Open 168- Vengeful Mafia -={Game over}=- before 844

[charter]

/confirm

[charter]

Vote Charter

Charter + Vengeful = Bad memory

I don't remember, when was it?
Also

vote Zazier

obvscum

[charter]

What about my vote? So do we have to make our votes big to be counted or what?

Also, that deadline is in like a week, which is way too soon, extension?

[charter]

So we get a deadline extension? Best be careful, last time I was in a vengeful the mod was an idiot and declared that mafia won at deadline, better check to make sure that's not the case here.

[charter]

Yes, I do mind. Seeing as you did wonder, why did you answer?
Also, why are you thinking about voting Charter?

I didn't want a nolynch to happen before someone said "wait, stop, that's a bad idea because we might lose the vengeful kill." (It depends on how the mod interprets the rules, which I suspect were written for games without deadlines.) It was definitely possible that a well-meaning townie or two would vote for a nolynch without considering that. Add on a scum or two who sees the advantage, and we have a nolynch without much information to derive from it. Giving up whatever reaction-seeking you were doing was a sacrifice I considered acceptable.

Charter asking about the deadline within the thread twice within the space of three posts looks like it could be an attempt to seem pro-town... which would inherently deserve a page 1 semi-random vote depending on the circumstances.

Once I was asking the mod, once I was asking IAUN. Maybe charter actually wants a deadline of more than a week.

IAUN, why do you ask Hero why he isn't voting me in the same post you unvote me?

[charter]

IAUN, why do you ask Hero why he isn't voting me in the same post you unvote me?

I didn't unvote you, I unvoted No Lynch. I was never voting for you.

Doh, stupid me.

unvote, vote IAUN

because I don't like how he's buddied up to Hero. Why is Hero town?

12Key, who are you most suspicious of?
Zaz, who are you most suspicious of?

[charter]

unvote, vote IAUN

because I don't like how he's buddied up to Hero. Why is Hero town?

Gut, and pointing out the danger of my No Lynch vote was good pro-town thinking. Do you disagree with my read?

Yes. I wouldn't label him as town, still neutral to me.

unvote, vote IAUN

because I don't like how he's buddied up to Hero. Why is Hero town?

Gut, and pointing out the danger of my No Lynch vote was good pro-town thinking. Do you disagree with my read?

I'm calling it as Keyblade/Zazie. What do you think, Hero?

This is fake-scumhunting.
Saying Hero/Iam now.

Vote Hero

Will have to look at what I've noted down to see if I keep this vote.

You should totally vote IAUN, then we can figure out whether he's the GF or goon.

On point (1,) I can understand Charter's reason to consider it a scumtell on IAUN, as he might be buddying up to a townie. But the fact that he said it doesn't indicate anything about my alignment.

Actually it does, it smells of IAUN being goon and you being the GF. However, this isn't a reason to lynch you instead of IAUN.

[charter]

unvote, vote 12keyblade

Someone help me give him a reason to post in this thread.

[charter]

charter, I am assuming from your last post that you did not realise Hero was already voting Keyblade. Why not?

(I just got prodded, and I feel like I should make some attempt at content, but it's kind of difficult when charter is the only other person posting.)

Nope, did not realize. I don't know how I missed that votecount in the post before though. I went back and looked at when Hero did vote him, and it was in Hero's first post, so that would be why I didn't realize.

[charter]

(I just got prodded, and I feel like I should make some attempt at content, but it's kind of difficult when charter is the only other person posting.)

This increases my unease about IAUN. I don't see what's stopping you from asking a question to someone.

[charter]

On point (1,) I can understand Charter's reason to consider it a scumtell on IAUN, as he might be buddying up to a townie. But the fact that he said it doesn't indicate anything about my alignment.

Actually it does, it smells of IAUN being goon and you being the GF. However, this isn't a reason to lynch you instead of IAUN.

Why, and why?

Well, if you're GF and IAUN is goon, then he cannot have you getting lynched day one, so I can definitely see trying to head off suspicion on you. As for why it's not a reason to lynch you first, it was IAUN who made the comment so he could just be throwing our a red herring.

It seems like Charter and Zazie both dislike IAUN for calling me town. Is that correct?

Correct.

[charter]

"it was IAUN who made the comment so he could just be throwing our a red herring."

really means

"it was IAUN who made the comment so he could just be throwing

out

a red herring."

[charter]

MOD, WHY DID THAT VOTECOUNT GET EDITED AFTER MY VOTE ON 12KEYBLADE?

In post 51 it says I am voting for 12keyblade, but I didn't vote him until AFTER THAT in post 52, what is up?

Cuz I'm damn lazy.

[charter]

If you weren't scum, you would have more to say.

I feel as if IAUN has said just as little as 12Keyblade, he just does it with more posts.
Anyhow, 12key didn't actually say anything, so he still needs to post.

Accurately pointing out a townie should, on average, help the town.

Agreed, but I think he did it based on hardly anything, so it doesn't look legitimate to me, but contrived.

[charter]

Keyblade, you've been asked several questions throughout the thread, and these questions want answers.

Also, you have one post to demonstrate that you are making any attempt whatsoever to find scum, or I'm hammering.

Heh.

unvote, vote IAUN

We have found our godfather folks. First off, this "deal" IAUN is offering is, to say the least, very scummy. He's pretty much pleading with 12Key to do something and prevent himself from being lynched. Also, it's a way of expressing fake suspicion. Second, I feel IAUN is being somewhat hypocritical, granted 12Key is without a doubt the worst offender of not scumhunting, but IAUN is my second pick with all his active lurking.

It looks like it was just buddying up to Hero from before. Clears up that.

iamausername-godfather
12Keyblade-goon

[charter]

He's pretty much pleading with 12Key to do something and prevent himself from being lynched.

Yes, because if he is town, he is screwing us by not participating. What do you think I would have done as town? Just hammered Keyblade right there?

No, if you were town, you wouldn't be offering deals. Hammering, discussing with everyone else, really anything else.

Also, it's a way of expressing fake suspicion.

Or REAL suspicion.

No, real suspicion would have been a vote. With your ultimatum, you gave him an out. All he'd have to do is make a post worth posting and then POW, suspicion gone.

Second, I feel IAUN is being somewhat hypocritical, granted 12Key is without a doubt the worst offender of not scumhunting, but IAUN is my second pick with all his active lurking.

If you agree that Keyblade has contributed much less than me, how is it hypocritical for me to say that he is not contributing?

I don't think you're contributing much either. Plus, you make a bunch of posts just to say you're here, don't really do anything in them.

Also, what scumhunting has Zazie done?

Lots. Why do you ask?

[charter]

All he'd have to do is make a post worth posting and then POW, suspicion gone.

This might be a reasonable point if it had actually happened, but you're treating completely baseless speculation as fact.

It's hardly "completely baseless". I've seen bogus deals before (and virtually all of them are) and this was one of them.

Also, what scumhunting has Zazie done?

Lots.

This is clearly not true. charter/Zazie looks like a good bet too. I'm liking my vote where it is right now.

Um, this clearly is true. I'd suggest going back and reading his posts, then reading yours and reevaluating. Your posts are filled with no lynches and posts saying you're alive. Zaz's are filled with questions and are really obviously town.

PROD on Zaz please

[charter]

I've seen bogus deals before (and virtually all of them are) and this was one of them.

You can keep saying that, but it doesn't make it true.

It's not a "bogus deal", because it wasn't a "deal" at all. It was a threat, in order to motivate Keyblade to actually contribute something to the game, and I don't see how you can argue that that's not a pro-town goal. If you'd kept your vote on Keyblade, and waited for his response to my threat, then 1) Keyblade would actually have to post something worthwhile, and 2) you could see if my suspicion would evaporate based on Keyblade posting something relevant. By pre-emptively assuming that it would, you've removed the pressure on Keyblade to actually perform. I'm betting his latest contribution would have been significantly better if he was operating under the threat of a hammer.

I'm not really interested in arguing if it was a deal or threat, it's pretty much the same thing. The way you went about doing it was not protown. I don't see why, because I unvoted him, that stops you from pressuring him. Before you planned on hammering him, but after I called you out on it, you're not even voting him.

Zaz's are filled with questions and are really obviously town.

Asking lots of questions isn't particularly helpful without any kind of follow-up. The only actual opinion Zazie has given is that Hero is scum for worrying that a No Lynch might happen, which is a completely bullshit accusation. Zazie is probably right that there wasn't any real danger of a No Lynch occuring, but Hero's worry being unnecessary doesn't in any way speak to a scum motivation on his part.

Again, false. He's given plenty of opinions. I see you've left out the one where he calls you as scum. Convenient.

[charter]

@Charter
If you think that IAUN-GF was faking his threat/deal to hammer 12KB-goon, why did you interrupt the process? Either IAUN would hammer his goon, which is fine for the town, or he wouldn't, which would reveal that he was faking it, and make it a easier for you to convince us to lynch him. Or 12KB would start playing actively and try to hunt scum (or pretend to hunt scum.)

Well, I overstated that theory a bit. Once again, IAUN is doing the scummy actions, and it speaks more to his alignment than 12key's. It seems more likely that IAUN is GF and 12Key is goon, but it's also possible that IAUN is scum (either gf or goon) and he's trying to setup 12key. As to why I interrupted this, I got really excited by IAUN's post and unvoted. Probably a better reason to have switched votes would be that the risk of IAUN being scum and 12key town outweighs just lynching 12Key. If 12Key is town, I'm REALLY not confident in his vigging skills.

Welcome Joe.

[charter]

Well, if we lynch scum today, we can get rid of any liabilities tomorrow, when it's not lylo.

[charter]

Vote iamausername all!
Hear from me again in a day.

[charter]

Have you read the game at least? Or are you just voting for the sake of voting?

[charter]

Can you request replacement or something if you're not really going to try? The game isn't even five pages, it should take like 30 minutes to read... Add another ten minutes of effort and you'll be caught up.

[charter]

"Hey everybody, I am considering hammering Keyblade, what do you think about that?"

I certainly would. If you were town, and you spedhammered like that, and the person you hammered was town, who do you think they would vig? Granted, 12Key has done nothing to show he's town and you look scummy as hell, but a hammer on page four or whatever would be meh at best.

[charter]

I dunno, it's good in theory, but I really have no clue if they would actually follow through with it. I can't support it since I'm not confident they would if we lynch one and they are town.

Request replacement for both 12Key and joe

Neither is posting much, neither has posted pretty much the whole game. Prods aren't working, they just post once or twice, then disappear again.

What date/time is deadline?

[charter]

Well done, you have successfully answered the question of why I didn't just straight up hammer Keyblade without comment (which, if you'll recall, was one of the possibilities you listed as a more likely town approach than my quote unquote deal).

You have yet to explain why "HAY EVERYONE, SHOULD I HAMMER KEYBLADE? Y/N" is more of a town approach than "Keyblade, post or perish".

Ok... The thing I thought was scummy about it was the threat/deal, not the fact that you didn't just speedhammer. I listed other options (discussing with everyone) that you wanted to lynch one of them which I felt would be more protown as well.

I think the post or perish approach leaves an incredibly easy (though apparantly not) out if 12key is scum, which makes your threat/deal absolutely meaningless, which I said originally with 'it looks like fake suspicion'. I guess in hindsight, I could have waited until 12key posted, and then made that post and tried to get it in before you, since then I could see his next post before I unvoted, but that also seems pretty risky.

I think the deadline is dumb, since we have players refusing/unable to post, and it needs to be extended, or I see this game coming down to mostly chance, which would piss me off.

[charter]

Umm, Zaz was replaced a while ago by joe. I take it Empking is 12key's replacement?

Can we get a votecount and deadline extension?

I really have no clue who is voting who, other than I'm voting username and he's scum.

If Empking is replacing 12key, I still don't have faith in a lynch one of joe/empking and try and get them to vig the other.

[charter]

Well, I still think it's username. Why don't we lynch him?

[charter]

Charter, what makes IAUN scum? Reading you in ISO, I see the following accusations (interpreted and paraphrased by me here:)
buddying
something that amounts to active lurking
post 78 looking like a GF talking to the goon

That's a pretty good paraphrase.

His reason for ruling you out so early seemed phony, and he hasn't considered you as possible scum since then. Just seems pretty fishy to me.

[charter]

HA! Four minutes scumbags...

[charter]

Ha, iamusername is voting me even though I just saved the town from losing? Yeah... If that isn't proof he's scum, I don't know what is.

[charter]

iamausername is the godfather.

[charter]

Well, that's because you're his goon. Why else haven't you voted him? Can't hammer him? hmm?

[charter]

Dumb.

I did not like the modding one bit. Changing the win conditions/pm's mid game was horrible modding. I did not like the inaccurate vote counts. Did not like the whole deadline confusion you caused us in the beginning of the game.

Hollow victory, I'd like to play with user and hero in a vengeful again, but hopefully this time I get town.

[charter]

12key was.