Mini 847 Murder in Zachtown (Game over!)

[Battle Mage]

Ugh, this game sucks. I hate lurkers! [/Lol]

Just read through. Page 1 made me smile.

Vote: Battle Mage

Don't think i've done this before.

BM

[Battle Mage]

We seem to be locked in a perpetual RVS. I'm going to

Unvote: Battle Mage

since he showed up.....Kind of at a loss of what to do from there, though.

Confirm Vote: Battle Mage

As soon as he flips scum, you're going down!

Yeh, i'm clueless too. lol

BM

[Battle Mage]

I'm not buying it. Vote staying. You should know by now, BM, that reverse psychology does not work on me

Be honest with me here. What do you think the odds are of me being Mafia at this point?

BM

[Battle Mage]

@DTM: Jesters and lynchers are typically only used in bastard mod / open setup games, because it's just too easy to win as one of the two in a closed game where people aren't expecting it.

I disagree with this. A Jester win isn't assured, although Lyncher is. In terms of game policy, i dont think putting a Jester in a closed setup is bastardly, or unbalancing. And it isn't a dead cert victory.

BM

[Battle Mage]

o-o. I smell jester play?

Nah. I'd have to be the stupidest Jester in the world to self-vote in the random stage. lol
Unless it's a WIFOM gambit, but if you assume that, there's still very little chance of me actually being a Jester.

Claim: MOCTOD

I'm just being a schizo jackass, dw.

Thought i'd try something a bit different. Although, if everyone said that, i guess we'd end up with a game where everyone self-votes, and nobody gets anywhere haha.

Was just thinking how funny it would be if i claimed Scum, but then you'd kinda have to lynch me, or risk going down in history as the worst town ever.

BM

[Battle Mage]

@Haylen
How about reverse-reverse psychology? AKA REGULAR PSYCHOLOGY.

@BM
:S. Your confirm vote makes me confused. I smell jester play or sarcasm. What's your case on BM?

Well, there isn't a case really, but i've seen his role pm.

British Mafia Goon

. I'll check with the Mod if i can paraphrase

my

his flavour.

BM

[Battle Mage]

@Sotty7

I don't see anything scummy other then a WIFOM/AtE reasoning trap if you try and consider: "Oh scum wouldn't possibly vote himself during the RVS". It's just a WTF-tell at the moment since I can't come to a solid conclusion here.

What about you, do you see anything scummy?

Voting for yourself is a null tell really. Scum or town could do it this early in the game, doesn't mean anything apart from you being an attention whore (;))

Lmao.

Guilty as charged.

Also this has been bugging me for ages, what does AtE stand for?

Appeal to E

ggnog

motion. It's not a universal tell-it varies with the player. For me, it's a towntell, but for others, it can be scummy.

Battle Mage is a bit trickier....Yes, Self-voting is usually seen as scummy, but his posts seem more like jokes than anything, and I know many people who would do that quite often and find it to be hilarious - even more hilarious if they were lynched.

Why do you think self voting is scummy?

Now now, he didn't say that, did he?

Where do i know you from? You seem familiar, but i cant remember a game we shared.

BM

[Battle Mage]

Also this has been bugging me for ages, what does AtE stand for?

Appeal to E

ggnog

motion. It's not a universal tell-it varies with the player. For me, it's a towntell, but for others, it can be scummy.

Thank you. I figured it was this, but it was bugging me after reading various games with it in.

Now now, he didn't say that, did he?

Well he said that it is usually seen as scummy, in the context he said it I thought he agreed with that statement. If I'm wrong about that, I'm sure he'll correct me.

No, i think he was saying that because it's normally seen as scummy, me doing it is slightly protown, or at worst, null.

Where do i know you from? You seem familiar, but i cant remember a game we shared.

We were both in Election mafia but I was pretty much a non factor there. I'm also pretty sure we played together ages ago when you first came to the site, I don't remember the game myself, it was a couple of years ago.

Ah kk. Well, pleased to meet you again.

Proxy Vote to Sotty for next 48 hours

. Do with it as you please.

BM

[Battle Mage]

yup!

Use it well!

BM

[Battle Mage]

Like voting for Neto, who is lurking, for some reason...

BM

[Battle Mage]

BM, can i have your proxy vote? I've known you longer than he has... hehehehehe

answer my question on the previous page!

BM

[Battle Mage]

This....

At this early stage of the game, I find neither BM's self-vote or CSL's vote-hopping to be scummy. Let me explain.....

With CSL, the relevant portion to examine is the folllowing:

Well, is the RVS over?

@CSL
RVS ends when someone has a legit reason to start discussion, at least for me. The meaning varies from person to person. What made you think the RVS was over?

I dunno.

Vote: KittyMo because her name sounds cool.

Not knowing much about CSL, I can't say for certain that this was an honest mistake. However, based on the fact that his Wiki only shows a few games (mostly newbie), I'd say it's just a bit of confusion over whether we're still randomly voting and, if so, another random vote because he felt that was the appropriate and customary thing to do.

Battle Mage is a bit trickier....Yes, Self-voting is usually seen as scummy, but his posts seem more like jokes than anything, and I know many people who would do that quite often and find it to be hilarious - even more hilarious if they were lynched.

This is not to say that CSL or BM are wholly innocent - just that I believe these particular actions to not be indicative of scum play.

does not equal lurking.

You were viewing the thread earlier, and did not post. That is lurking.

BM

[Battle Mage]

Well I think by BM's standard of posting everyone else is lurking.

ironic, given i was last to confirm.

Proxy your vote to someone! It's fun!

BM

[Battle Mage]

(EBWOP: I know that one post does not equal not lurking either, but nobody seems to have commented on my post, so I was waiting to see something else to post about.....)

Actually, the man with the double vote has commented on it. I, for my part, agree with it. Nothing more to be said there lol.

@ Haylen - Ok, so do you have anything on me? I'm just curious.

BM

[Battle Mage]

BM - I didn't have anything to say. Better to keep quiet if I have nothing to add than to fill the thread with mindless ramblings.

Lol, i dont think i need to say that my policy differs from yours then.

I wanna see someone else proxy their vote to someone. Just for the lols.

As an added incentive, anyone who proxies their vote, gets to join my

clique

of voteless townies. I will not vote for anyone in the clique at any point during the game.

BM

[Battle Mage]

the Clique is taking signups now. Sidenote: if nobody joins, i will spend the entire rest of the day lurking.

BM

[Battle Mage]

....Can I join? CanIcanIcanIcanI? Is it like a secret society? Isitisitisit?

[/overexicted]

And we better not get lurkers here. Or I'll be sad.

Proxy your vote to someone. Then you are family to me.

BM

[Battle Mage]

Pfft

proxy vote to hito

I wasnt family?

erm, you do know you're meant to specify a time limit? haha

@Maemuki - Because you're paranoid? How is this going to get quicklynches?

Haylen is in the Clique. Although for future reference, nobody has to give up their vote for longer than a few rl days.

@Ckool- why dont you wannna be my friend?

BM

[Battle Mage]

@BM, I'm always paranoid. Live with it. Also, how long do we need to proxy the votes to be considered family? :3

lets say, 49 hours or more. Tbh, its more about the gesture, than the actual proxying duration itself. How committed are you, to family values?

BM

[Battle Mage]

Oh wow, I'm a triple-voter now. Are proxies retroactive? (That is, is a proxy vote a separate vote I must explicitly use, or is it a +1 that applies to whoever I voted for?) Because if so, Haylen, you just voted for yourself :p.

Just to be safe,

unvote: Haylen.

Lol, thats upto Zach i guess.

Mod

- What is your policy regarding Proxy votes? Do you count them together, or can they be used separately?

By my count, Hito has 3 votes for the rest of the game. Sotty has 2 votes for another 42 hours or so?

BM

[Battle Mage]

Does that mean hito has gotten triple-vote for the rest of the game? Wow. Powerful.

Proxy vote to Haylen for 48 hours

, because I'm feeling generous.

why not 49 hours or more, like i requested?

BM

[Battle Mage]

....Okay what the hell? Why vote for yourself?

did you do that when i self-voted?

BM

[Battle Mage]

Unvote. Vote: Battle Mage.

Why are you extending the RVS with this proxy vote stuff? I was starting to see some actual discussion, then you come in with your proxy votes and ruin it all.

Give me some quotes that consistute actual discussion.

In fairness, if there had been any valuable discussion up till now, you'd have a serious vote out, based on that discussion. Instead, you've just proved that we were still in the random stage, until i introduced the proxy suggestion. Now we have some serious information to look at.

Also, you have no idea how much i hate people that whinge about a long RVS.... 0.o

BM

[Battle Mage]

Mod

- What is your policy regarding Proxy votes? Do you count them together, or can they be used separately?

Proxy votes do not count unless you actually vote by the stated rules.

Please explain. By PM if you like.

BM

[Battle Mage]

Wow. I step away for a few hours and when I come back, everybody's went bloody insane.

Vote: Battle Mage

for stalling, obstructing and generally confusing and derailing the discussion.

I'll repeat shall i? There WAS no serious discussion.

Please explain to me why you are so panicky atm.

And then explain what you think i am stalling/obstructing.

BM

[Battle Mage]

Whatever. It's been my experience that the game will begin when it begins

That is an anti-town stance. I've seen a game where the RVS flowed over into day three, simply because a majority of the players shared your opinion on the RVS.
If nobody tries to start discussion, discussion won't start.

random voting is a way of producing discussion. So is my proxy gambit. It's not the first time i've done something like that, and when i did it before, we nailed a scumbag almost immediately. I dont think it's been a complete flop here either.

For those who don't know, trying to end the "RVS" is a scumtell.

BM

[Battle Mage]

Does that mean hito has gotten triple-vote for the rest of the game? Wow. Powerful.

Proxy vote to Haylen for 48 hours

, because I'm feeling generous.

why not 49 hours or more, like i requested?

BM

I CONSIDER THIS TO BE ACTIVE LURKING. WHY ARE WE DISCUSSING THIS?

Explain.

Unvote, Vote: KittyMo

BM

[Battle Mage]

....Okay what the hell? Why vote for yourself?

did you do that when i self-voted?

BM

Nope. I forgot about that. And answer the question while you're at it, it would be very helpful.

You have another question from me to answer. Hop to it!

And let me unproxy my vote.

Unproxy vote

Screw secret societies.

Lol, you realise it was never proxied, right? haha

BM

[Battle Mage]

@BM: Was there at least any purpose to asking people to join your proxy vote clique? I was thinking people who proxied out their vote seemed a little eager to 'fit in.'

Exactly. That's one dimension of it anyway. On the one hand, newb-scum might try and join a voting organisation in order to get some extra clout, and maybe fit in, as you said.
On the other hand, more experienced scumbags, are more likely to attack the concept, and use that to get me lynched, and subsequently, lynch those who joined, on the grounds that they were "eager to fit in".

The tells depend on the players ofc, which we can now discuss.

Do you still feel the concept was a waste of time?

BM

[Battle Mage]

Lol, you realise it was never proxied, right? haha

BM

Yup. It was for dramatic effect.

And answer the question please, kthx.

Unvote, Vote: Maemuki

I'm content.

@Haylen - I've concluded there's only one way to read you, and that is, see how willing you are to bandwagon me. My questions to you earlier were trying to assess whether you were actually tunneling me, which would be your scum meta, or whether you were just messing around.

There's no point looking at the proxy stuff until we've dealt with Maemuki-scum anyway.

BM

[Battle Mage]

OMGUS, Battle Mage....

Vote: Battle Mage

INDIRECT, that is.

If this wasnt a mini normal, i'd suspect you had a PR. As it goes, i dont know what you're trying to pull. Although, if i had to take a guess, it'd be Maemuki.

If you wanna link me to a previous game of yours, that'd be fab.

BM

[Battle Mage]

Unvote, Vote: Maemuki

There's no point looking at the proxy stuff until we've dealt with Maemuki-scum anyway.

BM

The problem here being: I'm not scum. :3
Reasons, please?

And stop chainsaw defending me CSL, I can take care of myself.

Lol, that's not a problem. If you're not scum, we'll run you up, you'll claim, and we'll believe you.

What do you think of CSL buddying you so conspicuously?

I'm voting you, because you have successively failed to answer the question i posed to you, which was:

Why did you proxy your vote for 48 hours, when i asked you to proxy it for 49 hours or more?

I dont understand why you would be so evasive as town. And btw, i'm not answering a question from you, until you answer mine.

Your attack on Haylen for self-voting is also very wierd, when such a big fuss was made over me doing the same.

Plus, you were keen to jump on the proxy bandwagon, until you realised i wasnt going to uphold my end of the bargain, at which point you bailed angrilly.

BM

[Battle Mage]

What.the.crap. Why the heck are you voting for Maemuki? Give us some reasons! You seem to think she's confirmed scum...why?

Lol, damn you guys are crazy. xD

I love it!

I never said, or indicated that i felt Maemuki was confirmed scum. But if you want to interrogate someone, you cant pussyfoot around! lol

Whats with the "us" stuff? And why so panicky (yep, that word again) about me voting Maemuki?

BM

[Battle Mage]

If this wasnt a mini normal, i'd suspect you had a PR. As it goes, i dont know what you're trying to pull. Although, if i had to take a guess, it'd be Maemuki.

I'm seriously thinking that you are ignoring me.
And, explain the last part?

Lol, i'm seriously thinking you forgot i'm human.

The last part implied that CSL is flirting with you.

BM

[Battle Mage]

I think that was a "say no more say no more know what I mean nudge nudge" kind of crack on BM's part. Hence the winky face.

Mod, can we get a

vote count

? People are flinging their votes around left and right.

Also I think BM might be avoiding the question because the answer is kind of obvious - that is, that BM is crazy as all hell and will do any weird thing he likes during the RVS. While it's not the most helpful thing in the world for town it's good for BM himself, since with that philosophy he'd act the same in the RVS regardless of role - like a poker player who's always smiling.

Lol, you're my new favourite player here. Congrats.

And yep, i love poker, and winking. haha

The answer to Maemuki's question is, i was just having a laugh. It's not something i've ever done before, so i figured i'd give it a try. Plus, inviting suspicion on yourself is a towntell.

BM

6th vote count of day 1:

CSL - 2 (DTMaster, Sotty7)
Battle Mage - 2 (Nikanor, CSL)
Kittymo - 1 (Haylen)
Hitogoroshi - 1 (Maemuki)
Nikanor - 1 (ckool5000)
Haylen - 1 (Kittymo)
Maemuki - 1 (Battle Mage)

Not voting (jasonT1981, Netopalis, hitogoroshi)

With 12 alive it's 7 to lynch.

If I made any mistakes, let me know asap.

Deadline will also fall on Wednesday September 23rd at 9pm central.

[Battle Mage]

Battle Mage, calm down please. I'm not buddying her. I just don't see why you think she's scum.

And no, that does not convince me.

Earlier on the (now previous) page, you mimicked her, and i believe you followed her with the proxy thing. Now you're defending her with such fervour. I really dont get it.

Unvote, Vote: CSL

The whole thing is too wierd for me to even get my head around, but it makes sense to attack the playing who is buddying, before the player who is being buddied.

BM

[Battle Mage]

....Okay what the hell? Why vote for yourself?

did you do that when i self-voted?

BM

Nope. I forgot about that. And answer the question while you're at it, it would be very helpful.

How would it be helpful?

BM

[Battle Mage]

Battle Mage, when did you get the suspicion on Mae just like that? And answer Mae's question.

what are you-her husband? lmao

This reminds me of an exert from a comedy show.

BM

[Battle Mage]

....Okay what the hell? Why vote for yourself?

did you do that when i self-voted?

BM

Nope. I forgot about that. And answer the question while you're at it, it would be very helpful.

How would it be helpful?

BM

Getting to know the answer to the question?

What's your favourite type of cheese?

Much as id love to know the answer to the question, i dont think knowing that answer would be helpful.

Try again, and also respond to everything on the previous page.

BM

[Battle Mage]

Battle Mage, where do you get off doing that? I'm now inclined to lead a wagon on your scumminess. What comedy show?

Eh? I thought you were already voting for me?

*shrug* I doubt you'd have heard of the show, being foreign and all.

BM

[Battle Mage]

Lol, that's not a problem. If you're not scum, we'll run you up, you'll claim, and we'll believe you.

What do you think of CSL buddying you so conspicuously?

I'm voting you, because you have successively failed to answer the question i posed to you, which was:

Why did you proxy your vote for 48 hours, when i asked you to proxy it for 49 hours or more?

I dont understand why you would be so evasive as town. And btw, i'm not answering a question from you, until you answer mine.

Your attack on Haylen for self-voting is also very wierd, when such a big fuss was made over me doing the same.

Plus, you were keen to jump on the proxy bandwagon, until you realised i wasnt going to uphold my end of the bargain, at which point you bailed angrilly.

BM

Why did you want me to claim?

That's how games generally progress. lol

You self-voted? Must have

missed that

. And what big fuss?

Lie. Earlier on, you said you

forgot

.

If you didnt realise till now, why did you ask me why i self-voted?

Oh. You could have said that earlier. I just like societies, why? And the fact for not proxing my vote for 49 hours was my way to say that I'm really not a big fan of proxying. Or for being on that bandwagon for that matter. If you didn't get it, not my fault.

Are you a hydra? Or just not reading?

Lol, if you werent a big fan of proxying, why do it atall? Why would the hour make a difference?

I think you just didnt want to be seen as doing what i told you.

Unvote, Vote: Maemuki

I changed my mind again. I like a Maemuki lynch first.

Battle Mage, when did you get the suspicion on Mae just like that? And answer Mae's question.

what are you-her husband? lmao

This reminds me of an exert from a comedy show.

BM

...Please, stop that. I had my wife-jokes share already. Thanks.

So you 2 are married? Coz if so, that would explain alot.

BM

[Battle Mage]

I am. I'm just about ready to have about 4 others bandwagon your ass.

Still, Post. It. Now.

eh?

what on earth makes you think that's gonna happen? lol

BM

[Battle Mage]

VOTE-HOPPER. That's a scumtell. BIG scumtell. I was about to unvote you, but look at that.

lol, vote hopping is actually a towntell. But, that doesnt matter. Because you and Maemuki are very hard to differentiate when you keep buddying her.

About to unvote me? Bs. Anyone reading the game can see that is an outright lie.

BM

[Battle Mage]

Then go take a look at my other games in the Newb section. Everyone there says it's a SCUMtell, but whatever. These jokes must stop.

is this directed at me?

If so, link?

BM

[Battle Mage]

VOTE-HOPPER. That's a scumtell. BIG scumtell. I was about to unvote you, but look at that.

Ah, so to clarify, when you said you'd bandwagon him in 184, that was for no other reason than he offended you and Maemuki, and you were about to unvote, but NOW you have a case totally separate from this offense, that being that he 'vote-hopped' over some critical threshold and has now committed a big scumtell?

Sheesh, whether town or scum, you're just so easily rattled that it's kind of humorous. You need to chill out a bit, man.

I'm supposed to be humorous. I love being humorous.

are you in a relationship with Maemuki?

BM

[Battle Mage]

That's how games generally progress. lol

Sure, but it just seemed curious on that context. It just seemed that you wanted me to claim ahead of time.

I actually dont mind. If you wanna claim now, go for it. It saves us some time.

If you didnt realise till now, why did you ask me why i self-voted?

Damn my memory. So you're voting for me just because I switched words. Yay. Best voting reason ever. Seriously, I just sub-consiously switched the words, and it came out that way.

So which is it?

Are you a hydra? Or just not reading?

Lol, if you werent a big fan of proxying, why do it atall? Why would the hour make a difference?

Meh, don't ask me. Do I look like a hydra to you?

Yes, and i already did.

I think you just didnt want to be seen as doing what i told you.

Believe what you like.

lol

Unvote, Vote: Maemuki

I changed my mind again. I like a Maemuki lynch first.

God make up your mind.

I'm not God. And, i know, this game is just too fast-paced.
I'm having a great time though. It's been ages since i've seen so much scummy behaviour so early on.

So you 2 are married? Coz if so, that would explain alot.

BM

*facepalm.*
No, you would only understand if you played on a certain game....nevermind.

Ok, explain then. Because it makes a big difference between whether we lynch CSL or not.

BM

[Battle Mage]

That's how games generally progress. lol

Sure, but it just seemed curious on that context. It just seemed that you wanted me to claim ahead of time.

I actually dont mind. If you wanna claim now, go for it. It saves us some time.

If you didnt realise till now, why did you ask me why i self-voted?

Damn my memory. So you're voting for me just because I switched words. Yay. Best voting reason ever. Seriously, I just sub-consiously switched the words, and it came out that way.

So which is it?

Are you a hydra? Or just not reading?

Lol, if you werent a big fan of proxying, why do it atall? Why would the hour make a difference?

Meh, don't ask me. Do I look like a hydra to you?

Yes, and i already did.

I think you just didnt want to be seen as doing what i told you.

Believe what you like.

lol

Unvote, Vote: Maemuki

I changed my mind again. I like a Maemuki lynch first.

God make up your mind.

I'm not God. And, i know, this game is just too fast-paced.
I'm having a great time though. It's been ages since i've seen so much scummy behaviour so early on.

So you 2 are married? Coz if so, that would explain alot.

BM

*facepalm.*
No, you would only understand if you played on a certain game....nevermind.

Ok, explain then. Because it makes a big difference between whether we lynch CSL or not.

BM

[Battle Mage]

are you in a relationship with Maemuki?

BM

BM. Seriously. Stop it. We

are not

on a relationship. Get it or do I need to spell it out?

Ok, explain then. CSL, i'd still like a link to a past game of yours.

I'm still happy to wagon Maemuki, if anyone's following.

BM

7th vote count of day 1:

Battle Mage - 3 (Nikanor, CSL, Netopolis)
CSL - 2 (DTMaster, Sotty7)
Kittymo - 1 (Haylen)
Hitogoroshi - 1 (Maemuki)
Nikanor - 1 (ckool5000)
Haylen - 1 (Kittymo)
Maemuki - 1 (Battle Mage)

Not voting (jasonT1981, hitogoroshi)

With 12 alive it's 7 to lynch.

If I made any mistakes, let me know asap.

Deadline will also fall on Wednesday September 23rd at 9pm central.

[Battle Mage]

Look, we're not going to get anywhere with BM around. His posts are absolutely ridiculous - the lunatic scryings of a madman. We've been through 8 pages of discussion and what have we learned? Zilch. Some newbie games went to completion - and won - in that amount of posting. Therefore, both because I think he's scum and I think it's a good policy, I have to

Vote: Battle Mage

Lol, ok ok, i give.

But you'd better lynch Maemuki tomorrow!

BM

[Battle Mage]

Really? Zilch? I've learned a lot about CSL and Maemuki, here. It's not my favorite style of play by any means - I'm much more stoic than BM - and personally I find it to be a bit in poor taste to use personal jabs to get rises out of people, but it's giving us a lot more than zilch.

Don't worry bro, i appreciate the support, but you're best off hammering me. Then tomorrow, hopefully you can take out Maemuki. I'm no longer sold on CSL, it could just be his playstyle. But Maemuki does need to hang.

Was nice to meet you - I'll hit you up sometime.

BM

[Battle Mage]

Excuse me, but you need to stop being a player hater. We are not learning enough from you at all. So get serious, and stop your joking around, or I'm going to scream.

player hateD more like. xD

I kinda lose the will to live when i get wagonned for stupid reasons tbh.

This is not a newbie game, and strictly speaking, im not here to teach. But i'm trying my best to actually get something rolling here, and getting cut off at the knees every time.

So, no, i'm not joking, i'm just coming to terms with the fact that Maemuki wont be lynched until im dead.

BM

[Battle Mage]

Actually, if you Unvote me, i might lurk for a bit. How does that sound?

BM

[Battle Mage]

Oh come on, BM, don't pull that fatalistic crap. The 'case' against you basicially amounts to "BM offended me/someone else, and that is a scumtell" and you can't put up a fight?

The worst townies are the ones who give up too early.

You're exactly right. How do you expect me to put up a fight, against a fairly significant wagon, which is founded on complete bs?

The majority of the players who are participating actively, are voting for me.

My vote is on Maemuki, and the information is out there. What more can i do, hombre?

BM

[Battle Mage]

For the record, BM, the only reason that my vote is on you is because I think that your continued presence will be a hindrance to the game. That and the fact that I could see this being a mafia play - something along the lines of "They'd never expect mafia to be this loud in the thread..."

And I suppose we have learned a few things...But I agree that it's not the way I'd like to play this game.

Lol, you should meta me. Mafia 75 - Return of the Mafia, in New York, is a prime example of a game in which i was very loud. Or even better Mafia 82 - International Mafia, in which i used the voting coalition gambit to start the game off.

You might not like me, but i think deeming me a hindrance before you've given me a chance is harsh. How about you give me the benefit of the doubt and help run up Maemuki?

BM

[Battle Mage]

Unvote my Evil Twin, and we have a deal.

lol,

Unvote

*shrug*

BM

[Battle Mage]

Is it pro-town, or is it pro-deadline without any freaking idea of who to lynch?

pro-deadline?

BM

[Battle Mage]

Hmm, seeing as i might not die just yet, i'll get some proper analysis down in the next day or 2.

Bet Haylen will kick herself for missing the chance to lynch me in the first 10 pages. Lmao

BM

[Battle Mage]

@Haylen - I've concluded there's only one way to read you, and that is, see how willing you are to bandwagon me. My questions to you earlier were trying to assess whether you were actually tunneling me, which would be your scum meta, or whether you were just messing around.

Lol, you're scum meta on me is now void. I tunneled Kmd all through the lovers game I was in as town and got myself lynched Day One. Just saying But I was just having fun there and not taking things seriously, like I did for the first 8 pages of Mean Mod. It's a new habit I have obtained, that I manage to restrain from in newbie games.

Lol, kk.

Battle Mage, calm down please.

hahahaha You haven't seen anything yet.

Now I do have a good reason to vote you, liar.

Nice misrep, he was joking, you should have realised by now that's he jokes a lot just look at the previous few pages.

Although, it concerns me how he was trying to lead the town with the proxy votes. He led me in cr3t1n's (SCARRED FOR LIFE) which made me do something people thought was scummy and chased me for 30 pages about. He might be trying to do the same here.

I was scum in that right?

Lol, you're my new favourite player here. Congrats. Very Happy

Dw, you're MORE than a player to me. You're a friend! Haha, *buddies*

The whole thing is too wierd for me to even get my head around, but it makes sense to attack the playing who is buddying, before the player who is being buddied.

coughcr3t1nscough

eh?

Why did you want me to claim?

*sigh* Rule number 5 - If BM votes for you, you must claim straight away. Personally, i think that's a load of rubbish...

Lol, rubbish or not, you can at least confirm that it's how i always play, as town at least.

BM, stop the jokes, mate, I make at least 3 towards them both a day. It's my job Also, it is impossible to get a read on you here. I havent experienced you playing like this as town or scum. Jester does spring to mind, but that's your title, isnt it.

I was mucking around before, but im deadly serious atm. Maemuki is very scummy, and needs to be run up.

BM

[Battle Mage]

Bet Haylen will kick herself for missing the chance to lynch me in the first 10 pages. Lmao

Pfft, I'm here to lynch scum, not lynch for fun. It would be quite...arousing...to lynch BM though.

lol

you're giving me townvibes, and that unnerves me.

BM

[Battle Mage]

Maemuki is very scummy, and needs to be run up.

I thought you said you wanted to kill the buddier before the buddiee? What changed your mind, specifically?
I agree that they both need to die, because they're both scum, but why Maemuki over CSL now?

Apparently the CSL buddying thing is just a joke based on a previous game they shared. I suspect CSL is just messing around in the same manner i was, and is just inadvertantly distracting us from Maemuki.

@DTmaster - i WISH being British was all tea and biscuits! *Sips tea* lmao

Trying to end the RVS is scummy, because the RVS is decidedly protown. People have to move their vote around, but there is no prospect of a mislynch. Scum hate long RVS's, because while nobody is being serious, they arent making any progress. A completely separate point, is that the majority of people on site dont realise the above, and consider the RVS to be bad. Therefore, saying "im going to END THE RVS" is an attempt to look more town, and rubs off as scummy.

You make a good point about the proxy thing. But, you really think, as scum, id draw myself out into the open like that? I'm far less controversial as scum

More responses later.

BM

[Battle Mage]

Hito, in re: #3, it's actually BM's response to the proxy votes do nothing. Here's his entire post:

Mod

- What is your policy regarding Proxy votes? Do you count them together, or can they be used separately?

Proxy votes do not count unless you actually vote by the stated rules.

Please explain. By PM if you like.

BM

Seems like he's a bit unnerved that proxies aren't allowed.

Not unnerved. I just didnt understand whether he meant proxies werent allowed, or there was a specific way they had to be made.

BM

[Battle Mage]

Dw, you're MORE than a player to me. You're a friend!

Awwww! *hugs*, *buddies back* :p

The coughcr3t1nscough comment was about camn buddying me, and you not recognising that. Even as scum, you would have been worried bout another scum faction. It's just interesting that you would attack me there (the buddy) and not the possible other scum faction (the buddier). lol. Hypocrisy.

I can confirm that he asks for claims when as soon as he votes you when he's town.

Ok, keep being serious!

Hmm, well we screwed up in Cretin's.
I dont think we were even looking for another scum faction, although an SK was probable.

HAHAHAHA! You crack me up...

HAHAHAHA! CRACK!

2) There were several players who seemed willing to proxy their votes based on a joke. This seems rather reckless to me, but what are your takes on that?

As one of those players, I can say that I did it because I thought it would be fun. And I wanted to see other peoples reactions to it, where Hito placed my vote for a start - see where he stands.

3) Does the note from the mod and BM's response imply anything about his role? It seemed odd when I first read it.

I don;t think anything of it, I ask mods questions too. If he really wanted to keep it a secret, he would've PM'd the mod rather than post the question in thread.

correct.

Haylen and KittyMo both feel town atm.

BM

[Battle Mage]

BM 188: I have meta evidence where vote hopping can be considered scummy. The game is ongoing though but it's in my wiki. I'll give you a hint, the flavor text is quite self inflicting. (Mod if that's too much then delete this line)

Well, my personal meta disagrees. I think townies are far more likely to votehop than scum, given that scum on MS tend to go for consistency points, and just tunnel 1 guy until he's lynched, so they arent expected to look at anyone else. But there are always exceptions to every rule, so there may be merit in your stance too.

Neto 227:
1. His style screams his normal meta. I seen it before (game ongoing though so can't link). The best thing is to do two things: be critical of his posts and be critical of the people's reactions. BM earned his signature that scum is afraid of him for a reason since his analysis and scum hunting nose is usually correct.

Aww, shucks .

You're my new favourite player here! Haha

Haylen 231: Real DK? Did everyone just ignore that? I assume it's fake considering Zach updated the votes and no kill yet.

Lol, it's Haylen. What do you expect? haha

BM

[Battle Mage]

But you didn't think I was obvscum in our game together. Are you insulting yourself?

Actually, I was intending to insult myself. I still feel like an idiot from that. Lol. Also, thank you for replacing me.

Well, my personal meta disagrees. I think townies are far more likely to votehop than scum, given that scum on MS tend to go for consistency points, and just tunnel 1 guy until he's lynched, so they arent expected to look at anyone else. But there are always exceptions to every rule, so there may be merit in your stance too.

I agree with you for once in my life. All the people that votehop constantly, while they may seem really scummy and often get lynched, come up town. Zachrulez has helped teach me this.

Oh, and

unvote: Haylen

because I've made my point.

for once in your life? lol How long have you known me exactly??

BM

[Battle Mage]

BM isn't voting her any more. I would like him to explain why.

I'm happy with my vote on CSL at this point

CSL was being dumb, and nobody else was biting. As far as you need to be concerned, i'm still voting Maemuki.

I think CSL-scum is a pipe-dream, nothing more.

BM

[Battle Mage]

Ftr, i'm not responding to Justin's post. If you wanna post something when you're SOBER, i'll give you a fair shout.
Conversely, if your next post is as offensive, i'll take my qualm to Zach.

BM

[Battle Mage]

right now I see BM as someone who is not wanting to play properly and is just a clueless idiot intent on rambling and CSL is someone who just wants to join in and not add anything to the game himself.

Out of those two actions, which do you think is scummier? Starting the rambling nonsense, or joining in on the rambling nonsense?

lol, Nikanor, dont even bother.

Also, apparently i meant "Jason" and not "Justin" in my last post. *facepalm*

BM

[Battle Mage]

Making a quick post at Half time, I apologize for my comments, I was getting very frustrated reading completely random posts for 9 pages while trying to catch up, It really was putting a dampener on the game for me and was making me feel like I wanted to replace out.

Erm, the game has only just begun, and i havent seen much of a contribution from you beforehand. You have made absolutely no investment in the game up till now, and you had no obligation to make a personal rant at anyone who you took a dislike to. If anyone has put a dampener on the game, it is you, because now we're worried that by trying to talk to you, we'll end up getting modkilled. So, thanks for that.

You should also be aware of how this affects you- you havent really made any discernible assertions towards my affiliation, but you have insulted me, and i'm the kind of guy that gets put on the bounce pretty easily.
Now, if i'm town, it's very hard for me not to want you dead. And if you're town, that's bad for both of us.

As far as replacing out goes, if your recent posts are anything to go by, that's probably for the best. Your attitude is not conducive to a fun game, and threatening the Mod is incredibly poor form.

IF you do decide to stick around, i'd like you to post some coherent comments on me. Because i'm not going to read any of your previous posts, as they will only make me angry, and that doesn't benefit anyone. And nobody is likely to get a good grasp on your alignment, if you are intoxicated when you post.

(Aside) Haylen - does this guy's style of speech remind you of anyone? xD lmao

BM

[Battle Mage]

Dear Players,

Ok, that's it, I am not going to tolerate players insulting other players. Jason, you are not a newbie, there are newbies in this game, insulting them and everyone else with not set a good example and may even make them leave the site. Sure attack another players playstyle, but NEVER make it personal it could totally destroy their confidence. Now, if this does happen again, I am going to personally PM the mod asking for the appropriate action to be taken and I urge the player being insulted to do the same.

Jason - Stop calling people stupid and retarded, it is offensive and I believe against the mods rules.

Thankye

BM - Stop with the marriage jokes ect about CSL and Mae. It is obvious it really annoys them.

Lol, they werent jokes! Ive seen couples on MS before, and i didnt understand what was obviously a joke pertaining to a previous game.

Also, Jason, I believe I was the first one in the game to self-vote...why are you so intent on making BM appear scum that you would disregard my original vote like that in favor of saying BM's caused havoc? He was not the first one to do it in the game?

Trying too hard?

BM

[Battle Mage]

BM 248: I hadn't thought of that. Multipressing and scumhunting from that angle of the RVS is very effective and would make scum frustrated. "takes notes"

Your question is very WIFOMic in nature and I dislike it. There is nothing to suggest that scum-BM would have controversial play or conventional play. As far as I know you could do both in both town-play as well. Suggesting that we consider if you would play this way as scum is a circular trap that gets us nowhere.

Lol, WIFOM isnt something that should be disregarded off-hand. Of course, you cant trust me, or my meta completely on this, but you CAN play the odds. Odds are, if my meta is how i say it is, for the past 115 games on MS, it's very likely that i wont have changed it completely for this game. I'm a fairly readable player. As town, i tend to be louder and bolder. As scum, i'm usually quieter, and sometimes lurk. These aren't ALWAYS the case, but generally that gives you a good indication of my alignment. Meta me.

BM

[Battle Mage]

(Aside) Haylen - does this guy's style of speech remind you of anyone? xD lmao

Yep. Worked it out ages ago, you fool.

wait, is it him??

BM

[Battle Mage]

Erm, the game has only just begun, and i havent seen much of a contribution from you beforehand. You have made absolutely no investment in the game up till now, and you had no obligation to make a personal rant at anyone who you took a dislike to. If anyone has put a dampener on the game, it is you, because now we're worried that by trying to talk to you, we'll end up getting modkilled. So, thanks for that.

Yes, that is true... I was actually unaware the game had begun for up to a day after until Zach made mention of it to me telling me it had started, It was then my birthday weekend and I was out celebrating in style today was the first day I had where I was able to make any contribution. If you feel I have put a dampner on the game I sincerly appoligize.. but I have to respectfully disagree about the game only beginning.. it started 5 days ago and we are on page 5.

Page 5 is nothing. This game has short deadlines, i'll give you that. But, we still have plenty of talkin time.

Why do you feel the need to be worried about getting modkilled by talking to me? I simply stated I felt there was alot of un-necessary things that lacked discussion and where pointless. You have no need to feel that way, If I have made you feel like that I am sorry.

It happened to a friend of mine in a game recently. And sometimes i go a little far in the ad hom department.
Making the game personal is a bad idea. I accept your apology-let's move on with the game.

You should also be aware of how this affects you- you havent really made any discernible assertions towards my affiliation, but you have insulted me, and i'm the kind of guy that gets put on the bounce pretty easily.

Now, if i'm town, it's very hard for me not to want you dead. And if you're town, that's bad for both of us.

I respectfully disagree, I have said I feel you are scum. I felt alot of your posts where attempts to hinder the town and stop scum hunting and actual discussion beginning.

Ok, but be that as it may, hindering the town from scumhunting, as you put it, is not likely to feature in a scumbags play. Why would BM-scum draw himself into the open, doing something that was expressly anti-town, with the only goal being to "stop actual discussion beginning"? I've only been in the game a couple of days, and i hope you dont genuinely believe that, if i was scum, i'd be so terrified of the town that i'd have to make a concious attempt to derail discussion, on

DAY 1

.

Not a towntell, but not a scumtell either.

how only if you are town though is it hard for you to not want me dead? if you are scum you could also capitalize on what I have said and use it against me to secure my lynch...Do you feel I am scum?

If i'm scum, i'm not genuinely scumhunting anyway. So the issue is inconsequential. If i was scum, i could push you regardless of what you said to me! lol
And, worst comes to the worst, if you annoyed me, i could just NK you. So i wouldnt get as steamed up over it.

I dont have much to go on with you atm. But you are defending my top suspect, which instantly puts you into the spotlight.

As far as replacing out goes, if your recent posts are anything to go by, that's probably for the best. Your attitude is not conducive to a fun game, and threatening the Mod is incredibly poor form

I am sorry, but please show me where I have threatened the mod... I felt your early behaviour was also not conductive for a fun game. As i said I feel there was alot of useless rambling from you and CSL

You dont need to keep apologising bro.

If you threaten to replace out, you are threatening the Mod. Now, dont forget that, what YOU deem useless, might not be useless for ME. Assume that i'm town, and give me the benefit of the doubt-coz i'm here to scumhunt.

IF you do decide to stick around, i'd like you to post some coherent comments on me. Because i'm not going to read any of your previous posts, as they will only make me angry, and that doesn't benefit anyone. And nobody is likely to get a good grasp on your alignment, if you are intoxicated when you post.

Well, you see now this is where we are going to have a problem.. if you are not going to read anything I say then I will have to accuse you of selective reading. And please, this is now the second time you have made reference to me being drunk when posting I would actually like to know how you came to this conclusion? I really ask for an answer on this please.

Hahaha! Don't accuse me of "selective reading". Go the whole hog, and accuse me of "NOT READING". Because that's what i'm doing. You've apologised for your comments, i'm happy, and we're cool. I'm not gonna rake over old ground- if there are genuine points you want to bring to my attention, copy and paste them.

Selective reading? That's weak...

You said you were drunk. Or at least implied it. I'll hook it out in a sec.

BM 248: I hadn't thought of that. Multipressing and scumhunting from that angle of the RVS is very effective and would make scum frustrated. "takes notes"

Your question is very WIFOMic in nature and I dislike it. There is nothing to suggest that scum-BM would have controversial play or conventional play. As far as I know you could do both in both town-play as well. Suggesting that we consider if you would play this way as scum is a circular trap that gets us nowhere.

Lol, WIFOM isnt something that should be disregarded off-hand. Of course, you cant trust me, or my meta completely on this, but you CAN play the odds. Odds are, if my meta is how i say it is, for the past 115 games on MS, it's very likely that i wont have changed it completely for this game. I'm a fairly readable player. As town, i tend to be louder and bolder. As scum, i'm usually quieter, and sometimes lurk. These aren't ALWAYS the case, but generally that gives you a good indication of my alignment. Meta me.

BM

WIFOM can be very dangerous at times but I agree it is not something that should be disregarded.. I actually don't buy into your Meta or whatever as a player can change play styles and say oh look this is my town meta I cant be scum..ala you saying as town you are louder and as scum you are quieter? Meta can be something that scum can use to make themselves look more town if they adjust their style to their town styled play. I have been caught on many times on the old this is my town meta arguement.

I refuted your point, in the post you quoted. But whatever. It's not airtight, but i've played in lots of games here- the meta potential is immense. You'd be well-advised to ask more experienced players about my play. I'm not a fantastic player, and i dont really change my playstyle from game to game. This could be a gambit, but why should this game be the one where i abuse my meta?

BM

[Battle Mage]

Also, please be aware that I was not insulting BM in my post above, it is a standard reply that I have made to him for years.

i dont get it. :S

BM

[Battle Mage]

Also, please be aware that I was not insulting BM in my post above, it is a standard reply that I have made to him for years.

i dont get it. :S

BM

i've been calling you and everyone else a fool, in a loving way, for a few yrs now. That doesnt make it an insult. But it could be taken as such from people who don't understand that. And posting a huge post above it asking everybody to quit the insults would be pretty hypocritical.

i didnt understand the insult.

BM

[Battle Mage]

OK reading BM in iso on those posts Sotty pointed out.

post 31

Why did you proxy your vote for 48 hours, when i asked you to proxy it for 49 hours or more?

I don't agree with this as something for his case against her at all, it is a pointless questioning bickering about a proxy vote that is not even allowed.

Happy 3 month anniversary at MS.

Plus, you were keen to jump on the proxy bandwagon, until you realised i wasnt going to uphold my end of the bargain, at which point you bailed angrilly.

This is an interesting point towards the reaction of Mae but in regards to his vote on her, it seems based on the point she didn't proxy

She did proxy. But she proxied, and then subsequently claimed she didnt like the whole thing. And she proxied in such a way that wasn't expressly as i asked- in other words, she deliberately went out of her way to not do what i requested. Seems like an attempt to look protown.

Lol, you realise it was never proxied, right? haha

BM

Yup. It was for dramatic effect.

And answer the question please, kthx.

Unvote, Vote: Maemuki

I'm content.

There's no point looking at the proxy stuff until we've dealt with Maemuki-scum anyway.

BM

But where you not voting her based on your reaction to the proxy stuff? correct me if I am wrong.

*corrects you*

....Okay what the hell? Why vote for yourself?

did you do that when i self-voted?

BM

Nope. I forgot about that. And answer the question while you're at it, it would be very helpful.

How would it be helpful?

BM

Getting to know the answer to the question?

What's your favourite type of cheese?

Much as id love to know the answer to the question, i dont think knowing that answer would be helpful.

Try again, and also respond to everything on the previous page.

BM

I fail to see any reasons here for his case against Mae...

She's lying. What more do you want?

ok this I dont get

And we better not get lurkers here. Or I'll be sad.

But but I like to lurk! It's my trademark!

And since when we are Evil Twins?

seems quite weird to say about lurkers make her sadi then lurking is her trademark... maybe I am missing something here..

good spot. We'll add that to the arsenal.

.

Proxy vote to Haylen for 48 hours

, because I'm feeling generous.

And let me unproxy my vote.

Unproxy vote

Screw secret societies.

if so it is a redicilious case.....

*sigh*

Let me reiterate:

I asked Maemuki to proxy her vote.
She asked, "how long for?"
I said, "49 hours or more"
She proxies her vote for

48 hours

.

BM

[Battle Mage]

for once in your life? lol How long have you known me exactly??

BM

If I said "For once in my life, I agree with George Bush" would you ask me how long I'd known George Bush?

That is quite possibly the most idiotic retort i've EVER heard. 0.o

You said "for once in your life" you agreed with me, which implies u have a history of disagreeing with me, but you've only known me 2 or 3 days.

Likewise, if you had never expressed any previous judgement on George Bush, and suddenly made that comment, everyone within earshot would think it was very odd.

You have 1 post to redeem yourself.

@ Mastin-posters:

There's these things called links. They work just as good as quoting except they aren't as insanely hard to read. It would be appreciated if you people used those. See my pretty link thing up above. That just made my post about half as small. Oh, and there's also these fun @ symbols. Try those too.

I disagree. Links are not only an inconvenience for me personally, but they also make moderating an absolute bitch, because the Mod then has to click every link to check no rulebreaking is occurring. @ symbols are fine, but usually i prefer quoting, because it means we dont lose the facts.

@ Nikanor

, regarding Maemuki: No, I agree that she's one of the scummiest people here. I just wish BM would spell out his reasoning for wanting her lynched.

Why do YOU want her lynched?

BM

[Battle Mage]

Just want to add, I am starting to understand the case a wee bit better against Mae (I can be slow sometimes) but BMs last post has helped me understand a bit more... I am still unsure of it but I do at least have a better understanding of where he maybe coming from...Still confused as to what it matters about the timing of how long she kept the proxy vote... maybe alcohol will help tonight

You cant deny it's a BIT wierd that she did something she felt was a bad idea, but in such a manner, as that she didnt expressly do as i asked...

Wierd, and more anti-town than pro-town imo.

BM

[Battle Mage]

for once in your life? lol How long have you known me exactly??

BM

If I said "For once in my life, I agree with George Bush" would you ask me how long I'd known George Bush?

That is quite possibly the most idiotic retort i've EVER heard. 0.o

You said "for once in your life" you agreed with me, which implies u have a history of disagreeing with me, but you've only known me 2 or 3 days.

Likewise, if you had never expressed any previous judgement on George Bush, and suddenly made that comment, everyone within earshot would think it was very odd.

You have 1 post to redeem yourself.

I tend to internalize things that are "I disagree with you because of [insert reasoning that will cause a pointless argument]" So maybe that's why I never mentioned it before? The Mastin-posting issue, for example. I totally disagree with you on that. When I've seen you around, I've read your posts and disagreed, but obviously I didn't express this in thread because I wasn't in the game...

Mastin-posting issue? Remind me.

BM

[Battle Mage]

Vote: Nikanor

I'm feeling more amicable towards KittyMo, and i'm not sure what to make of the lack of wagon on Maemuki. Thoughts on CSL's replacement?
I like a Nikanor vote atm. He's been decidedly neutral, and playing far more competently than i'd expect from one of Haylen's clique.

Seems to be running the play atm, so a bit of heat on him can't be a bad thing.

BM

[Battle Mage]

There is no wagon on Maemuki because you stopped voting her. I like your case and her reactions to it are stressed out. I want to see her thought out defense before I decide to move my vote or not. The fact your unvoted because CSL asked you to is pretty strange.

My vote alone is not really a wagon. And it's completely and utterly useless. Clearly she is feeling a bit of heat, but i get very impatient with towns that arent willing to move their votes around a bit on Day 1 especially.

I'll go back to questionning her later, i'm sure, but for now, i think we're better off moving on, than completely stagnating.

If YOU want pressure on Maemuki, how about YOU vote for her?

I agree on the CSL thing, but i was a bit out of sorts, given the amount of heat i was getting. I'll concede my reaction was more anti-town than anything, but in practice, it really doesnt matter. My vote was effectively on Maemuki, and now it isnt. I was just trying to stop him from tunneling me.

CSL replacing out is annoying and if anything a slight scum tell. He recently replaced out of my game in a similar fashion and was scum.

Thats very interesting to know. I think it's more anti-town than protown, given he was under alot of heat, but then, he didnt seem to take the game that seriously anyway, and i dont think he'd have been lynched today if he'd stuck around. Did he post a link to a game of his as town? That could be an interesting read.

BM

[Battle Mage]

I like a Nikanor vote atm. He's been decidedly neutral, and playing far more competently than i'd expect from one of Haylen's clique.

What do you mean when you say, 'decidedly neutral?' Do you mean that I am not hopping my vote all over the place like you are?

Yep. And because i percieve you as directing traffic and offering commentary, more than getting your hands dirty with the rest of us.

Dont take offence-i think it's a good strategy. But i think Nikanor-town would be more aggressive and direct in scumhunting.

I actually agree with your Nikanor vote. Pressuring the quieter people (such as myself) is a pro-town thing to do, imo.

I wouldnt have you down as a "quieter" person. But certainly one of the more intelligent players here.

BM

[Battle Mage]

He's been decidedly neutral, and playing far more competently than i'd expect from one of Haylen's clique.

Are you saying I suck?

No lol. It was a poorly worded comment anyway- i dont know most of the people in your little friendship group. But, my general perception is that people who play "sheep" arent likely to be the best scumhunters in the world.

BM

[Battle Mage]

Well, I hope I am allowed to use this.. but I have a scum Meta on CSL...

not posting at all only for a few posts that are of absolute no help to the game before replacing... in this instance he was scum, the resemblance to his actions in this game are uncannily similar

http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 37&start=0

many of you know this game, I played many of you... but yea, seems very similar to CSL as scum

Good as that is, i'd like to see a game of his as town, just to ensure that the meta is CSL-scum, and not CSL-personality.

BM

[Battle Mage]

Vote: Nikanor

I'm feeling more amicable towards KittyMo, and i'm not sure what to make of the lack of wagon on Maemuki. Thoughts on CSL's replacement?
I like a Nikanor vote atm. He's been decidedly neutral, and playing far more competently than i'd expect from one of Haylen's clique.

Seems to be running the play atm, so a bit of heat on him can't be a bad thing.

BM

Well, if CSL was lying about being V/LA (as some of you have claimed), we could just spare the replacement process under lynch all liars. But is it fair to transfer that proclamation? I'm not so sure. This could be CSL-scum trying to give his team a better shot after botching it, or it could be CSL-town bailing out after merely sound scummy - which would be really really really rude for the replacement player, but certainly possible.

I dont think it's either. Tbh, i dont think he really cared about the game enough to replace out tactically to help his town. I cant really see the replacement itself as a scumtell, unless he only does that as scum. The lying could be though.

BM, that strikes me as incredibly senseless. We're still waiting for a defense from Maemuki and you're going to shift pressure onto Nikanor because he's...'running the play?' I can understand being loose with your vote, but you don't stop pressuring someone you find scummy BEFORE they actually respond to said pressure!

I got bored. You could have hopped on the wagon, but didnt. You still could. My vote is not the beall and endall.
You might be right, but i dont feel we are learning much today if we just wait the whole of it pushing Maemuki.

And I'm a bit concerned about the statement, "don't sure what to make of the lack of wagon on Maemuki." Are you honestly switching your vote simply because no wagon originated on Maemuki? Do you still think Maemuki is scummy?

If Maemuki was scum, i expect some scumbags would have prematurely bussed. The lack of a wagon suggests Maemuki might be town, and scum dont want to have their names on the town-wagon if possible.
We've spent enough time on her. I'm gonna give CSL a read.

BM

[Battle Mage]

Dont take offence-i think it's a good strategy. But i think Nikanor-town would be more aggressive and direct in scumhunting.

Are you saying that based on my meta?

No. I cant reference my meta on you anyway. It's just my gut.

BM

[Battle Mage]

read the 3 games as town he has in his wiki. In all 3 he is very nervy and unsure with his vote, and tries to actively scumhunt with PBPA's and stuff. Very unlike his approach here.

Unvote, Vote: Yellowbunny

BM

[Battle Mage]

ive got about 10 minutes, so lets see what i can come up with:

I know that it's leaning me towards thinking of you as either town or scum, but I just can't put my finger on whether or not......

This doesn't make any sense.

Actually it does. But it'd be much more helpful for us if he made a decision soon.

BM

[Battle Mage]

ckool 362: Waaay to fence sit. That post is either town or scum.... lol very helpful.

*gasp*

The lol scumtell!

Heh.

Sorry. I haven't played a mafia game here for a good while, so I'm a bit rusty.

Erm, you were in a mafia game of mine very recently. 0.o'

BM

[Battle Mage]

read the 3 games as town he has in his wiki. In all 3 he is very nervy and unsure with his vote, and tries to actively scumhunt with PBPA's and stuff. Very unlike his approach here.

Unvote, Vote: Yellowbunny

BM

Are you talking about Yellow Bunny here or CSL? I presume CSL as YB has not posted yet.. I understand your vote if it was on CSL for his actions, but I would like to hear from YellowBunny first before I make any decisions on YB, I do think though Bunny has ALOT to dig himself out off, but lets give him a chance to do so/

That's weak. They have the same role pm. CSL was decidedly playing to his scum meta. Of course we will hear from YB, but lets put him a little nearer a lynch first eh?

BM

[Battle Mage]

I'm maintaining my vote on YB/CSL

until an adequate post is made by the bunny

.

Why add the disclaimer (italicised by moi)?

BM

[Battle Mage]

Sorry I didn't notice we flipped to another page, I completely missed this.

There is no wagon on Maemuki because you stopped voting her. I like your case and her reactions to it are stressed out. I want to see her thought out defense before I decide to move my vote or not. The fact your unvoted because CSL asked you to is pretty strange.

My vote alone is not really a wagon. And it's completely and utterly useless. Clearly she is feeling a bit of heat, but i get very impatient with towns that arent willing to move their votes around a bit on Day 1 especially.

I'll go back to questionning her later, i'm sure, but for now, i think we're better off moving on, than completely stagnating.

If YOU want pressure on Maemuki, how about YOU vote for her?

I agree on the CSL thing, but i was a bit out of sorts, given the amount of heat i was getting. I'll concede my reaction was more anti-town than anything, but in practice, it really doesnt matter. My vote was effectively on Maemuki, and now it isnt. I was just trying to stop him from tunneling me.

There are two reasons my vote isn't on Maemuki. The first is CSL and his actions in this game. He did a lot of nothing, came under some slight pressure and then bailed, just like my game where he was scum. I am happy with my vote on that player slot right now.

The other reason was because despite how much you were pushing Maemuki you weren't voting her. You unvoted because CSL, another player I find scummy, asked you to and you never put it back on her. Even after CSL started to lurk and then asked for replacement. Makes me believe you don't believe fully in your case in the first place.

When you say i "dont believe fully in my case", what you actually mean is, "i'm not 100% convinced in it", amirite?

Besides, you shouldnt be voting based on my opinion of my case. If YOU believe my case had merit, you vote on that.

@Haylen - OMG, SCUMSLIP!

BM

[Battle Mage]

My posting is gonna be sporadic this weekend, I along with my entire family is dosed with the flu and I am planning on spending as little time at the computer as possible. However I will say Sotty makes a very good point against BM

hello snidey.

BM

[Battle Mage]

skimmed the Yellowbunny post. Big surprise.

Not a terrible play given his position, but obvscum nonetheless.

BM

[Battle Mage]

I cant be bothered to start replying to stuff now. Ah hell, i'll choose 1 post, and reply to that. But anything else can wait till i feel more amenable.

YellowBunny is scum. KittyMo is scum. Nikanor is town. Netopalis is town.

I'd hop to a KittyMo wagon at deadline if needed.

BM

[Battle Mage]

skimmed the Yellowbunny post. Big surprise.

Not a terrible play given his position, but obvscum nonetheless.

BM

Uhh what? Perhaps my definition of 'obv' differs wildly from yours, but I failed to see anything particularly scummy about that post! Perhaps it dwelled a little bit too much on "BM is rude and should be lynched for such" (which is the straw-man I pointed out other players using before) but it made some good points and was coherent, which alone makes me instantly like YB over CSL.

Lol, you wish.

It's completely tunnel-visioned, which is far more anti-town than it is protown from a new player joining the game. Moreover, he comes in with a big wagon on him, and instead of voting based on genuine suspicions, he attacks a prominent figure (can i say that? ) on his wagon.
VE-RY protown.

BM

YB - slight-scum: I certainly agree that CSL appeared to be white-knighting, but there's quite a bit more than that he did you need to dig out of. Still, if your other posts are like that first one you could very well escape his problems.

BM - neutral read: I understand your playstyle, and don't count it against you, but that just means I don't see you as scummy where others do, not that I see you as town for it.

FoS: Hito

I cant handle sentences anymore. So here goes:

1. What is with the "incentivising" towards YB? If you think someone is scum, you put them under pressure right? Instead, you seem to be behaving overly nice, and giving him as much opportunity as possible to get himself out of trouble. I'd almost be inclined to call it buddying.

2. The disclaimer on the end of your comment about me, rings as scummy- as in you are keeping your options open to wagon me later. It definitely doesnt read as a genuine opinion.

BM

[Battle Mage]

Ugh, why did i sign the middle of my post? 0.o lol

skimmed the Yellowbunny post. Big surprise.

Not a terrible play given his position, but obvscum nonetheless.

BM

hmmm, not sure I like this.. I made the point of selective reading earlier when you said you skimmed my post and would not read the rest, now you are doing the same to YB post?

really not liking this now, that's 2 accounts of

confessed

selective reading from BM

This is one of 2 reasons i'm discouraged from putting extra effort in here. Major facepalm for you Jason. -.-

Read your post again, especially the italics, and then explain why you think it is scummy.

BM

[Battle Mage]

I cant be bothered to start replying to stuff now. Ah hell, i'll choose 1 post, and reply to that. But anything else can wait till i feel more amenable.

YellowBunny is scum. KittyMo is scum. Nikanor is town. Netopalis is town.

I'd hop to a KittyMo wagon at deadline if needed.

BM

What? Ummmm. I recall you calling me obvtown earlier. What changed?

You're also flipping on Nikanor a lot. What's up with that?

Yeh, i just came to say i changed my mind on you again. After your incredibly distasteful post in Appenine Mafia, i've decided that you just have a personal axe to grind with me, and thus, i cant really judge you in the same way as other people here. You could be town.

Speaking of Appenine, having read it, you should have a good read on me as town, and hence not have to ask your last question. Frankly, i've only changed my mind on Nikanor once- i felt he was a bit scummy, and now i think he is probably town. Is that so hard to get your head around??

BM

[Battle Mage]

It's completely tunnel-visioned, which is far more anti-town than it is protown from a new player joining the game. Moreover, he comes in with a big wagon on him, and instead of voting based on genuine suspicions, he attacks a prominent figure (can i say that? Wink) on his wagon.

See, BM, this is the problem when you don't read things. I was very annoyed when reading this thread and making my notes that I had little else to comment on other than you, and discuss this (both the reasons for it and the effects on my analysis of everyone) in my first post. If you had bothered to READ, you would know this.

Why would i read a post by you, if i know all it will contain is an angry rant about me?? lmao xD

This is one of 2 reasons i'm discouraged from putting extra effort in here. Major facepalm for you Jason. -.-

Read your post again, especially the italics, and then explain why you think it is scummy. Razz

I know this is directed at Jason, but this just screams for a response. BM, while not reading isn't necessarily scummy, explain to me how its pro-town behavior.

Lol, i didnt say it was. But i think i said i would reply at some point, and i do intend to. However, nobody likes to play a forum game where all they get is a string of abuse. I'm sure you'll forgive me if i have more fulfilling things to do with my time than bicker pointlessly with you.

Oh, for the love of all that is good and holy and right in the world, DO YOU THINK YOU COULD GIVE US A FREAKING REASON FOR YOUR ASSERTATIONS?!?! I mean, come on, you expect us to BLINDLY follow every single time you post and swallow wholly every time you declare from your high horse that someone "is scum" or "is town"? WHY is Yellowbunny scum? WHY is KittyMo scum? WHY is Nikanor town? WHY am I town? WHY should ANY of us listen to ANYTHING you have to say when your posts have been absolutely useless and ridiculously illogical?

His magic 8-ball told him. Gosh, Neto, get with the program pal...

buddying another person who dislikes me. Very protown...

As for why everyone else should vote for BM, I don't like telling people how I think they should vote. So lets just call this why *I'm* voting for BM:

Woah Woah Woah. You...erm...dont like telling people how to vote? How do you expect to lynch scum with that attitude? 0.o

1.) BM makes wild accusations, has very little to back them up, and his opinions/votes change faster than the weather in Chicago (and, being from Chicago, let me tell you, that is VERY RAPIDLY AND FREQUENTLY). I am not the only one who commented on this (for example, see KittyMo's 406).

Wild accusations? It's Day 1. Unlike you, i want this game to progress, and thus, i will bandwagon, and attempt to pressure people, in order to work out their alignment. You can like it or lump it, but with a little co-operation it DOES work.

Changing opinions is a maaassive towntell btw. Unless your accusation is that i'm looking "too townie"?

2.) I do not see how his taunting of CSL (and to a lesser extent, Mae) was designed to do anything other than make them upset and cause them to become overemotional and/or quit.

Aww didums! Rofl xD
No really, i shed a tear. Several in fact.

Dont forget, you are the new CSL. Surely you're happy you were able to replace in right? You dont sound very grateful-given according to you, it's thanks to me that you're here.

It is one thing to note buddying behavior and follow up on it, but what he did was completely over the top and inappropriate. This seems consistent with scum who is trying to build up a bs case.

Lol, i genuinely believed they were a couple. I highly doubt i was the only one. I played a game like that a little while back, and it really does affect your reads. Whether you acknowledge it or not, CSL was buddying Mae intentionally, and obviously, in an attempt to look scummy. As far as i can see, that's more a towntell than anything else.

Anyway, if you want an apology for me not knowing the personal history of every played on MS...actually, you can swing for it. lmao

Do you think its a coincidence that he did this to a player who is known from his meta to be a very weak (and, if this game is any evidence) emotional player?

Ehhhh?? I DON'T EVEN KNOW THE GUY!

Seriously, what is up with you? :S

3.) Hrm...I don't have a third bullet,

That doesnt mean we're gonna keep you around till Night 3.

so I'll just say that lynching BM decreases the likelihood of any rabbit-on-player decapitations. (And your emphasis on HER is much appreciated hehe)

i dont get it.

Hate to say it, but I think this reasoning of CSL actions is bullshit, I don't see any evidence of CSL defending Maemuki simply because of her gender. Correct me if I am wrong, but he just doesn't see the case on her. The fact she is a female seems inconsequential to that.

BM's whole "zomg, you're a COUPLE!" indicates to me that he thought gender was something of an issue (I believe he would have framed his attack differently if it were not for that).

Yeh, you're right. If they had been the same gender, i'd probably have thought they were really close friends before i called them out on being homosexuals. I guess i'm not as PC as you thought, huh?

BM

[Battle Mage]

I cant be bothered to start replying to stuff now. Ah hell, i'll choose 1 post, and reply to that. But anything else can wait till i feel more amenable.

YellowBunny is scum. KittyMo is scum. Nikanor is town. Netopalis is town.

I'd hop to a KittyMo wagon at deadline if needed.

BM

Oh, for the love of all that is good and holy and right in the world, DO YOU THINK YOU COULD GIVE US A FREAKING REASON FOR YOUR ASSERTATIONS?!?! I mean, come on, you expect us to BLINDLY follow every single time you post and swallow wholly every time you declare from your high horse that someone "is scum" or "is town"? WHY is Yellowbunny scum? WHY is KittyMo scum? WHY is Nikanor town? WHY am I town? WHY should ANY of us listen to ANYTHING you have to say when your posts have been absolutely useless and ridiculously illogical?

I'm getting frustrated. I need to step away. I'll post again later today.

Lol, calm down please. I dont expect you to FOLLOW me. I expect you to take my opinions as being well...my opinions.

Feel free to let your brain kick in and take some of the strain A-N-Y time now.

Also, how can posting alignments without analysis be "illogical"?

BM

[Battle Mage]

YB - slight-scum: I certainly agree that CSL appeared to be white-knighting, but there's quite a bit more than that he did you need to dig out of. Still, if your other posts are like that first one you could very well escape his problems.

BM - neutral read: I understand your playstyle, and don't count it against you, but that just means I don't see you as scummy where others do, not that I see you as town for it.

FoS: Hito

I cant handle sentences anymore. So here goes:

1. What is with the "incentivising" towards YB? If you think someone is scum, you put them under pressure right? Instead, you seem to be behaving overly nice, and giving him as much opportunity as possible to get himself out of trouble. I'd almost be inclined to call it buddying.

2. The disclaimer on the end of your comment about me, rings as scummy- as in you are keeping your options open to wagon me later. It definitely doesnt read as a genuine opinion.

BM

1. I'm giving HER a chance to get HERself out of trouble (;)) because while I think CSL acted somewhat scummy he also acted predominantly like an idiot and if she can coherently defend herself without looking scummy, I'm willing to put more stock into CSL simply being a bumbling townie.

YB is female? *shrugs* Ok...

The above is all valid, but you still havent really answered my concern. WHY are you telling YB this? Why not keep quiet and see what YB does, rather than acting overly encouraging, as you are coming across to me at least?

2. The disclaimer was clarification. I was defending you against earlier accusations, and I was pointing out that wasn't because I had gotten large town-reads off of you, but because the 'case' against you was illogical and unfair.

Ok, gotcha.

And I'm going to have to agree with Neto that I want to see why you think a.) KittyMo is scum and b.) Neto is town.

I think i've talked enough on a. I cant remember my stance on Neto, but i suspect it was because, at the time of writing, i felt his aggression towards me was more newb-town getting antsy than scum.

BM

[Battle Mage]

Just a heads up, I don't post much here on weekends. Simply because I'm not sat at the computer for most of the day.

My best guess on his play is that he is suffering from "damsel in distress" syndrome. (Since I've noticed a disporpotinaly large number of females in this game as opposed to most others I've played (yay!), feel free to back me up on this, as I'm sure you're quite familiar with the signs of this syndrome). I read his reaction as him seeing a female in trouble, and getting overly defensive about helping her out. Regardless of how you feel about such actions (and gender roles and things of that nature), I doubt anyone will argue with me when I say that for a fair number of men, this sort of behavior is is a knee-jerk reaction -- much in the same way that men will open a door for a woman, feel that they need to pay for both on a date, carry a bag/package for a woman, ect. Now, of course, what CSL did was not pro-town in the sense that it can be interpreted as some sort of in-game relationship between the two, plus he is defending a player based on nothing more than gender...but a foolish move does not always imply scum.

Hate to say it, but I think this reasoning of CSL actions is bullshit, I don't see any evidence of CSL defending Maemuki simply because of her gender. Correct me if I am wrong, but he just doesn't see the case on her. The fact she is a female seems inconsequential to that.

When you say i "dont believe fully in my case", what you actually mean is, "i'm not 100% convinced in it", amirite?

Besides, you shouldnt be voting based on my opinion of my case. If YOU believe my case had merit, you vote on that.

It means that you didn't believe what you were saying enough to vote, yet at the same time you were complaining about the lack of wagon on her. Those two things don't add up.

Ah ok. I actually have no idea then. Lol

I'll look into this in a sec.

BM

[Battle Mage]

Ah no, i'm with you now!

Basically, i unvoted Mae because CSL was OMGUSing and my Maemuki vote was going nowhere. Obviously i wasnt 100% sure Mae was scum, but i did want a wagon on her. What else can i say? i bore easily.

BM

[Battle Mage]

sarcasm?

BM

[Battle Mage]

What? No. That was incredibly clever and as a person who tries to be funny, I am congratulating you on the joke.

aww *blushes*

Ya know what, thanks to you, i might actually reply to YB's big rant post TONIGHT.

BM

[Battle Mage]

To be quite frank, YB, I asked for bullet points specifically to give you a chance to state a case for BM outside of "I don't like him/he's wagoning me" and what you provided only bolstered BM's accusations. Your bullet points are basicially 1.) BM is spastic and 2.) BM is a jerk. I'm not convinced either of those are scumtells.

I've said it before and I'll stand by it - while BM's style is quite unlike mine, I very much appreciate it for increasing the tempo and eliciting unlikely responses. You can dislike his style all you want but it is not, not, not a clear indicator of scum, no matter how annoying it may be.

I understand your point about his playstyle. And, fwiw, although I think what he did with CSL is inappropriate, I don't have a problem with BM the player -- I think he's amusing, and has been leading this game around by a leash (which takes considerable skill).

Lol, whats with all the flattery tonight? You KNOW it gets you everywhere! xD

Anyway, thinking about what you said, I don't think you can legitimately dismiss my point 1 by saying it boils down to BM being spastic. Being wishy-washy is a known scum tell.

INCORRECT, INCORRECT, INCORRECT. Anyone who told you that "being wishy-washy" was a scumtell, should be strung up irl. It's one of the few strong towntells left these days...

I still have to disagree with you on your argument with my point 2. To me, it just does not make ANY sense that a town aligned player would behave in that manner - it seems like the entire point of his "relationship" posts were designed to upset CSL, not scumhunt.

Haha, why in the HELL would CSL be upset? I dont think suggesting he might be in a relationship with a member of the opposite sex who he was buddying like stink, is really something he'd be offended about. It's only Maemuki who appeared to have a problem with it-and thats not too surprising, given she wasnt participating in the buddying.

I still think BM is a good candidate for a lynch today. I agree that its not a slam dunk case, but I think its reasonable simply for lack of more compelling cases. Likewise, I think that the case Kitty put forward is equally reasonable, so I'd be just as satisfied with a ck lynch today. (I'd support a Mae lynch, but I'd prefer to see BM or CK.)

Such short deadlines in such an active game is ridiculous. But it does keep things fresh, which i do like.

I'm not aware of any real scumminess from Ckool, so i will iso him.

@BM: Your post makes me giggle - you are funny.

Changing opinions is a maaassive towntell btw. Unless your accusation is that i'm looking "too townie"?

And I see you are also anti-wiki,

That's true. The wiki is hideously out of date. Ask Yos.
How did you know?

but that's okay, cuz I think town can read, and see that it is, in fact, a scum tell. Btw, what motivation does town have to pretend that a scum tell is a town tell? /ponders

Haha, rather than feeding people utter BS, how about you ask around? This applies to everyone. Ask as many experienced players as you can whether being openly wishy-washy is a towntell or a scumtell, and i guarantee you that anyone worth their salt in mafia will tell you the same as i have.

Your last question hits the nail on the head. I think that 98% of players who are Mafia will try and play as honestly as possible as far as they can, on things that can be outright proven or disproven.

Please can i direct your attention to Appenine Mafia, in the New York forum. It's just finished, and we had a discussion like this earlier in that game. Once again, i was under attack for "wishy-washiness", and my stance was the same. It is a towntell. Needless to say, i was town there too.

It's fairly easy to understand why. The vast majority of scumbags-with the possible exception of vets, will play for consistency points, because, for a long time, people DID follow the wiki, and believed that any inconsistency regarding their suspicions would be viewed as scummy. It's for this reason too, that tunnel-visioning was often exploited by scum, in order to let them cruise through the game, without having to answer for much. See Ready Salted Mafia, also in the New York forum, for an example of BM-scum doing this, and getting to a 3 person endgame, only to be hammered by the remaining player. That was a long time ago though, and things have moved on since then.

Being openly inconsistent always attracts attention, and scum dont want lots of attention on them. Especially when they are naturally scummy-seeming players.

But, as i said, don't just take this from me. Ask Yosarian2/ MeMe/ Fonzie.

Sorry to ask, but could someone please tell me what 'white knighting' means.

I'm glad i didnt miss this. Seeing as YB didnt ask, i will.

Jason, why are you "sorry to ask"?

BM

[Battle Mage]

sorry to ask is just a phrase really, I didn't know it and asking makes me come across as dumb.. hence the sorry to ask... its a local thing here probably

k, accepted.

BM

[Battle Mage]

just weighing in to say, i dont support the current wagon on Maemuki. Due to information from outside of the game, that has been brought to my attention recently, i think applying standard scumtells to Maemuki is a bad idea. I also feel that if anyone will be able to give an accurate read on Maemuki, it is Haylen. So, we need to hear from her.

I'm catching up now, but without the go-ahead from Haylen, i wont be voting Maemuki at deadline (whenever that is).

BM

[Battle Mage]

Unvote. Vote: Netopalis.

I'm not going to vote for Maemuki simply because I feel as if we can learn more from her if we let her live for the moment. As it is now, the only thing we'll know if she flips scum is that YB would be very likely scum. I feel as if we should get more from that playerspot before eliminating it.

I actually like this alot. I get "end of day bussing" vibes from it. At the point you made this post, a Netopalis lynch looks highly unlikely, but you wanna get some good distancing in. On the plus side for you, i totally agree with your view on what we do with Maemuki. And i dont think a Maemuki-scum flip necessarily means YB is scum. As we've already discussed here, they are very close outside of the game, and i think that's what we got a taste of here.

I can also sympathise with a Netopalis vote. He isn't likely to help much, and if me and him both stay alive for any duration in the game, it's likely to cause countless problems if he is town. I could well see him as scum.

Unvote, Vote: Netopalis

BM

[Battle Mage]

Nikanor, you've seen me play town. I tend to overexplain as town as well, imo. Do you agree?

Now that I've reread that game, no. You did quite a poor job at defending yourself in that game, actually. Mind trying to convince me or point me to where I should be looking in that game where you overdefended?

I recall going back and explaining the same thing several times. Want me to quote things?

Kitty, join the Netopalis wagon. Let's see if Nikanor has the kahunas to stay, or whether he will bail, now he knows that if Neto flips scum, he'll be next.

BM

[Battle Mage]

I think what YB is trying to say is that you can't expect her to answer for CSL's actions because she's not CSL - a statement which I agree with. I think her play has been perfectly fine...and I think we would be rather remiss if we were to lynch her when she's just arrived.

This is incredibly poor. Especially from someone who is in favour of policy lynching me. Lol

BM

[Battle Mage]

Honestly, Battle Mage, I feel horrible. What can I do to get you to forgive me?

lol you can vote with me for the rest of the day. I think you're probably town anyway, so i might be willing to return the favour tomorrow.

BM

[Battle Mage]

@BM: HAPPY BIRTHDAY!

INCORRECT, INCORRECT, INCORRECT. Anyone who told you that "being wishy-washy" was a scumtell, should be strung up irl. It's one of the few strong towntells left these days...

<other stuff>
Haha, rather than feeding people utter BS, how about you ask around? This applies to everyone. Ask as many experienced players as you can whether being openly wishy-washy is a towntell or a scumtell, and i guarantee you that anyone worth their salt in mafia will tell you the same as i have.

Your last question hits the nail on the head. I think that 98% of players who are Mafia will try and play as honestly as possible as far as they can, on things that can be outright proven or disproven.

Please can i direct your attention to Appenine Mafia, in the New York forum. It's just finished, and we had a discussion like this earlier in that game. Once again, i was under attack for "wishy-washiness", and my stance was the same. It is a towntell. Needless to say, i was town there too.

It's fairly easy to understand why. The vast majority of scumbags-with the possible exception of vets, will play for consistency points, because, for a long time, people DID follow the wiki, and believed that any inconsistency regarding their suspicions would be viewed as scummy. It's for this reason too, that tunnel-visioning was often exploited by scum, in order to let them cruise through the game, without having to answer for much. See Ready Salted Mafia, also in the New York forum, for an example of BM-scum doing this, and getting to a 3 person endgame, only to be hammered by the remaining player. That was a long time ago though, and things have moved on since then.

Being openly inconsistent always attracts attention, and scum dont want lots of attention on them. Especially when they are naturally scummy-seeming players.

But, as i said, don't just take this from me. Ask Yosarian2/ MeMe/ Fonzie.

Okay, I can see your point about it ceasing to be a scum tell (scum learn its a scum tell, so avoid it). But I fail to see how its a town tell. If you're an intelligent scum (you = some scum in general, not you = BM), and know that being consistent is considered the new scum tell (for reasons you described), then you behave in a wishy-washy manner to avoid that. So according to your argument, that would seem that consistency in voting has devolved into a null-tell, no? Or am I missing something?

I take your point, and perhaps you are right. It's hard to explain, but in practice, i feel there is a mid-point, as below:

1. Inconsistency is deemed scummy.
2. Scum play consistently.
3. Consistency becomes deemed scummy.

I think we are at 2. That is, scum play for consistency points, because Consistency hasnt been widely-deemed a scumtell. The proof of this can be found with you, and countless others who didnt realise that consistency was scummy. Because the majority haven't worked it out yet, the majority of scumbags won't have caught on. So, i believe atm, Consistency still can be considered a scumtell, although that will inevitably change in time.

Ya know what, thanks to you, i might actually reply to YB's big rant post TONIGHT. Very Happy

Aw, it isn't a rant -- its a comprehensive post. Its not my fault you gave me the most to comment on! Oh, and I'm still waiting for you to answer my questions plz kk thx. ^^

Yeh, i never actually got round to it. Haha. Will do tonight perhaps.

CSL = man to save the damsel in distress? Lol. That is an odd basis. Where did you get this from? Meta evidence? The only way you can base this mentality is that you know him. It's much more likely that CSL has a reason to defend Mae then anything.

I already explained my rational here. That was my best guess based on how CSL was behaving. CSL is town aligned, and he and Mae are not tied together in any way (ie they aren't a mason pair or anything like that) so that is my best guess.

Turns out this is true. CSL and Mae actually are lovers. Ironically, I was right all along. xD

BM

[Battle Mage]

just weighing in to say, i dont support the current wagon on Maemuki. Due to information from outside of the game, that has been brought to my attention recently, i think applying standard scumtells to Maemuki is a bad idea. I also feel that if anyone will be able to give an accurate read on Maemuki, it is Haylen. So, we need to hear from her.

I'm catching up now, but without the go-ahead from Haylen, i wont be voting Maemuki at deadline (whenever that is).

BM

Now wait just a cotton-picking minute. You spend the *entire* game going against Maemuki, then suddenly flip due to vague "outside information"???

Lol, i havent spent the entire game going against Maemuki. I thought she was worth pursuing early on. My vote hasn't been on her for ages. Previously i was voting YellowBunny. Who is still probably scum.

And then you accuse me of being scum because *Nikanor* is scum???


??!?

????!!!!

!!!!!!!?!?!?!??!?!?!?


!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Not BECAUSE Nikanor is scum. Although i feel if you flip scum, he will definitely be worth pursuing. I dont see any need to post a case on you atm. But, you can answer the following:

Who else should we be lynching today?
Why are you not casting a remotely useful vote?

From the VC, im not sure we have alot of other choice today. There's no alternative wagons out there. So, you should probably claim too. If you're a Cop or something, i might consider taking my vote(s) off.

Also, thanks Kitty.

BM

[Battle Mage]

Incidentally, since I'm at L-2, do you folks want a claim?

Let's put it like this: Claim Cop, or die.

BM

[Battle Mage]

Ungh, the specter of 'out of game information' rears it's ugly head...as I said before, I'm really reluctant to lynch an active player with so many lurkers. That makes lurking a 'winning move', because of course someone who's posting content can have their posts dissected while people who are not posting never say anything scummy! For now, my vote's going to stay where it is. I know that a no-lynch is bad for town and because of the chaining you've mentioned we could get some information off of a Neto lynch, but to be quite frank I'm not currently comfortable lynching neto and giving scum a potential don't-talk pass. It will depend in part on what Haylen and Maemuki say, if anything. (and ck-replacement, if he/she is here before deadline.)

My issue with this is my recently completely Large Normal - Appenine Mafia. We basically lost because we felt obliged to lynch lurkers, and the active mafia cruised to victory. Lurking isnt a horrendous problem in this game, and frankly, a lurker is more useful to the town than Neto anyway.

And yes, while you mention Ckool-i could see him as scum. His "for the good of the town" post was very wierd...

If you switch your vote to him, or better still, Yellowbunny, i might be willing to hop over there at deadline. But i'm not allowing Maemuki to be lynched without the go-ahead from Haylen.

BM

[Battle Mage]

No...but I don't see *her* actions as scummy and I don't see people attacking her for *her* actions - I see people attacking her for CSL's actions which were indeed scummy.

This post indicates that you really aren't following the game at all....

BM

[Battle Mage]

Well, I've posted cases on you numerous times. I'm not going to reiterate it. I think that you're an illogical player, a bully and you smell of pea soup.

I've given you ample opportunity to do something helpful. All you've done is whinge and whine and attempted to bait me. Instead of playing mafia, you've tried to start a personal conflict, and shown that you are unwilling to give people a chance. I'm not an illogical player, but i'll concede that being a bully is sometimes necessary in this game. *shrug*

But, if you want an example of something completely devoid of logic, how about this:

With that in mind, I'm not going to claim just based on *your* post. I want to know what the *town* thinks, and you don't quite seem to understand that you are not the town.

You dont seem to realise how ridiculous your request is. IF you were town, you'd know that claiming may be essential to save your ass. Are you going to trust the judgement of people who want you lynched? Likewise, what kind of answer do you expect from people who aren't part of your wagon?

I dont see any reason for someone who is town, to ask whether they should claim or not. It's just an attempt to appeal and look compliant.

I am not casitng a "useful vote" as you put it because I'm not 100% convinced on Maemuki. If it comes to deadline, sure, I'll vote for her. That being said, I don't feel that strongly about it and would really just do so because I think that it's slightly more likely than not that she's scum.

Who said anything about Maemuki being the only useful vote? I dont think she is even that!

You feel there is a more than 50% chance she is scum? Your vote should be on her. It isn't. Because you are talking utter trash.

I'm not voting for Nikanor because I don't want to be accused of an OMGUS attack or some sort of bussing play being read into my posts which, I assure you, is not there because I am most certainly town.

Haha, if you are town, why are you afraid to vote Nikanor because you might look scummy?

None of the other players really strike me as that scummy, although I am incredibly disappointed that Kittymo let you bully her into voting as you wish and not based on how she actually feels.

Appeal to emotion. It's for the best anyway. As she herself acknowledged-her personal opinion on you has affected her read. This way, she can move her vote as she wishes, without you guilt-tripping her. Which btw, is terrible form.

BM

[Battle Mage]

That post was 4 pages back. That indicates that *you* aren't following the game at all, if you're just now jumping on that.

I've been V/LA. I'm catching up now. Are you really attacking me based on activity, when your case on me rides solely on the fact that i post alot? lmao

BM

[Battle Mage]

Fine, then. I'll claim. Great job, you just outed your Doc.

Lol, not sure i'm buying it. It's THE classic scum claim on Day 1.

BM

[Battle Mage]

Trying to write a wall of text on why Day 2 will be much harder if you guys lynch me. Half of it is done.

Well, that settles it. Nothing would please me more than having fewer walls and more relevant discussion.

Unvote, vote: Maemuki

this, from Mr Spam himself? rofl

Fine. Lynch me if you want. I'm out of here for a few hours, I need to get some work done.

Do you have a better idea? Your role is a detriment until we get a claimed cop.

BM

[Battle Mage]

Actually, i'm being retarded. Why don't we just wait for a Doc counter-claim?

If you AREN'T the Doctor, simply say "Not Doc".

Not Doc

BM

[Battle Mage]

for the sake of clarity, i've PMed Zach asking if the majority required for today can be reduced to 6, given Ckool is not here, and thus cannot exercise his vote.

BM

[Battle Mage]

Neither Haylen nor Maemuki are very likely going to show up in the next 24 hours.

Oh thanks for the vote of confidence.

Go for it. It is up to you to convince me why I should be voting for Mae. Personally, I dont think I should be and will not be voting for her.

Brill. I think that means we can treat Mae as confirmed town, unless Haylen flips scum.

Unvote, Vote: Haylen

Neto can be tested tonight, because if Mae dies, we lynch him tomorrow. Mae has 1 rather glaringly obvious choice for the track, but it's her call.

I'm happy to lynch most people at this point, but Mae and Neto arent them.

BM

[Battle Mage]

BATTLEMAGE. PUT YOUR VOTE ON MAEMUKI PLEASE. Neither Haylen nor Maemuki are very likely going to show up in the next 24 hours.

I would reccomend most people do the same.

I don't totally believe the claim, but I do for the most part.

And I will break my deal with BM if it will stop a deadline no-lynch, but otherwise I am going to stick with it.

Ugh...

If the deadline wasn't a little over 12 hours away I would be starting a Kitty wagon right about now. This post is awful. Proxies are fun and cute at the start of the game but we are in a deadline situation and you are sat here trying to doge responsibility of your OWN VOTE.

The bold is extreme fence sitting. Make up your mind.

Apparently I wasn't very clear in the bold; my mistake: I'm leaning about 90% the claim is true.

Less than 12 hours left:

Unvote

Vote: Maemuki

not having the deadline-no lynch is more important. I'll make it up to BM later.

I appreciate your patience upto this point. But you must renew your vow to me now.

BM

[Battle Mage]

the double vote is fishy, and if i was a gambling man, i'd say DTMaster is responsible for this shenanigans.

BM

[Battle Mage]

@Town
Wait what... are you guys seriously going to vote the town tracker off?

FoS on YB for not unvoting post-claim

. All PR claims today are best dealt with day 2. Deadline or not, lynching an unCCed investigation role is poor play.

@Sotty7
573: Deciding on lynching the claimed Tracker vs Doctor? Extremely scummy. The correct answer is: to lynch neither claims. Tomorrow will bring with it information and alignment flips.

FoS: Sotty7

for that statement, deadline or not.

@BM
During the time of the vote count you can see that I wasn't part of the vote wagon. But to test your theory out.

That means nothing. I'm saying you are responsible for the additional vote, not that you HAVE a conventional double vote yourself.

BM

[Battle Mage]

I'm here, and not hammering. YB is likely town. Jason is scum. if Maemuki is scum, Haylen is scum. So i definitely support a Haylen lynch tomorrow.

Let's NL, and see how our power role situation resolves itself.

BM

[Battle Mage]

Unvote

BM

[Battle Mage]

I'm willing to lynch Jason.
Also, what happened to treating Mae as confirmed town if Haylen flips scum? I can't remember the exact words, but you did say something along those lines.

that was if Haylen flipped town. So yeh, something along those lines. The complete opposite in fact!

Vote: Jason

Worth a punt i guess.

BM

[Battle Mage]

bah at Self Hammer

What is this Jason? You BLATANTLY know YB is town.

BM

[Battle Mage]

if i had to pick another buddy, it might well be Hito? I didnt like that last vote.

BM

[Battle Mage]

if i had to pick another buddy, it might well be Hito? I didnt like that last vote.

BM

It was like four(ish) hours to deadline, and she specifically asked that I vote for her to make sure it happens. (As it happens, going to the movie was pushed off till tomorrow, so I will be here right until deadline.) I don't understand how you can 'not like that last vote', quite frankly. As I've stated before, I want to make sure a lynch happens. I don't really agree with your 'hyper-bandwagon right before the end', and I'm not quite sure why she's suddenly town in your eyes and jason is scum. If jason becomes the only feasible lynch target I'll vote him, but I don't see why you suddenly believe he's scum enough to just say "jason is scum." And what information we'd get out of a jason mislynch?

i believe the claim, and the self-vote is a towntell. See Appenine mafia, where a townie self-hammered in order to avoid NL.

BM

[Battle Mage]

Despite her incredibly scummy posting so far today, i'm still inclined to believe Maemuki's claim. We can let her slide for now. Whether scum want to risk it is a different story. The lack of hammer on YB concerns me a little-normally that would say "scumtell". But, i'm still kinda leaning town with the whole self-vote shenanigans. And i assume i bought into the vanilla claim. By not hammering i couldve really screwed us over, so let's hope for my sake that YB is in fact, town. xD

I think the Doc-kill reads newb-scum more than anything. So we aren't looking at the brightest, most confident, group of mafiates ever to grace MS. It makes me hesitate with people like Haylen, but i could potentially see Jason in that group.

Vote: Jason

I'd also consider a Kitty-lynch, if anyone was wondering.

BM

[Battle Mage]

OK you have yet to present a case on me despite my asking many times for you to.

That in itself is one of your biggest scumtells. I've got to go now, but i'll think about humouring you.

BM

[Battle Mage]

Sotty, what do you think about BM's change of heart regarding Mae? he seemed to be all over her then suddenly changed his mind?

I would agree that BM acted to stop a lynch from happening yesterday. He voted for me yesterday without much reasoning.

Eh, it's a townies prerogative to change their mind.

I'm willing to lynch Jason.
Also, what happened to treating Mae as confirmed town if Haylen flips scum? I can't remember the exact words, but you did say something along those lines.

that was if Haylen flipped town. So yeh, something along those lines. The complete opposite in fact!

Vote: Jason

Worth a punt i guess.

BM

Just saying it was 'worth a punt' So close to the deadline?

he then misrepped me when I got annoyed a what I thought was the self hammer claiming that I knew YB was town when I said no such thing.

I dont think NL was a bad play at all. Those whinging about it now are more likely to be scum, because NL is often seen as "anti-town".

bah at Self Hammer

What is this Jason? You BLATANTLY know YB is town.

BM

How is this BLATANTLY knowing YB is town?

If you thought he had self-hammered, why would you be upset? The sad emoticon suggests that he is town.

He then again votes me today without little reasoning and claims me asking him to provide a case is actually a scumtell.

It is. Despite this not being a newbie game, as opportunity has allowed, i will now show you how to respond to pressure.

Actually I think I would be happy with a BM lynch today and would like to put some pressure on him to answer his questions, explain his voting paterns and build a case on me.. he has voted for me both days now without making so much as a case.

Maybe im getting a little lazy, but we have exhausted quite a few routes now, and somebody needs to hang. But, in my usual vein, i'm having doubts about you.

Unvote

BM

[Battle Mage]

Despite her incredibly scummy posting so far today, i'm still inclined to believe Maemuki's claim.

By 'scummy posting,' are you talking about the fact that she is insulting herself? I would agree that that is usually scummy, but Maemuki's meta regularly calls herself dumb, so this is more of a nulltell. Correct me if I'm on the wrong track about what you mean, here.

This:

2. Kitty seemed to respond to BM a lot, and I still don't know how BM did it if Kitty was town...Or why Kitty let herself be controlled by BM.

Is horrendously scummy. If there's one thing scum absolutely despise and fear, it's townies who inexplicably trust each other. Often, it's a good guise to assume in order to make them sweat a bit.

I think the Doc-kill reads newb-scum more than anything.

Agreed. More experienced scum would have left Netopalis alone, especially when his target is easily predicted and avoided. This is a WIFOM argument, however, and should not be taken as too big a tell.

Yep. Wanna join me on a Sotty wagon? Or do you have a better idea?

BM

[Battle Mage]

Despite her incredibly scummy posting so far today, i'm still inclined to believe Maemuki's claim. We can let her slide for now. Whether scum want to risk it is a different story. The lack of hammer on YB concerns me a little-normally that would say "scumtell". But, i'm still kinda leaning town with the whole self-vote shenanigans. And i assume i bought into the vanilla claim. By not hammering i couldve really screwed us over, so let's hope for my sake that YB is in fact, town. xD

The reason there was no hammer on Yellow was because of you. You came in a decided Yellow was town too late for us to HAVE another wagon. So, normally this would be a scum tell for you, but because you were the one responsible, it's just not?

*Facepalm*

Had to read that about 6 times before i realised what you THOUGHT i was saying. But, you have completely misinterpretted me. haha

What i meant was, the lack of hammer on YB would normally make me think he was scum, because a townie wagon is generally opportunistically hammered.

Nothing in that quote by me pertains to my affiliation. If you want to attack me for not hammering, please explain why scum-BM would not hammer town-YB. Then, apologise, and move your vote to YB, or alternatively, someone we might actually lynch. There's a good boy.

At this point I am thinking that one of Yellow and Battle Mage are scum. With how BM came in so close to the deadline and stopped us from getting a lynch just screams scum to me. Yellow's initial attacks on BM were pretty bad and I just can't see them as bussing. I am still suspious of Yellow, but it has been downgraded in the face of BM's actions.

Logically, this is appalling. If you think the prevention of a lynch yesterday was anti-town, is that still true if i prevented a mislynch? Your attack is totally inconsistent.

I'd also consider a Kitty-lynch, if anyone was wondering.

What changed?

Haylen needs to post more, if she doesn't I could be happy lynching her too.

BM, Yellow and Haylen are my top three.

I'm happy lynching Haylen. At least you have been consistent.

Vote: Haylen

As far as Kitty goes, i cant remember. But i'm not 100% convinced she is town.

BM

[Battle Mage]

You do know your vote is already on me BM?

eh? I unvoted ages ago. I should be on Haylen now.

not 100% sure here, but it seems you are OMGUSing alot here... anyone who attacks you or disagrees with you, you are happy to see lynched.

I dont think so. In fact, have you actually seen me "happy to lynch" ANYONE yet? xD

Haylen isnt voting me, so it isnt OMGUS either. Altho OMGUS is null.

Again, you are happy to see Haylen lynched but where is your case against her? (just like your vote and no case against me)

She's lurking. That's a scumtell for her, no matter what she says. From what i'm aware, she is participating actively elsewhere. And as i've said already. We have to lynch someone reasonable today. That means, not a PR claim, and not a believable vanilla claim.

Seems to me you are lynch happy not caring who gets lynched. you spend the entire post attacking others, then vote Haylen.. don't really make sense to me

Lynch happy? Naaaaahhhh. Sense is for scumbags. All a townie has is gut and the element of surprise. If you think i don't care who is lynched, you obviously forgot already that yesterday, i chose not to hammer YB.

And btw, if anyone is playing the OMGUS game, it is you.

I'm happy with my vote on you as it is right now.

okey doke.

BM

[Battle Mage]

OK Yea,you unvoted sorry... and BTW how am I playing OMGUS?

You're currently voting for me because i've attacked you. You're denying that is OMGUS?

I just think you are being very lazy with your vote, thats 2 votes you have made so far on day 2 and yet to make a case on either of them

You might have a point. But i'll take you alot more seriously if you provide some content yourself, and read my posts. Why do you feel Haylens lurking is protown?

BM

[Battle Mage]

BM, I have a question for you. Do you recall that conversation we had last night about a game that finished yesterday morning? In which I said I had I only made 2 posts in a 60 page game? And do you recall me explaining to you why i only made two posts in that game? Well the same reason applies to this game. I'm extremely busy, stressed and havent been in the right frame of mind to post. I'm slowly trying to get back to it though.

Actually, if i recall correctly, your reason was "i'm scum".

It's not like you've got a broken bone or anything. Drop the excuses! xD

Therefore, your point about me being active in other games is a complete misrepresentation. I haven't been posting anywhere, at least anything that involves content, it's mainly been me getting aggressive about people accusing me of lurking.

Yeh, i concede i might be wrong on this. I got the impression you were posting elsewhere, both from knowing a particular participant in one game, and because

you have, quite clearly, indisputably, been active on site.

I don't like that way you are trying to lead the game, BM, by making people vote with you ect. I find it suspicious.

FoS BM

That's old news. How about you catch up and get back to us?

Also, my vote stands. I'm not impressed with you playing the "OMG, you're misrepping me" card, nor do i seriously think you feel that me leading the town is scummy. You know me well enough not to make this mistake.

BM

BM

[Battle Mage]

@Jason

This is a lie:

not 100% sure here, but it seems you are OMGUSing alot here... anyone who attacks you or disagrees with you, you are happy to see lynched.

Iso 69 is an example on a disagreement between BM and myself and I and don't see any votes or attacks on myself. Same with a disagreement between 78 and 80.

It's lying to say that BM attacked everyone who disagrees with him. Plus with his recent attack on Haylen it's the otherway around. Haylen is retaliating on BM for attacking her. This is misrepresenting BM.

Lol, that quote was Jason, not me. Also, to add to your evidence, Jason did not find me suspicious until i attacked him. Jason, think - would your vote be on me if i hadnt attacked you?

BM

[Battle Mage]

Oh and BM I am still waiting for an answer on how asking you to present a case is actually a scum tell on me.

As well as me saying BLAGH on what I thought was a self hammer was me BLATENTLY knowing YB was town?

I await your answers apart from me using a sad face shows I know she is town.. as I do not accept this as a valid reasoning for me being annoyed at a self hammer.

Rofl!

SOMEONE has an attitude problem.

I'm sorry if i've been unclear to this point. Just in case there was any doubt, I do not give a

flying rats ass

whether you accept my comments or not. Do you really think i make an attack on someone, and expect them to roll over and confess? This is the exact reason why making cases is over-rated. And it's also the reason why it's very hard for someone to sufficiently defend themselves without claiming. Regardless of alignment, there is no way you can excuse your scummy play. Arguing about it, is not only pointless, it's anti-town, because you waste everyone's time.

I dont think anything more needs to be said regarding you asking for an argument either. There's no need for me to present a case on ANYBODY unless i am 98% certain they are scum.

Buck your ideas up bud. You have 1 post to comment on something other than me or YB, or my vote will go back to you.

BM

[Battle Mage]

You might have a point. But i'll take you alot more seriously if you provide some content yourself, and read my posts.

Why do you feel Haylens lurking is protown?

BM

Stop putting words in my mouth and misrepping me. I never said anything about Haylen's lurking being pro-town. However I feel lurking is a null-tell as Both scum and town do it.

You said i didnt provide a case on Haylen, when i had. I assumed that meant you felt Haylens lurking was not scummy. I was right. Following?

What I did say however was that I did not like how you where voting for people without making any case against them. I pointed out both your posts on me...

eh? lmao

Day 1 vote on me just efore deadline - 'Worth A Punt I guess'
Day 2 vote on me - 'I could see Jason being in that group'
Day 2 vote on Haylen 'I am happy lynching Haylen'

all 3 votes you are yet to provide any kind of case for any of your votes. I find this highly suspicious.

You should play some more mafia games then. Not elaborating on your votes, and being generally elusive is a towntell. You know what i find scummy? Your use of adverbs to try and make it sound like you're more convinced than you are about me being scum.

Psych Psych Psych!

As for questioning me on providing content, I am providing content and posting actively so you have no reason to question me on that. You just don't acknowledge my content as being useful as it is directed against you.

Lol...ok, let's put it like this. ASSUME i am town. Now, in your next post, provide some HELPFUL content.

BM

[Battle Mage]

Why should I automatically ASSUME you are town?

So you can salvage some dignity in the game? Lol xD

But seriously. If i assume you're town, you do not KNOW 100% that i am scum. Therefore there is a possibility i am town. And if i am town, you're going to need to look at other people tomorrow.

Tbh man, if you dont have the possibility of me being town in the back of your mind already, i dunno if there's anything i can say to help you. That's one of the most basic townie principles in Mafia. 0.o

BM

*Oh and btw, the reason i'm so jumpy with my vote, and quick to change opinions, is because i dont want to revert back to the kind of player i was. A player not unlike yourself. Tunnel-vision to the max can be epic-fail.

[Battle Mage]

2. The plan to confirm Mae's claim is to wait till tomorrow. If Mae is the town tracker then there is no doctor to protect her. If she isn't then I suggest we look at Mae and hang her up. Given the fact that she said Kitty did nothing, if Kitty supports this then Mae's claim of tracker is confirmed. A mafia tracker is yet to be determined but should be kept in mind. Any problems?

This point is pointless. Of course Kitty is going to come out and confirm Mae's result. If she were scum she isn't gong to admit that and if she is a town power of some kind she isn't going to come out and claim that.

Erm, i'd hope that if she was a town PR, she WOULD claim. She wouldnt have to claim what. She'd just say that the result is false, and we can nail scum, and leave them in the dark.

@Sotty
Why would scum push for a no lynch with the whole: deadline is nearing argument is avaliable to them. :<.

Why do we lynch everyday? (for the most part) For links, for information. Lynches and flips of said lynches are the towns most powerful weapon in hunting scum. Obviously scum will want to limit that.

No, DTMaster is right. NL is seen as anti-town, therefore scum will play the long-game and attack people pushing an NL. Also, as DTMaster was suggesting- scum can use the prospect of NL to push through a second-rate mislynch. Scum rarely try and play for quick-wins, because a NL on Day 1 is far from catastrophic. In fact, with 1 kill per night, it actually works out in our favour.

You are setting up for a false dilemia where it's scummy to not hammer, and it would be scummy to hammer at the same time. Considering the last vote count was split up 3:3: 2:1:1:1:1 you can clearly see that the town was extremely divided on the lynch. You needed 7. Blaming BM for the no lynch when the above vote count seems moot. You have yet to attack me to premature claim and switch to self voting, or to Jason maintaining his vote on the unCCed doctor. You also didn't attack Nik for not going with a YB lynch but rather went for a Jason lynch. There are so many other examples of other attacks and such that it was clear the town was divided.

BM was a BIG reason why didn't get a lynch yesterday. The town was starting to roll towards some kind of settlement and BM came back mere hours before the deadline to derail that. Now, if both BM and Yellow are some how town, then what he did can be seen as a good thing.

Actually, i dont see how my affiliation comes in to play at all here. Care to enlighten me? As far as i see, if YB is town, i did something protown. Whether im scum or not is a completely different issue.

However, the facts are that on day one BM shouldn't have any idea what Yellow's alignment is. He was also calling Yellow scum right up until the deadline switch. Are you telling me you don't find these sequence of events scummy?

Ugh, Sotty, tell me- why the hell are we even bothering to play this game if we arent going to try and ascertain individual alignments?? I cant stress enough that changing opinions is GOOD! haha

---

Despite her incredibly scummy posting so far today, i'm still inclined to believe Maemuki's claim. We can let her slide for now. Whether scum want to risk it is a different story. The lack of hammer on YB concerns me a little-normally that would say "scumtell". But, i'm still kinda leaning town with the whole self-vote shenanigans. And i assume i bought into the vanilla claim. By not hammering i couldve really screwed us over, so let's hope for my sake that YB is in fact, town. xD

The reason there was no hammer on Yellow was because of you. You came in a decided Yellow was town too late for us to HAVE another wagon. So, normally this would be a scum tell for you, but because you were the one responsible, it's just not?

*Facepalm*

Had to read that about 6 times before i realised what you THOUGHT i was saying. But, you have completely misinterpretted me. haha

What i meant was, the lack of hammer on YB would normally make me think he was scum, because a townie wagon is generally opportunistically hammered.

Wait. You think the lack of hammer on Yellow makes her more likely to be scum?

Crap, I totally read that the wrong way. I thought you were implying that the people who could have hammered and didn't were scummy and the whole “scum tell” applied to them. Face palm indeed.

Unvote

You are weighing the self vote thing in very high regard, why is that? Outside of the mountainous mafia you spoke about, have you seen other townies voting for themselves?

*shrug* i've self-voted as town. More than once. Lol
Not sure if i've ever done it as scum. Probably, but only as a gambit.

Logically, this is appalling. If you think the prevention of a lynch yesterday was anti-town, is that still true if i prevented a mislynch? Your attack is totally inconsistent.

Well I have no idea if you did or didn't prevent a mislynch and neither should you. My issue with you is that you seem so confident that it would have been. I don't know how you could be with the info we had that day or even now.

Ah, so your attack is on the grounds that i "knew" YB was town? Why wouldnt i just hammer him though? He was at -1, and it'd be so much less conspicuous than defending him. Plus, numerically, a mislynch yesterday is far worse than a NL, given what we've seen so far.

Also, what does lynching me tell you about YB? Not alot. I'm not 100% sold on him as town, but i felt lynching him yesterday was unwise, as there are people more likely to be scum.

BM

[Battle Mage]

I think Hito could be scum.

BM

[Battle Mage]

I tracked KittyMo - she did nothing at all.

Despite her incredibly scummy posting so far today, i'm still inclined to believe Maemuki's claim. We can let her slide for now.

I'd also consider a Kitty-lynch, if anyone was wondering.

BM

Yeah, this makes no sense. Explain.

What part of those quotes do you not understand?

BM

[Battle Mage]

ugh, KittyMo is town. And very haylen-like in posting style haha.

DTM-what is your experience with roles that affect vote counts?

BM

[Battle Mage]

@BM
1. Very little. I've read about them, and you know that (I think) I might have seen one in an ongoing game. Other then that, they are very new to me but I know they exist. How about you? What is your experience on roles with powers to affect voting?

Haha, nice try.

I really dont like the way BM has been acting throughout the game, it's really fishy. I'm getting a really bad feel for it.

He keeps vote hopping, which he DIDN'T do as town in NG770

What in the hell are you talking about? 0.o
I vote-hopped like an ABSOLUTE LOON in that game. Anyone who seriously thinks i might be scum here, or Haylen might be town, should look at that game, and explain why Haylen-town would lie about her meta of me.

regardless of what he says his meta is. And then doesnt give evident to support his votes. I don't care if this has already been discussed, you wanted my opinions on the day and now you're getting them.

Again, since when did i give evidence? Your assertions are ridiculous.

He lies saying that 'lurking' is my scum meta. I don't truly have a meta, I "lurk" as you call it as scum and town, for my own reasons.

True or not, my only experience of playing with you when u were scum, you lurked like a ghost, with your -1 vote on me held for so long.

Kitty aswell is experienced enough a player to know that she shouldnt be following other people as town or scum, so regardless of whatever her alignment is, it is poor play

If Haylen is scum, Kitty is town.

Neither Haylen nor Maemuki are very likely going to show up in the next 24 hours.

Oh thanks for the vote of confidence.

Go for it. It is up to you to convince me why I should be voting for Mae. Personally, I dont think I should be and will not be voting for her.

Brill. I think that means we can treat Mae as confirmed town, unless Haylen flips scum.

Unvote, Vote: Haylen

Neto can be tested tonight, because if Mae dies, we lynch him tomorrow. Mae has 1 rather glaringly obvious choice for the track, but it's her call.

I'm happy to lynch most people at this point, but Mae and Neto arent them.

BM

I don't like this post, a few pages earlier, BM said that I was giving him a town feel. He can start saying that I must be scum for making a case against him, but that's half OMGUS and it's also a ridiculous offence to something that he should be defending himself for.

Well DUH. You werent supposed to like it. I want you DEAD remember? xD

It's not OMGUS atall. My vote was already on you. It wont be moving, in spite of Jason, who i will comment on shortly.

CSL buddied with Mae for the majority of the time he was here. This may be for reasons that he is scum or it could be for reasons outside the game that dont need discussing.

THEY ARE LOVERZZZZZZZ!

[quote-"Haylen"]
Didnt unvote when Mae claimed Tracker, this is very bad, we want all of out protown powerroles in. It's scummy to try and vote one off.[/quote]

juvenile.

BM

[Battle Mage]

I Really still don't like how BM is telling us 'Person X is town confirmed' or 'Person Y is scum' Almost like he is declaring this as fact.. only one way he could know for sure is he is scum.

Yep, but then, maybe if i was scum, i wouldnt openly declare the entire setup. Besides, does my vote history REALLY look like i know for sure who is scum? haha

It seems he really is trying to lead the game in his direction so others follow and do exactly what he wants. Anyone who questions him or disagrees MUST be scum. so scummy infact he doesn't have to make cases on them.

You're starting to get the hang of this now. I'm almost impressed!

But one thing very much saddens me. You have STILL failed to comment on anyone other than me. Despite me trying to give you an opportunity to redeem yourself, instead you have confirmed yourself as scum. So yes, once Haylen sweats a bit more, my vote will be going back on you, and it is you who will be lynched today.

Not doing what i tell you to do, especially when it's actually logical, is poor form.

BM

[Battle Mage]

THEY ARE LOVERZZZZZZZ!

This bowling ball loves you!
*throws bowling ball*

cool. Wanna help me lynch Jason? And wanna explain why in God's name you think Kitty is confirmed innocent because she didnt submit a kill last night? And how you think Tracker is a "safe-claim"?

BM

[Battle Mage]

I didn't say she was confirmed. Just less likely to be scum.

I disagree. KittyMo sending a kill seems highly unlikely imo.

And what is your case against Jason?

I don't do cases. Are you REALLY buying his tunnel-vision? And are you going to excuse the fact that he hasnt commented on anything other than me, for god knows how long?

Tracker (on scum's eyes) is a safer-claim, because it's more like a town power-role-verifier. So, it's easier to fake. Then again - how should I know? I didn't safe-claim, I claimed the truth.

I dont understand what you mean. Imo, tracker is a poor claim for scum, given they can easily be caught out...

BM

[Battle Mage]

True or not, my only experience of playing with you when u were scum, you lurked like a ghost, with your -1 vote on me held for so long.

You forget about cr3t1n's. You played with me there.

You weren't scum in that game. More lies!

You may have vote hopped in that game, but when I read it, it seemed logical, this however does not.

You're blagging this. I suggest you stop now, go back, and find a REAL suspect. You clearly have nothing on me, and making stuff up is unimpressive.

If Haylen is scum, Kitty is town.

That's a load of BS. You wrote that entirely out of the context of the quote. I called her play poor.

Why are you angry? It only matters if you are scum. Which confirms that you are. And if you ARE scum, you wouldnt have made that post about your buddy.

ANd there you are trying to get people to vote with you again. I don't like it. And anyway, I thought you didn't want to lynch Jason.

I'm perfectly happy lynching him. And it's time i grew a set, right?

Voting me wont make me sweat as you so nicely put it, I'm extremely pissed off right now.

Haha, scared more like. Because you know there's no way in hell you are gonna make it to endgame.

THEY ARE LOVERZZZZZZZ!

Shut up, you're being out of order now.

PS I miss you

Lmao, not out of order at all. But

Unvote

. Way to guilt-trip me! *wipes away tear* :'(

Vote: Jason

PRETTY SURE HE DOESNT MISS ME!

BM

[Battle Mage]

You're blagging this. I suggest you stop now, go back, and find a REAL suspect. You clearly have nothing on me, and making stuff up is unimpressive.

Im not blagging it and im not making stuff up, it's what I believe. You believe I'm blagging it, so me telling you to stop thinking that is exactly the same thing.

If you believed that before, you should trust me when i tell you that you are wrong, and explain why.

Haha, scared more like. Because you know there's no way in hell you are gonna make it to endgame.

Why would I be scared about that? I worked out long ago not to be pissed off if I dont make it to endgame, as long as town wins, I win with them And don't go on another powertrip, I know you're trying to prove you're better.

Lol i mean because you are scum, and scum need SOMEBODY to be alive at LyLo. Just sayin, it wont be you.

I am better. But this is about saving my appalling game record. So if you are town, work with me here, and let's lynch some scum, yeh? lol

BM

[Battle Mage]

thats the thing Sotty, they have nothing. I have asked many times to post a case against me and I have been told thats a scumtell on me.

appeal to emotion. You are a classic example of why cases dont work in Mafia. You post scummy stuff all the time, and the best way to assess you is by what you say NOW, rather than spending our time looking back at previous comments.

Example BM 757 was fully directed at Haylen without mention of me yet votes me saying hes pretty sure I wont miss him. I don't understand. BM seems happy to vote anyone at will at form any sort of wagon.

You obviously aren't reading. I made it quite clear yesterday (real time) that you were going to be lynched today. Voting Haylen was just an interesting thing to do in the meantime. But you can quit representing me, plz.

BM

[Battle Mage]

You're starting to get the hang of this now. I'm almost impressed!

But one thing very much saddens me.

You have STILL failed to comment on anyone other than me. Despite me trying to give you an opportunity to redeem yourself, instead you have confirmed yourself as scum.

So yes, once Haylen sweats a bit more, my vote will be going back on you, and it is you who will be lynched today.

Not doing what i tell you to do, especially when it's actually logical, is poor form.

BM

Actually, I have made mention of others I feel are scummy

Sotty, I still suspect YB heavily due to CSL actions before he replaced out, it was CSL scum meta all over.

and also Mae now. the claim seems weird to me, not the usual type of claim. Maybe she thinks it is a safer claim and not many would question it if she is scum that is...

I pulled the exact same stunt in a game recently, and got away with it. I think it could be a similar situation here. I also didnt think much of her tracking result, I felt Kittymo was out of left field

Ah sorry- missed that. Hmm, how confident are you, as a percentage, or CSL (now YB) being scum?

you are making very big promises that I will be the one lynched today..

Hey, i like to think i've got a bit of clout here. Triple it, and thats how much clout i'm willing to feign. xD

Again, this goes back to my point BM is leading this game whatever way he wants hoping we follow without him having to make a case.

No. People who lead the town, never survive for too long.

So BM I am asking... infact no I am now DEMANDING you make a case against me and show how I am indeed 'confirmed scum and will be lynched today'

I demand your case NOW.. no more pussy footing, no more side stepping as you have done, I have asked many times, as have others. I DEMAND your case on me if I am confirmed scum.

Lmao.

BM

[Battle Mage]

Wait one damn minute

, does my vote history REALLY look like i know for sure who is scum? haha

and then in the same damn post

But one thing very much saddens me. You have STILL failed to comment on anyone other than me.

Despite me trying to give you an opportunity to redeem yourself, instead you have confirmed yourself as scum

. So yes, once Haylen sweats a bit more, my vote will be going back on you, and it is you who will be lynched today.

Not doing what i tell you to do, especially when it's actually logical, is poor form.

BM

Major contradiction here is it not? Your implying you don't know who scum is.. then in the same post say I am confirmed scum?

Lol, it's not a contradiction. You obviously arent "confirmed scum", i'm just feigning confidence to make you sweat. My votes are the clearest indication of where i stand. You'll notice that i havent stayed in one place for too long. No only is that good protown play, it is also a massive towntell. Just sayin

BM

get over yourself scum

Hypocrite.

BM

[Battle Mage]

So again.. where is your case.

No appeal to emotion on my behalf,
not a scum tell on me

Simply asking you once again to post your case point for point on why I am sum.

confirmed scum as you say, and have since backtracked on.

lol, if you intend to twist everything i say, and aren't going to accept my word for anything, what exactly is the point in me talking to you? Much less, spend my time compiling a case, which will have minimal value.

I dont need to persuade anyone of anything. Anyone expecting to ride my coat-tails, will find themselves thrown in front of a train pretty soon.

BM

[Battle Mage]

fair enough Haylen, I am willing to give you some benefit of the doubt as I am having health problems myself and know that recently when having said problems the mafia games are the last thing you wanna think about.

Not saying im clearing you as a suspect, but I am willing to give you lee-way on this slightly as I am currently going through something similar.

Lol. That being the case, lynching Haylen is a mercy kill.

BM

[Battle Mage]

because when I am ill during a game, I am well known to ease myself back into posting by posting in GD and non-game places first, before moving up to real games.

wtf is that?

[Battle Mage]

I'm happy with my vote for now. Can someone remind me why we didnt lynch YB again? I forgot. lol

I will make a point of rereading Hito soon. Jason, dw, i won't be answering your questions. But don't be disheartened. When the game is over, i'll personally teach you some of the basics of Mafia.

@Haylen - Ok, but in the meantime, can you weigh in on Jason and Hito? gut opinions would be good. And a Y/N regarding whether you would vote for them today.

BM

[Battle Mage]

My gut says scum on hito but im not sure why. I'm a guy player anyway. Jason, my instincts are rather shaky about, sometimes the scale goes to yes, sometimes i goes to no. I would vote hito cause my gut it telling me too, but i would rather be given time to catch up before doing anything like that. I would be less inclined to vote for Jason.

Oh. And please dont patronise him, we know you're an experienced player.

He patronised me first.

Ok, thanks for posting.
Follow up questions:

What about Jason would make you think he is scum?
What about Jason would make you think he is town?

You dont need to look anything up. If you know your opinion on him has wavered, you must also know off the top of your head, WHY it has wavered.

Also, would you lynch Hito on gut instinct, despite having no real evidence of scumminess?

BM

[Battle Mage]

Hito, have u played with Haylen before then?

Link to a game of yours as town please?

BM

[Battle Mage]

what did YB claim?

BM

[Battle Mage]

haylen, before u call me lazy, respond to 808 please.

BM

[Battle Mage]

Ugh, thinking about why Kitty might have is makin me feel ill.

Think i might go post in Mish Mash for a bit.

Nah seriously, hope it works out ok.

BM

[Battle Mage]

Haylen

, if you continue to respond to trash, and ignore me, my vote will go on you too. Not that i think you are particularly scummy, but because i have an inferiority complex that supercedes the scumhunter within me.

BM

[Battle Mage]

Unvote

[Battle Mage]

Jason: Do you think Hito is scum with BM?

I believe they are our best chance at hitting scum right now yes.

Cop Out.

PS: This is not a breadcrumb.
I also don't have penis envy. >.>

BM

[Battle Mage]

grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr!

ive lost this post twice now. so i cant even be arsed to explain.

Unvote, Vote: Sotty

Have 'at!

BM

[Battle Mage]

grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr!

ive lost this post twice now. so i cant even be arsed to explain.

Unvote, Vote: Sotty

Have 'at!

BM

No, Explain please... I insist. I am not going to let you keep getting away with voting people without giving reasons. This is another example of why I am sure you are scum. Yet more vote hoping without explanation.

im pissed off now like you wouldnt believe. Not your fault tho, so ill humour you.

I'm voting Sotty because he has vouched for you, and if he flips town, we can take you as confirmed town. Nice huh?

I'd also be willing to lynch Haylen, on grounds she is useless, and Hito, on grounds he is far too good to be town here.

And i still cant bloody differentiate between Kitty and Mae, in terms of claims? -.-

BM

[Battle Mage]

ive lost this post twice now. so i cant even be arsed to explain.

Let's make a deal - I'll bake cookies if you explain, ok?

i see nothing in the contract about me getting said cookies.
Are you a tracker? Or the tracked?

@ Jason, top three suspects for scum

without saying BM and hito.

so what ur really asking is:

@Jason, 3rd, 4th and 5th suspects for scum?

lmfao

BM

[Battle Mage]

@Vi - What do u mean by that?

Also, thanks Kitty. I'd also be willing to string you and Vi up i think, but not Mae. Let's just run somebody up, k?

BM

[Battle Mage]

BM. You know exactly where I am right now, so dont go saying Im lurking. Im not replacing out, I never replace out. I'm gonna post content tonight. But right now Im busy. Yes busy, just like every bugger else in the world.

You should replace out, if participating is that much of an issue for you. Saying "i will post content" is cheap. You should post because you want to participate, not because you feel it benefits us to know what you are thinking. Find scum.

BM

[Battle Mage]

It means 'In This Thread' And As I have said before BM, I aint replacing out. Just finding it difficult to get into the game.

Can I be asked some direct questions please?

Also, Brutal Assassin

Hate to go all preachy here, but the value in you answering questions is absolutely minimal if you have no knowledge with which to answer them. Preferably, you would read the thread, looking for scumtells, and compile them in a post, so that you may learn something from us. Then, you can provide an opinion, such that we may endeavour to learn something from you.

@Kitty- no lol. But because you were tracked, does not mean you are confirmed town, as some people have supposed. And your reaction to being tracked, struck me as scummy.

BM

[Battle Mage]

Unvote, Vote: Vi

Scumslip in 904.

BM

[Battle Mage]

Haylen. Just...read it okay?

I am trying to post too. I get accused of lurking over and over again. And again, if it was not enough! I'm still here, though.

Mae-town is never heard. Mae-town is always accused of lurking. Mae-town always get lynched. Mae-town is attacked by everybody and their dog, and Mae-town can't complain, can she? She will get lynched anyways. Even though I would be better off talking with a wall, I'm still here. Even if just as mislynch-fodder. I'm trying my best, ain't I?

In short? I'm everything you say and more. What will I do about it? Try to do my best. Even if you're just repeating points - it's always better than nothing, is it not? Isn't a repeater better than dead silence? At least...at least...try to say something, for as irrelevant as that might've been. Even if nobody agrees. Even if you get lynched. You get lynched for your suspcions, and people will listen to you after you're dead.

Trust me on this one, okay? Just this once? Please just say anything!

tl;dr: I'm not the best of townies either. That is no excuse, though. The sick part I understand. The stress, I can understand as well. So, please say something? Anything? A list of your biggest suspcions? Something!

---

This time, I won't allow a no-lynch to happen. The fact that DTM only started making the post after Vi talked about him sets off signals on my head. Not that it's conclusive or anything. I'm just saying.

@ BM, I now see that you have voted Vi. That makes even less sense.

Also, between DTM/hito/Haylen, which one would you be willing to lynch the most? Also, why are you voting Vi right now?

@ DTM, so...YB's the scummiest to you, yes? Why are you voting for yourself then? Shouldn't you be voting for her if you're almost sure she's scum? How does this make sense? Wait, what? Would you be willing to lynch YB? Between hito and Haylen, who would you choose? (Assuming, of course, you don't choose yourself.)

I have to reread the thread, myself, to decide between Haylen/DTM/hito. I'll be sure to call you guys when I make my decision.

After that spam by DTM, i think id be happier seeing him go. Im torn on Hito. I mean, he's probably the best player here, so if he's town, lynching him today would be a significant loss. But then, i do get the "too townie" vibe from him. Just because something isnt logically sound, doesnt mean it cannot provide an accurate vibe.

I'm not sure on Haylen either. I suggest we keep her alive today, but make sure she is forcibly replaced tomorrow, or proxies her vote to me for the remainder of our lifetimes. I just get the feeling she is a very easy mislynch. Eh, im finding it hard to commit to a target in this game, because nobody else is showing any decisiveness either. I lack INSPIRATION! lol

For now, i'd like Mae and DTM to explain why they feel Vi is so obvtown atm.

Also, someone asked me a question about "aggregate town-cred" or something like that, which i didnt understand. Can whoever it was, please clarify, and i will try to answer.

BM

[Battle Mage]

I am trying to post. But everybody seems to have covered everything. "Lurking" Is not a good single reason to lynch somebody.Jason, You believed me up until somebody moaned at you for it. Why so agreeabe? You should stick to what you believe in in games, unless you have a reason not to draw attention to yourself?

Am I even going to be listened too, anyway? Seems like your just going to ignore my posts. What's the point? Im useless, Im unhelpful, I dont agree with what people say and Im incompetant.

That adds up to a town Haylen.

*slaps*

Grow up. Baaaaaaaad Alt!

Anyway, we arent lynching Mae today. Her appeal to emotion is positive. Or KittyMo, if she is the tracker. Or Jason, because Sotty has vouched for him.

BM

[Battle Mage]

Also, someone asked me a question about "aggregate town-cred" or something like that, which i didnt understand. Can whoever it was, please clarify, and i will try to answer.

That was me. Basically my question was, which people do you think are most liked by the town as a whole, and which people are least liked? A lot of today's dynamics seem to be a bit too focused on "who can we get lynched" instead of "who should be lynched".

I dont see how your question links to your hypothesis at all. How can i judge who is "liked" by the town, when A: few people are really committed to concrete opinions and B: I dont know who is town, and who is scum?

And i dont see the relevance at all, unless you'd care to enlighten me?

I did write an answer, but it was so wishy washy i deleted it.

BM

[Battle Mage]

"Town" here means everyone in the game. And I asked because I want a second opinion on who seems to be the "liked" and "disliked" players, and that seems to be the sort of thing you're on the watch for.

what gave you that impression?

BM

[Battle Mage]

A few thoughts on the Haylen claim:

1. Haylen must kill tonight. If a shotgunned kill does not appear tomorrow, Haylen should be lynched. If Haylen flips town, then we have a Mafia RB.
2. I expect that, if Haylen is a Vig, i'll be killed tonight. So, good luck all!

BM

[Battle Mage]

also

Claim: Doctor

lmao

Go figure.

BM

[Battle Mage]

another doc died N1. Netopalis i think.

BM

[Battle Mage]

So wait... BM claims doc after there is one doc already gone from game?

I don't buy that what so ever. I have played enough games run by Zach to know he does not Bastard mod so I do not believe in anyway BM's claim.

The sole reason i have claimed is that Haylen clearly intended to Vig me. Regardless of affiliation, it makes sense to claim. If you want to explain to me how claiming a stupidly unlikely role as scum is more likely than as town, please fire away!

Also,

Unvote, Vote: Haylen

Just realised we cannot really test her claim, and i cant believe we have all these power roles floating about. Yet again, i feel amicable to the vanilla claim.

That's -2 on Haylen. If Haylen is not confirmed tomorrow morning, lynch whoever said she would be.

BM

[Battle Mage]

My first gut instinct when i looked at what had happened overnight, was Haylen was scum, and had killed YB, which looks like an obvious Vig-Kill, and was going to claim that the scum had opted not to kill, in order to undermine her (which btw, i hinted at yesterday). That's what Haylen-scum SHOULD have claimed. But the way she is being attacked today, and the ridiculousness of her claim given Mafia killed YB is just absurd. A Mafia RB is a distinct possibility ofc. Needless to say, i'm not actually a Doctor btw. lol!
Just had to do my best to avoid getting killed. You can choke that upto a towntell if u like meta. If not, it's null.

The YB kill from Mafia suggests some of our PR claims must be bs. That means im thinking we probably dont have a Tracker, if Haylen is town.

Reading today's posting, i'm getting strong bussing vibes from Vi and Haylen. If 1 is scum, id bet money the other is too. But, i'd rather lynch Vi at this point, seeing as he isnt a PR. Unless i pick something up on Haylen.

I wanna check something. 1 sec.

BM

[Battle Mage]

You mean me, right?

I visited Vi cause I thought that either BM or Haylen would be the kill. Or both. I mean, the claimed Vig being left alive certainly is surprising.

Haylen, who did you (attempt) to kill?

BM?

Nothing, Vi visited no one.

DDD, what are your thoughts?

Haha. Scratch the route i was headed down. Maemuki is obvscum.

Vote: Maemuki

She quite clearly knew that Haylen did not attempt to kill YB. Which btw, means if Mae is scum, Haylen is confirmed town. If i had to pick a buddy for Mae off the top of my head, it'd be Sotty, based on his criticisms of her today. Petty enough to be bussing i think.

LYNCH LYNCH LYNCH!

BM

[Battle Mage]

I dont think the choices are that surprising. She seemed to be under the illusion that tracker was a safeclaim, therefore it's somewhat pointless to try and apply logic to her claim. Realistically, if she had claimed targets that were dead, we'd probably have lynched her, because it's predictable, and any half-wit scumbag would do that. Given the PR claims we've had in this game, vanilla is always a safe bet. Although by your reckoning, you'd assume that Mae-scum implicated Vi/Kitty scum?

A DDD lynch is always wise. But Maemuki needs to be lynched today.

BM

[Battle Mage]

Mae that is bad WIFOM. Until i showed up, nobody was trying to mislynch you. And i'm town. So i highly doubt you were left alive for that reason. Sorry, but you are going to be lynched today. Unless you wanna suggest a viable alternative?

BM

[Battle Mage]

First: yes, just because you say you're town I'll automatically believe you.

Lol, fair enough. I'm just saying, your defence rests on me being scum. So, dont convolute it- just vote for me and be done with it!

I was almost lynched on Day 1, claimed tracker, and people still suspected me. I think the scum were hoping for a Day 2 lynch.

Eh, i think i was pretty staunchly in defence of you after your claim...

Also, I want to see one thing first. I want to see if maybe I was roleblocked. I mean, trackers usually get random results if the target is vanilla or didn't send in an action, right? Well...maybe that's the way to say that I was roleblocked.

How are you going to know? If you were rbed, id expect ud be told. But if u arent, then ur useless anyway.

Alternatives, alternatives...well, I don't know. Everyone seems to think that I'm the best lynch now. Even if I did get an alternative, nobody would believe me, would they?

Don't answer that question.

That's just lazy. You know what i'm like. Give me a try.

BM

[Battle Mage]

BM, why are you so against a Haylen lynch? I don't get it. Every time she is brought up you find some BS way to talk down her lynch though some WIFOM it is getting ridiculous.

Lol, can i stop you there? I'm not "so against a Haylen lynch". But i think a Mae lynch is better. And if Mae flips scum, Haylen is confirmed town. No such result works the other way, as far as i'm aware?

We let Haylen get away with her horrible lurking and weak claim yesterday I'm not about to sit back and let the same happen today. If anything the reasons to lynch Haylen and Mae are almost the same but Haylen's lack of participation is a lot worse than Mae's. How can you be for one lynch and against the other?

I'm more about the claims, baby. Haylen-scum could have made a much better claim. If she is scum, she pretty much failed abysmally today. I dont understand why scum would kill YB, with a tracker hanging around. Haylen-vig isnt a massive threat to scum, when even after i claimed Doc, some of you still thought she'd probably kill me. Again, because i'm town, that kinda logic works from my PoV. Now, if she is town, she was more likely RBed, which makes her role completely unconfirmable anyway in the short term. So, hows this for a compromise:

If Maemuki flips town, and we only have 1 kill tonight, i promise i will join you in lynching Haylen tomorrow. It's still possible Vi is NK immune, in which case Haylen can prove herself tonight by killing someone else.

BM

[Battle Mage]

Jason would also be lynchable today. But Haylen needs to stop voting for Vi.

BM

[Battle Mage]

Hito, would you prefer a Jason, Sotty, or Maemuki wagon right now?

BM

[Battle Mage]

And if Mae flips scum, Haylen is confirmed town. No such result works the other way, as far as i'm aware?

I don't understand this.
How does Maemuki-scum automatically make Haylen confirmed Town?

Because Maemuki-scum slipped that Haylen actually is the Vig.

Anyone claiming the double-vote will be confirmed town for the rest of the game. Pinky pwomise!

BM

[Battle Mage]

DDD should join the Mae wagon, if he genuinely believes that a Mae lynch will guarantee us finding scum.

BM

[Battle Mage]

DDD should join the Mae wagon, if he genuinely believes that a Mae lynch will guarantee us finding scum.

BM

I'm already on the Mae wagon, clownshoes.

Well then, you are doing exactly as you should be! Continue to do so!

BM

[Battle Mage]

I think the doublevoter is probably BM, judging by the time at which the ??? vote was placed.

Just look at Zachs posts in Iso relating to the ??? votes. It doesnt seem that no one person is on every wagon.

*Rubs chin* Perhaps the doublevoter cannot be voting the same person twice? That would make for an effective balancing mechanism.
That, and BM has never been on the same wagon as the ??? vote....

Erm, how can i be the doublevoter, when the 2nd vote is not with mine? :S

BM

[Battle Mage]

Erm, how can i be the doublevoter, when the 2nd vote is not with mine? :S

Did you even read my post?

Yep. I didnt see 1 jot of sense in it. But if you'd like to clarify, go ahead.

BM

[Battle Mage]

Erm, how can i be the doublevoter, when the 2nd vote is not with mine? :S

Did you even read my post?

Yep. I didnt see 1 jot of sense in it. But if you'd like to clarify, go ahead.

BM

To be honest, his post was very self explanatory in what he meant, the double voter can't have both his/her votes on the one person...

Sotty, I said that before I looked at the patterns.

*facepalm*

THEN WE DON'T HAVE A DOUBLE-VOTER, DO WE?

I see you pussyfooting around, and think: Scum.

BM

[Battle Mage]

THEN WE DON'T HAVE A DOUBLE-VOTER, DO WE?

I am a single-voter. You are a double-voter. You may place your secret vote on any person except for the one on which your normal vote currently resides by sending a private message to the mod with the name of the person who you would like to vote. The reason for why you cannot place your two votes on one person is because the mod doesn't want 9p lylo.
That is what I am thinking about the double-voter, anyway.

I'll tell you what, smart-guy, you'd think if that was the case, someone would have been PMed by the Mod, telling them they can do this? Nobody has claimed this, therefore we do not have a double voter. End of story.

BM

[Battle Mage]

Well....no, you still have a double voter... most people get one vote... someone with two votes regardless of conditions of how they can use it = double voter, no?

That's BS son.

And how is it pussyfooting around? I have already stated it is not me. So if I am not the DV I am scum is what your saying by your logic? that's weird logic.

1080.

BM