his play regarding SB), but I am not settled so I am trying to question him.[/quote]

What is wrong with my play regarding Snow? She hasn't looked scummy so far.

[quote="Battle Mage"]
Currently, i'm happy to lynch Sajin, KMD, Plum or Dramonic today. Rather helpfully, none have any (serious) votes atm. So, any preferences?
[/quote]

I don't like any of those choices, but if I had to pick one, Plum.

[quote="Benmage"]
Absolutely. Town are almost always more active players than scum. [/quote]

Not true. At all.

[quote="SpyreX"]

Unvote, Vote: KMD

I'll parse this in more detail later but VigGate still gives me the itch. The defense of stark (while the arguments aren't the greatest) strikes me as confidence in his flip. But neither of those get me as much as pushing a power-lurker lynch based on 2 posts and saying that not only is that scummier than active players BUT a replacement would STILL BE SCUMMY based on the ohh... 10 words posted.

Not buying it.[/quote]

VidgeGate- I'm a Gambit player. You know this. Should know it from our first game together, even if that one was retarded, but hey, I was a newbie.

Defense of Stark- Show me a case against him and I may support it. So far, there isn't one. Oh, and I always look confident in flips. Well, usually. But yeah. I usually have 1-2 very strong town reads and 1-2 very strong scum reads. I wouldn't call Stark either of those, but yeah.

pushing power-lurker lynch- I'm voting alvinz because it's a better lynch than Stark or Snow. If there was a better wagon, or people would support the Ben lynch, I'd be all for that.

[Kmd4390]

Bolded for whaaaaa? I'm pretty sure you'd been on Sajin as scum due to META(TM PENDING).

Ok, so two of my suspects died and flipped town.

Vote Benmage

. Guess we're back to this because Sajin looks like himself now. Maybe Spy and Llama are scum?

-------------------

1) It looks like I let it go because DeathNote's "slip" came up, so I was more focused on that.

2) k.

3) You're right. A Ben wagon would be better than Alvinz. However, Alvinz IS posting elsewhere, and not here. That IS scummy. Yes, it's one minor tell, but it's more than what I've seen against Snow (OMG MILLER) and Stark ("slip").

[Kmd4390]

Llama had a valid point, Tubby.

BM, why?

[Kmd4390]

BM, why?

[Kmd4390]

BM, the question to Vaya was legit. Vaya said the Jordan vote was just for the sake of wagoning and it was on the second largest wagon. When Stark voted, I figured a second vote would be good to add some pressure. Vaya answered pretty well, but hasn't done much since.

No, Yaw's game was pretty bad as far as walls/spam/lurkers. Whether it's why we (the scum) won or not, it was a pretty hot topic in the postgame. Benmage saw that and I believe he tried to replicate it. Thanks for reminding me. I'd forgoten that point against Ben.

Of course I think Ben's reaction to my fakekill was scummy. Didn't I say that a few times?

Gonna make me open another window now so I can see what 321 was...

Spy, why so sure you were wrong about DeathNote?

How do you get me knowing DN to be town out of this? I was questioning Spy for turning around on his stance. I'm still going after DN at that point.

417 by KMD cleverly leaves the option of Vollkan being scum open.

DGB, Volkan isn't bussing me. I'm town.

What is clever about that? Of course it's possible for him to be scum. He happens to be one of my biggest town reads so far, but I could be wrong.

--------------------

Tubby, what is reaching about what Llama said? In that game, you hardly reacted to the miller claim. Here, you wanted a lynch immediately. Why such a difference?

[Kmd4390]

Ben, I don't mean the QT. I mean the game thread.

[Kmd4390]

Yep. Ironic that you have the most posts in the game too.

[Kmd4390]

Yeah, Kise, what Plum said. She's my jailbait

scum lover

, so back off. XD

Hmm.. Looks like another one of your endgame-breadcrumbs.

Yeah, I'd breadcrumb a scum role. I usually don't even crumb town roles.

How long do you have to keep that avatar?

I don't. This one isn't from a bet. Cobalt will be giving me one soon though. Well. Assuming the Blue Jays aren't too much for the red sox to handle. Which, lately, they are.

That's the meta on him? I always define Sajin [when town] as someone who doesn't jump to bold conclusions. He's proven himself to be a risk-taker, via our last game together, but making relentless convictions? Not in my eyes. Maybe he was being lazy cop last game..

Oh, you're right. He doesn't jump to conclusions. What I meant is that he continues pounding out questions until he's got enough to make a decision. At first, I wasn't seeing that from him. He has started since, but then again, it

was

AFTER I called him on it...

----------------

BM,

I don't see your issue with the whole Vaya thing.

No, I'm not saying Ben is lurking. In that game, Yaw made a big deal about the amount/length of posts being too much which was the entire reason, according to Yaw, that people lurked. So what could someone take from the Mod's thoughts at endgame there? That spamming helps scum. What might someone do as scum right after a game's Mod says that? Spam. What has Ben done, or at least did right in the beginning of the game? Spam.

No, I definitely saw Ben's reaction as scummy. Read my posts right after it.

I was trying to understand what Spy was seeing that made him change his mind. The complete turn around made no sense to me.

Volkan is town on gut.

On Sajin, he didn't seem to be questioning like normal at first. Now, he is. My reason for suspecting him is no longer accurate, so to push a case on that reason alone would make no sense. Either he's town or he's very good at seeing what he's called on and fixing it.

---------------

Volkan,

Ben is scum because of how he reacted to my fake kill and because he started this game by spamming (see above for why this matters) right after Yaw's game ended.

DN was scummy because I thought he slipped. I didn't see how he could have not known if he was town after the game had already started. He should have asked the Mod to clarify if he wasn't sure.

-------------

Tajo, just because slips are rare doesn't mean they NEVER happen. I thought I actually witnessed one. Guess not.

[Kmd4390]

I didn't lurk except when I was V/LA. Same with Spy. DDD active lurked. Still, it was spam and walls that Yaw talked about. The only way you could use that would be to do it yourself, even if it happened to come from town there.

[Kmd4390]

Volkan, the point comes from a game Ben and I were just in where spam and walls hurt the town pretty badly and the Mod made it clear in postgame.

I don't see Ben spam normally.

To answer your last question, I'd check with the Mod if I didn't know my role. The Mod would answer and THAT would be what would lead me to think I was town.

[Kmd4390]

Ben, you say you only spammed in the RVS. Can you show me where you slowed down?

I can be an active poster and you know it. The D1 spam was obviously done comically. You not seeing this is bad for you.

You weren't nearly this active in Mafia 91 or Death Note. You were pretty active in Yaw's game though, I'll admit.

Did Ben spam in that game?
Do you think it is meaningful that here he only spammed in the RVS?

He was pretty active, but provided content in most of his posts (there was SOME banter with BM).

What if you didn't check with the mod?

I sure as hell wouldn't come in making a post like "is council town?" when I know I'm council. Of course you are expected to know, so if I was unsure, I'd fear the possibility that I'm scum and wouldn't make that mistake.

------------------------

Plum, I called it how I saw it. When I read DeathNote's post, it looked like obvslip. I saw Volkan disagree, and figured someone would, so no big deal. Then Spy, who had voted DN, completely changed his stance. So I decided to look into that. Volkan has explained his position, and it doesn't make sense, but he was right, so yeah. Knowing now that DN was town, it's Spy's turnaround that bothers me.

My list wasn't in order. DN would have been at the top if it was. It was the order in which the players appeared on the Mod's playerlist.

About Snow, I completely agree with Llama's stance. She should be treated like she hasn't claimed. But the fact that she hasn't been means she would have been a decent target for Jordan just because it is becoming a huge distraction. Snow is one of our leading wagons for nothing more than claiming miller.

Also, I AM NOT AT ALL satisfied with a Snow lynch. Quote me saying that I am.

I know Volkan's points about DN were legitimate. How do I know? DN IS ALREADY DEAD.

[Kmd4390]

Oh, there's another page I missed.

------------------

Ok, VP's numbers make a clear point. Ben was far more active than I realized in Yaw's game.

[Kmd4390]

Ben, fair enough. Consider the point conceded.

[Kmd4390]

Sajin, when did I change a stance apart from the one on you?

[Kmd4390]

Volkan, I have played three games with Ben. I was town in two where he was town too and we had some annoying back and forths and I suspected him although he probably was more VI than scummy. The third game, his play was much better. I was scum, but couldn't even find a good reason to call him out. He was one of the most obvtown players in the game. He's definitely improved since the first two games though.

He only spammed in the RVS? News to me.

I can't think of ANY reason to ask if council is town. There's a difference between posts where you think "hmm, this is a good idea" and posts where you go "oh shit, did I just say that?". DN's looked like the second type of post.

No, I explained several times why it looked like a slip. As town, he should have known council was town.

No, I read what you said. I just didn't agree with it.

If all you are going to do about being right about DN is brag, just drop it.

-------------------

Ben, you're fine with my lynch but have FOUR other targets you'd prefer? Interesting..

Why, in your next post, are you distancing yourself from my wagon that way?

[Kmd4390]

Just woke up from sleeping after 40 hours straight awake. Reading now.

[Kmd4390]

BM, I voted Ben before and would be willing to lynch him.

Socio, you were one of my weaker scum reads and didn't seem very active, so you made the list.

Claim:
Musician. I can play music to someone at night. If they like the music, they reach a spiritual state which leaves them unable to do anything, but also protects them. If they don't like the music, they kill themselves over it. So I'm a JK/vig and don't know which when I target someone.

[Kmd4390]

VP, no one else had more than 4 votes (L-10). Either I was going to continue to get run up and claim anyway or we'd be stalled until something actually happens.

[Kmd4390]

Vaya, my entire childhood was all about music. I started playing at a young age and most people were impressed. All I want is to share my music. I've just recently realized how strong my music really is.

Zito, they obviously kill themselves to make it stop.

And I have no idea what determines whether or not they like it.

[Kmd4390]

Without a claim, no.

[Kmd4390]

VP, we should be looking for scum. If someone doesn't believe my claim, that's one thing. If they are voting just so no one else claims, it's not a very good idea.

Vaya, elaborate. Are you voting just because I claimed? If not, why weren't you voting me already?

[Kmd4390]

Where were you/what were you doing when the Giver was killed and why did you not mention it when Vaya asked you to claim your flavor?

My Role PM actually doesn't say.

Oh, and Zito? I don't get your pic..

[Kmd4390]

Plum, can you summarize the case on me please?

[Kmd4390]

Plum, nope.

[Kmd4390]

Vaya, please summarize the case on me.

Plum, same.

[Kmd4390]

I can't answer for the Mod about my role not having "er".

I can see that I'm today's lynch. Fine by me considering there are probably roles much more powerful than mine.

[Kmd4390]

Ben, active.

[Kmd4390]

You voted DN after Vollkan and SpyreX looked back and realized it was not a slip in context without commenting on that fact.

Yeah. Skimmed that part of the game. Noticed that Volkan was against it though. Noticed that Spy basically went from voting DN to agreeing with Volkan. Didn't see anything to convince me, so I was fine with voting DN.

I'm certain you know that they're both reasonably intelligent, so especially if they were the ones who felt the reason for the bandwagon was severely lacking it would have behooved you to at least take what they were saying seriously, take a second look yourself, and comment on their conclusion and why you did or did not end up agreeing with them. Instead you ignored it.

I've never played with Volkan. Spy is a pretty good player though. But yeah, I rarely take second looks at myself. I'm a stubborn player.

You accused Spy of buying Vollkan's reason for DN's slip not being a slip without thinking about it much aside from considering the speed of the wagon on DN after the perceived "slip", when it was clear that SpyreX had personally read back and thought a fair amount about it and

after

coming to the conclusion that the reason for the bandwagon itself was not actually legit started wondering whether the speed of such a bandwagon might be worrying.

I had just seen a quick bandwagon on scum, so the speed didn't worry me. *Shrug*. It looked like a slip to me.

Completely misrepping him and accusing him of not thinking much about the reasoning prompted by Vollkan when it was quite clear you were the shamelessly guilty party on that count.

I didn't misrep. I still think Spy is scum.

When he explains that you continue to ignore the Vollkan/Spy stance on the slip except for asking Vollkan to explain why you're wrong when SpyreX has effectively done so twice already (further proving that you had not been paying a smidgen of attention to the discussion on the slip which was the case you were voting DN on).

Call me dumb. I didn't get it. Still don't get it. Won't get it in postgame. Oh well.

You also try to blow off Vollkan's analysis of your bahavior on the DN wagon/about the DN slip as irrelevant also strikes me as scum trying to downplay a legitimate case against him.

Because I really didn't get what he saw.

You then posted a list of eleven players whose bombing you wouldn't complain about. Firstly if you truly believed DN had scumslipped you should certainly have complained at least a bit because in your mind he should have been obvscum. Even if you didn't have such strong convictions (which the tone of the post where you voted him strongly implied) the very fact that there were 11 you wouldn't have complained about is less than comfortimg scumhunting from you.

Vidging a lurker or something would have been fine. We still had a lynch to use if we needed it.

Vague insinuation that Llama and SpyreX are scummy despite not having noted any scumminess about them is icing ion the cake,

Spy, it's mostly the way he was so quick to buy Volkan's reasoning. Clearly, the wagon was going to be looked at after a DN townflip. Also clearly, DN was going to be lynched (before Jordan claimed, remember). By hopping off, Spy separates himself from the wagon and can also pitch in on taking a look at it.

On Llama, it's a gut thing. I'm pretty confident in it though. I know my say means nothing now, but look at it tomorrow.

First of all, if I know that Vollkan is a fairly intelligent player, you should too, which should definitely prompt you to look when he disagrees (and I find it scummy that you were willing to blow off the first dissenter without looking into the reason for dissent no matter the dissenter - the fact that it was Vollkan should have only strengthened that).

I have never played with Volkan.

Furthermore, Spy changed his stance

before

you voted DN at all, so had you actually cared you would have looked at his explanation, also posted by SpyreX before your DN vote, and possibly asked if you didn't understand where he was coming from (as I did).

I post as I read. So I've written up anything in my post above this. If there are any posts after yours, I haven't read them yet. When I read Spy's post, I had already written my DN vote. Also, I

did

ask. He and Volkan answered and I didn't follow their logic. Spy looks especially scummy after DN's flip. Volkan looks like he legitimately disagreed with the wagon.

Instead you ignored it, accused Spy of acting scummy on the wagon where his behavior was reasonable and generally shown yourself to have completely ignored important discussion on the DN slip which was your entire vote then. DN's points were legitimate whatever DN had flipped. It's the fact that you ignored those points, whatever DN ended up flipping, that I find scummy.

If it looks like I ignored anything, it's probably just because I missed it. *Shrug*

Very well, I misread and thought your "Jordan bomb" list was a "lynch list". I am still unimpressed by the wide range and by the placement of SB on the list, but in context it's less in-your-face scummy. The other points stand firm.

Placement? I didn't put it in any kind of order. Just put up the playerlist and decided one at a time when I got to each name whether they could be bombed or not.

Much more powerful than your JK/Vig combo? lolwut?

When I can't control which I do, yeah.

[Kmd4390]

Fine. I'm a NK-Immune Lyncher Survivor.

Good game.

[Kmd4390]

Wait, I wanna propose something. Don't waste the lynch.

[Kmd4390]

All of my scumhunting has been genuine and will continue to be if I'm still alive. I just need a certain lynch to happen and if it does, I'm gone without you guys having to use a lynch to kill me. I can almost guarantee that I can bag the SK too based on something in my Role PM.

[Kmd4390]

Oh, and yes, there IS an SK. I have some other useful info too.

Oh, and there really isn't an "er" in my Role name, so that was a bad argument.

[Kmd4390]

Plum, what's in it for me is winning the game. I don't need the town to lose in order to win, so I don't mind helping the town and finding the scum.

Ok, here's what I've got:
-I'm not actually NK-Immune. It just sounded cool.
-Scum don't have fakeclaims. I didn't have one, so I doubt they do. Useful because if a claim sounds bad, it's probably fake. If someone is dragging out trying to claim, they are trying to make one up. Making someone claim quickly is helpful.
-I know something about the SK. I'll catch them when I see it. If I say what it is now though, they'll be careful about it, so that's the only thing I won't tell you.

[Kmd4390]

Oh, and there really isn't an "er" in my Role name, so that was a bad argument.

...But you aren't town...

True.

By the way, you should unvote. I can be eliminated without being lynched.

[Kmd4390]

Stark, if I do that:
1) You don't need me and will probably lynch me, causing me to lose
2) We won't even catch them in the first place.

[Kmd4390]

All of my scumhunting has been genuine and will continue to be if I'm still alive. I just need a certain lynch to happen and if it does, I'm gone without you guys having to use a lynch to kill me. I can almost guarantee that I can bag the SK too based on something in my Role PM.

Lets here this SK tale tall...

ITP: Benmage is worried.

Maybe.

Ben, post when you are online and stay online. I have a question for you.

[Kmd4390]

I am The Rats. Special type. Self-aligned. My power is the thing that I'm not saying, but will catch the SK. Win condition is that I win when someone (I don't know their alignment) is lynched. If people want me to even say who that is in order to stay alive, I will. They could still be scum, so I don't mind saying who it is.

[Kmd4390]

The first was a fakeclaim I made up. The second was a "fuck this, I'm going down, let's do it with style". Now I'm just trying to stay alive, so I've put up my real claim and am willing to do what the town wants.

[Kmd4390]

Here's some suspects:
Vaya - Said there was no reason for the random vote on Jordan. Later said it was just to wagon (Kise had more votes). Votes Snow for nothing but the miller claim. Switches to Stark for the "slip". No elaboration on either being scummy.
Benmage - Didn't like his reaction to my fake kill. I've conceded the spam point though. Votes me after my claim and says he suspected me already, but hadn't mentioned me. I don't know many of Vaya's opinions and don't like that.
Spy- Turnaround on DN. I've gone into detail on why this is scummy.
LlamaFluff -Gut

[Kmd4390]

Unvote, Vote Vaya

[Kmd4390]

You are rats... That's a bit ridiculous.

Why?

Ben, what is your role name? Not a fullclaim. Just your rolename.

[Kmd4390]

Need time to make one up?

[Kmd4390]

Milk, the town doesn't have to lose for me to win.

[Kmd4390]

Scum could end in "er" too.

How's it help scum for you to answer? Our dead roles, sculptor and hugger, would have basically told scum nothing.

Milk, no, town wouldn't win less. Yes, it's in my interest to tell you. It verifies that my info is reliable and it gets rid of an SK that might shoot me one night.

[Kmd4390]

neither are you.

[Kmd4390]

Liar.

[Kmd4390]

I don't know who the SK is yet. I guarantee that I can later though.

[Kmd4390]

k, my target is Sajin.

I know the SK's rolename. I'm taking that to the grave though. At night, I can investigate and get a result of "<Insert Role Name Here>" or "Not <Insert Rolename here>". So I'd catch them on either an investigation or if they were to try claiming their real rolename. This was the bit I wouldn't reveal on the off chance they claim the real name. Looking at what the name is, they might.

Pretty sure Benmage is SK. Vaya, Llama, and Spy are my top suspects for mafia.

It was worth a try.

Oh and my win condition is just to get Sajin lynched and be on his wagon. If he's NK'd, or if he's lynched without me, I need the SK to die any way possible.

[Kmd4390]

Not exactly. Just a new target if Sajin is NK'd or lynched without me. Problem is, I have to work to find that target. And me finding them could benefit the town. Hell, if a known SK is in the game, scum may even shoot them. Scum hate SKs too.

[Kmd4390]

>.<

I went back to my Role PM to get the flavor and I'm actually confirmable. I screwed up on the results I get. I'm a namecop. So I can tell you guys someone's rolename tomorrow and confirm that I'm a namecop at least. Then when I have the SK bagged, I'll let you know.

Anyway, the flavor. I had a good life in the sewers and actually seem to be there completely by choice. Sajin has me as his slave though. I'm not told what, but he's made me do some pretty bad things. I go up from the sewers one night and see someone (the SK) kill someone else. No idea who. I run and hide. The next night, same thing happens. I go up during the day in a human suit to get revenge on Sajin, and if I have time, take out the SK.

And yes, I'd like to save myself. I'll give you the SK when I can.

But seriously.

Give me one night to confirm myself. I can give someone's rolename. I'll hit someone VERY unlikely to be killed by anyone. No one, except maybe the SK, will even want to go out of their way to get me lynched by using their kill that way. If I don't have a rolename tomorrow, I'll accept my lynch tomorrow.

[Kmd4390]

Oh, and if there's no "er", I might be able to get scum too.

[Kmd4390]

So I can seriously help the town and am confirmable. I have no motivation to lie about my results because I'm dead the minute I'm caught.

[Kmd4390]

Tajo, have you read my last few posts? I can act as a protown namecop and catch anyone fakeclaiming. While I'm alive, scum have to claim actual rolenames. No "er" is probably scum. If I get the SK, I know right away whether they claim or not.

[Kmd4390]

Wait. VP, you actually think I'm mafia claiming this? Heh, that would be a weird and risky Gambit.

[Kmd4390]

Also,

Kmd, if your power does something to catch an SK, why wouldn't you claim something of that accord in the first place? Why go to all of the trouble of making a claim that is so different from what you allegedly are?

Oh. Forgot to respond to this. I figured claiming protown would help me stay alive easier than "Hey guys, I'm not town, but here's the SK's rolename". I also thought of that fakeclaim fairly quickly and was proud of it, especially knowing DGB's stance on fakeclaims.

[Kmd4390]

That's true. I probably would have claimed musician even as scum. I wouldn't have been able to think of this role though.

[Kmd4390]

^That's at VP.

[Kmd4390]

Tajo, have you read my last few posts? I can act as a protown namecop and catch anyone fakeclaiming. While I'm alive, scum have to claim actual rolenames. No "er" is probably scum. If I get the SK, I know right away whether they claim or not.

Why should I believe you this time?

You'll believe me when I have a rolename for you tomorrow and that person:
A)Comes in and says "Yep, that's me"
B)Lies, gets lynched, and flips what I said they would.

[Kmd4390]

Heh, Tajo's points against me in the post VP points out all attack genuine scumhinting.

Tajo. I am the rats. Special power type thing (as in not active/passive). Self-aligned. Flavor is that I lived in the sewers, was Sajin's slave, came up and saw a couple of murders blahblah that stuff. Power is that I know the SK's rolename and can investiage a player at night to get a rolename result. Win condition is I win when Sajin is lynched and I am on the lynch OR Sajin dies and I'm not on the lynch or he's killed another way and the SK dies, regardless of how it happens. When I achieve my win condition, I am removed from the game.

[Kmd4390]

scumhunting*. Not "hinting". Heh.

[Kmd4390]

1. Sajin hasn't been here. Not sure how/why he'd confirm it though. I doubt he knows he's basically a lyncher's target.
2. Depends on the situation. On Day 1, I'd lynch a claimed SK or Jester or most any 3rd party. But a nonkilling role who has confirmable information that can help the town and won't make it to endgame anyway? Sure. I wouldn't have claimed if it was a role I'd lynch anyway.
3. If Sajin dies and I'm not on the lynch, I win when the SK is dead and I'm still alive.

[Kmd4390]

Milk,

I hadn't given my win condition when I said that.

I'm not going after you tonight. You might be a vig target. I don't think I want to say who I'm targeting.

I doubt Sajin can/will confirm anything. And I thought the same thing when I read the flavor. I'm not sure how meaningful it is though. I tend to not like flavor arguments.

And yeah, you have my win condition right. Except that I have to be on the lynch to win on a Sajin lynch.

[Kmd4390]

Kahn, I tried to go after Sajin earlier. But no one was buying the argument, so I figured I'd claim cop with a guilty on like Day 3 or something.

Plum, let me win how? And since I can namecop it anyway, and no one will fakenameclaim with me alive, fine. The Rodent Tamer is the SK.

[Kmd4390]

Dramonic, I didn't edit it. I summarized it. Because Tajo asked. Not sure why I saw two kills. It's all flavor anyway. And "or" in sculptor is the same concept as "er", so I consider it the same.

[Kmd4390]

Dramonic, I don't get your argument.

VP, if Sajin was the Rodent Tamer, I'd laugh my ass off.

Plum, the Rodent Tamer is the SK. My Role PM specifically says so.

[Kmd4390]

Plum, you don't care that I can help the town in ways that are actually confirmable?

Btw, Milk is obvtown. Scum are scared of investigative roles. The SK is especially scared.

[Kmd4390]

Well THIS thread got busy last night.

One thing, fo sho - don't put credence in the "er" theory: my role has no er on it. We've had a coincidence that better not turn into a lynch rationale.

That said: KMD is a scum rolecop. I mean seriously now.

Get er' done.

^Scum who doesn't want to fakenameclaim.

Unvote, Vote SpyreX

. Not expecting a lynch. Just making a statement more than anything.

[Kmd4390]

VP, I hope by scum you don't mean mafia.

Spy,

[Kmd4390]

Stark, not sure. All it says is that he enslaved me and made me do bad things. It doesn't even elaborate on what he made me do. I assume he's some kind of scientist or something and enslaving me is the way the rats see it.

Plum, no, I don't win with the town, BUT. The town winning IS in my best interest because it's what would be keeping me alive.

[Kmd4390]

I highly doubt Sajin is the Rodent Tamer. The PM talks specifically about both as if they are two different people. I wouldn't mind lynching Sajin to test it though.[/desperate plea]. It tells me specifically in my power that the SK's rolename is Rodent Tamer.

[Kmd4390]

VP, nuh-uh.

[Kmd4390]

I wish I was mafia. This would be a helluva Gambit.

[Kmd4390]

Plum, I have to be alive when I win. But as soon as I do, I leave the game and a lynch isn't wasted. I agree with you about SKs. I'm not a SK though. I don't kill. There is no harm in me being alive.

[Kmd4390]

Spy, you're scum so suck it. I don't need to convince anyone, but I'm right.

The daycop thing is too risky. Who would trust an investigation too early? And how would I justify looking at Sajin of all players? Hell, I usually take daycop claims as Gambits. Claiming a guilty Day 3 is much easier. Maybe even Day 2 in case I were to die.

[Kmd4390]

Ok, if I am mafia, what is the Rodent Tamer? And what about Sajin? How does any of it translate to my claim? I'd like VP or Spy to answer this because I'm not seeing it and they seem to see me as mafia.

Plum, can I see a scumlist? As in who you think is mafia.

[Kmd4390]

Ok, apparently Plum goes from calling me 3rd party who needs to be lynched to calling me mafia who needs to be lynched. Spy, Llama, and Plum on a scum team. Good luck town. This win isn't going to happen.

[Kmd4390]

I was gonna investigate Ben btw. I think he's the Rodent Tamer.

[Kmd4390]

VP, what happens when Sajin is lynched and I'm still alive? Why is it worth a 1 for 1?

Spy, staring at a lynch, why would I claim cop with no results? I get counterclaimed and lynched. I needed to fake the guilty on Sajin along with the claim. At the time of the musician claim, staying alive was all that mattered. I'd figure out Sajin later.

[Kmd4390]

Milk, I could investigate Sajin I guess if that was what everyone wanted. It would just suck for him to be obvtown from my results. Then again, the scum kill him and I'm completely focused on the SK which benefits both town AND scum.

If I investigate Ben, it confirms me because he either confirms my results or lies and gets caught in it. I think he's the best bet for SK because he's been scummy, I can't draw connections to anyone from his posts, and he wouldn't nameclaim when I asked.

Meh, maybe you aren't a vig target. I don't know. But yeah, I'm at the point where I'd target anyone who the town wants me to.

[Kmd4390]

Ben sounds like a scared SK. Ben, why'd you kill The Giver? Why?

VP, I'd have claimed when I did as town too. Wide spread between wagons. And the thing you quoted was in reference to me claiming Sajin as a lyncher target. There's no way he was gonna be lynched today. Why wouldn't I say Alvinz or Snow if that's what I was doing?

[Kmd4390]

You aren't town, why would i ever reveal town information to a none town player.

How much does your Role PM say about me? I'm curious.

[Kmd4390]

Ben, did you know who I was when the game started or did you figure it out later? Or did you not know until I claimed?

[Kmd4390]

Here's the entire setup:
1.) tubby216 -Town Runner.
2.) Vaya -Scum Spellcaster
3.) Battle Mage -Town reader
5.) Papa Zito- Town Typer
6.) VP Baltar - Town Hider
7.) SpyreX - Scum liar
8.) crywolf20084 -3rd party lurker
9.) milkshake -Town good guyer
10.) Snow_Bunny -Town miller. (Wait, what's your rolename anyway?)
11.) dramonic -Town flipflopper
12.) Benmage -DA ALMITEY RAT TAMER. GRRR.
13.) SocioPath -Scum Pyschoer.
15.) DrippingGoofball -Town pleaseplaymoregamesanddontretireagainer. aka, Brett Favre.
16.) Sajin - SKer.
17.) LlamaFluff Scum Scummymcscummer.
18.) alvins95 -3rd party lurker version 2er.
19.) Kmd4390 -The Rats.
20.) Plum -Scum stance changer.
21.) Kise -wherethehell'dyougoer
22.) vollkan -Town almightynotaslipdetector.
23.) Rosso Carne -HAMAHER
24.) stark -THE GIVER! OMG HE'S ALIVE! (Good luck bro)
25.) Kublai Khan -Teh real miller. It's all a Gambit and Snow's part of it! RAWR!
26.) populartajo - Baconeater. Aligned with the alpacas.
27.) KaleiÐoscøpe- Worst scumpartner ever. Self-hammers as last scum alive. Absolutely terrible. If he's scum, he should be bussed now. Hell, I'd even use the NK on him. Makes a nice vig claim.

[Kmd4390]

Tubby what was that?

I declare DGB the leader of this town. She knows what she's doing.

[Kmd4390]

FAIL.

I wasn't scum. And I was really gonna help too.

[Kmd4390]

The musician claim was real, but no one bought it. So I made up this cool fakeclaim. No more posts here. From now on, I'm not doing the fakeclaim-as-town Gambit. It doesn't work.