Mini 839 -- Mafia Invasion! (Game Over)

[Porkens]

If I could have everyone's attention, please. I would like for everyone to fill out a quick survey for future reference.

1. How many games have you played to completion on this site?
2. Do you play Mafia on other sites? If so, what is different about those sites vs. here?
3. Do you consider yourself an experienced player?
4. Which other players in this game have you played with in the last six months?
5. Do you prefer to be Town, scum, or third party? Why?
6. Who is your favorite fictional character, and why?
7. How many scum do you think are in this game?
8. Why are you filling this survey out?
9. Do you think this survey will be useful in finding scum?
10. Am I more likely to be Town or scum in creating this survey?
11. Is English your first language?

I absolutely refuse and forbid anyone else from answering these questions.

In the literally thousands of games I've played here on Mafia Scum, I've seen this strategy many times. I've even seen it on Epic Mafia, where the people rely solely on power roles to win/loose games. In my vast experience, surveys such as this serve only to draw attention away from the real conversation. Actually, they do one more thing: the person writing the survey usually gets a free pass while the others squabble...just like what happened when I played with Vi just a couple months ago in Tofu. Such a situation is perfect for a third party SK, too, because they can just ride the wake of the chaos ship; SO enjoyable.

vote; Vi

[Porkens]

@Porkens, how is this different from the questions I asked in newb 803? It was not a survey, but it where questions not with the game itself related. Like how did you discover mafia, or importance of the RVS stage. It gets a game out of RVS and I would see it as a good thing happening to a game.

Why is the survey of Vi suspicious. And the questions I asked at that time not? Is it being a survey a big thing? (I was scum, but at that time you did not suspect me at all)

Jammer, you're acting like Frank Dekkard from Blade Runner here, which could be awesome; your memory is a little selective, but you still play it cool. The fact that you'd reference a play you made, as scum, to accuse me of double standards gives me an early indication that you are, in fact, one of the 3 scum in this game.

Let me ask you something; do you think that, if you had been town in that newbie game, your survey would have been helpful in finding scum? Naturally, and grounds for conversation is valid, but this survey business is flawed, as I've pointed out before, because people don't realize it's not about the answers, and they focus on the questions.

And of course I suspected you. I played along with your game, but I knew it was you all along. My life-long relationship with the English language has left me with a remarkably accurate sense of perception about such things.

Anyways; just don't start promising re-reads and then not delivering, or I'm gunna be up yo tube.

Vote on Vi stands until she apologizes for derailing the

entire

game with this nonsense. Or until something else comes along.

P.S. I am watching something very closely, but I'll not say more on that just yet. -Pork

[Porkens]

@Porkens, how is this different from the questions I asked in newb 803? It was not a survey, but it where questions not with the game itself related. Like how did you discover mafia, or importance of the RVS stage. It gets a game out of RVS and I would see it as a good thing happening to a game.

Why is the survey of Vi suspicious. And the questions I asked at that time not? Is it being a survey a big thing? (I was scum, but at that time you did not suspect me at all)

1. You draw a similarity between your play in that Newb game with Vi's play here.
2. You say I didn't suspect you for that play in that game.
3. You were scum.
4. Wouldn't you expect that I'd learn from my mistake?

[Porkens]

p.s. we are google superstars now, check it out:

http://www.google.com/#hl=en&source=hp& ... bfff7f9103

[Porkens]

Y.C.; I railed against the survey in such a way that I answered every single question presented in it.

I'm shocked and appalled that you grabbed on to the "it's derailing the whole game" idea.

Bringing up mod killing/etc. is too ludicrous to be serious, isn't it?

unvote; vote: Y.C.

till you convince me you were just having a laugh.


Jammer: I dunno, I was just talking out of my ass. Until lylo, you deserved to win that newbie game, btw.

afatchick is in this game?! If there's a dayvig, shoot him now...

Still watchin' that thing pretty close.

[Porkens]

YC, you aren't really in any danger of being lynched in the next 24 hours IMO.

[Porkens]

@Col Cathart - 58 : nothing. just try to put some presure

since Y.C. is the only persone who refused to fill out the survey....I want to make him talk more

afatchic hasn't answered, either (even though he posted after saying he didn't have time to post). Given, he didn't refuse outright, but it would have taken 4 seconds to fill out. I think your "attack" on YC is a little flimsy here.

While I have a deep personal attachment to blind pressure votes; yours is worrisome.

Now I'm absolutely fine with the YC train haven'ting breaks, but this wagon will warrant investigation one way or the other as the dust settles.

I wouldn't be surprised if we've stumbled onto scum with this wagon, actually. So I encourage those of you voting for TMJ to switch to YC. Yes, TMJ joined an easy wagon. However, sometimes wagons are easy for a reason.

[Porkens]

When I see someone cracking under pressure, I like to push a little bit harder. I'm not disregarding, necessarily, the actions of other players. I do think, however, that YC is/was the strongest lead we had and I saw no reason to get distracted from it.

[Porkens]

Do you want both TMJ and Y.C lynched?

sure.

Do you want them both lynched ASAP?

That depends on what you mean by "P"

[Porkens]

That's funny, I would've thought that one's alignment would affect your willingness to lynch the other?

well sure, but you gatta lynch one for that to work

jammer wrote:
*I hate cops*

Wait, does anyone know what he meant by this?

no idea

[Porkens]

I find jammer suspicious for his last post. I'm not unvoting though and would be fine with a hammer.

[Porkens]

and now we policy lynch afatchic.

unvote; vote: afatchic

[Porkens]

pops can live through day one for all of me at this point. As for afatchic, his promising to answer the survey and then failing to do so is not a null-tell. Such broken promises, to me, are a great scumtell. still on for a policy lynch.

[Porkens]

Ooh, interesting few hours.

I haven't modded any games here yet and have mostly played theme games rather than normal, so I want to throw a question out here: are scum doctors allowed in normal game set-ups, or are docs in normal games always pro-town?

More later.

why did this occur to you?

[Porkens]

There are four logical possibilities:

1. pops is pro-town and is doctor
2. pops is pro-town and is not doctor
3. pops is anti-town and is doctor
4. pops is anti-town and is not doctor

It's fair to say that 2 is fairly unlikely.

I asked about the possibility of scum doctor because I wanted to know if 3 is possible in this game. So when I looked back at YC and pops's play, I could decide if it fits more with 1, 3 or 4.

For example, a scum doctor might be less concerned about coming under pressure if they felt their doc claim was unlikely to be counterclaimed (given that all else being equal, two docs are somewhat less likely than one), as compared with a scum who is purely bullshitting with his doc claim.

pops himself mentioned in his first post that he thought YC's play was more like that of a godfather. That's obviously a bit different but that kind of 'slightly fearless' play is what I was thinking of.

Anyhow.

Unvote

Whatever conclusion I come to re. 1/3/4 above, I don't want to lynch pops today in the absence of a counterclaim.

This post doesn't make much sense to me. Honestly, I kinda think that you had a scum slip of some kind with your previous post.

#3 seems like such an unlikely possibility in this situation. Why would a scum doctor claim doctor? I'd think 2 would be more likely than 3.

In any case, it's probably too late in the evening to dwell on such things, but this'll probably stick in my craw for a while.

[Porkens]

Imaginality:

I'm still greatly unsettled by your consideration of a scum doc role. I don't follow the train of thought you laid out recently. It does stick in my nose.

afatchick:

Still hasn't answered the survey. Which is splitting hairs; welcome back to the game.

unvote

pops:

what about the case on Jammer do you find "legit?" Can you summarize the points you like in a few sentences?

Vi:

Read the first page, find the teaparty. Then read those two people in isolation. I'm being vague because I'd like you to reach an unbiased opinion before I spill my guts. Just lemme know if you need more clues.

There are several people in this game that need to talk more. The questioning will begin soon. Don't wait to be on the defensive.

[Porkens]

A scummy claimed doctor is still scummy, <sigh>.

DRK, what do you think of JD?

JD, what do you think of DRK?

[Porkens]

I'll hammer to prevent a no-lynch.

Still waiting for JD

[Porkens]

Vote: James Denholm

[Porkens]

You are going to use a random number to decide who to protect?

[Porkens]

Porkens is the most scummy other player. He behaves erratically and he seems more interested in stirring than hunting for scum. His disorganizations seem like a way to make noise rather than find scum.

Please point out, specifically, what behavior you are referring to as erratic.

bodyslam: sotty7

hai!

Pops reminds me a lot of afatchic in the newbie game afatchic spoke of earlier. The only way to "test" his claim at this point is to lynch him. That isn't worth the risk of loosing our doctor. The next couple days in the game could drastically change the effects of his claim. To be clear: Yes; I am giving pops a free pass on his scummy behavior because he claimed doc.

Leaving the claimed doctor alive is the protown thing to do. Those against that idea are either hard-on to misslynch or not thinking clearly.

TMJ would be a fine lynch today. Not to take anything away from the efforts of a new player, but his contributions haven't been useful on top of wanting to lynch the claimed doc. TMJ, I believe, is going to be a lingering ?-mark as long as he's around.

therefore:

unvote, Vote TMJ

(still watching that thing)

[Porkens]

Yes; I am giving pops a free pass on his scummy behavior

for day one

because he claimed doc.

Leaving the claimed doctor alive

on day one

is the protown thing to do. Those against that idea are either hard-on to misslynch or not thinking clearly.

EBWOP

[Porkens]

The fact that you're saying this after all the discussion we've had, and only when pops' lynch looks fairly likely, makes me wonder about your motives in saying this now. Why didn't you make this point 3 RL days ago?

I wasn't thinking clearly.

[Porkens]

That seems like a pretty far-fetched interpretation.

[Porkens]

Objection.[/quote]

This has enriched my life, I sincerely thank you!.

I endorse this questioning of Porkens by Sotty7. To that end, I would like to add my own question.

The next couple days in the game could drastically change the effects of

[pops']

claim.

How so?

I endorse it too.

A scum claiming doc hopes to preserve his own life and perhaps draw out a/the real doctor. However, a tracker, watcher, or even cop can spoil the fakeclaim. Or a/the real doctor could be killed, and we'd go "wait a minute, TWO doctors?!" So to some extent, I think it's likely to bite him in the ass if he's lying.

I just don't think the risk is worth the reward. I know, it's weird coming from me. And I don't even know if I believe the claim, I'm neutral on it I think. But with other choices available, I think lynching the claimed doctor day 1 is foolhardy.

[Porkens]

I also second

Edgy

Vi about the deadline. I'm pro-deadline, myself.

[Porkens]

hmmm, I see where this suspicion wagon is headed lemme say this now:

The case on me seems to be:

erratic behavior (which hasn't been cited, only fabricated)
a pro-town suggestion (too pro-town must be scum)

in short; crap

TMJ jumping on it is just another senseless action to add to his pile.

I don't have "suspects" insomuch as I have a mental list of "good lynches"

TMJ is the best lynch so far today.
Cruciare wouldn't be terrible either so I guess there's your answer.

[Porkens]

Are you saying in your first statement that you have not done anything that could look suspicious?

Oh no, of course not. Generally speaking; any behavior

could

, as you said, look suspicious. More specifically; I'm sure some of my behavior is easily interpretable as suspicious. However, I don't think I've been "erratic."

?

That's right, I just quoted your question mark. I think Crucial's 290 is incredibly ill-conceived. That stands out more than much else.

[Porkens]

Porkens is the most scummy other player. He

behaves erratically

and he seems more interested in stirring than hunting for scum. His disorganizations seem like a way to make noise rather than find scum.

this is where "erratic" came from.



I'll talk about crucial when im more rested, but the post i mentioned seemed all over the place.

[Porkens]

Naturally, since I can't compete with you physically and you are no match for my brains.

[Porkens]

How you feeling Cruciare?

Vindicated?
Embarrassed?
Hopeful?

[Porkens]

Quotes[/i]

Although Pops didn't flip doc, the scum killed him

because

he claimed doc. Yesterday Vi encouraged a voter on the claimed doc wagon while keeping her vote off.

This is a

non sequitur

- the first sentence does not lead to the second; it actually weakens it. The second sentence is what you were saying yesterday, without the important part--

I don't really see the non sequitur. "Pops was killed for his doc claim. Vi wanted to lynch a claimed doc." Am I missing something?

Check my other games... i didn't post in any during that time, so i wasn't intentionally skipping this one.

Failing to post in any games during that time

!=

proof of intention

either way

.

As I mentioned above, I'm inclined to believe that there are no scum on TMJ's wagon.

Given how close the vote counts were at the end of day 1, and the fact that the night kill suggests the mafia believed pops' doc claim, I think that the majority of the scum must have been on the pops wagon. Or else they could have swung the lynch away from TMJ.

You guys agree here, interessante...

gen chat

Cruc's crusade against the TMJ lynch could have been scum trying to save scum. However, I think bussing would have been more likely there. I guess it's null to slightly scummy for me at the moment.

Vi is coming across a little "off" to me. I'll take another look later on at that.

Questions:

Vi:

Why do you think you sound "off" to me?

Sotty:

What do you think of DRK?

DRK:

What do you think of Sotty?

[Porkens]

VI: DRK and Sotty7 crossvote eachother on page 1, claim to have never played together before, and then busily ignore eachother for the rest of the game.

I dunno maybe it's nothin

[Porkens]

VI: DRK and Sotty7 crossvote eachother on page 1, claim to have never played together before, and then busily ignore eachother for the rest of the game.

I dunno maybe it's nothin

YO, PORKENS, I'M REALLY HAPPY FOR YOU, I'M GONNA LET YOU FINISH, BUT oh wait you're already finished

So, seriously, why are you totally underperforming in this game?

VI

Daykill: Porkens

Hah, you

wish

[Porkens]

I am seriously though, what do you think of the DRK and SOTTY (non)connection?

[Porkens]

This is the first time you've mentioned imaginality the entire game. Please tell us what he's done that you find scummy.

[Porkens]

about the number of scum left?

yeah, probably 2 more mafia or one more mafia and an sk.

but knowing the people who helped design it, I wouldn't rule out 2 scum groups, cult, or whatever.

[Porkens]

Ok. What Vi just said makes sense. I hate to think that the setup would be two misslynches to a town loss. However, I don't want to put blinders on to other possibilities.

So, operating on the assumption of two scum only, which I'm willing to do today, I think it's logical to assume that the other mafia wasn't on the lynching wagon. Again, however, not putting total blinders on to the idea of a POWERPLAY by the other scum (which in this case I would peg as Vi). For now, however, that leaves us with the idea that the scum is somewhere in this list:

1. Cruciare
2. imaginality
3. DeathRowKitty
4. afatchic

I am actually fantastically happy with this list.

Cruciare

A really really strange unvote in his #7. He says in no uncertain terms that he wants the guy lynched, but takes his vote off. Maybe leaving things open for discussion, but more likely setting up distance from a misslynch. However, his asking for a deadline extention, combined with his "goon" status makes me think he's town. Meta, I know - can't shake it.

S---

imaginality

My instinct is that he was on the TMJ wagon way too quickly to have been bussing. That might have been brilliant play though. He never did seemed to reticent to lynch the claimed doc.

SS--

DeathRowKitty

Says he doesn't endore lynching a claimed doctor day 1, even if he looks scummy. Very next post says that pops is the best lynch at the moment (his 31 and 32). Has a strange way of defending TMJ (see his 18, 21). Shrugs off all the scummy behavior. Says "leaning town, nothing but neutral."

SSSS

afatchic

He's made a lot of excuses about why he wasn't on the lynching wagon. The ammount seems a bit dissporportionate to the ammount of pressure he recieved. If he didn't think the case was legitimate, he probably would not have fought against it so verbally. BTW: did I miss the explanation of "WIWABIFWMVALBETSMADPITTMBC. IRCUWPOMOBJF,LWHIDSF. STSLANTTM."?

SSS-

Unvote

Vote: DeathRowKitty

for defending TMJ too much.




My paranoia says it's Vi.

Daykill: Vi

[Porkens]

I would be happy with a lynch of afatchic, DRK, or imaginality at this point. If afatchic picks up his prod with another "buying time" type post, I think he needs to go first.

Fair warning?

[Porkens]

Many people? Like who?

[Porkens]

Oh. Ok.

unvote; Vote Imaginality

[Porkens]

I'm biting my tongue right now.

I think the imaginality lynch would be best today.

re-read Vi and read between the lines.

[Porkens]

@Porkens: I would be careful where you go with that.

I am, this is me being careful.

Porkens is deliberately underperforming in this game, and I'm disappointed nobody else has noticed this. Misrepresenting this suspicion in 293 adds to this.

I defy you to prove that. I may be underperforming, but if so it isn't intentional (not like in that one game where I was doing it on purpose).

Now we fight with knives about 293: There was the outline of a case on me, and people were starting, typically, to say "oh yeah I see it on porkens" and the like. I wanted to nip that right in the bud. I was not being erratic, it was never pointed out where I was being erratic I DID NOT BRING THE TERM ERRATIC into the conversation. It was, in fact, the entire prmis of the things said against me.

[Porkens]

Vi: Until pop's little case, no one had said anything scummy about me, to my reccolection. The whole "erratic" post was the impetus for some pretty obvious writing on the wall (it's ok to call porkens scummy now because someone half-assedly suspected him).

Anyways, lynch imaginality.

[Porkens]

ouuu, naughty neighbors, sexy.

unvote

We still can't assume that at least one of sotty and imaginality are town, really, since they could both be scum.

but but but I'm still going with the "one scum left" idea soooo...

vote: DRK

die, scum.

I also have some pretty neet things to add about this cop business...but I think I'll keep them to myself till tomorrow.

[Porkens]

unvote

Vote: Col. Cathart

Waiting for the extra insight you promised.

[Porkens]

Vote: Col. C

Never did get around to those thoughts. Rode that all the way to the bank.

[Porkens]

charter is effectively confirmed Town

how?

[Porkens]

It's self-explanatory, isn't it?

[Porkens]

I am going to start out with a

Vote Vi

because I think there is more support for a Vi wagon than Cruciare and also because I thought post 541 was incredibly fishy. More from me later.

oh charter, at least your honest.

[Porkens]

Sorry guys, requirements at work and a nasty bout of food poisoning have kept me away.

unvote

I'm absolutely certain that one of the neighbors is scum:
Sotty
Imaginality
Sigma
Cruciare

The cop claim is believable, so that leaves:
charter
Vi

I'll be honest; I don't really see the case on Vi, here.

[Porkens]

oh, and my avater was found on google
and I haven't been random.

[Porkens]

I don't have a problem with his public role speculation.

I've self-hammered as town PR because I was pissy.

but, ok, lets just get this on the road.

vote: Vi

[Porkens]

so bad at mafia.

[Porkens]

So, assuming Vi was town; which neighbor are we lynching tomorrow?

[Porkens]

You really think Vi is scum?

[Porkens]

Vi, which neighbor woudl you want lynched and why?

[Porkens]

<sigh> my bad, I thought you were still voting for

me

[Porkens]

Stop playing with my emotions.

Seriously though, Sotty? I would think Imaginality. <hands up>

[Porkens]

She was asking for it.

[Porkens]

I am also a vanilla town

[Porkens]

bump?

[Porkens]

No-lynch is for suckers.

Vote: Imaginality

[Porkens]

What do

you

think about charter?

[Porkens]

The last time you mentioned Charter, you said he was Null for you. What changed?

[Porkens]

No lynch talk is making me sick. but fine.

unvote; vote:

pussy out

no lynch

[Porkens]

Oh right, charter. no-lynching made me so sick I forgot about the question.

He's low on my list of suspects. Were I in a 3-man endgame with him right now, I'd vote for the other guy.

[Porkens]

And then you shot him.

Vote: Charter

[Porkens]

Well well well. I'm not trying to outguess the mod. I'm trying HARD not to do that.

But, ok, fine, good. I'll believe the neighbors have adequately gotten reads on each other. Done and done.

Charter gives me the itch.

[Porkens]

@Porkens: When you joined the pussy out wagon, were you aware that you had the highest chance of dying that night?

"The highest chance of dying" is waaaay to strong a term to use here. I couldn't POSSIBLY know that. And neither could you, come right to it. Would it have been a good move? Probably.

[Porkens]

I want to lynch Charter or Imaginality. I highly doubt that much, if anything, was changed in any of the night chats.

One thing that's screwing me up is that the term "town neighbors" was used in the mods flavor text

[Porkens]

We just need to lynch.

unvote, Vote Imaginality

Votes.

[Porkens]

Sorry guys, I let the boredom and frustration get the best of me...again.